Tu te lances dans le modding ? Tu fais quel genre de mod ? j'ai loupé un épisode semble t-il.

Fantastic work so far. Take your time . ?

5 minutes ago, Cerral said:

Tu te lances dans le modding ? Tu fais quel genre de mod ? j'ai loupé un épisode semble t-il.

Oui, je n'en ai parlé qu'à demi-mot sur le Discord...

Comme tu sais peut-être j'étais un énorme fan de Slaverun mais le mod est imparfait à mon goût et son créateur n'a plus mis les pieds ici depuis quelques années.  Du coup j'ai décidé de refaire mon propre Slaverun (avec du blackjack et des prostituées  )

Mais il y a beaucoup à faire et je fais ça à mon rythme.  Ici je fais le level design pour l'instant, mais toutes les suggestions sont bienvenues.

On 6/7/2021 at 2:55 PM, mangalo said:

 

Oui, je n'en ai parlé qu'à demi-mot sur le Discord...

Comme tu sais peut-être j'étais un énorme fan de Slaverun mais le mod est imparfait à mon goût et son créateur n'a plus mis les pieds ici depuis quelques années.  Du coup j'ai décidé de refaire mon propre Slaverun (avec du blackjack et des prostituées  )

 

Mais il y a beaucoup à faire et je fais ça à mon rythme.  Ici je fais le level design pour l'instant, mais toutes les suggestions sont bienvenues.

Excellente nouvelle! Je te souhaite bonne chance dans ton projet.

Je vais suivre soit en certain.

On peux dire que c'est un projet ambitieux. J'ai bien aimé Slaverun même si je n'ai

pas voulu le terminer.

Je me suis toujours demandé pourquoi d'ailleurs personne n'a fait un mod de ce type

dans Vendeaume et dans Solitude. Les haut elfes qui enlève des gens sous le prétexte d'adoré Talos et les Nordiques qui

enlève les étrangers qui croit qui servent le Domaine. 

Bonne raison pour vendre des gens comme esclaves et être approuvé par les locaux!

Le contexte serait la tout développant l'idée. C'est ce qui manquait à Slaverun d'une certaines façons.

On 6/10/2021 at 2:48 AM, lcewolf said:

 

Excellente nouvelle! Je te souhaite bonne chance dans ton projet.

Je vais suivre soit en certain.

 

On peux dire que c'est un projet ambitieux. J'ai bien aimé Slaverun même si je n'ai

pas voulu le terminer.

 

Je me suis toujours demandé pourquoi d'ailleurs personne n'a fait un mod de ce type

dans Vendeaume et dans Solitude. Les haut elfes qui enlève des gens sous le prétexte d'adoré Talos et les Nordiques qui

enlève les étrangers qui croit qui servent le Domaine. 

 

Bonne raison pour vendre des gens comme esclaves et être approuvé par les locaux!

Le contexte serait la tout développant l'idée. C'est ce qui manquait à Slaverun d'une certaines façons.

En fait je suis convaincu que Slaverun a pris les bonnes décisions en terme de design, que Kenjoka en ait été conscient ou non.  Tout le monde a une manière différente de jouer et donc pour que le concept plaise à un maximum de personnes il faut qu'il soit le moins imbriqué dans l'histoire du jeu ou du personnage possible.

Tu suggères par exemple une histoire qui tourne autour des hauts elfes, mais cela va casser l'histoire pour ceux qui sont eux mêmes des elfes ou qui sont de leur côté.  Le meilleur moyen d'introduire l'esclavage, je crois que c'est de le faire venir dans Skyrim sans aucun lien avec l'histoire de la région, et sans aucun lien avec le joueur.  Les esclavagistes n'auraient pas un but politique mais seulement une recherche d'argent/de pouvoir.  De cette manière, leur arrivée et leur départ n'influencent pas le scénario du jeu

C'est ce qui avait été fait de base dans Slaverun avec Bellamy etc et qui faisait en sorte que l'histoire du mod tienne la route.  Mais ensuite l'auteur a ajouté des Daedras et personnelement je trouve que le mod a perdu le contrôle à ce moment là.

Par contre j'aurais besoin d'aide pour trouver de bonnes inspirations / bons (nouveaux) personnages comme esclavagistes

Je plussoie.

Mettre des thalmors risque de mettre le boxon dans le jeu, surtout tout ce qui est lié à la guerre civile.

Le plus simple effectivement est de créer une faction purement intéressée par le profit, et neutre politiquement.

Même les vampires, c'est risqué (garde de l'aube, toussa).

Pourquoi pas une bande de bandits dirigés en sous main des survivants de la maison Dress ? (maison Dagoth, c'est risqué... et les Dress sont plus connus pour l'esclavage).

Bien sur, ça va reposer sur la corruption des élites locales. La guerre coute cher, toussa...

Commence donc par petites touches, genre couvre feu, des amendes... et un jour, on voir une personne être vendue pour dettes ou impôt impayé, etc...

Tu peux aussi commencer par un "on va asservir uniquement les bandits/hors la loi pour leur faire rendre service à la communauté, toussa"... pour au final imposer le système dans sa totalité.

Tu dois aussi penser au ratio libres/esclaves. A Athènes, ça pouvait aller jusqu'à 60%. Pire à Sparte, mais c'est encore un autre système.

Si je me souviens bien, les gens dans Skyrim sont déjà des serfs : ils n'ont pas le droit de posséder de terres, tout appartient au jarl, et ils en disposent moyennant un impôt.

Tu peux aussi jouer sur les spécificités locales (la rivalité elfes noirs/nordiques à ventheaume, le clan ronce noir à faillaise, etc...).

A markarth, tu as la rivalité parjures/nordiques... l'un verrait d'un bon œil l'autre groupe renversé.

Solitude est la ville la plus tranquille et riche, avec les autorités impériales toutes proches. Je pense que ça devrait être la plus difficile à "convertir".

Pour les persos, je te conseille de jouer à quelques rpg (y compris des rpg makers de cul ayant pour thème l'esclavage, y en a des biens), la vie d'esclavagistes réels (Tipo Tip, Sneffu, M'siri...), les bouquins au sujet des Drows ou des Duerggar. Tu peux aussi regarder les relations maitres/esclaves (Ali Baba et son esclave Morgiane par exemple)(Spartacus et son lanniste...).

Pour les prostituées, l'antiquité grecque est ton amie : il y beaucoup de biographies de courtisanes grecques, même esclaves de statut.

Les histoires autour des croisades populaires/des enfants, ou pas mal de jeunes femmes ont fini vendues dans des bordels en Italie (d'ailleurs, voici un élément que ton mode se doit de posséder : le but de l'esclavage des femmes est sexuel en premier lieu, les hommes sont plutôt destins au travail. Pour les enfants, faut voir, Mehmet 2 était connu pour bisexuel, pédéraste, si ce n'est pédophile mais là il n'y a pas de preuves).

Vu que les règles autour de sexlab et la morale interdit de toucher aux enfants, je te conseille de les exclure du mod.

Pas de daedra, ça ne sert à rien, sauf si tu veux sacrifier des gens. Au pire tu créé un culte à la con qui achète quelques esclaves pour ses cérémonies, mais ils doivent être juste des clients, pas le centre de l'affaire.

Pas de grosse giga arène non plus, une petite et simple suffit.

Un casino ? bien sur ! une manière également d'introduire l'esclavage en douce (esclavage pour dettes).

Et pour l'écriture des dialogues, la multitude de fanfictions tournant autour de l'esclavage peuvent donner des idées de textes. 

Sur Hentai Foundry tu en as déjà un bon nombre, j'en ai même écrit quelques unes.

It looks good. Keep up the good work.

23 hours ago, Sidewasy said:

It looks good. Keep up the good work.

Thanks, I wasn't sure people were receiving notifications when I update this post

I'll probably soon release an alpha of the HQ as a standard DD shop, at least to deliver something.

4 hours ago, mangalo said:

Thanks, I wasn't sure people were receiving notifications when I update this post

I didn't receive notifications of the post being updated. I randomly decided to reread it, and was pleasantly suprised to find that you had updated it.

Quote

I'll probably soon release an alpha of the HQ as a standard DD shop, at least to deliver something.

That's a good idea. People will be able to provide much better feedback if they can walk around in the HQ than just from images.

I don't think updating/editing the post actually sends out notifications. I would recommend commenting each time you edit the post to signal boost each update.

EDIT: Or maybe there's another way? I don't know enough how the notifications work on this forum.

Will this mod have any storyline? Some subquests that enslaved npc who are trained with pc get sold in front of pc will be very attractive.

53 minutes ago, Muxia said:

Will this mod have any storyline? Some subquests that enslaved npc who are trained with pc get sold in front of pc will be very attractive.

Not a storyline in the sense where the player would play a role.  The idea is to treat the player like any other slave, including getting sold.  I'm not sure I'll go with the 'make slave friends' route, though.

all of your building looks fantastic.

I

Regarding "Storyline" i hope you actually do something there. Because it would be a pitty to not have it used just for "beeing sold" there.

With Something to do i mean to do Tasks there.

Trainings, Small Jobs inside, Serve the Guests during Events, etc.

Just now, coffeeink said:

all of your building looks fantastic.

I

Regarding "Storyline" i hope you actually do something there. Because it would be a pitty to not have it used just for "beeing sold" there.

 

With Something to do i mean to do Tasks there.

Trainings, Small Jobs inside, Serve the Guests during Events, etc.

 

 

Thanks

About the gameplay, that's exactly what I'm aiming to do.  Tasks/quests defined by your role.

Yeah i was reading the first posts. The first posts you had with Content doesn't fit with the Design you do now. "looks at least for me". The other posts were about more like dynamic behavior in a town. tbh i'm very sceptical that this works in the end Skyrim is kinda bitchi sometimes if you change into vanilla behavior.

A little off topic but i think you also want to create something i already started and stopped due simply time issues. But i can share my lessons learned with you.

I also have some big chunks and design Code already lying around for this kind of mod. My lessons learned was => Make Dynamic into defined things. If you want to have sold to a town prepare certain Owners and Houses for this (maybe 2/3 per town)

Also what if dound out if you want to have a task system and you don't want go into a maintance hell is to have the tasks semi dynamic. (Make a Class SlaveTask derrived from Quest and all tasks derrive from that to have propper start/end and validation methods you can call) put them all into a Formlist and select from there) It works like charm and you can easily remove or add tasks without any big issues and or Events. And it's realy easy to get a "Random Task" to create a dynamic day.

Also with this design you can have a big Lib for certain things in your main Mod and a Task/Quest can be developed/tested/maintained as a single instance.

I compared different Design Methods for this and this was for me the most consistent one and even enabled in theory others to easily add new Tasks. (and ofc enable the Player to disable and enable Tasks they really don't like without having tons of if and else like "if AnimalSexEnabled .... "

On 8/22/2021 at 1:04 PM, coffeeink said:

Yeah i was reading the first posts. The first posts you had with Content doesn't fit with the Design you do now. "looks at least for me". The other posts were about more like dynamic behavior in a town. tbh i'm very sceptical that this works in the end Skyrim is kinda bitchi sometimes if you change into vanilla behavior.

 

A little off topic but i think you also want to create something i already started and stopped due simply time issues. But i can share my lessons learned with you.

 

I also have some big chunks and design Code already lying around for this kind of mod. My lessons learned was => Make Dynamic into defined things. If you want to have sold to a town prepare certain Owners and Houses for this (maybe 2/3 per town)

Also what if dound out if you want to have a task system and you don't want go into a maintance hell is to have the tasks semi dynamic. (Make a Class SlaveTask derrived from Quest and all tasks derrive from that to have propper start/end and validation methods you can call) put them all into a Formlist and select from there) It works like charm and you can easily remove or add tasks without any big issues and or Events. And it's realy easy to get a "Random Task" to create a dynamic day.

Also with this design you can have a big Lib for certain things in your main Mod and a Task/Quest can be developed/tested/maintained as a single instance.

 

I compared different Design Methods for this and this was for me the most consistent one and even enabled in theory others to easily add new Tasks. (and ofc enable the Player to disable and enable Tasks they really don't like without having tons of if and else like "if AnimalSexEnabled .... "

To be honest I kind of have to rework those blog entries.  They were bound to change as my expectations face reality.  The scope stays the same, but the way of achieving it may change.  Considering how 'small' cities are, it's probably easier to do it semi-dynamic as you said. 

Captured Dreams and its Manor Slave part was kind of the inspiration here, with dust piles to clean, etc.  But in that mod there were probably placed by hand.  But at the same time if I can avoid cluttering cells and having to deal with compatibility patches, the better.  Maid Slaves are still a long shot, anyway, the design is still open to changes.

I found what was wrong with the AI (probably my wrong usage of DD devices on NPCs) and I still have one cell left to do in the HQ (Training grounds).  But I'm getting comfortable with the CK so I'm not worried about that.  After that I'll release the shop and begin the scripting

Yes i fully understand. I was expecting this

I don't want to get to much into your developing process but i have some additional things what is maybe worth a look for you.

The best mod which comes close to this "Captured Dreams" Manor Slave is Wartimes - the Tweaked Version by monoman. It's not that repetetive as Manor Slave + after the tweaks it's gets a planning factor inside to achieve all tasks and requests. If you want inspiration i can highly recommend it to try it out for seeing how it works. The Favor/Gold System works pretty well. It takes your daytime as a ressource and you need to manage it to trade in for gold/favors/roleplay

The best dynamic Slavery mod i know is Maria. It's a lot of Content with a huge Architecture. tbh. i think one of the biggest mods here from Code/Architecture standpoint. Esp. the Auction/Training is something you could have a look. This is something you could reuse some ideas etc.

Regarding DD Devices on NPCs. be carefull with that and rethink if you really need the full DD framework. it's pretty script heavy and can cause some performance issues. I think you only want them as "outfit/decoratrion" level and you can try to only equip Render devices only and not over the API (i never tried that tbh but DDC is using render devices to hide devices without unequiping it ... i think i will test it right now :P) or you follow the way as it was done in the hydra slave DD equipment and the non DD devices way:  If you want to add ~10 npcs in cageds in devices for ambience i think it makes sense to think about it.

Also i was pretty impressed with DD Contraptions in comparision of ZAD. If you can live without the huge variants of devices i can also recommend to have a detailed look here. It takes care of a lot of problems you usally see with ZAD and the API is pretty simple. Some of the devices even have alligned Sec Animations bound to it and you can enable nearby random NPCs to take use of them. Which makes it more allive. Or you can enably trying to get free or disable it completly.

If you realy want a special ZAD device converted to DDC i think it's not to complicated ->The Rubber quest thing (forgot the name) is adding some new.

I think this mod can be awesome and if you need help for certain Coding things let me know. maybe i can support you/or have something finished already. My Mods are always mot finished because i rly hate working with CK Cells and decoration ... the rest (Coding, Quests etc.) is easy for me ?

1 hour ago, coffeeink said:

Yes i fully understand. I was expecting this

 

I don't want to get to much into your developing process but i have some additional things what is maybe worth a look for you.

 

The best mod which comes close to this "Captured Dreams" Manor Slave is Wartimes - the Tweaked Version by monoman. It's not that repetetive as Manor Slave + after the tweaks it's gets a planning factor inside to achieve all tasks and requests. If you want inspiration i can highly recommend it to try it out for seeing how it works. The Favor/Gold System works pretty well. It takes your daytime as a ressource and you need to manage it to trade in for gold/favors/roleplay

 

The best dynamic Slavery mod i know is Maria. It's a lot of Content with a huge Architecture. tbh. i think one of the biggest mods here from Code/Architecture standpoint. Esp. the Auction/Training is something you could have a look. This is something you could reuse some ideas etc.

 

Regarding DD Devices on NPCs. be carefull with that and rethink if you really need the full DD framework. it's pretty script heavy and can cause some performance issues. I think you only want them as "outfit/decoratrion" level and you can try to only equip Render devices only and not over the API (i never tried that tbh but DDC is using render devices to hide devices without unequiping it ... i think i will test it right now :P) or you follow the way as it was done in the hydra slave DD equipment and the non DD devices way:  If you want to add ~10 npcs in cageds in devices for ambience i think it makes sense to think about it.

Also i was pretty impressed with DD Contraptions in comparision of ZAD. If you can live without the huge variants of devices i can also recommend to have a detailed look here. It takes care of a lot of problems you usally see with ZAD and the API is pretty simple. Some of the devices even have alligned Sec Animations bound to it and you can enable nearby random NPCs to take use of them. Which makes it more allive. Or you can enably trying to get free or disable it completly.

If you realy want a special ZAD device converted to DDC i think it's not to complicated ->The Rubber quest thing (forgot the name) is adding some new.

 

I think this mod can be awesome and if you need help for certain Coding things let me know. maybe i can support you/or have something finished already. My Mods are always mot finished because i rly hate working with CK Cells and decoration ... the rest (Coding, Quests etc.) is easy for me ?

Wartimes and SLS are on my to-read list.  I'll take a look at your suggestions.

I was under the impression that the latest DDs were better in terms of performance, and that a new update is planned.  I guess I kind of have to hit the wall to learn what I should or shouldn't do, otherwise I'll always be waiting for an inexistent perfect solution.

About Contraptions, I originally wanted to use it, but was skeptical of its future.  From what I understand, the Zaz version of Tara and DDc were planning to merge at some point, but it's hasn't happened yet.  When I asked about this on the DDc thread, I only remember a vague answer.  Kimy and Tara seem less active than before, so... yeah... hard to take the risk to use a framework that isn't finished.

Are you talking about Rubber Facility ?  I didn't know that mod used Contraptions. 

Thanks for offering your help, I usually ask technical questions on the LL discord but I might have to find a more specific place

yeah they use Contraptions for some outcomes. The use the Hogtie Pole and a custom Cage.

The Framework itself is working. Wait i show you some code i created for a wartimes extension. I had the first Version with zad but i decided against for several reasons.

First you need to take care of DD (if you activate zad with an Armbinder it just looks akward, DDC takes care for this for you and requips it afterwards)

Second with ZAD i have several Camera issues. i expierenced this less with DDC

Third in my case: You can actually do things. Try to escape, sometime NPC interactions,  and i rly hope they add more things or i will add them myself. (what in Skyrim LL World is missing is actually a good whipping event instead of the 1 handed attack animation)

Allignment: NPCs are tending to glitch out ZAD devices.

Function LockPlayer(int difficulty=0, Actor owner = None)
  	; just move the player and spawn the furniture for my special case
    player.MoveTo(bondageDevice, 5.0, 5.0)
    if(owner != None)
        owner.MoveTo(player, 5.0, 5.0)
    endif
    SpwanFurniture()

    ; bind player
    bondageFurniture.BaseEscapeChance = difficulty
    bondageFurniture.LockPickEscapeChance = difficulty

    bondageFurniture.SendDeviceModEvents = true
    bondageFurniture.AllowPasserbyAction = true
    bondageFurniture.ForceStripActor = (pchsBlacksmithStripPlayer.GetValue()==1)
    bondageFurniture.LockActor(player)
    ;if you are interested oin lock unlock Events
    RegisterForModEvent("DDC_DeviceEvent", "OnFurnitureAction")
Endfunction

You can try Contraptions in DCLs own Inn in Riverwood or i use them in my wartimes extension blacksmithquest.

From Player Perspective DDC is the better and stable FW.  But i could imagine (just gut feeling) think bound NPCs are causing more script load.

It would be somehow nice to realy meassure performance in Skyrim/Papyrus than just gut feeling. Not my regular workstyl.e

DDs got better in performance but as far as i understood mostly in equipping and removing. The eventhandling, devices itself etc. should be still the same. I think it's not an issue as long as it is controlled. => if you have 2,3 npcsin a small room you will not notice anything. If you put 20 and let them run through whiterun (like hydra slavegirl is doing)

I think we need this location as a player home version?. Perfectly done location without "super useful" and "immersive" things like exposition with mannequins and stands for every artifact in game, or interior|exterior in skyrim-baroque style with 20+ static wardrobes that use all free space of house at maximum.

On 8/22/2021 at 12:03 AM, mangalo said:

 

Not a storyline in the sense where the player would play a role.  The idea is to treat the player like any other slave, including getting sold.  I'm not sure I'll go with the 'make slave friends' route, though.

well, didn't you say you want to reform Slaverun reloaded?:P
the story is good as it is it only needs some polishing for the scripts, and a firm hand for the locations!:P

progressing in the project ?

hey

salut et felicitations pour le projet

oui fais gaffe de ne pas trop le charger ; DD5 c'est pas du tout une bonne idee d'utiliser

il y a quelques idees a prendre dans survival (monoman) par exemple le cum addiction

en tout cas kenjoka a mon avis a trop chargé le slaverun (la construction de l'arene) aussi bien que plusieurs autres auteurs le font malheureusement :

DD5, DCL , SD+ et meme Laura's bondage shop comence tous a etre TROP chargé ce que fais qu'on dois jouer avec ou sans car rajouter des mods dans le meme playtrough deviens de plus en plus difficile

donc fais gaffe a ca aussi

bon courrage !