Dragonborn In Distress

[mnchild]

I wonder  there is any way to disable deviously enslaved to approach during the abduction period of DID

[Ildon]

Is there some trick involved with making the milking addiction part of the mod work as described? I have it enabled, but I noticed after a few games that there was never any incident involving milk pumps or farmers/merchants being automatically triggered for release.

I'm sure the basic mechanics are working fine, as addiction and withdrawal both rise and fall as expected, yet nothing has ever been automatically triggered. Even when I intentionally pushed both addiction and withdrawal up to 100 for testing purposes, nothing along those lines happens. I see the related message in the middle of the screen, yet no interaction with pumps even when I camp out to them for days in a row.

Similarly, farmers and the general merchants have a new dialogue option where the player says that they need to use their milk pump, to which the NPC replies "Of course", but then... nothing happens. Additionally, camping out next to one for days also seems to trigger nothing special, no matter how high the addiction and withdrawal values get.

Is there something more to it that I am missing, or has my luck been so terrible during testing that even hanging out for weeks at high values has seen RNG laughing behind my back?

[MainMansrevenge]

I'm intriuged by this mod. I use Sexlab defeat. How would you say this is different?

[H0rnyH0rse]

Has anyone tried to convert this for SSE? The mod description looks interesting enough to look into installing LE again just so I can try it.

I have no idea about how to convert a mod unfortunately

[dashisiashi]

Doing anything after waking up from blackout/capture seems to cause me to crash. Kicking while handcuffed causes a crash 50% of the time, jumping always causes a crash, lockpicking maybe 25% of the time, pickpocketing, ect. 

[Seeker999]

I am currently using DiD in SSE straight out of the box, w/o converting anything. As far as I can tell, it seems to be working fine, though I don't usually have addiction enabled. I haven't tried DiD in Oldrim, but haven't seen anything in game different from anything discussed in this thread.

[H0rnyH0rse]

7 hours ago, Seeker999 said:

I am currently using DiD in SSE straight out of the box, w/o converting anything. As far as I can tell, it seems to be working fine, though I don't usually have addiction enabled. I haven't tried DiD in Oldrim, but haven't seen anything in game different from anything discussed in this thread.

Thanks for the response! I suppose I am going to give it s shot then.

[LinksSword]

i cannot find the milk pumps added by this mod. are they not there by default? 

[Rogwar002]

15 hours ago, LinksSword said:

i cannot find the milk pumps added by this mod. are they not there by default? 

The milk pumps are part of MME (=Milk Mod Economy). If you use DiD in combination with MME, ask a farmer for a milk pump and it will show on his ground to help your little cow titties get bigger

If you are not using MME: no milk pumps for you.

[LinksSword]

3 hours ago, Rogwar002 said:

The milk pumps are part of MME (=Milk Mod Economy). If you use DiD in combination with MME, ask a farmer for a milk pump and it will show on his ground to help your little cow titties get bigger

If you are not using MME: no milk pumps for you.

nvm i think i was just blind and couldn't find the milk pump around whiterun..

[Lupine00]

I know this mod is in a sort of limbo, due to plans to rewrite it again, however I'm still using it...

 

I have some thoughts on my experiences that might help in any rewrite.

 

Though the defeat is serving a purpose, I'm getting more fun/value from the addictions.

 

 

The defeats are not as satisfactory, though there are aspects of defeat that I find useful:

Spoiler

The best part of the defeat is the "second wind", which does a lot to prevent bogus mis-captures, where you defeat the enemies as they knock you down: they are dead, it stops that "you're alive, but you're captured anyway" problem... There are still some issues with it though, as sometimes you will trigger it just as a fight ends, then the mod never recognizes the fight end, and it doesn't clear until you win the next fight - which has extra peril. I don't hate this, it adds a little extra danger to those fights. The problem is more that the next fight might sometimes be a very long time in the future, which happens with certain quests and dungeons because you go straight to town after the tough boss-fight you nearly lost.

 

 

The broader issue with defeat is that when it happens, it's basically an enslavement mod, but it wasn't built to be one, and thus doesn't do it well.

This is largely a point of view, but the difference between this and Defeat+DAYMOYL handing into SD+ (for example) is not all that big in terms of practical results.

Both produce a situation where you're stuck in out in a dungeon/wilderness, with limitations on what you can do, and need to get back to a city.

And both add a "master" that follows you about and occasionally rapes you.

 

Of the two mods, the SD+ enslavement is the richer experience, presumably because it is trying to be an enslavement experience, and DiD isn't.

 

The fix for this? I guess you have to decide whether you want to make a more interesting enslavement, or make the defeat less like an enslavement.

Those paths lead in opposite directions.

 

 

In terms of specific experience, here's what I tend to find happens in my game... Not sure if this is working as intended...

Spoiler

On defeat, I let the rapes complete and then will awake, shocked and immobile (over encumbered), almost always with a yoke applied. Sometimes another device.

I drop items or hand them to the follower until I'm able to move, and then set my movement mode to walk rather than run.

I then set off walking home.

The captor simply follows.

While he will punish me once for leaving his dungeon with a rape, he will still keep following, and so I slowly shuffle my way back to a town.

It works consistently in situations where you aren't imprisoned in a cell, and minimizes the trauma as much as possible.

The captor gives up following once I get into a city.

 

This is quicker/more reliable than fighting the captor, because I'd have to wait to recover to do that. I may as well just spend that time walking.

 

 

Follower handling is unreliable. The follower will usually have dialog about getting up, but is rarely knocked down.

In most cases, they stand around uselessly, grinning like an idiot, as you are raped.

 

 

I often choose to reload and restart rather than going through with the defeat outcome because there's no uncertainty about it.

If you are in heavy-bondage, you just walk slowly to town and that's is.

 

One problem is that legitimately escaping captors is very hard if you're traumatized into a mess. This leads to a defeat feedback loop that discourages escape attempts.

Another is that wearing a yoke basically blocks any possibility of fighting your way out, it's just impossible - you cannot fight - you are helpless.

DL escapes are ultra-hard because of stamina problems due to shock and trauma - made even worse by my Wear&Tear mod, which will usually be maxed at this point.

 

 

How could you improve the capture/enslavement path?

Spoiler

Don't try to handle it internally, or keep the internal version only as a fallback.

Allow hand-over to another mod.

SD+ for example would be very like the DiD experience, but more flexible.

 

Or put in a fade to black and "your captors trade you to slavers..." And go to SS, or fade to black and simply go straight to the SS outcome.

 

In some cases you could use DF, but it would take extra work to make the NPC into a valid follower ... but for bandits or other playable races, it could work. It works from SS, and the enslavement in DF is ... tough. If you have both regular and deal enslavement, it's probably not that different from game-over unless you set up DF to be easy (which you certainly can).

 

 

However if you wanted to make it less of an enslavement, something more like the SL Kidnapped mechanics might be a way...

Spoiler

Perhaps the trauma mechanics are a problem in this respect?

Coming back to SL Kidnapped ... the faster and more decisively you act the better in that mod ... this is good, it encourages action.

In SLK, usually, you can spring up and massacre the captors. That's probably better than hours of dull imprisonment or walking in a yoke.

 

But losing the meaning of trauma would spoil the addiction mechanics, which are interesting.

So, a change needs to cope with that.

 

 

Perhaps you can achieve both... Basically, re-purpose the shock mechanic.

 

So... when you are "in shock" you are immune to trauma drawbacks - in fact, you may even be buffed with extra health and stamina due to your "numbness" induced by a massive overload of adrenaline. Thus, your best time to move against captors is in the immediate aftermath of rapes.

 

Similarly, if you have DL, escape from devices could be made easier during the shock period, both due to extra stamina, and maybe due to an intentional difficulty modifier due to "desperation"?

 

Another helper here ... you could make captors start out by using weak restraints - start out with rope bindings for example, instead of going straight to the heavy yoke.

Escape those restraints, and on recapture you're upgraded to cuffs, with each repeat and failure, another upgrades: better cuffs, then a rope armbinder, then a yoke ... or something like that...

 

...So you aren't faced with a situation where escape is impossible right away.

Link the upgrade of restraints to rescue chance, so rescue gets more likely if you're genuinely helpless.

 

 

Maybe you could make an option, so people can play it how they like, with slavery handoff or not, and either positive or negative shock?

[DonQuiWho]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I know this mod is in a sort of limbo, due to plans to rewrite it again, however I'm still using it...

 

I have some thoughts on my experiences that might help in any rewrite.

 

Though the defeat is serving a purpose, I'm getting more fun/value from the addictions.

 

 

The defeats are not as satisfactory, though there are aspects of defeat that I find useful:

  Hide contents

The best part of the defeat is the "second wind", which does a lot to prevent bogus mis-captures, where you defeat the enemies as they knock you down: they are dead, it stops that "you're alive, but you're captured anyway" problem... There are still some issues with it though, as sometimes you will trigger it just as a fight ends, then the mod never recognizes the fight end, and it doesn't clear until you win the next fight - which has extra peril. I don't hate this, it adds a little extra danger to those fights. The problem is more that the next fight might sometimes be a very long time in the future, which happens with certain quests and dungeons because you go straight to town after the tough boss-fight you nearly lost.

 

 

The broader issue with defeat is that when it happens, it's basically an enslavement mod, but it wasn't built to be one, and thus doesn't do it well.

This is largely a point of view, but the difference between this and Defeat+DAYMOYL handing into SD+ (for example) is not all that big in terms of practical results.

Both produce a situation where you're stuck in out in a dungeon/wilderness, with limitations on what you can do, and need to get back to a city.

And both add a "master" that follows you about and occasionally rapes you.

 

Of the two mods, the SD+ enslavement is the richer experience, presumably because it is trying to be an enslavement experience, and DiD isn't.

 

The fix for this? I guess you have to decide whether you want to make a more interesting enslavement, or make the defeat less like an enslavement.

Those paths lead in opposite directions.

 

 

In terms of specific experience, here's what I tend to find happens in my game... Not sure if this is working as intended...

  Hide contents

On defeat, I let the rapes complete and then will awake, shocked and immobile (over encumbered), almost always with a yoke applied. Sometimes another device.

I drop items or hand them to the follower until I'm able to move, and then set my movement mode to walk rather than run.

I then set off walking home.

The captor simply follows.

While he will punish me once for leaving his dungeon with a rape, he will still keep following, and so I slowly shuffle my way back to a town.

It works consistently in situations where you aren't imprisoned in a cell, and minimizes the trauma as much as possible.

The captor gives up following once I get into a city.

 

This is quicker/more reliable than fighting the captor, because I'd have to wait to recover to do that. I may as well just spend that time walking.

 

 

Follower handling is unreliable. The follower will usually have dialog about getting up, but is rarely knocked down.

In most cases, they stand around uselessly, grinning like an idiot, as you are raped.

 

 

I often choose to reload and restart rather than going through with the defeat outcome because there's no uncertainty about it.

If you are in heavy-bondage, you just walk slowly to town and that's is.

 

One problem is that legitimately escaping captors is very hard if you're traumatized into a mess. This leads to a defeat feedback loop that discourages escape attempts.

Another is that wearing a yoke basically blocks any possibility of fighting your way out, it's just impossible - you cannot fight - you are helpless.

DL escapes are ultra-hard because of stamina problems due to shock and trauma - made even worse by my Wear&Tear mod, which will usually be maxed at this point.

 

 

How could you improve the capture/enslavement path?

  Hide contents

Don't try to handle it internally, or keep the internal version only as a fallback.

Allow hand-over to another mod.

SD+ for example would be very like the DiD experience, but more flexible.

 

Or put in a fade to black and "your captors trade you to slavers..." And go to SS, or fade to black and simply go straight to the SS outcome.

 

In some cases you could use DF, but it would take extra work to make the NPC into a valid follower ... but for bandits or other playable races, it could work. It works from SS, and the enslavement in DF is ... tough. If you have both regular and deal enslavement, it's probably not that different from game-over unless you set up DF to be easy (which you certainly can).

 

 

However if you wanted to make it less of an enslavement, something more like the SL Kidnapped mechanics might be a way...

  Hide contents

Perhaps the trauma mechanics are a problem in this respect?

Coming back to SL Kidnapped ... the faster and more decisively you act the better in that mod ... this is good, it encourages action.

In SLK, usually, you can spring up and massacre the captors. That's probably better than hours of dull imprisonment or walking in a yoke.

 

But losing the meaning of trauma would spoil the addiction mechanics, which are interesting.

So, a change needs to cope with that.

 

 

Perhaps you can achieve both... Basically, re-purpose the shock mechanic.

 

So... when you are "in shock" you are immune to trauma drawbacks - in fact, you may even be buffed with extra health and stamina due to your "numbness" induced by a massive overload of adrenaline. Thus, your best time to move against captors is in the immediate aftermath of rapes.

 

Similarly, if you have DL, escape from devices could be made easier during the shock period, both due to extra stamina, and maybe due to an intentional difficulty modifier due to "desperation"?

 

Another helper here ... you could make captors start out by using weak restraints - start out with rope bindings for example, instead of going straight to the heavy yoke.

Escape those restraints, and on recapture you're upgraded to cuffs, with each repeat and failure, another upgrades: better cuffs, then a rope armbinder, then a yoke ... or something like that...

 

...So you aren't faced with a situation where escape is impossible right away.

Link the upgrade of restraints to rescue chance, so rescue gets more likely if you're genuinely helpless.

 

 

Maybe you could make an option, so people can play it how they like, with slavery handoff or not, and either positive or negative shock?

@Lupine00

 

Can you say which version you are using pls?  I'd quite like to try this again, but I'm a bit behind in keeping up to date with what's the best current option

 

I really liked the defeat components of this mod, if not so much the 'addictions' etc, 

 

Escaping from the captor was very challenging, but I agree that a little variation on the basic escape method would, as you have pointed out, have been a nice touch

 

I always play with one or maybe two followers, so I really found the present handling of followers to be a right turn off.  If they can't be incorporated to play well in the escape, as I think I suggested previously, it would be better if they were just palmed off somewhere else until you got back on track. 

 

For a bit of added spice, a t/f to 'Caged Followers' or something like that might do.  For jam on the cake, a built in timed side quest to rescue them from one of Pamatronics Gallows, before they were hanged and you lost all their loot/inventory etc would make for a really interesting game, especially if you have two followers, each held at different ends of Skyrim.  Can you save one?  Who do you choose?  etc 

 

I'm really looking forward to trying out whatever @Code Serpent does come up with, as the basics he has make for a really interesting variation on classic 'Defeat', particularly as his 'enslavement' component creates a much more inherent need 'for you to play the game', as opposed to 'letting the game play you'

 

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, donkeywho said:

Can you say which version you are using pls?

2.04 - according to the change list, this differs only from 2.05 in that it lacks the uninstall button.

[DonQuiWho]

48 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

2.04 - according to the change list, this differs only from 2.05 in that it lacks the uninstall button.

Thanks

[Code Serpent]

Just so everyone is aware. I've stopped following this topic some weeks ago, so I can focus on developing the mod I want to make, rather than trying to accommodate everyone else's idea. Not trying to bash anyone's suggestions here, I just want to think for myself when developing this for a while.

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, Code Serpent said:

Just so everyone is aware. I've stopped following this topic some weeks ago, so I can focus on developing the mod I want to make, rather than trying to accommodate everyone else's idea. Not trying to bash anyone's suggestions here, I just want to think for myself when developing this for a while.

Fine.  Not a problem. 

 

Still looking forward to it. 

 

And any subliminal influence we can add, well, good things can always  come from unexpected places ....  

[Lupine00]

17 hours ago, donkeywho said:

Escaping from the captor was very challenging

In some versions it could easily be completely impossible.

You would stack up more and more trauma, have everything stolen, and accumulate completely overwhelming restraints.

The only solution was to quit and reload an earlier save, somewhat negating the point of a defeat mod, maybe.

This was fixed though.

 

In the newer versions it has become a little strange, as I detailed.

You can simply walk away, slowly, with a high level of success.

Or you can attempt something else, which usually leaves you in a worse position than before.

The slow walk home is the best course, quicker than waiting for rescue, or attempting a violent escape or escape through speed - which will most likely fail because of trauma, SLS, or whatever mods you have.

 

I'd be quite surprised if either of those two outcomes are Code Serpent's dream for a new mod.

 

 

But whether or not you call it:

11 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

trying to accommodate everyone else's idea

or not ... having a clear idea whether you are creating a slavery mod by another name, or explicitly avoiding that, seems a worthwhile distinction to make, when approaching this task. You can argue it's a false binary, but that's missing an opportunity to simply ask the question: "is this an enslavement mod?" and follow on questions like, "is this a better enslavement mod than the ones that already exist?"

 

How you then resolve the matter is where thinking for yourself becomes the key. Discussion that can clarify that thought seems beneficial to me, but I guess some people hate it.

 

 

Forming a good question and basing your thinking around it is what leads to successful execution of goals. Lozeak asked the question, "How can I be enslaved without stopping playing Skyrim?" and that led to a mod. It didn't lead to perfect mod, but when suggestions arise, it's always there as a guide. When you consider implementing, does it agree with the previous answers to those questions? If not, why is it right to change now?

 

In contrast, SD+ doesn't really have a clearly expressed question underpinning its design. It have the objective of improving SD incrementally, and maybe SD did have a question, "How can we make non-con enslavement into an experience in Skyrim?" SD+ takes that question a little for granted, and the features lose focus as a result: it's a quest, it's a story, it's a journey of self-discovery, it's a bondage mod, it's a series of dynamic fetch quests, it's a follower mod, it's as succubus mod... and so on. If there's a focus there, it's not easy to pin down.

[Yurinator26]

On 5/31/2020 at 7:29 PM, MainMansrevenge said:

I'm intriuged by this mod. I use Sexlab defeat. How would you say this is different?

In Defeat you get abused, robbed and left for dead. In this you get captured, used, Bound and Gagged (Dependant on how you act) and have to be rescued or robbed blind and left for dead

 

 

[Yurinator26]

Is there are choice on what bonds are put on you? Will an option be included in the future?

[Kira shadowstep]

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

In some versions it could easily be completely impossible.

You would stack up more and more trauma, have everything stolen, and accumulate completely overwhelming restraints.

The only solution was to quit and reload an earlier save, somewhat negating the point of a defeat mod, maybe.

This was fixed though.

 

In the newer versions it has become a little strange, as I detailed.

You can simply walk away, slowly, with a high level of success.

Or you can attempt something else, which usually leaves you in a worse position than before.

The slow walk home is the best course, quicker than waiting for rescue, or attempting a violent escape or escape through speed - which will most likely fail because of trauma, SLS, or whatever mods you have.

 

I'd be quite surprised if either of those two outcomes are Code Serpent's dream for a new mod.

 

 

But whether or not you call it:

or not ... having a clear idea whether you are creating a slavery mod by another name, or explicitly avoiding that, seems a worthwhile distinction to make, when approaching this task. You can argue it's a false binary, but that's missing an opportunity to simply ask the question: "is this an enslavement mod?" and follow on questions like, "is this a better enslavement mod than the ones that already exist?"

 

How you then resolve the matter is where thinking for yourself becomes the key. Discussion that can clarify that thought seems beneficial to me, but I guess some people hate it.

 

 

Forming a good question and basing your thinking around it is what leads to successful execution of goals. Lozeak asked the question, "How can I be enslaved without stopping playing Skyrim?" and that led to a mod. It didn't lead to perfect mod, but when suggestions arise, it's always there as a guide. When you consider implementing, does it agree with the previous answers to those questions? If not, why is it right to change now?

 

In contrast, SD+ doesn't really have a clearly expressed question underpinning its design. It have the objective of improving SD incrementally, and maybe SD did have a question, "How can we make non-con enslavement into an experience in Skyrim?" SD+ takes that question a little for granted, and the features lose focus as a result: it's a quest, it's a story, it's a journey of self-discovery, it's a bondage mod, it's a series of dynamic fetch quests, it's a follower mod, it's as succubus mod... and so on. If there's a focus there, it's not easy to pin down.

It would be nice to have an enslavement mod that doesn't revolve around BDSM themes like SD+ though. 

On 6/21/2020 at 7:56 PM, Code Serpent said:

Just so everyone is aware. I've stopped following this topic some weeks ago, so I can focus on developing the mod I want to make, rather than trying to accommodate everyone else's idea. Not trying to bash anyone's suggestions here, I just want to think for myself when developing this for a while.

Wish you all the best. Your mods really are just a cut above the rest so I'm looking forward to what you come up with in the future.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Kira shadowstep said:

It would be nice to have an enslavement mod that doesn't revolve around BDSM themes like SD+ though. 

That's an intriguing point ... but ... what do you want from such a mod?

What would it look like?

 

Would it fit with the idea of capture and imprisonment by enemies?

Maybe it doesn't? In any case I'd still like to understand the idea better.

[Yurinator26]

Umm I don't know if it is a DiD bug or not but I couldn't surrender to the Haafingar Stormcloak camp for some reason. Is it a problem with the camps in the Wilderness?

[Kira shadowstep]

On 6/22/2020 at 11:18 PM, Lupine00 said:

That's an intriguing point ... but ... what do you want from such a mod?

What would it look like?

 

Would it fit with the idea of capture and imprisonment by enemies?

Maybe it doesn't? In any case I'd still like to understand the idea better.

I think a mod like DiD does it well enough already and just needs some refining. Being captured and held by a group of bandits as a sex slave who needs to escape is fine.

If someone wants something that focuses on master/slave dynamics, whipping, pleasing a master and becoming a slave in the terms of BDSM culture then SD+ would already be a fine mod for that.

But I think there are a lot of people who enjoy the aspect of being raped and captured but may not particularly enjoy the latex, whips and the domme/submissive dynamic of SD+ and I think this is a nice alternative to it.

As a result I personally think the current direction of the mod is great. 

[Lupine00]

17 minutes ago, Kira shadowstep said:

Being captured and held by a group of bandits as a sex slave who needs to escape is fine.

The scenario presented in one of Content Consumer's Alternate Starts: Bandit Honeypot is possibly a "better" version of that scenario, where the PC is effectively coerced into joining the bandits, and has to do the job of damsel-in-distress so they can perform ambushes. The PC (in the scenario) has managed to avoid becoming the sex toy of all the bandits by becoming the personal favorite of the boss, but the situation is unsustainable.

 

If you haven't played with it, you might want to give it a try as a curiosity. It feels like an unfinished experiment, but there were some fun ideas there, and no BDSM culture (as you describe it). The PC has the freedom of the bandit base and the goal is to acquire useful equipment to help you when you make your bid for freedom. Escaping the bandits is very easy, which is fine in the context of an alternate start.

[Kira shadowstep]

That sounds like a nice mod, although I prefer the idea that these things happen dynamically in the world rather than a setup for the start of the game.

In addition making an Alternative start where there's much more nuance in escaping is a lot easier than what DiD is doing. It would be almost impossible to go through every place a Player could be captured and alter it to make it as in depth as that. 

It would be nice to have other methods of escaping sure, such as seducing or reasoning with your captors, but does the mod really need that? I'm not so sure. 

I think in it's current context, DiD does a very good job with the idea that Bandits coming across a female hero may instead rape and enslave/capture her for their pleasure until they are done with her and cast her out into the wilderness with her items stolen.