Sanity Framework

[Karna5]

Hi, Sthan I installed the DEBUG version and then went in game out doors and used MCM Beastess option to clear all blockers to start clean. And then I used MCM to trigger a tentacle attack and got five tentacles which did not despawn afterward (and the pregnancy and dark gifts didn't trigger either).

 

I waited around half a minute then tried punching the tentacles, and they were still invincible.

 

However, when I shut the game down and looked for the logs, I couldn't find them anywhere.

 

I searched all the directorys in:

c:\Users

c:\Users\Documents

c:\Users\Documents\Fallout4 (and all its subdirectories)

[Fallout 4 game directory]

[Fallout 4 game directory\Data]

And I searched everywhere I could think of and did not find a file called SanityFramework0.log.

 

Was I supposed to do anything special for the logging to manifest? I can reinstall the DEBUG version if I did anything incorrectly or if you'd like me to try anything Thanks

[Sthan Dust]

10 minutes ago, Karna5 said:

Hi, Sthan I installed the DEBUG version and then went in game out doors and used MCM Beastess option to clear all blockers to start clean. And then I used MCM to trigger a tentacle attack and got five tentacles which did not despawn afterward (and the pregnancy and dark gifts didn't trigger either).

 

I waited around half a minute then tried punching the tentacles, and they were still invincible.

 

However, when I shut the game down and looked for the logs, I couldn't find them anywhere.

 

I searched all the directorys in:

c:\Users

c:\Users\Documents

c:\Users\Documents\Fallout4 (and all its subdirectories)

[Fallout 4 game directory]

[Fallout 4 game directory\Data]

And I searched everywhere I could think of and did not find a file called SanityFramework0.log.

 

Was I supposed to do anything special for the logging to manifest? I can reinstall the DEBUG version if I did anything incorrectly or if you'd like me to try anything Thanks

It should be under Documents\My Games\Fallout 4\Logs\Script\User  It's in the same directory of where your save games are.

Yes, for some reason your Animation is never ending.

 

Also, make sure you zone far away from where you did this the last time.  Evidently AAF is trying to do some clean up and that may be interfering.  It tries to find all actors that might still be in the busy state.  I just noticed this in my debug logs.

[Karna5]

8 minutes ago, Sthan Dust said:

It should be under Documents\My Games\Fallout 4\Logs\Script\User  It's in the same directory of where your save games are.

Yes, for some reason your Animation is never ending.

 

Also, make sure you zone far away from where you did this the last time.  Evidently AAF is trying to do some clean up and that may be interfering.  It tries to find all actors that might still be in the busy state.  I just noticed this in my debug logs.

I quintiple checked including in that directory, but the file just isn't there. Is there a flag or configuration file I'm supposed to manipulate for the logging to generate?

 

And yes I did a "coc sanctuaryext" to leave where my earlier tests were (which were in Maxwell House theme park and later in a test cell in Far Harbor to make sure I tested away from previous tests).

 

If you need me to make a change on how i tested I'll be sure to pick a different cell for the next attack as well Thanks!

[Sthan Dust]

3 minutes ago, Karna5 said:

I quintiple checked including in that directory, but the file just isn't there. Is there a flag or configuration file I'm supposed to manipulate for the logging to generate?

 

And yes I did a "coc sanctuaryext" to leave where my earlier tests were (which were in Maxwell House theme park and later in a test cell in Far Harbor to make sure I tested away from previous tests).

 

If you need me to make a change on how i tested I'll be sure to pick a different cell for the next attack as well Thanks!

Oh yes! Sorry I thought you had debugging enable for the game

 

 

Navigate to C:\Users\YOURUSERIDHERE\Documents\My Games\Fallout4\Fallout4.ini
Open it, and copy and paste the following to the bottom of the textfile

 

[Papyrus]
fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=500.0
bEnableLogging=1
bEnableTrace=1
bLoadDebugInformation=1

[Sthan Dust]

5 hours ago, Karna5 said:

Yes, even with the previous version the tentacles were clearing after the attack scenes. Them not clearing is new to the latest version

I need to ask a silly question. Did you install or update any mods between this version and last?  I'm going insane (ironically ??) trying to find this issue.

 

I looked at my source code updates, and I hadn't touched anything related to the actual ending anims.  So I'm just perplexed as to what is causing this.

I've only had one other person mention unjoining, but that went away when I moved to the OnSceneEnd and stopped disabling the tentacles.

 

The new version will kill them via a potion over 15 seconds after the anim ends.

[Karna5]

1 minute ago, Sthan Dust said:

I need to ask a silly question. Did you install or update any mods between this version and last?  I'm going insane (ironically ??) trying to find this issue.

 

Hi, Sthan. Since your version *.08 came out (which was still clearing tentacles after attacks) until now the only mod I updated was Nuka Ride. However, I did not activate Nuka Ride yet this playthrough (I have not spoken to the robot which begins the first quest).

 

As for the DEBUG version, I just reinstalled it with logging enabled in the fallout4.ini file, logged into the game, made sure the blockers were cleared and then did "coc rjanglertest" to get to a clean cell.

 

I triggered a tentacle attack through MCM which spawned a single tentacle. Afterward I waited around half a minute for the tentacle to vanish. When it stayed I tested punching and kicking it several times to confirm it was still in its invulnerable state.

 

Then I exited the game and checked the SanityFramework0.log file which contained only the following five lines:

 

[03/07/2023 - 05:55:20PM] SanityFramework log opened (PC-64)
[03/07/2023 - 05:55:20PM] [SDF] Loading Family Planning
[03/07/2023 - 05:55:20PM] [SDF] Player is not pregnant.
[03/07/2023 - 05:55:20PM] [SDF] Loading Tentacle Mod
[03/07/2023 - 05:57:13PM] [SDF] Starting Ambush.

 

Did I do anything incorrectly? Should there have been more in the logs? I can repeat the test with any changes if you wish. Thanks!

[Sthan Dust]

16 minutes ago, Karna5 said:

 

Hi, Sthan. Since your version *.08 came out (which was still clearing tentacles after attacks) until now the only mod I updated was Nuka Ride. However, I did not activate Nuka Ride yet this playthrough (I have not spoken to the robot which begins the first quest).

 

As for the DEBUG version, I just reinstalled it with logging enabled in the fallout4.ini file, logged into the game, made sure the blockers were cleared and then did "coc rjanglertest" to get to a clean cell.

 

I triggered a tentacle attack through MCM which spawned a single tentacle. Afterward I waited around half a minute for the tentacle to vanish. When it stayed I tested punching and kicking it several times to confirm it was still in its invulnerable state.

 

Then I exited the game and checked the SanityFramework0.log file which contained only the following five lines:

 

[03/07/2023 - 05:55:20PM] SanityFramework log opened (PC-64)
[03/07/2023 - 05:55:20PM] [SDF] Loading Family Planning
[03/07/2023 - 05:55:20PM] [SDF] Player is not pregnant.
[03/07/2023 - 05:55:20PM] [SDF] Loading Tentacle Mod
[03/07/2023 - 05:57:13PM] [SDF] Starting Ambush.

 

Did I do anything incorrectly? Should there have been more in the logs? I can repeat the test with any changes if you wish. Thanks!

Ah ha!

Yep! It's NukaRide.  Something is off with the AAF XMLs.  All tentacle attacks were broken after that.  I had to uninstall and roll back to fix it.

 

You might want to uninstall NukaRide and see if that fixes it.   It is starting the sex scene, but it is not ending the scene properly.  NukaRide is probably interfering with the same event, possibly ending prematurely. I had so many issues with NukaRide, I just haven't had time to troubleshoot.

 

[Edit: the only way I figured this out was I have Sex Em Up installed, and everytime I tried to initiate a flirt, it would say that an animation is already running.]

 

You'll have to uninstall NukaRide and restore to a save before you installed NukaRide.    

I had to do the very same.  I intend to start a new save game just for that, because its meant to be kind of standalone from what the mod author said as its an Alt Start, and it is not compatible with the tentacle attacks. 

 

The other thing you can do is restore back to 2.08 and see if it works then.  Just uninstall 2.09 and reinstall 2.08 and see if you have the same problem.

❤️

Thank you so much for your help!

 

 

SanityFramework - 2.08.zip

Edited March 7, 2023 by Sthan Dust

[Karna5]

2 minutes ago, Sthan Dust said:

Ah ha!

Yep! It's NukaRide.  Something is off with the AAF XMLs.  All tentacle attacks were broken after that.  I had to uninstall and roll back to fix it.

 

You might want to uninstall NukaRide and see if that fixes it.   It is starting the sex scene, but it is not ending the scene properly.  NukaRide is probably interfering with the same event, possibly ending prematurely. I had so many issues with NukaRide, I just haven't had time to troubleshoot.

 

You'll have to uninstall NukaRide and restore to a save before you installed NukaRide.    

I had to do the very same.  I intend to start a new save game just for that, because its meant to be kind of standalone from what the mod author said as its an Alt Start, and it is not compatible with the tentacle attacks. 

 

The other thing you can do is restore back to 2.08 and see if it works then.  Just uninstall 2.09 and reinstall 2.08 and see if you have the same problem.

❤️

Thank you so much for your help!

 

 

SanityFramework - 2.08.zip 1.11 MB · 0 downloads

 

I must say it's a relief to actually have an explanation for what's happening, Sthan! As for going back to a save before I had Nuka Ride installed *laughs* I'd have to go back a couple of years or more, haha. Nuka Ride and Sanity Framework are among the mods I have installed for at least the last 20 play throughs

 

However, reverting to version 2.08 is super easy I'll do that right now and report the results Thanks!

 

[Sthan Dust]

4 minutes ago, Karna5 said:

 

I must say it's a relief to actually have an explanation for what's happening, Sthan! As for going back to a save before I had Nuka Ride installed *laughs* I'd have to go back a couple of years or more, haha. Nuka Ride and Sanity Framework are among the mods I have installed for at least the last 20 play throughs

 

However, reverting to version 2.08 is super easy I'll do that right now and report the results Thanks!

 

I think it was the most recent release of Nuka Ride. I had not played it. But with the new animations something broke everything on my end.

The rest of the sanity items work. Its just the animations that are not working for me. I can play the NukaRide story, but none of the sex scenes ever start.

 

[Karna5]

Hi, Sthan! You called it right! Even version 2.08 of your mod doesn't work anymore, so as you say, it must be Nuka Ride

 

I'm going to try incrementally reverting the last three Nuka Ride versions to see if I can identify when it began (there were three revisions in the last week if I recall correctly.)

 

I'm also going to restore Sanity Framework to the "2.09 DEBUG TEST" version because it has the MCM stetting to clear blockers.

 

It'll take me a while to complete the tests, but I'll start right now. Thanks again!

[Sthan Dust]

Just now, Karna5 said:

Hi, Sthan! You called it right! Even version 2.08 of your mod doesn't work anymore, so as you say, it must be Nuka Ride

 

I'm going to try incrementally reverting the last three Nuka Ride versions to see if I can identify when it began (there were three revisions in the last week if I recall correctly.)

 

I'm also going to restore Sanity Framework to the "2.09 DEBUG TEST" version because it has the MCM stetting to clear blockers.

 

It'll take me a while to complete the tests, but I'll start right now. Thanks again!

No rush!  I so appreciate you helping today!  I was going mental trying to find out what I'd done improperly.

???

[vaultbait]

34 minutes ago, Sthan Dust said:

The new version will kill them via a potion over 15 seconds after the anim ends.

 

Probably depends on how your scripts are written as to how convenient it is, but the approach I ended up using is to start a timer and then clean up tentacles after the character is far enough away, rescheduling cleanup until the distance condition is met. Could even throw in a line-of-sight check just to make sure they only disappear when the player isn't looking.

[Sthan Dust]

14 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

Probably depends on how your scripts are written as to how convenient it is, but the approach I ended up using is to start a timer and then clean up tentacles after the character is far enough away, rescheduling cleanup until the distance condition is met. Could even throw in a line-of-sight check just to make sure they only disappear when the player isn't looking.

This is a great idea.  It seems to be working correctly now. The issue was really ensuring that AAF released the tentacle from the Anim

[Karna5]

Hi, Sthan. I was able to find versions 6.03 and 6.02 of Nuka Ride in my recycle bin and tested both of those (current version of Nuka Ride is 6.04). All of them had the same problem. So I'm guessing one would have to go back to a 5+ version which I do not have for testing.

 

I realize you've already come up with a solution, but I thought you might want to know the results of the tests anyway. Thanks again!

[Sthan Dust]

2 hours ago, Karna5 said:

Hi, Sthan. I was able to find versions 6.03 and 6.02 of Nuka Ride in my recycle bin and tested both of those (current version of Nuka Ride is 6.04). All of them had the same problem. So I'm guessing one would have to go back to a 5+ version which I do not have for testing.

 

I realize you've already come up with a solution, but I thought you might want to know the results of the tests anyway. Thanks again!

Unfortunately I've not come up with a solution.  I agree with you that it was well before the latest update.  But because I had only just installed  NukaRide the other day, I quickly uninstalled when I noticed the issues.  The mod author JB was awesome in response.  I just don't have time to troubleshoot.

 

Also a new UAP update may have caused other issues.  I would think that before the most recent version everything was working, and that something broke with the new updates.  I'll need to update all my anims to match NukeRide, but I really need to focus on the actual Sanity aspects more than the tentacles.  Tentacles was a welcome distraction.  But I'm starting to deviate from what I meant to accomplish with the framework.  AAF is very persnickety.  It breaks too easy. The way it is explained is that it is really the users problem if things fail.  I get that, because we all do this for free.  But I feel a certain sense of responsibility if my mod fails.  Others just point to guides and don't work with the users.  Users are the reason we do this.  We should be more accommodating as I have tried to be. I will leave it at that.

 

I also need to spend time on Autonomy Enhanced, because I promised I'd be a good steward of that mod for my friend @Invictusblade  

 

I'll continue to try and address the issues, but my next release will be more Sanity based.

 

I very much appreciate your help!  But if AAF breaks this easily, I need to abandon that aspect of the mod, or it will sacrifice the point of what I am trying to do.

 

❤️

 

[Sthan Dust]

Evening Lovelies!

 

So I will be releasing a new update to the mod tomorrow.  I've added tentacle milking to the mod, as @Snapdragon_ added this amazing feature to Animated Tentacles.  Milking Anims will add a potential food object for the player.  With buffs.  (requires Wasteland Dairy by @Invictusblade)  

 

I worked quite a bit with @Karna5 trying to trouble shoot issues with anims, and I've concluded that NukaRide is not compatible with my mod right now.  I know its an amazing mod, but AAF is too persnickety to troubleshoot this issue.  So if you are using the new version of NukaRide, it doesn't presently work with my anims.  The rest of sanity framework is fine, tentacles are not working with it.  I'm so sorry.  I just don't have the time to fix this.  

 

I will publish a new version this week.  I have new books for you to find, and new paths to insanity.

 

I thank you all so much for bearing with me. As always, I will not give up on this game.  I have so many more stories to share.  

❤️

 

[Karna5]

1 hour ago, Sthan Dust said:

Also a new UAP update may have caused other issues.

I was wondering if the patches could contribute to the issue, but the fact you use UAP and I use Indarello make me think the patches are not to blame because you and I don't use the same patches

 

I also agree that you have spent a huge amount of time on this tentacle/NukaRide issue and that it really would be a good idea for you to shift gears to do the portions you most want to work on, especially since you've been aching to do those new quest/story based things for a long time.

 

The tentacles still spawn. If people don't use Nuka Ride they work 100%. If they do use Nuka Ride, they still spawn but simply can't get pregnant or dark gifts which is not a show stopper considering how much else your mod has now and will have

 

If I had known about the incompatibility I would not have updated Nuka Ride yet. But I did *laughs* and you've been wonderful, Sthan, trying to figure out and solve the issue.

 

Don't worry about this. Everything will be okay. Just focus on having fun with your mod!

 

I love having an insane character with Sanity Framework, haha, and I'm delighted you've got more insanity related ideas in the works

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Karna5

[Sthan Dust]

9 minutes ago, Karna5 said:

I was wondering if the patches could contribute to the issue, but the fact you use UAP and I use Indarello make me think the patches are not to blame because you and I don't use the same paches

 

I also agree that you have spent a huge amount of time on this tentacle/NukaRide issue and that it really would be a good idea for you to shift gears to do the portions you most want to work on, especially since you've been aching to do those new quest/story based things for a long time.

 

The tentacles still spawn. If people don't use Nuka Ride they work 100%. If they do use Nuka Ride, they still spawn but simply can't get pregnant or dark gifts which is not a show stopper considering how much else your mod has now and will have

 

If I had known about the incompatibility I would not have updated Nuka Ride yet. But I did *laughs* and you've been wonderful, Sthan, trying to figure out and solve the issue.

 

Don't worry about this. Everything will be okay. Just focus on having fun with your mod!

 

I love having an insane character with Sanity Framework, haha, and I'm delighted you've got more insanity related ideas in the works

I do have so many other updates.  I wanted to work the Lovecraftian aspects of tentacles into the framework.  It felt so Cthulhu to me.  Very Shadow over Innsmouth and far harbour. 

 

But new things are coming with the next update.  I allowed the tentacles to distract from the real work.  Making you all go insane.  Thank you so much for your help today. I learnt I need to learn a bunch more about this.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you ???

 

❤️

What does it mean to be sane, really?  

Edited March 8, 2023 by Sthan Dust

[Karna5]

3 minutes ago, Sthan Dust said:

What does it mean to be sane, really?

I realize that's a rhetorical question, but I think about that a LOT. Personally I think it's the ability to find happiness without hope, satisfaction without joy, understanding without being overwhelmed by judgement, and maybe even the ability to fight and struggle without hate. And maybe the hardest aspect of sanity to achieve is the ability to forgive yourself.

 

But what do I know Nothing, really. Someday, maybe

[Sthan Dust]

3 minutes ago, Karna5 said:

I realize that's a rhetorical question, but I think about that a LOT. Personally I think it's the ability to find happiness without hope, satisfaction without joy, understanding without being overwhelmed by judgement, and maybe even the ability to fight and struggle without hate. And maybe the hardest aspect of sanity to achieve is the ability to forgive yourself.

 

But what do I know Nothing, really. Someday, maybe

I live this.  This is why I am so excited for you all to meet the Splinters. There are 8 of them.  Including YOU.  

 

Perhaps we all use this game to cope with the things we don't want to cope with.  I know I do. I spend too much time in this game.  Its my safe place, which is weird, because it is so dreadfully hopeless.  But we make it.

 

I am exceedingly overwhelmed and upset by how I am judged, when I do not judge anyone at all.   And you just hit on the very reason I started this mod.

 

Down the rabbit hole we go together.  But you don't go down alone.  I'm always there.

 

That's the point.  ❤️

 

You are never alone here.  I will always be there. 

[JB.]

 

I'm sorry this drove you crazy, Sthan!

 

My mod listens for OnSceneEnd events, but only does so when scenes have "NukaRide" strings.
 

I have not been able to replicate your problem, regarding AAF not starting, but this mod works fine for me. I have Nuka Ride, Sanity Framework, the tentacles mod and the latest version of UAP installed. I have forced tentacle appearances through the MCM and watched them disappear after the attack. 

 

I tested it with UAP and without UAP. 

 

I'll see if I can do something on my end, both to replicate the problem and to find a way around it. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by JB.

[vaultbait]

12 hours ago, Sthan Dust said:

But if AAF breaks this easily, I need to abandon that aspect of the mod

 

AAF itself is not especially fragile, but a lot of people are using it off-label in ways which it was not designed to accommodate. Specifically, it's not engineered for the way mod authors have been patching other authors' animation data, nor for mods embedding partial data sets which directly reference data from other mods. It expects all supplied animation data to make a coherent whole, but when different people are updating interrelated pieces without coordinating with each other you can quickly end up with an incoherent mess which AAF has no hope of parsing successfully.

[Axary]

Nuka Ride does not use third-party .XML files, all animations used in NR are described in its own XML files. That is, NR works directly with animation packs .esp.
This means that NR has HARD requirements for VERSIONS of animation packages.
If you can't run AAF after installing NR, then you don't have the required animation packs or you have outdated versions of animation packs.
The problem is because AAF sees the link to the "idleForm" in the NR xml files, but cannot find that "idleForm" in the "animation_pack.esp"

 

So, there is no problem with your mod, there is no problem with NR, there is no problem with compatibility.
The problem was caused by not meeting the HARD requirements of the NR. It's not enough just to have all the required animation packs, you must have the RIGHT VERSIONS of them.

 

For example:
If you have the "Savage Cabbage" pack not 1.2.9(December 31, 2022), but previous 1.2.8(June 16, 2022).
Then SavageCabbage_Animations.esp does not have the following idleForms: 30D28, 30D29, 30D2E, 30D2F, 30D30, 30D31.

But these idleForms are called by the NR XML files.
And of course this mismatch creates a problem.

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Axary

[vaultbait]

2 hours ago, Axary said:

Nuka Ride does not use third-party .XML files, all animations used in NR are described in its own XML files. That is, NR works directly with animation packs .esp.
This means that NR has HARD requirements for VERSIONS of animation packages.
If you can't run AAF after installing NR, then you don't have the required animation packs or you have outdated versions of animation packs.
The problem is because AAF sees the link to the "idleForm" in the NR xml files, but cannot find that "idleForm" in the "animation_pack.esp"

 

So, there is no problem with your mod, there is no problem with NR, there is no problem with compatibility.
The problem was caused by not meeting the HARD requirements of the NR. It's not enough just to have all the required animation packs, you must have the RIGHT VERSIONS of them.

 

For example:
If you have the "Savage Cabbage" pack not 1.2.9(December 31, 2022), but previous 1.2.8(June 16, 2022).
Then SavageCabbage_Animations.esp does not have the following idleForms: 30D28, 30D29, 30D2E, 30D2F, 30D30, 30D31.

But these idleForms are called by the NR XML files.
And of course this mismatch creates a problem.

 

Agreed, having animation data in one mod which refers to specific animations in another mod rather than asking AAF to pick an appropriate animation based on desired parameters (races, genders, tags, location, etc) leads to interoperability problems, because you'll quickly find yourself in a situation where two mods you want to use disagree on which versions of a particular animation pack they'll work with. AAF was meant to abstract away the caller's dependency on specific animations in order to make them more interchangeable, and directly referring to idleforms from another mod is precisely the "old way" that AAF was designed to avoid.

[Axary]

@vaultbait

I made a unique staging system for NR, where each animation plays stages from start to finish, and at the end of the last stage the AAF finishes its work. That is, in NR the animations work fully automatic as in Skyrim.
To specify a unique duration time for each animation, I had to use position trees.

 

You are right that AAF can avoid some errors, but not all.
AAF can't avoid errors in positionTreeData.xml because it has recursion with PositionData.xml: PositionData.xml refers to positionTreeData.xml, and positionTreeData.xml refers to PositionData.xml.

 

If you are in contact with the AAF developers, could you please pass on one request to them.

I would really like them to extend the functionality of ***_AnimationGroupData.xml a bit, so that the last animation in the group can have a parameter that will terminate the work of AAF. Now this parameter is only available in positionTreeData.xml and looks like isExit="true"

Then I would redo the NR XML files, and get rid of positionTreeData.xml. This would completely remove the HARD requirements for VERSIONS of the animation packs.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Axary