sse Paradise Halls Enhanced (pahe) Special Edition with the customary addons

[Antiope_Apollonia]

6 hours ago, Martok73 said:

The price would have to be extremely high to surpass the gold ring/necklace spam for smithing leveling.

Gold Rings are 75 gold, and you get two, for 150.  (Necklaces are only 120, so dominated by rings for this.)  Gold Ingots are 100 gold.  So that's only a 1.5:1 ratio.  You're "overpowered" strategy is leveraging a pretty modest margin.  Right in line with what I've said.  

 

Of course, you could see the use of the Transmute Ore spell as a way to exploit this to turn 4g worth of Iron Ore into 150 gold worth of Gold Rings, and it certainly is a powerful approach.  It isn't really a Smithing exploit, though, whatever you think of the Transmute Ore spell.  And making unadorned Gold Rings is a painfully slow way to level Smithing, anyway, simply due to the limits on available Iron Ore.  Iron is needed for all sorts of things.  I always buy any Iron Ore I find on vendors, and I mine every Iron Vein I come across, and I still always end up using it pretty nearly as quickly as I find it.  So I make bejewelled Rings and Amulets as I acquire the jewels, and I never touch unadorned Gold Rings, because I just don't have the supplies to do so.  

 

Smithing is actually fairly well-balanced in Vanilla Skyrim—much moreso than the other crafting disciplines.  In practice, the best strategy is generally a pretty opportunistic one, where you use whatever materials you have to make whatever they'll make.

 

6 hours ago, Martok73 said:

That isn't how that works, it is alot more complicated than that, each relationship rank allows the player to take different items, yes based on value, but no it's not under 25g. Also you have to have a minimum rank of ally (relationshiprank 2) or higher to be allowed to take anything at all. Can't get that rank without doing the quest for the dragon stone.

I oversimplified a bit, but it's more or less accurate.  Your version is very much not.  You only need relationship rank 1, "friend", to be able to take items.  "Ally" is rank 3.  Technically, you get a different max value for every rank, but in practice, this almost never matters, because the game will only ever use the first rank.  If you become a "friend" and later an "ally", you're still limited to 25 gold.  And in practice, Rank 2, "confidant" is virtually never used, while rank 3 is pretty much only for followers*.  Almost every quest or interaction that affects disposition in Skyrim just sets them to "friend".  

 

I just investigated this situation thoroughly with console commands, and it actually has nothing to do with the Dragonstone at all.  There are no disposition changes from that quest.  Finishing Dragon Rising, however, and becoming Thane of Whiterun makes you an ally of the Jarl.  And evidently, the Jarl owns everything in Farengar's study (and bedchamber).  Farengar only owns the items on his desk out in the hall in front of the crafting stations, and you aren't allowed to take anything there, because his relationship rank doesn't increase.

  

6 hours ago, Martok73 said:

But whichever recipe you choose is cool, just don't add the torchbug thorax, it doesn't make sense, please.

It makes more sense than a book or mudcrab chitin.  I'm not very invested in the inclusion of Torchbugs; I just threw it out there as a possibility.  My main point is to think through the crafting balance thoroughly.  Aside from the fact that having a book in the recipe makes no sense, it's also something you can only get one of in each city every several days.  That's a huge bottleneck.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Farsh-nuke]

All this effort because people who didn't like that items respawn weren't happy just not using the items. This after Antiope had already made a patch to stop the items respawning for those that care about the issue.

(goes to grumble in a corner)

I do have a genuine question for the experts of immersion though. Explain how and why reading a magic spellbook destroys the book in question? I ask because for that to make any kind of sense in lore then the same kind of logic can be used to justify a book being used in crafting.

Incidentally torchbugs are common as muck so I'd be happy if they replaced glow dust as the active ingredient. Or throw us a bone and make it nirn root or something else farmable

Edit:

To be clear I know and respect that Clifton can do whatever he likes with it and this is an amazing mod availiable for free. I hope my bitterness is amusing and not dickish. It's annoying but if the worst comes to the worst I'll just outright cheat somehow, (maybe if I use SLEN to bonk Farengar enough it won't be stealing to take the respawning stuff lol

Edited June 27, 2022 by Farsh-nuke
Edited for clarity

[Martok73]

7 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

that's how i've seen it work in Se. Le depended on relationship rank and allowed lover rank to take anything

Still works the same in SE, it all depends on relationship rank.

 

7 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

still getting the friendly bug so either we need to try it pfiffy's way or some other mod is causing the problem and we need to find that before we continue with tdf:

To use that patch I'd have to switch the base file first tho right? since I'm still on 29 and not 30?

 

7 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

i call it a friendly peace offering between all the replies you and antiope gave that she only had the 1 suggestion of the torchbug

It still doesn't make any sense imho.

 

5 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Gold Rings are 75 gold, and you get two, for 150.  (Necklaces are only 120, so dominated by rings for this.)  Gold Ingots are 100 gold.  So that's only a 1.5:1 ratio.  You're "overpowered" strategy is leveraging a pretty modest margin.  Right in line with what I've said.  

 

Of course, you could see the use of the Transmute Ore spell as a way to exploit this to turn 4g worth of Iron Ore into 150 gold worth of Gold Rings, and it certainly is a powerful approach.  It isn't really a Smithing exploit, though, whatever you think of the Transmute Ore spell.  And making unadorned Gold Rings is a painfully slow way to level Smithing, anyway, simply due to the limits on available Iron Ore.  Iron is needed for all sorts of things.  I always buy any Iron Ore I find on vendors, and I mine every Iron Vein I come across, and I still always end up using it pretty nearly as quickly as I find it.  So I make bejewelled Rings and Amulets as I acquire the jewels, and I never touch unadorned Gold Rings, because I just don't have the supplies to do so.  

 

Smithing is actually fairly well-balanced in Vanilla Skyrim—much moreso than the other crafting disciplines.  In practice, the best strategy is generally a pretty opportunistic one, where you use whatever materials you have to make whatever they'll make.

I've never had any issues with any playthroug maxing out smithing with gold ring/necklaces, and I do use the transmute spell. Never had any problem finding iron ore, or gold for that matter. I can normally max out smithing in about 30 mins or so.

 

5 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I oversimplified a bit, but it's more or less accurate.  Your version is very much not.  You only need relationship rank 1, "friend", to be able to take items.  "Ally" is rank 3.  Technically, you get a different max value for every rank, but in practice, this almost never matters, because the game will only ever use the first rank.  If you become a "friend" and later an "ally", you're still limited to 25 gold.  And in practice, Rank 2, "confidant" is virtually never used, while rank 3 is pretty much only for followers*.  Almost every quest or interaction that affects disposition in Skyrim just sets them to "friend".

If you look in the code like I have this is not how it works, it absolutely has everything to do with relationship rank. I just the ranks mixed up is all, it happens sometimes. But With higher relationship rank the value of items you can take does in fact increase up to the point of lover rank 4 in which you can take anything flagged as owned by that npc.

 

5 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I just investigated this situation thoroughly with console commands, and it actually has nothing to do with the Dragonstone at all.  There are no disposition changes from that quest.  Finishing Dragon Rising, however, and becoming Thane of Whiterun makes you an ally of the Jarl.  And evidently, the Jarl owns everything in Farengar's study (and bedchamber).  Farengar only owns the items on his desk out in the hall in front of the crafting stations, and you aren't allowed to take anything there, because his relationship rank doesn't increase.

Never advance a quest via console commands it has a very bad tendency to fuck shit up and cause bugs. Now whether or not Farengar owns anything in his study or bedroom, I'd have to look in the code. I do know from personal experience that before competing the quest to recover the dragon stone, everything in those rooms that is not added by a mod is marked "steal" when moused over. After I've completed the quest to recover the dragon stone, there are many items that no longer have the "steal" tag when moused over. So whomever owns them, is ok with taking them after that part of the quest is complete, whether it be Farengar, or Balgruf.

 

5 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

It makes more sense than a book or mudcrab chitin.  I'm not very invested in the inclusion of Torchbugs; I just threw it out there as a possibility.  My main point is to think through the crafting balance thoroughly.  Aside from the fact that having a book in the recipe makes no sense, it's also something you can only get one of in each city every several days.  That's a huge bottleneck.

It made sense from the perspective that those leash collars are very similar to the shock collars in Fallout. Using either the book to "learn" how to add the "shock" to the collar, or using a scroll for that spell to "apply it to the collar" Makes sense in the way that you are enchanting a collar to either poison or shock the wearer to deter them from running away and staying put. Also both the scrolls and the spell books are not limited and form my experience they respawn shortly after leaving the cell. At least that has been my experience in my game, can't speak for someone else's game. Needless to say the mudcrab chitin made absolutely no sense at all, at least with the book or scroll it's feasible. I only suggested some type of limitation for high level characters anyway, because let's get real here, once you hit a certain level and have explored a decent bit, you are swimming in alchemy and enchanting materials/ingredients, so you can churn out whatever you like with no limit or worry. The book or scroll would have added something for a high level char to have to go get, but it was only a suggestion. I'd be fine with him using the 3 bone meal and 3 frostbite venom and 1 normal iron collar. I just thought it might add a little spice or extra flair. As for the torchbug thorax, how would you explain it's inclusion in the recipe to make it at least a little bit lore friendly or immersive? I think I've done pretty well explaining my thought process.

 

4 hours ago, Farsh-nuke said:

All this effort because people who didn't like that items respawn weren't happy just not using the items. This after Antiope had already made a patch to stop the items respawning for those that care about the issue.

Actually I think it was just because they weren't happy with the respawn and it was suggested to make them available on a vendor, which makes sense that you could buy them from certain npcs. Which this still came after they made the patch for themselves to stop the respawn. I'd have to go back thru the thread tho to verify, but adding them to vendors is a good thing, and most have agreed that the recipe was a pain in the ass for low level characters thus prompting the recipe change and the ideas being discussed.

 

4 hours ago, Farsh-nuke said:

I do have a genuine question for the experts of immersion though. Explain how and why reading a magic spellbook destroys the book in question? I ask because for that to make any kind of sense in lore then the same kind of logic can be used to justify a book being used in crafting.

Depending on which lore you examine, be it ES lore, DA lore, DnD lore, or other similar magic based RPGs, for some when you learn how to cast the a spell either a scroll or a book is used and the concentration required and deep meditation required to commit the incantations to memory is so intense that the medium that the spell you learned is scribed on would be "burnt up" so to speak or otherwise consumed once the ritual to learn it is finished. In some lore a spell book is required to be present and time to prepare the spell is required before one can cast it and in those cases the book is not consumed, but reagents are consumed and spell components are used in the cast process. Like I said, all depends on which lore you look at as to which applies. Pretty sure in ES lore that for each spell to be committed to memory a ritual has to be preformed that results in the components and source being "burnt or used" up, aka consumed.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

6 hours ago, Martok73 said:

I can normally max out smithing in about 30 mins or so.

No you can't, unless you're being disingenuous.  Sure, if you've done a load of prep work getting all your ingredients ready in advance, you can spam click at the forge and get it done in a hurry.  But you're not acquiring enough materials to make that possible in anything close to 30 minutes unless you're using the console or some overpowered mod vendor or something.  If you're spamming Gold Rings, you'd need over a thousand gold ore to go from 15-100, even with sleep and standing stone buffs.

  

6 hours ago, Martok73 said:

If you look in the code like I have this is not how it works, it absolutely has everything to do with relationship rank. I just the ranks mixed up is all, it happens sometimes. But With higher relationship rank the value of items you can take does in fact increase up to the point of lover rank 4 in which you can take anything flagged as owned by that npc.

In theory, but not in reality.  It doesn't re-calculate for subsequent changes in rank.  It's one-and-done.  So if you go straight from rank 0 to rank 4, yes, you'll get 500 gold limit.  But if you go from 1→2→3→4, you'll still have the 25 gold limit.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[remodel]

I noticed there is now an Astrid quest(s).  I read through a lot of this topic but haven't seen anything describing it.  As large as this topic is I could easily miss it.

 

What is the Astrid quest?

 

My plans for Astrid, is to enslave and use AYGAS to prostitute her for her crimes.  Along with several others from her cult.

 

Can't say it enough, great mod.

Edited June 27, 2022 by remodel

[Farsh-nuke]

5 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

In theory, but not in reality.  It doesn't re-calculate for subsequent changes in rank.  It's one-and-done.  So if you go straight from rank 0 to rank 4, yes, you'll get 500 gold limit.  But if you go from 1→2→3→4, you'll still have the 25 gold limit.

Now that sounds like a legit bug

[Faustling]

I am playing Skyrim SE v 1.5.97 with the following mods:

 

ZaZ Animation Pack+ CBBE HDT V.8.0+SEREV3

pahe_lives_on-7.5.0 wip SE basic install with out addons loose files

PAH_HomeSweetHome_1.26 SSE

Fuz Ro D'oh-15109-1-7-1574514494.1

PAH_AndYouGetASlave_0.58b SSE

PAH_HSH_VoicePack_0.1

PAH_HomeSweetHome_1_-_Botoxed

 

Loaded in that order. It took me some time to get everything working, but it has worked without much problem for months, but doesn’t anymore, and I can’t figure out why.  Strike someone with a whip, and you get a bright flash, which indicates that some spell hit him, and then he acts as if poisoned. That is, his health drops gradually through the floor. (He doesn’t actually die, but his health does go negative if the mystery effect goes on long enough.) The dispelallspells console command does nothing. I can raise him back up with healing spells, or sleep for an hour, which does the same thing, but then he starts dropping again. This also affects automatons, normally immune to poison. I have no idea what causes this. The only mod I added recently, Points of Interest, doesn’t seem like a probable culprit. Aside from that, I don’t think I changed a thing.

 

Apologies if someone has already addressed this.

 

[Martok73]

16 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

No you can't, unless you're being disingenuous.  Sure, if you've done a load of prep work getting all your ingredients ready in advance, you can spam click at the forge and get it done in a hurry.  But you're not acquiring enough materials to make that possible in anything close to 30 minutes unless you're using the console or some overpowered mod vendor or something.  If you're spamming Gold Rings, you'd need over a thousand gold ore to go from 15-100, even with sleep and standing stone buffs.

Using built in "features" of the vanilla game (after 11 years bugs are features) I most definitely can max out smithing in between 30-45mins from start to finish. Keep in mind that I max out alchemy first so I have plenty of gold. In a pure vanilla game it's fucking fast as hell, it's when you use mods that fix Bugthesda's fuck ups, and mods to improve the shitty ass skill system, then it takes me way way longer to max it out. But even with mods, and without using the resto-glitch, I can still max alchemy in less than an hour of real world time just by using the farm, creep cluster, scaly pho (can't spell it), and mora tapin(can't spell it). Once alchemy is maxed out and you have plenty of gold, maxing out smithing is a cake walk. Oh and I don't know what kind of settings you are using that makes it take you over 1k gold, but mate, trust me in vanilla, no way in hell it takes 1k gold ore to max it out.

 

With mods after alchemy is maxed, it takes me about 2hrs to max out smithing because I use mods that actually fix the cluster fuck of a smithing system that is vanilla. Arse Metallica to be more specific along with so many bug fix patches I've lost count. Without any mods at all, pure vanilla, after I max out alchemy, it takes me between 30-45 real world mins to max out smithing cause it's bat shit easy as fuck. As skill level increases the value of the items you make in vanilla goes up, same with alchemy. Pure vanilla I swap between gold rings and gold necklaces after burning thru the optimal levels of iron daggers to go with leveling my enchanting skill. So I don't know how you have things modded or setup in your game, but in my game this is how it works every single time whether it's pure vanilla, or I mod the hell out of it, and I've done it at least a hundred times over the years on multiple characters. Piece of advice, never go from 15-100 solely on gold ore, always take iron daggers as far as you can first so you have something to enchant to level up enchanting in the early stages, then swap to gold rings and necklaces and keep those to enchant as well because a gold ring of stealth sells for more than a dagger of turn undead, at least it does in a pure vanilla game, no clue if it does in your game or not. Also, never start with smithing first, always always level alchemy first, and now that the CC farm is a freebie thing from the get go, it's even easier and faster to level it up.

 

Oh and I never use console commands at all unless I encounter a bug that I can't work around or fix without or a quest that gets stuck and won't progress at all.

 

16 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

In theory, but not in reality.  It doesn't re-calculate for subsequent changes in rank.  It's one-and-done.  So if you go straight from rank 0 to rank 4, yes, you'll get 500 gold limit.  But if you go from 1→2→3→4, you'll still have the 25 gold limit.

This is absolutely how it works in my game, and unless you've done some major tom-fuckery to your game it should work the exact same way if you are looking at it from a vanilla perspective. More times than I can count over the years in both LE and SE the item value of "free to take" things has always been tied directly to relationship rank. I mean damn there is even a wiki page on the subject with a table showing exactly how much of a gold value an item can have that you can take for each relationship rank you reach with any given npc.  So NO you are dead wrong about the whole going from 1-2-3-4 and still having a 25 gold value limit, mate that is plain BS. Unless you've done some major shit I can even prove it... Take any marriageable npc, upon your 1st encounter, mouse over all the items they own, best to use a npc with a house and some prominence. Notice everything shows "steal"... Now do their quest or their requirement to make them marryable. Again mouse over their items and notice some, but not all will have the "steal" tag removed. Open the console and check your relationship rank as you go if you wish, it will just further prove how pure vanilla works without being manipulated. Now marry that npc, check relationship rank in the console and it should say "4" Lover. Now mouse over everything they own and notice the "steal" tag is completely gone from everything, and also notice the high gold valued items that no longer have the "steal" tag that are worth way more than 25g. Thus proving that it does in fact work exactly like I have said it works and the 25g limit is only for rank 1 and the limit is gone at rank 4. The best npc to test this on in a pure vanilla game is Tarie (spelling?), the haughty Altmer chick in Solitude that owns Radient Rainment with her sister. There are many items in there that have a much higher gold value than 25, that you are allowed to freely take once you marry her, but will be "stolen" if you take them before marring her. If you don't believe me and if this is not how it works in your game, then you really need to go thru your game and see what is fucking with relationship and ownership flags and tags in your modlist cause this is how it works in my game in pure vanilla, and in my currently 500ish active mods setup as well. But take the test, run a pure untouched vanilla game, check out Radient Rainment before speaking to Tarie or her sister, and make note of items and their values, then talk to and do her little modelling quest and check the same items afterwards, then marry her snob bitch ass and check it again... If you have a truly vanilla game that you haven't touched, you'll see items that were way more than 25g that are freely takable from the shop after marrying the snob bitch.

 

11 hours ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Now that sounds like a legit bug

If that's how it is working in their game, then yeah, it is a legit bug cause that is not how it is supposed to work normally, and it's not how it works in my game at all.

 

2 hours ago, Faustling said:

pahe_lives_on-7.5.0 wip SE basic install with out addons loose files

Try updating to 8.14, you are on a very old version of this mod.

 

2 hours ago, Faustling said:

 

 

PAH_HomeSweetHome_1_-_Botoxed

Might be causing issues, have never seen or heard of this myself personally, so might want to look into it's age and see if it's still compatible with PAHE or not.

[CliftonJD]

17 hours ago, Martok73 said:

On 6/26/2022 at 8:50 PM, CliftonJD said:

still getting the friendly bug so either we need to try it pfiffy's way or some other mod is causing the problem and we need to find that before we continue with tdf:

To use that patch I'd have to switch the base file first tho right? since I'm still on 29 and not 30?

oh you mean this:

On 5/30/2022 at 12:09 AM, Pfiffy said:

The friendly-bug version of the patch is much smaller than the bug free version. Is this ok? 

 

Ok... The dialogues are rewoked, 'store-dialogue-option' removed and removed another essential flag in the pimpingquest6. 

 

 

 

TDF20220530_v2.7z 37.83 MB · 5 downloads

On 6/26/2022 at 8:50 PM, CliftonJD said:

still getting the friendly bug so either we need to try it pfiffy's way or some other mod is causing the problem and we need to find that before we continue with tdf:

TDF20220530_v2 fix patch2.zip 117.62 kB · 2 downloads

 

17 hours ago, Martok73 said:

23 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I just investigated this situation thoroughly with console commands, and it actually has nothing to do with the Dragonstone at all.  There are no disposition changes from that quest.  Finishing Dragon Rising, however, and becoming Thane of Whiterun makes you an ally of the Jarl.  And evidently, the Jarl owns everything in Farengar's study (and bedchamber).  Farengar only owns the items on his desk out in the hall in front of the crafting stations, and you aren't allowed to take anything there, because his relationship rank doesn't increase.

Never advance a quest via console commands it has a very bad tendency to fuck shit up and cause bugs. Now whether or not Farengar owns anything in his study or bedroom, I'd have to look in the code. I do know from personal experience that before competing the quest to recover the dragon stone, everything in those rooms that is not added by a mod is marked "steal" when moused over. After I've completed the quest to recover the dragon stone, there are many items that no longer have the "steal" tag when moused over. So whomever owns them, is ok with taking them after that part of the quest is complete, whether it be Farengar, or Balgruf.

ahh, see i was getting the impression that you knew farengar's stuff was ok to take after completing that quest. i wasn't aware you were directed at the other stuff in his study, which he don't own those btw...i'll need to make some ownership adjustments again

17 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Also both the scrolls and the spell books are not limited and form my experience they respawn shortly after leaving the cell. At least that has been my experience in my game, can't speak for someone else's game.

stay in the shop, save the game, and quit. when you return the shop is restocked, not for leaving the cell. leave the cell and come, nothing changes until you quit, reload--i shop alchemy shops regularly for while to stock up on supplies

12 hours ago, remodel said:

I noticed there is now an Astrid quest(s).  I read through a lot of this topic but haven't seen anything describing it.  As large as this topic is I could easily miss it.

 

What is the Astrid quest?

 

My plans for Astrid, is to enslave and use AYGAS to prostitute her for her crimes.  Along with several others from her cult.

 

Can't say it enough, great mod.

what do you mean by an astrid quest, there isn't any quest in pahe related to astrid

12 hours ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Now that sounds like a legit bug

that would make sense cuz i remember the higher ranks in Le, but in Se its as if something has changed preventing the rank effect on item favor values

3 hours ago, Faustling said:

I am playing Skyrim SE v 1.5.97 with the following mods:

 

 

 

ZaZ Animation Pack+ CBBE HDT V.8.0+SEREV3

 

pahe_lives_on-7.5.0 wip SE basic install with out addons loose files

 

PAH_HomeSweetHome_1.26 SSE

 

Fuz Ro D'oh-15109-1-7-1574514494.1

 

PAH_AndYouGetASlave_0.58b SSE

 

PAH_HSH_VoicePack_0.1

 

PAH_HomeSweetHome_1_-_Botoxed

 

 

 

Loaded in that order. It took me some time to get everything working, but it has worked without much problem for months, but doesn’t anymore, and I can’t figure out why.  Strike someone with a whip, and you get a bright flash, which indicates that some spell hit him, and then he acts as if poisoned. That is, his health drops gradually through the floor. (He doesn’t actually die, but his health does go negative if the mystery effect goes on long enough.) The dispelallspells console command does nothing. I can raise him back up with healing spells, or sleep for an hour, which does the same thing, but then he starts dropping again. This also affects automatons, normally immune to poison. I have no idea what causes this. The only mod I added recently, Points of Interest, doesn’t seem like a probable culprit. Aside from that, I don’t think I changed a thing.

 

 

 

Apologies if someone has already addressed this.

 

 

 

seems as if something else would be involved for that behavior, can you send a papyrus log

[Martok73]

@CliftonJD ok, so I'm still using this,

TDF20220529_v2.7z

 

with this patch that you sent me,

TDF20220529_v2 fix patch.zip

 

Best I can tell it does allow me to recruit more than just 3 uniques and 3 non-unique slaves, as I currently have 4 unique non slave npc hookers and 2 non unique slave hookers on my lvl 58 mage. Also I've noticed that no matter what npc I talk to I still get the double dialog bug. Oh and Angi doesn't have any dialog options other than the "are you looking for company" dialog regardless of arousal level if her relationshiprank player is below 1 "friend" no matter the character level. Tested this on several different chars of different levels when 1st meeting Angi at her camp. Once relationshiprank player = 1 or above, regardless of arousal level, the double dialog bug appears and the 1st or top dialog option includes the option to recruit her as a prostitute to work for your character, and the option to just hire her for sex yourself. The 2nd or bottom dialog only shows the hire her for sex yourself, the bugged out option that is. I did notice tho, that by increasing Angi's arousal when first met and having a realtionshiprank player of 0, you can pimp yourself out to her thus increasing her relationshiprank so that you can afterwards talk to her again and the recruit her as a following hooker. The only time this does not apply is if you have hookers in tow with you when you first meet Angi, then the dialog option "still bugged showing twice", does show up giving the option to recruit her as another following hooker regardless of arousal and relationshiprank player being 0. It only works tho if you have at least one other hooker already employed and with you when you first meet Angi.

 

I have no ran into the "friendly" bug as of yet in any of my testing using these two file as of yet. So far tested about a day and a half irl time probably 36 hrs or so.

 

 

Now my biggest question is two fold, what is the difference between the two files I'm currently using, and these two files here?

TDF20220530_v2.7z & TDF20220530_v2 fix patch2.zip

And should I switch to using these instead of the ones I am using now?

 

All files marked "patch" are the files that you have linked in previous post replies that you and I have been conversing and discussing TDF in. Pretty sure that the base files were also gotten from this thread linked in a previous post as well, just been awhile since I got em.

 

Anyway I am curious to know the differences and whether or not I should switch to the newer ones and start testing those and if there is anything I need to do before switching if you do recommend I switch?

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, Martok73 said:

Using built in "features" of the vanilla game (after 11 years bugs are features) I most definitely can max out smithing in between 30-45mins from start to finish. Keep in mind that I max out alchemy first so I have plenty of gold.

So if you're just buying out the inventories of Smithing vendors, fast travelling around from city to city and/or repeatedly waiting for restocks, then sure.  Of course, building up all that gold to spend is still "prep work" of a sort.  And you're not counting all the time you're skipping with fast travel/wait.

  

1 hour ago, Martok73 said:

I mean damn there is even a wiki page on the subject with a table showing exactly how much of a gold value an item can have that you can take for each relationship rank you reach with any given npc. 

From that very wiki page:

Quote

Also the item value is only evaluated once meaning if you first become a friend then an ally item value will remain at 25, not 100.

(Where are the commas?! ?)

Edited June 28, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Martok73]

5 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

ahh, see i was getting the impression that you knew farengar's stuff was ok to take after completing that quest. i wasn't aware you were directed at the other stuff in his study, which he don't own those btw...i'll need to make some ownership adjustments again

Yep, makes sense now, adjust away.

 

6 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

stay in the shop, save the game, and quit. when you return the shop is restocked, not for leaving the cell. leave the cell and come, nothing changes until you quit, reload--i shop alchemy shops regularly for while to stock up on supplies

I've done it both ways actually with alchemy vendors, smithing vendors, and Faralda at the College. Have did the quicksave/punch/reload method, also just plain saved/quit/load as well, and I do remember a couple vendors, at least in my game, who's items that I bought would restock after leaving the cell then re-entering after a few minutes or so, give or take. But my personal favorite that has been in the game since launch and to this day has never been addressed by nether Bethesda, nor modders, would have to be the quicksave/punch/reload to restock vendor inventories.... At this point after 11+ years it's a feature not a bug, LOL.

 

9 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

that would make sense cuz i remember the higher ranks in Le, but in Se its as if something has changed preventing the rank effect on item favor values

Yeah, I agree, I honestly think something in their game is bugged, whether it be with the vanilla files or they have some mod that screws with how realtionship rank works with the gold value of items the player can take freely at each rank. I know it works right in my game as I explained to them above in an earlier post siting the Tarie (spelling?) example I gave that I tested last night again just to make sure I was right.

 

 

BTW what did you decide on the recipe, going with 3 bone meal, 3 frostbite venom plus collar, or going with 1 bone meal, 1 venom, book/scroll plus collar? I'm curious, and I still don't think torchbugs make sense but oh well ?, and there is literally no challenge in getting them either, LOL.... I am curious tho since we've been discussing it for a couple days now. ?

 

Oh I did find the vendor in Felglow, they have a very strange inventory for sure, not what I had expected, kinda a mismatch hodgpodge of junk and then they sell the whip... ? will be nice to see them collars soon.

[Farsh-nuke]

4 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

Yep, makes sense now, adjust away.

 

I've done it both ways actually with alchemy vendors, smithing vendors, and Faralda at the College. Have did the quicksave/punch/reload method, also just plain saved/quit/load as well, and I do remember a couple vendors, at least in my game, who's items that I bought would restock after leaving the cell then re-entering after a few minutes or so, give or take. But my personal favorite that has been in the game since launch and to this day has never been addressed by nether Bethesda, nor modders, would have to be the quicksave/punch/reload to restock vendor inventories.... At this point after 11+ years it's a feature not a bug, LOL.

 

Yeah, I agree, I honestly think something in their game is bugged, whether it be with the vanilla files or they have some mod that screws with how realtionship rank works with the gold value of items the player can take freely at each rank. I know it works right in my game as I explained to them above in an earlier post siting the Tarie (spelling?) example I gave that I tested last night again just to make sure I was right.

 

 

BTW what did you decide on the recipe, going with 3 bone meal, 3 frostbite venom plus collar, or going with 1 bone meal, 1 venom, book/scroll plus collar? I'm curious, and I still don't think torchbugs make sense but oh well ?, and there is literally no challenge in getting them either, LOL.... I am curious tho since we've been discussing it for a couple days now. ?

 

Oh I did find the vendor in Felglow, they have a very strange inventory for sure, not what I had expected, kinda a mismatch hodgpodge of junk and then they sell the whip... ? will be nice to see them collars soon.

I have used SLEN with Belethor and others before and definitely noticed the amount of items I can take increasing with rank.

Even if that is not the case and Antiope is right that the game locks it so the value of what you can take is locked when you first meet them the literal game code dictates that it should change. That is a bug. It might be a bug that came baked into SE for some reason but we have mods to fix other things so why not this? 

I also want to be clear that I am not saying that Antiope's experience of her own game is invalid. We all have different mod set ups and things like skse and dll plugins can affect how the game works. Heck I know I've used sseedit to fix the black face bug for the overhaul mods I use so I know you could have the exact same mods with the exact same set up as I do and without those changes your game would appear broken. I'm just very much aware that we're a bunch of men telling a woman that she is wrong about something when her own system shows her the proof that she is correct about at least her own system. I don't want to gaslight anybody. 

[CliftonJD]

13 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

@CliftonJD ok, so I'm still using this,

TDF20220529_v2.7z 37.84 MB · 0 downloads

 

with this patch that you sent me,

TDF20220529_v2 fix patch.zip 99.53 kB · 0 downloads

 

Best I can tell it does allow me to recruit more than just 3 uniques and 3 non-unique slaves, as I currently have 4 unique non slave npc hookers and 2 non unique slave hookers on my lvl 58 mage. Also I've noticed that no matter what npc I talk to I still get the double dialog bug. Oh and Angi doesn't have any dialog options other than the "are you looking for company" dialog regardless of arousal level if her relationshiprank player is below 1 "friend" no matter the character level. Tested this on several different chars of different levels when 1st meeting Angi at her camp. Once relationshiprank player = 1 or above, regardless of arousal level, the double dialog bug appears and the 1st or top dialog option includes the option to recruit her as a prostitute to work for your character, and the option to just hire her for sex yourself. The 2nd or bottom dialog only shows the hire her for sex yourself, the bugged out option that is. I did notice tho, that by increasing Angi's arousal when first met and having a realtionshiprank player of 0, you can pimp yourself out to her thus increasing her relationshiprank so that you can afterwards talk to her again and the recruit her as a following hooker. The only time this does not apply is if you have hookers in tow with you when you first meet Angi, then the dialog option "still bugged showing twice", does show up giving the option to recruit her as another following hooker regardless of arousal and relationshiprank player being 0. It only works tho if you have at least one other hooker already employed and with you when you first meet Angi.

 

I have no ran into the "friendly" bug as of yet in any of my testing using these two file as of yet. So far tested about a day and a half irl time probably 36 hrs or so.

 

 

Now my biggest question is two fold, what is the difference between the two files I'm currently using, and these two files here?

TDF20220530_v2.7z & TDF20220530_v2 fix patch2.zip

And should I switch to using these instead of the ones I am using now?

 

All files marked "patch" are the files that you have linked in previous post replies that you and I have been conversing and discussing TDF in. Pretty sure that the base files were also gotten from this thread linked in a previous post as well, just been awhile since I got em.

 

Anyway I am curious to know the differences and whether or not I should switch to the newer ones and start testing those and if there is anything I need to do before switching if you do recommend I switch?

minor differences in some dialogues and a major difference in how the follower whores are handled. instead of splitting the hookers into half uniques and half randoms, he set all 6 hookers to not save the names to quest. i don't know if there's anything needed to prep for the update, but you might need to hit the reset after the update, so maybe fire all your hookers and tell the independent whores to take a break before updating. i'm starting a new game with the new version to clear the friendly bug from the save and see if i still encounter the bug. if you haven't encountered the bug yet, i don't know for sure what's the best course of action to recommend. 

[CliftonJD]

27 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

would have to be the quicksave/punch/reload to restock vendor inventories...

ahh ok, somehow hadn't thought of trying the quicksave method to restock

32 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

Oh I did find the vendor in Felglow, they have a very strange inventory for sure, not what I had expected, kinda a mismatch hodgpodge of junk and then they sell the whip... ? will be nice to see them collars soon.

according to his leveled list, there's 75% chance of him stocking 5 slave collars, 12 iron slave collars, 8 leash collars, and 3 whips. additionally there's a 50% chance of him stocking 10 glow dust and 10 common soul gems. thought there might be some nice weapons there too, but it seems the weapons never got added to the inventory after they were added to the level list

[Martok73]

8 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

So if you're just buying out the inventories of Smithing vendors, fast travelling around from city to city and/or repeatedly waiting for restocks, then sure.  Of course, building up all that gold to spend is still "prep work" of a sort.  And you're not counting all the time you're skipping with fast travel/wait.

No shit you don't count fast travel times, that would be stupid to include them, you count real world time that passes while you are doing shit in the game. And with your description of "prep work" I bet you include the time it takes to launch, boot, and enter the game as "prep work" ?ROFLMA!!! I can literally start a brand new character (after taking 2-3 hrs creating them and configuring all my damn MCM shit), enter the game world, head straight to the new farm, (forgot the damn name), gathering the 3 regs I need along the way, do the quest at lvl 1 naked using fists, plant the ingredients I gathered, wait 3 days collect regs, rinse and repeat until I have about 300 each, (takes less than 30 mins up to this point from entering the game), spend the next 15ish mins spamming out potions maxxing out my alchemy. Then taking everything and selling all my potions to Arcadia in Whiterun, (save/exit/reload), does the exact same thing as waiting 48hrs in game just a little tad bit faster IRL, to restock her gold and inventory and rinse and repeat. Total time is just around 45mins real world from Entering the game world to selling the last potion to Arcadia, 100 alchemy achieved. Next I take the carriage to Solitude, buy the items I need to start enchanting and smithing at the same time, Ring of Alchemy (name?), and clothes to enchant. Then I take the carriage to Windhelm, grab the boat to Solsteim (spelling sucks sorry), head to the blacksmith and buy all iron, leather, gold. (save/exit/reload) to reset inventory and repeat until I have enough to make my daggers to enchant and my rings and necklaces as well. I also check his inventory for the right magic weapons I need to level enchanting with while resetting his inventory each time until I have what I need. Again it is just a little tad bit faster IRL timewise, than using the wait menu to wait 48hrs to reset his inventory. Once I'm ready to start banging out daggers, rings, necklaces for enchanting my total time in the game world freshly spawned at lvl 1 is roughly about an hour and a half give or take 5-10 mins. That includes spawning in, running to the farm, taking the farm, planting the regs that I gather on the way to the farm, growing the regs, max'ing out alchemy, selling the potions, buying magic stuff to DE and clothes to enchant, going to Solitude, Windhelm, Solsteim, Whiterun all before smacking the anvil to craft any blacksmith items at all. With the enchanting table in Raven Rock close to the blacksmith most of the time I level both at the same time, but if I am in a hurry I'll just do one at a time, with smithing being the one to supply the enchanting. Anyway I bang out about 100ish daggers to enchant give or take a few depending on how many mats I have on hand, then I bang out however many rings and necklaces it takes to finish out smithing to 100, by this time if I put off leveling enchanting until I have all the daggers, rings and necklaces made, the total time passed from entering the game world to 100 smithing is roughly 2hrs total give or take a few minutes, making the actual time it took me to go from 15-100 smithing (depending on character race) was no more than 30ish mins after arriving at Raven Rock. So again, yes 100% vanilla you can absolutely max out smithing in 30 mins or a tad bit more strictly focusing on smithing. The enchanting part normally takes me less than 15-20 mins to complete to get to 100 enchanting, then I take everything, all the daggers, the rings, and the necklaces and sell them back to the smith at Raven Rock resetting his gold when he's out to recover the cost of all the materials I bought/used while level smithing and enchanting. So all in all I can have alchemy, smithing, and enchanting maxed out at 100 each in as little as roughly 2 1/2 hrs give or take if I am in a hurry and I take my optimized most efficient route from the time I spawn into the game map, to the time I finish in Raven Rock. I think one character took my just under 3hrs total time just because it took the game a tab bit longer to load than it normally does. Needless to say maxing out 3 skills, getting a farm, making a few hundred thousand gold from level 1 in less than 3 hours real world time is pretty damn awesome, and it's easy as fucking a backtalking slave into submission... maybe not as fun, but just as easy, LOL.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Where are the commas?! ?)

Honestly do not know who put this comment on the wiki page as the wiki is modifiable by pretty much anyone, but this statement you quoted is absolutely not how it works in my game, as I have already given you an example using Tarie(spelling?) to debunk this, and I even tested it again last night on a new 100% vanilla profile just to make sure it still worked that way in my game, and it sure does. So I would assume that whoever wrote that comment originally experienced what we have determined to be a bug in SE regarding the relationship rank system and item value to "steal" tag. As it was not designed that way in LE, and so far in all the years I've been playing SE it hasn't worked that way in my game either. If it did, then marrying someone would not make any difference at all and would not remove the "steal" tag from any items the npc that you married owned or their faction owned because it would always go on the basis of what your relationship ranks was with that npc at the time you 1st met them. And I can tell you from years of experience that is not how it works. So in this case one single comment on the wiki is most definitely wrong, the table with the values is correct, but that statement is wrong.

 

Anyway, try it yourself with the snob ass bitch and her stupid sister and see what happens.... I hope this along with my earlier example and explanation helps to better understand how the game is supposed to work and not how it may bug out for some and not work. Regardless, I've said and done all I can to explain this and give examples and honestly am tired of this "beating a dead horse", so I hope you can fix the bug in your game and get it working the way it does for me and others here, otherwise I'm done as there is nothing else I can say or do and don't really want to anymore honestly. So you play your game however it will allow you to play, and I'll play mine and be happy. ? Have a nice day and take care. ?

[CliftonJD]

42 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

BTW what did you decide on the recipe, going with 3 bone meal, 3 frostbite venom plus collar, or going with 1 bone meal, 1 venom, book/scroll plus collar? I'm curious, and I still don't think torchbugs make sense but oh well ?, and there is literally no challenge in getting them either, LOL.... I am curious tho since we've been discussing it for a couple days now. ?

think i'll go with the 3 bone meal and 3 venom with the torch bug

[Martok73]

32 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

I have used SLEN with Belethor and others before and definitely noticed the amount of items I can take increasing with rank.

Even if that is not the case and Antiope is right that the game locks it so the value of what you can take is locked when you first meet them the literal game code dictates that it should change. That is a bug. It might be a bug that came baked into SE for some reason but we have mods to fix other things so why not this? 

I also want to be clear that I am not saying that Antiope's experience of her own game is invalid. We all have different mod set ups and things like skse and dll plugins can affect how the game works. Heck I know I've used sseedit to fix the black face bug for the overhaul mods I use so I know you could have the exact same mods with the exact same set up as I do and without those changes your game would appear broken. I'm just very much aware that we're a bunch of men telling a woman that she is wrong about something when her own system shows her the proof that she is correct about at least her own system. I don't want to gaslight anybody. 

I don't use SLEN so I can't speak to that at all. I also didn't know she was a she and thus have been referring to them as well they/them/mate whatever because I didn't know gender and didn't want to further offend. Regardless tho I feel bad that they are having the bug tho cause that is definitely not the way it is supposed to work and I've went into painstakingly long detail on the matter in previous posts.

 

21 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

minor differences in some dialogues and a major difference in how the follower whores are handled. instead of splitting the hookers into half uniques and half randoms, he set all 6 hookers to not save the names to quest. i don't know if there's anything needed to prep for the update, but you might need to hit the reset after the update, so maybe fire all your hookers and tell the independent whores to take a break before updating. i'm starting a new game with the new version to clear the friendly bug from the save and see if i still encounter the bug. if you haven't encountered the bug yet, i don't know for sure what's the best course of action to recommend. 

Hmm, so with his version they just don't show the names in the dialog and unique or non-unique doesn't matter huh? So do the names at least show in the MCM or the quest journal? Could deal with them not showing in the dialog but would be very annoying if they didn't at least show in the MCM, would make it hard to keep up with who's who and what's what and where if they didn't show the names at least at that point.

 

I have no idea either I mean so far in my 3 tests cases I haven't experienced the friendly bug as of yet, but I have had the double dialog bug on each of the 3 chars I'm testing with atm so there is that. I honestly would like to be able to use a version that does in fact show at least the names of the unique hookers in the dialog, preferably without having the double dialog bug or the friendly bandit bug, lol. In a perfect world, LOL, perhaps you'll figure it out... I think tho for now seeing as how the only real pressing bug I have found so far with the current version I'm using is that the dialog is doubled appearing twice, and I can recruit more than 3 uniques as follower whores at a time instead of only the 3. Honestly although annoying with the double dialog, I can live with that since it does seem to work the way it is supposed to and 3ways work just fine as well. So since you have no recommend course of action I think I'll just keep using what I'm using now and "see" if I encounter the friendly bug. I definitely have enough generic slaves that if it's going to trigger that would do it, so I'll keep testing this version and "see" what happens. I do hope you can figure out what is causing the double dialog tho...  And just to confirm, the version I am using is supposed to only allow 3 unique following whores at a time along with 3 non-unique following whores correct?

 

14 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

ahh ok, somehow hadn't thought of trying the quicksave method to restock

yep my personal favorite method to reset/restock npc inventory, cause it involves punching them in the face

 

15 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

according to his leveled list, there's 75% chance of him stocking 5 slave collars, 12 iron slave collars, 8 leash collars, and 3 whips. additionally there's a 50% chance of him stocking 10 glow dust and 10 common soul gems. thought there might be some nice weapons there too, but it seems the weapons never got added to the inventory after they were added to the level list

Interesting, that's definitely not what I'm seeing or at least haven't seen so far in the 3 times I've checked their inventory. I'll check with a couple other characters and see what he's got a few separate times and let ya know what I find. I may take a look at my leveled list patches as well and see if they fuck with him in any way, might just be on my end, will let ya know.

[Martok73]

15 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

think i'll go with the 3 bone meal and 3 venom with the torch bug

Ok, that's cool, guess I'll have to sleep on it and try to figure out a way to incorporate the thorax into my headcannon lore ?

[Antiope_Apollonia]

16 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

Ok, that's cool, guess I'll have to sleep on it and try to figure out a way to incorporate the thorax into my headcannon lore ?

My logic in suggesting it was that they're magical bugs that provide the spark for zapping naughty slaves.

[Farsh-nuke]

10 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

My logic in suggesting it was that they're magical bugs that provide the spark for zapping naughty slaves.

I watched an episode of stargate where plants were used to create cold fusion and power the stargate. a magical bug that makes light somehow helping to provide zap to a collar is infinitely more intuitive by comparison lol

[Will55]

23 hours ago, Martok73 said:

 

 

Depending on which lore you examine, be it ES lore, DA lore, DnD lore, or other similar magic based RPGs, for some when you learn how to cast the a spell either a scroll or a book is used and the concentration required and deep meditation required to commit the incantations to memory is so intense that the medium that the spell you learned is scribed on would be "burnt up" so to speak or otherwise consumed once the ritual to learn it is finished. In some lore a spell book is required to be present and time to prepare the spell is required before one can cast it and in those cases the book is not consumed, but reagents are consumed and spell components are used in the cast process. Like I said, all depends on which lore you look at as to which applies. Pretty sure in ES lore that for each spell to be committed to memory a ritual has to be preformed that results in the components and source being "burnt or used" up, aka consumed.

Ahaaa! A former Ultima player perhaps?

Edited June 28, 2022 by Will55

[CliftonJD]

18 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

Ok... The dialogues are rewoked

finding bugs in the dialogues that changed, seems the script attached loses some identifiers

17 hours ago, Martok73 said:

So do the names at least show in the MCM or the quest journal? Could deal with them not showing in the dialog but would be very annoying if they didn't at least show in the MCM, would make it hard to keep up with who's who and what's what and where if they didn't show the names at least at that point.

yes, mcm still gets their names right, not sure on the quest journal yet

17 hours ago, Martok73 said:

I do hope you can figure out what is causing the double dialog tho... 

got an idea how i could fix that bug easy enough, but it didn't prevent the friendly bandit bug from happening in my recent save so i can't put more work into that version of the patch.

17 hours ago, Martok73 said:

since you have no recommend course of action I think I'll just keep using what I'm using now and "see" if I encounter the friendly bug.

correction to my earlier statement, finding bugs in the new dialogue changes he made so its best to stay where you are for now and i'll work on an update for it

 

 

[Will55]

My new char is now lev 50+ but has abandoned slavery. She reached Riverwood with 5 slaves in tow and added 2 more and all were secure in the Vuoksi shack as in previous runs.

All of these slaves, all restrained, disappeared from my MCM when my char was in Dawnstar.

So, I returned to Vuoksi and it was empty.

I consoled them and had to rez, disable, enable to get them back and all only had the 2 lines of escaping slaves when they appeared.

Vuoksi's door cannot be opened from within or without without a key or LP skill, so there is no way that they should have escaped.

Naturally all of their submission etc was lost.

So, having just discovered "the farm" with its "holding cells" (a bit of a joke that) I moved them in there via TP. I had one hell of a job getting my char out of the cell as most made a dash for the open door. Eventually I worked out that the chain locks do not work and so i tried lockmaster. Fail! So, I consoled "lock" and they were all locked.

I went upstairs and outside and realized I had forgotten to TP in my new slave.

So, we go downstairs, and all doors were unlocked and only 2 slaves were left. So, I asked them to follow me and outside I freed the two Vuoksi slaves but kept the new one.

 

Having no real home i have been dropping off my ex-hooker followers in the Dibella Refuge near Whiterun. Naturally the slave followed me. But suddenly she became snarky and verbally aggressive (Sub ~50) and went red several times within the refuge for no reason, but the locals battered her down. Being a mage she damn near killed my PC in one surprise attack when she was "training" a hooker. She became so hot & cold and totally unpredictable that I ended up getting rid of her (a real "first" to be proud of). 

 

So, slavery is not on the agenda right now although uniques might be considered later.

 

I do have DOM installed but have never clicked its esp as I was waiting to see what happens. Perhaps this is the cause?  No idea !

[Farsh-nuke]

23 minutes ago, Will55 said:

My new char is now lev 50+ but has abandoned slavery. She reached Riverwood with 5 slaves in tow and added 2 more and all were secure in the Vuoksi shack as in previous runs.

All of these slaves, all restrained, disappeared from my MCM when my char was in Dawnstar.

So, I returned to Vuoksi and it was empty.

I consoled them and had to rez, disable, enable to get them back and all only had the 2 lines of escaping slaves when they appeared.

Vuoksi's door cannot be opened from within or without without a key or LP skill, so there is no way that they should have escaped.

Naturally all of their submission etc was lost.

So, having just discovered "the farm" with its "holding cells" (a bit of a joke that) I moved them in there via TP. I had one hell of a job getting my char out of the cell as most made a dash for the open door. Eventually I worked out that the chain locks do not work and so i tried lockmaster. Fail! So, I consoled "lock" and they were all locked.

I went upstairs and outside and realized I had forgotten to TP in my new slave.

So, we go downstairs, and all doors were unlocked and only 2 slaves were left. So, I asked them to follow me and outside I freed the two Vuoksi slaves but kept the new one.

 

Having no real home i have been dropping off my ex-hooker followers in the Dibella Refuge near Whiterun. Naturally the slave followed me. But suddenly she became snarky and verbally aggressive (Sub ~50) and went red several times within the refuge for no reason, but the locals battered her down. Being a mage she damn near killed my PC in one surprise attack when she was "training" a hooker. She became so hot & cold and totally unpredictable that I ended up getting rid of her (a real "first" to be proud of). 

 

So, slavery is not on the agenda right now although uniques might be considered later.

 

I do have DOM installed but have never clicked its esp as I was waiting to see what happens. Perhaps this is the cause?  No idea !

I do know that Home Sweet Home had an issue that once you got far enough away from a slave they were unloaded and couldn't be detected by the mod until you got back into range. Perhaps it has something to do with that?

I also know that sex scenes can cause my character and npcs to fall through the floor of places I have applied overhaul mods to like winterhold, solitude and windhelm. I've been meaning to get around to addressing that lol