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1 hour ago, Durante said:

For one it would not give errors due to missing dependencies. And since SLAX would already be there it would handle all the functions anyhow.

 

There is no problem, except that you're not supposed to use both and SLAR is used by the majority of mods here.

It's the exact same name as SLA, there shouldn't be any errors.

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52 minutes ago, Stryker1177 said:

This popped up, after loading a saved game. 20190925091136_1.jpg.2c3ae01235877a00d0eb734613bb2e64.jpgNot sure if its an issue or not.

From what I am seeing, it shouldn't be an issue. As it's just a warning and doesn't actually stop anything from functioning.

 

Edit:  I take that back, it might be an issue. If you're using a mod manager that places files directly into the skyrim directory, you should go in and remove all SLA files, ESM and pex scripts, then try reinstalling.

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Guest AthenaESIV

Really love the feature list of this mod, your file submissions are always really well thought out and work awesome!

 

Could you build in support for BakaFactory's version of SLA? It ties into his other mods for additional features. https://drive.google.com/file/d/114RS5tS9B7az2i-DI6tJyyCFyQLZcYqO/view

 

Not sure how much code he added in tbh but just thought I would mention it. Thanks for the mod!

 

EDIT: NVM just saw Baka's post above mine, lol.

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1 hour ago, Harry Smackmeat said:

I'm glad to see more optimization and expansion is being done on SLAR.

 

It's one of those mods I could never bring myself to remove, even tho i'm using it with Frostfall, and RND, Hunterborn, Sexlab Adventures, Bathing, Requiem, Wintersun, PAHE with AYGAS, SOS in like 4 flavors, OSEX, Bruma, and MCG.

 

...overkill? o_o

Konfuzius says: "It's not overkill as long as it works."

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22 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

What would you prefer from arousal in gameplay terms to make it better?

I don't mean what simulation would you use. I mean what outcomes do you believe would be most fun?

I don't fully grasp the distinction you're making, but I'll give it a shot.  I'm afraid though that these probably qualify as simulations, but in gameplay terms I'd like to see:

 

Bug fixes for things that should arouse vs. things that should not (SLAX might have already done this).  I've noticed that PC arousal often spikes after combat.  I assume that it's from the "nudity" of naked corpses.  Unless someone has a necrophilia thing, that shouldn't happen. 

 

Gender preference based arousal, at least for the PC but ideally for NPCs too.  A lesbian (pref = female, not both) should not be aroused by seeing naked men.

 

A basic level of situational awareness when setting NPC base arousal.  A tavern is a merry place with lowered inhibitions.  Base arousal there would be higher.  Someone doing hard labor (farming, mining, or wood cutting) might have reduced arousal from fatigue.  This could be as simplistic as checking location keywords for inns, farms, or mines.

 

A way to recognize a lover.  This could be handled by letting the player designate lovers in the MCM, or a formula based on relationship > 0 and several sexual encounters.  Leaving it up to the player is manual but more reliable.  Arousal should increase when lovers see each other, even when clothed, but more so of course when nude.

 

Recognition of prostitution.  SLA's model says that the more sex you're having, the more of a sex addict you are.  But prostitution sex is not good sex.  It should be shoving the time factor way down, not up.  Detecting every mod with a prostitution feature is not practical, but letting the player designate prostitution outfits would be.

 

Rape (when the victim flag is set) is bad sex.  Unless the character is a masochist or in one of those pain loving factions, sexual desire should be flatlined for a good time. 

 

Controls to affect how arousing the PC is to NPCs.  As I understand it, the SLA model is that nothing happens if the PC is clothed (and the EroticArmor keyword only works for NPCs as far as can see).  I'd like NPCs to gain arousal merely by seeing the PC.  With SLA I've had to force that by designating every outfit that the PC wears as "naked", a terrible solution but it does work.  I'd really like a slider to set how much arousal is gained per time interval for NPCs who see the PC.  This probably counts as "simulation", but I like to use increasing arousal as peril.  The longer the PC remains in an area, the more risky it becomes.  There's got to be a better way than marking all my outfits as naked, and a slider lets the player decide how fast NPC arousal increases.  Whatever the reason, whether it's an exceptionally attractive PC or a "weak girl" who looks vulnerable, when NPCs see her they start having certain thoughts, even if the PC is modestly dressed.

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I think this is a very arbitrary problem to solve and address. A raw number representing arousal is, imo at least, not too useful for PC. I don't find arousal management to be fun nor useful nor do I think a simulation of arousal behavior is necessary. I feel like this is less what this mod should do for the player and more of what this mod should do so other mods can hook into.

 

There are mods that trigger events base on PC's arousal; some of them are kind of...cute? Like the arouse idle and the blushing/dripping while aroused mod which mostly function as visual gags, supplementary perhaps. Some approach/dialog mods might pick up on PC's arousal state and delivery some dialogs and events, but I think those need a little more fleshing out. There might be some that deals in forcing dialog option/events on the PC base on arousal, but I don't know if they truly earn they keep in taking away player's control. Again I don't think arousal management is fun, so if arousal somehow ended up becoming something player is to be mindful of rather trying to avoid or hit a certain sweet spot, that's becoming an issue. By extension I am concern of a sex addiction function especially if it relies heavily on an arousal number.

 

The whole DD = arousal up is something that has irks me for a long time. I like the asset the suite of mods provide, but I don't think equipping any of its devices should automatically lead to being horny.

 

NPC arousal however I believe is a very valuable function. At the very least it serves as a pseudo random trigger where arousing situations will lead to NPC more likely to do X while those who have their needs satisfy will not immediately start another event. But I don't think we need a comprehensive profile on each NPC's affinity and kinks. The tools to enable that for quest, sure, but I think an set of overall general settings would be enough.

 

Which lead us to what I think this mod should address if we are keeping a similar format with SLA, some of which others have mention:

Sex preferences, so nakedness of the same sex doesn't always causes arousal gain. Toggleable of course to satisfy different NPCs' roles need.

Different arousal behavior for male and female, NPCs, followers, and PC or at least something different for follower. Maybe it is a huge ask, but I don't think there is an one size fits all solution. Followers are constantly influenced by PC and vice versa (nudity, sexy armor, etc.), sometimes you might want to tone down or spice up certain something?

Aggressive sex should give an arousal penalty. Unless keyword/quest/event specified.

An reasonable "resting" state for arousal and the upper limits should not be achievable unless induced e.g. there should be differences between feeling horny while walking around than a vibrating gem going off.

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5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

SLAX might have already done this

The current upload is really just a demo of the keywords, tags and faction for modders to work with.

It is also a perfectly good replacement for SLA, but it doesn't change any of the major SLA algorithms, just implementation details.

It also has a flaw in how naked vs non-naked scans interact, but I've known about that for weeks.

 

I made the current upload version weeks ago, and Monoman convinced me not to upload it, but on consideration I think it's worth having it out there so people can get some idea of the faction system and also take advantage of the working armor/clothing tags right away.

 

I've come up with a plan to evolve this version into what I want to get to, in nice comfortable steps that will allow relatively frequent updates. I think that will work out better than a "big bang" release.

 

The existing update drops into a game that already has SLA or SLAR installed and works, without requiring a new game, and I'll try and maintain that situation for as long as I can.

 

 

5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Bug fixes for things that should arouse vs. things that should not

If you have more examples of things that seem to arouse when they should not, please raise them.

I will look into the corpse thing. A check that actors aren't dead seems logical.

 

5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Gender preference based arousal

That's in my design... The "fetish" system means you get aroused by thing the character is fixated on. Some characters may not care about gender but may care about rubber. Most will care a lot about gender.

 

5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

A way to recognize a lover.

I had this in my to-do list, but I think the answer lies in the existing Skyrim relationship system - it just needs taking into account.

 

5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Recognition of prostitution.  SLA's model says that the more sex you're having, the more of a sex addict you are.  But prostitution sex is not good sex.

I wish we had a way to detect prostitution sex. I can provide a way, but then solicitation mods would need to use it. It would require patches for those mods. It's possible. I'd like it too, though the other answer may be to write a new prostitution mod instead.

 

6 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Rape (when the victim flag is set) is bad sex.

This is definitely handled explicitly. Victim flag means unhappy time, unless you enable slave training option on a character. Even then it's still unhappy time at first, but eventually their will breaks and they can be trained with forced orgasms.

 

6 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Controls to affect how arousing the PC is to NPCs.

This is handled in the faction system that describes information about all sex actors.

 

To what extent you'll be able to configure in the MCM, I'm not sure, but definitely to some extent. Some factions may require dependent mods to really make them work. I'd like to have a plugin system so mods can hook in too, but that might be a bit too clever for its own good.

 

 

The fetish and addiction system for the PC is the same system for the NPCs. They too will have their personal quirks.

 

Sexy and Slooty outfits can have a rank from 1 to 100 - this is already in the uploaded version.

 

 

Finally:

6 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I don't fully grasp the distinction you're making,

What I'm looking for is results you want rather than ideas to get to them.

 

If you want NPCs to react to the player's outfit, that's a result. If you want them to become more or less aroused based on the PC's breast size, that's a result.

 

If you want the PC to never get aroused while wearing a belt, that's a result.

 

However, if you want a slider to control how much DD plugs impact your character, that's more of an implementation detail, and I'd rather people not bog down in that right now. I want to validate my design choices against expectations. I'm not interested in designs or mathematical models to get certain results right now because I'm still at a point where I want to know what results I'm aiming for, and now exactly how to get them. I do have a design, and I want some confidence it's flexible enough to cover all the bases.

 

The fetish system allows me to add new fetishes gradually, release by release, so to start, you'll just have gender, nakedness and clothes, and work from there.

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5 hours ago, afa said:

I think this is a very arbitrary problem to solve and address. A raw number representing arousal is, imo at least, not too useful for PC.

Certainly a good point. I totally agree. Alas, SLA sent us down this path, and all the mods we have now are warped around the gravity of that simplistic model.

 

The faction system, which provides both a kind of lightweight sexual fame, and a description of sexual preferences and appearance allow other ways for a mod to interrogate an actor for sex-life data. SexLab currently tracks some stats, but they are hard to draw any conclusions from.

 

 

5 hours ago, afa said:

nor do I think a simulation of arousal behavior is necessary

Exactly, and that's why I'm asking about the outcomes people want, not the simulation that creates them.

 

However, I think I will/must still have a simulation of a sort, because it does serve certain purposes, and some existing mods will be more fun if you can play an arousal management game; they were intended to be played that way. Also, some people fixate on the simulation aspect, and get their fun that way.

 

I sort of like the idea that if I play Slaverun, and stuff is done to my character, not only do I get to watch that, but my character's options change because of it in ways that are emergent as well as scripted directly into Slaverun.

 

 

5 hours ago, afa said:

Some approach/dialog mods might pick up on PC's arousal state and delivery some dialogs and events

This is an area I want to develop in another mod, but I want more variation in arousal than SLA gave me (which was pegged at 100 most of the time, in practice).

 

 

5 hours ago, afa said:

I don't think equipping any of its devices should automatically lead to being horny.

Actually, right now, this really only happens with plugs and some piercings, which is not too silly.

 

However, I want to let the player select fetishes for their character, or allow them to gain them through play, and in that case perhaps mere bondage could be arousing, but it's not universal, it's only for characters set up that way.

 

But I guess overall what I'm aiming for is to let you choose how much or how little you have of that sort of thing.

 

 

5 hours ago, afa said:

I don't think we need a comprehensive profile on each NPC's affinity and kinks.

It's easier to have one, because then the code for PC and NPC is the same.

It also allows the obsessive tweakers to set their NPCs up how they like, or for mods to create gradual shift in NPC behaviour.

There are a group of people who love NPC slave-training mods. I am not one of them, but I recognise their interest and feel they could be better served than they are.

 

5 hours ago, afa said:

Which lead us to what I think this mod should address if we are keeping a similar format with SLA, some of which others have mention:

Sex preferences, so nakedness of the same sex doesn't always causes arousal gain. Toggleable of course to satisfy different NPCs' roles need.

Different arousal behavior for male and female, NPCs, followers, and PC or at least something different for follower. Maybe it is a huge ask, but I don't think there is an one size fits all solution. Followers are constantly influenced by PC and vice versa (nudity, sexy armor, etc.), sometimes you might want to tone down or spice up certain something?

Aggressive sex should give an arousal penalty. Unless keyword/quest/event specified.

An reasonable "resting" state for arousal and the upper limits should not be achievable unless induced e.g. there should be differences between feeling horny while walking around than a vibrating gem going off.

A good list.

vlkSexLife had a serious go at all these.

 

SLA + SLSO actually does attempt all but one of these (the last one). It just doesn't get it quite right.

 

Each of these points, especially the last one, is on my list.

 

I want to make it so a normal character, who has a normal amount of sex, does not become a sex-crazed obsessive.

 

However, I still need to provide for the extreme sex-addicted characters too.

 

 

So far, feedback largely fits my expectations. My ideas aren't too far from what is wanted.

 

Does anyone have a wildly different perspective?

 

 

Also, if the player is trying to manage arousal, what tools could they be given beyond potions that make it go up or down, and a range of vibrating plugs and piercings?

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When it comes to things that probably shouldn't have you gain arousal, I know that speaking with many of the Daedra will rapidly increase it, as many are invisible actors who are technically naked (like Meridia, something I caught on to when I began their quest one time, went in fine and came out with almost maximum arousal).

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1 hour ago, Shade115 said:

When it comes to things that probably shouldn't have you gain arousal, I know that speaking with many of the Daedra will rapidly increase it, as many are invisible actors who are technically naked (like Meridia, something I caught on to when I began their quest one time, went in fine and came out with almost maximum arousal).

The simplest answer is probably race restriction, but that would break custom races.

 

I warrants further investigation. There should be something consistent and indicative that would allow such problem actors to be ruled out.

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19 hours ago, SkyLover37 said:

Edit:  I take that back, it might be an issue. If you're using a mod manager that places files directly into the skyrim directory, you should go in and remove all SLA files, ESM and pex scripts, then try reinstalling.

That message is an old SLA message that I kept in, because ... SLAX doesn't support such downgrades either.

 

As for why it shows up, I'm not sure. It shouldn't. It looks like an old SLA file has been retained, or something similar.

 

Mis-installation, I'd guess.

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20 hours ago, factoryclose said:

OMG, Thank you for this update. Can you do me a favor? I was going to add some global variables. Can you do it for me?

0008EDC4 sla_Appearance

0008EDC5 sla_BreastsScale

0008EDC6 sla_ButtocksScale

0008EDC7 sla_Muscular

0008EDC8 sla_Chubby

Globals you say?

 

Well... It's possible, but the idea is these sort of things would be in factions, which are just as easy to test in dialog conditions or script.

By putting them in factions they can work for everyone, not just the PC.

 

 

Could you explain what you want these for?

And the specific IDs suggest you already have a mod with these in...

 

 

If we have global mirroring of the factions for the PC only, which is the source of truth? Globals or factions?

I'd say it should be the factions, in which case you can't set the globals from the console and expect them to change.

 

There will be MCM support for such things eventually anyway.

 

 

Breast size can be obtained in various ways in a game already, but it's a bit of a crapshoot where to find it, and what it really means. Depending on the underlying bodyslide, a node value of 2.0 might be massive, or might be fried eggs.

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