sse Paradise Halls Enhanced (pahe) Special Edition with the customary addons

[Martok73]

@CliftonJD @Pfiffy Noticing a possible bug? maybe? Angi at Angi's camp doesn't have the dialog to bribe/recruit her as a prostitute, she has the dialog to propose yourself as a hooker to her, but does not have the dialog to pay her for sex nor bribe her into becoming a hooker. Tried/tested on a fresh character using the Angi's camp option under LAL, and with a current high level char save.

[Pfiffy]

7 hours ago, Martok73 said:

@CliftonJD @Pfiffy Noticing a possible bug? maybe? Angi at Angi's camp doesn't have the dialog to bribe/recruit her as a prostitute, she has the dialog to propose yourself as a hooker to her, but does not have the dialog to pay her for sex nor bribe her into becoming a hooker. Tried/tested on a fresh character using the Angi's camp option under LAL, and with a current high level char save.

The dialogues have a lot of restictions.... 

[Smutt11]

is enslave kinda consider killing the npc?

plan on enslave dawnguard at the end of vampire quest

[Antiope_Apollonia]

32 minutes ago, vassapol said:

is enslave kinda consider killing the npc?

Yes.  The cloning process first kills them, then spawns a new copy.

[CliftonJD]

15 hours ago, Martok73 said:

150 to 200 gold sounds pretty reasonable for a leash collar, and maybe 50-75 for a normal iron one? Just a thought, can't remember how much an imperial shield cost off the top of my head, lol.

that's what i figured as well, 50 is base price of the imperial shield so that looked nice. not sure how high 150 would get as base price so i figured if i dropped it to the iron armor base price of 125, should hit a fair market value

14 hours ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Don't mind me. I'm just quietly bitter that a feature I love is being removed lol

Adding the option to buy magic leashes is nice, Please don't remove the free respawning magic leash collars. Antiope already created a patch for people who don't like them

might be tempted to add that as an option, haven't decided anything concrete yet, but not fond of keeping the leash collars respawnable either

14 hours ago, Martok73 said:

@CliftonJD @Pfiffy Noticing a possible bug? maybe? Angi at Angi's camp doesn't have the dialog to bribe/recruit her as a prostitute, she has the dialog to propose yourself as a hooker to her, but does not have the dialog to pay her for sex nor bribe her into becoming a hooker. Tried/tested on a fresh character using the Angi's camp option under LAL, and with a current high level char save.

not seeing anything in her that should exclude her unless you get the same issue with other uniques as well, previous version of the slave patch had a bug in it that required you to have 3 random slaves as hookers before you could bribe any uniques

6 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

The dialogues have a lot of restictions.... 

dialogue correction in the main esp (forgot which dialogue it was) and the above listed dialogue bug in the slave patch for the 3 and 3 option:

 TDF20220530_v2 fix patch2.zip

for the older slave patch using all 6 hookers unconfigured, continue using the patch you already have, no update needed

 

mcm fix for independent hookers so all hookers are seen:

bb_tdfapconfigmenu.pex bb_tdfapconfigmenu.psc

Edited June 25, 2022 by CliftonJD

[Antiope_Apollonia]

43 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

that's what i figured as well, 50 is base price of the imperial shield so that looked nice. not sure how high 150 would get as base price so i figured if i dropped it to the iron armor base price of 125, should hit a fair market value

I would suggest basing the price on the crafting components, otherwise they become a crafting XP exploit.  (Crafting XP is determined by the price.)  Or, choose crafting components to justify the price you want.  

 

You can make them cheaper than their components, but you shouldn't make them much more expensive than the sum of the ingredients used to make them.  In vanilla content, extremely cost-effective recipes are around 2:1, finished product to components.  

 

As for how a base price relates to the actual price, NPCs sell items for 3.3x base price at 0 Speech, and 2x base price at 100 Speech.  Conversely, they buy items for 0.3x base price at 0 Speech and 0.5x base price at 100 Speech.

[CliftonJD]

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

As for how a base price relates to the actual price, NPCs sell items for 3.3x base price at 0 Speech, and 2x base price at 100 Speech.  Conversely, they buy items for 0.3x base price at 0 Speech and 0.5x base price at 100 Speech.

i remember in es4 they had speech setup so you could never get base price for selling your goods, but i do like the changes they made to es5 in that regard. between skill level and perks and enchantments, it is possible to get the full price for selling your goods until you reach the npc gold carry limit for vanilla npc's. some items that cost too much for the vendor also have a high enough value that selling to a vendor with more cash on hand won't give the full value of the item.

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I would suggest basing the price on the crafting components, otherwise they become a crafting XP exploit.  (Crafting XP is determined by the price.)  Or, choose crafting components to justify the price you want.  

 

You can make them cheaper than their components, but you shouldn't make them much more expensive than the sum of the ingredients used to make them.  In vanilla content, extremely cost-effective recipes are around 2:1, finished product to components.  

in that regard the filled common soul gem requirement exceeds the value of the leash collar. in that regard i don't like how skyrim handles filling the soulgems in es5. if a recipe requires a filled common soul gem in es5, only the kind bought or found pre-filled will fit the requirement, soulgems the player fills are still counted as the empty soulgem until you get to grand souls or black

 

edit:

on that note, it seems the "iron slave collar" was already set as an exploit using 2 iron ingots to get 150L slave collar. lowered the value down to 50 already, but still too high for only 2 iron...

[DonQuiWho]

2 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

 if a recipe requires a filled common soul gem in es5, only the kind bought or found pre-filled will fit the requirement, soulgems the player fills are still counted as the empty soulgem until you get to grand souls or black

 

I am going to find a corner in which to sit, and look at the floor, while my captured souls gently weep ..,

[Farsh-nuke]

2 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

I am going to find a corner in which to sit, and look at the floor, while my captured souls gently weep ..,

The thing is I can't disproive this because I always max out speech and alchemy so buying filled gems from the wizards is just easier for me

[Kalysto]

4 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

18 hours ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Don't mind me. I'm just quietly bitter that a feature I love is being removed lol

Adding the option to buy magic leashes is nice, Please don't remove the free respawning magic leash collars. Antiope already created a patch for people who don't like them

might be tempted to add that as an option, haven't decided anything concrete yet, but not fond of keeping the leash collars respawnable either

 

It seemed appropiate to me to change those items as owned by Farengar so that I have to steal them. A small inconvenience in exchange for not having to craft them.

[CliftonJD]

13 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

I am going to find a corner in which to sit, and look at the floor, while my captured souls gently weep ..,

lol, sounds like you're of the same opinion i am about the soul gems 

18 hours ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Don't mind me. I'm just quietly bitter that a feature I love is being removed lol

Adding the option to buy magic leashes is nice, Please don't remove the free respawning magic leash collars. Antiope already created a patch for people who don't like them

thinking i'll have them set to not-respawning as the new default with option included to respawn

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I would suggest basing the price on the crafting components, otherwise they become a crafting XP exploit.  (Crafting XP is determined by the price.)  Or, choose crafting components to justify the price you want.  

 

You can make them cheaper than their components, but you shouldn't make them much more expensive than the sum of the ingredients used to make them.  In vanilla content, extremely cost-effective recipes are around 2:1, finished product to components.  

 

As for how a base price relates to the actual price, NPCs sell items for 3.3x base price at 0 Speech, and 2x base price at 100 Speech.  Conversely, they buy items for 0.3x base price at 0 Speech and 0.5x base price at 100 Speech.

in light of this suggestion, i've adjusted the recipe and the value of the "iron slave collar" to match that of iron gauntlets. re-adjusting the leash collars next

19 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Haven't killed a mudcrab in so long forgot what they drop, lol. Sounds interesting, another possibility could be something like bone dust, or perhaps frostbite venom, just spitballing here since the early game main quest involves Bleak Falls Barrow and both bone dust and the spider stuff is readily available but for a low level char that hasn't used any cheats or exploits would still be a little challenging, perhaps.

 

150 to 200 gold sounds pretty reasonable for a leash collar, and maybe 50-75 for a normal iron one? Just a thought, can't remember how much an imperial shield cost off the top of my head, lol. Maybe even include the book to be able to craft the DD stuff for like 500g or something, give an alternative option to be able to get the book without having to touch the College of Winterhold. I know I would love that option personally as not every playthrough I do involves the college nor makes sense to involve them. Oh and should add the whip too, would make sense they would sell them along with collars I think.

thinking to replace the filled common soul gem requirement next so i'll think on some bone dust and frostbite venom, then recompute the new value

[CliftonJD]

5 minutes ago, Kalysto said:

 

It seemed appropiate to me to change those items as owned by Farengar so that I have to steal them. A small inconvenience in exchange for not having to craft them.

ohh, that's tempting 

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

thinking i'll have them set to not-respawning as the new default with option included to respawn

 

Yes!  A hit! A VERY palpable hit!

 

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

It seemed appropiate to me to change those items as owned by Farengar so that I have to steal them. A small inconvenience in exchange for not having to craft them.

 

ohh, that's tempting 

 

?! 

 

So for years, all my creeping in and nicking them was a waste of time?  I suppose I should have realised, when they didn't show up in the inventory as 'stolen' ? 

 

But it does justify my preferred wish to keep them, even if the frisson of sneak, steal, and creep out again, was so far all illusory

 

LMAO! 

 

I'm now really beginning to wonder if there maybe is something in this Early Onset Alz....thingyamijig

 

 

[CliftonJD]

1 minute ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

Yes!  A hit! A VERY palpable hit!

 

 

?! 

 

So for years, all my creeping in and nicking them was a waste of time?  I suppose I should have realised, when they didn't show up in the inventory as 'stolen' ? 

 

But it does justify my preferred wish to keep them, even if the frisson of sneak, steal, and creep out again, was so far all illusory

 

LMAO! 

 

I'm now really beginning to wonder if there maybe is something in this Early Onset Alz....thingyamijig

 

 

lol yes, several items on that desk are player owned already...or atleast they were. the new default is going to allow the player to take 1 of each item from the table, additional items are split between owned by nobody(usually gets owned by the location or it might stay unowned, not certain yet on this) and owned by farengar.

 

the respawning option will be have all of those items owned by farengar

[DonQuiWho]

2 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

lol yes, several items on that desk are player owned already...or atleast they were. the new default is going to allow the player to take 1 of each item from the table, additional items are split between owned by nobody(usually gets owned by the location or it might stay unowned, not certain yet on this) and owned by farengar.

 

the respawning option will be have all of those items owned by farengar

 

That sounds just great. 

 

Good to have a mod author who listens to their public ... ?

 

Take a bow ... ?????

[Martok73]

12 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

The dialogues have a lot of restictions.... 

Care to elaborate on that abit as I'm really confused now...

 

5 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

not seeing anything in her that should exclude her unless you get the same issue with other uniques as well, previous version of the slave patch had a bug in it that required you to have 3 random slaves as hookers before you could bribe any uniques

With the fresh char haven't gotten past Angi as of yet, so can't tell you if it affects other uniques or not. As for my older save and higher level char the option all the uniques I've looked at so far have had the dialog option after going thru the "make money with your body" tree.

 

5 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

dialogue correction in the main esp (forgot which dialogue it was) and the above listed dialogue bug in the slave patch for the 3 and 3 option:

  TDF20220530_v2 fix patch2.zip 104.96 kB · 1 download

for the older slave patch using all 6 hookers unconfigured, continue using the patch you already have, no update needed

I'm using the file you gave me a little while back, iirc you said it had the 3 slaves and 3 uniques built in.

 

TDF20220529_v2 fix patch.zip

 

Does it have the dialog bug or is it ok?

 

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

thinking i'll have them set to not-respawning as the new default with option included to respawn

That's cool, would it be an MCM option or something done during the install process?

 

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

in light of this suggestion, i've adjusted the recipe and the value of the "iron slave collar" to match that of iron gauntlets. re-adjusting the leash collars next

I still think the leash collar should be noticably more expensive than the normal iron collar being it is an enchanted magic item designed to prevent/deter slaves from escaping. I still think something between 150-200 is a good fair amount given what it is and what it does especially if removing the respawning ones in the study.

 

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

thinking to replace the filled common soul gem requirement next so i'll think on some bone dust and frostbite venom, then recompute the new value

I just thought the bone dust would make a good replacement for the glow dust since even tho it's not a "rare" resource it is still hard to get at low levels or the beginning of the game because you have to either find it or kill drauger for it. The frostbite venom idea I had as an ingredient is similar in comparison to the shock/explosive collars in the Fallout universe, how if a slave tries to escape they get a nasty shock, or their head is blown off. Likewise with the venom, if a slave tried to escape they would get a nasty does of poison injected into the neck that could be like the shock, or could be lethal like the explosive.

 

As for the soul gem component I've never had any issues with using filled gems that I have filled myself, but I also use a mod that "fixes" soul gems so that bigger gems are not wasted on lower level souls either. "Acquisitive Soul Gems Multithreaded" is the mod I use, so that may have something to do with why mine works just fine and others do not. Also referring to a comment earlier about "vanilla" and exploits, the second a mod is installed ya ain't playing "vanilla" anymore so that point is completely irrelevant. Point being in vanilla, there are potions that are worth thousands of times more than their base ingredients so worrying about the collars being worth alot more than their base components in all honesty is kinda pointless really. I'd figure out a fair price for the end product that is right for a low level character so to be not easily obtained, but not so expensive it's out of reach either. 50-75 for the Iron collar, and 150-200 for the leash collar imho are fair prices and having them sold only on the khajiit caravan merchants and in felglow slave camp is both immersive and makes sense as well. Once a character has reached a certain level and point in the game even if this is the only mod they use, the price of the collars won't matter at all, so it is just for lowbies.

 

If it were me doing it, I'd replace the glow dust with bone dust one for one, and add in a frostbite venom to the existing recipe, then adjust the prices, add the items to the vendors, put a condition on the items in the study making them stolen if the dragon's stone quest is not complete, and making them not stolen if it is. I'd also add the whip to the Felglow Vendors and probably add the DD crafting book from the College of Winterhold to the vendor in Felglow for like 500g or 1k g or something similar to give people an option to obtain the book without having to start the College questline. Then I'd call it a day cause at some point somebody ain't gonna be happy about something cause it ain't exactly the way they like to play, which honestly is fine and dandy cause we don't all play the same if we did it would be fucking boring as hell. I think the vast majority of people that use this mod would most likely be more than happy with those changes because not only does it add in more ways to obtain the items, it does so in what I think is a pretty immersive way. Makes them a tad bit easier to craft if one goes that route, and makes them more accessible to lower level characters without just "giving" them freely.

 

This is just my opinion and to each their own, just offering up suggestions. I do not however have any suggestions on what to replace the soul gem component with honestly, as I can't think of another type of ingredient that would make sense to give it the "leash" properties that a soul gem would, meaning the gem acts as a "tether" to "leash" the wearer to you so they can't run away. If you removed that part, you could perhaps add a condition to the collar where if the slave went so many meters away from the player they would be "shocked" or poisoned if you choose to use the venom as an ingredient, having it take their health down to the point where they drop and surrender. No clue how you would code that, but again just a thought. Here's another thought, I'm pretty sure that Farengar sells the level one shock spell scrolls from the start, so you could in theory have one of those scrolls replace the soul gem component effectively turning it into a "shock" collar from Fallout, lol. Just a thought

[CliftonJD]

15 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

Care to elaborate on that abit as I'm really confused now...

 

6 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

not seeing anything in her that should exclude her unless you get the same issue with other uniques as well, previous version of the slave patch had a bug in it that required you to have 3 random slaves as hookers before you could bribe any uniques

With the fresh char haven't gotten past Angi as of yet, so can't tell you if it affects other uniques or not. As for my older save and higher level char the option all the uniques I've looked at so far have had the dialog option after going thru the "make money with your body" tree.

i think he's speaking of the dialogue conditions. if your high level character has no issues with other uniques, only other thing i could think of would be that tdf is detecting or treating her as a guard

19 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

I'm using the file you gave me a little while back, iirc you said it had the 3 slaves and 3 uniques built in.

 

TDF20220529_v2 fix patch.zip 99.53 kB · 0 downloads

 

Does it have the dialog bug or is it ok?

its the version i sent you, not sure if pfiffy has it yet

20 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

That's cool, would it be an MCM option or something done during the install process?

since i don't have a fomod, i'll make an extra zip file within the install so you get the paradise_halls_farengars_study.esl and paradise_halls_farengars_study collars respawn.zip

26 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

still think the leash collar should be noticably more expensive than the normal iron collar being it is an enchanted magic item designed to prevent/deter slaves from escaping. I still think something between 150-200 is a good fair amount given what it is and what it does especially if removing the respawning ones in the study.

 

2 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

thinking to replace the filled common soul gem requirement next so i'll think on some bone dust and frostbite venom, then recompute the new value

I just thought the bone dust would make a good replacement for the glow dust since even tho it's not a "rare" resource it is still hard to get at low levels or the beginning of the game because you have to either find it or kill drauger for it. The frostbite venom idea I had as an ingredient is similar in comparison to the shock/explosive collars in the Fallout universe, how if a slave tries to escape they get a nasty shock, or their head is blown off. Likewise with the venom, if a slave tried to escape they would get a nasty does of poison injected into the neck that could be like the shock, or could be lethal like the explosive.

 

As for the soul gem component I've never had any issues with using filled gems that I have filled myself, but I also use a mod that "fixes" soul gems so that bigger gems are not wasted on lower level souls either. "Acquisitive Soul Gems Multithreaded" is the mod I use, so that may have something to do with why mine works just fine and others do not. Also referring to a comment earlier about "vanilla" and exploits, the second a mod is installed ya ain't playing "vanilla" anymore so that point is completely irrelevant. Point being in vanilla, there are potions that are worth thousands of times more than their base ingredients so worrying about the collars being worth alot more than their base components in all honesty is kinda pointless really. I'd figure out a fair price for the end product that is right for a low level character so to be not easily obtained, but not so expensive it's out of reach either. 50-75 for the Iron collar, and 150-200 for the leash collar imho are fair prices and having them sold only on the khajiit caravan merchants and in felglow slave camp is both immersive and makes sense as well. Once a character has reached a certain level and point in the game even if this is the only mod they use, the price of the collars won't matter at all, so it is just for lowbies.

 

If it were me doing it, I'd replace the glow dust with bone dust one for one, and add in a frostbite venom to the existing recipe, then adjust the prices, add the items to the vendors, put a condition on the items in the study making them stolen if the dragon's stone quest is not complete, and making them not stolen if it is.

2 bonemeal, 2 mudcrab chitins, and 2 frostbite venom with an iron slave collar give construction value of 81. in skyrim construction value that's near perfect match to 150 game value, only off by 1 so i added 1 to the value. not sure on how he treats quests, think by default any items owned by farengar get adjusted for quest completion.

50 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

I'd also add the whip to the Felglow Vendors and probably add the DD crafting book from the College of Winterhold to the vendor in Felglow for like 500g or 1k g or something similar to give people an option to obtain the book without having to start the College questline.

whip is already part of his merchandise. better not to change the book value...might look into a special dialogue for the book in the future tho

[Martok73]

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

i think he's speaking of the dialogue conditions. if your high level character has no issues with other uniques, only other thing i could think of would be that tdf is detecting or treating her as a guard

My lvl 58 mage with 2 unique hookers in tow, not only has all dialog options, but for some reason, she has the persuade option show up twice, once in the middle of the window and again at the bottom. However the bottom persuade option only has the pay for sex dialog and not the recruit as a hooker dialog, while the 1st persuade dialog has both available. Not sure what's going on with that. To better explain, I have two dialog options that say "Do you want to make some money with that body [persuade]", only one of which gives me the dialog option to recruit her as a hooker, the other only has the option to pay for sex with her. This is with Angi strictly btw, so far I haven't noticed this with any other uniques I've tested with my lvl 58 mage.

 

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

its the version i sent you, not sure if pfiffy has it yet

Not sure if it's the custom followers I'm using or not, but the file I linked that you sent me allows more than 3 uniques following at a time. So far on my lvl 58 mage I have Angi, Olfina, and 2 custom followers that I've bribed/persuaded into working for me as hookers. Might want to check the file I linked to see if it is supposed to be 3 and 3 or what, cause so far I've got 4 uniques with that file.

 

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

since i don't have a fomod, i'll make an extra zip file within the install so you get the paradise_halls_farengars_study.esl and paradise_halls_farengars_study collars respawn.zip

ok, so which is going to be the default, respawn or no-respawn?

 

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

2 bonemeal, 2 mudcrab chitins, and 2 frostbite venom with an iron slave collar give construction value of 81. in skyrim construction value that's near perfect match to 150 game value, only off by 1 so i added 1 to the value. not sure on how he treats quests, think by default any items owned by farengar get adjusted for quest completion.

That sounds pretty good, but the mudcrab chitin to me doesn't make sense, but that might be just me idk. What did you think about the sparks scroll idea? Or perhaps the sparks spellbook? Both are pretty cheap iirc and available from Farengar at lvl 1 as well. I also have no idea how quests are handled codewise, but I do like how some items that belong to npcs are marked as stolen before either doing a quest or reaching the ally/friend rank with them. Example, many things are free to take in Arcadia's shop after doing the quest for her, prior to doing that quest they are marked as "steal" or stolen if taken. Just thought it might be cool to have the collars be marked "steal" when first meeting him and then after the quest have them not be.

 

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

whip is already part of his merchandise. better not to change the book value...might look into a special dialogue for the book in the future tho

Which merchant inside Felglow sells them? I thought I checked every npc inside there and so far haven't found any that sells anything other than food and drink like an innkeeper does.

 

I honestly don't know what the book value is off the top of my head, was just suggesting making a way to get it to so you can craft everything, other than having to start the College of Winterhold questline, as I know not everyone likes the idea of having to always go there just to get the book and for people like me, the College doesn't always fit in the current playthrough and doesn't makes sense to have any reason to go there.

[CliftonJD]

2 hours ago, Martok73 said:

3 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

think he's speaking of the dialogue conditions. if your high level character has no issues with other uniques, only other thing i could think of would be that tdf is detecting or treating her as a guard

My lvl 58 mage with 2 unique hookers in tow, not only has all dialog options, but for some reason, she has the persuade option show up twice, once in the middle of the window and again at the bottom. However the bottom persuade option only has the pay for sex dialog and not the recruit as a hooker dialog, while the 1st persuade dialog has both available. Not sure what's going on with that. To better explain, I have two dialog options that say "Do you want to make some money with that body [persuade]", only one of which gives me the dialog option to recruit her as a hooker, the other only has the option to pay for sex with her. This is with Angi strictly btw, so far I haven't noticed this with any other uniques I've tested with my lvl 58 mage.

ok, the option to hire the hooker with only 1 of the bribe options is intentional, while the 2 dialogues appearing on the same npc is a bug in the dialogue conditions. atleast you got her working now so we know she's not a guard, maybe you have to make your newer character friends with her or get her horny to be able to recruit her

2 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Not sure if it's the custom followers I'm using or not, but the file I linked that you sent me allows more than 3 uniques following at a time. So far on my lvl 58 mage I have Angi, Olfina, and 2 custom followers that I've bribed/persuaded into working for me as hookers. Might want to check the file I linked to see if it is supposed to be 3 and 3 or what, cause so far I've got 4 uniques with that file.

would guess you either already had a unique holding the slot of a random or 1 of the followers wasn't marked as a unique

2 hours ago, Martok73 said:

ok, so which is going to be the default, respawn or no-respawn?

no respawn

2 hours ago, Martok73 said:

That sounds pretty good, but the mudcrab chitin to me doesn't make sense, but that might be just me idk. What did you think about the sparks scroll idea? Or perhaps the sparks spellbook?

you didn't mention the book so i didn't think to look and the scroll i kinda figured would be like looking for a needle in a haystack...ok, found the book, but that's an extra $46 added to the recipe. that makes it comparable to dwarven armor pricing unless we sacrifice something else, the frostbite venom is the closest comparable price to the book, so that's $400 base price before the low level speech comes in and raises it...don't think you'd want to sacrifice the venom in favor of the spell book

2 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Which merchant inside Felglow sells them? I thought I checked every npc inside there and so far haven't found any that sells anything other than food and drink like an innkeeper does.

Dhanesh, should have a small shop on the left side of the room before you head out the passage. looks like its setup as a chance to be there thru leveled lists...tons of other goodies you might be interested in while you're there too, definitely worth a look

2 hours ago, Martok73 said:

I honestly don't know what the book value is off the top of my head, was just suggesting making a way to get it to so you can craft everything, other than having to start the College of Winterhold questline, as I know not everyone likes the idea of having to always go there just to get the book and for people like me, the College doesn't always fit in the current playthrough and doesn't makes sense to have any reason to go there.

its cheap, i have the book. only worth $25

Edited June 26, 2022 by CliftonJD

[Antiope_Apollonia]

5 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

in that regard the filled common soul gem requirement exceeds the value of the leash collar. in that regard i don't like how skyrim handles filling the soulgems in es5. if a recipe requires a filled common soul gem in es5, only the kind bought or found pre-filled will fit the requirement, soulgems the player fills are still counted as the empty soulgem until you get to grand souls or black

I'd consider a Soul Trap mod to be basically a requirement in any load order.  GIST was the standard for a long time, but there's a newer one called YASTM that's better.  These mods improve Soul Trapping in a variety of ways, and they offer you some configurability.  One thing they do is remove the difference between pre-filled and manually filled Soul Gems.  

 

I keep it configured to be very close to vanilla behaviour.  My big reason for using it is the "soul displacement" behaviour, which allows you to replace souls that only partially fill a gem with larger ones so you don't have to drop them to clear the soul.  But if you want to, you can enable additional hacks that make filling Soul Gems much easier than vanilla.  Here are my settings:

Spoiler

Also noteworthy is that YASTM uses a better method of saving your settings than most mods.  You only have to export once, and then you don't have to import at the start of each new playthrough.  This might be something @CliftonJD and @TrollAutokill should look into replicating in PAHE/DoM.

 

4 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

2 bonemeal, 2 mudcrab chitins, and 2 frostbite venom with an iron slave collar give construction value of 81. in skyrim construction value that's near perfect match to 150 game value, only off by 1 so i added 1 to the value. not sure on how he treats quests, think by default any items owned by farengar get adjusted for quest completion.

That doesn't really seem like a very logical recipe for making a collar.  Maybe just call them "Steel" instead of "Iron" and use Steel Ingots?  Maybe a quasi-magical bug like Torchbug Thorax would make more sense than Mudcrab Chitin?  Frostbite Venom seems like a reasonable idea, but I don't know how you're supposed to make a collar out of powder and crab shells.

[CliftonJD]

32 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Maybe just call them "Steel" instead of "Iron" and use Steel Ingots? 

ok, then the value goes up as well...

34 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Maybe a quasi-magical bug like Torchbug Thorax would make more sense than Mudcrab Chitin? 

ok, removes the challenge of the crabs, but it works just as well

38 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Frostbite Venom seems like a reasonable idea, but I don't know how you're supposed to make a collar out of powder and crab shells.

we already had a collar as an ingredient, we're just thinking up a reasonable method of adding the effect to the collar

[Antiope_Apollonia]

7 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

ok, then the value goes up as well...

Well they're 50 gold now, right?  Steel Ingots are also 50 gold, so you could leave it as-is, or you could bump the price up to 60 to be in line with similar vanilla recipes.  Like I said earlier, underpricing items isn't exploitable; it's overpricing you have to worry about.  

 

8 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

ok, removes the challenge of the crabs, but it works just as well

Surely Frostbite Venom is challenge enough, I'd think.

 

9 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

we already had a collar as an ingredient, we're just thinking up a reasonable method of adding the effect to the collar

Ah, right, fair enough.

[Martok73]

2 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

ok, the option to hire the hooker with only 1 of the bribe options is intentional, while the 2 dialogues appearing on the same npc is a bug in the dialogue conditions. atleast you got her working now so we know she's not a guard, maybe you have to make your newer character friends with her or get her horny to be able to recruit her

That's the thing the 1st appearance of the "Want to make some money with that body?[persuade]" or close enough, when selected, gives me the option to either hire her for sex for 100g, or recruit her to work for me for 100g. The second appearance of that same dialog choice only has the option to hire her for sex for 100g. Having them appear twice I figured was a bug, so eliminate the duplicate and you'd be left with the right one showing both the option to hire her and recruit her. As for why my fresh char doesn't have any of the options other than to pimp my character out to Angi, I am not sure. My lvl 58 mage when meeting Angi the 1st time had all the options so I don't think it has anything to do with relationship rank. Maybe arousal, but kinda doubt it, perhaps speech level?

 

2 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

would guess you either already had a unique holding the slot of a random or 1 of the followers wasn't marked as a unique

Double checked the two custom followers I had in xedit and both have the unique flag. Might want to double check that file make sure it's 3 and 3.

 

2 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

no respawn

Ok, so are you gonna see about adding in the flag that makes them show "steal" prior to raising relationship rank with Farengar or completing the Dragon Stone quest?

 

2 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

you didn't mention the book so i didn't think to look and the scroll i kinda figured would be like looking for a needle in a haystack...ok, found the book, but that's an extra $46 added to the recipe. that makes it comparable to dwarven armor pricing unless we sacrifice something else, the frostbite venom is the closest comparable price to the book, so that's $400 base price before the low level speech comes in and raises it...don't think you'd want to sacrifice the venom in favor of the spell book

Maybe drop the chitin and only require one bone meal and one frostbite venom along with the book and the normal collar? Not sure how much that would affect the price but an idea anyway. The bone meal and venom make perfect sense from a lore perspective and immersion perspective, and if either the book or the scroll doesn't add too much to the base cost of the leash collar, then I think that would make sense both lorewise and immersively. In the event that both the book and the scroll adds too much to the cost then I would suggest perhaps just making it say 3 bone meal and 3 venom along with the normal collar as the chitin just doesn't make sense to me as an ingredient to "enchant" a normal iron collar into a leash collar.

 

2 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

Dhanesh, should have a small shop on the left side of the room before you head out the passage. looks like its setup as a chance to be there thru leveled lists...tons of other goodies you might be interested in while you're there too, definitely worth a look

Making a note of that name so I can look for them and see what they have.

 

2 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

its cheap, i have the book. only worth $25

ouch, that's kinda crap imho. Well, still I think there should be some way to obtain the book without having to go all the way to the college and start the quest just to get into the library to be able to take it freely. Maybe could add it only to the vendor in the slave camp? Makes it abit harder to get but still keeping it available without having to do the college crap. Add in the increase to base price with 0 speech and it would make it what, 75g ish?

[Martok73]

33 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I said earlier, underpricing items isn't exploitable; it's overpricing you have to worry about.  

Have you seen the sell price of some of the potions made by alchemy? Those are vanilla game without using any in game exploit, they can get way way up there when comparing cost of ingredients to what you can sell the potion for. I honestly don't think compared to how OP Alchemy is when it comes to making gold, that no matter what the price of the slave collars are, they ain't gonna become a gold farm, it's just not worth it compared to alchemy potion farms. So, how bout chill out about the price, mkay? Thanks

[CliftonJD]

21 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Well they're 50 gold now, right?  Steel Ingots are also 50 gold, so you could leave it as-is, or you could bump the price up to 60 to be in line with similar vanilla recipes.  Like I said earlier, underpricing items isn't exploitable; it's overpricing you have to worry about.  

already adjusted it according to your earlier suggestion:

9 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

 

12 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I would suggest basing the price on the crafting components, otherwise they become a crafting XP exploit.  (Crafting XP is determined by the price.)  Or, choose crafting components to justify the price you want.  

 

You can make them cheaper than their components, but you shouldn't make them much more expensive than the sum of the ingredients used to make them.  In vanilla content, extremely cost-effective recipes are around 2:1, finished product to components.  

 

As for how a base price relates to the actual price, NPCs sell items for 3.3x base price at 0 Speech, and 2x base price at 100 Speech.  Conversely, they buy items for 0.3x base price at 0 Speech and 0.5x base price at 100 Speech.

Expand  

in light of this suggestion, i've adjusted the recipe and the value of the "iron slave collar" to match that of iron gauntlets. re-adjusting the leash collars next

completed iron gauntlets are only valued about $25, steel ingots have material cost of 20 each so the closest completed vanilla equivalent goes upto the iron cuirass at $125. that cost is just an empty collar we still need to add the effects to