Sexlab Survival

[(\x.x x) (\x.x x)]

9 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

6. Scripters are not well regarded in the Skyrim community. At least not as well as modelers/animators. Can't really do much of interest with a model/animation without some good situations to provide context. Situations provided by a quest/script. A model/animation can be finished. Script mods require constant updates/maintenance/support. I don't really understand it. Maybe because scripts = bad is the general perception? I don't know. Maybe my perception is off.

I dabbled in Skyrim modding some years ago, and having to deal with Papyrus ultimately made me lose all motivation. It's the second worst language I ever dealt with; like having to butcher animals with a plastic knife. So, I really appreciate modders who put up with this, as I am lacking the patience for this. 

 

9 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

 

7. Probably the biggest. I'm feeling the walls close in on me lately (modding wise). Pretty much all of my mods have some equivalent or equivalent parts now.

Funny thing is, when I saw these mods, I was looking for the "Differences to SLS" section, didn't find anything, and then lost all interest in them because I already had SLS.

I finally understand the motivation behind these, only because the authors explained themselves as a response to the post I am responding to.

9 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

• Gratitude - Don't want to write a review or post a positive comment? Then just click the like button. Take you one second. Otherwise the vitriol of this place will drown out the positive feedback and modding will suffer. 

I feel bad now, because I certainly fall short on this as well. Yet, me not commenting, reviewing or liking has nothing to do with laziness or a lack of gratitude.

If you are not a mod author, it is hard to internalize the importance of positive engagment to set the record straight.

 

Anyway, thank you very much for your work and the explanation. Now, take your time to recover. It is a hobby and it should be fun, and most importantly don't let anybody guilt-trip you into anything.

[DarkBlade13]

10 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Right. First off. Not having a mental breakdown or anything so dramatic. Not having 'a fit'. Been removing files over a couple of weeks now. I've been asking nicely. Not been asking admins to do anything. Mostly via PM. Some people's inboxes are full.

 

It has been... interesting to see the reactions. Some people get it. Others are annoyed that they've been inconvenienced.

 

 

And I'm sorry but when you've contributed a fraction of what I have then you'll have an opinion that I'd actually consider. It's been a bit of an eye-opener. There's some real 'pieces of work' on this site. Some genuinely nice people too. 

 

- Dependencies - I'm not aware of any mods that have a hard dependency on any of my mods. Soft dependency, sure. You simply lose access to this content. 

- I got paid for these mods. Ah... No. I've never paywalled files or badgered people about it. The only reason I even had a patreon account was because I was asked about it. And I'm grateful to anyone that helped me out but if I were getting paid by the hour it'd be .0x cents per hour. In any case, I didn't mod to get paid. 

 

Now, I can't point to any one thing that's lead me to this but there are a number of factors as I see it: 

 

1. I've a strange OCD where I feel compelled to support the stuff I've created. I find it very difficult to 'disconnect'. It's my responsibility. 7000 posts, mostly support. It's exhausting on it's own. Combine this with trouble sleeping and it leads to late nights reading/refreshing threads. Unhealthy. Perhaps if there wasn't any file then maybe I could disconnect?

 

2. Someone mentioned modpacks. Yea, maybe a factor. Not a big one though. Handy of course for users but I think possibly damaging for long term for modding in general. Positive reinforcement/engagement is definitely down around here since it's advent. And it's not like us modders get much else for our work. I think SLS beta had ~83000 downloads. 53 'endorsements'. Nearly 1600 DLs per endorsement. Obviously a lot of auto downloading going on. The only people showing up in threads are people with problems. Problems that either A) are well known or B) are completely off the mark due to the users complete lack of knowledge. I'd also point out that a necessity to be knowledgeable about mods is what lead me to modding in the first place. Less knowledgeable people around would probably indicate less modders and less mods going forward. 

 

3. Attitudes such as: 

May not be intended but from my POV there's a serious bang of entitlement and ungratefulness about this post. Maybe you wouldn't have these alternatives if I hadn't put in the initial effort so... you're welcome I guess? I don't know why you felt to need to say this. And to say it in this thread...

 

4. People shitting all over 'old' mods when 'newer' ones come out utterly baffles me. I've got news for people out there. Papyrus hasn't improved since Skyrim's release. Sure SE has a couple of extra (not particularly useful) functions but if you want compatibility (which most modders do) then you're stuck with basic papyrus. PO3 extender and the like - very useful. Not game changing. My point? - The 'best' mod for something may have been made years ago. Even if this was not the case they likely served as a foundation for your newer and better mod. So... show a little respect?

 

5. Large mods bad. Small mods good! - Yea... Sometimes. There are efficiencies to be gained in larger mods. If you were to chop up SLS and reinstall a lot of it in parts then I'd say you are actually making things worse. Now instead of one mod tracking your cell changes you've got multiple. Congratulations, you've double/tripled the background workload (which is usually the 'heaviest' work). And if anyone doesn't know how cell change tracking works, it involves adding a permanent magic effect to the player and an invisible object following you around forever. Imagine all that invisible junk following you around. Entering/exiting combat - same sort of thing. Load game events - probably a whole lot of duplication going on. 

 

6. Scripters are not well regarded in the Skyrim community. At least not as well as modelers/animators. Can't really do much of interest with a model/animation without some good situations to provide context. Situations provided by a quest/script. A model/animation can be finished. Script mods require constant updates/maintenance/support. I don't really understand it. Maybe because scripts = bad is the general perception? I don't know. Maybe my perception is off. 

 

7. Probably the biggest. I'm feeling the walls close in on me lately (modding wise). Pretty much all of my mods have some equivalent or equivalent parts now. Sure, my mods haven't been updated in some time but I was actively working on them. Anyone paying attention to the threads would know this. It's just difficult when you're spinning 3/4 plates at the same time, including 1 complete rewrite. They don't intend it but I feel like I'm 'under siege', for want of a better expression, by these modders. And since they are many and I am one, they are capable of doing things much faster than I. I'm being 'pushed out'.

 

So this is the crux. Modding has become a competition and is not a fun hobby anymore. If I am to 'compete' then I'd have to give up my day job which obviously isn't an option. And if my mods or new features are to be chopped up and rehashed anyway then I really don't see the point in continuing. Or at least... continuing publicly. It's possible at this point that I would continue modding since I still have an interest in playing Skyrim and many of the things I've been working on are practically finished or close to it anyway. But then I would be modding for personal use only. That may seem selfish on the surface. And it is. But not for the reasons you're probably thinking. 

 

Taking modding back to being a personal thing makes modding a hobby again. No competition. No watching my mods be very publicly dissected. No endless hours of support. No adding options I'm not particularly interested in. Less compatibility issues. No aggro. No chasing people for permissions to use meshes etc. Sounds great...

 

A lot of the problems above are from the community itself. Something to ponder...

 

Just to reiterate, all this isn't against any one modder in particular. 

 

Taking down my files was a silent protest of the above cumulative points. This community needs to work on :

• Respect - Respect modders work. Even if you don't like it. It took time and effort and should not be shat on by anyone. Unless it's deliberately setting PCs on fire. 
• Gratitude - Don't want to write a review or post a positive comment? Then just click the like button. Take you one second. Otherwise the vitriol of this place will drown out the positive feedback and modding will suffer. 
• Understanding - Develop understanding of how mods work so that you're not a part of the scripts = bad sheeple. And therefore not disrespecting modders with your lack of understanding. If you don't know something then don't state it as fact...
• Self help - respect mod authors free time. Try to figure it out yourself. See how much time modding takes (above). Maybe you'll learn something along the way and save a modder a headache. 
• Collaboration - Maybe instead of forking off a mod, submit changes that can be implemented. Stuff is beginning to be splintered all over the place. 

 

tldr:

So what now? 

 

Got to admit, I've made a bit of a mess of things. Should have just hidden files rather than delete them. Probably will reupload them somewhere, sometime. But possibly just to a locked blog post or something. Public development is likely to stop. Permission to carry on my work is not given. Yet. Need to figure out some things. 

Hey, I am a small mod autor. I agree with lots of the things you are saying although for me they are on a smaller scale. If you want I could host your mods. My scripting is limited to vanilla papyrus, so support would be limited too. Aaand I only spend 750 hours in creation kit.

Edited October 26, 2023 by DarkBlade13

[DarthCheney]

10 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Right. First off. Not having a mental breakdown or anything so dramatic. Not having 'a fit'. Been removing files over a couple of weeks now. I've been asking nicely. Not been asking admins to do anything. Mostly via PM. Some people's inboxes are full.

 

It has been... interesting to see the reactions. Some people get it. Others are annoyed that they've been inconvenienced.

 

 

And I'm sorry but when you've contributed a fraction of what I have then you'll have an opinion that I'd actually consider. It's been a bit of an eye-opener. There's some real 'pieces of work' on this site. Some genuinely nice people too. 

 

- Dependencies - I'm not aware of any mods that have a hard dependency on any of my mods. Soft dependency, sure. You simply lose access to this content. 

- I got paid for these mods. Ah... No. I've never paywalled files or badgered people about it. The only reason I even had a patreon account was because I was asked about it. And I'm grateful to anyone that helped me out but if I were getting paid by the hour it'd be .0x cents per hour. In any case, I didn't mod to get paid. 

 

Now, I can't point to any one thing that's lead me to this but there are a number of factors as I see it: 

 

1. I've a strange OCD where I feel compelled to support the stuff I've created. I find it very difficult to 'disconnect'. It's my responsibility. 7000 posts, mostly support. It's exhausting on it's own. Combine this with trouble sleeping and it leads to late nights reading/refreshing threads. Unhealthy. Perhaps if there wasn't any file then maybe I could disconnect?

 

2. Someone mentioned modpacks. Yea, maybe a factor. Not a big one though. Handy of course for users but I think possibly damaging for long term for modding in general. Positive reinforcement/engagement is definitely down around here since it's advent. And it's not like us modders get much else for our work. I think SLS beta had ~83000 downloads. 53 'endorsements'. Nearly 1600 DLs per endorsement. Obviously a lot of auto downloading going on. The only people showing up in threads are people with problems. Problems that either A) are well known or B) are completely off the mark due to the users complete lack of knowledge. I'd also point out that a necessity to be knowledgeable about mods is what lead me to modding in the first place. Less knowledgeable people around would probably indicate less modders and less mods going forward. 

 

3. Attitudes such as: 

May not be intended but from my POV there's a serious bang of entitlement and ungratefulness about this post. Maybe you wouldn't have these alternatives if I hadn't put in the initial effort so... you're welcome I guess? I don't know why you felt to need to say this. And to say it in this thread...

 

4. People shitting all over 'old' mods when 'newer' ones come out utterly baffles me. I've got news for people out there. Papyrus hasn't improved since Skyrim's release. Sure SE has a couple of extra (not particularly useful) functions but if you want compatibility (which most modders do) then you're stuck with basic papyrus. PO3 extender and the like - very useful. Not game changing. My point? - The 'best' mod for something may have been made years ago. Even if this was not the case they likely served as a foundation for your newer and better mod. So... show a little respect?

 

5. Large mods bad. Small mods good! - Yea... Sometimes. There are efficiencies to be gained in larger mods. If you were to chop up SLS and reinstall a lot of it in parts then I'd say you are actually making things worse. Now instead of one mod tracking your cell changes you've got multiple. Congratulations, you've double/tripled the background workload (which is usually the 'heaviest' work). And if anyone doesn't know how cell change tracking works, it involves adding a permanent magic effect to the player and an invisible object following you around forever. Imagine all that invisible junk following you around. Entering/exiting combat - same sort of thing. Load game events - probably a whole lot of duplication going on. 

 

6. Scripters are not well regarded in the Skyrim community. At least not as well as modelers/animators. Can't really do much of interest with a model/animation without some good situations to provide context. Situations provided by a quest/script. A model/animation can be finished. Script mods require constant updates/maintenance/support. I don't really understand it. Maybe because scripts = bad is the general perception? I don't know. Maybe my perception is off. 

 

7. Probably the biggest. I'm feeling the walls close in on me lately (modding wise). Pretty much all of my mods have some equivalent or equivalent parts now. Sure, my mods haven't been updated in some time but I was actively working on them. Anyone paying attention to the threads would know this. It's just difficult when you're spinning 3/4 plates at the same time, including 1 complete rewrite. They don't intend it but I feel like I'm 'under siege', for want of a better expression, by these modders. And since they are many and I am one, they are capable of doing things much faster than I. I'm being 'pushed out'.

 

So this is the crux. Modding has become a competition and is not a fun hobby anymore. If I am to 'compete' then I'd have to give up my day job which obviously isn't an option. And if my mods or new features are to be chopped up and rehashed anyway then I really don't see the point in continuing. Or at least... continuing publicly. It's possible at this point that I would continue modding since I still have an interest in playing Skyrim and many of the things I've been working on are practically finished or close to it anyway. But then I would be modding for personal use only. That may seem selfish on the surface. And it is. But not for the reasons you're probably thinking. 

 

Taking modding back to being a personal thing makes modding a hobby again. No competition. No watching my mods be very publicly dissected. No endless hours of support. No adding options I'm not particularly interested in. Less compatibility issues. No aggro. No chasing people for permissions to use meshes etc. Sounds great...

 

A lot of the problems above are from the community itself. Something to ponder...

 

Just to reiterate, all this isn't against any one modder in particular. 

 

Taking down my files was a silent protest of the above cumulative points. This community needs to work on :

• Respect - Respect modders work. Even if you don't like it. It took time and effort and should not be shat on by anyone. Unless it's deliberately setting PCs on fire. 
• Gratitude - Don't want to write a review or post a positive comment? Then just click the like button. Take you one second. Otherwise the vitriol of this place will drown out the positive feedback and modding will suffer. 
• Understanding - Develop understanding of how mods work so that you're not a part of the scripts = bad sheeple. And therefore not disrespecting modders with your lack of understanding. If you don't know something then don't state it as fact...
• Self help - respect mod authors free time. Try to figure it out yourself. See how much time modding takes (above). Maybe you'll learn something along the way and save a modder a headache. 
• Collaboration - Maybe instead of forking off a mod, submit changes that can be implemented. Stuff is beginning to be splintered all over the place. 

 

tldr:

So what now? 

 

Got to admit, I've made a bit of a mess of things. Should have just hidden files rather than delete them. Probably will reupload them somewhere, sometime. But possibly just to a locked blog post or something. Public development is likely to stop. Permission to carry on my work is not given. Yet. Need to figure out some things. 

 

I just got into Skyrim modding like a year ago and just recently, like 2 months ago, stumbled onto your particular ecosystem of mods.  SLS is fantastic and STA quickly climbed to the top of my favorite mods, it genuinely makes me laugh out loud, it's such a fun mod.  I'm late to the party, but I appreciate your work regardless and am also saddened to see it going away, but thank you for addressing the community and for all of your countless time and effort.

 

I'm not a modder myself and the only thing in my life that I have devoted even a fraction of the time you have to this hobby is to TTRPGs (like Dungeons and Dragons.)  I can be quite obsessive about details in the games I create to share with my friends, particularly in world building and making highly detailed maps that are going to be used once or twice and then likely never again.  And I've considered many times attempting to monetize that hobby, as a paid Game Master or releasing my own modules and third party supplements to the games I love, but the fear of my favorite hobby becoming nothing more than a soul-crushing grind where I'm expected, either by fans or just myself to be constantly available and continuously churning out more content is a hurdle I've never gotten past.  So, this clearly isn't the same thing you've described, but it's the best way I can relate.  And at least on some level, I understand where you're coming from and I have to respect that.

 

Again, thank you for all of your hard work and all the great mods and best of wishes to you and I sincerely hope we can at least see some of your work return in the future.  Until then, I think I may go and clear some of my growing list of pending endorsements.

[Corsayr]

@Monoman1 I'm unsure how I would have "survived" Skyrim without you. ?

 

I am saddened that you had to endure the remarks of those who do not understand the value you have brought to this community. I couldn't imagine this game without your mods. 

[Desvati]

11 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

 Need to figure out some things. 

Its a shame to see you go, and I can only hope we see a triumphant return someday, but nevertheless, you always have to come first for yourself and I hope decoupling yourself from the Lab will hopefully see you in better spirits, as an avid lover of your work and someone who's seen some of the crazy shit you'd pulled off that many modders couldn't, scripters like yourself definitely can make heads turn. Take care, Mono!

[Anunya]

Thanks for letting us know what 's up Mono.

 

I'm another person who absolutely appreciates your mods and the work you've done, and who fully respects your decision on how to move forward - whatever that decision ends up being.

[Nuascura]

1 hour ago, (\x.x x) (\x.x x) said:

Funny thing is, when I saw these mods, I was looking for the "Differences to SLS" section, didn't find anything, and then lost all interest in them because I already had SLS.

I finally understand the motivation behind these, only because the authors explained themselves as a response to the post I am responding to.

Generally speaking, if you don’t understand why you might want something, then you don’t need it. It follows the same logic of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” You don’t need to download anything that you don’t understand. If SLS fits your needs and works perfectly fine, why would you need anything else? And why would you need to hear any explanation of why SLS isn’t enough for you? 
 

To understand why the alternative should exist is the beauty of epiphany and independent thought.
 

Speaking as a mod author here and off-site, then, our ability to market what we make is a noteworthy but secondary part of a whole. Personally, I am making stuff that I enjoy, and I have no obligation to explain myself whether in this thread or in my listing.

[ShalaxiHelbane]

11 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Got to admit, I've made a bit of a mess of things. Should have just hidden files rather than delete them. Probably will reupload them somewhere, sometime. But possibly just to a locked blog post or something. Public development is likely to stop. Permission to carry on my work is not given. Yet. Need to figure out some things. 

Probably mostly just down to not posting this out the gate. People tend to get caught up in how things impact them and not think about the other side of things easily. An explanation like this goes a long way to help people understand and when you're well known slipping quietly out the back door loses viability.

 

Quote

5. Large mods bad. Small mods good! - Yea... Sometimes. There are efficiencies to be gained in larger mods. If you were to chop up SLS and reinstall a lot of it in parts then I'd say you are actually making things worse. Now instead of one mod tracking your cell changes you've got multiple. Congratulations, you've double/tripled the background workload (which is usually the 'heaviest' work). And if anyone doesn't know how cell change tracking works, it involves adding a permanent magic effect to the player and an invisible object following you around forever. Imagine all that invisible junk following you around. Entering/exiting combat - same sort of thing. Load game events - probably a whole lot of duplication going on. 

That is exceptionally interesting to hear. There's a lot of time required to understand the intricacies of having to deal with any given engine/environment to link into and most people have ne. Means things like SOLID don't really hold for the modding environment. There's probably an argument to be made for separating functionality of something at the scale of SLS on the lines of "all this bits which require world changes" and "all the bits which don't require world changes" just based on reducing the overhead of things like xEdit patch requirements. Of course I'm sure that would be a lot of work to do (I don't think I have yet written and substantial code section where I've been happy with them after a couple of months and every old code base I've dealt with has felt very clunky). I kind of assume modders make what they want to see and use at which point there's the question of "Why would you do work to split up something where you want to use all the constituent parts anyway?".
 

Quote

6. Scripters are not well regarded in the Skyrim community. At least not as well as modelers/animators. Can't really do much of interest with a model/animation without some good situations to provide context

I whole heartedly agree with the point of context. In regards to the first bit a lot of people are unfortunately magpies.

 

Quote

1. I've a strange OCD where I feel compelled to support the stuff I've created.

If it makes you feel any better you're not alone. I have regularly got into arguments with management people on the grounds of "I wouldn't be happy if I bought this product"

 

Quote

Nearly 1600 DLs per endorsement. Obviously a lot of auto downloading going on.

You're probably right but multiple downloads per user and users forgetting to endorse wouldn't surprise me either. From your side is the endorement count nice due to it providing an indicator as a sense of gratitude or is it the feeling that it'll help more people find it? Regarding people raising "well known" issues I can only speak from exprience on the other side of the fence but a proper issue tracking system would go a hell of a long way on the site. As it stands I'm sure I've ended up asking things which other people have before due to wording things in not quite the same way. To be clear I see it as an infrastructure to user level issue rather than a modder level issue.

 

Quote

Collaboration - Maybe instead of forking off a mod, submit changes that can be implemented. Stuff is beginning to be splintered all over the place.

On a positive note this is something which I'd love to see. I did have a couple of days a year or so back tracking down an issue between DF and SLTR to do with the slavery trigger not resetting and thus the SLTR outcome essentially becoming unavailable after the first time. It was probably some of the most fun I've had on the programming side in the last couple of years because it was interesting to get some idea of how these things connect up, although I suspect I probably annoyed at least one of the authors while narrowing the issue down. I think for that sort of thing version control would help with engagement a fair bit as well as making feedback easier to manage on a clarity front as well as a learning vector, commit messages and code review help a lot with trying to figure stuff out.

Finally I hope stepping back from public modding helps you recover some enthusiasm for it. When a hobby starts to feel like a job something has to change. I hope in time you feel like sharing your creations again but the most important thing is that you enjoy doing it.

[Sospice]

12 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Right. First off. Not having a mental breakdown or anything so dramatic. Not having 'a fit'. Been removing files over a couple of weeks now. I've been asking nicely. Not been asking admins to do anything. Mostly via PM. Some people's inboxes are full...

I don't comment much anymore but just wanted to say I've played this mod since it first came out and always loved it. Turn features on or off depending on my mood, it was always that perfect mod to toss in my extensive mod list because it always bought SOME flavor to the experience I happened to be looking for at the moment, whether it was a main story component or just in the background impacting the overall game play. It's a great mod because it gives you as the player, so much versatility in how you envision and act out your character's story.

I don't get to play much anymore (work, school, life UGH) but if you're riding off into the sunset, I had to take the time to thank you for one of my favorite mods of all time.

[shrtjsrtj]

This reminds me of what happened with Gunslicer, he makes incredible animations with really open permissions but one day he just stopped coming here.

 

Fearing something bad happened to him I tried to find if he was still posting on other sites and found out he was still posting on Patreon(all his mods are free there), so that was a relief. Then I went through the last few pages of his mod thread and it was mostly people posting with the same complaints over and over again, zero thanks for his awesome work, and also the occasional idea for an animation to make. I have never spoken with them, but it made sense why they would just up and leave.

 

Pamatronic is another modder that stopped posting their mods here because of the lack of engagement and, IIRC, support requests that people could easily fix themselves.

 

So if for whatever reason you didn't know it already, you're far from alone on your thoughts here Mono.

 

That said, I love your mods and reading your insightful posts, thanks for letting us know what's up.

[Yuni]

I am sorry things turned out so badly dear.

For what it's worth I really liked Sexlab Survival, still use it. I have my copy backed up safely on Mega. I will continue to use it.

I like the additional sounds that happen during Sexlab Separate orgasm when you press "fuck back". I like the cum addiction. I like the orgasm fatigue.

 

I'm of the old guard. I still play Legendary Edition instead of Special Edition because of Sexlab Disparity, but I also still play Oblivion with Loverslab mods! Even new vegas. I really wish it hadn't stressed you out so much. I hope you feel better. But most of all.

I want you to know some of us did like you and appreciate your work. I'm a programmer myself, for a living. I know how hard it can be to make stuff like this. Best wishes, dear.

[lcewolf]

15 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

 

I am sorry for you about all this. This is not fair for you. You didn't deserve this.

 

Your work has always been incredible and inspiring and you have amaze me with your skill more than once.

 

I have to repeat this again. You didn't deserve all the negative. You are one of the Main core of Loverlabs same as

many other and without you and your work Loverlabs will not be the same.

But I will respect your decision even if I hope you will repost them on loverlabs or somewhere else.

 

You have helped me many time to improve my games and my modding skill.

 

Thank you for all your effort and the creation you did and I hope you will someday come back.

 

Fair well Friend. Take care of yourself.

[lcewolf]

3 hours ago, shrtjsrtj said:

This reminds me of what happened with Gunslicer, he makes incredible animations with really open permissions but one day he just stopped coming here.

 

Fearing something bad happened to him I tried to find if he was still posting on other sites and found out he was still posting on Patreon(all his mods are free there), so that was a relief. Then I went through the last few pages of his mod thread and it was mostly people posting with the same complaints over and over again, zero thanks for his awesome work, and also the occasional idea for an animation to make. I have never spoken with them, but it made sense why they would just up and leave.

 

Pamatronic is another modder that stopped posting their mods here because of the lack of engagement and, IIRC, support requests that people could easily fix themselves.

 

So if for whatever reason you didn't know it already, you're far from alone on your thoughts here Mono.

 

That said, I love your mods and reading your insightful posts, thanks for letting us know what's up.

Thank you for the info about Patreon!

[(\x.x x) (\x.x x)]

2 hours ago, Gyra said:

Generally speaking, if you don’t understand why you might want something, then you don’t need it. It follows the same logic of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” You don’t need to download anything that you don’t understand. If SLS fits your needs and works perfectly fine, why would you need anything else? And why would you need to hear any explanation of why SLS isn’t enough for you? 
 

To understand why the alternative should exist is the beauty of epiphany and independent thought.
 

Speaking as a mod author here and off-site, then, our ability to market what we make is a noteworthy but secondary part of a whole. Personally, I am making stuff that I enjoy, and I have no obligation to explain myself whether in this thread or in my listing.

It wasn't my goal to criticize your mod, or anyone's mod for that matter, I am happy and grateful for every mod maker.

I am also not inclined to criticize the availability of alternatives, quite the opposite: I love being able to tweak games to exactly my preferences.

The only argument I could come up with is so bad, I won't even bother to write it out.

 

Again, I never intended my remark as a criticism of you, Dasha17, BMLE, or CSNA. I would have addressed you directly in the corresponding threads or via PM.

That said, I won't deny that the comment contained some criticism regarding communication.

So please accept my apologies, that I wasn't clearer, and allow me to elaborate:

 

I didn't understand, why you put in the effort to create the mod, or why I might wanna check your mod out. That might be caused entirely by me not reading carefully enough what you (and BM in the case of your mod) have written. Or maybe you didn't attempt to do that. After all, you don't owe me an explanation. I also didn't wanna barge in the support thread asking a question like "Why did you make this? We already have SLS." because that obviously can be read in a very toxic way.

 

However, when you encounter a mod, that at least on the surface level provides only things, that another, very tweakable mod already provides, I think it is fair to ask: Why was it made? What exactly does it offer that the OG-mod doesn't? These are natural questions to ask. I didn't find an answer, which again may be 100% my fault. And I was and still am happy with what I already had, so I moved on. No harm done.

 

Or that is, what I thought. It is clear that Monoman1 didn't perceive these mods as a celebration of the features he invented and his contributions to the LL-modding community.

Although I strongly suspect, that this would have been the correct reading.

But given, that I also didn't get where you were coming from, I can see how someone might interpret your efforts in a more sinister light.

 

This is what I wanted to communicate, and obviously failed to do. Communication, especially in text form, is hard.

[tamai]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:43 AM, Thurlam said:

 

I've created over a dozen mods across various games (including Oblivion) on my main acc, and I have been intending to create Skyrim mods once I have time (and SL p+ matures), but also that doesn't matter in the slightest. Nice gatekeeping tho.

 

You seem to be taking everything people say with bad faith I am not trying to fight you or gatekeep, I am saying that if you have done those things you might be able to understand why he would do such a thing. I was trying to get you to relate to how he feels rather than only thinking about your own feelings.

[Nuascura]

23 minutes ago, (\x.x x) (\x.x x) said:

This is what I wanted to communicate, and obviously failed to do. Communication, especially in text form, is hard.

Ehh... I should probably clarify on my part, as well. What I intended to say is that the part I quoted from your initial comment was unnecessary, and that you had no need to feel bad (now and then) if you have what you need from SLS.

 

I won't digress too far (which I'm guilty of) as posters in this thread should celebrate, not denigrate, Monoman if they have nothing else to say: it's important to sympathize with Monoman yet understand their position; thank them for their contributions yet consider why they said what they said, and not to just take things at face value with no consideration of context.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Gyra

[tamai]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:50 AM, ebbluminous said:

How do you know they are not a mod creator?

 

Example me. The name I use here is not what I use elsewhere, So no mods made by me doesn't no equate to no mods anywhere.

I thought you kids were all about not assuming things about people these days?

 

Reread what i wrote ? I said "..If you have then you should understand" meaning i obviously dont know I was probing whether he has, I insulated that he had not because otherwise he might relate in some way. I wanted to find common ground so I could share why I believe monoman1 removed the mods I wasnt trying to be toxic or speak in bad faith.. all my love ❤️

Edited October 27, 2023 by tamai

[tamai]

On 10/25/2023 at 7:42 PM, Thurlam said:

 

That's totally different, tiktok and instagram are monetized. Freebooting/content theft is a whole different topic than software preservation. Even still, it should be well known that if you post something publicly to the internet, you should expect it to be out there forever. Especially if it's something popular that has existed publicly for years.

 

And no, that is not what gatekeeping means.

 

And all the word 'perhaps' does in that sentence is make it speculative blame throwing, which is all anyone can do because not only did MM1 suddenly delete everything, he opted not to ever even provide any sort of rudimentary explanation.

 

Thats how things are doesn't mean they're right, its a selfish way of thinking regardless thats all i have to say.

[valcon767]

for Monoman

 

just saying thank you gain for all the enjoyment you gave me with your mods.

 

hope you get back to what you enjoy about the game/modding.

 

perhaps we will see you again making mods one day, and if not i still have to say thank you for what you have done.

 

[Tlam99]

17 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Taking down my files was a silent protest of the above cumulative points. This community needs to work on :

• Respect - Respect modders work. Even if you don't like it. It took time and effort and should not be shat on by anyone. Unless it's deliberately setting PCs on fire. 
• Gratitude - Don't want to write a review or post a positive comment? Then just click the like button. Take you one second. Otherwise the vitriol of this place will drown out the positive feedback and modding will suffer. 
• Understanding - Develop understanding of how mods work so that you're not a part of the scripts = bad sheeple. And therefore not disrespecting modders with your lack of understanding. If you don't know something then don't state it as fact...
• Self help - respect mod authors free time. Try to figure it out yourself. See how much time modding takes (above). Maybe you'll learn something along the way and save a modder a headache. 
• Collaboration - Maybe instead of forking off a mod, submit changes that can be implemented. Stuff is beginning to be splintered all over the plac

I must admit, I'm close to the same point. Uploading mods has become some kind of a nightmare for me.

[Thurlam]

28 minutes ago, tamai said:

You seem to be taking everything people say with bad faith I am not trying to fight you or gatekeep, I am saying that if you have done those things you might be able to understand why he would do such a thing. I was trying to get you to relate to how he feels rather than only thinking about your own feelings.

 

I mean, you've been phrasing things in a way that makes it difficult to not interpret what you're saying as being antagonistic; you basically started with "no offense but you're a nobody" and ended with "you're only thinking about your own feelings." And your initial reply was pre-MM1 explanation so we were still in the realm of pure speculation as to his motivations anyway; I chose not to engage in said speculation and was merely commenting on the situation itself. Also this reads as backpedaling from your initial stance which was essentially "either your opinion doesn't matter or it should be the same as mine," which yeah, does kind of seem like a bad faith argument to me.

 

21 minutes ago, tamai said:

Thats how things are doesn't mean they're right, its a selfish way of thinking regardless thats all i have to say.

 

Yeh, I don't necessarily think that's how things should be either. But it does make more sense to me to operate within the bounds of reality rather than idealism. You can't really unscrew that cork. Once it's out there, it's out there. When you publish something publicly that's pretty much the contract you sign, and once it becomes popular/widely used it's practically cemented. Going nuclear in an attempt to subvert this simple truth strikes me as being the selfish act, if anything, frankly. Of course, if that's really the only way MM1 can have peace of mind then so be it; a need for stable mental health certainly supersedes the inconvenience imposed on the public here. At the end of the day of course I can't denigrate anyone's efforts to remain sane/happy. That's practically all life even is when it comes down to it. Just wish he'd have [been able to have] done the same thing most do in this situation and simply step away without actively trying to prevent others from accessing his existing body of work.

[xtremeGoose]

18 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

 

I don't nearly spend as much time in Skyrim as I once did, but SLS was one of the mods I appreciated most, so thank you for all the years of work Monoman1! You didn't make a mess of anything, people just don't really understand how this isn't your job and isn't some product you're paid to support.

[tamai]

9 hours ago, Thurlam said:

mean, you've been phrasing things in a way that makes it difficult to not interpret what you're saying as being antagonistic; you basically started with "no offense but you're a nobody" and ended with "you're only thinking about your own feelings." And your initial reply was pre-MM1 explanation so we were still in the realm of pure speculation as to his motivations anyway; I chose not to engage in said speculation and was merely commenting on the situation itself. Also this reads as backpedaling from your initial stance which was essentially "either your opinion doesn't matter or it should be the same as mine," which yeah, does kind of seem like a bad faith argument to me.

 

The no offense was literal lol I actually meant no offense ^^; I phrased my thoughts wrong, I definitely didn't say you haven't created anything, It's why I deliberately included "..you probably produced..." and "If you have then..".

 

I was going based purely on speculation since yes we didn't know why Monoman1 left at the time but I've seen this scenario time and time again and I can understand and relate to why he decided to pull his mods.

"you're only thinking about your own feelings."
"either your opinion doesn't matter or it should be the same as mine"

 

So from my perspective your opinion is:

 

The mods been on the internet and that means you lose all rights to your work it's been in public so long the people here have ownership of it in some way and you're understanding of that and that people have the right to play it and seek alternative sources for the files and pirate it.

 

So yes if your opinion aligns with what is said above then your opinion doesn't matter and of course people with that POV are only thinking about themselves and I stand by that lol. Only Monoman1's opinion matters since its his content and hard work, my opinion is just in support of Monoman1 decisions so yes you're wrong its just the fact of it im sorry.

 

Nobody is entitled to other people's hard work no matter how you phrase it.

 

9 hours ago, Thurlam said:

Going nuclear in an attempt to subvert this simple truth strikes me as being the selfish act,

  

19 hours ago, Thurlam said:

Can't say I agree with the overall sentiment, and frankly I find the idea of a "silent protest" laughable (until now the public was left clueless as to your rationale

 

Ultimately he doesnt owe you anything, his mods or even an explanation he has a right to be selfish its his content plain and simple. Its hard to believe you dont think you're not coming off as selfish and entitled with everything you've said in the forums recently.

Edited October 27, 2023 by tamai

[pifesh]

In my opinion all this coments about  to delete or not a mod by an author should be posted in " skyrim General discussion" , this section is for downloads and if there is nothing  to download i humbly recommed to moderators to close this topic and remove it from this section, because is confiusing to look for a mod that it has been deleted.

[vladeemer]

On 10/26/2023 at 4:02 AM, Monoman1 said:

So this is the crux. Modding has become a competition and is not a fun hobby anymore. If I am to 'compete' then I'd have to give up my day job which obviously isn't an option. And if my mods or new features are to be chopped up and rehashed anyway then I really don't see the point in continuing. Or at least... continuing publicly.

 

and many of the things I've been working on are practically finished or close to it anyway.

 

 

This is particularly saddening to hear.

 

I'm not sure where the competition thing is coming from, but maybe any mods that could aren't on my radar. Either way, this mod breathed new life into my game as few others have (Public Whore is the only one that's come close, and that is nowhere near as extensive as what SLS offers), to the point where I haven't considered removing it from my load order since, and I know that sentiment is shared by many. We have undoubtedly been too silent on this front, and that's on us.

 

If the community is making it a miserable experience to give them nice things, then taking a break from doing so is a reasonable & advisable solution. Maybe it'll prove a humbling experience for some.

 

Either way I hope you're able to come back to it in a healthy way in the future, and that we get to see what else you've had planned for these mods. Until then, your absence will continue to be keenly felt by many of us.