sse Paradise Halls Enhanced (pahe) Special Edition with the customary addons

[CliftonJD]

10 minutes ago, TomahawkChop said:

Hi guys, it just happened now when I got back after yesterday. so I did captured a slave and trained her alot to be left alone in a certain location to initiate prostituion(TDF) however when I got back now the options as a slave are all gone and even the clothes I gave her were gone. The only option left is to ask how much she earned (same with TDF) but she cannot be trigger as a slave anymore. Well gonna try to reload an older save and see if it happens again. 

what version of tdf are you using, current version is designed to remove the slave from the roster when leaving them to work on there own

[alternateaccounts]

Trying this mod out for the first time since oldrim. I notice it's still stuck on the old misaligned/bugged ZAZ animations. Any way to disable the animation filter?

[CliftonJD]

42 minutes ago, alternateaccounts said:

Trying this mod out for the first time since oldrim. I notice it's still stuck on the old misaligned/bugged ZAZ animations. Any way to disable the animation filter?

zaz has an mcm option to disable its filter

[Antiope_Apollonia]

8 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

should be working now, something else i forgot to mention in the change log is the sneaking at your slaves should no longer lead to pickpocket while they're following

That's great!

 

What's the status of disallowing slaves from picking up weapons?  I know you'd said you thought you'd figured out a way to do it, but I haven't seen it in any changelogs.  If fixing this in AI packages or whatever you had in mind doesn't work out, maybe a bandaid solution could be simply to create a dagger with no meshes and low damage—I guess match the unarmed base of 4—that is given to slaves through a dialogue toggle but kept hidden in their inventories like outfits?  Ideally, you have a better solution, but if not, I think that could work.

 

Also, what's the status of applying the "mandate nudity" rule to AYGAS slaves?

[sidfu1]

how do you get those other sex topics like  "get on top of me" and such. i don't see any of those. maybe its because im playing a  herm? or is DOM causing those topics to now show?

[TrollAutokill]

13 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

should be working now, something else i forgot to mention in the change log is the sneaking at your slaves should no longer lead to pickpocket while they're following

I noticed you added followers to player's teammate, so that was it. Doesn't it make the slaves fight with players?

 

Or did you lower their aggresivity to zero?

Edited June 4, 2022 by TrollAutokill

[TrollAutokill]

3 hours ago, sidfu1 said:

how do you get those other sex topics like  "get on top of me" and such. i don't see any of those. maybe its because im playing a  herm? or is DOM causing those topics to now show?

Could be that the seq file was not regenerated.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

By the way...

  

On 5/31/2022 at 8:08 PM, CliftonJD said:

no slave patch added means you get all the same hookers as the base mod had, but with no names in dialogues.

On 5/31/2022 at 11:20 PM, CliftonJD said:

think in the future we need to crack the code on a method of pointing out the whore to fix the name bugs in dialogue

So could this approach be applied to AYGAS to overcome the nightmare that is trying to sell a particular slave?

Edited June 4, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[CliftonJD]

10 hours ago, sidfu1 said:

how do you get those other sex topics like  "get on top of me" and such. i don't see any of those. maybe its because im playing a  herm? or is DOM causing those topics to now show?

unfortunately that dialogue is gender biased according to vanilla skyrim to males only. female players get the closest equivalent to it of "Wear this strapon and lay there." so far the only positive method i've seen for detecting the sexlab gender can't be done thru dialogue. in the future i'd like to try using an older sexlab method using a gender faction to see if that still works for humans

7 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

I noticed you added followers to player's teammate, so that was it. Doesn't it make the slaves fight with players?

 

Or did you lower their aggresivity to zero?

according to the wiki it doesn't list that as 1 of the features, but somebody before me must have worried the same for it to have previously been set to combat slaves only--this will take some testing of slaves not told to fight

18 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

By the way...

  

So could this approach be applied to AYGAS to overcome the nightmare that is trying to sell a particular slave?

hypothetically yes, once that method is discovered it can be used for aygas as well

12 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

What's the status of disallowing slaves from picking up weapons?  I know you'd said you thought you'd figured out a way to do it, but I haven't seen it in any changelogs.  If fixing this in AI packages or whatever you had in mind doesn't work out, maybe a bandaid solution could be simply to create a dagger with no meshes and low damage—I guess match the unarmed base of 4—that is given to slaves through a dialogue toggle but kept hidden in their inventories like outfits?  Ideally, you have a better solution, but if not, I think that could work.

1 of the previous changes i had changed the behavior packages to disallow world interaction...but that seems to have worked about as well as preventing them from dancing to bards. not a bad idea to give them an invisible dagger, but they're not going to treat it as a punch. we won't see the dagger they swing at the enemy. if you still wanna try it, sure

12 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Also, what's the status of applying the "mandate nudity" rule to AYGAS slaves?

still on my list to try the direct approach with aygas...i just keep forgetting 

[sidfu1]

2 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

unfortunately that dialogue is gender biased according to vanilla skyrim to males only. female players get the closest equivalent to it of "Wear this strapon and lay there." so far the only positive method i've seen for detecting the sexlab gender can't be done thru dialogue. in the future i'd like to try using an older sexlab method using a gender faction to see if that still works for humans

if that dont work maybe see if you can add a  option in mcm to just enable and it displays all the  dialogue ignoring gender?

[CliftonJD]

9 minutes ago, sidfu1 said:

if that dont work maybe see if you can add a  option in mcm to just enable and it displays all the  dialogue ignoring gender?

ahh, but the mcm is also only read thru the scripts so theoretically 1 option would be just as easy as the other. think right now its more the challenge of what needs to be done to get the data from the script read by the dialogue, normally the dialogue runs the script based on the dialogue, but this would be running the dialogue based on the script data

[TrollAutokill]

2 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

So could this approach be applied to AYGAS to overcome the nightmare that is trying to sell a particular slave?

One way to make it work would be to only present slaves from different actor bases, change the actor base name during the dialogue and then revert it.

Edited June 4, 2022 by TrollAutokill

[Antiope_Apollonia]

13 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

1 of the previous changes i had changed the behavior packages to disallow world interaction...but that seems to have worked about as well as preventing them from dancing to bards.

Hm.  I feel like the bard change has worked quite well, no?

 

13 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

not a bad idea to give them an invisible dagger, but they're not going to treat it as a punch. we won't see the dagger they swing at the enemy. if you still wanna try it, sure

Well, I haven't really experimented with a pugilist slave in quite a while since I hadn't seen anything in the patch notes.  If you did try something, maybe it merits some testing.  But I think the animation issue is soluble.  I don't remember the details, but I think I recall a bug with a dagger that was incorrectly using unarmed animations.  And I'm pretty sure there are some mods out there that add Katar-style weapons that use unarmed animations.  So, although I have no idea how it's done, I think it should be possible to have a dagger use unarmed animations.  It wouldn't necessarily be that terrible if it had dagger animations, though.

 

The invisible dagger definitely isn't a perfect solution, regardless.  One bug it wouldn't fix is that, if you put a slave in a DD straitjacket or bondage mittens or the like, that'll mostly prevent them from picking up melee weapons, but they'll still take staves.  Since the bondage would probably prevent them from equipping the invisible dagger, I'm guessing they'd still go for the staves.  And the other issue would be that it'd scale off of the One-Handed skill and use One-Handed enchantments instead of Unarmed enchantments—where Unarmed enchantments are way stronger, relatively speaking.  It also nerfs Khajiit and Argonians unless you come up with some system to give them daggers with 22 and 10 damage respectively instead of the humanoids' 4. 

 

Still, in spite of those limitations, if no other solution is available, it might be a worthwhile interim solution, as I'd think it'd be relatively simple to implement—although what do I know, I can barely make dialogue work, lol.

 

Or, it wouldn't solve the problem for pugilist slaves, but at least for me, it would render it redundant—if we could give slaves a combat package where they'll reliably use conjured weapons.  

Edited June 5, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[DonQuiWho]

@CliftonJD

 

I was looking at some of the comments here and on the DOM thread about NPC status, ie protected vs essential, and death in general, and it sent me off on a tangent on the dead body etc stuff

 

Being a simpleton, my grasp of the basics is that when a slave is 'created', a clone is made in situ to carry on in the game, and the original NPC is shipped off to languish in the 'holding cell/whatever'

 

Where does the game think the 'original' NPC actually is?  Are they definitely all in the 'holding cell', or are all, or even just maybe some, still thought of as being at the enslavement location?

 

Reason for asking is that if any were being 'seen' as in the latter, ie the actual enslavement locations, would that account for the weirdness sometimes seen where mods like OBIS etc reclone some of them, as living, T-posed, or just as plain old dead corpses ?☠️, even when the new slave has moved on to a more fulfilled (or should that be 'full filled' ?) life?

 

Clutching at straws really, but thought it might be worth an ask ?

 

 

[TrollAutokill]

4 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

@CliftonJD

 

I was looking at some of the comments here and on the DOM thread about NPC status, ie protected vs essential, and death in general, and it sent me off on a tangent on the dead body etc stuff

 

Being a simpleton, my grasp of the basics is that when a slave is 'created', a clone is made in situ to carry on in the game, and the original NPC is shipped off to languish in the 'holding cell/whatever'

 

Where does the game think the 'original' NPC actually is?  Are they definitely all in the 'holding cell', or are all, or even just maybe some, still thought of as being at the enslavement location?

 

Reason for asking is that if any were being 'seen' as in the latter, ie the actual enslavement locations, would that account for the weirdness sometimes seen where mods like OBIS etc reclone some of them, as living, T-posed, or just as plain old dead corpses ?☠️, even when the new slave has moved on to a more fulfilled (or should that be 'full filled' ?) life?

 

Clutching at straws really, but thought it might be worth an ask ?

 

 

Cloning is followed by a disable/death event on the original actor, forcing all the quests needing this actor alive to fail. Also the clone will have a different ref id but same base id. So for the game it is a different actor and the original actor is not active anymore.

Edited June 5, 2022 by TrollAutokill

[CliftonJD]

14 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Hm.  I feel like the bard change has worked quite well, no?

ahh, then no idea why its working for some and not others...unless there's something that's telling them its ok to sandbox. like some follower mods will allow sandboxing without using the wait command and aft quite often effects the combat slaves

14 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Well, I haven't really experimented with a pugilist slave in quite a while since I hadn't seen anything in the patch notes.  If you did try something, maybe it merits some testing.  But I think the animation issue is soluble.  I don't remember the details, but I think I recall a bug with a dagger that was incorrectly using unarmed animations.  And I'm pretty sure there are some mods out there that add Katar-style weapons that use unarmed animations.  So, although I have no idea how it's done, I think it should be possible to have a dagger use unarmed animations.  It wouldn't necessarily be that terrible if it had dagger animations, though.

 

The invisible dagger definitely isn't a perfect solution, regardless.  One bug it wouldn't fix is that, if you put a slave in a DD straitjacket or bondage mittens or the like, that'll mostly prevent them from picking up melee weapons, but they'll still take staves.  Since the bondage would probably prevent them from equipping the invisible dagger, I'm guessing they'd still go for the staves.  And the other issue would be that it'd scale off of the One-Handed skill and use One-Handed enchantments instead of Unarmed enchantments—where Unarmed enchantments are way stronger, relatively speaking.  It also nerfs Khajiit and Argonians unless you come up with some system to give them daggers with 22 and 10 damage respectively instead of the humanoids' 4. 

 

Still, in spite of those limitations, if no other solution is available, it might be a worthwhile interim solution, as I'd think it'd be relatively simple to implement—although what do I know, I can barely make dialogue work, lol.

 

ok, can look into that

14 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

One bug it wouldn't fix is that, if you put a slave in a DD straitjacket or bondage mittens or the like, that'll mostly prevent them from picking up melee weapons, but they'll still take staves.  Since the bondage would probably prevent them from equipping the invisible dagger, I'm guessing they'd still go for the staves.

i don't know if dd prevents the slave from picking up items, but i do know it doesn't reliably prevent them from equipping the weapons. sometimes it does, sometimes no. quite often i'll equip slaves with a straitjacket and sword, tho sometimes i'll see after equip dd kicks in and unequips the weapons

14 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Or, it wouldn't solve the problem for pugilist slaves, but at least for me, it would render it redundant—if we could give slaves a combat package where they'll reliably use conjured weapons.  

come to think of it i don't recall ever seeing an npc use conjured weapons in skyrim

5 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

@CliftonJD

 

I was looking at some of the comments here and on the DOM thread about NPC status, ie protected vs essential, and death in general, and it sent me off on a tangent on the dead body etc stuff

 

Being a simpleton, my grasp of the basics is that when a slave is 'created', a clone is made in situ to carry on in the game, and the original NPC is shipped off to languish in the 'holding cell/whatever'

 

 

 

Reason for asking is that if any were being 'seen' as in the latter, ie the actual enslavement locations, would that account for the weirdness sometimes seen where mods like OBIS etc reclone some of them, as living, T-posed, or just as plain old dead corpses ?☠️, even when the new slave has moved on to a more fulfilled (or should that be 'full filled' ?) life?

 

Clutching at straws really, but thought it might be worth an ask ?

 

 

1 hour ago, TrollAutokill said:

forcing all the quests needing this actor alive to fail.

most quests(not all) still see the clone as the same actor so for example cicero and loreius could both be enslaved and still complete the quest...tho cicero loses dialogue after completing the quest.

5 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

Where does the game think the 'original' NPC actually is?  Are they definitely all in the 'holding cell', or are all,...

the few rare occurrences i've seen pointing to the original actor specifically always found them moved to the cloning cell, but so far only seen that happen to mod quest npc's. some versions of sd+ i found the quest would break after the "owner" got moved to the cloning cell(haven't tested in a while to know if that's still current)

5 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

are all, or even just maybe some, still thought of as being at the enslavement location?

usually that only happens if either its a unique set to respawn(the respawn would then happen at that location) Or if something went wrong during enslavement so the original didn't get moved. some examples were papyrus errors like can't enable a disable parent or can't disable an enable parent(paraphrasing, can't remember exact wording on the error)

5 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

would that account for the weirdness sometimes seen where mods like OBIS etc reclone some of them, as living, T-posed

t-posed is always a sign something is horribly wrong so the above could fit into that category, but as a result of what went wrong and not the initial cause for the problem as obis on its own wouldn't cause that

[DonQuiWho]

45 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

ahh, then no idea why its working for some and not others...unless there's something that's telling them its ok to sandbox. like some follower mods will allow sandboxing without using the wait command and aft quite often effects the combat slaves

ok, can look into that

i don't know if dd prevents the slave from picking up items, but i do know it doesn't reliably prevent them from equipping the weapons. sometimes it does, sometimes no. quite often i'll equip slaves with a straitjacket and sword, tho sometimes i'll see after equip dd kicks in and unequips the weapons

come to think of it i don't recall ever seeing an npc use conjured weapons in skyrim

most quests(not all) still see the clone as the same actor so for example cicero and loreius could both be enslaved and still complete the quest...tho cicero loses dialogue after completing the quest.

the few rare occurrences i've seen pointing to the original actor specifically always found them moved to the cloning cell, but so far only seen that happen to mod quest npc's. some versions of sd+ i found the quest would break after the "owner" got moved to the cloning cell(haven't tested in a while to know if that's still current)

usually that only happens if either its a unique set to respawn(the respawn would then happen at that location) Or if something went wrong during enslavement so the original didn't get moved. some examples were papyrus errors like can't enable a disable parent or can't disable an enable parent(paraphrasing, can't remember exact wording on the error)

t-posed is always a sign something is horribly wrong so the above could fit into that category, but as a result of what went wrong and not the initial cause for the problem as obis on its own wouldn't cause that

 

@TrollAutokill @CliftonJD

 

Thank you both for being as kind as give such a full explanation to my dribblings!

 

 

[CliftonJD]

19 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

@TrollAutokill @CliftonJD

 

Thank you both for being as kind as give such a full explanation to my dribblings!

 

 

welcome

[Antiope_Apollonia]

3 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

i don't know if dd prevents the slave from picking up items

Mostly, but not perfectly.  And, for some reason, not at all for staves.  

  

3 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

come to think of it i don't recall ever seeing an npc use conjured weapons in skyrim

There are a few, but it's quite rare.  I know there's a cave of spellswords somewhere who use Bound Sword, but I don't remember exactly who they are to look for them.  And I know there's a rare random world encounter with some strong bandits, the leader of which uses Bound Battleaxe; it's something I only see like once every fifth playthrough or so, so I haven't been able to get a FormID for the leader.  I'm pretty sure they're both Vanilla, but it's marginally possible that the latter might be part of Full Random—I doubt it, though.

 

3 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

t-posed is always a sign something is horribly wrong so the above could fit into that category, but as a result of what went wrong and not the initial cause for the problem as obis on its own wouldn't cause that

I don't use OBIS, but I often find that respawns of bandits I've enslaved spawn T-posed.  At least I think that's the pattern.  It definitely never happens to the initial spawns in a location—only to respawns after the location has been cleared.  Mercifully, you can "fix" them with console "tai", but it's still annoying.

[tzkfaci]

Anyone know how to stop the Ritual Master ('man who cried wolf' quest) from despawning when completing the quest? tried re-cloning, renaming, resetting.

[Neon5775]

On 5/28/2022 at 6:19 PM, DonQuiWho said:

 

If you really are starting afresh, could I suggest that you use Mod Organiser 2?  You're not likely to regret it

never used it before and i saw a few videos saying vortex was easier.....but yea i can give it a try and see how it is

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, Neon5775 said:

never used it before and i saw a few videos saying vortex was easier.....but yea i can give it a try and see how it is

Honestly, the MO2 chauvinism is rather out of date at this point.  In the past, it made sense, because it really was vastly superior to the old Nexus Mod Manager in some really important ways.  But so is Vortex.  MO2 and Vortex both do pretty much the same things.  Vortex probably is easier up to the point where it's not.  I guess that sounds glib, but what I mean is that for most things, Vortex is probably easier to learn and use, but when you get into some trickier situations requiring more complex management, it's probably easier to figure out how to solve them with MO2.  But at the end of the day, you can handle pretty much anything with either of them—they're two routes to the same end.

 

Once you're used to either one, switching doesn't make a lot of sense, because although they have largely equivalent capabilities, they have very different interfaces.  Which is probably the other part of why you still see so much MO2 chauvinism.  In the past, it was the only good choice, so all the old timers use it, and although Vortex is similarly capable, its interface will seem pretty unintuitive if you're expecting it to work like MO2—think Windows/macOS—so naturally, the veterans are going to be vexed by Vortex.  

[DonQuiWho]

38 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Honestly, the MO2 chauvinism is rather out of date at this point.  In the past, it made sense, because it really was vastly superior to the old Nexus Mod Manager in some really important ways.  But so is Vortex.  MO2 and Vortex both do pretty much the same things.  Vortex probably is easier up to the point where it's not.  I guess that sounds glib, but what I mean is that for most things, Vortex is probably easier to learn and use, but when you get into some trickier situations requiring more complex management, it's probably easier to figure out how to solve them with MO2.  But at the end of the day, you can handle pretty much anything with either of them—they're two routes to the same end.

 

Once you're used to either one, switching doesn't make a lot of sense, because although they have largely equivalent capabilities, they have very different interfaces.  Which is probably the other part of why you still see so much MO2 chauvinism.  In the past, it was the only good choice, so all the old timers use it, and although Vortex is similarly capable, its interface will seem pretty unintuitive if you're expecting it to work like MO2—think Windows/macOS—so naturally, the veterans are going to be vexed by Vortex.  

 

I wear my Patriotic Old Timer badge with pride ....

 

 

Go clone a Nord ... ?

[CliftonJD]

On 6/5/2022 at 5:07 AM, DonQuiWho said:

would that account for the weirdness sometimes seen where mods like OBIS etc reclone some of them, as living, T-posed,

18 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I don't use OBIS, but I often find that respawns of bandits I've enslaved spawn T-posed.  At least I think that's the pattern.  It definitely never happens to the initial spawns in a location—only to respawns after the location has been cleared.  Mercifully, you can "fix" them with console "tai", but it's still annoying.

i have a theory about the t-posed actors, but not really sure how to prove it. my theory is, its not really a bug from your normal mods, but from an add-on feature. think there's a hsh posing dialogue on pahe slaves that by itself has no function until you add fnis spells. my theory is that fnis spells does something to the actor base to cause t-pose on respawns. maybe if you were to use that only on 1 slave or only on select slaves, it would prevent the other slaves from respawning t-posed. suppose i could add that as well to help test, only a hunch so far, not certain that's the cause

[Antiope_Apollonia]

4 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

my theory is that fnis spells does something to the actor base to cause t-pose on respawns.

This seems plausible.  I only added FNIS Spells relatively recently, because it was needed to make something else work (I have no chronoception, so don't ask me how recently, lol).  And I've only encountered the T-posing respawns in the last few playthroughs.

 

4 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

maybe if you were to use that only on 1 slave or only on select slaves, it would prevent the other slaves from respawning t-posed.

Use what, exactly?  I never use any of the actual spells from FNIS Spells manually—I just have it installed as a requirement for something else.