Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[DarthCheney]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Thanks!

 

Be aware that ZAP 9 currently breaks whipping (use ZAP 8).  Yes, you can easily test it.  In the console, enter "set vkjTest to 1", then talk to your owner while enslaved and ask "Master?" then "[TEST] I want to test something" (at the bottom of the options).  It's a real whipping (with the punishment debuff), so save beforehand.

Awesome, thanks for the reply! Yeah, I saw the bit about ZAP9 in the description and fortunately I have 8 installed. OAR's animation log seems to indicate mco anims being activated, so it's gotta be that. Alright well off I go to get my poor character repeatedly whipped while I likely pull out the rest of my hair.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, DarthCheney said:

Awesome, thanks for the reply! Yeah, I saw the bit about ZAP9 in the description and fortunately I have 8 installed. OAR's animation log seems to indicate mco anims being activated, so it's gotta be that. Alright well off I go to get my poor character repeatedly whipped while I likely pull out the rest of my hair.

 

This could be useful:

 

They say its for Prison Alternative but I think it uses a generic ZAP keyword check to swap out the whipping attack animation for an MCO-compatible equivalent.

[DarthCheney]

54 minutes ago, ponzipyramid said:

 

This could be useful:

 

They say its for Prison Alternative but I think it uses a generic ZAP keyword check to swap out the whipping attack animation for an MCO-compatible equivalent.

 

Awesome, I'll try this out.  Thank you.  I use Pama's mods as well and I was going to check the interactive beatup thing next anyway, lol.  I also have several of your mods running Ponzi, so in my continued attempt to show support to creators, thank you for your excellent work as well.  Now if only I could find a fix for TDM that didn't break all the scripted walking in PA and its addons.

 

Oh hell, TDM JUST got updated!  Keeping my fingers crossed.

Edited October 27, 2023 by DarthCheney

[Talesien]

4 hours ago, ponzipyramid said:

They say its for Prison Alternative but I think it uses a generic ZAP keyword check to swap out the whipping attack animation for an MCO-compatible equivalent.

It checks for the prison cuffs PA equips on the player. I've converted it to OAR and have been able to adapt it to other scenarios as well by changing the conditions. Didn't try for SLTR but I'm pretty certain it should be to difficult.

[lcewolf]

@HexBolt8

 

Since i read monoman post about little appreciation modder get,

 

I just want to thanks you again for yours mods and implication.  You constanstly answer politly and are very active answering

question sometime over and over with all yours creations.

 

You even suprise me when you create more content even if it's difficult and life kick in you still find time.

 

Thank you @HexBolt8!

[DarthCheney]

15 hours ago, Talesien said:

It checks for the prison cuffs PA equips on the player. I've converted it to OAR and have been able to adapt it to other scenarios as well by changing the conditions. Didn't try for SLTR but I'm pretty certain it should be to difficult.

 

For the npc it just checks for OldCropSmall, so I combined that in an OR condition with a check for zbfWeaponPunishment which seems to help. I'm still getting a fair bit of the owner walking in place and not really doing anything, but when she does start whipping it's more consistent.

 

I'll try tweaking the player's condition as well and see if that makes any difference. Maybe a check for a collar equipped will do it.

[Hex Bolt]

12 hours ago, lcewolf said:

I just want to thanks you again for yours mods and implication.

Thank you.  Of course, it's just human nature to only speak up when there's a problem.  I do it too.  I'll try to be better at expressing my appreciation for other mods that I use.  It also extends to personal relationships.  How often do we give a word of appreciation to someone close to us?  And if we do, does that person look at us strangely and ask, "What's wrong, are you feeling okay?"   

[I unpause]

I am also a large fan of the mod, I love how much has been added to it and how you have a vision for the mod and only pick and chose things that fit with that vision.

I was talking with a friend of mine and they said that they though a cool way to potentially start the mod would be by losing a fist fight to someone like Uthgerd.

To give an idea of how they imagine it playing out, 

 

1. You approach the Person and start talking to them
2. You offer to fight them and they say they are interested in something other then gold if they win
3. You lose the fight and they put the collar on you and start treating you like they are the Forceful option.
4. I would expect them to have a contract time of something like a week or a month.

[Hex Bolt]

13 minutes ago, I unpause said:

a cool way to potentially start the mod would be by losing a fist fight to someone like Uthgerd.

Thank you for the idea.  I'm making a note in my possible features list to ponder how this might work best.  A few comments:

 

Only a few potential companions (only Uthgerd and Benor?) can be recruited by winning a brawl (most brawls are only for money).  Hooking into the end of the brawl could be tricky, since it already has sort of force greeting or blocking topic for your win or loss.  Therefore, a separate brawling topic could get around having to work with generic brawling (which other mods like Deviously Vanilla modify), and it could apply to any potential follower.  You challenge the NPC, gaining a follower and master if you lose.

 

I'd have to think about the wording, since the PC is supposed to be submissive (or at least have a hidden submissive streak).  Something like "I'd like to test myself against you" would be much better than "You don't look so tough".  "I need a strong hand to guide me, if you're strong enough" would tie in well.  I'd have to look at how brawling is implemented to see how it might work.  It's an interesting concept.  Typically, I think of force of will and a dominant personality as the requirement, but perhaps someone needs to know that a potential master can physically dominate without needing a punishment collar (you'd get one of those too, of course).

 

Should it be a fair fight?  One might think so, but if the human player has to hold back to lose, undermining your character isn't very fun, any more than it would be to walk into a bandit camp and deliberately make your character lose to experience a "defeat" that you caused.  Something to consider.

 

39 minutes ago, I unpause said:

... the Forceful option.  I would expect them to have a contract time of something like a week or a month.

The Forceful option requires a minimum two-week contract, so that would fit.  Sadly, I'd probably have to write at least a separate intro to the Forceful conversation and disallow the "I've changed my mind" responses.

 

Taking the concept further, another kind of physical contest could be fun -- a round of sex and the one who loses control and becomes the passive participant becomes the other one's sex slave, probably leading into the Seductive dialog (but with a minimum contract).  It might be possible to start with a consensual animation, then switch to a "rough" one with the PC in the receiving position (the PC will always lose).  That kinda seems more fun (and befitting a submissive) than punching each other, though the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive.  The PC gets to realize the dream of sex with the NPC, and the NPC gets to "test drive" the potential slave to decide if this one is worth the trouble.  I like the potential.  The PC's opening line could be a simple, possibly tentative, request for sex, to which the NPC responds with the challenge.  You can decline and earn the NPC's scorn, but only after the NPC tries to persuade you to change your mind.  "You already worked up the courage to ask me.  You know you want to do this.  Just let me undress you, and we'll see what happens.  But remember the rules, sweetie."

[shrtjsrtj]

For a sex battle idea, depending on how it works you might be able to reuse some of it for a rematch. First thought is to put where you ask to leave while still under contract, and they offer some sort of wager with stakes decisively in their favor. Probably only offer this when under a month on the contract(I think there's a dialogue where they wont offer extra contract time for money if you're contracted this long), and something like 2 days off for a one week extension if you lose, max of 4 weeks.

 

At the moment there's no way to remove contract time and that may be intentional, if so a wager for something else would be needed. I had an issue with OSLAroused a while ago where the masters arousal wouldn't go low enough even after sex for me to wear clothes again, and that may be a nice place for it. The problem was easy to fix once I eventually looked into it by tweaking some arousal settings, but I didn't look into it for a while because the dialogue there is so good. In any case, the wager would probably be extra contract time vs wearing clothes, as I'm struggling to find anything other than contract time that the master would want, everything else they can just take or make you do. Maybe another option if you lose is to change the settings of forced to kneel and to offer service before asking anything, something like "If you lose you will always offer to serve me before even thinking of your desires, and do so on your knees.".

 

But probably a better idea is to instead integrate it into sex with the master. This way when they say you shouldn't cum first there are consequences if you do.

[valcon767]

12 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Should it be a fair fight?  One might think so, but if the human player has to hold back to lose, undermining your character isn't very fun, any more than it would be to walk into a bandit camp and deliberately make your character lose to experience a "defeat" that you caused.  Something to consider.

 

 

imho no it should not be a fair contest (what kind of contest does not matter). 

 

for example  maybe both have a drink before brawling.  their drink has some major buffs (bonus to unarmed and total health) while your drink is

spiked (debuffs to unarmed and temporary health penalties).

 

for a drinking contest they get watered down beer (lower alcohol content) while you get really strong beer (boosted alcohol content), then on the third

beer you get one spiked with a knock out drug, and afterward they could say something along the lines of "I thought you could drink more than that before

passing out".

 

just my 2 cents worth to take or leave as you see fit.

 

[blahity]

On the idea of contests, a few ideas came to mind. A foot race, a first-to-three-hits duel, archery contest, drinking contest, music contest, hunting competition, pickpocketing challenge.

[Anunya]

Back to messing with my modlist again and catching up on things. Wanted to take a moment to appreciate SubLola -

 

It's one of my all time favourite mods and it's always in my modlist. There are plenty of games where it doesn't get used, but it's always there as something that might happen and that adds flavour to the entire playthrough just by its potential. And then, of course, occasionally my poor girl does get enslaved to my great enjoyment.

 

The mod itself is basically trouble free in terms of using - I don't recall every being frustrated by a bug or other weirdness.

 

Great work, and thank you  

[Anunya]

While personally I'm not sure about "sex battles" (mostly because I find SLSO less directly engaging than I'd hope) I do enjoy a good brainstorm. So here are some things that I could see Lola and her owner wagering on:

 

If Lola Wins

• No need to offer service for the rest of the day
• Bonus gold allowance (makes sense if gold sharing)
• End enforced nudity
• A bunch of booze (useful for Run Lola Run, or just to drink)
• End slavery (this is obviously pretty drastic)
• Sell Lola to SS++ (obviously drastic, and would require proper framing)

If Lola Loses

• Trigger previously wagered event (Pony girl, prostitution)
• Wear a gag for a period of time
• Start enforced nudity (for extended period of time)
• Punishment whipping
• Additional contract day(s)
• No allowance for some period of time (requires gold sharing)
• Service counter for the day reset to zero (or just subtracted from)
• Start the Treasure Hunter quest
• Sell Lola to SS++ (obviously drastic, and would require framing)

As always, use or discard whatever makes sense. Ideas are cheap

[Anunya]

Related to the upthread conversation about how to Lola becomes a slave, one of the ways that features heavily in my games (via RP mostly) is the Master taking on Lola as an apprentice and teaching her magic, but requiring total obedience as the price.

 

I even went so far as making a follower with a quest to earn the privilege of becoming Master's apprentice (some fetch quests and whatnot), though I didn't quite finish because CK is a pain, I don't really know what I'm doing, and I didn't know how to hook it into SubLola properly. But the bits that worked felt good.

 

The main thing about the conceit is that Lola is weak, she desires power, and she is willing (at least at the moment of enslavement) to pay the price for it.

 

She doesn't have (much) access to magic before becoming a slave, but once she puts on the collar she gets a boost to Magical Skills + Magicka + Magicka regen (in my game it's enough that she can actually start learning Magic, as earlier than that her stats are too low). Over time that boost recedes (but Lola gets XP and become more powerful, so it's not so bad). However, if she stops being a slave she gets a penalty to those skills / Magicka / Magicka Regen for a while. Basically, her power is dependent on her Master and leaving him is painful. I'd love it if there was a way for the user define a boost to Lola's stats from being a slave and some withdrawal symptoms for no longer being a slave (I use SL Disparity, but it's not 100% reliable on SE).

 

At the same time the Master is a teacher. There's the skill increase reward in SubLola which helps, and RP wise all the things that increases XP from adventuring can be seen as the Master's instructions. I put a bunch of spell tomes in my custom follower's inventory, but one feature that I think would be great in SubLola is to define a list of things that the Master could dole out periodically (based on Submission or skill progression or whatnot) - maybe defined in a .json or similar to how potential masters are defined, or maybe some containers that could be filled at game setup or something. In my case I'd put spell tomes in.

 

Anyhow, I put this here in case there are ideas @HexBolt8 likes or in case anyone finds it inspiring for their own playthroughs. I managed to get most of the vibe through tuning other mods. Still, I'd love any in-mod support for the idea that Lola doesn't really want to be a slave, but it's her best option to become more powerful so she agrees and has to make peace with the consequences (or not).

Edited October 31, 2023 by Anunya

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Anunya said:

The mod itself is basically trouble free in terms of using - I don't recall every being frustrated by a bug or other weirdness.

Thank you.  I value reliability, so I try to only build features that will work dependably, even if it means maybe not doing something that would be pretty cool but susceptible to problems.

 

16 hours ago, shrtjsrtj said:

...the wager would probably be extra contract time vs wearing clothes...

I might have given the wrong idea earlier about challenges.  They would only be used for a new, interesting way to get enslaved, such as losing a brawl (the original suggestion by @I unpause) or a sex challenge.  Once you're a slave, the owner doesn't need contests.  However, I've written down a similar feature idea to trade wearing clothes (for the Eye Candy rule) for contract time.  Thank you for the idea.

 

I try to avoid deals (that's a Devious Followers thing), but the owner will want to extend contract time up to a month (as with the gold for contract time offer).  More time shouldn't be needed.  If Lola is a good submissive, she won't want to end the enslavement after a few weeks of training.  Otherwise, she's unworthy of the owner's time & effort, so let her go and see if she comes crawling back (or sell her, if we're being extreme).

 

1 hour ago, Anunya said:

While personally I'm not sure about "sex battles" (mostly because I find SLSO less directly engaging than I'd hope) I do enjoy a good brainstorm.

I wouldn't involve SLSO.  I'd rather not have to support implementations both with and without SLSO, and SLSO tends to overcomplicate matters so that the end result is less reliable.  My idea was that one participant would end up in the dominant role during the sex and be the winner and might even end up having more (and earlier) orgasms by exerting control.  Lola's submissive nature will work against her and cause her to lose to someone who's sufficiently forceful and controlling.  They're testing each other:  "Are you strong enough to be my master?" and "Are you a suitable sex slave?"

[Anunya]

Thank you for prioritizing stability @HexBolt8 - I absolutely think it's the right decision.

 

It was probably I who misunderstood the conversations about wagers - the scenario you describe sounds pretty good 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Anunya

[Hex Bolt]

33 minutes ago, Anunya said:

Master taking on Lola as an apprentice and teaching her magic, but requiring total obedience as the price....

The main thing about the conceit is that Lola is weak, she desires power, and she is willing (at least at the moment of enslavement) to pay the price for it.

A very similar concept to Dealing with (Sexual) Daedra.  (I'm following that mod, but I haven't tried it, so it's just a mention, not a recommendation). 

 

45 minutes ago, Anunya said:

At the same time the Master is a teacher.

NFF (Nether's Follower Framework) has a Regard System that can allow a follower to occasionally improve the PC's skills.  That might interest you.  I think the follower's skill has to be higher than yours, so that would fit a master-apprentice relationship.

 

55 minutes ago, Anunya said:

I put a bunch of spell tomes in my custom follower's inventory, but one feature that I think would be great in SubLola is to define a list of things that the Master could dole out periodically

That's a fun idea, but the "shopping" feature (spending the owner's gold) is intended to cover things like that.  You could spend Master's gold to buy spell toes from a vendor.  It's less personal than being given books, but it's simple & flexible.

 

59 minutes ago, Anunya said:

once she puts on the collar she gets a boost to Magical Skills + Magicka + Magicka regen

Boosting the PC's power can be a slippery slope leading to transforming a weakish PC into a strong one.  I like your roleplaying concept for starting out inadequate and needing the extra magic, but most players probably wouldn't do it that way.  The way you're doing it might be best, or gaining power though an Angrim's Apprentice type of mod (or the Sexual Daedra one, though that might not work well if you have a master).  I like the concept of a dependence on the owner, but I'm not sure how well that would work here.  I jotted down some of your ideas to think about.

[Anunya]

Sounds good. Whatever you come up with, I'm sure I can use

 

And in the meantime, I'm doing okay with RP and tweaking other mods.

 

Dealing With (Sexual) Daedra gets a solid thumbs up from me. They're great for "scrambling to get power in a dangerous world, but at what price" RP and the alternate starts they provide (via Live Another Life) are really flavourful too. Definitely worth checking out when you have the time/ inclination.

[fred200]

Any collaboration between Hexbolt and Anunya would not be frowned upon...

[Lightsong]

I had a thought, what would you think of some kind of small debuff applied to Lola after anytime Master feeds on them as a vampire to simulate that the feeding makes them temporarily weaker from the blood loss, and thus more dependant on Master.

[Hex Bolt]

8 minutes ago, Lightsong said:

some kind of small debuff applied to Lola after anytime Master feeds on them as a vampire to simulate that the feeding makes them temporarily weaker from the blood loss

It's already in there.  The Blood Drain effect is a temporary loss of 10 points of Health & Stamina, intentionally small enough that it won't cripple a low-level character.

[I unpause]

The ideas here all sound good and I'm glad that my recommendation has brought out a bunch of new ideas.

The idea came about as we were talking about good ways of getting the player into the contract in game, the Book deal is fine same with the Simple Slavery and Public Whore integration but alternate options are always nice and they mentioned that she liked the idea of a strong man leading her into such a contract and a bit of talk later we came up with that idea so make of that what you will.

I am also of the mind that the more stable the better.

 

While I'm not apposed to "deals" I'm not sure I like the idea of Combat with Master, Lola should not want to fight master and if she does so I would more see that as something that might cause Master to sell Lola via Simple Slavery or PW as that shows a lack of respect.
 

[Hex Bolt]

42 minutes ago, I unpause said:

The ideas here all sound good and I'm glad that my recommendation has brought out a bunch of new ideas.

Thank you.  Also, I didn't notice until now that you're a fairly new member here, so welcome to the community!

 

44 minutes ago, I unpause said:

I'm not sure I like the idea of Combat with Master, Lola should not want to fight master and if she does so I would more see that as something that might cause Master to sell Lola via Simple Slavery or PW as that shows a lack of respect.

Brawling before enslavement is one thing, but that's absolutely forbidden to a slave.  If you haven't tried it yet, save your game first then enable "Punish harming owner" and take a swing at your owner outside of combat (mods, perks, or features that disable friendly fire have to be disabled for the attack to register).

[I unpause]

I've lurked here for a while and finally joined. I'll give that a Shot Hexbolt sounds like it could be interesting