Pama´s Interactive Gallows

[NicoleDragoness]

2 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

But i seems if you leave PlayerEssential-Bleedout disabled,

In fact I have Defeay with essential disabled and I didn't experienced strange things with the Gallows.

[DonQuiWho]

2 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

I had Heretical resources Activated during the creation of this, so this cant be the cause. Also tried it after deactivating HH and it still worked.

 

But i found something else:

After wasting my entire Sunday on finding a fix for Sexlab Defeat, i´m pretty sure that this is the cause. (for the weird physics)

I have no goddam clue whats wrong with that mod, but it spews errors at you the moment you try to just reference anything from it.

It somehow even manages to mess up the Physics. no idea how the Hell thats even possible.

Since you cant reference anything from it, i tried making some changes to itself, but it even refused to be edited in the CK scripteditor. again, no idea how thats possible.

 

Only thing i know is, that i´m done. sorry guys, no Defeat compatibility.

But i seems if you leave PlayerEssential-Bleedout disabled, it works (physics are still messed up) so you have to go with the health treshold version.

Or you can use the nonlethal version of the Gallow.

 

Followers dont seem to be affected by Defeat.

could you give me a link to the followers you use, that dont die?

Thank you very much for your efforts! 

 

 

1 NPCS: I was using a merged mod, but I'll try and give you some info on that, and which NPCs were in play

 

++++++++++

 

2 Defeat, Paralysis, Physics etc

 

I appreciate that you're done with that, which is more than fair enough, but for your info, in case it's of help anywhere else, I was banging my head earlier whilst looking at a few things today concerning paralysis and ragdolls, which I was beginning to think might be the cause of the problems I've been seeing with self elevating corpses and the like.  Kills whilst using Defeat's aggressor functions certainly cause those.  Restrain an NPC, kill them, and they rise majestically upwards or otherwise try to emulate a high speed necro'd act of aerial compulation 

 

\on this, firstly, I found in a post on the Defeat thread last year, a changelog on the 2.7.2019 version by Themis, which is, I think, the basis for all the current 'fixed' versions:  This includes a section about ragdolling and associated problems

 

• The problem of intersecting animations
•  
• Paralysis, ruthless power, death, sex animations, and not only they enter the character into a rag doll state. If one state has not ended, and another has already begun, then it will be difficult or even impossible to get rid of the state of a rag doll. Also, you cannot play ordinary animations and teleport actors with a script.
•  
• To make this less common, I had to change SexLab, Defeat and DDi. But due to compatibility issues, only the author of a specific Skyrim assembly can close the circle. You need to add Alias to the DDI quest (see Info.txt) and hasEffectKeyword (ImmuneParalysis) check in spells with hasKeyword (ImmuneParalysis) check. Mods don't give a damn about this problem.

...whatever that all means.  All a bit Double Russian to me, other than I think it probably says 'the physics can get screwed up'.    I've attached a full copy below

 

++++++++++

 

So while it's clear something is wrong with paralysis effects, and their impact on the physics,  the Nexus NPC Knockout Overhaul modder also seems to have spent a fair bit of time sorting out some of the problems he had with adding the paralysis effect to NPCs, and probably more importantly, how to remove it timeously to prevent its lingering long enough to screw up other things - which sounds awfully like what is maybe happening in Defeat

 

I'd put the guts of all that into one text file, for my own future ref, together with the Home Sweet Home chain attachment code, which relies on the NPC first being paralysed, , the thing I haven't been able to make work of late, and , I've attached the txt flle here for you. 

 

Again, timing of the paralysis effect removal seems to be of essence, so that whatever was going on has properly stopped before the next thing happens (well, in layman's terms, that's what I think it all means ? )  There seem to be distinctly different commands that can be used to remove the paralysis effect from the NPC, one a 'normal' removal, and the other to 'force' the removal.  Doubtless ypu'll have a better idea what all this means and if any of it is at all relevant.  I see you have Musje down as providing additional tech support, so as HSH is their baby, they'll know if I'm talking bollox or not

 

The txt includes 

 

the HSH code first,

the output of an NPC KnockOut Overhaul mod thread search for paralysis, where time reads from bottom to top,

the full mod changelog where the paralysis bugs referred to in the thread search get fixed in 2.2.1 and 2.4, in particular in the latter

    .... Bugfix: NPCs no longer get stuck in paralysis if they are ragdolled while reviving. 

 

If by this time, you haven't already lost the will to live, his mod has his script source code in it, so that might provide a few clues too

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52681

NKOMonitorEffectScript.psc

 

   Fix damage measure on fall while paralysed, starts at

      Line 193:     ; Work-around for the vanilla bug that makes paralysed actors immune to fall damage.
 

Knockout: 

   Start of
       Line 431:         actorRef.ModActorValue("Paralysis", 1) ; Add paralysis to stop the actor's animations.

   End of
       Line 539:         actorRef.ForceActorValue("Paralysis", 0) ; Forcibly remove paralysis from the actor.
   

I think that last line is what's different from, at least, the HSH code

 

++++++++++

 

All that's mainly for your own interest, and possible future reference. 

 

Meantime, I'll try your mod again on a game with defeat installed, and with the player set essential turned too, so to fall back on the health measure, and see if that affects the way your mod works in the same way as The Dragoness says she has seen  But I've ONLY tested it on NPCs. not the player, and I don't know exactly what she has done

 

You're probably sick of the sound of me so, other than telling you about those NPC's and what happens on a revided Defeat test, I'll try to leave you in peace for a while

 

Hope it helps anyway, or is at least of some interest

 

 

 

191213 Defeat Fixed 190702 version.txt 200405 Paralysis borking NPCs.txt

[t.ara]

NEW Gallow System for this mod and for ZAP 9 later:

 

New Noose Rope-three different length-sizes.....I can easily add more longer versions if necessary....

I also made a new gallow with more detailed wooden parts...

Because of this FINE new mod  I´ll add some new different versions.

You need not to wait for ZAP 9, I add it here and maybe pama likes to use it in the next version (s).

 

Under ZAP-I suggest to put all the stuff into the "furniture"-> "gallow" -folder.

The gallow uses skyrim- and zap 8-compatible textures.

 

-3 different sized gallow-ropes (skyrim-vanilla-compatible HDT-rope-has nothing to do with HDT-PE or with SMP !!!)

-a new gallow platform (static)

-a new gallow trapdoor (door)

-a new gallow-arm (furniture)

 

For the ZAP 9 pack, I´ll create some new suiting levers for the gallows.

 

p.s. the ropes have to be created in a different way....I´ll overhaul them later.....the "rest" is working perfectly well

 

 

 

 

 

OldGallow.7z

[CrazySloth]

is there an easy way to put the gallows in a custom house? I'm not very good with the CK.

[Virtualbom]

 

when im install zap animation is missing did i do something wrong ?

[Pamatronic]

Thats normal. This is a problem in the SE version of Zap8. You can safely ignore that.

[Pamatronic]

10 hours ago, Astral Wanker said:

is there an easy way to put the gallows in a custom house? I'm not very good with the CK.

 

There is an instruction in the download section with images. It shows exactly which parts to use and how to place them.

Unfortunately for something like this, there is no way around the Creation Kit. sorry about that.

[DonQuiWho]

 

 

18 hours ago, donkeywho said:

Meantime, I'll try your mod again on a game with defeat installed, and with the player set essential turned too, so to fall back on the health measure, and see if that affects the way your mod works in the same way as The Dragoness says she has seen  But I've ONLY tested it on NPCs. not the player, and I don't know exactly what she has done

 

Next test on NPCs

 

OK, I added Defeat - this version ...

 

             SxLab Defeat v5.3.5 fixed - Eng 180903 Bane Version Defeat v535 Fixed 030918 (+Bane fixes v2) (+ restored all rest eng strings 24.09.2018) ESP

 

..... to my test game and it all worked just fine. 

 

I have XPMSE and Realistic Ragdolls in force active in the game

 

I tried the player being set as

 

non essential, only health settings

non essential, health settings and Stun settings, stamina settting ignored

and then

Essential, with health, stamina and stun all off

 

So help me, everything worked just fine! ?

 

The only other difference that I can think of between this test game and the games that are borked is that they have, or have had, active

 

Ragdoll Paralysis Redux, https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/83716

or

Flimsy Ragdolls - from LL

 

Maybe these add an additional effect on death that doesn't then clear when it should, giving the corpses, or in the case of HSH, the HSH paralysed NPCs, that bit of extra 'bounce' which then fails to clear properly if the effect is not removed properly from the actor NPC

 

Anyway, your mod seems to be OK.  I'm really really sorry if I ended up wasting your time

 

================

 

Of less consequence, but I promised I'd try and give you some info on which NPCs were in play....

 

They were all in two Merged mods

 

One merge contained the follower included with the female Heimskr replacer

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/71396

 

From the other merge,

 

Two came from

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/83859

 

One came from

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/80021

 

I have no idea which mod the other test subjects came from as some of those mods that were merged have been withdrawn from Nexus

 

==================

 

Again, many thanks for producing a great mod which does something that seems to have defied the efforts of all those who went before

[Pamatronic]

1 hour ago, donkeywho said:

SxLab Defeat v5.3.5 fixed - Eng 180903 Bane Version Defeat v535 Fixed 030918 (+Bane fixes v2) (+ restored all rest eng strings 24.09.2018) ESP

Yup, that seems to be the solution. Just tested it myself and it works just Fine.

 

For the Physics:

I´m pretty sure thats the fault of the Original Defeat version, rather than any other mod. I also don't think its linked to paralysis.

With the Original Defeat version, I had physic glitches the moment i just touched the Rope.

 

Thank you for finding this, i´m gonna add a note on that on the File-page

(everyone who doesn't want to go back there, you can find the working version here: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/19941-sexlab-defeat/page/505/

 

I´ll take a look into the NPC´s, but i think it boils down to the individual NPC in the End.

Tested it with vanilla ones and they all died just fine.

[NicoleDragoness]

3 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

Unfortunately for something like this, there is no way around the Creation Kit. sorry about that.

What about the mod "Cell Builder" placing all parts and action triggers of the gallows as "placeable furniture" into its database?

[Pamatronic]

2 hours ago, NicoleDragoness said:

What about the mod "Cell Builder"

You need to attach scripts to the Gallow and the triggers, as well as set references between them. Cell builder cannot do that, i´m afraid.

Those functions are pretty straightforward within the Creation kit, so i would recommend just learning that. its nowhere as difficult as people think.

[NIND (jimmyyu)]

OH MY GOD YES ITS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE

[whatsoldier]

What about the gallow on the other side of the road? When I try to hang someone there the victim seems to stand on an invisible platform and doesn't die after activating the wheel? The other gallow works just fine.

[Pamatronic]

Oh, that's just a leftover from early testing, which i forgot to remove. Ignore it.

[DonQuiWho]

3 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

Oh, that's just a leftover from early testing, which i forgot to remove. Ignore it.

I liked that one!  I could leave followers there to just hang out for a while  ?

 

If I ever manage to get round to making CK work for me - and probably more importantly, me actually understand properly how to use it - I'd been hoping to make a row of those in my player home.  Like a sort of collection of living mannequins.  Peace and tranquillity to prevail whilst you could get on with other things.  Or a spell for a sort of 'temporary parking spot' ....

 

I'll get my coat ...

[theanarchistotaku]

great way to get rid of pahe slaves if im bored with them

[sacredfire]

Do I have to use the Creation Kit to turn off that death timer?

[Nepro]

How can I get it to work with CBBE 3BBB 

It has collision issue at the end of hanging scene.

https://streamable.com/w39buq

[Virtualbom]

where is this option ?? how do i find it

[Pamatronic]

All option are implemented as script properties.

which means, you have to use the Creation kit to change them. @sacredfire

I have uploaded an esp for the nonlethal mode on the mod description page.

(No one reads that far apparently)

[Pamatronic]

6 hours ago, Nepro said:

How can I get it to work with CBBE 3BBB 

It has collision issue at the end of hanging scene.

This works fine with 3BBB.

The bug in your video is caused by using the wrong version of sexlab defeat.

 

(seriously guys, read the mod description! this issue and its solution is listed there)

[DonQuiWho]

6 hours ago, Pamatronic said:

This works fine with 3BBB.

The bug in your video is caused by using the wrong version of sexlab defeat.

 

(seriously guys, read the mod description! this issue and its solution is listed there)

@Pamatronic   

 

Sorry I missed this point earlier, but before it all gets bedded down in Skyrim holy writ, the similar bugs I got on hanging were in games that had the SAME version of Defeat as the game in which everything worked well, immediately after adding Defeat. 

 

It might be worth asking @Nepro to confirm which version of Defeat he may be using and also for a load order?  I'd certainly be curious to see if there was anything in his that was common to those of my borked games

[Pamatronic]

when changing sexlab versions, you might need a clean save. Got the Issue when hanging the player when using older saves.

Clean saves worked.

As for your follower Problem:

There is some script attached to your follower (as seen by the dying notification and the redressing). This cannot be caused by the gallow and i cant remember ever seing this behavior when using defeat earlier.

 

Problem for Nepro might be, that there propably isnt a fixed version for SSE

 

[Pamatronic]

@donkeywho

Just tested it myself with Defeat enabled and that very same Veena character you were using in your video (apparently from SRX followers). everything worked fine.

Went over the scripts from Defeat again and there is NOTHING in there which interferes with the followers OnDeath() Event.

 

I´m absolutely sure you have some follower mod enabled, which interferes with the Deathevent.

That SRX mod for example comes with a script called "falltodeathragdoll". There is no sourcecode included, so i cant tell what it does, but it might be an indicator. It didnt seem to be attached to anything in the current AIO release, but maybee you are using an older version, which has this still enabled.

 

From everything i have seen so far, im absolutely convinced that follower-related problems are Not connected to defeat.

 

 

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, Pamatronic said:

@donkeywho

Just tested it myself with Defeat enabled and that very same Veena character you were using in your video (apparently from SRX followers). everything worked fine.

Went over the scripts from Defeat again and there is NOTHING in there which interferes with the followers OnDeath() Event.

 

I´m absolutely sure you have some follower mod enabled, which interferes with the Deathevent.

That SRX mod for example comes with a script called "falltodeathragdoll". There is no sourcecode included, so i cant tell what it does, but it might be an indicator. It didnt seem to be attached to anything in the current AIO release, but maybee you are using an older version, which has this still enabled.

 

From everything i have seen so far, im absolutely convinced that follower-related problems are Not connected to defeat.

 

 

That's good to know!!!! 

 

I'm now even more convinced that my problems are ragdoll related.    I'll have to try taking that one mod out somehow and see if it makes a difference

 

tyvm for your persistence.  I really appreciate that