Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Corsayr]

1 hour ago, LazyBoot said:

If I recall, to stop that you'll need to either equip the item via script, or use a custom item that sets the "DisableLockManipulation" property to true.

I don't think it would be necessary to do that. From the Followers perspective, all that matters is that you wear them. As long as you voluntarily put them on there is little reason to prevent you from voluntarily taking them off. Because if you don't put them on, or if you take them off when you aren't supposed to, there will be consequences. Those consequences are already in the mod. 

[xboronx]

After about a year long break from Skyrim i started playing it again. Your mod is great.

When i tried it for the first time yesterday i misunderstood some functions probably, so i'll ask some questions about a couple of the settings and mechanics:

 

1. Is there any autogreet feature in where the follower approaches you directly or are you supposed to talk to your follower?

I just let debts accumulate, and suddenly when i reached the enslavement treshhold i lost all my money and went down from 10 to 1 willpower 0 resistence immediately. This makes me thinking that i misunderstood and should have talked to the follower myself.

 

2. Hours till next bill setting: Default it is set to 9 hours, does the game add fractions then to the debt? Like if i have 100 debt per day and 10% interested does it add 9/24 x 100 and 9/24 x 10% interest every check then? I am thinking about turning it simply to daily checks, but you probably had a reasoning for making it check every 9 hours default.

 

3. Could you increase the maximum amounts for enslavement debt, price for freedom and failure of enslavement? This would suit my personal playstyle a lot, then i can play lending some money from my follower via your sweet dice gambling game, use this for example to buy a house which costs a few thousand to hundred thousand septims via the landlord mod and if i misinvest because i get robbed via defeat or the like then your mod starts to kick in. Also i love having the follower salary rather low but if i let accumulate too much debt then the interest starts to get out of control.

 

Thanks in advance for your answers.

[Reesewow]

7 hours ago, Corsayr said:

I don't think it would be necessary to do that. From the Followers perspective, all that matters is that you wear them. As long as you voluntarily put them on there is little reason to prevent you from voluntarily taking them off. Because if you don't put them on, or if you take them off when you aren't supposed to, there will be consequences. Those consequences are already in the mod. 

Yep, I agree.  The DDs are already "voluntary" in a way because the player has to actually put them on themselves and the follower checks you are wearing them periodically.  The fact they aren't necessarily locked makes the act even more submissive, and also lets you risk the follower's anger if you really want to for a moment (say removing the gag to talk to a bunch of quest NPCs in a row without gag talk).

 

With a DD-equipping mod installed the follower will have plenty of opportunity to get extra cash from removing gear anyways.

[Corsayr]

48 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Yep, I agree.  The DDs are already "voluntary" in a way because the player has to actually put them on themselves and the follower checks you are wearing them periodically.  The fact they aren't necessarily locked makes the act even more submissive, and also lets you risk the follower's anger if you really want to for a moment (say removing the gag to talk to a bunch of quest NPCs in a row without gag talk).

 

With a DD-equipping mod installed the follower will have plenty of opportunity to get extra cash from removing gear anyways.

To my way of thinking they might even be a little pleased to see there is still some defiance in you. Means you might actually boot strap yourself out of this. The reason they treat you badly at low will power is because it starts to look like you really are a bum, and they are never going to get paid. ?

[saintdie]

I've been playing around with this the last couple of days, and overall I've enjoyed it. I do have a suggestion though. When my character was in the depths of a cave (in the Bruma mod), my character's follower got a bit upset at a late payment and took her weapon (and torch). This was cool, it left the character relatively helpless as I play with a mod that lowers carrying weight and also Loot & Degradation, so I usually only have 1 or 2 weapons on my character. Paid the guy off, but I couldn't get the weapon back, which was annoying. He didn't even use it to protect himself from trolls. So my suggestion is this: provide a way to get your gear back. It could be that your character has to beg, increase her debt, allow him to rename you, do favors, etc. There's lots of options. It just strikes me as an opportunity for the character, suddenly bereft of armament to be able to beg for its return.

[valcon767]

10 hours ago, xboronx said:

1. Is there any autogreet feature in where the follower approaches you directly or are you supposed to talk to your follower?

 

2. Hours till next bill setting: Default it is set to 9 hours, does the game add fractions then to the debt? Like if i have 100 debt per day and 10% interested does it add 9/24 x 100 and 9/24 x 10% interest every check then? I am thinking about turning it simply to daily checks, but you probably had a reasoning for making it check every 9 hours default.

 

3. Could you increase the maximum amounts for enslavement debt, price for freedom and failure of enslavement? This would suit my personal playstyle a lot, then i can play lending some money from my follower via your sweet dice gambling game, use this for example to buy a house which costs a few thousand to hundred thousand septims via the landlord mod and if i misinvest because i get robbed via defeat or the like then your mod starts to kick in. Also i love having the follower salary rather low but if i let accumulate too much debt then the interest starts to get out of control.

 

Thanks in advance for your answers.

ok another player's perspective on these points (yes i have been using this for a while now)

 

1 - you have to talk to your follower (you have to start the conversation).  this is actually done on purpose (as far as i know) so that if you are lazy it will catch you 

     out and you will end up in more trouble.

 

2 - as for the reasoning for the time of the checks i have no clue. as for the amount of debt added it does calculate it correctly (as far as i have seen) as in it adds

     the correct amount of debt. i cannot swear it is exactly 9/24 of the daily rate, but from what i have seen it should be (what i see is about 1/3 of the daily rate

     plus the interest getting added per check).  my guess (and it is just a guess) as to the reasoning is it gives more chances for the player to "mess up" which

     in turn gives more chances for the player to suffer consequences.

 

3 - i personally found the range quite generous myself, but every player is different.  no clue if he will increase the maximum limits on those.

 

[Lozeak]

9 hours ago, saintdie said:

I've been playing around with this the last couple of days, and overall I've enjoyed it. I do have a suggestion though. When my character was in the depths of a cave (in the Bruma mod), my character's follower got a bit upset at a late payment and took her weapon (and torch). This was cool, it left the character relatively helpless as I play with a mod that lowers carrying weight and also Loot & Degradation, so I usually only have 1 or 2 weapons on my character. Paid the guy off, but I couldn't get the weapon back, which was annoying. He didn't even use it to protect himself from trolls. So my suggestion is this: provide a way to get your gear back. It could be that your character has to beg, increase her debt, allow him to rename you, do favors, etc. There's lots of options. It just strikes me as an opportunity for the character, suddenly bereft of armament to be able to beg for its return.

 

So I have made it so all your items go to belethor in whiterun (so you can buy em back) - this is was a quick fix so nothing tells you this happens and at somepoint i'm gonna make it more clear/rework where items go.

 

14 hours ago, xboronx said:

After about a year long break from Skyrim i started playing it again. Your mod is great.

When i tried it for the first time yesterday i misunderstood some functions probably, so i'll ask some questions about a couple of the settings and mechanics:

 

1. Is there any autogreet feature in where the follower approaches you directly or are you supposed to talk to your follower?

I just let debts accumulate, and suddenly when i reached the enslavement threshold i lost all my money and went down from 10 to 1 willpower 0 resistance immediately. This makes me thinking that i misunderstood and should have talked to the follower myself.

 

2. Hours till next bill setting: Default it is set to 9 hours, does the game add fractions then to the debt? Like if i have 100 debt per day and 10% interested does it add 9/24 x 100 and 9/24 x 10% interest every check then? I am thinking about turning it simply to daily checks, but you probably had a reasoning for making it check every 9 hours default.

 

3. Could you increase the maximum amounts for enslavement debt, price for freedom and failure of enslavement? This would suit my personal playstyle a lot, then i can play lending some money from my follower via your sweet dice gambling game, use this for example to buy a house which costs a few thousand to hundred thousand septims via the landlord mod and if i misinvest because i get robbed via defeat or the like then your mod starts to kick in. Also i love having the follower salary rather low but if i let accumulate too much debt then the interest starts to get out of control.

 

Thanks in advance for your answers.

 

1. No auto greet for paying your follower. I may add it in the future as optional content but like forcing dialogue and choices every X hours is the kinda content I hate, I'd rather you realise you need to pay your follower via them doing something more fun.

 

2. Interest is only applied to unpayed debt and if you have 100 debt and it update 8 hour later with 100% debt you'd get 33 debt added via interest.

 

3. Sure, shouldn't be hard.... I thought the maxs in the MCM were pretty high already like what kinda max do you want.

 

======================================

 

The next update imo is so important for the mod. It'll let people understand the mod better and let people customise the mod more.

 

Deal system for example will have these settings

DealBaseDebt - Amount of debt each deal will remove

DealBasePrice - Price to buy out of a deal (if at level 3 it'll be 3 times this)
DealBaseDays - Number of days it'll take to reach base price.
DflowDealMulti - How much each day adds to buy out price

 

So you could make a deal that lasts 3 days at 1000 gold with 1 multi for 2000 debt removed

if you wanted to buy out instant it would be 4000 gold or maybe you want impossible to buy out early so you set the multi to 10 so it's 31000 gold to buy out early

 

Or maybe you want 10 days till it's 100 gold with a 10 multi for 1000 debt (what a bargain right)

So it starts 10100 gold and every day it's 1000 less to get out so just need to wait it out but if the deal gets upgraded another set of days are added to it so

 maybe you had above deal with 5 days left but it gets upgraded which mean u need to wait 15 days to get it to 200 gold or pay up 15200 gold now.

 

Or maybe you want it on 500 gold with 0days/Multi for 400 debt to keep it like it was.

 

No idea, how long till I get this update done but it'll be worth it and after that it's all about adding content either for this mod to my next

[Wyrade]

7 hours ago, valcon767 said:

17 hours ago, xboronx said:

3. Could you increase the maximum amounts for enslavement debt, price for freedom and failure of enslavement? This would suit my personal playstyle a lot, then i can play lending some money from my follower via your sweet dice gambling game, use this for example to buy a house which costs a few thousand to hundred thousand septims via the landlord mod and if i misinvest because i get robbed via defeat or the like then your mod starts to kick in. Also i love having the follower salary rather low but if i let accumulate too much debt then the interest starts to get out of control.

3 - i personally found the range quite generous myself, but every player is different.  no clue if he will increase the maximum limits on those.

In such cases you can set any value pretty easily with Cheat Engine (cheatengine.org).

I myself wanted a lower than 1% in DCL for certain chances, so i edited it that way.

[Lostdreamer]

Next request that has occurred whilst playing:

 

Can the various sex scenes where you have sold yourself to your follower etc not be flagged as rape please?

 

I've got a lot of other mods that trigger on rape and wear & tear is a lot higher so it's deliberately very punishing.

 

ETA: have also discovered an 'interesting' interaction with Prison Overhaul Patched. If you are arrested (*) then your collar gets replaced with the POP collar.

...which upsets your follower somewhat if you have promised to wear a collar for them, and leads to a rapid increase in debt, no willpower and your follower enslaving you whilst you are still a prisoner.

This results in lots of prison jail threesomes, and I think at this point POP breaks which leaves Devious Followers in an infinite jailsex loop.

 

 

 

 

(*) Via, for example, Cursed Loots 'public indecency' effects after your follower has taken advantage of you because they have you in a chasity belt...

[Bane Master]

On 4/10/2018 at 7:30 AM, valcon767 said:

Deviously Enchanted Chests https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1405-deviously-enchanted-chests/

it puts the PC into devious device (possible EC+ assaults) but does not provide keys 

Actually DEC does have keys - configurable by type, frequency and whether found on NPCs/Corpses, or Chests or Chests and common containers (Barrels etc.) or all of the above!

[Reesewow]

4 hours ago, Lostdreamer said:

ETA: have also discovered an 'interesting' interaction with Prison Overhaul Patched. If you are arrested (*) then your collar gets replaced with the POP collar.

...which upsets your follower somewhat if you have promised to wear a collar for them, and leads to a rapid increase in debt, no willpower and your follower enslaving you whilst you are still a prisoner.

This results in lots of prison jail threesomes, and I think at this point POP breaks which leaves Devious Followers in an infinite jailsex loop.

You should use the pause mod option in DF's MCM menu while having a conflict like that - it suspends DF and lets you run other scenes without one mod or the other fighting/breaking over control.  If you feel guilty afterwards for getting your follower arrested you could hit the +1000 debt button a few times when you start DF up again. 

 

I imagine a similar issue could happen if you get involved in any of the more popular bondage mods with longish scripted scenes while you have a follower/are under the effect of deals/enslaved.

[Lostdreamer]

3 hours ago, Reesewow said:

You should use the pause mod option in DF's MCM menu while having a conflict like that - it suspends DF and lets you run other scenes without one mod or the other fighting/breaking over control.  If you feel guilty afterwards for getting your follower arrested you could hit the +1000 debt button a few times when you start DF up again. 

 

I imagine a similar issue could happen if you get involved in any of the more popular bondage mods with longish scripted scenes while you have a follower/are under the effect of deals/enslaved.

Turns out this one has a fairly easy fix.

 

Prison Overhaul Patched uses functionality from Devious Devices Equip to control item sets etc. If you add Devious Devices Equip to the mix, you get a 'don't strip items' box in POP.

 

...that said, I hadn't realized that DF's menu/debug had a pause function so that's good to know and I shall try and remember it. Sadly, it's easy to lose track of the finer details of mods until you stumble over them so my apologies for not realizing this earlier.

[xboronx]

23 hours ago, valcon767 said:

ok another player's perspective on these points (yes i have been using this for a while now)

 

1 - you have to talk to your follower (you have to start the conversation).  this is actually done on purpose (as far as i know) so that if you are lazy it will catch you 

     out and you will end up in more trouble.

 

2 - as for the reasoning for the time of the checks i have no clue. as for the amount of debt added it does calculate it correctly (as far as i have seen) as in it adds

     the correct amount of debt. i cannot swear it is exactly 9/24 of the daily rate, but from what i have seen it should be (what i see is about 1/3 of the daily rate

     plus the interest getting added per check).  my guess (and it is just a guess) as to the reasoning is it gives more chances for the player to "mess up" which

     in turn gives more chances for the player to suffer consequences.

 

3 - i personally found the range quite generous myself, but every player is different.  no clue if he will increase the maximum limits on those.

 

Thanks for the tips valcon767.

 

18 hours ago, Lozeak said:

1. No auto greet for paying your follower. I may add it in the future as optional content but like forcing dialogue and choices every X hours is the kinda content I hate, I'd rather you realise you need to pay your follower via them doing something more fun.

 

2. Interest is only applied to unpayed debt and if you have 100 debt and it update 8 hour later with 100% debt you'd get 33 debt added via interest.

 

3. Sure, shouldn't be hard.... I thought the maxs in the MCM were pretty high already like what kinda max do you want.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the answers Lozeak.

 

1.  I played more yesterday, the system works really well. Might just add one or two lines explaining this in the readme in a spoiler, otherwise more people might misunderstand the deals system at their first try.

 

3. If you could just increase enslavement debt, price for freedom and enslavement failure debt maximums x10 to 100k, 200k and 1 million would be perfect.

 

 

I discovered a small bug: After a few deals i got the armbinder deal, and after that i got the wear a collar deal which i couldn't put on because i was already trapped in the armbinder. The follower complains extremly fast and often then, so debt rakes up quickly. Sure this is a mean and efficient way to quickly fully enslave the player, but maybe you could add a check in the code that if the player is too tied up to be able to equip further deal items that the follower puts them on you instead then.

 

 

Really gratious for your mod, it adds so much fun to playing Skyrim and finally makes me use followers. Before i usually played as lone wolf.

 

 

15 hours ago, Wyrade said:

In such cases you can set any value pretty easily with Cheat Engine (cheatengine.org).

I myself wanted a lower than 1% in DCL for certain chances, so i edited it that way.

 

Might try this, thanks for the tip.

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, xboronx said:

3. If you could just increase enslavement debt, price for freedom and enslavement failure debt maximums x10 to 100k, 200k and 1 million would be perfect.

 

 

I discovered a small bug: After a few deals i got the armbinder deal, and after that i got the wear a collar deal which i couldn't put on because i was already trapped in the armbinder. The follower complains extremly fast and often then, so debt rakes up quickly. Sure this is a mean and efficient way to quickly fully enslave the player, but maybe you could add a check in the code that if the player is too tied up to be able to equip further deal items that the follower puts them on you instead then.

Wow... IMO cheat engine might be a better way to go about that - slider maximums like that may make it super annoying for most players to set the values to specific lower amounts.  Trying to specify a small number like 1,500 using a mouse on an MCM slider when the slider runs from 1-100,000 sounds super annoying.  Unless there is a big drive from users for that, but I think your values are much much higher than the average user.

 

On the armbinder deal, you could try to ask your follower to take off the armbinder so you can put on the collar, then put the armbinder back on.

[Lozeak]

 

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

Wow... IMO cheat engine might be a better way to go about that - slider maximums like that may make it super annoying for most players to set the values to specific lower amounts.  Trying to specify a small number like 1,500 using a mouse on an MCM slider when the slider runs from 1-100,000 sounds super annoying.  Unless there is a big drive from users for that, but I think your values are much much higher than the average user.

 

On the armbinder deal, you could try to ask your follower to take off the armbinder so you can put on the collar, then put the armbinder back on.

You can use left or right on the keyboard as long at the intervals have been set right higher maxs are fine. (I did up a few in this update)

[Lozeak]

So this update took a long time and yea I know no new content again but I think you guys may like how the mod works a lot more.

 

So added a lot of help messages to help people understand what is going on.

MCM- Options on a lot of the content ^^. Making so you can customize the game more to your liking or if your using certain mod than make gold hard/easy.

Deal rework/MCM stuff

One of the better things, I like about the option is to can make it so you can't just make a deal and buy out of it if you want with day timer.

Like setting to cost 100 gold to buy out but only after 5 days and if you want to buy out early it's 1000 gold extra a day.

 

Device removal is now at the stage I'm happy with it consumes/needs lives and is effected by willpower and increases per use (rest resets cost). This means, while it's there there can be time you can't use so you could be stuck in devices you used to get free of too easily. More MCM setting for it too.

 

Lives- are now a real thing before they were hard to see and hardly noticeable (you will notice them now ^^) the most major thing is when your follower updates you debt it will remove 1 life.

btw if you don't like the life content you can set it to 100 lives but I think it makes it more fun.

 

Debt concealment - So the only way to see debt if via the MCM and follower dialogue option the notifications when you debt is update are changed but it will be unique for when you exceed Max debt.

 

Adjust the default values 

Enslavement debt - is now know as Max Debt and default is increased to 2000

Interest - default is 50%

 

[valcon767]

ok i will update and play with this one as soon as i get out of the quest stuff i just got stuck in (lol)

 

looks like its gonna be fun, and interesting to figure out settings.  

 

Thanks for the update.   

 

[steelmagpie]

Update looks a lot of fun..  will try it out as quick as I can download it...  Thanks!

[HexBolt8]

I had a question about the requirement to level, before resting 6+ hours can let you recover willpower.  At low level, leveling up is quick and easy, but at higher levels (the time when a player might want a money sink and would install a mod like this one) leveling can be very slow.  So higher level characters might be at real disadvantage.  (I never make skills legendary, so when I've maxed my primary skills I stay at that level a long long time.) 

 

If the purpose of the requirement to level is to prevent the player from benefiting from resting frequently, then how about instead (or as an MCM option) use a lockout period, such as an hour of real time?  Something that doesn't place a slow-leveling character at a big disadvantage. 

[matisaac]

Great mod, defiantly taken my first place from slave-run, it tickels just the right itch for me - "slavery, but not really."

 

On that note, if I may make a suggestion, perhaps you could remove the hard slavery your mod provides (only have the "you're too useless i'll sell you for a quick buck via simple slavery" aspect)

 

Rather move the slavery content you have to just trigger at extremly low willpower levels.  the slavery devious items can be extensions of the deals etc (id also prefer if you could still say no at low will power, and rather have a new dialog option that your follower can take as an opening to do it anyway kinda like "I'm not to sure I should..." ) but that's just me.

 

Basically I view your mod as the PC's path to slavery through stupidity/financial issues/ or my favorite mental scenario - lack of strength(being a squishy weak mage that needs a big Tanky hero to protect her), but not never actual slavery just getting really close.

 

As actual content suggestions, maybe provide your own gag talk effect where the implication is that your follower is doing the talking and have a convosation option for him to speak his mind (which i'm pretty sure can be worked to nice devious effect, thinking purchasing rooms at an Inn for example)

 

At the end of the day, really solid mod keep up the excellent work (so long as you're enjoying it that is.)

[zhuguannan123]

finnnally someone started to do a follower D/S mod in skyrim

[Lozeak]

5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I had a question about the requirement to level, before resting 6+ hours can let you recover willpower.  At low level, leveling up is quick and easy, but at higher levels (the time when a player might want a money sink and would install a mod like this one) leveling can be very slow.  So higher level characters might be at real disadvantage.  (I never make skills legendary, so when I've maxed my primary skills I stay at that level a long long time.) 

 

If the purpose of the requirement to level is to prevent the player from benefiting from resting frequently, then how about instead (or as an MCM option) use a lockout period, such as an hour of real time?  Something that doesn't place a slow-leveling character at a big disadvantage. 

 

If you rest without levelling up you do recover some willpower anyway it's (5-20 Resistance which in the lower end is 1-4, Willpower and on the higher end 0.5-2). Basically, without levelling it's harder to cap out willpower but it is possible to keep out of the low end easily.

 

4 hours ago, matisaac said:

Great mod, defiantly taken my first place from slave-run, it tickels just the right itch for me - "slavery, but not really."

 

On that note, if I may make a suggestion, perhaps you could remove the hard slavery your mod provides (only have the "you're too useless i'll sell you for a quick buck via simple slavery" aspect)

 

Rather move the slavery content you have to just trigger at extremly low willpower levels.  the slavery devious items can be extensions of the deals etc (id also prefer if you could still say no at low will power, and rather have a new dialog option that your follower can take as an opening to do it anyway kinda like "I'm not to sure I should..." ) but that's just me.

 

Basically I view your mod as the PC's path to slavery through stupidity/financial issues/ or my favorite mental scenario - lack of strength(being a squishy weak mage that needs a big Tanky hero to protect her), but not never actual slavery just getting really close.

 

As actual content suggestions, maybe provide your own gag talk effect where the implication is that your follower is doing the talking and have a convosation option for him to speak his mind (which i'm pretty sure can be worked to nice devious effect, thinking purchasing rooms at an Inn for example)

 

At the end of the day, really solid mod keep up the excellent work (so long as you're enjoying it that is.)

 

I am working on a tweak that means you never get enslaved but dig you deeper into the normal system.

2 hours ago, zhuguannan123 said:

finnnally someone started to do a follower D/S mod in skyrim

There are some out there already like cursed loot(sasha is really well done)/submissive lola. That said mine is more of a follower rework to make them more Devious 

[steelmagpie]

7 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

 That said mine is more of a follower rework to make them more Devious 

And who doesn't like a little Deviousness in the favourite follower ...  Great work on new update..  a lot of fun so far and I am liking the slightly new direction it is taking..  Rockin'

[zhuguannan123]

 if i understand correct, so the deal is, my willpower can only be decreased by rape and devices? and if my willpower remains high then the amount of my debt  won't matter? what's about the figure of resistance, what does it do?

[Lozeak]

3 hours ago, zhuguannan123 said:

 if i understand correct, so the deal is, my willpower can only be decreased by rape and devices? and if my willpower remains high then the amount of my debt  won't matter? what's about the figure of resistance, what does it do?

 

So resitance is the health of that willpower when it hits -1 Willpower drops 1 and resistance is refilled (it's max is lower at lower willpower).

 

Being a victim in a sexlab animation does reduce resistance certain devices increase the amount reduced (like it cause take 45 time to lose 5 will with no devices vs 9 times with some devices)

 

There are other things that lower it too some dialogue ect.

 

So if you ignore your debt with high willpower your follower will steal your gold and item, which will do a lot of resistance dmg (can lose 2-4 willpower) of course you could rest and repeat this over and over but you not gonna have many items. Do remember if you get locked into devices you will find it hard/impossible to recover willpower.

 

If your worried about being able to avoid things easily this mod is designed to trick you and catch you out lol, I mean I'm the maker and I still have times where I get so screwed.