Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[qtpie]

is it not possible to disable the gold control feature? I can't toggle it off in MCM, and I see gold/debt changes even after being discarded by my follower.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, qtpie said:

is it not possible to disable the gold control feature? I can't toggle it off in MCM, and I see gold/debt changes even after being discarded by my follower.

Seems that the only way to stop gold control is to leave it through follower dialogs. It doesn't stop during pause, or by any other means.

Possibly (might not work) if you get a new follower, you can get out of gold control if you have enough credit and they are prepared to let you leave, but it doesn't seem that there is any other way.

 

I believe it's a bug. Lozeak may already have fixed it in his development version.

[Mexicola88]

Yeah gold control should be optional in the MCM and not always forced on.

[zupra]

I have a new game and i haven't made any gold control deals. Somehow my money still keeps disappearing. Like i just sold a bunch of stuff and right after that the follower updated my debt and then i noticed that i had 0 gold.

 

Also the slut deal does not seem to work always. Sometimes i get the text "your follower puts her hand on your shoulder" and then i'm forced to click it, so i think this is how it's suppose to be. But many times i just get the three dots dialogue "..." and i can just tab away, or if i click it then i get the normal dialogue again.

 

 

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Mexicola88 said:

Yeah gold control should be optional in the MCM and not always forced on.

It IS optional. I think, that if you don't enable it, it will not activate (though it's possible that's bugged too, ever tested, but there is definitely an MCM  tick-box to control it).

 

So, you should be able to stop it from starting up.

 

You just can't turn it off once it's started, which is the buggy part.

 

 

3 hours ago, zupra said:

I have a new game and i haven't made any gold control deals. Somehow my money still keeps disappearing. Like i just sold a bunch of stuff and right after that the follower updated my debt and then i noticed that i had 0 gold.

 

This is a different bug. Seems that some part of the gold system is bugged and randomly steals all your money when you change cell or ask about debt, (and possibly when the follower gets knocked down).

 

This bug has been much reported, and I don't think there's been any suggestion from Lozeak that it's "behaving as intended" - so probably will be fixed eventually.

 

I guess in the meantime, if it annoys you, you can just console your gold back.

 

Or you can go "Yay, all my gold got stolen, guess I'll have to take a deal."

[Hex Bolt]

Bug Report.  The mod's ReduceResist function doesn't work as intended when will is 0.  If resistance is reduced to 0 or less, ReduceResist sets it to 5.  Example:  Will 0, Resistance 2.  Forced to say "I'm a slut".  This is supposed to reduce resistance by 2.  But it increases it to 5. 

 

The logic there seems overly complicated.  Simplifying it could eliminate problems like this.

 

I was pleased to see that the mod does penalize the player for saying "I'm a slut" even for a seemingly harmless response like "I'll be sure to let my friends know".  I like it! 

 

Please don't be discouraged by bug reports, Lozeak.  We take the time to report problems because we care. 

[Lupine00]

Another bug (probably):

 

I started with 6700 or so gold, and a debt limit of 2700. Testing, using the add 1000 debt button in Debug...

 

1) Added 3000 debt.  Follower announces "Since you can't control your gold, I'll control it for you."

This is fine, though the message could refer to you not paying her, rather than being generic.

 

2) Added 3000 more debt. PC should now be (just) out of credit and into marginal debt - but can't see now due to Gold Control.

3) Started running along the road, ran for a few minutes.

4) Stopped, and asked follower about my debt.

Suddenly, willpower messages scroll past, 9, 8, 7, 6 ... lost four willpower, for some unknown reason.

 

There is no apparent reason for this willpower loss, (there is a cause, but it's not a good reason - see below - and you might never know it happens).

PC had no worn devices, but did have armor in odd slots, and was not having sex, was just in conversation with follower.

Armor used was the Buxom Wench stuff from the Yuriana mod.

 

I reloaded and repeated.

 

This time at step 4) I saw the follower emit the dialog along the lines "If you're not going to pay me, I'll just take what I want you good for nothing." before the willpower loss. Also a scrolling message in top left mentioned loss of items.

 

It seems the willpower loss is because the follower took your items. This doesn't seem to make sense, or follow any rules I was familiar with. Why did I lose willpower from this?

 

Also, the messages about item taking either don't appear at all (probably due to willpower messages scrolling them away before you can see them), or scroll past too quickly.

 

The dialog from the follower doesn't appear at all, if you happen to already be in a dialog when the mod decides to emit it.

 

Overall, it's very easy not to know the items were taken at all, because you never see a notification.

 

 

When you enter Gold Control mode, you have a dialog option [Click Me] to be told about the rules for gold control.

If you don't click this before the follower does something else, it disappears, and you'll never get to read it - but there's an option that does the exact same thing in the gold menu, which is always there.

 

5) Added some more debt, fast travelled and slept at an inn.

6) On leaving the inn, follower took items again.

7) Added some more debt, fast travelled and slept at an inn.

8 ) On leaving inn, follower is "angry" and this time I am enslaved rather than items being taken, though I still have plenty of items

9) A few minutes after enslavement, follower repeatedly takes items and adjusts gold (three times in succession, I believe). Lots of gold messages churn past.

10) Travel to a dungeon, and enter. I ask the follower to remove the boots and mitts, and she does.

I suspect that if you don't ask the follower to remove the items, and remove them yourself, the follower goes nuts right away, giving a misleading message. Perhaps this is by design?

11) Dungeon completed without followed throwing a hissy fit about going for a break back in town and slapping me in chains.

12) Give most loot items to follower for safe keeping.

13) Return to town, only to find cannot sell items because cannot get them off follower unless I'm in a dungeon (oops) due to mittens.

While this is a natural consequence of the setup, it seems somewhat non-immersive. In suggest, if you give follower items while enslaved, she should just vend them when you rest, and take the money off your debt.

14) While enslaved, I frequently and repeatedly saw a warning about dangerous debt level, but couldn't do anything about it due to gold control and enslavement. Presumably means follower about to take items, but they were never taken. (Except as mentioned above).

 

Would make more sense if follower took everything from you on enslavement. Instead you still have all your gear, barring what was stolen earlier.

Seems a bit odd if you come in via SS, sold at auction for 20 gold, carrying 40,000 gold in items.

 

At no time when items were taken was there any hint that I could retrieve the items somehow; are they simply gone forever?

 

The general vibe was that gold control was behaving strangely during enslavement. Seems odd that master might randomly decide to give you lots of gold on some days. Item stealing seemed erratic, particularly when it started chaining item thefts, one immediately after another, then gave me gold, then took gold away, etc. due to gold control. Even if nothing really bad happened, didn't create impression of robustness or inspire confidence.

[darkfender666]

I was trying to test the bondage deal more....

 

But since i changed follower i don t have it proposed anymore... how do i get the deal to tie player hands in cities?

 

 

P.S: DIDN T understand yet but managed to get the deal anyway and noticed a silly thing...

 

Rope armbinder from the mod Always work in falkreath for examnple but doesn t in whiterun ....

 

Makes no sense.

Obviously other devices from original DD mod (also from other mods) works everywhere....

 

[JuliusXX]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

16 hours ago, Mexicola88 said:

Yeah gold control should be optional in the MCM and not always forced on.

It IS optional. I think, that if you don't enable it, it will not activate (though it's possible that's bugged too, ever tested, but there is definitely an MCM  tick-box to control it).

 

So, you should be able to stop it from starting up.

 

You just can't turn it off once it's started, which is the buggy part.

 

I could turn the gold control off only by turning everything off in the MCM's gold control page. There are several ways to lose your money. I don't personally use this part of the mod atm, so I haven't done any deeper analysis how each option actually works.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Another bug (probably):

 

I started with 6700 or so gold, and a debt limit of 2700. Testing, using the add 1000 debt button in Debug...

 

1) Added 3000 debt.  Follower announces "Since you can't control your gold, I'll control it for you."

This is fine, though the message could refer to you not paying her, rather than being generic.

 

2) Added 3000 more debt. PC should now be (just) out of credit and into marginal debt - but can't see now due to Gold Control.

3) Started running along the road, ran for a few minutes.

4) Stopped, and asked follower about my debt.

Suddenly, willpower messages scroll past, 9, 8, 7, 6 ... lost four willpower, for some unknown reason.

 

There is no apparent reason for this willpower loss, (there is a cause, but it's not a good reason - see below - and you might never know it happens).

PC had no worn devices, but did have armor in odd slots, and was not having sex, was just in conversation with follower.

Armor used was the Buxom Wench stuff from the Yuriana mod.

 

I reloaded and repeated.

 

This time at step 4) I saw the follower emit the dialog along the lines "If you're not going to pay me, I'll just take what I want you good for nothing." before the willpower loss. Also a scrolling message in top left mentioned loss of items.

 

It seems the willpower loss is because the follower took your items. This doesn't seem to make sense, or follow any rules I was familiar with. Why did I lose willpower from this?

 

Also, the messages about item taking either don't appear at all (probably due to willpower messages scrolling them away before you can see them), or scroll past too quickly.

 

The dialog from the follower doesn't appear at all, if you happen to already be in a dialog when the mod decides to emit it.

 

Overall, it's very easy not to know the items were taken at all, because you never see a notification.

 

 

 

In my games I've always seen the notification the items were taken. It should also put a quest in your journal, did that show up for you?

[Lupine00]

21 minutes ago, Bobbert6996 said:

In my games I've always seen the notification the items were taken. It should also put a quest in your journal, did that show up for you?

I think it prints it, but there is so much spam it is whipped out of sight before you can read it.

 

However, I'm quite sure that the player dialog announcement can be lost and never triggered, based on the timing of your dialogue interactions with the follower.

 

There is no quest. Not a trace of one.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I think it prints it, but there is so much spam it is whipped out of sight before you can read it.

 

However, I'm quite sure that the player dialog announcement can be lost and never triggered, based on the timing of your dialogue interactions with the follower.

 

There is no quest. Not a trace of one.

Hmm, I will check again but I remembered seeing a quest that said "My items have been sold to Akhari"

[Hex Bolt]

57 minutes ago, Bobbert6996 said:

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

I think it prints it, but there is so much spam it is whipped out of sight before you can read it.

 

However, I'm quite sure that the player dialog announcement can be lost and never triggered, based on the timing of your dialogue interactions with the follower.

 

There is no quest. Not a trace of one.

Hmm, I will check again but I remembered seeing a quest that said "My items have been sold to Akhari"

A possible explanation for the difference in what you're seeing is that "I'll just take what I want" could mean only your gold being taken.  Since no items were taken, there's no quest.  That might have happened to Lupine00.

 

As a note, the follower's taking your gold for non payment while in gold control mode is pointless.  Example:  Follower gets angry and takes the 1000 gold you're carrying (which isn't yours because of gold control).  Debt decreases by 1000 (can be seen by inspecting the global variable).  But when you enter a new cell, the follower tops you off with 1000 gold again, and debt is right back where it was.  In essence, the follower gets mad at you and "punishes" you by stealing her own gold. 

[Leeyds4LLTS]

13 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It IS optional. I think, that if you don't enable it, it will not activate (though it's possible that's bugged too, ever tested, but there is definitely an MCM  tick-box to control it).

 

So, you should be able to stop it from starting up.

 

You just can't turn it off once it's started, which is the buggy part.

 

 

 

This is a different bug. Seems that some part of the gold system is bugged and randomly steals all your money when you change cell or ask about debt, (and possibly when the follower gets knocked down).

 

This bug has been much reported, and I don't think there's been any suggestion from Lozeak that it's "behaving as intended" - so probably will be fixed eventually.

 

I guess in the meantime, if it annoys you, you can just console your gold back.

 

Or you can go "Yay, all my gold got stolen, guess I'll have to take a deal."

FYI --I noticed that I also had gold missing every once in awhile, and I was trying to really keep track of it so I could try and manage my gold situation better.  During this process I noticed that the gold disappeared during involuntary or forced sexual encounters or rapes...  the kind where you have the option to "resist".   When I resisted my gold was still intact.  When I submitted the gold went missing.   I don't know if this is DF related, or related to another mod that also permits some opportunity to steal gold from the PC.   

[Mexicola88]

15 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It IS optional. I think, that if you don't enable it, it will not activate (though it's possible that's bugged too, ever tested, but there is definitely an MCM  tick-box to control it).

 

So, you should be able to stop it from starting up.

 

You just can't turn it off once it's started, which is the buggy part.

 

 

 

This is a different bug. Seems that some part of the gold system is bugged and randomly steals all your money when you change cell or ask about debt, (and possibly when the follower gets knocked down).

 

This bug has been much reported, and I don't think there's been any suggestion from Lozeak that it's "behaving as intended" - so probably will be fixed eventually.

 

I guess in the meantime, if it annoys you, you can just console your gold back.

 

Or you can go "Yay, all my gold got stolen, guess I'll have to take a deal."

Yeah well then the mod author should fix it asap, this is really annoying.

[mai_hasegawa]

1 hour ago, Leeyds4LLTS said:

FYI --I noticed that I also had gold missing every once in awhile, and I was trying to really keep track of it so I could try and manage my gold situation better.  During this process I noticed that the gold disappeared during involuntary or forced sexual encounters or rapes...  the kind where you have the option to "resist".   When I resisted my gold was still intact.  When I submitted the gold went missing.   I don't know if this is DF related, or related to another mod that also permits some opportunity to steal gold from the PC.   

There's an option for that in DF MCM.

[Lozeak]

3 hours ago, Mexicola88 said:

Yeah well then the mod author should fix it asap, this is really annoying.

lol ^^, we all should do a lot of things! When I get in the mood I'll fix don't worry. I actually don't know what causes this bug so yea it might take time. I do have plans on working on the mod over the next 2 days.

[eulexia]

Would be good if the "I'm a slut" deal could have a timer for each NPC you talk to, so that you only tell them you're a slut once per given time frame (an hour in game?).  

 

Sometimes I end up telling them I'm a slut three or four times in a row, which breaks immersion a bit.  

[Mexicola88]

43 minutes ago, eulexia said:

Would be good if the "I'm a slut" deal could have a timer for each NPC you talk to, so that you only tell them you're a slut once per given time frame (an hour in game?).  

 

Sometimes I end up telling them I'm a slut three or four times in a row, which breaks immersion a bit.  

I agree it's annoying as hell.

[Lupine00]

16 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

A possible explanation for the difference in what you're seeing is that "I'll just take what I want" could mean only your gold being taken.  Since no items were taken, there's no quest.  That might have happened to Lupine00.

No. Items were definitely taken. On two separate occasions the follower took armor pieces that I was actually wearing, along with other stuff. The follower seems to have a particular attraction for stealing your shoes.

 

You can stop things being taken by giving them to the follower to carry, which is a little counter-intuitive.

 

Also, if you're looking at the quotes of my post, note that I added several updates to the original post, so it has information that may not be in the quotes.

[Lupine00]

39 minutes ago, Mexicola88 said:

I agree it's annoying as hell.

Mexicola has a lot of anger

 

I believe DCL's device comments have a timer, which is a good thing, as they can be a lot more hazardous than DF slut comments...

 

"Hello."

"Oh, I see you're wearing a corset. I guess that means you want to be locked in a full set of bondage gear, including boots, leg irons, armbinder and blindfold? Happy to oblige!"

"Mmmmf! (WTF!)"

 

The lesson you learn when bound in Skyrim is don't trust anyone, don't talk to anybody. Also, all men actually are rapists. Go figure?

[Lupine00]

Another point from my testing and re-testing of enslavement: there's a reliably reproducible issue with transition into Sexlab scenes from crawling.

 

It results in the character repeatedly popping up and down until the scene starts.

The scene then (often) starts with the participants displaced and you have to reset positions to fix it.

When the scene ends, the character starts popping up and down again until you move.

 

 

This always occurs when SL Adventures starts a rape. Not sure about scenes that DF starts itself, but I think they have the same issue.

Also, on some occasions the entire scene locks up and can never end, not even using debug options from SL Adventures, Sexlab or Zaz.

 

SD+ does not seem to have this issue with its crawling implementation - though I think the animations are the same ones.

 

Alas, it is, as Mexicola would say "Annoying as hell." At least when the scene breaks and locks up completely, and all you can do is reload.

 

None of these issues occur for me if not crawling.

[Lupine00]

Enslavement issues apart, still liking it better than SD+, but the gloves eventually lose their novelty. It's not that they're bad, I love them in moderate doses, it's just that you can end up in them for a long time. A long, long time, and you start to wish for something fresh. Would be nice if there were at least cosmetic alternatives, and other restraints, (you can get chained up, sure) but just more range of things you can be made to wear as time goes by.

 

Sasha's yoke swapping is an example of this. You can use an alchemy table, forge etc, but you might regret it. It's good to have the options.

 

The other thing is: why are you forced to wear boots when the collar makes you crawl? Seems redundant, though it does trigger "boots make helpless". Just seems that boots that made you crawl would make more sense than the collar. Collar could do something else...

 

Also, if you had to go through a dialog to ask the follower to travel to a new city, or a new dungeon, and the follower then made you jump through a few hoops first (such as sex, sex with everyone in the square, changing up your restraints for a while, adding more debt, or some weird new temporary rule) ... would create that vibe that SD+ has that you really aren't in control and the master is deciding where you have to go (without a need for the stupid leash).

 

So, if you left the town area without "getting permission" you'd be punished.

It would be great even if there was no real gameplay attached, just the need to go through the dialogue.

 

Would be an interesting option if the follower could arbitrarily demand to go to some place, and you'd have to take them there, and would get some debt paid off on arrival as reward - and maybe a free night in an inn.  Again, the follower would be calling the shots, but without wrecking your game.

[Nazzzgul666]

 

3 hours ago, eulexia said:

Would be good if the "I'm a slut" deal could have a timer for each NPC you talk to, so that you only tell them you're a slut once per given time frame (an hour in game?).  

 

Sometimes I end up telling them I'm a slut three or four times in a row, which breaks immersion a bit.  

True. Especially because of DCUL, to me it seems the "timer" there is rather a counter for started dialogues, so if i have to talk to 2 NPCs and start it 8 times in a row because of DF, chances are quite high DCUL will trigger too. I think a timer/counter/whatever per NPC would be best, so if you talk to 10 NPCs you can get 10 taps on your shoulder, but only 1 for each NPC within a certain time (2 ingame hours = 10 minutes real time would do i think).

[Lupine00]

Here is my modified ESP file for 1-706.

(Also has the updated SKSE translation file for English).

 

DeviousFollowers_1_706_English.7z

 

 

 

...and the translation EET file for those that want to apply to any ESP version they think it might work on.

 

DeviousFollowers_1_706_EET.7z

 

 

The ESP should drop into a 1.706 game in progress, no problems, as it doesn't change any scripts, or code, only dialog text.

 

Whether or not you like this better than the existing Lozeak version is up to you.

 

I had some challenges here. As before, I tried to remove anachronisms, glaringly non-lore phrases, and stuff where the follower sounded a bit too much like a seventeen year-old American girl from an amusing popular teen-movie.

 

Tragically, this meant the loss of "cum dumpster". Wonderful as this phrase is, there is no such thing as a dumpster in Skyrim - a culture yet to invent the chamber-pot, and where loose garbage bloats your save game forever - so after much agonising, I tried to replace it with something almost as colorful.

 

I also added text substitution to some message boxes that benefited from it, and removed it from the town collar message box that seems not to have enabled substitutions.