Unfair thread locking

[Guest]

> I am fucking sick and tired that trolls won again. My thread was locked because of few imbeciles whose purpose was to make it locked by posting insults and negativism while, in the same time those morons posting sick mods that has nothing to do with common sense, but mental disturbance. Locking my thread instead of disciplining those creature isn't fair. I am taking a long break from LL and not sure if I am coming back.

 

[27X]

You realize you're doing the exact same thing the person that made you the maddest did, right? right.

 

Secondly, thread locking is temporary until cooler heads prevail unless otherwise stated.

[yukitokuroya]

5 minutes ago, 27X said:

You realize you're doing the exact same thing the person that made you the maddest did, right? right.

 

Secondly, thread locking is temporary until cooler heads prevail unless otherwise stated.

There is nothing wrong with complaining about unfair moderation, which is frequent here in LL.

[johnpage]

Hello Evaloves4 I have no idea what you are talking about regarding your statement but i feel your pain regarding trolls and LL seeming ethics and like you i have felt like leaving our community often but i would just like to remind you that there are a lot of good people here who will be sad to see you go i dont know if you produce mods but if you do even more so i think there are two kinds of people on this site those that enjoy the freedom to roam the road of their inner desire in pursuit of happieness and those that come here to piss them off, i find its best just to ignore them they have not nuch of a life and feel they must spice their life up by messing others up, i come here often to view mods download and enjoy the community with like minded people the bad ones i shove behind a wall and ignore them and i do belive that includes some in admin lol, hey i'm rambling i am just lending support is all much love to you and dont give up but you are free to make your choice all best.

[kmaaier]

There can also be decide to ban the trolls. That could keep the community clean and gives a good sample of what could happen if people  are disrespectful to others.

[donttouchmethere]

What has that to do with mods at all? ?

[Grey Cloud]

5 hours ago, kmaaier said:

There can also be decide to ban the trolls.

First they came for the trolls. Then they came for the ogres. Then they came for the goblins.

 

FWIW I agree with the comments about not locking threads at the drop of a hat and instead dealing with those causing the problem. I would add that reasons should be given as to why posts were removed rather than just removing them without a word such as has happened to me on more than one occasion.

[Psalam]

23 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

First they came for the trolls. Then they came for the ogres. Then they came for the goblins.

 

FWIW I agree with the comments about not locking threads at the drop of a hat and instead dealing with those causing the problem. I would add that reasons should be given as to why posts were removed rather than just removing them without a word such as has happened to me on more than one occasion.

Speaking only for myself - I normally try warning people off "questionable" issues before actually hiding posts or locking Threads. I wish that I could pretend that this works most of the time but, since it works some of the time, I intend to keep trying it. However, some things are simple Rules violations. There are no questions. They require no interpretation. These posts are hidden and, generally, with absolutely no mention of that fact. To do so would simply be a way of drawing attention to how you go about getting under the skin of a Moderator.

 

I hope that those of us who have had our posts hidden (I include myself because I most certainly have had posts hidden and Threads locked) take the opportunity to look back on what might have led a Moderator to find the post "at issue." From my perspective posts are 1) supposed to be relevant to the Thread. It might be a wonderful song but it doesn't belong on the Devious Devices Support Thread. 2) they should be educational (or a request for education) or funny. This latter can be an issue because of the whole "don't be a jerk" rule. I advise using that one carefully. And 3) they should be inoffensive. Sure, you can tell someone, "You fucking idiot! It can't be done that way! Only a moron would think it could be done that way!" But, I expect that the post will be hidden and you might get a well-deserved Warning. Instead you could tell someone, "I've been doing this Technical Support for years and never seen such a suggestion before. Can you please tell me where you got this idea from?" IIRC there is more about this on my Navigating LL Blog (which was written BEFORE I became a Moderator).

[woodsman30]

37 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I agree with the comments about not locking threads at the drop of a hat and instead dealing with those causing the problem.

I have to agree here there are known instigators here who post nothing but negative comments or derail a thread just to stir shit up?. JMO

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Speaking only for myself - I normally try warning people off "questionable" issues before actually hiding posts or locking Threads. I wish that I could pretend that this works most of the time but, since it works some of the time, I intend to keep trying it. However, some things are simple Rules violations. There are no questions. They require no interpretation. These posts are hidden and, generally, with absolutely no mention of that fact. To do so would simply be a way of drawing attention to how you go about getting under the skin of a Moderator.

 

I hope that those of us who have had our posts hidden (I include myself because I most certainly have had posts hidden and Threads locked) take the opportunity to look back on what might have led a Moderator to find the post "at issue." From my perspective posts are 1) supposed to be relevant to the Thread. It might be a wonderful song but it doesn't belong on the Devious Devices Support Thread. 2) they should be educational (or a request for education) or funny. This latter can be an issue because of the whole "don't be a jerk" rule. I advise using that one carefully. And 3) they should be inoffensive. Sure, you can tell someone, "You fucking idiot! It can't be done that way! Only a moron would think it could be done that way!" But, I expect that the post will be hidden and you might get a well-deserved Warning. Instead you could tell someone, "I've been doing this Technical Support for years and never seen such a suggestion before. Can you please tell me where you got this idea from?" IIRC there is more about this on my Navigating LL Blog (which was written BEFORE I became a Moderator).

Not only you, but in general, there are times when it is quite obvious what a person is doing, and THAT person should be shut down and perhaps suspended from the site. @Evaloves4 is one of the most out going and non-threatening people on this site. She comes up with fun, or thought provoking topics where the general LL community can chime in with their thoughts, and not be beaten down. At least not until the trolls drop in and begin their endless torrents. 

 

I rmember on her girls thread, where most commented with a level of consideration, posted their fantasy girl, one of the trolls decided to post about his fantasy ego that women worship him and if they did not, the women are the problem. Several posts were made. Eva tried to ignore, but I eventually flagged that asshole myself.

 

Maybe more of us need to start flagging the trolls, and hope moderators get the message that the community has a few cancerous tumors that need to be removed... or at least suspended and warned as to what they wrote or did that caused them to be suspended. Personally, one here who is on my ignore list, as that person is one of the most condescending and over all worthless creatures usually found on the bottom of shoes after walking thru a cow pasture. Only know it posted, as it was quoted by another. Hasn't bothered me one bit not reading it's drivel. 

 

The thread need not be locked, but posts can be deleted by staff.

[worik]

8 hours ago, Psalam said:

Speaking only for myself - I normally try warning people off "questionable" issues before actually hiding posts or locking Threads. I wish that I could pretend that this works most of the time but, since it works some of the time, I intend to keep trying it. However, some things are simple Rules violations. There are no questions. They require no interpretation. These posts are hidden and, generally, with absolutely no mention of that fact. To do so would simply be a way of drawing attention to how you go about getting under the skin of a Moderator.

I feel, that thread-locking in general is the worst available choice.

In @Evaloves4 case here, it is an example of even being counter productive.

 

The issue is, that the thread means a positive thing for Eva and those who took part. Locking it, is disappointing to the participants and counterproductive for whatever content was discussed.

Making it even worse, by this technique to trigger content-locking, any random Trolls can bring LL to a halt or at least stagger it painfully.

(I hope my point comes across the translation?)

 

 

@Ashal

I suggest a different approach for moderators (which is most likely more work for you)

• Thread locking is definetely suitable, if the original post or the poster are shifting a thread into questionable territories.
• Thread locking is NOT suitable, if it's just individual posts or a group of individuals.
• Dealing with questionable individual posts should always be the higher priority!
• The amount of questionable posts should make no difference (that's where it might be more work for you moderators)
• Temporary locking might be suitable to cool the moods a bit down. Make it 1 day, 3, days, a week... Just make it obvious to the original poster what is happening.
• Threads should be regularly unlockable by the original poster, perhaps by request, perhaps by themselves, perhaps after that above cooling phase

My suggestion might not need a technical change, just a slighty different policy how you moderators handle issues.

 

 

 

[johnpage]

Hi all may i say in relation to all the above posts and i agree in principle to what moderators are trying to do but what happened to ''Free Speech'' and should it not be up to the poster to decide if he/she is offended after all we are pretty much all adults here and most of us can decide for ourselves if a moderator needs to step in and decide if a person is trolling i am aware of Political correctness but in my opinion being political correct dampens free speech

[nIn nIn nIn]

23 hours ago, Evaloves4 said:

> I am fucking sick and tired that trolls won again. My thread was locked because of few imbeciles whose purpose was to make it locked by posting insults and negativism while, in the same time those morons posting sick mods that has nothing to do with common sense, but mental disturbance. Locking my thread instead of disciplining those creature isn't fair. I am taking a long break from LL and not sure if I am coming back.

 

Don't go Eva, you are one of the good members of this community.

As for the trolls, I have started to put them on "ignore". I got very tired of the individuals who make snide comments that skirt around homophobic and transphobic attitudes on here. Some even post threads that are borderline such as the one asking if there are any REAL WOMEN here. His comments in the thread hinted at being transphobic - so I put that thread and the author on ignore. There are others who troll threads and get away with it because they also post mods on LL. Even some moderators are getting into the act of trolling anyone who objects to these "members" activity.

I refuse to engage with them at all, because responding to the trolls gets one sanctioned by their moderator mate every time. It's not worth the hassle, which is probably why they continue to troll other members.

 

[mircislav]

Trolling is the oldest activity together with assassinations and prostitution... trolls are and will be everywhere. So, if moderator(s) do not delete the topic from the start (for whatever reason) maybe just give the thread owner ability to delete comments they don't like...

[Pamatronic]

11 minutes ago, mircislav said:

maybe just give the thread owner ability to delete comments they don't like...

 

Simslover69: uploads some stolen content and puts it behind a patreon paywall.

 

RandomCommenter: Dude, Im pretty sure that stuff ist even yours.

 

OriginalOwner: Yeah, thats my stuff, put it down!

 

Simslover69: I don't like these comments. *delete*

 

 

Yeah, sounds like a great Idea really.

Just because you started a Thread doesn't mean you should be in control of the the narrative. That´s what the Moderators are for. They might not be perfect, but they usually do a good job at judging things from a neutral standpoint. At least In my humble opinion.

Also, If you really need your personal safe space, just open up a blog, You can delete comments there.

[mircislav]

15 minutes ago, Pamatronic said:

control of the the narrative

You twist my point - I was referring to trolling.  

[Pamatronic]

10 minutes ago, mircislav said:

You twist my point - I was referring to trolling.  

And who exactly is going to decide whether a comment is valid criticism or "trolling"?

[Psalam]

3 hours ago, johnpage said:

Hi all may i say in relation to all the above posts and i agree in principle to what moderators are trying to do but what happened to ''Free Speech'' and should it not be up to the poster to decide if he/she is offended after all we are pretty much all adults here and most of us can decide for ourselves if a moderator needs to step in and decide if a person is trolling i am aware of Political correctness but in my opinion being political correct dampens free speech

I don't mean to pick on you but yours is the post that deals the most directly with my current point.

 

LL is NOT a "free speech" zone. Hell, colleges don't have free speech zones anymore. High Courts and government entities happily places limits on speech. Please people, get that concept out of your head (here at least). This is Ashal's site. We are all here because she allows us to be here. We have no inherent, inalienable right to post whatever we feel like on LL. If you want to post here please follow the Rules. You can find these easily on the bottom left of every page (click on "View Community Rules" - it's in blue because it's a link) or, if you want to hit the top of the page, click "Browse" and choose "Guidelines" from the dropdown menu.

[Grey Cloud]

2 minutes ago, Psalam said:

The US Supreme Court happily places limits on speech.

 

2 minutes ago, Psalam said:

We have no inherent, God-given right

You can't mention politics or religion.

[Psalam]

2 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

 

You can't mention politics or religion.

Damn, you're right. Well, let me go back and edit my post but leave these so that others can see what happened.

[mircislav]

23 minutes ago, Psalam said:

LL is NOT a "free speech" zone

and thats right...

[Lyman the Lunatic]

What happened? See if I understand correctly, a troll started whining about some silly SJW talking point, slapped with a mod & that got your thread locked? Well, I guess I'll be upset too.
I don't know, maybe it'll be nice to kick a troll off your thread? But then again. I can see the feature getting abused as well. Well, good luck on your LL break, I suppose. You're not alone, I generally find 1st world problems in general too stupid to understand as well.

[worik]

49 minutes ago, Psalam said:

We have no inherent, inalienable right to post whatever we feel like on LL.

I felt tempted to post the "rules" page. But you formulated that much better than I.

 

46 minutes ago, Psalam said:

Damn, you're right. Well, let me go back and edit my post but leave these so that others can see what happened.

That brings me back to my suggestions and that thread locking is usually the worst course, since we have much better ways.

Your post is a practical example of self-hygiene. God lknows how often I felt the need to edit my own posts. A reminder should work (for most adults).

And beyond that, I am a strong fan of hiding posts by moderators.

 

Even though it will be more workload, I do suggest to always contact the member with the offending post(s) and remind him/her about the reason behind it.

Please keep in mind that many issues can be solved by that, because many of us are not fluent in the english language and some even rely 100% on translation tools with questionable outcome. (I am remembering one at this point ?️ )

 

 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Lyman the Lunatic said:

What happened? See if I understand correctly, a troll started whining about some silly SJW talking point, slapped with a mod & that got your thread locked? Well, I guess I'll be upset too.
I don't know, maybe it'll be nice to kick a troll off your thread? But then again. I can see the feature getting abused as well. Well, good luck on your LL break, I suppose. You're not alone, I generally find 1st world problems in general too stupid to understand as well.

What happened?

Easy.

 

Abuse of report button.

A ton of actual trolls and shit posts were removed when reported.

 

But this person, whining against the staff and so the whole site, reports whoever is not in line with her thoughts.

 

Do we have full free speech? No. We allow a ton of stuff but we cannot allow everything.

Do we have rules? Yes. No politics, religion, hate, piracy, underage stuff. And do NOT abuse of the report button.

 

Do we like trolls? No.

Are we a kindergartener site? Not at all. People are 100% free to disagree with each other as long the tones are kept down.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, worik said:

Dealing with questionable individual posts should always be the higher priority!

This is really the best solution... but, it needs to be the people who are making contributory posts who MUST start flagging the trolls. The OP needs to flag offenders! @Evaloves4 tends not to want to do this.

 

By nature of the site, LL rules are a tad loose regarding general offensiveness, and for good reason. But as content in a thread approaches that point of being locked, THAT is when moderators need to examine who, what, where and when... the thread deviated off course, and the one who initiated the course change should be the one blocked from posting, and PM'd directly as to why they are blocked. I strongly believe in telling the offender what the crime is, so they can make effort to correct their behavior.

 

21 minutes ago, CPU said:

What happened?

Easy.

 

Abuse of report button.

A ton of actual trolls and shit posts were removed when reported.

 

But this person, whining against the staff and so the whole site, reports whoever is not in line with her thoughts.

 

Do we have full free speech? No. We allow a ton of stuff but we cannot allow everything.

Do we have rules? Yes. No politics, religion, hate, piracy, underage stuff. And do NOT abuse of the report button.

 

Do we like trolls? No.

Are we a kindergartener site? Not at all. People are 100% free to disagree with each other as long the tones are kept down.

"Abuse of report button." By the OP? Or by others??? Were the flagged comments inline with the topic, or beginning to deviate toward the usual misogynistic tones that tend to be the fuel for fire used by some of the least tolerant and most offensive? "Misogynistic"... I am far from an SJW type, and will berate them into submission at every chance, but also feel that on a site such as LL with the community we have, having some level of social grace and the ability to recognize ones harsher tendencies and curb them IS necessary.

 

If it was the OP who you felt abused the report button, perhaps the first step should be to send PM and say why you feel the flagged comment is appropriate and should not have been flagged. So, the OP now may understand what YOU expect, feel is or is not ok, and try to adjust... BEFORE locking a thread.

 

I fully understand that being a moderator is a tough job. You won't please everyone every time. I do not know if possible, but perhaps the report button can be modified so the explanation is a required field for the report to register, and give the moderator understanding of why the repoter felt they needed to report the post?

 

I have reported posts, and use the explanation so when you or any moderator sees it, you understand why I felt the post should be reported. No guessing what my thinking was... If you try, it could cause blindness, loss of bowl control and several other problems, usually ending in anal bleeding.