SexLab Pheromones

[Tyrant99]

12 hours ago, Slorm said:

@Hugh Reckum

 

BOO, I'm back (I bet that frit ye)

Hey, WB! ?

[Slorm]

Quick fix for anyone updating and finding the import no longer working in a cleaned game.

 

It's caused by the MCM Follower Toggle appearing which seems to throw a wobbly with the json file (probably because the order is changed.

 

Easy fix: Load an older uncleaned game, the Follower Toggle will appear, set it to how you want and then export your settings, these will then import into your new cleaned game correctly

[Slorm]

Buggity Time

 

I've not been able to reproduce this one so far as it's also depends on the output from the RNG.

 

I had a message to say I had escaped my pursuers, I then shortly afterwards got a message to say the creature had infected me with the stronger pheromone even though I had never actually encountered it.

 

---

 

The combat check works well, I was been chased by a Hagraven then got into combat with a bandit and she promptly disappeared. Glad about that as they get a bit smelly. Can also confirm the quest doesn't fire at that point, not until there's an actual encounter that completes.

[Tyrant99]

25 minutes ago, Slorm said:

I had a message to say I had escaped my pursuers, I then shortly afterwards got a message to say the creature had infected me with the stronger pheromone even though I had never actually encountered it.

Nice catch, you're like a bug hunter extraordinaire!

 

I think I found it. That function was getting called in one kind of odd place, should be safe to swap this script.

 

SLPheromonesControlScript.pex

[Slorm]

Thanks Hugh I'll give it a try.

 

That one was pure serendipity, 

[ercramer69]

It might just be me but I seem to be having a problem with this mod and Beeing Female.  My character has the wolf pheromone and everything is working as it should, wolves chase me down and pseudo attack, both me and my follower get used by the wolves and then the blackout wolves gone, so absolutely no issue from this mod.

 

Except for the fact my character is pregnant and the only thing that has attacked and hit me since inception were the wolves pseudo attack, and while my character doesn't take any damage from the attacks I do see the baby takes damage icon appear and sure enough the unborn health drops with each pseudo attack.

 

If nobody else is having this issue then I'll play around with my load order but figured I'd check with the community before driving myself crazy with troubleshooting. 

[Tyrant99]

@ercramer69 I haven't used that Mod before so am not familiar with all of the mechanics of the fetus taking damage etc.

 

It might need some special compatibility built, depending on how it's implemented.

[Slorm]

Been using SP most of today and it's working perfectly (though haven't tested followers as I hate 'em). Tested that the thread cleanup is working, which it is dropping from 23 down to 3 so all is good.

 

For a future enhancement, though I don't know if it's even possible with the game engine. With Stealth enabled could the effect be shown once an encounter has taken place (as clearly the pc would know that summat's up) but keep hidden any that haven't as yet happened. The idea being that the pc would know a pheromone is in effect (until it clears) as she's just had experience of it but would know about any of the others until something happened. It would need to be repeatable so once a pheromone is cleared and taken again it remains hidden until the pc has some fun with it again

[Tyrant99]

1 hour ago, Slorm said:

Been using SP most of today and it's working perfectly (though haven't tested followers as I hate 'em). Tested that the thread cleanup is working, which it is dropping from 23 down to 3 so all is good.

 

For a future enhancement, though I don't know if it's even possible with the game engine. With Stealth enabled could the effect be shown once an encounter has taken place (as clearly the pc would know that summat's up) but keep hidden any that haven't as yet happened. The idea being that the pc would know a pheromone is in effect (until it clears) as she's just had experience of it but would know about any of the others until something happened. It would need to be repeatable so once a pheromone is cleared and taken again it remains hidden until the pc has some fun with it again

Let me see if I understand what you're asking...

 

Right now, stealth mode has everything always invisible, right? But you want specific ones to become visible after an encounter with a certain creature happens, and then go invisible again once the effect is cleared, so it wouldn't become visible on catching the effect again, but only on a subsequent creature attack. Did I get this right?

 

If this is the case, I can think of a way that maybe would work, but I'm a little skeptical about how well I could get it to work. Part of the problem is that I'm using SKSE functions to manipulate the magic effect flags, and they are already kind of wonky with how they get stored in memory. For instance, I already found that I need to refresh the function OnPlayerLoadGame and even OnInit to get things to work correctly because there is some weirdness with how they get stored in memory. (A toggled state can even persist through a new game it seems!)

 

Keep in mind, SKSE functions were never intended by Bethesda to be used in Papyrus, it's 'extra stuff' that mostly the SKSE team found by reverse engineering Skyrim binary. So, the functions can be quite powerful, but also may have some weird behavior.

 

I'm pretty sure that I could make it work 'initially' right after a creature attack, and have the flag reset after pheromones for that creature are cleared. - It should continue to work throughout a current play-session.

 

But, upon loading a save game if stealth mode is active once the game is loaded, I think things would revert to the 'stealth mode state' if it was toggled on in the MCM, and everything would disappear again... I think that I'd need to keep this feature intact to continue to resolve the wonky memory storage. So upon reloading a game, everything would all be a 'mystery' again, if stealth mode was active. If this sounds OK, I could probably make this happen.

[Hex Bolt]

A consideration on displaying pheromone effects after the first attack is that it would spoil the mystery of the time remaining.  Obviously you'd know at that point that you're affected, but depending on the areas you've been in lately some creature spawns might have been ineligible.  So you might have a lot of time left or just a little.  If you've activated stealth mode, do you really want to see how much time is left before you know that you're safe?  Just something to think about. 

[Tyrant99]

5 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

A consideration on displaying pheromone effects after the first attack is that it would spoil the mystery of the time remaining.  Obviously you'd know at that point that you're affected, but depending on the areas you've been in lately some creature spawns might have been ineligible.  So you might have a lot of time left or just a little.  If you've activated stealth mode, do you really want to see how much time is left before you know that you're safe?  Just something to think about. 

It would probably be best if it had its own MCM toggle, for instance a 'Show Effect After Attack in Stealth Mode', so there would be a togglable 'modified' stealth mode option.

 

I could see why some people may want this feature, but you're right, it probably isn't for everyone...

[Slorm]

Hmm, yes it is tricky and HexBolt8 also has a very good point, unfortunately it wouldn't be possible to hide the time but thinking about it maybe a different approach might work though.

 

Just to clarify let's say the pc get infected with skeever pheromone:

 

1/ No notification until an encounter with a skeever

2/ Pheromone wears off

3/ PC infected with skeever pheromone

3/ No notification until an encounter with a skeever

4/ Pheromone wears off etc., in effect each infection starts the process de novo

 

Now, I'm wondering if there's another way instead. How about a textbox on screen that uses a hotkey, that way the pc can check what is a known active pheromone and would also hide the time. In short hitting the hotkey would display currently known pheromone infections. It's a bit kludgey I know but might work if it's inpractical to use the SKSE approach

[Myth121]

I honestly love this mod, it's great and finally there is a way to get multiple creature animations to work without matchmaker.
That being said perhaps you could allow a better way to resist a creature attack though, playing a melee character in a dungeon can get annoying when you're in middle of a fight and suddenly a creature teleports behind you and you cant even try to fight back

[Tyrant99]

4 hours ago, Slorm said:

Now, I'm wondering if there's another way instead. How about a textbox on screen that uses a hotkey, that way the pc can check what is a known active pheromone and would also hide the time. In short hitting the hotkey would display currently known pheromone infections. It's a bit kludgey I know but might work if it's inpractical to use the SKSE approach

It could probably be done, but the preference is to not display the remaining duration in the text? I think it could be converted to a string and concatenated...

 

39 minutes ago, Myth121 said:

I honestly love this mod, it's great and finally there is a way to get multiple creature animations to work without matchmaker.
That being said perhaps you could allow a better way to resist a creature attack though, playing a melee character in a dungeon can get annoying when you're in middle of a fight and suddenly a creature teleports behind you and you cant even try to fight back

Right now it works off of radius, you could always increase the time between attacks or temporarily suspend the attacks if you don't want them in a certain dungeon. Or maybe reducing the radius enough would give you a fighting chance with certain weapons (longer 2 handers perhaps).

 

What kind of an alternative system would be good for melee? I could probably make an MCM option variation where it would trigger 'on hit' instead of by getting within a certain radius. Would that be fair? You could melee them as long you avoid getting hit.

[Hex Bolt]

32 minutes ago, Hugh Reckum said:

What kind of an alternative system would be good for melee? I could probably make an MCM option variation where it would trigger 'on hit' instead of by getting within a certain radius. Would that be fair?

I'm not the one who asked for it but I like this as an option.  It would also make the weaker creatures a bit less hazardous.

[Slorm]

42 minutes ago, Hugh Reckum said:

What kind of an alternative system would be good for melee? I could probably make an MCM option variation where it would trigger 'on hit' instead of by getting within a certain radius. Would that be fair? You could melee them as long you avoid getting hit.

 

I'm not sure that I'm understanding the problem here, but on two occasions where I've run into a combat situation the SP pursuing creature simply disappeared when combat triggered, so wasn't an issue

[Tyrant99]

6 minutes ago, Slorm said:

 

I'm not sure that I'm understanding the problem here, but on two occasions where I've run into a combat situation the SP pursuing creature simply disappeared when combat triggered, so wasn't an issue

Currently the SP creature starts sex when it gets within x distance to player. I was suggesting an alternate mode that could be activated where SP creature would start sex if one of them managed to successfully land a hit on the Player instead (distance wouldn't matter).

 

The idea is that maybe this would be fairer to Players that prefer melee. Currently, the creatures can only be fought off via ranged attacks.

[FusRoDah]

10 hours ago, Hugh Reckum said:

Currently the SP creature starts sex when it gets within x distance to player. I was suggesting an alternate mode that could be activated where SP creature would start sex if one of them managed to successfully land a hit on the Player instead (distance wouldn't matter).

 

The idea is that maybe this would be fairer to Players that prefer melee. Currently, the creatures can only be fought off via ranged attacks.

Good idea, I prefer a fighting chance.

"On hit", does that count if it's blocked or not? If not, being able to kill them before they get a single hit in would be very hard with the creatures that do pounce attacks, so it might as well be the old system. Could also take a health/stamina approach or chanced approach like other mods.

[Hex Bolt]

2 hours ago, FusRoDah said:

... being able to kill them before they get a single hit in would be very hard with the creatures that do pounce attacks, so it might as well be the old system. Could also take a health/stamina approach or chanced approach like other mods.

These are good points.  They indicate the difficulty the mod would have if it were to move in the direction of a combat defeat mod (creatures spawn in, player fights them, and loses if beaten down badly enough).  There's also the question of a male follower.  If this becomes a real combat, shouldn't that follower help you?  But if he does, the PC might be able to just run in circles and let the follower fight.  I had that happen yesterday, attacked by a riekling while Farkas just stood there.  I assumed he found the situation amusing (or hot), but if the PC were actually taking damage, I can't imagine him standing there while his shield sister gets stabbed. 

 

Having thought about this some more, the one hit proposal (or possibly a chance per hit, which would help the PC even more) seems like the best approach.  It improves somewhat over the distance-based sex trigger and it's simple.  Some creatures of course will have an advantage.  As FusRoDah noted, those that pounce will be hard to evade.  I think the variety of the challenge is good, though.  Get dosed with sabercat pheromones and you're in for a rough couple of days.  There's always the option to disallow creatures the player doesn't want in the mod's MCM (I've turned off a lot of them).  I'm sure that opinions on this will vary.  Just my 2 septims worth. 

[Tyrant99]

3 hours ago, FusRoDah said:

Good idea, I prefer a fighting chance.

"On hit", does that count if it's blocked or not? If not, being able to kill them before they get a single hit in would be very hard with the creatures that do pounce attacks, so it might as well be the old system. Could also take a health/stamina approach or chanced approach like other mods.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

These are good points.  They indicate the difficulty the mod would have if it were to move in the direction of a combat defeat mod (creatures spawn in, player fights them, and loses if beaten down badly enough).  There's also the question of a male follower.  If this becomes a real combat, shouldn't that follower help you?  But if he does, the PC might be able to just run in circles and let the follower fight.  I had that happen yesterday, attacked by a riekling while Farkas just stood there.  I assumed he found the situation amusing (or hot), but if the PC were actually taking damage, I can't imagine him standing there while his shield sister gets stabbed.

There are a few technical issues with implementing a 'real' combat system with spawned creatures that are somewhat counterproductive to some of the Mod's mechanics that have already been sorted out:

 

A few off the top of my head is addition to HexBolt's point:

• There's already a check to determine if Player is in combat and prevent sex attacks by despawning creatures. - This would no longer work.
  • If the Player was in combat with the spawned creatures and something else joined the fray, it would no longer be possible to catch and the Player or other creatures might die while in the sex scene.
• Low level Players would go back to dying very quickly vs certain creatures like Chaurus Reapers and Bull Netches.
• Creatures entering real combat behavior is a mess when it comes to having intended AI packages / scenes etc. work correctly.
• Allies to the Player or other Actors that have aggro behavior to 'help friends and allies' may continue attacking Creatures during sex scenes, possibly killing them and easily breaking the scene.

Some of the above is why I decided to spawn my own creatures in the first place instead of grabbing nearby creatures. With spawned creatures I can control factions, aggro radius behavior, base AI packages, the exact incoming damage (or lack of damage), among other things. + Certain features like the Mod's ability to modify creature speed, works a lot better on a non moving creature vs a moving creature.

 

Basically, everything is much more stable and consistent with my own spawned creatures because I can control everything that's happening more precisely compared to trying to use existing world creatures. That's why this Mod wasn't created as a creature 'combat defeat Mod' in the first place, not that those Mod's can't be done reasonably well, but there are also problems that are hard overcome due to the implicit chaos in the mechanics. And having very tight and consistent mechanics is especially important when implementing stuff like creature gangbangs, which are a big feature of this Mod.

 

Anyway, tldr: It'd be better to leverage the existing Mod's design mechanics to implement additional features. So adding a chance on hit using the current creature attack behavior would be preferential.

[Myth121]

On 11/11/2018 at 10:00 AM, Hugh Reckum said:

What kind of an alternative system would be good for melee? I could probably make an MCM option variation where it would trigger 'on hit' instead of by getting within a certain radius. Would that be fair? You could melee them as long you avoid getting hit.

A one hit requirement would be great, it gives you enough time to react. I dont think an entire combat system like one that would use health or stamina or variables like that is required cause that ruins the best part of this mod, which is gangbangs.

Alternatively a toggleable mcm message telling the player when the creatures spawn would also be fair since then the melee player can atleast prepare to repel her rapists 

[Stryker1177]

Just curious if it might be possible to have the spit attacks by Spiders or Chaurus infect you with pheromones?

[Slorm]

On 11/11/2018 at 7:08 PM, Hugh Reckum said:

Anyway, tldr: It'd be better to leverage the existing Mod's design mechanics to implement additional features. So adding a chance on hit using the current creature attack behavior would be preferential.

That sounds like it would work well with a MNC chance slider so the player can decide the level of risk, though tbh I'm not sure there's much point in setting it to 100% as it would in effect negate the purpose of SP with one hit to stop the scene.

 

Personally I found the shout Yol (Fire) quite efficacious, then run like the wind if it doesn't work

 

4 hours ago, Stryker1177 said:

Just curious if it might be possible to have the spit attacks by Spiders or Chaurus infect you with pheromones?

This might cause a conflict with Estrus Chaurus+. I currently have Chaurus turned off in SP to avoid the egg infection as it is

 

[Tyrant99]

9 hours ago, Stryker1177 said:

Just curious if it might be possible to have the spit attacks by Spiders or Chaurus infect you with pheromones?

It should already be possible, but yes, you might get lots of eggs if you are running Estrus Mods.

 

Projectiles count, so for instance getting hit with an arrow from a Draugr could get you Draugr Pheromones theoretically.

 

10 hours ago, Myth121 said:

A one hit requirement would be great, it gives you enough time to react. I dont think an entire combat system like one that would use health or stamina or variables like that is required cause that ruins the best part of this mod, which is gangbangs.

Alternatively a toggleable mcm message telling the player when the creatures spawn would also be fair since then the melee player can atleast prepare to repel her rapists 

 

5 hours ago, Slorm said:

That sounds like it would work well with a MNC chance slider so the player can decide the level of risk, though tbh I'm not sure there's much point in setting it to 100% as it would in effect negate the purpose of SP with one hit to stop the scene.

I got the mechanic working, but, it wasn't very satisfying with the existing AI packs. Creatures would only do limited attacks when they got close enough, the pathing was wonky, and the AI processing was slower than regular combat. After a fair amount of tinkering, I couldn't find a way to modify the AI packs to make them non-trivial, mostly due to too much combat delay and the AI not leveraging full behavior graphs for attacking.

 

But...

 

I switched the AI packs to conditional and am doing regular combat initiation instead when using the 'on hit' feature. The creatures will still do no damage, but they will go full out on the Player, using everything in their arsenal. This is a lot funner because the creatures will use magic attacks, melee attacks, ranged attacks etc. and grab any weapons they can find. A hit from any type of attack might end in a gangbang... So good luck once I get this released... lol

 

 

[Tyrant99]

I did some play testing and thought the combat mode was fairly fun.

 

I changed around some of the combat AI, so some Rieklings, Falmer, Draugr will prefer ranged combat or magic. Also gave them corresponding bows & arrows or spears to throw in their actor inventory. (Wouldn't want it to be too easy! )

 

Try giving them speed boosts if you really want to shit your pants...

 

Creatures in general should use their entire combat behavior graph, so it is much better than anything that could be accomplished with simple AI attack packages.

 

The one creature that I am pretty sure will not work with the new Combat Mode option is the Rabbit... Rabbits don't even have combat animations... (So there goes my Monty-Python inspired 'Blood-Thirsty Killer Rabbits Commit Unspeakable Atrocities as they Rampage Through Skyrim' Mod idea... ?)