SexLab Disparity

[wfowfo]

I discovered this mod recently and liked it too much that it is one my essentials now.

However, is it possible to add visible cum to worn items for buffs/debuffs?

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, wfowfo said:

However, is it possible to add visible cum to worn items for buffs/debuffs?

Yes. It is, and it's something I want to do, and will almost certainly do in the next update phase, which will I'll be looking at after I've sorted out fixing support for follower mods in DFC.

[coffee addict]

Tried to use the recompiled files posted by Fish0 alongside the original esp. converted to SE. It seems to work - or at least I thought it would. I can configure everything in the menu - it even recognizes the mods it is supposed to have some sort of functionality with, but buffs and debuffs don't seem to work though... or at least they don't appear in the active effects menu (I think).

 

I didn't try this for long though so I might've just missed a setting or two in the gazillion mod menu's I have (or I just didn't have any mod effects that would've given any values with this mod). Is there still something that needs to be done in order to make the mod work in special edition?

[Yuni]

Oooooh, cumminess support like in SL Adventures. I will freakin' adore that.

It's already SEMI possible, if someone wants to use Funnybizness' worn cum items, but that's it. This mod is so funzies~
Also I think one of the other MME options doesn't put out the proper output again... I forget where. Tried your other patch, works great for fullness percentage. I'm very tired. I'll look into it more when I'm home again, freakin' complicated holidays

[Yuni]

Bug report: Something is very weird about melee damage, and instead of just saying "it doesn't work" like I used to, I did some testing.

 

(Change in health values confirmed using Console and highlighting a Paralyzed Goat, who was paralyzed with 'setav paralysis 1' for testing victimization)

Control Scenario: Iron Dagger. Damage with SPERG and currently skill level (level = 21): 4

I stab a Paralyzed Goat. 4 Damage.

 

Scenario 2: Iron Dagger. Skill level 21. THIS time, Disparity has my melee damage "debuff" set to -317 (ish) according to debug menu.

Item menu lists Iron Dagger as 4 damage.
Stab Paralyzed Goat. 4 Damage.

 

Scenario 3: Iron Dagger. Skill level 21. THIS time, Disparity has me set at a positive "Debuff", at a final value (after my partial Vaginal Wear levels), of 144.4, according to debug menu.

Item menu lists Iron Dagger as 135 Damage.

Stab Paralyzed Goat. Instakill. Now has -116 health.

 

Conclusion: Melee Damage 'debuff' only works when increasing player damage output, not when decreasing it.

 

Hypothesis 1: When I was messing with the Construction kit, way back in the day, I recall "reduced damage with weapon type X" to be a DIFFERENT function than "increased damage with weapon type X". I don't think setting "increase damage by X" to a negative number allows you to flip the "buff" from positive to (as the kit calls it) 'detrimental'. That might need to be a separate magical effect. I was putting enchantments on the cum-stain items from Funnybizness, and having Scent of Sex attach them after certain types of scenes triggered, as debuffs. Before your wonderful mod came along and gave me an easier way. ❤️

 

Hypothesis 2: See the "Detrimental effect" checkbox?
Are these magical effects stored as unsigned integers? Can they BE negative? or do they get rounded to 0 if they're negative on a "positive" effect?

https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Magic_Effect

 

To this day I can't get Melee Damage Down to properly work, and I am unsure why. I blamed SPERG at first, but this one might be in Disparity and fixable.

 

@Lupine00

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, Yuni said:

Conclusion: Melee Damage 'debuff' only works when increasing player damage output, not when decreasing it.

Likely so. Skyrim has these limitations. Some effects I have notes in the tooltips.

 

I mean to add a different way to modify damage that should work around this, but I don' t know how it will pan out. I think it should work.

I slow down attack rate to cripple melee myself.

 

 

[Yuni]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Likely so. Skyrim has these limitations. Some effects I have notes in the tooltips.

 

I mean to add a different way to modify damage that should work around this, but I don' t know how it will pan out. I think it should work.

I slow down attack rate to cripple melee myself.

 

 

Yeah. xD That's what I do as well, but it affects Unarmed for me because SPERG uses the "FIST" weapons for their unarmed combat. xD It's funny to me that we have the same methodology.

My best guess would be to just apply a different magical effect (with 'detrimental' checked) if the modifier value in the player's setup is negative. After all, given that the scaling on a given Buff or Debuff, only goes "from zero" "to amount" or "from amount" "to zero", so you shouldn't have to worry about needing to invert THAT category's negative/positive values... in theory.

[wfowfo]

Is it also possible to seperate worn items as for females and males? When using ''naked armor'' from sexlab arousal buffs/debuffs also apply to males although their armor are not skimpy.

[HexBolt8]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

15 hours ago, Yuni said:

Conclusion: Melee Damage 'debuff' only works when increasing player damage output, not when decreasing it.

Likely so. Skyrim has these limitations. Some effects I have notes in the tooltips.

Decreasing melee damage seems to work okay with the "other" Disparity mod.  I haven't tested it by stabbing goats, but the stated damage when highlighting a weapon in inventory definitely changes.  The implementation is strange, using the second actor value.  I'm not sure if it was a mistake or a quirk needed to get it to work right.

 

Spoiler

 

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Decreasing melee damage seems to work okay with the "other" Disparity mod.  I haven't tested it by stabbing goats, but the stated damage when highlighting a weapon in inventory definitely changes.  The implementation is strange, using the second actor value.  I'm not sure if it was a mistake or a quirk needed to get it to work right.

The thing is that I did test damage decrease, and it seemed to work for me... But I didn't go to the (presumably considerable) effort to track the ACTUAL damage values.

I'm not sure the values we read for weapons in the UI is always completely correct either.

 

I simply tried killing some bandits with a wicked dagger with the damage unmodified, increased, and decreased. When it was decreased, it seemed I needed about four hundred hits to kill a bandit. This made me think it was working, as the unmodified attacks killed the bandits with far fewer hits. I repeated many times with the Fort Greenwall bandits.

 

I admit this method was unscientific. Perhaps, without remembering, I did something to how damage modifiers work after that.

 

 

I think to test this properly I need to put an NPC into a special alias, give them an absurd amount of health, and then read off health changes on them when I hit them. It's a pain. There are various ways to modify damage, and I believe the perk will be completely reliable.

 

I was hoping to make some good progress on DF this weekend, so I can clear some quality time for SLD over Xmas, but it appears I have some horrible cold just now, and have little motivation to do anything other than lie in bed and watch rubbish on <insert overpriced streaming service that I pay for and never use>.

[HexBolt8]

Sorry about the cold, Lupine00.  I guess it's that time of year.

[Lupine00]

21 hours ago, Yuni said:

Control Scenario: Iron Dagger. Damage with SPERG and currently skill level (level = 21): 4

I stab a Paralyzed Goat. 4 Damage.

Thanks for testing this by the way. Much appreciated.

[Yuni]

Yeah, remember that you can click on someone in the console to just view their hitpoint value, with Sexlab installed. So you can see how much shit does. I picked a goat because he had NO armor, a bandit is wearing armor that could affect things... at least one possibility, I suppose.

[thepronpage]

Dear Lupine..

 

I couldn't find it mentioned before. May I ask how do I add items into the "killer heels" category? 

I am currently using Xinafay's pack of high heels, and they do not register as killer heels.

 

Thanks

[Lupine00]

56 minutes ago, thepronpage said:

I couldn't find it mentioned before. May I ask how do I add items into the "killer heels" category? 

I am currently using Xinafay's pack of high heels, and they do not register as killer heels.

SLAX can add them via the MCM.

You can also add the keyword with SLD alone, using Tes5Edit.

[legraf]

Two ideas for expansions:

 

1. Is it possible, on combat start, to make stat changes based on characteristics of the opponents?

 

I ask because of a comment from the DiD thread (I could just follow HexBolt8 around cheering his ideas)

 

On 12/18/2019 at 9:56 AM, HexBolt8 said:

But I can imagine a phobia system in which the trauma from a specific creature leads to a fear of those creatures that translates into a combat penalty against them.  The fear would gradually wear off over time, or more rapidly with each of those creatures that the PC defeats.

 

 

2. A buff/debuff I'd really like to be able to manipulate using many of the conditions in SLD is DF Resistance (and possibly other things such as Willpower regeneration through sleep, Max WIll, etc.).  Obviously, requiring DF is a nuisance for SLD - but if WIll & Resistance were defined by SLAX, even if unused without DF, that wouldn't add a requirement.  Oh, I see SLA is not a requirement for SLD, my mistake.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, legraf said:

1. Is it possible, on combat start, to make stat changes based on characteristics of the opponents?

It's possible, but unreliable. Papyrus doesn't always run when you want it to, so in some cases the changes might lag way behind.

Also, establishing your actual opponent is hard-ish.

 

Probably, the best approach it to wait for OnHit event, which SLD tracks anyway. So you only get the "phobia" if it hits you.

 

I don't really have the right MCM support at this time, so it's not quick to do though. It needs some thought.

 

 

4 hours ago, legraf said:

2. A buff/debuff I'd really like to be able to manipulate using many of the conditions in SLD is DF Resistance (and possibly other things such as Willpower regeneration through sleep, Max WIll, etc.).  Obviously, requiring DF is a nuisance for SLD - but if WIll & Resistance were defined by SLAX, even if unused without DF, that wouldn't add a requirement.  Oh, I see SLA is not a requirement for SLD, my mistake.

Yes. Those are on my list too. In some form. A way to have a floating modifier on those values is ... not as simple as it sounds. 

I'm also up against the wire in terms of space to add new modifiers before I have to do a major change to the MCM and do away with the double column layout so I can fit in more modifiers, so it would need to be one value at most. With "fatigue" coming in 2.07 I could see it being a modifier on that.

 

When I'm done with DF 2.07 I will go back to SLD and add the bunch of new modifiersI've been promising since the last release but kept getting distracted from.

I also want to handle some new inputs too, and DF willpower could easily be an input.

[legraf]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's possible, but unreliable. Papyrus doesn't always run when you want it to, so in some cases the changes might lag way behind.

Also, establishing your actual opponent is hard-ish.

 

Probably, the best approach it to wait for OnHit event, which SLD tracks anyway. So you only get the "phobia" if it hits you.

 

I don't really have the right MCM support at this time, so it's not quick to do though. It needs some thought.

Hmm.  That loses a little flavour (you don't get to see your various stat bars sink on entering combat with someone/something against which one is phobic), but it can achieve much of the same goal: I'm terrified of trolls, due to previous bad (or good, depending on point of view) experiences.  Each troll hit might do up to double damage as well as sapping magic and stamina, and the first hit might also drop my 1H, 2H, archery, and magic stats by an appropriate amount according to the strength of the phobia.  This makes facing an opponent that has crushed you in the past more difficult - not overly so at first, but multiple losses (or extended consequences after a loss) might build up the phobia to the point where you really have no choice but to run the next time a troll gets near.  Over time, perhaps accelerated by heavy drinking or other therapeutics, phobia diminish.

 

 

As someone recently posted - Nymra, I think - all of these sorts of effects would be far more immersive if there was immediate specific feedback, rather than just a bunch of numbers changing invisibly ("Oh gods, not trolls again!").  For me, that's something definitely missing from a number of "consequence" mods, but it can lead to clutter, and can also lag so much it doesn't necessarily work well.  Still, in principal, it would be great to know why I'm stumbling/falling, or slowed, or whatever.  "Ooh, I think I had too much..."   "The heroine shivers in the cold", etc.

 

There are often multiple effects at play, certainly in SLD, but occasional comments on the dominant effect leading to a consequence would be fun.  For 3 or 4 versions down the line....

 

 

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

Yes. Those are on my list too. In some form. A way to have a floating modifier on those values is ... not as simple as it sounds. 

I'm also up against the wire in terms of space to add new modifiers before I have to do a major change to the MCM and do away with the double column layout so I can fit in more modifiers, so it would need to be one value at most. With "fatigue" coming in 2.07 I could see it being a modifier on that.

 

When I'm done with DF 2.07 I will go back to SLD and add the bunch of new modifiersI've been promising since the last release but kept getting distracted from.

I also want to handle some new inputs too, and DF willpower could easily be an input.

 

Although I love the flexibility, I wonder if people are actually needing the double-column layout.  Do people need negative buffs or positive debuffs?  I suppose it does allow a more interesting range of values from a buff to a debuff on the same stat, but I've never used that feature myself.

 

To preserve the dual-column concept you could have an artificial limitation on each condition: no more than 10 buffs &/or 10 debuffs.  Than for each row you need 3 columns, the first being a menu to choose from all available modifications.  A bit slower and clumsier to set up the first time, but it also means less scrolling to see which buffs/debuffs one has set on a condition later.

 

[HexBolt8]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

13 hours ago, legraf said:

1. Is it possible, on combat start, to make stat changes based on characteristics of the opponents?

It's possible, but unreliable. Papyrus doesn't always run when you want it to, so in some cases the changes might lag way behind.

Also, establishing your actual opponent is hard-ish.

The Agent of Dibella blessing uses Combat Target to determine if the opponent is the opposite gender.  Would that work, or is that the thing you're saying is not so reliable?  Taking extra damage and dealing reduced damage would probably be enough against an opponent that the PC fears.  Actually, in my game I might try creating a permanent perk for that, something in the PC's background like a dread of spiders that will never be overcome. 

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Would that work, or is that the thing you're saying is not so reliable?

All those mods are unreliable. Any combat mod that isn't pure C++ has potential lag issues. Sometimes it's OK, and sometimes it goes wrong.

People don't always notice when it fails.

 

A OnHit event will usually be lagging at least a frame behind the actual hit before it starts to execute in Papyrus, and then the script system has to go though its list of Papyrus listeners, and run each one. Any one of those Papyrus functions may itself call a function that leads it to be descheduled and possibly not run again until next frame, or later.

 

If there's heavy load they may not run for several seconds. In the worst case you run out of memory and the whole thing crashes down in a (deleted) heap.

 

I'm not saying it can't work OK most of the time, but I'm wary of doing anything that can increase lag, or that is timing critical, especially during combat.

 

 

Combat target would probably be a good way to get the initial target, but then you'd want to track OnHit to see if a phobia inducing enemy hits you.

 

e.g.

 

Fight starts against Falmer.

You target a Falmer and start to hit them. NO PHOBIA

A spider, up on a platform, off to the side, starts spitting at you.

Spider poison hits. OnHit event detects spider, though you aren't targeting it - ARACHNOPHOBIA sets in.

 

Maybe being hit by something you aren't targeting is worse than targeting it - you benefit from addressing the phobia inducer ASAP?

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, legraf said:

As someone recently posted - Nymra, I think - all of these sorts of effects would be far more immersive if there was immediate specific feedback, rather than just a bunch of numbers changing invisibly ("Oh gods, not trolls again!").  For me, that's something definitely missing from a number of "consequence" mods, but it can lead to clutter, and can also lag so much it doesn't necessarily work well.  Still, in principal, it would be great to know why I'm stumbling/falling, or slowed, or whatever.  "Ooh, I think I had too much..."   "The heroine shivers in the cold", etc.

I had the same complaint about a lot of mods. Skooma Whore for example ... the effects lack feedback or immersion.

It was something that troubled me before I made SLD, and almost led to me not making it.

I wanted to focus on a mod that was the opposite, dialogue and content driven.

I had something like Troubles of Heroine in mind. That was the mod I wanted to be making.

I ended up here because I suspected that anyone that could write could make a mod like ToH, but nobody would ever make SLD if I didn't do it.

 

 

SLD is thus a mod built around something I hate - the invisible modification of numbers.

I added the visual effects to mitigate that, but it's obviously limited in what it can do.

 

Things like the trips and falls are clearly indicated, so I think that part works well. As does weapon dropping.

 

 

If phobia were a simple off/on all or nothing type of mechanic, or no more than two levels: MILD and SEVERE, then maybe it would be possible to put more indicators around it.

That doesn't fit so well in SLD - though I certainly had some facility for binary mechanics in mind for the Conditions system.

 

I think it could work like this...

In one of the modifier selection drop-downs, such as the one currently with Arousal and such in it, there are also "Phobia - MILD" and "Phobia - SEVERE" modifier sets.

The input to those sets is "number of hits". You can happily configure the modifier as a 0 to 0 range, so hits don't matter.

 

The assignment of phobias is another matter.

How do you get one?

How do you get rid of it?

 

And finally...

 

What visible indicators could there be that the PC is having a phobic response?

 

It has to be something pretty basic to have a chance of getting done.

 

 

Could this be extended further?

 

As well as addiction add MILD and SEVERE addiction modifier sets.

 

You could then gain something like Chaurus-plant sex addiction. Presumably you obtain that through repeated Chaurus plant rapes.

Underneath is a value that builds up with each rape, and thresholds are set for MILD and SEVERE. The value declines gradually over time.

 

Would phobias work like that?

 

Any time you enter bleedout, scan for enemies nearby and increase their phobia rating?

It's very do-able, but maybe too much work given my over-commitment and general laziness.

 

 

Maybe drive it only off rapes? That is simpler.

 

If you get an orgasm, you get addiction? If you don't, you get phobia? Only works for SLSO though, and horny characters are going to never get phobias.

Needs more ideas.

[HexBolt8]

57 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Maybe being hit by something you aren't targeting is worse than targeting it

I see where you're going with that.  I suppose it could vary with the individual and the phobia.  But to me, the worst fear is physical contact.  Some of this discussion came out of a phobia that might arise from a combat defeat and rape -- intimate physical contact.  Even setting that aside, I think it applies to real-life creature phobias: 

 

The spider on that wall might get close enough to touch me < 

The spider close to me might get on me <

It's on my shirt! <

It's on my bare skin!!!

 

Same for fear of being bitten by a dog.

 

The deadly threat of the Falmer at arm's reach outweighs the fear of the distant spider.  In fact, it's better that the spider stay over there and spit venom.  That's preferable to seeing it up close and being touched by those legs.  The combat penalties would only apply when you have to get close to the spider and truly face your fears.

 

By that thinking, On Hit could still be the way to go, but probably only if it's at melee range, close enough to touch you.

[HexBolt8]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

I think it could work like this...

In one of the modifier selection drop-downs, such as the one currently with Arousal and such in it, there are also "Phobia - MILD" and "Phobia - SEVERE" modifier sets.

Yes, this.  Don't make it too hard.

Quote

How do you get one?

Rapes.  Unfortunately that mostly leaves out male PCs.  It could be bleedouts, but it's a stretch to develop a phobia (or addiction) from a beat-down.

 

With SLSO, I like your idea that orgasms fuel addiction, otherwise it's a phobia.  For those without SLSO (I don't use it), an MCM toggle to set whether a rape feeds phobia or addiction.  That's a crude level of control, but players seem to favor one or the other.  It would work.  I think all of this should exclude "humans".  Either way, either a slider for number of "incidents" to get one, or a probability setting that's checked for each incident.

 

Quote

How do you get rid of it?

I'd like a way to set a permanent phobia or addiction, likely something from the PC's pre-game past.  The player is free to change that from Severe to Mild or from Mild to none at any time.  SLD can't possibly handle a character's personal struggle with that kind of problem and shouldn't try.  (I realize that a permanent debuff doesn't really fit SLD's model.  Perhaps this is wishful thinking on my part.  I love customizing a PC with special challenges and weaknesses.  But if you don't think it belongs here, then it doesn't belong.)

 

For an acquired phobia or addiction, a slider for number of kills of that creature to reduce the problem (severe to mild, or mild to gone).  Again this is quite crude, since slaying giants or dragons does not equate to killing spiders or draugr, but it's better than nothing.  I like the idea of facing a fear head-on to conquer it.  I don't think a phobia can really wear off over time.  The next time a troll or spider or whatever grabs you, you'll remember that time before and the memories will come flooding back.

 

Quote

What visible indicators could there be that the PC is having a phobic response?

How about an audible indicator, like a heartbeat and/or rapid breathing?  The default could be an audio file of Skyrim's low-health heartbeat with a faster tempo.  Players could easily override that with whatever they please.  If you want to get fancy, there could be one audible cue for when the phobia kicks in, and a separate looping one that plays as long as the PC is in combat with the feared creature.  Players could replace one or both with silent audio files if they dislike that sort of thing. 

 

Quote

It has to be something pretty basic to have a chance of getting done.

Yes.  Perfect is the enemy of good.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The deadly threat of the Falmer at arm's reach outweighs the fear of the distant spider.  In fact, it's better that the spider stay over there and spit venom.  That's preferable to seeing it up close and being touched by those legs.  The combat penalties would only apply when you have to get close to the spider and truly face your fears.

 

By that thinking, On Hit could still be the way to go, but probably only if it's at melee range, close enough to touch you.

Unless your phobia is of the venom, not the spider ... but I follow the point.

If I go to implement it, I'll probably just try and find what is most straightforward to do.

I already track OnHit. With combat target, the question is how it gets sampled ... timer or event ... need to start coding it to know.

I haven't looked in detail at combat events that might apply. Maybe others know?

 

I think the bigger question is how you acquire phobias and/or addictions.

 

It could be something like a slider for each:

 

Phobia added per-rape: <-10 to +100>

Addiction added per-orgasm: <-10 to +100>

 

Then the question is whether they are set per-creature-type - which probably people want.

The SLD way is to have a lot of sliders.

 

 

But details apart, is that a satisfactory mechanism?

Or does the mechanic for gaining phobias and addictions need to trigger of something less obvious?

 

For SLAX, I have a design for this that is more sophisticated, but this exact topic was something I wanted to address there ... and maybe that's the place I should implement the phobia and addiction tracking ... SLD could then use those values as inputs, as already suggested.

 

Some explanation in giant spoiler:

Spoiler

 

The SLAX approach allows events to be stacked up against a resistance value. You have to overcome that resistance before they have an effect.

The resistance comes from three sources: the PC's personal resistance, a default modifier to resist a particular source, and a scaled arousal value.

 

So, get raped by spiders, it's easy to resist addiction because you get a big resist bonus by default.

Get raped by chaurus plants, it's hard to resist addiction because you actually get a penalty to resist.

 

 

Returning to the stacking...

 

If you resist the first spider rape, then an accumulating modifier is stacked. This decreases over time back towards zero.

If you are raped by another spider, almost right away, the modifier adds on.

 

So it works like this (just an example, not real stats):

 

Let's imagine spiders are configured as not sexually addictive and tend to generate aversion.

 

Spider has (these apply against anyone):

Rape aversion modifier of -10

Rape addiction modifier of 15

Arousal scalar for aversion of +0.1

Arousal scalar for addiction of -0.2

 

PC has:

Aversion resist vs spider of 25.

Addiction resist vs spider of 50.

 

Actual Aversion to spider of 15

Actual Addiction to spider of -10

 

These stats are determined by the likes/dislikes you set up for the character at creation.

 

 

PC is raped by a spider, they have arousal 90 at the time.

 

Aversion resist: -10 + (90 * +0.1) + 25 = 15 + 9 = 24

Addiction resist: 15 + (90 * -0.2) + 50 = 15 - 18 + 50 = 47

 

The "attack value" is based on the event that occurs and are character specific, these events are things like:

rape

bound

drugged

group sex (per participant over first)

oral

anal

vaginal 

naked

The values for these depend on the character's setup stats too; and may themselves be addictive occurrences.

I'm trying to explain it in a simplified way here. So, for rape, the value depends on your rape aversion or addiction, which will also be modified by the event as a whole.

 

... you can see the SLAX plan is quite complex, and why I already had two shots at implementing it I wasn't happy with ...

 

All addictions and aversions are resolved "at once", and updated in a post-event update phase.

 

Let's imagine the PC has the following current values:

Rape aversion 25, rape addiction 0

Vaginal aversion -10, vaginal addiction 10.

Naked aversion 5, naked addiction 0

 

And we won't consider the PC bound, or drugged (though a spider could do those things, in its own way).

 

The PC is suffering a vaginal rape, while naked, by one spider. I don't know how the spider stripped her, but it did.

 

 

So the "attack value" is modified by:

Aversion: 25 -10 + 5 = +20

Addiction: 0 + 10 + 0 = +10

 

And the basic attack value for rapes is configured to:
Aversion: 20 (+20 modifier)

Addiction: 5 (+10 modifier)

 

For final attacks of:

40 vs 24 => 16 overflow-damage

15 vs 47 => 15 accumulating damage

 

The aversion is an instant "win", so the PC is going to gain more aversion, right away.

Each kind of event has its own modifier scalar, and they are multiplied together... will show shortly...

The addiction is not a win, 15 is less than 47. Instead the addiction accumulates.

 

When considering the "damage" we look at whether there was an orgasm or not, and the compiled configuration scalar.

For aversion we have set rape 1.2, vaginal 1.5, naked 1.1 so 1.2 * 1.5 * 1.1 = 1.98

For addiction we have rape 0.4, vaginal 1.5, naked 1.1 so 0.4 * 1.5 * 1.1 = 0.66

 

The result is that the PC takes 1.98 * 16 aversion damage vs spiders (the calculations and resistance for vaginal, rape and naked occur individually).

The PC takes 31.98 damage to their spider aversion, so

New aversion is 15 + 40 = 55

 

The PC accumulates 9.9 threat to spider addiction, which does nothing ... yet.

The PC's aversion resist was overwhelmed in one event, and so it remains unchanged.

 

 

So, let's assume another spider rape happens. Now the PC's arousal is 0, because they were just raped, and they didn't like it.

 

Aversion resist: -10 + (0 * +0.1) + 25 = 15

Addiction resist: 15 + (0 * -0.2) + 50 = 65

 

... except ... there is a lingering value from the addiction damage ... that is added onto this attack

Aversion attack = 40

Addiction attack = 15 + 10 = 25

 

The calculated attack values are the same as before:

Aversion attack result:  40 vs 15 => 25 overflow damage * 1.98 = 49.5

Addiction attack result:  25 vs 65 => 25 accumulating damage * 0.66 = 16.5

 

The poor PC now has an aversion to spiders of 55 + 50 = 105

 

Meanwhile addiction is unmodified, but the accumulated modifier is 27.

 

After three more attacks like that the PC is going to lose their addiction contest. They'll also have an aversion around 205 by this point assuming arousal stays at 0.

 

At the point the PC loses the addiction contest, they lose (number of contests required to accumulate a defeat) * (resistance loss-rate scale for spider addiction).

So, in this case, that's 5 * L.

Let's say L is configured to 0.5

The PC's spider addiction resist is reduced by 2.5, also the PC takes the entire accumulated hit against addiction (25 + 17 * 4) = 76 * 0.66 = 50

After five consecutive rapes, the PC now has 40 addiction to spider rapes.

 

However, if the PC had slept, or held out long enough before this happened, the accumulation would have been reset, and instead applied as a resistance gain.

 

 

There are more things in play here though...

 

Addiction and aversion have a slow decay rate (per item, such as spider, or rape).

Addictions cause arousal gain, which flow back into the system on subsequent events.

Resistances also tend back towards their original values, over time.

 

The final disposition is determined by addiction - aversion, so to determine how afraid the PC is or how aroused, we look at that total.

If the PC has more addiction than aversion, they'll gain arousal.

If the PC has more aversion than addiction, they'll lose arousal, and also have phobic effects.

 

The detail level is quite high, for example addiction to individual bondage types and materials is considered, such as addiction to ebonite bondage.

 

Most of the configuration would not be exposed in an MCM, as there are so many values, they basically sit in a spreadsheet. I'd probably add a CSV reader, as that would be better than JSON for this sort of data.

 

Per character resistance and starting addiction/aversion would be something that might be set in an MCM, at least for some common stats. Others would need to be set in additional mods that care about such values.

 

My reservations with this system are that there are a lot of values to configure and balance, though that is mainly a developer problem, most players could leave them alone unless they wanted to change something specific.

 

Secondly, it's hard to intuit outcomes.

 

Thirdly, it's (by design) unstable, and tends towards generating addictions or aversions.

I'm not sure this last is a problem. But if you don't want that to happen, you need to set the configuration scalars to low values so the rate of change is usually slower than the rate of recovery. There could be a global scale to make it easy to adjust that, and the same for the recovery rates.

 

Also, the oddity is that the way to lose resistance is to face a series of small challenges until they exhaust you.

If you hit a big challenge, it simply gives you aversion or addiction, but your resistance doesn't change.

I did consider an additional scalar set to allow for change from overwhelming events, but it seems these would usually be set very low anyway.

 

From an implementation point of view, the hard part was scanning all the applicable conditions. That was so expensive that it had to be pushed off into its own quest, responsible for nothing else but updating the applicable statuses on all nearby characters (PC and NPCs) in a measured and non-loading manner. That was not well addressed in my first attempt at implementing this.

 

Initially, I tried to have a sort of giant compound event that was considered either pleasant or unpleasant, and that drove outcomes for the different contributing factors. I still want that, I just need a way to do it that makes sense. As it is, there may be many events to resolve for a given sex-scene.

 

Also, there's a mechanic relating to orgasms, so you suffer addiction much worse on orgasm, aversion worse if no orgasm - that's done through variant configuration table sets. Believe it or not, what's here is a gross simplification. For example, there are conditions that play into event scaling that aren't in themselves addictive or repulsive, such as "wearing a blindfold", which magnifies the results of the contest. Also memory of recent events, such as recently whipped, or recently orgasmed, or recently drugged.

 

The problem here is that a simply system produces highly deterministic results. If you have a simplistic system, then you either have aversion or addiction as an almost inevitable outcome.

 

The complexity of the above system (in its full form, with adjustment scaled across different stages of the sex animation) and an additional stat called Integrity, which is fundamental to maintaining and gaining resistance.

 

Also, the system has two modes, slave mode and normal.

 

In slave mode, the tendency is to make it easier to develop addictions, and there's a mechanic for flipping extreme aversions into addictions based on overwhelming numbers of events. Also, a mechanic for handling Denial and its impacts ... Oh, and in Slave Mode, there's also a submission stat that is like an opposite to Integrity.

 

The idea is you set the mode either globally, or per character, but don't change it. Once you've made a character (or the PC) a potential slave, they have the capacity to gain Submission, and gaining that makes you addiction prone. Submission itself is supposed to represent the addiction to submitting, and could be used for driving dialogs etc.

 

I wanted to put all this stuff off until I get back to SLAX, and maybe have a big rethink of how it might work before moving forward. Also, getting an improved design that will let me do stuff in a piecemeal way, adding in features and complexity on a per-release basis.

[SkyAddiction]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

A OnHit event will usually be lagging at least a frame behind the actual hit before it starts to execute in Papyrus, and then the script system has to go though its list of Papyrus listeners, and run each one. Any one of those Papyrus functions may itself call a function that leads it to be descheduled and possibly not run again until next frame, or later.

 

If there's heavy load they may not run for several seconds. In the worst case you run out of memory and the whole thing crashes down in a (deleted) heap.

 

I'm not saying it can't work OK most of the time, but I'm wary of doing anything that can increase lag, or that is timing critical, especially during combat.

 

Oh my god, yes. Anything that adds to script load, visual overhead (usually ENBs, but even textures can push too hard here), or physics moves a build one step closer to having an intense concentration of the three breaking the game. And then? Most people have no idea what spaghettied their save. It's the one thing regarding function I've spent serious time considering in the event I actually get some of my mods out there.

 

Combat events look infinitely interesting, but I immensely appreciate your reluctance to engage with them. That's best left to defeat mods only.