Modders: What are we modding for?

[Kimy]

Let's see...

 

2.8 million combined downloads of mods that I made and/or at least maintained for a substantial amount of time.

Total amount of likes: 1052. Representing 0.04% of downloads.

I also operate a tip-jar/no-paywall Patreon that has currently exactly 100 members contributing about $3 on average. Which is a fraction of what the average Sims 4 animation package makes a month. Hmmmmmm. Either my mods suck really bad, or people suck at appreciating them. Take your pick!

 

I guess it's safe to assume that I'd no longer be here if I'd be after likes in any shape or form. (Honestly, I had no idea how many likes or downloads I had until this thread compelled me to check it)

 

Why do I make mods? I guess it really boils down to because I like it and because I have the time. And because I learned how to laugh off all the silly hate postings I get for making free stuff. And because by the standards of a stay-at-home parent, even $300 a month is better than no income at all. Don't ask me if it will be enough in the long run, though. Maybe I should learn how to make animations and make five times that amount with less work.

[mrrrori]

7 hours ago, Kimy said:

And because by the standards of a stay-at-home parent, even $300 a month is better than no income at all. Don't ask me if it will be enough in the long run, though.

Dwarf Fortress creators started with less - and kept pressing on.

wink wink nudge nudge

[Psalam]

12 hours ago, Kimy said:

Let's see...

 

2.8 million combined downloads of mods that I made and/or at least maintained for a substantial amount of time.

Total amount of likes: 1052. Representing 0.04% of downloads.

I also operate a tip-jar/no-paywall Patreon that has currently exactly 100 members contributing about $3 on average. Which is a fraction of what the average Sims 4 animation package makes a month. Hmmmmmm. Either my mods suck really bad, or people suck at appreciating them. Take your pick!

 

I guess it's safe to assume that I'd no longer be here if I'd be after likes in any shape or form. (Honestly, I had no idea how many likes or downloads I had until this thread compelled me to check it)

 

Why do I make mods? I guess it really boils down to because I like it and because I have the time. And because I learned how to laugh off all the silly hate postings I get for making free stuff. And because by the standards of a stay-at-home parent, even $300 a month is better than no income at all. Don't ask me if it will be enough in the long run, though. Maybe I should learn how to make animations and make five times that amount with less work.

Even before I became a mod author I understood your position. When I wrote the Navigating LL series of blog posts I put a Parody section within it that includes many fine insights into LL users. One that is relevant here is:

 

give "likes" only to screenshots of busty elves in bikini armor, NEVER EVER waste them on the mod authors that made those shots possible in the first place

 

In fairness, this line was suggested to me but I clearly subscribe to its meaning.

[SurverX]

20 hours ago, Kimy said:

...And because I learned how to laugh off all the silly hate postings I get for making free stuff...

Ha, that is my favourite part ?

I always wonder why these people that do not like your mods that you make for FREE ("... these huge futas look unreall and ugly...") why dont they just keep going?

 

... i never understood that ?

 

P.S.: "2.8 million combined downloads" ... Fuuuck! ?

[Fotogen]

Sex sells. Look at most commercials. And female models make more money then males. Alot more.

 

So add boobs. Pure profit.

 

[Alter Native]

If you're not doing it for yourselves, for your own personal enjoyment of creating something, you're working for the trash.

No amount of likes or random internet comments is worth the work and time you put into this.

Even if you get some money via patreon or whatever you're probably still working for below minimum wage, at least in western countries.

 

So... if you're not enjoying your time and are proud of what you have created you are wasting your time.

 

[KoolHndLuke]

To the OP, I don't give a damn about downloads or endorsements for my crap. It's when one of them takes the time to write and tell you how much they like your work- now that is special. One or two even offered to support me- I still don't feel comfortable with it.

[27X]

5 hours ago, Surverx said:

Ha, that is my favourite part ?

I always wonder why these people that do not like your mods that you make for FREE ("... these huge futas look unreall and ugly...") why dont they just keep going?

 

... i never understood that ?

 

P.S.: "2.8 million combined downloads" ... Fuuuck! ?

Nah. You don't get it both ways and any modders that thinks they should is bound down the path of Arthmoor and Plexus Krista and any other plain old generic hypocrite. The notion that your mod can be ignored is just that a notion. If someone doesn't like dickgirls, that's their business and not yours and if you MAKE your business public then it's set to public scrutiny, and therefore public opinion.

 

The fanciful naive fourth grade notion that a modder may only ever receive love and praise is just that. Fourth grade. Anything proffered for use is up to subjective and objective scrutiny, positive or otherwise.

 

"Why don't you just move on and not comment mean stuff on my mod"

 

Well the cross corollary to that is "why don't you not publish your mod".

 

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too, and you'll find that walled garden modders aren't people you wanna have any kind of conversation with because modders that can't take criticism don't last very long in real world communication.

 

If they offer an opinion that offends thee, simply say so and move on, establishes your position and then you're free to do other things like make more mods.

 

The nexus is the trainwreck it is because some actually think you can enforce open mindedness and egalitarianism, and the rest of the output from gaming says quite literally otherwise.

 

To further that as someone working in the industry, it's literally out loud laughable to talk shit on professional product but amateur modding is sacrosanct and above reproach. It's all the same; and context is king.

[SurverX]

49 minutes ago, 27X said:

"If they offer an opinion that offends thee, simply say so and move on, establishes your position and then you're free to do other things like make more mods."

I do understand that point: If you go public with your stuff you have to take the critic. That is fair.

But how reasonable is it to critisize something that is already made for a special audience and that is for free? We all know that if it comes to sex there are things that makes someone horny and the other one laughs about it (or feels attacked)?

 

"...because modders that can't take criticism don't last very long in real world communication."

Yes, that is correct. I take it one time, tow times,,, but than there is a point were i am out (i went already through that ? ).

 

So, i guess @Alter Native is right: "...if you're not enjoying your time and are proud of what you have created you are wasting your time."

And the more you think about it you will come to the conclusion that it is wasted time.

[SurverX]

2 hours ago, Alter Native said:

If you're not doing it for yourselves, for your own personal enjoyment of creating something, you're working for the trash.

No amount of likes or random internet comments is worth the work and time you put into this.

Even if you get some money via patreon or whatever you're probably still working for below minimum wage, at least in western countries.

 

So... if you're not enjoying your time and are proud of what you have created you are wasting your time.

I guess you nailed it!

[SurverX]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

To the OP, I don't give a damn about downloads or endorsements for my crap. It's when one of them takes the time to write and tell you how much they like your work- now that is special. One or two even offered to support me- I still don't feel comfortable with it.

"...One or two even offered to support me- I still don't feel comfortable with it."

Yes, in that moment you get paid for it they have all the right to tell you what is wrong and how to make things ?

... and you will loose your freedom.

[Kendo 2]

I mod for that sweet-sweet Patreon cash and external validation from losers on the internet.

[KoolHndLuke]

On 5/25/2020 at 8:22 PM, Kendo 2 said:

I mod for that sweet-sweet Patreon cash and external validation from losers on the internet.

The truth is finally revealed! You've been scamming people the whole time. I won't mind the next time I hack your meshes, textures. 

 

A question though, what is so bad about getting paid for your work? Being in it for the money? Some people make a LOT of money through Patreon. What if a there was a way for MAs to make a dime per download? To each person a dime is nothing, but millions of dimes adds up pretty quick. A perfect system that would launch modding into the stratosphere. Instead of people asking for mods to be made, they would be making them.

 

Perhaps there was a time when the "forever free" motto worked when modding games didn't practically demand a masters degree to do it. Maybe that time has passed? I've made maybe a $100 modding......and it helped since I don't have much money. At one dime per download I would have made around $10,000. There are ways around an EULA.

[27X]

1 hour ago, Surverx said:

I do understand that point: If you go public with your stuff you have to take the critic. That is fair.

But how reasonable is it to critisize something that is already made for a special audience and that is for free? We all know that if it comes to sex there are things that makes someone horny and the other one laughs about it (or feels attacked)?

 

"...because modders that can't take criticism don't last very long in real world communication."

Yes, that is correct. I take it one time, tow times,,, but than there is a point were i am out (i went already through that ? ).

 

So, i guess @Alter Native is right: "...if you're not enjoying your time and are proud of what you have created you are wasting your time."

And the more you think about it you will come to the conclusion that it is wasted time.

Reasonable has nothing to do with anything. People are neither rational nor reasonable. If your feels are bruised by mean words, again as stated perhaps putting yourself into the public eye is not for you.

 

See the problem with being truly progressive and open minded is you have to tolerate everything, not just the things that fetish your fetish and the things that give you warm fuzzies but also the things that you dislike. or hate.

[Kimy]

2 hours ago, 27X said:

Nah. You don't get it both ways and any modders that thinks they should is bound down the path of Arthmoor and Plexus Krista and any other plain old generic hypocrite. The notion that your mod can be ignored is just that a notion. If someone doesn't like dickgirls, that's their business and not yours and if you MAKE your business public then it's set to public scrutiny, and therefore public opinion.

 

The fanciful naive fourth grade notion that a modder may only ever receive love and praise is just that. Fourth grade. Anything proffered for use is up to subjective and objective scrutiny, positive or otherwise.

 

"Why don't you just move on and not comment mean stuff on my mod"

 

Well the cross corollary to that is "why don't you not publish your mod".

 

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too, and you'll find that walled garden modders aren't people you wanna have any kind of conversation with because modders that can't take criticism don't last very long in real world communication.

 

If they offer an opinion that offends thee, simply say so and move on, establishes your position and then you're free to do other things like make more mods.

 

The nexus is the trainwreck it is because some actually think you can enforce open mindedness and egalitarianism, and the rest of the output from gaming says quite literally otherwise.

 

To further that as someone working in the industry, it's literally out loud laughable to talk shit on professional product but amateur modding is sacrosanct and above reproach. It's all the same; and context is king.

Your posting missed the point by about five to six thousand light-years, because constructive criticism compares to hate postings about like apples to oranges. There is a difference to saying "you know, but this feature could do with this and that improvement" and getting compared to a medieval dictator or other niceties because you don't develop your mods not quite like the other party would prefer it. And I could post a LOT of examples of the latter. Again, I learned to laugh them off, because I accepted that only a part of humanity deserves to be taken seriously. And I don't know what particular part of the industry you work in, but in the one I remember working in? We tried to be constructive when discussing somebody's work.

[27X]

4 hours ago, Kimy said:

Your posting missed the point by about five to six thousand light-years, because constructive criticism compares to hate postings about like apples to oranges. There is a difference to saying "you know, but this feature could do with this and that improvement" and getting compared to a medieval dictator or other niceties because you don't develop your mods not quite like the other party would prefer it. And I could post a LOT of examples of the latter. Again, I learned to laugh them off, because I accepted that only a part of humanity deserves to be taken seriously. And I don't know what particular part of the industry you work in, but in the one I remember working in? We tried to be constructive when discussing somebody's work.

No, no it didn't.

 

The point your post is lightyears away from is marketing tries to form a wall of super nice hugs and only let in [constructive criticism], except in actual practice all marketing actually wants is money and accolades from pre-approved sources. The honey-fed castle AAA marketing tries to produce doesn't even kind of reproduce reality on any kind of scale or degree of accuracy, and the attendant articles thereof (mortal kombat touts progressive costume and character design whilst game leads actively and openly sexually harass staff and interns up to and including grading anatomy and sexual performance; "oh we're addressing terminal crunch with the absolute utmost attention care and diligence" (no we're not and as soon as this milestone is reached someone's performance review is going to recommend finding a vocation at another company) are rather easy to find.

 

People take games personally. People take games involving their sexual tolerance and fetish even more personally, and your construct where modders are several tiers above users in their gilded garden is an entirely artificial one, and the modders whom realize this early on are the ones whom tend to have the longest and most productive lifespans in their chosen endeavor.

[KoolHndLuke]

18 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I accepted that only a part of humanity deserves to be taken seriously

Agree about the constructive criticism. Please enlighten us further.....and say exactly what part of humanity is "to be taken seriously"- I'm still trying to figure that out, lol. 

[Kendo 2]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

A question though, what is so bad about getting paid for your work? Being in it for the money?

There are legitimate ways to earn money in 3d space; modding a game ain't one of 'em.  I make DAZ content under another name and not even my closest internet friends know what it is.  My storefront at Daz3D and my SmithMicro account bring in about $400 a month.  You see, those are ran like actual businesses and not whatever the fuck Bethesda.net is supposed to be; and certainly not a stupid game forum.  My DAZ content is controlled and licensed BY ME.  No one can say that for anything made to work with a Bethesda game.  I don't have to worry about what Bethesda is going to do with modding and their next release.  But if i was modding for money and pretending that's a real job I'd be very worried.

 

If I make a set of glass display cases for FO4 and upload them publicly anywhere I surrender ownership to Bethesda.  That's in their EULAs for every game now.  If I submit it to their Creation Club I get limited stipend that depends on milestones.  Once that runs out THEY get to keep the earnings.  If I upload the glass cases to Daz3D there is no vetting, milestones of fucking me out of my money.  My storefront fee never changes, I own the content and I can even do an Interactive License for the renders.  That's guaranteed income that doesn't depend on the assfuckery of Bethesda and Patreon or the whim-rules of a 'because I said so' game site moderator.

 

Uploading mods here and sticking Bethesda-owned content behind paywalls or pay tiers on Patreon ain't gonna last forever.  FO76 and 'you can only get mods from us' is the new normal.

[Kimy]

39 minutes ago, 27X said:

 and your construct where modders are several tiers above users in their gilded garden is an entirely artificial one, and the modders whom realize this early on are the ones whom tend to have the longest and most productive lifespans in their chosen endeavor.

No, I guess my point was that people come up with different excuses why being a rude moron would be somehow ok every day, and I have seen a LOT of these excuses. Enough to laugh them off and put them in the "Yeah, I am not taking YOU for serious anymore, either!!!" group. Guess how I lasted here for more than five years!

[KoolHndLuke]

15 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

Uploading mods here and sticking Bethesda-owned content behind paywalls or pay tiers on Patreon ain't gonna last forever.  FO76 and 'you can only get mods from us' is the new normal.

Looks that way. Of course they won't come right out and say it. But, how will any new modders develop if they stop supporting fan-based mods? A lot of people think they will still support the modding comm- I agree with you and think they won't. The good news is that the older games (Oblivion, FO3) should still be ok to mod- but I, for one, am getting spoiled to more modern games/graphics.

[KoolHndLuke]

21 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Guess how I lasted here for more than five years!

That or you just got nothing better to do, lol.

[Kimy]

1 minute ago, KoolHndLuke said:

That or you just got nothing better to do, lol.

That's the "The glass is half empty!" way to phrase it. There is always something else to do, I guess? But making naughty mods certainly beats doing the laundry or yard work, so what can I say?  

[DocClox]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Looks that way. Of course they won't come right out and say it. But, how will any new modders develop if they stop supporting fan-based mods?

I think they''re going to sideline the free modding community. They'll release the CK later and later, maybe release versions with some features locked to non-CreationCrap modders (even more so than usual, I mean). I expect they won't mind if you make mods for your own use at home, but they'll make it harder and harder to publish them except through the CC. And at the same time, they'll encourage home modders to share screenshots of their (unsharable) mods so that'll turn into pressure on the non-CC types to sign up and drink the kool-aid.

 

'Least, that's what I'd be thinking if I was an Evil Overlord, anyway.

[worik]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

But making naughty mods certainly beats doing the laundry or yard work, so what can I say?

THAT ☝️ is the point. +1

And probably it is my primary motivation. ..since when I started years ago to  change the games that I played  to my liking or to cheat my way around annoying obstacles in them that were no fun.

I do it purely for the fun of it.

Luckily, that fun is shared by my RL as long as I don't invest too much of our quality time into it. 

(Or draw from necessary chores. That's where laundry, cooking and stuff come into the game ).

 

Money is definetly out of the question at all. Period.

The administrative overhead to do it corerct (legally) would require me to open a formal business and make it my RL profession. Which I have no intention to do.

Aside from that, I strongly believe that all modding of a game is an art in itself and a special form of showing respect to the game's creator. Both must not be spoiled by me making money with it.

 

Feedback for published work is nice, but not necessary. And if it get's as bad and unconstructive as e.g. in Kimy's threads, I'd probably just stop answering and devote my precious time to more enjoyable communities.

 

My major issue with "successful modding" is what I described above as an "art".

It's the urge to achieve perfection by my own standards. Inherently, that keeps me from saying: "Well, it's done. Let's show it to others." a.k.a publish something or update it to a new version. 

[Guest]

Yesterday I was playing with my warlock, and looted some crossbows.

I proceeded to the smelter, as my warlock need resources for building the Caranthir tower, and none of the crossbows could be destroyed.

So, right now I'm modifying the legendary crossbows mod, adding smelter recipes to it.

I hope this answers the OP question. Because this is the main reason why I mod: to improve my own game.

And I dont need to ask permission for it.