Best way to manage load order..

[Tiress]

Just a continuation from this topic as we got off topic..

 

One question for the start for you @GenioMaestro .. do you use Wrye Bash, Mator Smash, or anything of this sort to manage leveled lists?

 

 

2 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

The problem not come from the mods or the utils, come from the bad selection of mods.

Is your responsability make a good selections of mods with the mininum incompatibilities and conflicts.

 

Of course, nobody can know, exactly, EVERY ONE of the incompatibilities and conflicts than can create one mod when is combined with another 200 mods from 100k or 200k existing mods. And for that, i said:

 

If two mods not work good joined look for a compatibility patch. If not exist remove one of them.

Not waste your time making the work of the developer, specially if you a not a developer.

Sorry, but those last 2 lines are just nonsense. That would be almost like saying "If developers of Skyrim did not create a memory patch, don't waste your time creating one, you are not the developer."

 

It really depends on what you want to achieve with your game, some even enjoy just modding it.

Quote

Seems that everybody must be and expert in Tes5Edit and must be able to create their own compatiblity patch for every combination of conflictings mods. But that is totally false.

Only a developer can create the correct patch. If you are not a developer i not know WHY are you creating yours owns patches with Tes5Edit. If two mods collide and not works good when you join it remove one of them. Not waste your time.

You are correct, it's totally false, I never claimed it's not. In fact, you don't have to use xEdit at all and still have a working game. BUT...

 

If you want to have the game behave the way you want, it's not always possible without you edditing/patching stuff yourself.

 

If you have 2 perfecly functional mods and want to use both, because they don't do the same thing, they just happen to be conflicting in some areas, and there is no compatibility patch for them, why wouldn't you make one? Because it's too much work? Who cares if you wan't to use them both? There might be no alternative, or only the one that doesn't really work well with what you had on mind. Based on your suggestion I'd have to either drop that mod or create a new one that would be either compatible right away, or supply it with a compatibility patch. That I would call wasted time, when what you can simly do is patch what already exists..

Quote

 Seems that the people want wasting their time making all that only because want play with 500 plugings when the game only support 250. Want use specific combinations of mods when the developer or the users say that are incompatibles or give problems. Seems that want use all the mods at the same times when that is tecnically imposible. Please, not waste your time. Use a bit of common sense and expent your time playing the game.

Number of plugins has nothing to do with that. Well, at least not in my case. Why are you so opposed to patch creation? I dare to say that majority of compatibility patches are created by users, were they all just wasting their time? Or they invested their time to have their game more enjoyable?

Quote

 You can make that for one specific pluging when is combined with a specific group of plugings.

Nobody can make that for every pluging when is combined with ANY combination of plugings.

If one specific pluging MUST BE under another specifc pluging you MUST create a rule in LOOT.

Move the mod manually is stupid because when you add another mod your best position can be incorrect.

I'd refrain from using "MUST". LOOT is in no way a master of load orders that should be strictly followed. No matter how efficient it is in sorting your plugins, I will never just blindly use what it throws at me because I have no idea why it sorted the plugins the way it did.

Quote

Sometimes we need relate the position of two pluging for solve specific problems and for that LOOT and Vortex have the posiblity of add manual rules. But that posiblity must be used as a exception only when we not have other posibility. That rule is automatically aplied every time we change the load order. Is not neesary revise it or verify it. We have a 100% security about the rule is apllied.

Yet we have no idea why it is sorted the way it is and what is the actual impact on the records that were conflicting without manually checking it ourself and, if necessary, correcting it.

Quote

If you move the mod manually the position can be not correct when you change the load order.

As it would be if you'd let LOOT sort it. I think I'm able to determine if the possition is correct or not.

Quote

Every player must use LOOT every time the load order change.

Vortex make it automatically for me and i NEVER have a problem caused by LOOT or Vortex.

I change my mod list every week, addiding mods for test it and removing others mods ussing ReSaver, because the game only support 250 plugings, for one entire year and I not find a problem until today.

No, not really. Avarage players perhaps, but I can't agree with this being applied to everyone.

The fact you never had a problem with it actually proves nothing. I'm not saying you were lucky, but what works for you doesn't necessarily have to work for others.

Quote

When we have 100 or 200 plugings is when use LOOT is strictly obligatory because we can not know every problem, relation and conflict in each pluging and LOOT apply a lot of rules in an automatic way for give us the best load order. Can not be perfect and sometimes can need manual adjust. But manage a list whit 200 plugings in a manual way when we have a tool that make it automatically is stupid, imo, of course.

Is similar to say not use a mod manager and install yours mod manually. Another aberrattion, imo, of course.

See, the thing is I don't have to manage the whole list manually as I sorted it first with LOOT, but after that I check everything in xEdit and adjust the LO manually if necessary. No need to customize metadata in LOOT and use it again to sort LO, I know where to put those plugins so I put them there manually.

 

I think you find LOOT so obligatory because you change your LO quiet often. I don't, that might be one of the reasons why we have different opinins about this.

Quote

I not know exactly WHY the people assure that LOOT can not manage a big list of plugings.

What are the tremendous errors that break the game and force us to order your plugings list manually.

Plase, if somebody can explaing it to me i can be very gratefull.

Who said it can't manage big list of plugins? I bet it would be capable of managing even biger lists than 250 plugins, but as was said several times, it's not perfect and sometimes it's just easier to move the plugin manually.

 

[bandygirl1]

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/96374-legacy-of-the-dragonborn-and-sexlab/?do=findComment&comment=2828407

*Continuing conversation from the other thread*

 

No. Changing the LO manually doesn't actually remove the conflict. What it does do, is allow correct sequencing for drag and drop modification of mods with XEdit, which if done correctly, WILL remove those conflicts. That way the user can maintain the changes wanted from both mods ( instead of all of one mods changes which is all that adjusting LO rules is going to get you ) regardless of what might be later added to the LO. And as XEdit backs up files, it's simple to revert if needed.

 

I'm NOT saying Loot has no place. I'm saying it's not the magic cure-all you proclaim it to be Genio, and that the methods you're denigrating here ABSOLUTELY have their's as well.

[GenioMaestro]

5 hours ago, Tiress said:

do you use Wrye Bash, Mator Smash, or anything of this sort to manage leveled lists?

I use Wrye Bash for manage my leveled list. Is the only thing i make with Wrye Bash. I disable and skip any other functionality.  You can see it in my alphabetical order list: 44 -> Bashed Patch, 0.esp

 

 

5 hours ago, Tiress said:

If you have 2 perfecly functional mods and want to use both, because they don't do the same thing, they just happen to be conflicting in some areas, and there is no compatibility patch for them, why wouldn't you make one? Because it's too much work? Who cares if you wan't to use them both? There might be no alternative, or only the one that doesn't really work well with what you had on mind. Based on your suggestion I'd have to either drop that mod or create a new one that would be either compatible right away, or supply it with a compatibility patch. That I would call wasted time, when what you can simly do is patch what already exists..

First, nobody can prohibit the things that you make with your game and your mods in your house.

Everybody is totally free to make every they want. If they want use mods that collide they can. If want make a patch for compatilize them and publish it, perfectly. If not publish it their motives have.

We can not discuse about it.

 

The discusion point is WHY use incompatilble mods that need a patch that not exist.

Simply because you want? Simply for have the gratification of see two incompatible mods working joined?

Do you know that, sometimes, you can need weeks for make the patch? Do you have that free time?

Do you have enougth knowledge for create the patch and the necesary time for verify it?

Then, go for it. Nobody can prohibit you make that.

 

The second point is WHAT solve the patch and that, sometimes, depend of the personal point of each person.

If the problem is a simply visual glich, maybe, you can not support it and you must make a patch.

If the problem is a simply fail in some aditional functionallity, maybe, you can't control yourself for not use it.

If the problem affect the main functionality of the mod and is imposible use it whitout a patch, maybe, the best option is drop one of the mods and wait for a patch from the developer.

But if you have the time and the knowledge, then, go for it. Nobody can prohibit you make that.

 

Of course, a lot of times the patch is made i 5 seconds simply moving one record with Tes5Edit.

But i'm totally sure you need, at least, 5 MINUTES for locate the problem and the record while others times you can need hours or days, simply for locate the problem, and nobody can know how many time for solve it.

Do you want make that? Go for it.

 

5 hours ago, Tiress said:

LOOT is in no way a master of load orders that should be strictly followed. No matter how efficient it is in sorting your plugins, I will never just blindly use what it throws at me because I have no idea why it sorted the plugins the way it did.

Why not? Where are your detailed explanations of the problems caused by LOOT?

If you not know how works is because you have not read the public documentation.

If the documentation is not enougth you can read the public source code. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Tiress said:

Yet we have no idea why it is sorted the way it is and what is the actual impact on the records that were conflicting without manually checking it ourself and, if necessary, correcting it.

Maybe you are looking the conflicts before have a problem in the game?

Maybe you are one of that persons that think you must correct and solve every conflict?

Do you know that 90% of the conflict must be here and 99% of the rest not have any influence in the game?

 

 

5 hours ago, Tiress said:

As it would be if you'd let LOOT sort it. I think I'm able to determine if the possition is correct or not.

Are you totally sure? This is my actual pluging list after LOOT correct my alphabetical list.

Spoiler

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm
Falskaar.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
ApachiiHairFemales.esm
BeeingFemale.esm
SMSkyrim.esp
SexLab.esm
SexLabAroused.esm
ZaZAnimationPack.esm
MiasLair.esp
Campfire.esm
CreatureFramework.esm
Devious Devices - Assets.esm
Devious Devices - Integration.esm
Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
EagleEyePerk.esm
Heretical Resources.esm
moonpath.esm
UndergroundBathhouse.esm
ITortureFramework.esm
PSQ PlayerSuccubusQuest.esm
Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
SexLab - Sexual Fame [SLSF].esm
Skyrim - Utility Mod.esm
paradise_halls.esm
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp
Cutting Room Floor.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
360WalkandRunPlus-RunBackwardSpeedAdjust.esp
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
PredatorsLostTribesV1.esp
LegacyoftheDragonborn.esp
DepthsOfSkyrim.esp
3DNPC.esp
AHZmoreHUD.esp
AI Package Manager.esp
AMatterOfTime.esp
UIExtensions.esp
AddItemMenu2.esp
AllNudePlay.esp
WARZONES - Civil Unrest.esp
paradise_halls_SLExtension.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp
NerniesCityandVillageExpansion.esp
Shout Like a Virgin.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp
OBIS.esp
SexLab_Solutions.esp
SkyrimURWL.esp
RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp
SexyBanditCaptives.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp
SexLab_DibellaCult.esp
ELFX - Weathers.esp
SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp
Cidhna Mine Expanded.esp
MrissiTailOfTroubles.esp
DFB - Random Encounters.esp
Immersive Wenches.esp
KS Hairdo's.esp
Enemy Variations V4 - NPCs.esp
NPCs Protected and Uncapped.esp
The Brotherhood of Old.esp
AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
AnubAnimObj.esp
Apropos.esp
BeeingFemaleBasicAddOn.esp
BodySlotsMCM.esp
Circular_Reference.esp
SkyUI.esp
Customizable Camera.esp
DD_Helpers.esp
DW.esp
Deadly Wenches.esp
DisableHDREffects_MCM.esp
Elephant'sScriptLatencyTester.esp
FNIS.esp
FNISSexyMove.esp
FWB_SexLabDisparity.esp
FalskaarRNDPatch.esp
Forgotten Wenches.esp
GY_NPC_Enemy_Rep_DG.esp
HDT Female Hairstyles.esp
HDTTailsEquipable.esp
Hair Physics Project.esp
HelmetToggle2.02b.esp
Immersive Arousal.esp
InigoPerkPointGiver.esp
Japanese.esp
JaxonzZoom.esp
JobsofSkyrim.esp
Judgment Wenches.esp
KS Hairdos - HDT.esp
KomAnimObjects.esp
KomAnimScaler.esp
LootandDegradation.esp
Memory_Test.esp
MilkModNEW.esp
MilkModNEW CF.esp
MilkModNEW HF.esp
MilkModNEW Sanbox.esp
MilkModNEW ZaZ Sanbox.esp
Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp
MoreNastyCritters.esp
NibblesAnimObjects.esp
OBISDB.esp
OpenFaceGuardHelmets.esp
PermaZONESLegendaryBalanced.esp
Purewaters.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
Remodeled Armor - Underwear.esp
Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dawnguard.esp
Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dragonborn.esp
RutahTattooPack.esp
SAP.esp
SC07SexLabRandomAttack.esp
SLA Monitor Widget.esp
SLALAnimObj.esp
SLALAnimObjBillyy.esp
SLAL_AnimationsByLeito.esp
SLAL_K4Anims.esp
SLAL_ProxyAnimObjects.esp
SLAnimLoader.esp
SLSO.esp
SMSkyrim - Compressed.esp
SOS - B3lisario UNP Addon.esp
SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp
SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp
SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp
SOSRaceMenu.esp
ScriptTest.esp
SexLab Aroused Creatures.esp
SexLab Cumshot.esp
SexLab TDF Aggressive Prostitution.esp
SexLabCumRegenerator.esp
SexLabMassMatchMaker.esp
SexLabSquirtR.esp
SexLabTools.esp
SexlabAmmoUnequip.esp
Size Does Matter.esp
SlaveTats.esp
SlaveTatsEventsBridge.esp
SlaveTatsMagicManager.esp
TheCoenaculiCBBE.esp
UnreadBooksGlow.esp
Weapons & Armor_TrueWeaponsLvlLists.esp
WetFunction.esp
WetandCold.esp
XPMSE.esp
aleGetNaked.esp
animal_mansion.esp
EMCompViljaSkyrim.esp
Milk Addict.esp
Inconsequential NPCs.esp
Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp
ZIA_Complete Pack_V4.esp
SkyrimUnhinged.esp
Dwarfsphere.esp
Immersive Encounters.esp
SMIM-Merged-All.esp
Slaverun_Reloaded.esp
Deviously Cursed Loot.esp
RDO - iAFT Patch.esp
SkyFalls DB + FS Small Waterfalls.esp
The Manipulator.esp
dc-untamed-000.esp
SexLab Beastess.esp
SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp
moonpath_questdata.esp
PAH_HomeSweetHome.esp
PAH_AndYouGetASlave.esp
Skyrim Shadow Striping Fix.esp
Immersive Patrols II.esp
MistySkye.esp
Frostfall.esp
SofiaFollower.esp
SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp
DeviousFollowers.esp
Hateful Wenches.esp
Devious Cidhna.esp
MilkMod_MilkPumpsBasic.esp
Recorder Follower Base.esp
Deviously Enslaved.esp
More Interesting Loot for Skyrim.esp
Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
SOS - Shop.esp
Blacksmithforge water fix DB.esp
Blacksmithforge water fix Vanilla.esp
Sassy.esp
SMSkyrim - 3DNPC Patch.esp
DragonPriestMasks.esp
SexLab Eager NPCs.esp
Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp
ESFCompanions.esp
Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer.esp
Beastess Vampire.esp
Better Vampires.esp
Blacksmithforge water fix DG.esp
Companions No Werewolf Option.esp
Cynthia20190627.esp
EtR_HearthfireDungeonAddon.esp
ZIA_Daedric Pack_V4.esp
LoversComfort.esp
pahe_lakeview_manor_cell.esp
LunariWarriors.esp
Naked Dungeons.esp
slavers_spellbook.esp
DanarielStormbow.esp
VRJessi.esp
Devious Devices - Equip.esp
ELFX - Moonpath.esp
Giada.esp
HentaiCreatures.esp
Imaginator BETA.esp
Liz Follower.esp
Milker Movil Armor.esp
PetCollar.esp
RDO - USLEEP Patch.esp
SL Deadly Drain.esp
SLPleasure.esp
SLSW Addicted.esp
SMSkyrim - Encounters.esp
SOS - Revealing Armors.esp
SOS_Merge.esp
SexLab_DibellaCult_Sisters.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills Falskaar.esp
TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
ZIA_Ancient Pack_V4.esp
beinz_plugin.esp
mintylightningmod.esp
multi_cloak.esp
pahe-DeviousDevices-addon-DDx-patch.esp
pahe-tdf-patch.esp
paradise_halls_farengars_study.esp
skyrimespawn.esp
ub_npc_rework.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
SMSkyrim - Alternate Start + General Patch.esp
ELFXEnhancer.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
 

Can you say me if the position of my plugings is correct and WHAT problems going to cause in my game?

 

 

5 hours ago, Tiress said:

No, not really. Avarage players perhaps, but I can't agree with this being applied to everyone.

The fact you never had a problem with it actually proves nothing. I'm not saying you were lucky, but what works for you doesn't necessarily have to work for others.

And what is the diference? Why the average players can use LOOT while the advanced players can not use it?

Maybe we are ussing diferent programs? Because the game and the tools are the same.

Maybe someone think i can have lucky for years ussing diferent mod list? Can not be lucky.

Why work for me and not work for others users? What is the diference and where is it?

 

The only diferent thing is the exact mods that we use and, based in yours words, seems that the problem is not in the number of plugings. Then, must be in the specific combinations of mods and that not depend if the user is average or advanced because any user can install complex mods as Requiem, Sperg or SkyRe.

 

Maybe you want talk about the complexity of the mod list and that can depend of the user level.

Here you can have some point of true because when we use specific combinations of mods LOOT can have some problems for order it correctly. But you know what mods are? 

 

 

Seems that we are talking, one more time, about the ethernal problem of Skyrim.

People continue thinking that have CTD in Skyrim is totally normal, as we are in 2012-2013.

Seems that NMM, in 2019, have the same problem that have in the past years.

Seems that LOOT order the mods in a caotic way like happend years ago.

People continue anchored in the past and give the same answers they give for years.

 

Have you upgrade to the last version of LOOT? Have you order yours plugings whit LOOT and play the game?

And i say play the game?

Not look the order of the plugings, not look the conflicts, not waste time opening Tes5Edit. SIMPLY PLAY.

Do you have any problem in the game? Are you totally sure the problem is caused by the load order?

Can you demostrate in any way that putting the plugings in other order the problem disapear?

 

I'm bored of get the same answers whitout any fundament or explanation or demostration of the problem.

Please, give me the name and download link. Show me the generated order by LOOT. Show me screenshot of the conficts, screenshot of the game, detailed explanations about the problem and a clear demostration that putting the plugings in the inverse order solve the problem.

 

But one or two examples are not valid. I have TWO exceptions in my Load Order because LOOT not order my plugings in the way i need. If you must make the same and put up to four or five exceptions i not know where is the problem. Maybe you preffer order that FIVE mods in a manual way simply because you not want put that information inside LOOT? Are FIVE exceptions enougth motive for recomend not use LOOT?

[GenioMaestro]

2 hours ago, bandygirl1 said:

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/96374-legacy-of-the-dragonborn-and-sexlab/?do=findComment&comment=2828407

*Continuing conversation from the other thread*

 

No. Changing the LO manually doesn't actually remove the conflict. What it does do, is allow correct sequencing for drag and drop modification of mods with XEdit, which if done correctly, WILL remove those conflicts. That way the user can maintain the changes wanted from both mods ( instead of all of one mods changes which is all that adjusting LO rules is going to get you ) regardless of what might be later added to the LO. And as XEdit backs up files, it's simple to revert if needed.

If you are making drag and drop with Tes5Edit you are making a patch.

The only diference about store the patch inside the original mod or inside an aditional pluging come when the original mod is updated because you lost the manual patch that you have make. Of course, use an aditional patch require the necesary slot in the load order and everybody know that 250 slots are not enougth and for that we made merge.

 

But the discusion point here is :

2 hours ago, bandygirl1 said:

I'm saying it's not the magic cure-all you proclaim it to be Genio, and that the methods you're denigrating here ABSOLUTELY have their's as well.

Why not? What is the problem? What modifications are misordered when LOOT is used? How many?
Can they be fixed with custom rules?

Why does everyone recommend using a MANUAL order on complex pluging list?

[bandygirl1]

I explained to you the problem.

Loot auto adjusting load order won't do anything if I want to use a few edits from mod A, and a few from mod B ( which is something I for one run into all the time) .

 

Want to know what will? Like I said, sequencing the mods and drag and drop to adjust.

 

Of course it's creating a patch. I never alluded that it wasn't.  What I will say on that subject though, is I can do it in 5 minutes or less on average.

 

I have no idea where you came up with " weeks " to make a patch.

[Tiress]

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Spoiler

First, noboby can prohibit the things that you make with your game and your mods in your house.

Everybody is totally free to make every they want. If they want use mods that collide they can. If want make a patch for compatilize them and publish it, perfectly. If not publish it their motives have.

We can not discuse about it.

 

The discusion point is WHY use incompatilble mods that need a patch that not exist.

Simply because you want? Simply for have the gratification of see two incompatible mods working joined?

Do you know that, sometimes, you can need weeks for make the patch? Do you have that free time?

Do you have enougth knowledge for create the patch and the necesary time for verify it?

Then, go for it. Noboby can prohibit you make that.

 

The second point is WHAT solve the patch and that, sometimes, depend of the personal point of each person.

If the problem is a simply visual glich, maybe, you can not support it and you must make a patch.

If the problem is a simply fail in some aditional functionallity, maybe, you can't control yourself for not use it.

If the problem affect the main functionality of the mod and is imposible use it whitout a patch, maybe, the best option is drop one of the mods and wait for a patch from the developer.

But if you have the time and the knowledge, then, go for it. Noboby can prohibit you make that.

 

Of course, a lot of times the patch is made i 5 seconds simply moving one record with Tes5Edit.

But i'm totally sure you need, at least, 5 MINUTES for locate the problem and the record while others times you can need hours or days, simply for locate the problem, and noboby can know how many time for solve it.

Do you want make that? Go for it.

 

Good, thank you for not telling me I MUST do something.

Quote

Why not? Where are your detailed explanations of the problems caused by LOOT?

If you not know how works is because you have not read the public documentation.

If the documentation is not enougth you can read the public source code.

Where did you get that LOOT causes problems? Because it wasn't from me.

I know what LOOT does to sort plugins, but that doesn't change a thing. Without knowing what's inside those plugins LOOT sorts, how am I supposed to know, whether they are sorted correctly? Given how it approaches overlaps - If two plugins overlap, and one overrides more records than the other, then the rule is to load the plugin that overrides fewer records after the other plugin. - this might even give the opposite result than what I want.

Quote

Maybe you are looking the conflicts before have a problem in the game?

Maybe you are one of that persons that think you must correct and solve every conflict?

Do you know that 90% of the conflict must be here and 99% of the rest not have any influence in the game?

Oh yes, I'm one of those that check conflicts before they even start the game.

I'm not solving all conflicts, but I sure go through all of them.

Quote

Are you totally sure? This is my actual pluging list after LOOT correct my alphabetical list.

  Reveal hidden contents

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm
Falskaar.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
ApachiiHairFemales.esm
BeeingFemale.esm
SMSkyrim.esp
SexLab.esm
SexLabAroused.esm
ZaZAnimationPack.esm
MiasLair.esp
Campfire.esm
CreatureFramework.esm
Devious Devices - Assets.esm
Devious Devices - Integration.esm
Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
EagleEyePerk.esm
Heretical Resources.esm
moonpath.esm
UndergroundBathhouse.esm
ITortureFramework.esm
PSQ PlayerSuccubusQuest.esm
Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
SexLab - Sexual Fame [SLSF].esm
Skyrim - Utility Mod.esm
paradise_halls.esm
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp
Cutting Room Floor.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
360WalkandRunPlus-RunBackwardSpeedAdjust.esp
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
PredatorsLostTribesV1.esp
LegacyoftheDragonborn.esp
DepthsOfSkyrim.esp
3DNPC.esp
AHZmoreHUD.esp
AI Package Manager.esp
AMatterOfTime.esp
UIExtensions.esp
AddItemMenu2.esp
AllNudePlay.esp
WARZONES - Civil Unrest.esp
paradise_halls_SLExtension.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp
NerniesCityandVillageExpansion.esp
Shout Like a Virgin.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp
OBIS.esp
SexLab_Solutions.esp
SkyrimURWL.esp
RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp
SexyBanditCaptives.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp
SexLab_DibellaCult.esp
ELFX - Weathers.esp
SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp
Cidhna Mine Expanded.esp
MrissiTailOfTroubles.esp
DFB - Random Encounters.esp
Immersive Wenches.esp
KS Hairdo's.esp
Enemy Variations V4 - NPCs.esp
NPCs Protected and Uncapped.esp
The Brotherhood of Old.esp
AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
AnubAnimObj.esp
Apropos.esp
BeeingFemaleBasicAddOn.esp
BodySlotsMCM.esp
Circular_Reference.esp
SkyUI.esp
Customizable Camera.esp
DD_Helpers.esp
DW.esp
Deadly Wenches.esp
DisableHDREffects_MCM.esp
Elephant'sScriptLatencyTester.esp
FNIS.esp
FNISSexyMove.esp
FWB_SexLabDisparity.esp
FalskaarRNDPatch.esp
Forgotten Wenches.esp
GY_NPC_Enemy_Rep_DG.esp
HDT Female Hairstyles.esp
HDTTailsEquipable.esp
Hair Physics Project.esp
HelmetToggle2.02b.esp
Immersive Arousal.esp
InigoPerkPointGiver.esp
Japanese.esp
JaxonzZoom.esp
JobsofSkyrim.esp
Judgment Wenches.esp
KS Hairdos - HDT.esp
KomAnimObjects.esp
KomAnimScaler.esp
LootandDegradation.esp
Memory_Test.esp
MilkModNEW.esp
MilkModNEW CF.esp
MilkModNEW HF.esp
MilkModNEW Sanbox.esp
MilkModNEW ZaZ Sanbox.esp
Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp
MoreNastyCritters.esp
NibblesAnimObjects.esp
OBISDB.esp
OpenFaceGuardHelmets.esp
PermaZONESLegendaryBalanced.esp
Purewaters.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuMorphsCBBE.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
Remodeled Armor - Underwear.esp
Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dawnguard.esp
Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dragonborn.esp
RutahTattooPack.esp
SAP.esp
SC07SexLabRandomAttack.esp
SLA Monitor Widget.esp
SLALAnimObj.esp
SLALAnimObjBillyy.esp
SLAL_AnimationsByLeito.esp
SLAL_K4Anims.esp
SLAL_ProxyAnimObjects.esp
SLAnimLoader.esp
SLSO.esp
SMSkyrim - Compressed.esp
SOS - B3lisario UNP Addon.esp
SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp
SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp
SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp
SOSRaceMenu.esp
ScriptTest.esp
SexLab Aroused Creatures.esp
SexLab Cumshot.esp
SexLab TDF Aggressive Prostitution.esp
SexLabCumRegenerator.esp
SexLabMassMatchMaker.esp
SexLabSquirtR.esp
SexLabTools.esp
SexlabAmmoUnequip.esp
Size Does Matter.esp
SlaveTats.esp
SlaveTatsEventsBridge.esp
SlaveTatsMagicManager.esp
TheCoenaculiCBBE.esp
UnreadBooksGlow.esp
Weapons & Armor_TrueWeaponsLvlLists.esp
WetFunction.esp
WetandCold.esp
XPMSE.esp
aleGetNaked.esp
animal_mansion.esp
EMCompViljaSkyrim.esp
Milk Addict.esp
Inconsequential NPCs.esp
Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp
ZIA_Complete Pack_V4.esp
SkyrimUnhinged.esp
Dwarfsphere.esp
Immersive Encounters.esp
SMIM-Merged-All.esp
Slaverun_Reloaded.esp
Deviously Cursed Loot.esp
RDO - iAFT Patch.esp
SkyFalls DB + FS Small Waterfalls.esp
The Manipulator.esp
dc-untamed-000.esp
SexLab Beastess.esp
SexLabSkoomaWhore.esp
moonpath_questdata.esp
PAH_HomeSweetHome.esp
PAH_AndYouGetASlave.esp
Skyrim Shadow Striping Fix.esp
Immersive Patrols II.esp
MistySkye.esp
Frostfall.esp
SofiaFollower.esp
SexLab-AmorousAdventures.esp
DeviousFollowers.esp
Hateful Wenches.esp
Devious Cidhna.esp
MilkMod_MilkPumpsBasic.esp
Recorder Follower Base.esp
Deviously Enslaved.esp
More Interesting Loot for Skyrim.esp
Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
SOS - Shop.esp
Blacksmithforge water fix DB.esp
Blacksmithforge water fix Vanilla.esp
Sassy.esp
SMSkyrim - 3DNPC Patch.esp
DragonPriestMasks.esp
SexLab Eager NPCs.esp
Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp
ESFCompanions.esp
Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer.esp
Beastess Vampire.esp
Better Vampires.esp
Blacksmithforge water fix DG.esp
Companions No Werewolf Option.esp
Cynthia20190627.esp
EtR_HearthfireDungeonAddon.esp
ZIA_Daedric Pack_V4.esp
LoversComfort.esp
pahe_lakeview_manor_cell.esp
LunariWarriors.esp
Naked Dungeons.esp
slavers_spellbook.esp
DanarielStormbow.esp
VRJessi.esp
Devious Devices - Equip.esp
ELFX - Moonpath.esp
Giada.esp
HentaiCreatures.esp
Imaginator BETA.esp
Liz Follower.esp
Milker Movil Armor.esp
PetCollar.esp
RDO - USLEEP Patch.esp
SL Deadly Drain.esp
SLPleasure.esp
SLSW Addicted.esp
SMSkyrim - Encounters.esp
SOS - Revealing Armors.esp
SOS_Merge.esp
SexLab_DibellaCult_Sisters.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills Falskaar.esp
TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
ZIA_Ancient Pack_V4.esp
beinz_plugin.esp
mintylightningmod.esp
multi_cloak.esp
pahe-DeviousDevices-addon-DDx-patch.esp
pahe-tdf-patch.esp
paradise_halls_farengars_study.esp
skyrimespawn.esp
ub_npc_rework.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
SMSkyrim - Alternate Start + General Patch.esp
ELFXEnhancer.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
 

Can you say me if the position of my plugings is correct and WHAT problems going to cause in my game?

No, I can not, neither can LOOT, it's just a text list.

Quote

And what is the diference? Why the average players can use LOOT while the advanced players can not use it?

Why couldn't they? What I didn't agree with was your "enforcement" of using LOOT, but a few lines above you are basically saying people are free to do what they want with their time so now I'm ok with it.  

Quote

Maybe you want talk about the complexity of the mod list and that can depend of the user level.

Here you can have some point of true because when we use specific combinations of mods LOOT can have some problems for order it correctly. But you know what mods are?

Do I have to? I believe the theory itself is sufficient enough for this.

I'm starting to dislike the term "correct" in this case. It makes it sound like there is only one way of having a correct LO which isn't necessarily true.

Quote

Seems that we are talking, one more time, about the ethernal problem of Skyrim.

People continue thinking that have CTD in Skyrim is totally normal, as we are in 2012-2013.

Seems that NMM, in 2019, have the same problem that have in the past years.

Seems that LOOT order the mods in a caotic way like happend years ago.

People continue anchored in the past and give the same answers they give for years.

No, no, no. No one is saying that. There are just several approaches to sorting plugins and you claim one of them to be the best. I didn't agree with that because it's definitelly not best for me and here we are..

Quote

Have you upgrade to the last version of LOOT? Have you order yours plugings whit LOOT and play the game?

And i say play the game?

Not look the order of the plugings, not look the conflicts, not waste time opening Tes5Edit. SIMPLY PLAY.

I have tha last version of LOOT and no, I haven't played much of the game. But I did play a lot of xEdit!

Quote

Do you have any problem in the game? Are you totally sure the problem is caused by the load order?

Can you demostrate in any way that putting the plugings in other order the problem disapear?

If I had a problem in the game, I wouldn't blame the LO because my LO is sorted the way I need and properly patched. One of the downsides is, I can not demonstrate the problem disappearance to you as I haven't encountered it since the time I started doing it manually, BUT, I will continue on this lower..

Quote

I'm bored of get the same answers whitout any fundament or explanation or demostration of the problem.

Please, give me the name and download link. Show me the generated order by LOOT. Show me screenshot of the conficts, screenshot of the game, detailed explanations about the problem and a clear demostration that putting the plugings in the inverse order solve the problem.

Come on now, I'm being patient too, don't start with this now..

Any adjustment you have to do manually, like adding metadata to LOOT, because it didn't sort one or two plugins correctly, can serve as an example. That's why you have to set special rules for it after all, because otherwise it might not work the way you want or the way it's supposed to.

Quote

But one or two examples are not valid. I have TWO exceptions in my Load Order because LOOT not order my plugings in the way i need. If you must make the same and put up to four or five exceptions i not know where is the problem. Maybe you preffer order that FIVE mods in a manual way simply because you not want put that information inside LOOT? Are FIVE exceptions enougth motive for recomend not use LOOT?

You got me, I'm lazy so I don't wanna bother with adding exceptions to LOOT. It's easier for me to just move the plugins where I need them.

 

And no, not even ten exceptions would be enough for me not to recommend LOOT. I'm not against LOOT. I just don't agree with this.. dogma of LOOT being the best, all seing, all knowing tool with just a few little limits, that everyone is expected to use because other ways of sorting plugins are just, if not incorrect, inferior. I'm exaggerating a bit here, but hopefully it delivers the message.

 

LOOT serves you great and I'm glad for that, it's a usefull tool, nobody is saying otherwise, but it just doesn't cover my needs and I sure am not alone in that. I'm more inclined to The Method by Elminster:

 

https://gist.github.com/CovenantTurtle/9992289653e91455a06753ef6275590a

 

[GenioMaestro]

Excuse me but I need some things explained to me because I don't quite understand them.

 

Why do you look at conflicts before playing? Why are you making patching? What are the problems that fix those patches? What mods are you using that are so problematic that you need make manual patches to make it works correctly?

I ask because I don't need to do any of that.
For years I have ordered my plugings with LOOT and, practically, I never had a problem in the game.
I never look at conflicts with Tes5Edit until I have a problem in the game. I don't need to patch anything.

 

Every week I download new mods, install it and play them because Vortex runs LOOT automatically.
I don't care where the ESP is placed or the conflicts it may have because 99% of the time everything works perfectly, both the new mod and the old ones.

 

Why i not have any problem and i not need make any special operation?
Maybe is because i use a magical tool called LOOT?
Maybe is because i use a special mod list?

[bandygirl1]

*shakes head*

Will the game run if you use loot to sort plugins, never do anything else, and just start playing? Most likely yes. Probably 99% of the time.

Will you have the changes you actually want in game that way? No.

You get the version of any records that are contained in a lower loaded plugin everytime.

[Tiress]

Quote

Why do you look at conflicts before playing? Why are you making patching? What are the problems that fix those patches? What mods are you using that are so problematic that you need make manual patches to make it works correctly?

Because if I don't, the game might not behave the way I want. I want to prevent problems rather than solving them on the go. I'm making patches to make two or more mods compatible. Example:

 

Enhanced Skyrim Factions - The Companions Guild

Bijin Warmaidens

 

These two are editing same NPC records. One of them edits fighting capabilities of NPCs (ESF), the other just their appearance (Bijin)

 

Without a patch, only one will win. I'll either get fighting capabilities or appearance and that's something that just won't do for me so I simply patch them to get both.

2 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

I ask because I don't need to do any of that.
For years I have ordered my plugings with LOOT and, practically, I never had a problem in the game.
I never look at conflicts with Tes5Edit until I have a problem in the game. I don't need to patch anything.

OR you don't know it yet. You might've encountered a problem without even knowing it.

Quote

Why i not have any problem and i not need make any special operation?
Maybe is because i use a special mod list?

Maybe is because i use a magical tool called LOOT?

I don't know? Though I seriously doubt it's because of LOOT.

[GenioMaestro]

3 hours ago, bandygirl1 said:

Will you have the changes you actually want in game that way? No.

Why not? I have I have all the changes that my mods make.

Of course, the specific records that have conficts inside the esp's have the value that come from the last ESP.
That is a problem? That mean that my mods can NOT works correctly?

Please, explain me where is exactly the problem because I not understand it.

 

Take a look to the conflicts i have in SlaveRun_Reloaded.esp in position 171 of 251:

Spoiler

 

Do you think any of that conflict can cause me a problem whit SlaveRun or whit any other mod?

Do you think I should worry if the WhiterunDragonsreachBasement cell has water or not has water?

Maybe i get less nakedcoment but i can asure you that is not a problem, at least for me.

[GenioMaestro]

31 minutes ago, Tiress said:

Because if I don't, the game might not behave the way I want. I want to prevent problems rather than solving them on the go. I'm making patches to make two or more mods compatible. Example:

 

Enhanced Skyrim Factions - The Companions Guild

Bijin Warmaidens

 

These two are editing same NPC records. One of them edits fighting capabilities of NPCs (ESF), the other just their appearance (Bijin)

 

Without a patch, only one will win. I'll either get fighting capabilities or appearance and that's something that just won't do for me so I simply patch them to get both.

But you need make that because you are using incompatible mods. The web page of EFS say:

Compatibility
This mod makes a number of changes to the Companions guild, and as such it may not play well with other mods that edit the guild's quests, characters, and locations.

 

Of course, if you put in the same load order EFS + Warmaidens you go to have severe conflicts:

Spoiler

 

The two mods are making changes to the perks, skills and styles of the same actors.

If the creator of the mod not publish the necesary patch you must make your own patch.

Or drop one of the mods or accept the problems and malfunction caused by incompatible mods.

 

That is not a load order problem. No matter how you order the plugins, you will always go to have conflicts.

Sorting the plugins, manually, in reverse way, not solve the conflicts. Only change it.

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

3 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

Why do you look at conflicts before playing?

It's great practice to look under the hood of all mods in xEdit after installing.Take follower mod SweetTits McGee, that mod accidently referenced delphine during creation. You start a new game and you get to lvl 20 and run into Delphine who is borked up because SweetTits is overwriting your replacer mod you have for her. Can be fixed mid play through though i don't like surprises like that. 

 

Personally i always check for errors and sorted masters while i'm in xEdit with new mods. You can easily go into game with new mod, take a look and deem everything is good and still have problems that sometimes would quickly, be made apparent by scrolling through info in xEdit.

 

I'm actually in Genio's camp with all the patches, i think i have 1 xEdit patch and its a specific patch for 2 mods, 3 esp's and 2 mods. I certainly don't hate on the "Patcher's", that's the beauty of modding games, do what you want, if you want Bijins companions to have the their Immersive Weapons, patch it. Aela has Silver Sword in my game. 

 

 

Edit: the best way to sort LO is manually, unless you got 50 mods or something. I haven't used LOOT in a long time, it's a fine program but i like having more control of my LO because functionality of working with LO,a lot, in CK, in xEdit, with manually sorted LO is important to me with my full LO, without accounting for merged mods, I have always around 230-240ish active plugins, there is very small amount of LO needed, only a few cases were this mod needs to be after this mod, very easy stuff to get right. I like to joke that load orders adjusted with LOOT(Great Program) looks like "a program tried to swallow a LO full, and puked it up" once again, LOOT is an amazing program that is great for a lot of users, I used it up until I hit a few hundred plugins. 

[Grey Cloud]

2 hours ago, Tiress said:

Without a patch, only one will win. I'll either get fighting capabilities or appearance and that's something that just won't do for me so I simply patch them to get both.

No. Assuming Bijin is the last to load then you will get the combat from the other mod and the appearance from Bijin, surely?

 

1 hour ago, Heroine of the Night said:

Take follower mod SweetTits McGee, that mod accidently referenced delphine during creation. You start a new game and you get to lvl 20 and run into Delphine who is borked up because SweetTits is overwriting your replacer mod you have for her.

That is the result of a badly done mod. It has nothing to do with how LOOT works or doesn't. There is nothing stopping you editing the esp once you discover that Delphine is a mess.

 

How much time do you spend checking and altering things that don't need to be checked or altered? "If it isn't broke, then don't fix it".

 

2 hours ago, bandygirl1 said:

Will you have the changes you actually want in game that way?

That is a different issue. You cannot expect LOOT, or any other tool, to know what your particular tastes and requirements are.

 

 

Oh, and if anyone wants to see a mod which 'conflicts' with lots of other mods, check out USLEEP.

[Tiress]

31 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

No. Assuming Bijin is the last to load then you will get the combat from the other mod and the appearance from Bijin, surely?

You will not. They both edit the same record. It doesn't matter if they edit different parts of the same record, only the last one loaded will be used. There are very few exceptions to this rule.

[Grey Cloud]

30 minutes ago, Tiress said:

You will not. They both edit the same record. It doesn't matter if they edit different parts of the same record, only the last one loaded will be used. There are very few exceptions to this rule.

I use Enemy Plus (EP) which utilises 'templates' of  certain vanilla characters. Those vanilla characters are altered by various of my NPC overhauls. In the game the EP characters have the face of whichever NPC overhaul is doing that character and I have the functionality of the EP esp (stats, scripts, etc) purely from sorting with LOOT.

Similarly with Animal Mansion Plus which also utilises templates except that I have to set a metadata rule for Dames of Skyrim. DoS is the only mod LOOT has ever had a problem in the 3 or 4 years I have used it.

 

If I have an mod which changes the default tavern wench outfit will, e.g. Saadia have the new outfit and her regular face or  . . .? If I edit that outfit to have, say, a 50 light armour rating will Saadia be more difficult to kill or will it not apply.

 

EDIT:

Another example. You install an NPC overhaul which changes 100 females. You install another which changes 50 females. The second mod loads after the first. What happens to the extra 50 NPCs?

When the game (not LOOT) loads a mod it loads it. A 'conflicting' mod which loads after will just overwrite any 'conflicting' records/assets. It will not touch any records/assets that are not mentioned in the second mod's esp.

[Tiress]

2 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

But you need make that because you are using incompatible mods. The web page of EFS say:

Compatibility
This mod makes a number of changes to the Companions guild, and as such it may not play well with other mods that edit the guild's quests, characters, and locations.

 

Of course, if you put in the same load order EFS + Warmaidens you go to have severe conflicts:

But the mod page doesn't have to state that. How else will you know it then unless you take a look in xEdit? LOOT won't tell you that.

Quote

Sorting the plugins, manually, in reverse way, not solve the conflicts. Only change it.

And that is a great benefit.

 

LOOT will probably sort it in a way where the mod with less overrides ends up loaded last and if it needs patching it means only more work for me because I'd have to patch all those records from the mod that has more overrides.

OR I could reverse their order and that would leave me with less overrides to deal with.

[Heroine HoneyCrotch]

1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said:

That is the result of a badly done mod. It has nothing to do with how LOOT

I never said that had anything to do with LOOT? That was a quick fire example of why checking mods in xEdit can be good thing, as i typed, you can go into game and see mod working good and not see the problems is could create and think mod is fine. LOOT is fine, just not for me. The topic being discussed was why check mods in xEdit. 

 

1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said:

How much time do you spend checking and altering things

seconds 

[Grey Cloud]

5 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

I never said that had anything to do with LOOT?

 

5 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

The topic being discussed was why check mods in xEdit. 

The thread title is about load order.

 

6 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

That was a quick fire example of why checking mods in xEdit can be good thing

No one is saying it isn't. What Genio and I are saying is that checking them before you know that you have a problem is a waste of time.

 

6 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

seconds 

For one esp, perhaps. Or perhaps you don't change your mods that often. Do you think you could do USLEEP in seconds?

 

And if you are going to quote then give the whole sentence. 

1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said:

How much time do you spend checking and altering things that don't need to be checked or altered?

You missed out the last part because you cannot answer it.

[Tiress]

32 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I use Enemy Plus (EP) which utilises 'templates' of  certain vanilla characters. Those vanilla characters are altered by various of my NPC overhauls. In the game the EP characters have the face of whichever NPC overhaul is doing that character and I have the functionality of the EP esp (stats, scripts, etc) purely from sorting with LOOT.

Similarly with Animal Mansion Plus which also utilises templates except that I have to set a metadata rule for Dames of Skyrim. DoS is the only mod LOOT has ever had a problem in the 3 or 4 years I have used it.

 

If I have an mod which changes the default tavern wench outfit will, e.g. Saadia have the new outfit and her regular face or  . . .? If I edit that outfit to have, say, a 50 light armour rating will Saadia be more difficult to kill or will it not apply.

EP doesn't edit vanilla characters so it must be using some other way to do what you describe.

 

As for your question, outfits and actors have each their own records. In this example, unless the last loaded NPC overhaul changes what outfit Saadia uses, her actor record will still have the same reference to the same outfit record. If you made changes to that record, they will be applied. This way you'd get Saadia with a new face and an outfit with more armor rating. The armor wouldn't be unique to Saadia though, it would apply to all actors using the same outfit.

[Tiress]

36 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

EDIT:

Another example. You install an NPC overhaul which changes 100 females. You install another which changes 50 females. The second mod loads after the first. What happens to the extra 50 NPCs?

When the game (not LOOT) loads a mod it loads it. A 'conflicting' mod which loads after will just overwrite any 'conflicting' records/assets. It will not touch any records/assets that are not mentioned in the second mod's esp.

If two mods are editing the same record, only one of them will win the conflict. Perks, combat style, skills, stats, appearance, race, voice.. all that is in an actor record so I stand by what I said earlier.

[Grey Cloud]

Just now, Tiress said:

EP doesn't edit vanilla characters so it must be using some other way to do what you describe.

It uses templates like I said. The EP NPC which shows up in my game is visually identical to my overhaul NPC, i.e. she is not vanilla.

EP is #85 in my batting order. The NPC overhauls start at #148. Courtesy of LOOT.

[Tiress]

Just now, Grey Cloud said:

It uses templates like I said. The EP NPC which shows up in my game is visually identical to my overhaul NPC, i.e. she is not vanilla.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

EP is #85 in my batting order. The NPC overhauls start at #148. Courtesy of LOOT.

Ah, I see. Clever.

[Grey Cloud]

6 minutes ago, Tiress said:

If two mods are editing the same record, only one of them will win the conflict. Perks, combat style, skills, stats, appearance, race, voice.. all that is in an actor record so I stand by what I said earlier.

What you said earlier was that you'd get either or. I am saying that you would get Bijin face and the combat from the other mod if Bijin loads after the other mod. (I'm assuming Bijin doesn't touch combat stuff).

 

19 minutes ago, Tiress said:

As for your question, outfits and actors have each their own records.

This is partly my point - it is the records which get overwritten not the whole esp.

[Tiress]

Just now, Grey Cloud said:

What you said earlier was that you'd get either or. I am saying that you would get Bijin face and the combat from the other mod if Bijin loads after the other mod. (I'm assuming Bijin doesn't touch combat stuff).

Ah, poor choice of words perhaps. What I meant with "fighting capabilities" were things like perks, stats, combat style and skills. They are part of actor record so even though Bijin doesn't touch it, it blocks the actor edits from ESF.

[GenioMaestro]

It seems that after eight years playing and modding Skyrim, many people still use bad modding practices.
And they recommend their bad practices and bad habits to other users.

Forgive me but you are doing many things wrong. The first is to use incompatible mods.
If a mod has serious conflicts with another mod that directly affects the correct functionality of one of the mods, you must report it. If you want to make a patch to make them compatible, do it the right way.
Create an additional ESP with all the necessary records and, if you want to publish it, much better.

Stop doing barbarities like:
Adjust the order of the plugs MANUALLY to save work and copy fewer records.
Modify the ESP originals of the mods so that they are compatible with what you want.
Tell other users that you can't use LOOT because it ruins your game.
Or that it is much better order the plugins by hand.

 

 

The best way to order the plugs is to use LOOT because it has been specifically programmed to do it.
Has been updated and modified for years to provide us with the best possible load order.
All good guides recommend use LOOT every time the load order is modified.
Vortex has LOOT integrated and is automatically executed every time a mod is added.

 

If you cannot use LOOT only can be because you are doing something wrong.
If the load order generated by LOOT does not work for you, stop blaming LOOT.

Ask yourself why LOOT works for other users but not for you. Request help if necessary.