SexLab Disparity

[Lupine00]

12 hours ago, Bound said:

OK, I can't find a specific SLAX thread, so I'll dump my thoughts on how I might have (tried) to build an Arousal mod if I wasn't lazy and if I could have figured out how to do it here.  Not sure all of it is even possible!

I think I have you covered  

I have a detailed design, formulae, constants, mechanics, tables of data, all that stuff.

It's pretty much got all your features, and more.

 

However, I can't deliver so much functionality all in one go. At least it's not practical to release that way.

I will have fundamentals in.

 

The core issue for me at the moment is SLSO. I completely rewrote the SLSO integration already, but that's just for the "legacy" arousal model.

 

I'd like to have arousal changes that SLAX makes feed back immediately into SLSO, and I need to go through SLSO itself in detail to establish if that's going to work, what calls its using, and whether I might have to patch it further to get the outcomes I want.

 

Supporting SLSO and non-SLSO scenarios makes extra work. If it wasn't for all the work in the widgets, I'd just do my own version of SLSO too, so you could rely on it being there  

But I don't think that's going to happen. I have enough to do as it is, and I've been pretty slack for a couple of weeks as the design process burned me out.

 

I have a lot of the core stuff working, but the next step is a big chunk of my (least) favorite task - MCM sliders - in this case for configuring your (or NPC) sexual preferences, and debugging all the addictions.

[DayTri]

6 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I think I have you covered  

I have a detailed design, formulae, constants, mechanics, tables of data, all that stuff.

It's pretty much got all your features, and more.

 

However, I can't deliver so much functionality all in one go. At least it's not practical to release that way.

I will have fundamentals in.

 

The core issue for me at the moment is SLSO. I completely rewrote the SLSO integration already, but that's just for the "legacy" arousal model.

 

I'd like to have arousal changes that SLAX makes feed back immediately into SLSO, and I need to go through SLSO itself in detail to establish if that's going to work, what calls its using, and whether I might have to patch it further to get the outcomes I want.

 

Supporting SLSO and non-SLSO scenarios makes extra work. If it wasn't for all the work in the widgets, I'd just do my own version of SLSO too, so you could rely on it being there  

But I don't think that's going to happen. I have enough to do as it is, and I've been pretty slack for a couple of weeks as the design process burned me out.

 

I have a lot of the core stuff working, but the next step is a big chunk of my (least) favorite task - MCM sliders - in this case for configuring your (or NPC) sexual preferences, and debugging all the addictions.

 

Lupine, I am making a mod (testing now, just need to make MCM) that:

 

- increases SLSO enjoyment bases on partner SOS size

- adds SLSO enjoyment for partners who have made player orgasm a lot before (tracked through faction) for "addiction" to specific partners

- Gives bonus enjoyment based on relationship rank of partner

 

How much of this is covered by SLAX already, and will SLAX need me to rewrite my mod? Mainly I ask because I am using functions Ed added to SLA, so I would need to edit if SLAX doesn't add that function as well

[Bound]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I think I have you covered  

I have a detailed design, formulae, constants, mechanics, tables of data, all that stuff.

It's pretty much got all your features, and more.

 

 

Awesome! The two issues hidden in that wall of text which I haven't seen discussed anywhere are forced orgasms/pleasure (training/breaking), and the interactions between chastity/denial, stimulation, arousal and addiction. Seems like they both hinge on detecting and acting on stimulation, which is largely hidden in animations or vaguely inferable from somehow guessing (or projecting) the "intent" of NPC actors in situations WAY outside of their original use cases. And then somehow getting SLSO, SL animations, and various random vanilla and custom NPC AI packages to magically discern when to apply pleasure to a victim in a sex scene. And I was stumped on both of those.

 

SLSO, in particular, seems like a tough case. I REALLY love the idea and the extra flavor it brings, but I just don't see how the NPC AI is going to keep up it's end, particularly in player as victim scenarios. It just feels jarringly wrong to have to win a mini game in order to experience the pleasure being forced on me against my will!

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, DayTri said:

How much of this is covered by SLAX already, and will SLAX need me to rewrite my mod? Mainly I ask because I am using functions Ed added to SLA, so I would need to edit if SLAX doesn't add that function as well

I don't want to modify SLSO enjoyment directly, but I do want to modify arousal levels during sex and have that feed back into SLSO consistently, reliably, and continually.

 

As SLSO orgasms occur due to a lot of left clicking  and an applicable sex skill, not (directly) due to characters being aroused, if your mod alters enjoyment, I think it's complimentary to SLAX and they will work nicely together.

 

SLAX provides some factions to represent general schlong size, and those will (eventually) reflect the underlying SoS size at the point that SLAX inits data on an actor (NPC or PC),

Those sizes are simple size bands (small, normal, large, huge) that SLAX uses to modify visual arousal for actors that like to look at big cocks.

 

SLAX won't use those sizes to modify enjoyment because my intent is not to modify SLSO enjoyment - unless I end up having to patch SLSO to make arousal updates work meaningfully or something.

 

There is no mechanic in SLAX for remembering specific partners, nor an addiction to a specific partner.

Addictions to other things yes, but not specific partners.

I avoided this deliberately, to leave space for relationship mods to handle it.

Relationship mods should probably do something to inform SLAX of the increased attraction.

Exposure events would be one way, but they are a bit of a blunt instrument. It depends on your mods update rate.

SLAX will support fully floating-point arousal, and arousal over 100 (while still appearing integer based with a 100 arousal cap to older mods).

So you could provide exposure of < 1.0 per event if you wanted not to be heavy handed with it.

 

SLAX deals extensively with consistent fetish dispositions with a wide range of planned support, but all its modifications are based on generic circumstances, like nakedness, sexy clothes, pregnancy, feet, obsession with certain creatures, pain, anal, etc. but not adoration for specific partners or masters. This fits how mods like Slaverun, SD+, DF, and Sex Slaves work. Adding extras on top is as simple as adding exposure when a dialog occurs, or a partner decides to strip or invite to sex, or simply on proximity, etc.

 

There is an option for gradually accumulating proximity arousal, and an option for controlling how fast it works, but its based on the generic attractions, fetishes and addictions.

 

SLAX has the same functions as the SLSO patch, for backward compatability, but I don't recommend them as the best way to interact with SLAX.

If you're aware it exists (numerous ways to find out) then you can call its extended methods instead.

 

Also I recommend not messing with time-rate under SLAX, as the responsive arousal model largely ignores it.

 

It will also support some new mod-events that you can use to update exposure. I haven't added any code for this yet, but it's trivial, so if you want to use that path I can give you a spec for it. Raising mod-events is more costly than calling a function in terms of how long they block your mod, so you might prefer simply to soft-dep normally.

[Lupine00]

20 hours ago, Bound said:

SLSO, in particular, seems like a tough case. I REALLY love the idea and the extra flavor it brings, but I just don't see how the NPC AI is going to keep up it's end, particularly in player as victim scenarios. It just feels jarringly wrong to have to win a mini game in order to experience the pleasure being forced on me against my will!

In a training scenario, the goal is usually going to be to try and reduce your enjoyment and not orgasm, so you don't get trained.

You are thus trying to win a mini game to avoid becoming an anal slut or whatever, and the aim will usually be to not orgasm.

Belts complicate this. If you are belted other factors come into play.

 

If you can do this consistently, then you can block the training process.

It's hard though. The PC has a pool of resistance, and how that gets used up varies whether you are set to slave mode or not (which is a PC choice).

This means you can choose the way in which you want to try and resist training in PC slavery.

 

For NPC slavery, you decide how your slaves will be trained and how hard it will be, it's a meta choice.

[Bound]

But with SLSO, if I don't click I don't orgasm so I can always win against being trained, right? And if DF or some other follower-as-dom mod were to add a D/s denial challenge game (don't you dare cum until I say you can!) it seems really hard to lose? Or am I misunderstanding SLSO? Or will SLAX radically alter how SLSO works?

 

I'm still in theory crafting mode here as I try to get my mods selected and set up with very limited time to spend at the gaming computer, so there is lots I'm missing that would probably be obvious if I could just see it in game.

[DayTri]

23 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

In a training scenario, the goal is usually going to be to try and reduce your enjoyment and not orgasm, so you don't get trained.

You are thus trying to win a mini game to avoid becoming an anal slut or whatever, and the aim will usually be to not orgasm.

Belts complicate this. If you are belted other factors come into play.

 

If you can do this consistently, then you can block the training process.

It's hard though. The PC has a pool of resistance, and how that gets used up varies whether you are set to slave mode or not (which is a PC choice).

This means you can choose the way in which you want to try and resist training in PC slavery.

 

For NPC slavery, you decide how your slaves will be trained and how hard it will be, it's a meta choice.

 

18 hours ago, Bound said:

But with SLSO, if I don't click I don't orgasm so I can always win against being trained, right? And if DF or some other follower-as-dom mod were to add a D/s denial challenge game (don't you dare cum until I say you can!) it seems really hard to lose? Or am I misunderstanding SLSO? Or will SLAX radically alter how SLSO works?

 

I'm still in theory crafting mode here as I try to get my mods selected and set up with very limited time to spend at the gaming computer, so there is lots I'm missing that would probably be obvious if I could just see it in game.

 

Well one way to make the mechanic work is changing arousal, because SLSO lets you add arousal to base enjoyment. With very high arousal you can definitely lose without clicking, same with very high lewd stat. So, spend resistance to reduce arousal could be one easy way.

 

EDIT: Spending resistance to reduce arousal is probably the best way to go, because then the mechanic also works for DD vibrations

 

SLSO also has an orgasm-forbidden flag. So SLAX could use that, spend X resistance to set orgasm forbidden flag, and unset when animation is finished.

[DayTri]

Another thing you could do is make an SLSO alternative, since if you're trying not to orgasm the game doesn't matter nearly as much (just right click a lot, not too much to do). You could totally avoid the widgets and use the same mod event SLSO uses so anything compatible with that will still be compatible with yours

[Lupine00]

22 hours ago, Bound said:

But with SLSO, if I don't click I don't orgasm so I can always win against being trained, right?

Not necessarily.

 

Currently, it is close to that, but that's something I want to change. So you will need to put in effort to drop your enjoyment.

 

It will depend on other factors too, such as your "integrity" value - resistance to training - and how much integrity damage the training is doing, how often you get into situations, etc.

The goal is to hold out long enough to regain some integrity, but if you're getting raped non-stop, that might be hard.

If you have pre-existing aversions or fetishes, they will make a difference.

 

Alas, there's only so much gameplay I can get out of pre-existing systems in SLSO, which uses two buttons and an extremely simple mechanic.

 

[Lupine00]

13 hours ago, DayTri said:

Well one way to make the mechanic work is changing arousal, because SLSO lets you add arousal to base enjoyment. With very high arousal you can definitely lose without clicking, same with very high lewd stat. So, spend resistance to reduce arousal could be one easy way.

Changing arousal is definitely what I intend to do, but I'm not 100% certain that SLSO recalculates based on arousal every update.

It might only read arousal initially, and after updating exposure - I can't remember about that - it's something I'll deal with shortly.

 

As for actively spending resistance ... an interesting idea ... but I'd probably need to create a resistance widget so you know what you're able to spend.

My existing resistance design doesn't work that way.

[DayTri]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Changing arousal is definitely what I intend to do, but I'm not 100% certain that SLSO recalculates based on arousal every update.

It might only read arousal initially, and after updating exposure - I can't remember about that - it's something I'll deal with shortly.

 

As for actively spending resistance ... an interesting idea ... but I'd probably need to create a resistance widget so you know what you're able to spend.

My existing resistance design doesn't work that way.

 

It updates it frequently

 

sslActorAlias (edited version from slso)

state animating

....

event OnUpdate()

...

        if CalculateFullEnjoyment() >= 100 && SeparateOrgasms && (RealTime[0] - LastOrgasm) > 10.0
            OrgasmEffect()
        endIf


...

endEvent

 

CalculateFullEnjoyment checks the sla arousal faction rank on the actor each time it's called.

[Tenri]

1 hour ago, DayTri said:

 

It updates it frequently

 

sslActorAlias (edited version from slso)

state animating

....

event OnUpdate()

...

        if CalculateFullEnjoyment() >= 100 && SeparateOrgasms && (RealTime[0] - LastOrgasm) > 10.0
            OrgasmEffect()
        endIf


...

endEvent

 

CalculateFullEnjoyment checks the sla arousal faction rank on the actor each time it's called.

In addition it also checks arousal in the BonusEnjoyment function that is called every time you "click a button" and regularly while animating.

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Tenri said:

In addition it also checks arousal in the BonusEnjoyment function that is called every time you "click a button" and regularly while animating.

That will be handy then.

[bob36512]

@Lupine00
Can you post a setup file for your disparity coniguration u mentioned (Addiction withdrawl of devices) ?
Setting it up in game takes ages because of sliders

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, bob36512 said:

Can you post a setup file for your disparity coniguration u mentioned (Addiction withdrawl of devices) ?

I sort of don't want to, because people will complain "this thing in your config file is stupid or unfair, or wrong, or not what I like."

My play config is always a work in progress. I put in test stuff, put in hacks to work around issues with mods that are annoying me, change things because I didn't realise how some mod would modify breast size, or weight.

 

For example, right now, SLD gives me bonus 700 carry weight. That stops a bunch of stupid mods making me freeze in place.

I limit what I carry voluntarily instead (don't go over 200).

 

Many people would go WTF, you made breast size over zero add 700 carry capacity.

 

 

The easy way to set your sliders up is incrementally. Don't do them all at once. Do them as you get put into relevant items.

Same with breasts or butt - don't set them up until you have some mod altering them in a serious way.

[bob36512]

I undersstand that.
The setup when i get them seems to be a solution.
There will still be much experimenting to do
 

[DarksideTinkerbell]

Question about Debuffs; in my set up on Arousal I have gone for the Nymphomaniac which means the higher my arousal the more centered and controlled I am (as I am so used to being constantly Horny) But this means I am addicted to this state so the lower my arousal the less I am able to concentrate on anything but the desire to raise my arousal (masturbate)
To do this on the Debuffs I have set "From" to like 30 and "to" to 0, then Skill drops and resistance to Masturbating, with the intention off the closer my Arousal is to 0 the higher my penalties are to Skills, and the more likely I am to stop everything and Masturbate to yeah try raise my Arousal. (Yes I realize that technically Masturbating will actually lower my Arousal, which does kinda suck, as I view it as kinda like, "I want to make myself horny, so lets play with myself..."

So do the debuffs work like that as well if "from" is set to a higher value than "to"?

[Tenri]

Yes. if from is higher, then from or more is 0% and to or less is 100% of the (de)buffs

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, DarksideTinkerbell said:

So do the debuffs work like that as well if "from" is set to a higher value than "to"?

Tenri answered it already.

 

I'll just add that it works like this: it always calculates the applied amount based on how far you through the range From ... To, and if To is less than From, then the applied amount still increases as you approach To, it just happens that the value is increasing.

 

Simplistically, it is calculated as Scale x Max(0, Min(1.0, (current - From) / (To - From)))

Actually there's another scale for the master slider, and then limits are applied.

 

This means that if you have a setup where To is less than From, (-ve sense) and you have any current value less than To, it will give you the full value of the modifier.

And if you are on the other side of the range (greater than From), it will always be a zero modifier.

 

The reverse applies if From .. To have a +ve sense, if you have a value less than From, then it will always be a 0 modifier, and if it's more than To, it will always be the full modifier.

 

 

But there is a special case: when From exactly equals To, then the range is considered to have a +ve sense.

This lets you use that value as a threshold. Less than the threshold, and the value is 0, greater than or equal to the threshold and the value is full.

This saves a lot of bother when setting threshold values, where you just want to trigger if the value reaches a certain amount.

 

But for worn items, it wouldn't be enough...

So some extra magic kicks in...

 

Because a worn time of 0 isn't either side of the threshold, it's dead on it... Originally, it would produce a full modifier.

This was inconvenient.

 

A helpful user suggested an improvement (sorry I can't remember who it was, Zaflis, Tenri?).

 

In the current version of SLD, if you have any "worn" item condition, it is always considered to have a modifier of 0 if you aren't wearing the item.

Plus, any "unworn" item condition is always considered to have a modifier of 0 if you are wearing the item.

 

This is an extra check for worn or not that means for simple worn or not worn tests you don't have to worry about moving the sliders off 0 at all.

 

[HexBolt8]

I'd like to simulate beatings by telling SLD that a number of beatings occurred.  Would you consider adding that, perhaps to the Debug page?  It could work in a similar manner to the Orgasms setting that lets the player tell SLD that extra orgasms occurred. 

 

Is there a way to have SLD check for clumsy events more frequently?  Even in a situation with the probability maxed, there's a significant interval with nothing happening.  I was looking at approximating a falling-down drunk situation but the PC stays on her feet too long. 

 

I love the organization and consistency of the mod's MCM.  Even with all the pages it's quick & easy to find and configure what I want.  Being able to set a hard lower limit for speed debuffs is fantastic.  And with SLD, I think I can get rid of Barefoot Realism.  Good stuff. ?

[donttouchmethere]

5 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

And with SLD, I think I can get rid of Barefoot Realism. 

good SLD promotion ?!

[Carven]

Качественная работа, ПРОВЕРЕННО.♌

[Lupine00]

14 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Is there a way to have SLD check for clumsy events more frequently?  Even in a situation with the probability maxed, there's a significant interval with nothing happening.  I was looking at approximating a falling-down drunk situation but the PC stays on her feet too long. 

 

If you set the update interval to 1 sec, and adjust your limits and multipliers so that the chance is maxed (1000), you will see an event fairly soon after the cooldown expires.

 

There is a cooldown timer to prevent these events firing over the top of each other, and it is the limiting factor in that situation.

 

The cooldowns for falling over/dropping stuff are 12.0 seconds outside of combat, and 6.0 inside of combat, and they use "real" seconds, not game time. So no matter the limit, you won't see events more often than that. It seems quite frequent, as the fall-over animation takes several seconds to play. Dropping weapons/spells would be frequent enough to make combat extremely difficult at 6.0 seconds.

At 1000, with 1 second updates, the event has a 17% chance per update, so after about 12 .. 15 seconds time it's very likely you'll have seen one.

With a 2 second update, it's checked less often, but the chance will be double. If you turn your updates up to 6 seconds or more, the chance (at 1000 limit) collapses to a certainty.

 

There is an extra multiplier for combat that makes it even more likely. I think it defaults to 10x or something (maybe 5x), but you can change it.

 

Of course, you need to set your debuffs up to give -1000.0 to see these frequencies. If the value is only -500.0 you'll see events half as often.

[HexBolt8]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

...

Ah!  Thank you very much for the explanation.  That helps.

 

I was messing around with this out of combat (longer cooldowns), and I didn't understand what reducing the update interval would do.  For some reason I was thinking that it only affected how often the PC's state is checked and updated, not how often events are tested.  Bad assumption on my part. 

 

If I wanted to add a drunken clumsy effect, will the upcoming Conditions feature allow testing for inebriation?

[Lupine00]

17 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

If I wanted to add a drunken clumsy effect, will the upcoming Conditions feature allow testing for inebriation?

That's not what I have in mind for Conditions.

 

My plan, when I finally stop fiddling about with SLAX, is, in this order:

 

• min-speed feature
• more modifiers, covering a few spots that are currently lacking

then, in uncertain order

 

• integrations with more mods, including needs mods - I might just do iNeed to start with
• Conditions

 

What are Conditions?

 

They are ways to create a derived modifier set that allows you to gate or scale one condition with another...

So you could set a modifier that only applied if breast size is > 3 and wearing heavy armor.

 

Once Conditions is done, I'll add integrations as an ongoing thing, incrementally adding support for this and that.