sse Paradise Halls Enhanced (pahe) Special Edition with the customary addons

[CliftonJD]

1 hour ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Then it looks like I have taken Antiope's advice without realising it lol. More seriously though if testing I prefer to start in whiterun as that's where my favourite followers are

covered that too: "I trained a Submissive at The Bannered Mare (Whiterun)"

[Farsh-nuke]

13 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

covered that too: "I trained a Submissive at The Bannered Mare (Whiterun)"

Well now I have to try that. 

Incidentally I'm about to finish writing up a set of slave responses for Troll Auto Kill to pick from and use as they see fit. Let me know if there's any writing grunt work I can do for you. I don't mean idea wise, you've got that covered but like slave barks or lore books and the like

[Martok73]

10 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

imo its not your settings that are cheaty, but the default dd settings that are cheaty. i too disable the consume keys option and the option for gloves to drop items. the added challenge of being unable to equip items while wearing an armbinder or yoke is more prefered over dropping, some items can be lost if dropped or some areas lose dropped items.

gotta agree, I think the default settings in DD are way to brutal imho. I changed those settings immediately when I saw them in the MCM, hobble walking from a dungeon all the way to a blacksmith just to get unlocked isn't my idea of fun, very slow and tedious and results in loading a previous save. lol.

[CliftonJD]

19 hours ago, Martok73 said:

gotta agree, I think the default settings in DD are way to brutal imho. I changed those settings immediately when I saw them in the MCM, hobble walking from a dungeon all the way to a blacksmith just to get unlocked isn't my idea of fun, very slow and tedious and results in loading a previous save. lol.

lol

[Antiope_Apollonia]

Is it intentional that the miscellanea added by the Farengar's Study addon are all respawning?  It feels like they should be one-offs... I might just make a personal edit to that end if nothing else.

[DonQuiWho]

6 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Is it intentional that the miscellanea added by the Farengar's Study addon are all respawning?  It feels like they should be one-offs... I might just make a personal edit to that end if nothing else.

 

@CliftonJD

 

If you do make any changes here, please make it an 'option' toggle rather than a once only event.  At lower levels, Glow Dust is hard to find - yes , I do use the Enchanted Leashing Collars - and adding it via console - even if you salve your conscience by dropping a heap of gold bars into a river as 'payment' - is less appealing than periodic larceny in that asshole, Farengar's, study ?

[Farsh-nuke]

2 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

@CliftonJD

 

If you do make any changes here, please make it an 'option' toggle rather than a once only event.  At lower levels, Glow Dust is hard to find - yes , I do use the Enchanted Leashing Collars - and adding it via console - even if you salve your conscience by dropping a heap of gold bars into a river as 'payment' - is less appealing than periodic larceny in that asshole, Farengar's, study ?

Also it's his study, it makes sense that he'd keep replacing his lost stuff. 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

2 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

@CliftonJD

 

If you do make any changes here, please make it an 'option' toggle rather than a once only event.  At lower levels, Glow Dust is hard to find - yes , I do use the Enchanted Leashing Collars - and adding it via console - even if you salve your conscience by dropping a heap of gold bars into a river as 'payment' - is less appealing than periodic larceny in that asshole, Farengar's, study ?

I'm always astonished to hear that people use those.  Punishing for running away is great training, if nothing else, to say nothing of immersion.  If you want a more immersive way to increase their supply, though, probably the best course of action would be to make a personal patch for their recipe.  I replaced the Charus Chitin in the recipe for Ebonite Solution in DD with Troll Fat, for example, to better balance the availability.

 

Like, why would Farengar keep leaving exactly the same configuration of items there for you to take every time you take it?  It's just not immersive!

[Farsh-nuke]

1 hour ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I'm always astonished to hear that people use those.  Punishing for running away is great training, if nothing else, to say nothing of immersion.  If you want a more immersive way to increase their supply, though, probably the best course of action would be to make a personal patch for their recipe.  I replaced the Charus Chitin in the recipe for Ebonite Solution in DD with Troll Fat, for example, to better balance the availability.

 

Like, why would Farengar keep leaving exactly the same configuration of items there for you to take every time you take it?  It's just not immersive!

It's immersive because it fits with the context of the rest of the world. Every other character in skyrim behaves exactly the same. Alvor leaves iron and steel outside and replaces it if you take it. Homes respawn their clutter.

Besides the system as it currently is has a limit of about 3 magic collars already made and 3 more respawning every few days. It keeps the magic collars scarce so there is tension and you can't enslave everyone you meet but also guarantees a reliable supply so you don't have to grind or anything.

 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

Okay, so I made a patch.  Anyone else who thinks it's bizarre can use it freely.

Farengar's Study Doesn't Respawn.7z

 

1 hour ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Alvor leaves iron and steel outside and replaces it if you take it. Homes respawn their clutter.

Those things are all owned by their owners, though.  The Farengar's Study items are flagged as owned by the PC.  It's like the PC is his god, and he's making offerings or something.  Weird!

 

1 hour ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Besides the system as it currently is has a limit of about 3 magic collars already made and 3 more respawning every few days.

A much better bottleneck would be figuring out a recipe that makes sense for the rate of availability you want to achieve, and patching that in.  Maybe something with Luna Moth Wings, Tundra Cotton, and Steel Ingots or something would be in the ballpark of what you're looking for?

[Farsh-nuke]

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Okay, so I made a patch.  Anyone else who thinks it's bizarre can use it freely.

Farengar's Study Doesn't Respawn.7z 1.06 kB · 0 downloads

 

Those things are all owned by their owners, though.  The Farengar's Study items are flagged as owned by the PC.  It's like the PC is his god, and he's making offerings or something.  Weird!

 

A much better bottleneck would be figuring out a recipe that makes sense for the rate of availability you want to achieve, and patching that in.  Maybe something with Luna Moth Wings, Tundra Cotton, and Steel Ingots or something would be in the ballpark of what you're looking for?

Now you explain it I understand I guess I never noticed what you describe because as soon as you agree to look for the dragonstone (or is it give his salt to arcadia) he decides to let you everything in his area for free. Like you're here going "Why would he keep his collars in the same place?" while I'm like "He doesn't mind me taking his sack of gold, he always replaces it and it's always in the exact same place."

For you to think this is a place where this stands out you must not be familiar enough with all the little sidequests you do for characters that let you take their stuff and keep taking it when it respawns. It sounds like a better solution for you would be to flag those respawning items to the same quest as the others in his room so they go from stealing to free to take at the same time

[DonQuiWho]

6 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I'm always astonished to hear that people use those.  Punishing for running away is great training, if nothing else, to say nothing of immersion.  If you want a more immersive way to increase their supply, though, probably the best course of action would be to make a personal patch for their recipe.  I replaced the Charus Chitin in the recipe for Ebonite Solution in DD with Troll Fat, for example, to better balance the availability.

 

Like, why would Farengar keep leaving exactly the same configuration of items there for you to take every time you take it?  It's just not immersive!

 

OK, I'll bite

 

So you're astonished that people don't play the game the same way as you?  I could spend all night producing a 'wall of words' to explain why they don't ... ?

 

Suffice it to say that some of us, such as me, are merely Slavers and Slave Traders.  We catch them, and then subdue them enough to flog them off for cash to you and others to train, using your regimes in which you may flog them into obedience, or just treat them so nicely that they will eventuallly mince around and lick your feet.  I have neither the time nor patience to do that, so good for you if you have   

 

I'd flog you my catches if I could.  I'd welcome the extra market opportunity.  It would also be interesting avoiding the customs charges and so on.  And it would maybe save you going out the door to catch them, but if you wanted a special request, I certainly wouldn't appreciate being told just how to go about enslaving, say, Adrianna Avenicci, for you to then buy her to add to your troupe of performing courtesans.  That's my game ...

 

So, will that do, and does it help?  You, or others?  ?

 

BTW, thanks for doing that patch .   I'm sure that it will please lots of other people who want to play differently ?

[Farsh-nuke]

To be clear it is always good when someone decides to patch something and share that patch even if it's a patch I wouldn't use and I do think a lot of Antiope's ideas are wonderful. 

[CliftonJD]

23 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Is it intentional that the miscellanea added by the Farengar's Study addon are all respawning?  It feels like they should be one-offs... I might just make a personal edit to that end if nothing else.

never thought to look, i make that trip to dragonsreach once to get those and never look back. but looking at the items i see the book isn't set to respawn with the other items so maybe it was intentional from layam

10 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Okay, so I made a patch.  Anyone else who thinks it's bizarre can use it freely.

Farengar's Study Doesn't Respawn.7z 1.06 kB · 0 downloads

 

Those things are all owned by their owners, though.  The Farengar's Study items are flagged as owned by the PC.  It's like the PC is his god, and he's making offerings or something.  Weird!

 

A much better bottleneck would be figuring out a recipe that makes sense for the rate of availability you want to achieve, and patching that in.  Maybe something with Luna Moth Wings, Tundra Cotton, and Steel Ingots or something would be in the ballpark of what you're looking for?

but you're right the recipe is shit, why in hell he gave it such rare ingredients only to add respawning collars makes no sense.

16 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

@CliftonJD

 

If you do make any changes here, please make it an 'option' toggle rather than a once only event.  At lower levels, Glow Dust is hard to find - yes , I do use the Enchanted Leashing Collars - and adding it via console - even if you salve your conscience by dropping a heap of gold bars into a river as 'payment' - is less appealing than periodic larceny in that asshole, Farengar's, study ?

what do you think about buying the additional collars from merchants instead of them respawning, i think the kaajiit merchants might stock those as well as the cat in the felglow slaver camp

[Farsh-nuke]

2 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

never thought to look, i make that trip to dragonsreach once to get those and never look back. but looking at the items i see the book isn't set to respawn with the other items so maybe it was intentional from layam

but you're right the recipe is shit, why in hell he gave it such rare ingredients only to add respawning collars makes no sense.

what do you think about buying the additional collars from merchants instead of them respawning, i think the kaajiit merchants might stock those as well as the cat in the felglow slaver camp

An option to buy them would be great but I like them respawning.

[DonQuiWho]

4 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

but you're right the recipe is shit, why in hell he gave it such rare ingredients only to add respawning collars makes no sense.

 

what do you think about buying the additional collars from merchants instead of them respawning, i think the kaajiit merchants might stock those as well as the cat in the felglow slaver camp

 

Thanks for the reply/query

 

For context on my thoughts, I play with mods as adjuncts to spice up the main game.  I ALWAYS play that/most of its questlines, with mods being included as eccentricities/hindrances/PITA/side professions to add a theme and difficulty level.  And I NEVER cheat - no fast travel etc,  I don't even cheat at getting those *S£^**$^* DD Crafting Books from College of Winterhold LOL

 

EXCEPT for getting early level glow dust, via the console. I couldn't agree more that including that in the recipe is weird.  I salve my conscience by smelting septims into gold bars and throwing those off a bridge somewhere. 

 

So vendorising PAHE supplies would probably be a good thing. 

 

Way way back in time there was an LE mod with a PAHE vendor set up near Pelagia Farm, but my recollection was that it was really to sell 'special non lethal archery stuff' to assist capture (they NEVER ever worked BTW) but the price levels were way too high on a fresh game and having only one location at Whiterun was a pain. 

 

You'd need to work out some sensible pricing structure and locations.  I'd go for permanent locations/vendor types rather than the Caravans tho' as you can go game 'weeks' without being able to find one of those - short of tagging the Kats so that you can then use the map to see where they are at any given time, something a bit too much like 'cheating' for my own taste 

 

And as there will still be those others, like Farsh-Nuke has stated, who LIKE the respawning, rather than spoil their gameplay, can't you just add a respawn ON/OFF toggle?  The functionality is already there so why risk taking it out?

 

Hope that helps in some limited way

[Farsh-nuke]

When I first played diary of mine the magic collars didn't work to stop slaves running away (Tak blessedly patched that within a day. You can always not use ther masgic collars if you fiond them cheaty or unimmersive) I found that within a few hours of play the usual tension was gone because if the hyper rare magic collars do nothing a basic collar will do.

Similarly having the magic leashes be expensive but with a respawning three or 4 on Farengars desk means you have enough to get a few starter slaves but that you then have to spend time playing the game before you can get more, training them up in the process. It's really quite an ingenius bit of gameplay design in that it encourages frugality when it comes to the slaves you capture.

Like sure you could grind if you wanted to. I could grind iron daggers or whatever until I have daedric if I wanted to. It's ca simple intuitive bit of game design that encourages a certain kind of play and tension. Some people play differently and that's fine. You can not use the respawning magic collars if you find them too cheaty

[Antiope_Apollonia]

10 minutes ago, Farsh-nuke said:

You can not use the respawning magic collars if you find them too cheaty

They're not just "cheaty"; they're counterproductive.  You're making the training process much more tedious than it needs to be if you take attempting to escape out of the equation.  Punishing escape attempts is the single biggest training opportunity you get. 

 

Plus, it just makes the slaves less believable characters.  I get that there's magic in the world of Tamriel, but the leash collars just feel like handwavium rather than a consistent application of Skyrim magic.  The different ways different slaves react to being collared is one of the interesting things DoM adds.  Some just relentlessly try to escape until you break them (60 resignation, not "broken" mood), but that's pretty rare.  Some are too scared to ever try to escape, and they're basically just catatonic balls of tears.  Some repeatedly call for help, but never run away.  Some try a mixture of strategies.  Etc.

[Farsh-nuke]

25 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

They're not just "cheaty"; they're counterproductive.  You're making the training process much more tedious than it needs to be if you take attempting to escape out of the equation.  Punishing escape attempts is the single biggest training opportunity you get. 

 

Plus, it just makes the slaves less believable characters.  I get that there's magic in the world of Tamriel, but the leash collars just feel like handwavium rather than a consistent application of Skyrim magic.  The different ways different slaves react to being collared is one of the interesting things DoM adds.  Some just relentlessly try to escape until you break them (60 resignation, not "broken" mood), but that's pretty rare.  Some are too scared to ever try to escape, and they're basically just catatonic balls of tears.  Some repeatedly call for help, but never run away.  Some try a mixture of strategies.  Etc.

Yeah and being a stealth archer is infamously the best way to go in skyrim but I still play heavy armoured mace user with healing or conjuration in the off hand. The optimal or immersive way to play is not the only way to play.

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

They're not just "cheaty"; they're counterproductive.  You're making the training process much more tedious than it needs to be if you take attempting to escape out of the equation.  Punishing escape attempts is the single biggest training opportunity you get. 

 

Plus, it just makes the slaves less believable characters.  I get that there's magic in the world of Tamriel, but the leash collars just feel like handwavium rather than a consistent application of Skyrim magic.  The different ways different slaves react to being collared is one of the interesting things DoM adds.  Some just relentlessly try to escape until you break them (60 resignation, not "broken" mood), but that's pretty rare.  Some are too scared to ever try to escape, and they're basically just catatonic balls of tears.  Some repeatedly call for help, but never run away.  Some try a mixture of strategies.  Etc.

 

Give us a break ...

 

IIRC, I could use a DD caller to the same end.  But the PAHE ones take a bit more work to get so, using that dreadful word, that in itself can be more 'immersive'.  And they look nicer too ... ?

 

Anyway, every slave I catch also gets equipped with a blindfold or hood, a gag, cuffs/ropes and ankle chains/slave boots, so running off is made very very hard to do.

 

And all those restraints are hand crafted too, so the logistics of material acquisition, manufacture, carraige (my poor followers would complain if they thought that I wouldn't enslave them if they did), strategic storage throughout Skyrim, etc, all add to the gameplay - for some of us.  Might not be your style at all, but saying that all this is 'counterproductive' and so on is only the result of YOUR considering it more tedious within the context of your gameplay .... ?

 

So how about just live, and let live? ?

[DonQuiWho]

1 hour ago, Farsh-nuke said:

Yeah and being a stealth archer is infamously the best way to go in skyrim but I still play heavy armoured mace user with healing or conjuration in the off hand. The optimal or immersive way to play is not the only way to play.

 

Infamy at last.  I'm a stealth archer with a friendly weapon ...

[ace400]

Hi, i am somewhat new here and was wondering if PAHE works for Skyrim AE??? i searched through here and couldnt find an answer. Also i installed it, but its not there despite no errors.

[CliftonJD]

7 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

So vendorising PAHE supplies would probably be a good thing. 

 

Way way back in time there was an LE mod with a PAHE vendor set up near Pelagia Farm, but my recollection was that it was really to sell 'special non lethal archery stuff' to assist capture (they NEVER ever worked BTW) but the price levels were way too high on a fresh game and having only one location at Whiterun was a pain. 

 

You'd need to work out some sensible pricing structure and locations.  I'd go for permanent locations/vendor types rather than the Caravans tho' as you can go game 'weeks' without being able to find one of those - short of tagging the Kats so that you can then use the map to see where they are at any given time, something a bit too much like 'cheating' for my own taste 

that was Paradise Halls Family Feud, made for a much older version of paradise halls, its weapon enchantment lost ability to function when original paradise halls upgraded to 7.0 and the weapon cost was based on those enchantments so you can't really change the cost in those regards, but i can make it work if somebody wants to port the meshes over from Le. 

should be able to work out vendor locations tho

8 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

And as there will still be those others, like Farsh-Nuke has stated, who LIKE the respawning, rather than spoil their gameplay, can't you just add a respawn ON/OFF toggle?  The functionality is already there so why risk taking it out?

 

Hope that helps in some limited way

dunno of a way of adding a toggle to the respawn flag assigned to placed items so that would come down to an extra esp with still no fomod

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

They're not just "cheaty"; they're counterproductive.  You're making the training process much more tedious than it needs to be if you take attempting to escape out of the equation.  Punishing escape attempts is the single biggest training opportunity you get. 

it only seems more tedious cuz tak has changed it to a different mod outside of the paradise halls and pahe perspective. in pahe the early stages aren't just good for training them not to run, but for training them to fight. once their combat training is high enough, you start respect training.

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Plus, it just makes the slaves less believable characters.  I get that there's magic in the world of Tamriel, but the leash collars just feel like handwavium rather than a consistent application of Skyrim magic. 

the only thing handwavium about it is that sse doesn't support working chain physics like Le had as these are intended to be leashing collars. 

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

The different ways different slaves react to being collared is one of the interesting things DoM adds.  Some just relentlessly try to escape until you break them (60 resignation, not "broken" mood), but that's pretty rare.  Some are too scared to ever try to escape, and they're basically just catatonic balls of tears.  Some repeatedly call for help, but never run away.  Some try a mixture of strategies.  Etc.

another thing missing in skyrim is npc lockpicking. if you're looking for a more immersive feeling to leash collars, there should be a lock level multiplier added to the leash collars so the escape chances could be based on their lockpicking skills and if your slaves get too escapey, you can buy or forge better locks. this is why i don't believe in the dom way of doing things, that there's no possible way of restraining your slaves that can't be escaped from, That to me is the immersion breaker

[CliftonJD]

5 minutes ago, ace400 said:

Hi, i am somewhat new here and was wondering if PAHE works for Skyrim AE??? i searched through here and couldnt find an answer. Also i installed it, but its not there despite no errors.

other users have already made the switch and report it to be working, no idea why its not installing for you. best i can think of would be to try a different mod manager or manual install it to the data folder

[ace400]

2 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

other users have already made the switch and report it to be working, no idea why its not installing for you. best i can think of would be to try a different mod manager or manual install it to the data folder

Thank you, at least i know that it can work now ^^ 

 

I will dive in and hopefully find the problem