Sexlab Survival

[Monoman1]

56 minutes ago, -alpha- said:

A possible solution to the Mage not a Mage problem.

Just ask the player?

In the MCM have a box that toggles Are you a mage or not 

If they chose am a Mage, nothing happens and game plays as it normally does now.

If player is not a mage you add the anti mage debuff spell reducing magicka and magika rengen to 0 (or -9999 which prevents quickly downing a potion to cast a spell)

 

this should still allow you to cast debug spells while preventing casting any meaningful spells. right?

 

Theres already a toggle for the magic licence which is essentially the same thing...?

 

Btw I like the current system of magicka drain. Yes you can throw back a magicka potion but it's not really sustainable. 

25 minutes ago, UnEvenSteven said:

Regarding the Mage/Not-a-Mage discussion, have you considered simply going by skill level? In the base game guards will start making comments about your character's various skills when they reach level 30 in a particular skill.

 

Sure that seems low but seeing how strict the guards in SLS are being labeled a mage when a magic skill reaches 30 would fit in well and be consistent with the base game. I mean when the guards start asking your character to conjure up a warm bed they obviously see them as mage thus locking a collar on your character.

I think it'll probably suffer from the same problem as magicka points except you need to check 6 skills instead of one actor value. Those problems are:

Different race starting skill points and

Erroneous results based on debuffed skills (not certain about this one - there might be a way to read the original value, can't check right now)

[Guest]

Well Slaverun(V3.0 Beta 1) breaks Devious Devices(V4.2), after maybe 1-4 hours, walking through a door or any  given period of time of waiting in an armbinder your hands will pop out of your armbinder or any device that has your hands tied. Just thought I would mention it hear since this has a slaverun tie in, I tested it on a new game it wont happen immediately in the beginning area but once all the scripts load and i used alternate start it then started happening.

 

Pretty sure its something to do with the scripts not being compiled with the latest version not sure though

[-alpha-]

54 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Theres already a toggle for the magic licence which is essentially the same thing...?

Not exactly.

Simply disabling the ML requirement means I wont get a collar when I walk into a town.

I can still use magic and be a full on mage.

What I was saying here is.

If you check the box to state youre not a mage then SLS applies a debuff like the on from the collar.

But only applies the spell effect not the whole collar thing.

If youre not a mage the debuff wont matter to you so it prevents you from using spells.

 

[Maitso]

On 7/17/2019 at 11:05 AM, Monoman1 said:

It's not an option no. 

Honestly I'm not sure it ever will be.

Why is that if you don't mind me asking?

*since couldn't fully quote. The unequipping of armor/weapons instead of confiscating*

[Tenri]

41 minutes ago, -alpha- said:

Not exactly.

Simply disabling the ML requirement means I wont get a collar when I walk into a town.

I can still use magic and be a full on mage.

What I was saying here is.

If you check the box to state youre not a mage then SLS applies a debuff like the on from the collar.

But only applies the spell effect not the whole collar thing.

If youre not a mage the debuff wont matter to you so it prevents you from using spells.

 

I know that there are times the mod will add the spell without the collar, such as when already wearing collar arm and leg cuffs, or when you don't have DD's installed IIRC. A MCM toggle to not use the collar ever might therefore be possible.

16 minutes ago, Maitso said:

Why is that if you don't mind me asking?

*since couldn't fully quote. The unequipping of armor/weapons instead of confiscating*

The point of confiscating the items is so that you have to be sneaky in order to sell things, by just forcing you to unequip them the only time you need to buy a licence is if you need to fight in town, or really don't want to pay every merchant just to sell them stuff you don't have a licence for and can't talk your way into doing so.

 

If you don't want to lose your things a better option would be to use SLAdventures crimes system set so that you can possess armour and weapons but not equip them, this would give you incentive to make sure to unequip 'contraband' before going into a town.

[Monoman1]

44 minutes ago, Maitso said:

Why is that if you don't mind me asking?

*since couldn't fully quote. The unequipping of armor/weapons instead of confiscating*

Honestly, it's mostly because I don't see the point. Unequipping rather than removing would effectively neuter the licence system. Also  Many of its support systems would need to be rewritten to do it. Quick example: walk into town, get stopped, get unequipped, walk away from the gate. Then just simply re-equip everything again without any problem. It would also add a moderate amount of complexity which would make adding more features later more complex (possibly unworkable) and I'd rather save that 'space' for something I feel fits. 

29 minutes ago, Tenri said:

know that there are times the mod will add the spell without the collar, such as when already wearing collar arm and leg cuffs, or when you don't have DD's installed IIRC. A MCM toggle to not use the collar ever might therefore be possible.

That might be something I can add with relative ease if it's just the collar people seem to have a problem with. 

Still doesn't solve automatic magic character detection.

[Monoman1]

2 hours ago, Risamei said:

Well Slaverun(V3.0 Beta 1) breaks Devious Devices(V4.2), after maybe 1-4 hours, walking through a door or any  given period of time of waiting in an armbinder your hands will pop out of your armbinder or any device that has your hands tied. Just thought I would mention it hear since this has a slaverun tie in, I tested it on a new game it wont happen immediately in the beginning area but once all the scripts load and i used alternate start it then started happening.

 

Pretty sure its something to do with the scripts not being compiled with the latest version not sure though

I thought that was just a problem with DDs itself? 

Are you saying it works fine without slaverun installed?

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I thought that was just a problem with DDs itself? 

Are you saying it works fine without slaverun installed?

Yes without slaverun installed it works perfectly fine, i remember slaverun not doing that but i think with the upgrade it must of broke something. 

[Guest]

Well i must of missed in the comments someone posted a fix and it appears to be working so far :3

 

[UnEvenSteven]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I think it'll probably suffer from the same problem as magicka points except you need to check 6 skills instead of one actor value. Those problems are:

Different race starting skill points and

Erroneous results based on debuffed skills (not certain about this one - there might be a way to read the original value, can't check right now)

 

Well Enchanting probably shouldn't be checked so it'd only be five magic skills to check for.

 

With a vanilla game all or most skills have a starting base of 15 (not sure where in the CK that is determined, perhaps Game Settings?) before racial bonuses are added. Once again with a vanilla game the maximum level of a skill for new character should only be 25, others may be 20 or even 15. So certain races would need to be careful about leveling their magic skills accidentally if they don't want to be collared.

 

I don't really know anything about Papyrus but you should be able to use GetBaseActorValue to determine the true value of a skill even after is has been buffed or de-buffed.

 

GetBaseActorValue is also a function that can be used in conditions for dialogue and perks already use this function. This is why you can't take the third rank of Alchemist, which requires an Alchemy of 40, even if the skill is 40 or higher with buffs but it's really only 30.

[Maitso]

4 hours ago, Tenri said:

The point of confiscating the items is so that you have to be sneaky in order to sell things, by just forcing you to unequip them the only time you need to buy a licence is if you need to fight in town, or really don't want to pay every merchant just to sell them stuff you don't have a licence for and can't talk your way into doing so.

 

If you don't want to lose your things a better option would be to use SLAdventures crimes system set so that you can possess armour and weapons but not equip them, this would give you incentive to make sure to unequip 'contraband' before going into a town.

Sneaky to sell? Am I missing a way to sneak into town without everything being taken? Also, I'm not familiar with this SLAdventures crimes system. What is it?

[Tenri]

10 minutes ago, Maitso said:

Sneaky to sell? Am I missing a way to sneak into town without everything being taken? Also, I'm not familiar with this SLAdventures crimes system. What is it?

There are mods that add additional ways into the city, but yes without those there is no way to avoid being caught on the way in, but you could still sell things in the smaller open towns like Riverwood or Falkreath.

 

Sexlab Adventures is another mod on this site, it has a bunch of configurable crime options on the same vein as the Licences but instead of taking what you aren't allowed away from you, it gives you a bounty when you are caught with something you shouldn't have.

[ttpt]

Survival specifically has made a really good job covering all vanilla entry points to cities, I was pleasantly surprised when it eventually covered the stairs that go to the docks in solitude for example. but there's mods that add new entrances or sewer entrances for example, or even the vanilla secret entrance the companions have in whiterun, it;s supposed to be secret so it'd be weird if a toll guard was there. The current mechanics for toll avoidance are great if you have other mods and survival doesn't need to get bogged down by adding compatibility with all the different town mods because of the current system which is great.

 

On the topic of magic licenses I think the system as it is now seems sufficient. I feel like mages should have an unfair advantage over your run of the mill adventurer by having enchanted clothes since your run of the mill guard should not be able to tell if your clothes are enchanted or not. And as far as licensing companions I think the current system works fine, if you feel like your companions should get licensed then just increase the price of licenses in the MCM and pretend it's a party license, which in all honestly with the current system it absolutely is a party license.

[Maitso]

23 minutes ago, Tenri said:

There are mods that add additional ways into the city, but yes without those there is no way to avoid being caught on the way in, but you could still sell things in the smaller open towns like Riverwood or Falkreath.

 

Sexlab Adventures is another mod on this site, it has a bunch of configurable crime options on the same vein as the Licences but instead of taking what you aren't allowed away from you, it gives you a bounty when you are caught with something you shouldn't have.

Ah, I see. Both something worth looking into. Thanks

[Guest AthenaESIV]

5 hours ago, Risamei said:

Well i must of missed in the comments someone posted a fix and it appears to be working so far :3

 

 

Does this allow you to use PCEA2 with Slaverun as well? I stopped using Slaverun a long time ago because it conflicted with DD and PCEA2 and I preferred my custom animations over anything it offered. If that patch fixes it I may give it another go...

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, AthenaESIV said:

 

Does this allow you to use PCEA2 with Slaverun as well? I stopped using Slaverun a long time ago because it conflicted with DD and PCEA2 and I preferred my custom animations over anything it offered. If that patch fixes it I may give it another go...

I dont know anything about PCEA2 sorry you'll just have to test it yourself on a new game just to see, but all i know is it works with DD 4.2+

[PikaKen]

Hello, love the mod so far, I have a few suggestions for the mod!

I was wondering if it is possible to incorporate Rohzima's "Guard Search" during inspection by the gate guard.

And maybe a filter to exclude vanilla guards for tax evasion and just make it be toll collectors and enforcers? ?

[Lupine00]

I have been playing with SLS quite a bit this week ... testing some clothing features ...

 

Something I started to feel after a while is that with SLS, DCL and DF as I use them, I'm losing the "fun" of devices. It's partly how I've set things up, and partly just me, but it led to some thinking, which I am going to overshare with everyone  

 

Pre-DF, DCL used to be a source of occasional random bondage events, and those were always a pure interruption of vanilla Skyrim. They were resolved through DCL, and the gameplay with them was all DCL gameplay. Each one was a digression or obstacle to overcome before return to vanilla play.

 

 

With DF, that style of play died. Instead, if you get caught in a troublesome device, you get the follower to remove it and soak the debt. DCL is reduced to a random debt generator for DF. You rarely need to use its escape mechanisms, or if you do, they are for secondary devices - inconveniences - like arm cuffs.

 

Now, with SLS as a debt generator for DF, DCL is pointless. I feel I get a better game by just turning it off, so my game is much more "skill based". There are problems enough with SLS. It creates all kinds of debt and problems with DF, and I just don't need DCL over-reacting because I'm stuck at 100 arousal all the time.

 

However, I still like some of the other features in DCL, particularly the crime, which plays with SLS generated problems quite well (particularly pickpocketing).

 

In this setup devices now come from DF exclusively, from deals, or events. So far so good...

 

But there's still something a bit off with this. The devices become commonplace, or routine. You're often stuck in them indefinitely. In my current game, the chance of getting out of debt with the follower is almost nil. With the licenses in play, I simply cannot make money fast enough to get out of trouble. I just sink deeper. It's a game of how long I can last rather than a WHAT IF scenario.

 

I could change that of course. SLS will let me configure license prices, or let me turn off licenses.

 

But I still miss the DCL random interruptions with normal play, but am conflicted over liking the DF style too. In the end, I've picked DF over DCL.

 

 

I wondered if I could get a bit of both worlds. Could SLS somehow help support that?

 

 

I couldn't come up with a good answer. Not yet anyway.

 

 

But it did occur to me that SLS could deliver more of the uncertainty of the DCL random events, and yet feel not totally random.

 

 

Here's my suggestion:

 

A new kind of "license". It's not called a license, but has similar mechanics. 

 

Merchant license. Without this license, vendor cash is crippled to fairly low levels (just a couple of hundred per vendor, or even lower, perhaps even zero).

With this license, vendor cash is raised above vanilla levels. Regular vendors might have 1500, even without trading perks.

 

However, this license requires speculation. You have to buy the license in advance.

There's then a delay before it becomes valid. The delay can be something like 1 day, 3 days, or 7 days. The longer delays are cheaper to buy, shorter more expensive.

Once it becomes valid, the license has an active period. Configurable, or perhaps purchasable, in blocks of 24 hours.

 

If your license has become valid, when you reach a town, there is a chance they will accept your license. The reverse is also true, there's a chance they won't. If that happens, you have to rush somewhere else instead, and hope they will accept it.

 

If your license is refused, its as if it's invalid, and trader cash is crippled.

 

 

This makes for a little gambling game that plays off DF.

 

You're in Whiterun, and you think you can get some good loot in the near future. You buy a 3 day delay license, and set off to Solitude environs to do quests centred around there.

 

When three days have passed, you are able to sell effectively - for one day - but before that you can't.

 

However, the chance of license refusal is not flat. It decreases with each town. 

Let's say it starts at 80%.

I have 24 hours to make it to a town that will let me sell.

 

So on day four, I try to sell in Solitude (nearby) and I have a 20% chance that vendors have cash.

If they don't, I can make a dash for Markarth, but from there, it's a long way to anywhere else.

Maybe at Markarth, the chance of rejection is now only 60%.

Let's say, again I'm rejected.

I now have to head for Whiterun, because Morthal and Dawnstar aren't much good for trading.

 

I get to Whiterun, chance of rejection is only 40%... If I'm lucky, I get to trade. If I'm not, I can make a stab at reaching Falkreath, but maybe I can't get there in time.

 

So I run to Falkreath, and don't make it.

The price of my Merchant license was wasted.

 

Now I have to buy another license - but I may not have cash to do it unless I was careful, or borrow from the follower, or use some other cash raising method  

 

And once I have it, I can either go for the 1 day delay at a high price, or a longer delay.

 

 

Let's say I pick the 1 day delay license. I'm back to 80% rejection chance in Falkreath.

 

 

It would make sense if the longer delay licenses had longer validity periods too. Feels fairer.

 

 

In a game like this, you might well disable (or reduce cost on) some, or all of the other licenses, because it is too hard.

No weapon license though, and you can't vend weapons at all, even if you have a merchant license - because you can't carry weapons.

So if you like it real tough, you can enable all the licenses, and if you like the speculative game you could set the other licenses pretty cheap.

 

Of course, presumably the rejection chance, bonus per city, and merchant license delays, durations, and prices would be configurable somehow, so you could tailor it.

 

 

What I like about this, is it makes for a game with pressure, but you're also making a bet that things won't go horribly wrong.

 

Let's say you get defeated in a dungeon, and stuck in DiD for days, then your license runs out before you even get a chance to use it. Disaster. And even after you escape you can't sell for a while because you have to afford a license, wait for it to become valid, then get to a city where it is accepted.

 

It would create uncertainty in DF without it being absolutely random. Instead of waiting for some small random chance of disaster (DCL trap) you're playing odds and deciding how you want to hedge your risks.

 

You could even have a bonus to sell prices with a valid license, so when you get things lined up, you win big, but when things go against you, times are really tough.

[-alpha-]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

...snip...

 

Erm bit of a long~ish post of random thoughts.

 

TL:DR - I think there needs to be consequences for your crappy situation rather than digging an ever deeper grave..

 

I really like the idea of trading economics as a form of generating coin.

In my game  (while not as hardcore as yours) coin is a hard thing to manage.

Buying licences travel weapons food rent drugs bribes fines tolls and the list goes on.

 

sure you can just adjust values of things but that feels like cheating.

I like the idea of the hustle and struggle to survive.

 

Without systems or mods I kinda rely on imagination quite often.

for eg my char getting pregnant so she can produce milk to be sold. (I happened to have SGO installed at the time)

But "raw" milk sells for next to nothing and takes a while to produce.

So I created a few recipes where with several milks I can create a cooked or thickened milk drink which is worth lots more.

Now I have to balance stock piling vs selling for quick buck in hard times vs consuming for food/thirst 

(Yes I know MME exists but it doesnt do what Im doing)

 

but back to your point.

The idea of having the Risk/Reward with the Merchant license really adds that excitement.

Will 3 days be enough to get from Riften to Whiterun?

How much gear can I carry, which gear should I carry.

Should I raid the nearby bandit camp for resources/loot or save time and move on.

 

Or maybe whats missing from all of this is repercussions or a "Bad End" scenario like in the Thief mod. 

Theres a house in which you need to retrieve a collectors coin.

You break into that guys home and get caught - he rapes you and tosses you out.

You break in again and get caught he rapes you again but sells you to some slavers and end.

or if you break in kill the owner take the coin without disabling the trap gate you get stuck in the room and die. (your bones is found years later by other thieves)

 

Even with the Merchant license if you dont make it in time all you end up in is more debt... meh.

Perhaps a lighter "bad end"

Getting tossed into jail and you get lashes or do hard time like mining

or you get assassinated which fails and you re-roll random LiveAnotherLife with nothing to your name.

[Highborn]

I'm really enjoying the mod so far. The aspect of having to deal with bureaucracy gives another layer to the adventurer role-playing. 

 

Regarding the collar, which mod do I have to install in order to wear them? The guards are using a scroll to drain my magicka, which is also cool.

[FoMK11SD]

1 hour ago, Highborn said:

I'm really enjoying the mod so far. The aspect of having to deal with bureaucracy gives another layer to the adventurer role-playing. 

 

Regarding the collar, which mod do I have to install in order to wear them? The guards are using a scroll to drain my magicka, which is also cool.

Devious devices (assets, Intregation and expansion) 

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, Highborn said:

I'm really enjoying the mod so far. The aspect of having to deal with bureaucracy gives another layer to the adventurer role-playing. 

 

Regarding the collar, which mod do I have to install in order to wear them? The guards are using a scroll to drain my magicka, which is also cool.

Like FoMK11SD says. Survival actually expects DDx. My thoughts at the time was who uses DDi but not DDx? So DDx is the requirement and DDi and DDa are it's requirements. 

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

I'm all for some more spontaneous adversity. It sounds interesting and I'm not usually one to detract from gameplay improvements BUT it is highly abstract and 'gamey'. People are going to have a hard time getting their head around it. I can pretty much guarantee people will come in here complaining that I destroyed their economy. And I still haven't investigated how vendor gold is actually.... given. It would sort of make sense if gold was limited in towns if supplies were 'ambushed by bandits' or as a causality of the civil war. But buying a licence for it to happen is very.... odd and I just don't know if I could reconcile it in my brain

 

The good news is that the next version would have a nice way of helping you get between towns while you're poor. A er... 'horse loan' system of sorts...

11 hours ago, -alpha- said:

 

Erm bit of a long~ish post of random thoughts.

 

TL:DR - I think there needs to be consequences for your crappy situation rather than digging an ever deeper grave..

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I really like the idea of trading economics as a form of generating coin.

In my game  (while not as hardcore as yours) coin is a hard thing to manage.

Buying licences travel weapons food rent drugs bribes fines tolls and the list goes on.

 

sure you can just adjust values of things but that feels like cheating.

I like the idea of the hustle and struggle to survive.

 

Without systems or mods I kinda rely on imagination quite often.

for eg my char getting pregnant so she can produce milk to be sold. (I happened to have SGO installed at the time)

But "raw" milk sells for next to nothing and takes a while to produce.

So I created a few recipes where with several milks I can create a cooked or thickened milk drink which is worth lots more.

Now I have to balance stock piling vs selling for quick buck in hard times vs consuming for food/thirst 

(Yes I know MME exists but it doesnt do what Im doing)

 

but back to your point.

The idea of having the Risk/Reward with the Merchant license really adds that excitement.

Will 3 days be enough to get from Riften to Whiterun?

How much gear can I carry, which gear should I carry.

Should I raid the nearby bandit camp for resources/loot or save time and move on.

 

Or maybe whats missing from all of this is repercussions or a "Bad End" scenario like in the Thief mod. 

Theres a house in which you need to retrieve a collectors coin.

You break into that guys home and get caught - he rapes you and tosses you out.

You break in again and get caught he rapes you again but sells you to some slavers and end.

or if you break in kill the owner take the coin without disabling the trap gate you get stuck in the room and die. (your bones is found years later by other thieves)

 

Even with the Merchant license if you dont make it in time all you end up in is more debt... meh.

Perhaps a lighter "bad end"

Getting tossed into jail and you get lashes or do hard time like mining

or you get assassinated which fails and you re-roll random LiveAnotherLife with nothing to your name.
 

 

 

I wouldn't mind trying a dark souls-esque type mode for a while. But my game is bonkers hard so I'd expect a lot of restarting and setting Mcms everytime is a "HELL NO!" for me. I do enough setting Mcms while creating mods. 

[Highborn]

25 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Like FoMK11SD says. Survival actually expects DDx. My thoughts at the time was who uses DDi but not DDx? So DDx is the requirement and DDi and DDa are it's requirements. 

 

Thanks for info!

 

By the way, just a minor and perhaps silly feedback. I think it's a bit unimmersive that Windhelm would take an elf and an orc to work in such public positions, since there is the racism and all. Also, shouldn't the gate guards wear the hold guard armor? I think it would be nice in order to blend them in the game.

 

 

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

BUT it is highly abstract and 'gamey'.

What? Totally unrealistic, like not-quite-buying an imaginary representation of value in a company and then making a bet with someone that these mysterious "shares" you didn't quite buy will go down in value rather than up.

 

Money itself is an abstract, and it's a bit of a "game" changer.

 

 

I guess we see gamey and abstract differently, as it's as concrete to me as day-limited licenses specifically for women using magic in Solitude that is respected by the people they are fighting a war against in Windhelm - or in Morthal, which is run by a woman. So I guess that "gamey" is OK, unless the suggestion is too "gamey"? Whatever that means.

 

 

Let me make it less ABSTRACT...

 

Player to Belethor: "Please sir, I plan to bring in a big shipment of goods."

Belethor: "Why would I buy from you instead of from the Cyrodillic Cartel?"

Player: "I could make it worth your while. How about a sweetener up front?"

Belethor: "I don't have the money on hand right now. Let me see if I can get it ready."

Player:

    [Pay 1000] Traders get cash tomorrow.

    [Pay 500] Traders get cash in 4 days.

    [Pay 100] Traders get cash next week.

Belthor: "I'm taking your money, but if the cartel sends a caravan I won't be able to deal with you for another week."

 

Player pays 500 and returns in 4 days.

 

Player: "You've had enough time to raise the cash. Are you ready to trade?"

Belethor: "I don't like your tone missy. I won't be trading with you today."

Player: "What!? You took my money but won't trade? I've been a good customer for you, and now this?"

Belethor: "Don't have a hysteric lady. Take this note of recommendation. Maybe somebody else can take your shipment?"

 

Belethor gives player a note: "You'd be doing me a favour if you can buy a shipment of at least <1000> in value from the bearer of this note, the girl <Cupcake>. Signed Belethor of the Skyrim Merchants Guild and Cyrodillic Trading Coalition."

 

 

Player arrives in Riverwood.

 

Player to Lucan: "What have you got for sale?"

Lucan: "That's right ... I'm selling today, not buying."

Player: "But... I need to sell these goods. Please? I have a note from Belethor."

Lucan looks at note. "Sorry. I want to help you out but I just don't have the money right now. Maybe try a different hold?"

 

 

Player arrives in Falkreath.

 

Player to Solaf: "What have you got for sale?"

Solaf: "Don't try to cheat me girl, or you'll regret it!"

Player: "Please sir, I have this note from Belethor."

Solaf looks at note. "Alright. Show me what you've got." (success)

... after trading ...

Solaf: "I'll make sure the other traders in town know you can be trusted."

 

 

Compared to the utter nonsense in Slaverun, I think that's pretty ... concrete?

 

Now imagine it if you are trying to sell them contraband? That could get quite ... exciting.

 

 

It's one thing not to want to do it, or not to know how to do it ... but to complain a mechanic is too abstract and gamey, and at the same time look past literally hundreds of silly mechanics that were added to Slaverun, or just because DD devices are neat ... that's bordering on "alternative facts" ... when the entirety of Devious Followers is based a very vague idea that the player will quietly go along with pretty much anything the follower wants as long as the follower says "Remember, a deal is a deal," at the end of it.

 

As for players complaining about a broken economy? I think licenses already broke it just fine, and the answer is "they are optional".

 

 

I can see this isn't going to be a feature in SLS. Don't worry about it.

If I decide I want it that badly, I can do it myself.

 

Still, I get irked when people make lazy arguments, and just throwing an adjective bomb is worse than no argument at all.

[Lupine00]

18 hours ago, -alpha- said:

Or maybe whats missing from all of this is repercussions or a "Bad End" scenario like in the Thief mod. 

I guess that's not the job of SLS, but the broader question is "When is an end appropriate?"

 

Defeat mods remove the idea of an end entirely, and replace it with a continuation.

 

 

The idea of a defeat mod that treats defeat as a kind of end or major turning point is ... intriguing.

Making that intent explicit: telling the player "When you get defeated in this mod, you really take a hit," sets the expectations, so players don't go "this is too much", because they signed up for that.

 

 

Most defeat mods are just a speed bump. DiD not so much; it adds some long lasting consequences, which linger, weighing you down.

That's not ideal either, because you can't move past the defeat, instead the traumas accumulate until they gradually turn your character into a chaurus breeding factory that's addicted to bondage, and can no longer function as an adventurer at all.

And that's on top of the time sink of the long, brutal imprisonments that make SD+ slavery seem like a breeze.

DiD has ideas and ambitions, but still needs balancing and refining. It's not really ready yet.

 

 

One scenario:

 

I wonder what it would be like to play with a setup where on defeat, you take a medium-length, severe punishment - something like a life sentence to Dragonar, so you are obliged to escape to get out - and at the end of it you carry some drawback, but you can clear it off, but there's also a counter-balance benefit. Something like a lingering 5000 septim bounty as an escaped prisoner, but you are friendly to bandits and gain access to some bandit vendors. (You can still kill the bandits if you like of course, but that's probably stupid). You have to work to pay off your debt and be allowed to re-enter towns, but it's something possible. It's not that bad, just a minor turning point but you know it's something you'll have to deal with for a while.

 

 

Another scenario:

 

Or, on defeat, you take a really serious hit, beginning with something like a DiD imprisonment. Then you're sold to a new owner - such as a DF master (or similar), with a big debt and lots of deals. Plus, you lose several levels (during the imprisonment process), and the defeat mod chooses what stats to reduce, and what skills to reduce - and adventuring skills are hit hard - but perks are left intact. This would give you a minor up-side if you can get free, and maybe you can't ever get out of that pit - it's up to you to decide if you can.

The range of levels lost would be up to the player to configure, making the result range from harsh to almost a complete reset.

 

 

Another scenario:

 

Like above, but instead of being sold to DF or a DF-clone, you are dropped into something like SD+ slavery, but with a bimbo curse. In this case, you might be better clinging on to your master, because without them, you're not good for much. A quest to cure the curse (no matter how advanced) is ... optional.

 

 

Slaverun already provides a game changing enslavement... Once you're in that, it's hard to get out. In the old version, once you were in, that was it. In the beta, if you let yourself accumulate submissiveness, you're still stuck in there for the ride, until you get to a slaverun ending.

 

 

What could SLS do for an "end"?

Vegetable stall of course!