Legacy of the Dragonborn and Sexlab

[Corsayr]

18 hours ago, Dilios300 said:

In that case, know of any mods that are similar to Legacy? The playthrough I'm preping for is more of an intellectually inclined character and I thought it'd be perfect for Legacy.

This mod Elysium Estates has a very extensive basement with display spots for all (most?) of the unique items you run into in Skyrim. There are no quests to go find them, but with someplace to put them, and empty spots to remind you that you haven't found something it basically has the same overall effect. If you like collecting things. 

 

 

[Dilios300]

4 hours ago, Corsayr said:

This mod Elysium Estates has a very extensive basement with display spots for all (most?) of the unique items you run into in Skyrim. There are no quests to go find them, but with someplace to put them, and empty spots to remind you that you haven't found something it basically has the same overall effect. If you like collecting things. 

 

 

I'll take a look at it, but I'm looking for museum mod, not a house mod. So far in my tests tho, Legacy hasnt destabilized my game nearly as much as I thought it would....

[GenioMaestro]

On 11/27/2019 at 4:22 PM, 27X said:

I've explained three different times why it's a bad mod on the coding level,

You have explained nothing, you have not apported any concrete data or concise explanation or demostration about the theoricals problems that have Legacy Of The Dragonborn.

You talk about problems in the string table when that problems has been solved by Crash Fixes more than 3 years ago. You say is bad coded and create problems after some time whitout any aditional detail.

 

I have Legacy Of The Dragonborn in my savegame of 50MB with more than 100 mods from this web site and 18k animations = 13k character + 5k creature. I have now 213 items displayed in the museum and i addiding more. Look it:

 

Legacy Of The Dragonborn not have any problem of any kind and i apport clear evidences for probe it.

[Dilios300]

So, whats a decent Load Order when you have LotD and LL mods installed? As far as stability goes, I kinda have been just winging it up to this point cause I was never taught much on load order and where things should go. I can post my LO if need be. 

[KoolHndLuke]

On 11/27/2019 at 9:22 AM, 27X said:

*snip*

 

 

I don't use CrashFixes. I've never needed it before and a mod stating that it is or might be needed either in the instructions or in the thread raises a red flag to me.

[GenioMaestro]

5 hours ago, Dilios300 said:

So, whats a decent Load Order when you have LotD and LL mods installed? As far as stability goes, I kinda have been just winging it up to this point cause I was never taught much on load order and where things should go. I can post my LO if need be. 

The Load Order not determine the stability of the game or the probability of the CTD because nothing that we can put inside the ESM/ESP files can cause the CTD. Are simple data files plenty full of DATA records with the information that must put the game in the screen.

 

If the information inside the DATA files is bad ordered only can cause visual gliches, like (black, gray, purple) face, missing textures, floating buildings, weird lights, holes in the ground... or malfunctions in the game like quest not workings, dialog not show or making nothing, activators that not fire, quest that not advance...

 

The best way for have a good load order is using LOOT because for years has been updated for give us the best posible load order. Of course, LOOT is not perfect, not know the 100% of the mods and sometimes order some mods in a bad position. But that have easy solution ussing user metadata as i made with Beastess:

Spoiler

 

That is the only personaliced rule i have in LOOT because Beastess must be loaded after Untamed for have access to the dialog and LOOT, by default, order it in the inverse way.

In the same way, when we use Vortex, that have integrated LOOT functionality, we must put the personaliced rules inside Vortex for get the Load Order that we want:

Spoiler

In vortex i have the rule for Beastess and i add another rule for URWL because must be loaded after ELFX and Climates.

 

The idea that LOOT not works with complex load orders and only can manage correctly a small number of plugings is totally false. I always have more than 200 plugings and NEVER have a problem caused by LOOT. Simply, that two mods say very clear in the web page that are incompatibles and i must remove one of them. We can force the position of the plugings for create a forced compatibility but is not recomended. 

 

If two mods not work good joined look for a compatibility patch. If not exist remove one of them.

Not waste your time making the work of the developer, specially if you a not a developer.

[27X]

4 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

I don't use CrashFixes. I've never needed it before and a mod stating that it is or might be needed either in the instructions or in the thread raises a red flag to me.

You grown, and I'm never gonna play your game on your system and thus have no dog in any fight but the simple truth is CFix fixes an asston of Bethesda problems across the board, never mind badly coded mods.

 

In a perfect world you'd never need cfixes for mods because modders would recognize their limitations and get help or learn updated coding practices that have evolved over the last couple of years; it's not like this shit has been a guarded secret except for a couple of assholes whom insist on being the defacto modders for _______, which is pretty hilarious considering Bethesda can come in at any time and make their life an absolute living hell and their "exclusive super code/mod/model/physics" and patreon money won't mean a damn thing after the lawyers get done with them, even if they're in the legal right. By the time they got their shit cleared all that tasty patreon money would be gone, even probably for people like the SKSE team several of whom make several hundred grand a year as SEngineers.

 

You use CFixes because it was developed over a couple years to fix MANY things, most of which are inherent to Bethesda's pants are the new hat development practices. Fixing things mods do is literally a side effect of that in most instances.

[Dilios300]

Ok, so I did a few tests on the my games stability, and I think I'm able to keep LotD in the LO. I spent the past couple of days just play-testing to see how it felt, and I only seem to crash after a few hours with no problems during that time. And just last night I used Deadly Dragons assault feature to spawn in 12 dragons (some of which are mod added) and let them do their thing for a while. If my game can handle that, then I think I am in the clear.

 

Thanks for the info, lads. Cheers.

[Tiress]

On 11/29/2019 at 9:49 AM, GenioMaestro said:

The Load Order not determine the stability of the game or the probability of the CTD because nothing that we can put inside the ESM/ESP files can cause the CTD. Are simple data files plenty full of DATA records with the information that must put the game in the screen.

What about bad navmesh?

[GenioMaestro]

1 hour ago, Tiress said:

What about bad navmesh?

The navmesh are a special type of record that have, as the name say, mesh included inside the record.

 

For one side, works as any other record when we start the game and follow the rules about DELETED records.

If a mod try modify a record DELETED by other mod we get CTD before see the main menu. Example:

Spoiler

If we load another ESP that try modify the DELETED navmesh we get CTD while the game load the ESP.

 

If the navmesh record exist we can not have any problem. Example:

Spoiler

The navmesh exist in Skyrim and is modified by 3 mods and the navmesh used by the game come from the last mod that modify the navmesh in the same way the game made with any other record.

 

 

Another diferent history is when a mod have mesh not finaliced, bad computed or with bad links because when the game load that cell we get CTD. But that is a problem in the mod.

 

Really, the bad mesh problem can be hidden by the specific load order when the exact record inside the ESP, with the bad navmesh, is overwrited/modified by a good record, with good navmesh, from other mod.

Depending of the exact and specific load order we can get the CTD or not have it.

 

But that CTD enter in the category of bad mesh because happend when the game try load the cell.

Is not a random, extrange and unexplainable CTD. Is a concise CTD that happend always in the same location caused by a bad mesh inside the navmesh.

[Tiress]

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

Really, the bad mesh problem can be hidden by the specific load order when the exact record inside the ESP, with the bad navmesh, is overwrited/modified by a good record, with good navmesh, from other mod.

Depending of the exact and specific load order we can get the CTD or not have it.

And this is exactly why I think load order can have an effect on the stability of the game. Not because the load order would be wrong if the mod is to be blamed, but it can directly affect the likelyhood of a crash.

[GenioMaestro]

4 hours ago, Tiress said:

And this is exactly why I think load order can have an effect on the stability of the game. Not because the load order would be wrong if the mod is to be blamed, but it can directly affect the likelyhood of a crash.

NOT, excuse me but moving the plugings in the load order only can hide the problems of the mods and make us think, incorrectly, "this pluging must be under this other pluging for solve my problems" when that is totally false because the problem, probably, is inside one of the mods, can be inside that two or inside others mods.

The position of each pluging inside the Load Order must be related, only and exclusively, to the overwrites of the records inside the ESP's files and LOOT make that work very well because follow rules that we not know and always give us the best posible order. If we order the plugings manually we can break a lot of rules and cause a lot of problems.

 

When we talk about the stability of the game we refer to the random, extrange and unexplainable CTD that everybody have while playing Skyrim and 90% of the people not know why have it. They try solve and explain it in their own way and, a lot of times, make the the most strange things and give imposible explanations that not have any fundament. That is the main cause of all the diverse explanations that everybody have for the problems in Skyrim including the CTD.

 

When i say:

On 11/29/2019 at 9:49 AM, GenioMaestro said:

The Load Order not determine the stability of the game or the probability of the CTD

Is because, time ago, I publish the results of specific test to demostrate it.

I repeat it today with a diferent mod list because the results not depend of what mods we have installed.

 

Ussing a spreadsheet I order my 250 plugings in pure alphabetical order. I start the game and load my normal savegame with a filesize of 50 MB and one year of history and play 20 minutes. See the log:

Papyrus.0.log

  

If you open my log and go to the line 1376 you can see that, really, the load order is alphabetical:

Spoiler

[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] Script Test Start Dump Mod List
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 1 -> ApachiiHair.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 2 -> ApachiiHairFemales.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 3 -> Update.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 4 -> BeeingFemale.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 5 -> Campfire.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 6 -> CreatureFramework.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 7 -> Dawnguard.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 8 -> SexLab.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 9 -> Devious Devices - Assets.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 10 -> SexLabAroused.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 11 -> Devious Devices - Integration.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 12 -> Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 13 -> Dragonborn.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 14 -> EagleEyePerk.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 15 -> Falskaar.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 16 -> HearthFires.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 17 -> ZaZAnimationPack.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 18 -> Heretical Resources.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 19 -> ItortureFramework.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 20 -> MiasLair.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 21 -> moonpath.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 22 -> paradise_halls.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 23 -> PSQ PlayerSuccubusQuest.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 24 -> Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 25 -> SexLab - Sexual Fame [SLSF].esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 26 -> Skyrim - Utility Mod.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 27 -> Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 28 -> SMSkyrim.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 29 -> UndergroundBathhouse.esm
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 30 -> Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 31 -> 360WalkandRunPlus-RunBackwardSpeedAdjust.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 32 -> 3DNPC.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 33 -> AddItemMenu2.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 34 -> AHZmoreHUD.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 35 -> AI Package Manager.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 36 -> aleGetNaked.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 37 -> AllNudePlay.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 38 -> Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 39 -> AMatterOfTime.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 40 -> AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 41 -> animal_mansion.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 42 -> AnubAnimObj.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 43 -> Apropos.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 44 -> Bashed Patch, 0.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 45 -> Beastess Vampire.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 46 -> BeeingFemaleBasicAddOn.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 47 -> beinz_plugin.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 48 -> Better Vampires.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 49 -> Blacksmithforge water fix DB.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 50 -> Blacksmithforge water fix DG.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 51 -> Blacksmithforge water fix Vanilla.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 52 -> BodySlotsMCM.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 53 -> Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 54 -> Cidhna Mine Expanded.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 55 -> Circular_Reference.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 56 -> Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 57 -> Companions No Werewolf Option.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 58 -> Customizable Camera.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 59 -> Cutting Room Floor.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 60 -> Cynthia20190627.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 61 -> DanarielStormbow.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 62 -> dc-untamed-000.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 63 -> DD_Helpers.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 64 -> Deadly Wenches.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 65 -> DepthsOfSkyrim.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 66 -> Devious Cidhna.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 67 -> Devious Devices - Equip.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 68 -> DeviousFollowers.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 69 -> Deviously Cursed Loot.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 70 -> Deviously Enslaved.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 71 -> DFB - Random Encounters.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 72 -> DisableHDREffects_MCM.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 73 -> DragonPriestMasks.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 74 -> DW.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 75 -> Dwarfsphere.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 76 -> Elephant'sScriptLatencyTester.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 77 -> ELFX - Moonpath.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 78 -> ELFX - Weathers.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 79 -> ELFXEnhancer.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 80 -> EMCompViljaSkyrim.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 81 -> Enemy Variations V4 - NPCs.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 82 -> EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 83 -> ESFCompanions.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 84 -> EtR_HearthfireDungeonAddon.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 85 -> FalskaarRNDPatch.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 86 -> FNIS.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 87 -> FNISSexyMove.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 88 -> Forgotten Wenches.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 89 -> Frostfall.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 90 -> FWB_SexLabDisparity.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 91 -> Giada.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 92 -> GY_NPC_Enemy_Rep_DG.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 93 -> Hair Physics Project.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 94 -> Hateful Wenches.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 95 -> HDT Female Hairstyles.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 96 -> HDTTailsEquipable.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 97 -> HelmetToggle2.02b.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 98 -> HentaiCreatures.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 99 -> HighResTexturePack01.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 100 -> HighResTexturePack02.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 101 -> HighResTexturePack03.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 102 -> Imaginator BETA.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 103 -> Immersive Arousal.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 104 -> Immersive Encounters.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 105 -> Immersive Patrols II.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 106 -> Immersive Wenches.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 107 -> Inconsequential NPCs.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 108 -> InigoPerkPointGiver.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 109 -> Japanese.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 110 -> JaxonzZoom.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 111 -> JobsofSkyrim.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 112 -> Judgment Wenches.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 113 -> KomAnimObjects.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 114 -> KomAnimScaler.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 115 -> KS Hairdos - HDT.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 116 -> KS Hairdo's.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 117 -> LegacyOfTheDragonborn.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 118 -> Liz Follower.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 119 -> LootandDegradation.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 120 -> LoversComfort.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 121 -> LunariWarriors.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 122 -> Memory_Test.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 123 -> Milk Addict.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 124 -> Milker Movil Armor.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 125 -> MilkMod_MilkPumpsBasic.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 126 -> MilkModNEW CF.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 127 -> MilkModNEW HF.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 128 -> MilkModNEW Sanbox.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 129 -> MilkModNEW ZaZ Sanbox.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 130 -> MilkModNEW.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 131 -> MintyLightningMod.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 132 -> MistySkye.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 133 -> Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 134 -> moonpath_questdata.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 135 -> More Interesting Loot for Skyrim.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 136 -> MoreNastyCritters.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 137 -> MrissiTailOfTroubles.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 138 -> multi_cloak.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 139 -> Naked Dungeons.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 140 -> NerniesCityandVillageExpansion.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 141 -> NibblesAnimObjects.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 142 -> NPCs Protected and Uncapped.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 143 -> OBIS.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 144 -> OBISDB.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 145 -> OpenFaceGuardHelmets.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 146 -> pah_andyougetaslave.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 147 -> pah_homesweethome.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 148 -> pahe_lakeview_manor_cell.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 149 -> pahe-DeviousDevices-addon-DDx-patch.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 150 -> pahe-tdf-patch.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 151 -> paradise_halls_farengars_study.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 152 -> paradise_halls_slextension.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 153 -> PermaZONESLegendaryBalanced.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 154 -> PetCollar.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 155 -> PredatorsLostTribesV1.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 156 -> Purewaters.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 157 -> RaceMenu.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 158 -> RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 159 -> RaceMenuPlugin.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 160 -> RDO - iAFT Patch.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 161 -> RDO - USLEEP Patch.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 162 -> RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 163 -> Recorder Follower Base.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 164 -> Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 165 -> Remodeled Armor - Underwear.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 166 -> Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dawnguard.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 167 -> Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dragonborn.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 168 -> Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 169 -> RutahTattooPack.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 170 -> SAP.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 171 -> Sassy.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 172 -> SC07SexLabRandomAttack.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 173 -> Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 174 -> ScriptTest.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 175 -> SexLab Aroused Creatures.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 176 -> SexLab Beastess.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 177 -> SexLab Cumshot.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 178 -> SexLab Eager NPCs.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 179 -> SexLab TDF Aggressive Prostitution.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 180 -> SexLab_DibellaCult.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 181 -> SexLab_DibellaCult_Sisters.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 182 -> SexLab_Solutions.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 183 -> SexlabAmmoUnequip.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 184 -> SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 185 -> SexLabCumRegenerator.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 186 -> SexLabMassMatchMaker.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 187 -> SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 188 -> SexLabSquirtR.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 189 -> SexLabTools.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 190 -> SexyBanditCaptives.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 191 -> Shout Like a Virgin.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 192 -> Size Does Matter.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 193 -> SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 194 -> SkyFalls + SkyMills Falskaar.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 195 -> SkyFalls DB + FS Small Waterfalls.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 196 -> Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 197 -> Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 198 -> Skyrim Shadow Striping Fix.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 199 -> skyrimespawn.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 200 -> SkyrimUnhinged.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 201 -> SkyrimURWL.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 202 -> SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 203 -> SkyUI.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 204 -> SL Deadly Drain.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 205 -> SLA Monitor Widget.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 206 -> SLAL_AnimationsByLeito.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 207 -> SLAL_K4Anims.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 208 -> SLAL_ProxyAnimObjects.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 209 -> SLALAnimObj.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 210 -> SLALAnimObjBillyy.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 211 -> SLAnimLoader.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 212 -> slavers_spellbook.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 213 -> Slaverun_Reloaded.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 214 -> SlaveTats.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 215 -> SlaveTatsEventsBridge.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 216 -> SlaveTatsMagicManager.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 217 -> SLPleasure.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 218 -> SLSO.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 219 -> SLSW Addicted.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 220 -> SMIM-Merged-All.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 221 -> SMSkyrim - 3DNPC Patch.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 222 -> SMSkyrim - Alternate Start + General Patch.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 223 -> SMSkyrim - Compressed.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 224 -> SMSkyrim - Encounters.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 225 -> SofiaFollower.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 226 -> SOS - B3lisario UNP Addon.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 227 -> SOS - Revealing Armors.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 228 -> SOS - Shop.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 229 -> SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 230 -> SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 231 -> SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 232 -> SOS_Merge.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 233 -> SOSRaceMenu.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 234 -> The Brotherhood of Old.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 235 -> The Manipulator.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 236 -> TheCoenaculiCBBE.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 237 -> TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 238 -> ub_npc_rework.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 239 -> UIExtensions.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 240 -> Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 241 -> UnreadBooksGlow.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 242 -> VRJessi.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 243 -> WARZONES - Civil Unrest.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 244 -> Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 245 -> Weapons & Armor_TrueWeaponsLvlLists.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 246 -> WetandCold.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 247 -> WetFunction.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 248 -> XPMSE.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 249 -> ZIA_Ancient Pack_V4.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 250 -> ZIA_Complete Pack_V4.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 251 -> ZIA_Daedric Pack_V4.esp
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] 252 -> 
[11/30/2019 - 05:21:25PM] Script Test End Dump Mod List

 

Of course, the game load the ESM's before the ESP's but all my ESP's are in pure alphabetical order and my game works, not make CTD and 90% of the mods have a perfect functionality.

 

A lot of people think that the Load Order is critical for the game but that is totally false. In the 90% of the situations the Load Order inside the file plugings.txt not determine if the game works or make CTD. Only determine the correct functionality of the mods, the dialog, the quest, the activators... but the base game and the basic functionality of the mods always works. A bad load order, inclusive a pure alphabetical order, only can cause malfunctions in the mods but can not cause CTD.

 

The causes of the CTD are in other sides, not in the exact order of the plugings.

The game can have CTD when we miss a master, or when we have a bad skelton, or a bad mesh...

All others CTD are caused by memory problems and games bad configured.

[Tiress]

1 hour ago, GenioMaestro said:

NOT, excuse me but moving the plugings in the load order only can hide the problems of the mods and make us think, incorrectly, "this pluging must be under this other pluging for solve my problems" when that is totally false because the problem, probably, is inside one of the mods, can be inside that two or inside others mods.

If you move the problematic mod higher in LO and the crashes stop, had the change of LO effect on CTD? It won't fix the mod, but it damn sure had an effect on the stability.

Quote

The position of each pluging inside the Load Order must be related, only and exclusively, to the overwrites of the records inside the ESP's files and LOOT make that work very well because follow rules that we not know and always give us the best posible order.

If we order the mods manually we can break a lot of rules and cause a lot of problems.

LOOT is not xEdit, it doesn't scan plugins for conflicts. It takes into account relations between them (like Masters, ESM/ESP..), bash tags if they are present, and metadata supplied by the authors so it's something premade.

 

Therefore I don't believe it to be the best way to sort your plugins. It's a great way to set up a base, but it has it's limits. Well, unless you go the route of creating and maintaining your own metadata and mod groups, but I find that just too much of a chore.

Quote

A lot of people think that the Load Order is critical for the game but that is totally false. In the 90% of the situations the Load Order inside the file plugings.txt not determine if the game works or make CTD. Only determine the correct functionality of the mods, the dialog, the quest, the activators... but the base game and the basic functionality of the mods always works. A bad load order, inclusive a pure alphabetical order, only can cause malfunctions in the mods but can not cause CTD.

It's not critical for running the game, but unless you want to encounter strange oddities, missing dialogues and broken quests, you better make sure you have correct LO and remaining conflicts patched. And given those things are pretty crucial to some mods, one might even say that LO is crucial too.

[GenioMaestro]

1 hour ago, Tiress said:

If you move the problematic mod higher in LO and the crashes stop, had the change of LO effect on CTD? It won't fix the mod, but it damn sure had an effect on the stability.

If you (install a patch for) the problematic mod and the crashes stop, had the (patch) effect on CTD?

It won't fix the (original) mod, but it damn sure had an effect on the stability.

 

If you have a system for (patch) the plugings moving it in the load order you must published it.

Move the plugings in the load order only can solve the CTD in one per 1000 situations by pure lucky.

And only when we talk about specific problems in two pluging with a direct relation.

 

 

1 hour ago, Tiress said:

LOOT is not xEdit, it doesn't scan plugins for conflicts.

Read the public documentation and understand how works the tools before talk about it:

Quote

Overlap Rules

Overlap rules are applied after group rules, and have lower priority. They are also soft rules, and are ignored as necessary to avoid cyclic interactions. Two plugins are said to overlap if they both contain a copy of a record. They don’t necessarily have to make any edits to the record for there to be an overlap, it just needs to be in both plugins.

If two plugins overlap, and one overrides more records than the other, then the rule is to load the plugin that overrides fewer records after the other plugin. This is done to help maximise the effect that each plugin has. If the two plugins override the same number of records, the overlap is ignored and no rule exists.

 

 

Excuse me but LOOT works very well. The people that say other thing not know how works LOOT and not know how works the ESP's and the load order. They try solve theirs conflicts moving the plugings manually in the load order and that only cause more problems. The only correct way for solve a conflict is create a patch. For that the developers create, publish and provide patchs.

 

A lot of people has abused in a tremendous way of the fantastic and very ussefull hability of manually move the mods and the plugings in Mod Organizer managing mod list and pluging list in very caotic ways, from alphabetic way to parallel way to groups by type to groups by function, creating mods list and plugings list that NEVER can work and only give problems. 

Exactly for that the creator of MO, public called Tannin and main developer of Vortex, include integrated LOOT functionaly inside Vortex and NEVER go to include the manual functionality because that manual functionality give more problems than solutions. Thousands and thousands of users of MO request the capacity of manually move the mods and the plugings and Tannin always say the same: NO = NEVER

 

Learn that the best way for order yours plugings is use LOOT and create patches. Stop making it manually.

[Tiress]

11 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Read the public documentation and understand how works the tools before talk about it:

Well, I stand corrected, I don't know how I could've missed this part of the article, thank you for pointing that out.

Quote

Excuse me but LOOT works very well. The people that say other thing not know how works LOOT and not know how works the ESP's and the load order. They try solve theirs conflicts moving the plugings manually in the load order and that only cause more problems. The only correct way for solve a conflict is create a patch. For that the developers create, publish and provide patchs.

I never said it doesn't work well, but even if it checks records for overrides, it still has it's limits.

 

If developers are supposed to provide patches, what if they are not modding anymore? What if there are hundreds of mods editing same records? Are they supposed to patch them all?

 

Ultimately, the responsibility for your LO falls at you as a user. And if you want to make sure the load order is correct, you have to check the conflicts and solve them either by adjusting LO/adding metadata to LOOT (because LOOT isn't perfect), or using/creating a patch. Which one you choose depends on several factors, but from my personal experience, I usually adjust LO if it would mean less work than patching.

Quote

Exactly for that the creator of MO, public called Tannin and main developer of Vortex, include integrated LOOT functionaly inside Vortex and NEVER go to include the manual functionality because that manual functionality give more problems than solutions.

Yes, because Vortex, even though it has some advanced functions, is supposed to cover needs of majority of users so it has to be simple enough to use by users who have no idea what load order even is.

Quote

Thousands and thousands of users of MO request the capacity of manually move the mods and the plugings and Tannin always say the same: NO = NEVER

Careful with those numbers.

 

I always thought, MO is for advanced users, that's why it allows you to do so much, because it's expected of you that you know what you are doing.

Quote

Learn that the best way for order yours plugings is use LOOT and create patches. Stop making it manually.

What is the difference between letting LOOT moving a mod to a certain position in LO and me moving it there manually? The difference is I know exactly why I need it there. I know what it's dependencies are, I know what the author recommends, I know all the conflicts and I have decided it's best to be placed there to fulfill it's funcion based on that knowledge.

 

I have a feeling you think I don't use LOOT at all, which is not true. Every time I start a new setup, the LOOT is the first thing to sort the plugins, I just don't have much use for it afterwards.

[GenioMaestro]

19 minutes ago, Tiress said:

...

You are right on many points but I cannot agree on other points.

 

Of course, the load order is your responsability and you decide WHAT mods you install. Then, if you want use a bad load order, plenty full of problems, conficts and incompatible mods, nobody can prohibit it to you. But not request a patch for every conficting mod or a perfect load order generated by LOOT because, in that situations, you must create yours patch MANUALLY and manage the load order MANUALLY.

The problem not come from the mods or the utils, come from the bad selection of mods.

Is your responsability make a good selections of mods with the mininum incompatibilities and conflicts.

 

Of course, nobody can know, exactly, EVERY ONE of the incompatibilities and conflicts than can create one mod when is combined with another 200 mods from 100k or 200k existing mods. And for that, i said:

On 11/29/2019 at 9:49 AM, GenioMaestro said:

If two mods not work good joined look for a compatibility patch. If not exist remove one of them.

Not waste your time making the work of the developer, specially if you a not a developer.

Seems that everybody must be and expert in Tes5Edit and must be able to create their own compatiblity patch for every combination of conflictings mods. But that is totally false.

Only a developer can create the correct patch. If you are not a developer i not know WHY are you creating yours owns patches with Tes5Edit. If two mods collide and not works good when you join it remove one of them. Not waste your time.

 

A lot of pleople waste more time solving the problems in the load order than playing the game.

They look for exact mod order for solve problems at file level, sometimes expanding BSA's.

Expent tremendous amount of time in Tes5Edit looking and solving the conflicts in the ESP's.

Make gigantic combination of mods with Merge Plugings only for have more than 250 plugings.

All that not have any sense from my point of view and is a stupid waste of time, imo, of course.

Ussing a bit of common sense and dropping some mods all the problems are solved.

 

Seems that the people want wasting their time making all that only because want play with 500 plugings when the game only support 250. Want use specific combinations of mods when the developer or the users say that are incompatibles or give problems. Seems that want use all the mods at the same times when that is tecnically imposible. Please, not waste your time. Use a bit of common sense and expent your time playing the game.

 

1 hour ago, Tiress said:

What is the difference between letting LOOT moving a mod to a certain position in LO and me moving it there manually? The difference is I know exactly why I need it there. I know what it's dependencies are, I know what the author recommends, I know all the conflicts and I have decided it's best to be placed there to fulfill it's funcion based on that knowledge.

You can make that for one specific pluging when is combined with a specific group of plugings.

Nobody can make that for every pluging when is combined with ANY combination of plugings.

If one specific pluging MUST BE under another specifc pluging you MUST create a rule in LOOT.

Move the mod manually is stupid because when you add another mod your best position can be incorrect.

 

In my load order i ussing Beastess and Untamed at the same time when the developer say:

Conflicts With:

Untamed - Creature dialogue conflictes

 

That line is very evident and the developer not make a patch because none patch can solve the problem. Look:

Spoiler

The web page not allow me put the image of the conflicts in Tes5Edit.

Do you think that conflicts can cause a problem in every dialog with every creature? NOT.

The problem is not caused by a conflict at ESP level or by a conflict at file level. 

Is caused by how the game process the scripts and the dialogs.

And the only posible solution is force the position of the plugings in the load order.

 

Sometimes we need relate the position of two pluging for solve specific problems and for that LOOT and Vortex have the posiblity of add manual rules. But that posiblity must be used as a exception only when we not have other posibility. That rule is automatically aplied every time we change the load order. Is not neesary revise it or verify it. We have a 100% security about the rule is apllied.

If you move the mod manually the position can be not correct when you change the load order.

 

1 hour ago, Tiress said:

I have a feeling you think I don't use LOOT at all, which is not true. Every time I start a new setup, the LOOT is the first thing to sort the plugins, I just don't have much use for it afterwards.

Every player must use LOOT every time the load order change.

Vortex make it automatically for me and i NEVER have a problem caused by LOOT or Vortex.

I change my mod list every week, addiding mods for test it and removing others mods ussing ReSaver, because the game only support 250 plugings, for one entire year and I not find a problem until today.

 

Is not necesary start a New Game every time we change the mod list. Use LOOT only with small mod list is stupid, imo, of course, because a small list only have a small number of problems and conflicts. We not need LOOT for manage 50 plugings.

When we have 100 or 200 plugings is when use LOOT is strictly obligatory because we can not know every problem, relation and conflict in each pluging and LOOT apply a lot of rules in an automatic way for give us the best load order. Can not be perfect and sometimes can need manual adjust. But manage a list whit 200 plugings in a manual way when we have a tool that make it automatically is stupid, imo, of course.

Is similar to say not use a mod manager and install yours mod manually. Another aberrattion, imo, of course.

 

I not know exactly WHY the people assure that LOOT can not manage a big list of plugings.

What are the tremendous errors that break the game and force us to order your plugings list manually.

Plase, if somebody can explaing it to me i can be very gratefull.

 

But i think we must open another support ticket because all ours words are totally out of the original post.

[Grey Cloud]

14 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

Make gigantic combination of mods with Merge Plugings only for have more than 250 plugings.

All that not have any sense from my point of view and is a stupid waste of time, imo, of course.

Ussing a bit of common sense and dropping some mods all the problems are solved.

I couldn't agree more with this. My way of doing things is to get the game to do what I want and how I want with the minimum number of mods and plug-ins.

I use very few merges, mostly for my army of followers. I don't make my own patches and I generally avoid mods which require more than one. I recently tried Wyre Bash and the much vaunted bashed patch and found that it did not do anything worth having so it has gone.

[bandygirl1]

Loot sorting provides a very good base line. But the ability to manually resolve conflicts and create patches with XEdit, and ease to manually adjust LO cannot be overstated. Yes, if you don't know what you are doing it can cause more problems than it solves, but that is true of most anything.

 

 

[travelmedic]

If someone is looking for an alternative to LOTD, then consider checking out Build Your Own Breezehome on the Nexus.  I haven't used it myself, yet, but it says there is a display for every unique item in the game, without all of the added quests.

 

 

Back to the original post in this thread, I use LOTD and most of the supported mods, a bunch of SL mods, and a bunch of other followers/quests/armors and other stuff.  I have 253 active plugins after I merged several weapons and armors and smaller non-scripted mods.  My current game has over 740 hours at this point, with more than 1200 items in my museum.  I do use Crash Fixes and ENBoost, but my game has been remarkably stable.  Whether LOTD is an example of bad coding or good, a stable game in conjunction with SL and other mods is possible.

[GenioMaestro]

1 hour ago, bandygirl1 said:

Loot sorting provides a very good base line. But the ability to manually resolve conflicts and create patches with XEdit, and ease to manually adjust LO cannot be overstated. Yes, if you don't know what you are doing it can cause more problems than it solves, but that is true of most anything.

Move the plugings in the load order, up or down, NEVER solve the conflicts. Simply change the winner of the conflicts. Sometimes that is enough for two conflicting modifications to work in the correct way without using a patch. But it is not recommended to manually move the plugings in the load order because any other plugings you add can change the conflicts and the position of those two plugings may not be correct and you are forced to revise again the conflicts and the positions.

Why make that manually one time after another when we have a tool that make it automatically?

I request that any additional message on this subject be published on the topic created by Tiress.