Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Clockwinding]

Found a new partial incompatibility  : skyrim wayshrines https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/64201 .

 

when Devious followers is enabled (unchecking the dialogue forcing doesn't change things), the game CTDs when you activate a statue/brasier to teleport (even before the dialogue options pop up, so i think there's something with it...).

Pausing DF lets me activate the thing to teleport without a problem.

 

It's workable as is but i regularly get frustrated when i lose progress (not saving often fml) because i forget this. Not sure i'ts the best place for this but nexus isn't really nsfw friendly.

 

Great mod in any case, keep it up ^-^

[xtremeGoose]

24 minutes ago, Clockwinding said:

when Devious followers is enabled (unchecking the dialogue forcing doesn't change things), the game CTDs when you activate a statue/brasier to teleport (even before the dialogue options pop up, so i think there's something with it...).

Pausing DF lets me activate the thing to teleport without a problem.

So that's what was doing it! I tried switching over to Wayshrines of Old awhile back because SWIFT was exploding and that failed as well. Couldn't track down what was causing the crashes: never thought to check DF.

[Reesewow]

Got a chance to install the new 1.01 version up from 0.97b - just wanted to say thanks for all of the upgrades to the MCM menu options.  My preferred values so far were about 2 or 3x the defaults, so the fact that I can set how much deals and gambling are worth is really nice - now I can more safely have large amounts or debt per day and still have deals be a good (and dangerous) way of covering debt in a pinch. 

 

 

A few super-minor suggestions, I don't consider any of these to be that important but thought I'd mention them anyway since you have been on a tear update wise:

 

- refusal to say "I'm a slut" is a flat 100 debt, perhaps it should scale with one of the MCM options or have its own slider.  Failure to comply with the other deals also seemed to be a small bump in debt, but it does happen constantly while you are breaking the rules so it adds up quick.

 

- it might be good if the "I'm a slut" dialogue results could link into the NPC's regular dialogue, similarly to how DD gag-talk or DCUL's bondage dialogues do.  It can feel a bit odd that you need to re-initiate the conversation (and sometimes get back-to-back "I'm a slut" triggers).

 

[Clockwinding]

Little bugs/quality of life things :

 

-when morphing to werewolf (have not tried vampire lord) and under a bondage/owning deal, the penalties are applied because the transformation unequips the items

-when pause/unpausing the mod with the debug check, the deal timers reset

- (not sure about this one, need to test more) when morphing to werewolf (have not tried vampire lord) and under a deal, the deal timer resets

[Svel]

3 hours ago, Reesewow said:

- it might be good if the "I'm a slut" dialogue results could link into the NPC's regular dialogue, similarly to how DD gag-talk or DCUL's bondage dialogues do.  It can feel a bit odd that you need to re-initiate the conversation (and sometimes get back-to-back "I'm a slut" triggers).

 

I think the back to back triggers of it is hilarious though, its like you keep on trying to talk to the person but your follower isn't having any of that, I'd imagine your character'd just get too flustered to keep trying after only being able to go "i'm a slut" at the person repeatedly. 

[Lozeak]

6 hours ago, Shion11 said:

do i need to wait and see if the mod will recognize the new version or do i need to reinstall it?

Probably best to reinstall, deactivate mod save, activate load.

i think maybe u maybe ok 0.98/0.97 but it's risky.

 

5 hours ago, Clockwinding said:

Found a new partial incompatibility  : skyrim wayshrines https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/64201 .

 

when Devious followers is enabled (unchecking the dialogue forcing doesn't change things), the game CTDs when you activate a statue/brasier to teleport (even before the dialogue options pop up, so i think there's something with it...).

Pausing DF lets me activate the thing to teleport without a problem.

 

It's workable as is but i regularly get frustrated when i lose progress (not saving often fml) because i forget this. Not sure i'ts the best place for this but nexus isn't really nsfw friendly.

 

Great mod in any case, keep it up ^-^

 

Activator might be caused because of the slut deal (was it on at the time) or does it happen all the time?? This is an annoying bug i would like to fix but it's tough.

 

4 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Got a chance to install the new 1.01 version up from 0.97b - just wanted to say thanks for all of the upgrades to the MCM menu options.  My preferred values so far were about 2 or 3x the defaults, so the fact that I can set how much deals and gambling are worth is really nice - now I can more safely have large amounts or debt per day and still have deals be a good (and dangerous) way of covering debt in a pinch. 

 

 

A few super-minor suggestions, I don't consider any of these to be that important but thought I'd mention them anyway since you have been on a tear update wise:

 

- refusal to say "I'm a slut" is a flat 100 debt, perhaps it should scale with one of the MCM options or have its own slider.  Failure to comply with the other deals also seemed to be a small bump in debt, but it does happen constantly while you are breaking the rules so it adds up quick.

 

- it might be good if the "I'm a slut" dialogue results could link into the NPC's regular dialogue, similarly to how DD gag-talk or DCUL's bondage dialogues do.  It can feel a bit odd that you need to re-initiate the conversation (and sometimes get back-to-back "I'm a slut" triggers).

 

 

I'll scale debt punishment to something OR make a slider for it.

 

3 hours ago, Clockwinding said:

Little bugs/quality of life things :

 

-when morphing to werewolf (have not tried vampire lord) and under a bondage/owning deal, the penalties are applied because the transformation unequips the items

-when pause/unpausing the mod with the debug check, the deal timers reset

- (not sure about this one, need to test more) when morphing to werewolf (have not tried vampire lord) and under a deal, the deal timer resets

Yea, never really thought of werewolf/vamp lord compatibility (i'll look into it)

 

23 minutes ago, Svel said:

I think the back to back triggers of it is hilarious though, its like you keep on trying to talk to the person but your follower isn't having any of that, I'd imagine your character'd just get too flustered to keep trying after only being able to go "i'm a slut" at the person repeatedly. 

I like it too but it's like super weird, It "should" only activate 1/5 times maybe less but sometimes it'll spam the hell out of you/other times it'll never activate (I may fix it but I do like it's randomness)

 

================================

 

So discovered that you can inject CK stuff into other masters ...... meaning I can inject my Willpower global into Update.esm for use in other mods

 

What this means....

 

A mod could lower it to there event....

A mod could use it to trigger there events.....

A mod could use to detect if Devious Followers is running.

 

I will write more on it soon.

 

Been using the mod and ..... wooo the device removal is sooooo much better now cause cost climbs per removal, I'll suffer with the items at times because I can't afford it. I really hated getting trapped in a device and panicking for it to be like o yea just take it off for me. That said, I installed a lot of mods and got a ton of script lag soooo I had to quit best thing with this mod the checks are done via the game engine not papyrus so I think it should script lag anything (i do wonder if Skyrim 64bit would fix this problem.)

[Reesewow]

47 minutes ago, Svel said:

I think the back to back triggers of it is hilarious though, its like you keep on trying to talk to the person but your follower isn't having any of that, I'd imagine your character'd just get too flustered to keep trying after only being able to go "i'm a slut" at the person repeatedly. 

Yep, that's my headcannon as well for why it can happen currently, the thought is more for rare mini-conflicts like force-greets from mods that might trigger the "I'm a slut" dialogue and then drop while the player doesn't have full control.  If I was doing something fancy like a detailed quest mod I'd probably make sure not to accept that deal tho - and I don't know if force-greets could even trigger the deal so it may be a non-issue.

 

Quote

I like it too but it's like super weird, It "should" only activate 1/5 times maybe less but sometimes it'll spam the hell out of you/other times it'll never activate (I may fix it but I do like it's randomness)

Yea, was *testing* the deal by spamming two npcs back and forth and 1/5 sounds about right - for such a *normally* short event I think it is fine as is.  And if you are naked and bound.... well too bad for you, shouldn't have taken all those deals.

 

Quote

So discovered that you can inject CK stuff into other masters ...... meaning I can inject my Willpower global into Update.esm for use in other mods 

 

What this means....

 

A mod could lower it to there event....

A mod could use it to trigger there events.....

A mod could use to detect if Devious Followers is running.

I smell companion mods!  Exciting stuff.

[Lozeak]

50 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

I smell companion mods!  Exciting stuff.

 

Sooooo, what it really means is that I do not need a framework/willpower controller for my mod to interact with each other. It also mean other mod won't need Devious Followers as a requirement if they want to use/alter willpower.

 

I 100% want to use the Willpower system I created in Devious follower because honestly it falls and rises depending on your escape method of Devices so 100% you can control how difficult is too control. Want, the game to be harsh to you make it almost impossible to find key (Followers can remove the game disabling items but not all) ect.

 

Why not expand things in Devious followers..... well if i change things in town or vanilla dialogue (Mod incompatibles) if I want to use ZaZ (some people can't use Devious followers). 

 

So the next mod I use will use the Willpower in Devious Follower but also function independently without it (aka use the same sleep/sexlab victim scripts with some syncing done so it doesn't double dip your willpower).

 

Short way of putting this method will allow my mods to effect each other without needing each other. Also if any other modder wanted to use the Willpower they can easily (doubt anyone will though until my mods are more extensive than just followers)

[valcon767]

3 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Yep, that's my headcannon as well for why it can happen currently, the thought is more for rare mini-conflicts like force-greets from mods that might trigger the "I'm a slut" dialogue and then drop while the player doesn't have full control.  If I was doing something fancy like a detailed quest mod I'd probably make sure not to accept that deal tho - and I don't know if force-greets could even trigger the deal so it may be a non-issue.

 

ok as for the force-greets, i have yet to see one trigger the "I'm a slut" dialogue with that deal taken, and i do have 2 mods that give me fairly regular force-greets,

and 3-4 more that give me the occasional force-greet.  not saying it cannot happen, just that i have never seen it happen yet and do get force-greeted fairly frequently

due to other mods.

 

possible suggestion (someone else already talked about this i think) ... some random chance of the NPC you are talking to during the "I'm a slut" deal doing more

than just the talking response.  have the NPC actually do something ... add a restraint to the PC, have sex with the PC, just something more would be great.

example of idea

"I'm a Slut" deal = IAS

#1

PC takes IAS to lower debt

PC goes to talk to Grelka (or anyone)

Follower puts hand on shoulder

PC tells Grelka "I'm a slut"

Grelka responds "Oh really, then you should enjoy this." 

Grelka puts a gag on PC (could be any restraint)

conversations ends

 

#2

PC has IAS active

PC goes to talk to Brynholf

Follower puts hand on shoulder

PC tells Brynhold "I'm a slut"

Brynholf reponds "great! I am horny anyway, and you seem to want more sex."

Brynholf starts sex with PC 

conversation ends

 

[Reesewow]

8 minutes ago, valcon767 said:

possible suggestion (someone else already talked about this i think) ... some random chance of the NPC you are talking to during the "I'm a slut" deal doing more

than just the talking response.  have the NPC actually do something ... add a restraint to the PC, have sex with the PC, just something more would be great.

example of idea

This already happens - if you take all the "I'm a slut" deals (naked in town + armbinder) you have a chance of the person you are talking to taking your statement as an invitation. 

[Clockwinding]

About the Shrines CTD, i had no deal active at the time.

 

I've tried about a dozen times with the mod on/off, debug dialogue forcing on/off, always with no deal. CTD every time the mod was active, never when the mod was stopped.

Reinstalling Skyrim shrines and having it lower in the load order didn't affect the bug either.

[MrEsturk]

Out of curiosity does the MiniEvent system get disabled if you are stuck in a major devious device (the kind your follower refuses to remove due to be afraid of being cursed)? I've been using this mod with Captured Dreams and only had one MiniEvent trigger thus far. Was wondering if it was due to the quest related bondage gear you spend most of your time stuck in while playing CD blocking such the minievents from occurring.

[-Ayleth-]

Uhm... Weird Question but ,can you kill your Follower to get free by any chance ? Theres some Mods that make my Follower killable.

 

-Aki

[DarkRose]

i have following problem (1.0). when in conversation with a npc, sometimes the following line appears. *your follower interupts and convince to fuck her slave* but after this sentence nothing happens, the npc just walks away. is there something wrong with my installation?

[darkfender666]

This version works fine for me but there is a little thing...

 

When i forget the collar, the "free for all" triggers startinf 3+ people animations.

This is not a good idea since it will bug or trigger just 1 animation while wearing a devious devices (from this same mod).

 

It would better to trigger normal 2 people SL animations i guess.

[valcon767]

8 hours ago, Reesewow said:

This already happens - if you take all the "I'm a slut" deals (naked in town + armbinder) you have a chance of the person you are talking to taking your statement as an invitation. 

ahh ..... ok that means i just was not far enough into that deal line to have it trigger

 

i have seen that before, but (mistakenly i guess) thought it was another mod doing it due to armbinders making me helpless anyway.

 

as i have some other mods that take advantage of pc being helpless (armbinders, blindfolds, straightjackets, and probably some other things

make my pc helpless if even just one item is equipped).

still nice to know it is in already

 

 

[tester86]

I was playing today with Iona (Thane of Riften) and while clearing a dungeon I hit her with a fireball spell. Well, she approached me and told me to watch what I'm doing. That made me think, seems to me my devious follower, certain that I can't be trusted with spells in dungeons would absolutely take my hands away. "If you can't control where you're aiming your spells, I'll just have to tie you up to keep myself  safe. Now, you can pay me to take it off, and a bit extra because now I have to be your bodyguard or..."  You get the idea. As it's a punishment it should cost either more gold or something humiliating. Or Both!

 

Just a thought!

 

Thanks for the fun. Love that right now I'm buying deals to just stay below the enslaved threshold. It's a great balancing act!

 

 

[Hanshurtig11]

16 minutes ago, tester86 said:

I was playing today with Iona (Thane of Riften) and while clearing a dungeon I hit her with a fireball spell. Well, she approached me and told me to watch what I'm doing. That made me think, seems to me my devious follower, certain that I can't be trusted with spells in dungeons would absolutely take my hands away. "If you can't control where you're aiming your spells, I'll just have to tie you up to keep myself  safe. Now, you can pay me to take it off, and a bit extra because now I have to be your bodyguard or..."  You get the idea. As it's a punishment it should cost either more gold or something humiliating. Or Both!

 

Just a thought!

 

Thanks for the fun. Love that right now I'm buying deals to just stay below the enslaved threshold. It's a great balancing act!

 

 

Theres something like this in Devious Enslaved Contiues. Has some nice folllower options to, but needs to be tweaked some more.

[Reesewow]

14 minutes ago, tester86 said:

I was playing today with Iona (Thane of Riften) and while clearing a dungeon I hit her with a fireball spell. Well, she approached me and told me to watch what I'm doing. That made me think, seems to me my devious follower, certain that I can't be trusted with spells in dungeons would absolutely take my hands away. "If you can't control where you're aiming your spells, I'll just have to tie you up to keep myself  safe. Now, you can pay me to take it off, and a bit extra because now I have to be your bodyguard or..."  You get the idea. As it's a punishment it should cost either more gold or something humiliating. Or Both!

 

Just a thought!

Cool idea, but I'd personally have to say please no unless it was optional - I love using massive AOE spells with followers around and got the Dragonborn "Followers don't take AOE spell damage" perk for that reason.  Unfortunately even with that perk they still yell at the player for setting them on fire.  If they could tie me up every time I hit them I'd never be free. 

 

I think if you actually manage to wreak your followers with AOE spells until they entered bleedout they lose lives and will eventually hit you with a debt increase, so at least there is some incentive to being careful.

[tester86]

6 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Cool idea, but I'd personally have to say please no unless it was optional - I love using massive AOE spells with followers around and got the Dragonborn "Followers don't take AOE spell damage" perk for that reason.  Unfortunately even with that perk they still yell at the player for setting them on fire.  If they could tie me up every time I hit them I'd never be free. 

 

I think if you actually manage to wreak your followers with AOE spells until they entered bleedout they lose lives and will eventually hit you with a debt increase, so at least there is some incentive to being careful.

Oh, I'm all about optional and menu choices. Options are good.  

[HexBolt8]

20 hours ago, Lozeak said:

I 100% want to use the Willpower system I created in Devious follower because honestly it falls and rises depending on your escape method of Devices so 100% you can control how difficult is too control.

Lozeak, if you're considering reusing your willpower system and extending it to other mods, you might take a quick look at "Devious Attributes" just for ideas (the mod never got past beta but some of its concepts might interest you):  https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/2623-devious-attributes/

 

In particular, it has ways to increase willpower besides sleeping (you'd probably raise resistance instead).  The idea is that doing things that boost your self esteem also strengthen your will.  Make a successful persuasion/intimation check, gain resistance.  Kill a powerful enemy, gain resistance.  Successfully steal a valuable item, gain resistance. 

 

Another idea it has is to treat willpower like currency.  So rather than having a willpower threshold to see if you can refuse a deal, like you have now, you lose willpower every time you refuse your master's commands (or "deals").  The player might choose to spend a large chunk of willpower to refuse something, or save the willpower to reject something even more objectionable, it's up to the player.  There's also the concept of pride (player loses pride whenever submitting to the master's commands).  It's devious, because the player is worse off whether refusing or agreeing, just loses less for agreeing. 

 

Maybe nothing will be useful to you, but I just thought I'd mention this as a source of possible ideas if you're thinking about building on what you have now. 

[Lozeak]

12 hours ago, Clockwinding said:

About the Shrines CTD, i had no deal active at the time.

 

I've tried about a dozen times with the mod on/off, debug dialogue forcing on/off, always with no deal. CTD every time the mod was active, never when the mod was stopped.

Reinstalling Skyrim shrines and having it lower in the load order didn't affect the bug either.

It's likely a problem with my mod, initially my mod CTD with all activators in with filters I was able to reduce to near none existent. There is an incompatibility with these two mod (I will look into it no promises though)

 

10 hours ago, MrEsturk said:

Out of curiosity does the MiniEvent system get disabled if you are stuck in a major devious device (the kind your follower refuses to remove due to be afraid of being cursed)? I've been using this mod with Captured Dreams and only had one MiniEvent trigger thus far. Was wondering if it was due to the quest related bondage gear you spend most of your time stuck in while playing CD blocking such the minievents from occurring.

If a device if tagged BlockGenric my mod will try to avoid some thing because it could mess with things. There are not many minievents in the mod anyway (3(1 is while ur enslaved) which is probably why you haven't seen many.

 

10 hours ago, AkiKay said:

Uhm... Weird Question but ,can you kill your Follower to get free by any chance ? Theres some Mods that make my Follower killable.

 

-Aki

So there is a error catch for this, not sure if it still works though basically as soon as you talk to another follower they will pick up were the other left off. My mod does make follower essitail though so no idea if another mod can override it or not.

 

9 hours ago, DarkRose said:

i have following problem (1.0). when in conversation with a npc, sometimes the following line appears. *your follower interupts and convince to fuck her slave* but after this sentence nothing happens, the npc just walks away. is there something wrong with my installation?

Prolly a bug, I never tested the code.

8 hours ago, darkfender666 said:

This version works fine for me but there is a little thing...

 

When i forget the collar, the "free for all" triggers startinf 3+ people animations.

This is not a good idea since it will bug or trigger just 1 animation while wearing a devious devices (from this same mod).

 

It would better to trigger normal 2 people SL animations i guess.

Not sure what you mean, did the mod bug out or are you saying it might because the code tests if there is a 4 person animation and if not it will do 3 then 2(1 person is player). I did test it with less animations and never got a bug except for the bug where you get a virtual call because an NPC leaves cell but that's a classic bug that is not really to do with me and very rare.

 

3 hours ago, tester86 said:

I was playing today with Iona (Thane of Riften) and while clearing a dungeon I hit her with a fireball spell. Well, she approached me and told me to watch what I'm doing. That made me think, seems to me my devious follower, certain that I can't be trusted with spells in dungeons would absolutely take my hands away. "If you can't control where you're aiming your spells, I'll just have to tie you up to keep myself  safe. Now, you can pay me to take it off, and a bit extra because now I have to be your bodyguard or..."  You get the idea. As it's a punishment it should cost either more gold or something humiliating. Or Both!

 

Just a thought!

 

Thanks for the fun. Love that right now I'm buying deals to just stay below the enslaved threshold. It's a great balancing act!

It could be a hook to a fun event or something in the future. I like the idea (ofc it would only happen after X amount of hits not every hit and configurable in MCM)

9 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Lozeak, if you're considering reusing your willpower system and extending it to other mods, you might take a quick look at "Devious Attributes" just for ideas (the mod never got past beta but some of its concepts might interest you):  https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/2623-devious-attributes/

 

In particular, it has ways to increase willpower besides sleeping (you'd probably raise resistance instead).  The idea is that doing things that boost your self esteem also strengthen your will.  Make a successful persuasion/intimation check, gain resistance.  Kill a powerful enemy, gain resistance.  Successfully steal a valuable item, gain resistance. 

 

Another idea it has is to treat willpower like currency.  So rather than having a willpower threshold to see if you can refuse a deal, like you have now, you lose willpower every time you refuse your master's commands (or "deals").  The player might choose to spend a large chunk of willpower to refuse something, or save the willpower to reject something even more objectionable, it's up to the player.  There's also the concept of pride (player loses pride whenever submitting to the master's commands).  It's devious, because the player is worse off whether refusing or agreeing, just loses less for agreeing. 

 

Maybe nothing will be useful to you, but I just thought I'd mention this as a source of possible ideas if you're thinking about building on what you have now. 

 

So I did consider a lot of those things in the early stage basically I want Willpower to be simple to understand.

 

Recovering willpower basically resting for 6 hour is easy to understand, easy to remember and easy to do.

Losing willpower is easy to understand over time to be you can see it drop in game when bad stuff happens.

It relation to DD is easy to discover because you get a notification when you sleep with them on.

 

More ways to recover willpower? I don't think so... 

More ways to lose willpower ? Yes but only if it is in some ways the players fault.... for example you raided that tomb and got cursed with DDs or you made a deal with a follower or you decide to challenge a horde of falmers and lost.

[Svel]

Thee follower interrupting for sex dialogue doesn't seem to be working. Also it popped up during the jacket event for some reason. 

[MrEsturk]

I had a suggestion: if your player's Willpower and Resistance is low enough sometimes your follower will attempt to push a deal on you the moment you speak to her.

 

I've actually hacked in a test version on my copy of your mod. It works like this: Whenever it is time for the follower to add more debt the script checks if the player's Willpower/Resist are low. If both are low enough (and the player isn't currently bogged down with a bunch of deals already) there's a random chance a global variable will be set. If the global is set trying to speak to your follower will automatically lead to her offering to make you a deal instead of her default greeting.

 

One thing I like about the system I set up is you can't just reload cheat out of it, since its linked to a global secretly turned on at random during debt additions. Naturally the global variable is set back to 0 after the player accepts or successfully refuses the deal, restoring the ability to speak to the follower normally.

[Thelargir]

This mod is awesome!
And I've got a suggestion for something I'd like to see added. Not sure if this has been brought up before. Anyway.
Sexual favors - As an alternative to making a deal with your follower, the player can instead choose to perform a single sexual favor in return for reduced debt. 
Could help with managing debt before it gets out of hand, but every sexual favor results in a loss of willpower, so you can't just do it nonstop without eventual consequences. 
I'm thinking a progression of favors from handjob (100 debt reduction) - boobjob (300) - blowjob (500) - sex (800) - anal (1000).

Also, I'd prefer it if there was an alternative to the chastity-belt deal. (I really dislike chastity-belts  ) 
How about a deal where you have to call your follower "master" or something like that, but they would still own your pussy, just without a chastity belt?