Devious Devices

[izzyknows]

4 hours ago, AWHA2 said:

Is it possible to simply disable the gag talk mechanic for NPCs? Personally I only use DD on NPCs for the cosmetics.

Open Devious Devices.esm in FO4Edit

Open the Quest tab and DD_Library then "remove" all the stuff that is gag related. The highlighted stuff.

 

But... if you put a gag on an NPC, make sure you never plan on removing it.

 

Spoiler

 

[AWHA2]

12 minutes ago, izzyknows said:

Open Devious Devices.esm in FO4Edit

Open the Quest tab and DD_Library then "remove" all the stuff that is gag related. The highlighted stuff.

 

But... if you put a gag on an NPC, make sure you never plan on removing it.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Why is that? I thought the quest blocking access to inventory is the problem. Is there something else preventing removal?

[izzyknows]

1 hour ago, AWHA2 said:

Why is that? I thought the quest blocking access to inventory is the problem. Is there something else preventing removal?

DD was never intended to be used on NPC's. You will encounter bugs and issues. Sooo.. just expect shit to go south.

[AWHA2]

17 minutes ago, izzyknows said:

DD was never intended to be used on NPC's. You will encounter bugs and issues. Sooo.. just expect shit to go south.

That's unfortunate. I only intended to use it on NPCs so now I'm not sure if I want to install it at all.

[vaultbait]

So... it's awesome that the escape difficulty features were fixed and extended in the recent RCs (thanks for the hard work on that!), but... they seem to be far too difficult.

 

I have the difficulty modifier at 0 which is supposed to reduce difficulty by 75%, but nearly every device I happen across has a master level lock, so until a little while ago when I finally achieved master rank in the locksmith perk, I could never actually pick the locks on just about any of them. Now that I can attempt to pick their locks, with the lock-picking mini-game feature enabled, I get one bobby pin's try but it seems to want me to pick multiple locks?

 

I've got a yoke equipped, and the few times I was able to pick it with a single bobby pin it immediately presented me with a new lock to pick. Once I managed to pick both of those without breaking my one bobby pin and it gave me a third lock. Failing of course means the new timer feature kicks in and I can't try again for some random but not tiny number of game hours, which also don't decrease when sleeping or waiting. I've also been completely unable to struggle out of anything.

 

The end result is that on the very easiest difficulty, I pretty much just give up and use some alternative means of removing devices instead, which makes all the fancy escape logic pointless. It seems like there's either something wrong with the difficulty calculations and the lock-picking mini-game in my particular setup, or it's simply tuned to be far too hard. In DD 2.0, where the difficulty was broken, I was able to struggle out of a lot of things after a few tries, and could manage to pick locks on them without too much trouble as long as I didn't mind burning through bobby pins, and could also retry pretty much immediately after failing (one game hour delay between tries, I think it was?). It would be great if the lowest difficulty level in the new DD was basically equivalently easy as DD 2.0.

 

Is anyone else experiencing this degree of challenge with escaping from devices in the RCs, or is it just me?

[jbezorg]

Is anyone using RC7 with PipPad?  For the old version of DD I had to add the PipBoy keyword to the PipPad to get it to work. Using the PipPad with RC7 caused an endless cycle of equip/unequip.

is it:

• The keywords I added or
• Should I set PipPad to a different body slot or
• Something else?

Also. I merged the zips RC3-7 only. Are there other zips that need to be  added? 

Edited November 12, 2021 by jbezorg

[Martok73]

22 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

So... it's awesome that the escape difficulty features were fixed and extended in the recent RCs (thanks for the hard work on that!), but... they seem to be far too difficult.

 

I have the difficulty modifier at 0 which is supposed to reduce difficulty by 75%, but nearly every device I happen across has a master level lock, so until a little while ago when I finally achieved master rank in the locksmith perk, I could never actually pick the locks on just about any of them. Now that I can attempt to pick their locks, with the lock-picking mini-game feature enabled, I get one bobby pin's try but it seems to want me to pick multiple locks?

 

I've got a yoke equipped, and the few times I was able to pick it with a single bobby pin it immediately presented me with a new lock to pick. Once I managed to pick both of those without breaking my one bobby pin and it gave me a third lock. Failing of course means the new timer feature kicks in and I can't try again for some random but not tiny number of game hours, which also don't decrease when sleeping or waiting. I've also been completely unable to struggle out of anything.

 

The end result is that on the very easiest difficulty, I pretty much just give up and use some alternative means of removing devices instead, which makes all the fancy escape logic pointless. It seems like there's either something wrong with the difficulty calculations and the lock-picking mini-game in my particular setup, or it's simply tuned to be far too hard. In DD 2.0, where the difficulty was broken, I was able to struggle out of a lot of things after a few tries, and could manage to pick locks on them without too much trouble as long as I didn't mind burning through bobby pins, and could also retry pretty much immediately after failing (one game hour delay between tries, I think it was?). It would be great if the lowest difficulty level in the new DD was basically equivalently easy as DD 2.0.

 

Is anyone else experiencing this degree of challenge with escaping from devices in the RCs, or is it just me?

 

Yep, it's not just you, even with the slider at 0 I still get 4 lockpicking mini-games to go thru before unlocking anything, everything is master level and if it wasn't for the lockpick bar mod I have I'd fail every time.  I have also been saved many times by the mod DD Unlock Bench as well, especially when having no lockpicks and no keys and overweight where I can't fast travel.

 

 

I would also happen to agree with some of the above posts as well, that the usage on npcs not being intended is sad and very disappointing. It is unfortunate that this version of DD does not work the same way it does on Skyrim, and yes I know two different games, but still, DD works flawlessly there and can be used on NPCs with no issues and no gag talk blocking dialog either. Even tho it's two different games perhaps someone can take a look at how gag talk is handled there and maybe possibly do the same thing here? IDK, it would be really nice if DD for npcs worked the same way here that it does over there. I don't know if it's possible or not but looking at how gag dialog on npcs and the player is handled and also how inventory is handled while wrists are restrained may lead to a breakthru here to improve on how things/events are handled by this version. Even tho they are two separate games the engine is very very similar as alot of things work almost identical. So I'm hoping that someone here that knows more about scripting and coding then I do can look at the innards of DD and DCL over on Skyrim and then look at the innards for DD here and see if anything at all can be done to possible incorporate the dialog functionality from there, over here.... I know from my experience in past jobs we've often looked at the code of other programs to get ideas and insight on how to improve or add new functionality to our own programs and code. (used to be a programmer years ago). Anyway I hope this will inspire someone to take a look and see what's possible because the mod is good now, but I believe it has potential to be so much more. Keep up the good work y'all.

[Martok73]

5 minutes ago, jbezorg said:

Is anyone using RC7 with PipPad?  For the old version of DD I had to add the PipBoy keyword to the PipPad to get it to work. Using the PipPad with RC7 caused an endless cycle of equip/unequip.

is it:

• The keywords I added or
• Should I set PipPad to a different body slot or
• Something else?

Also. I merged the zips RC3-7 only. Are there other zips that need to be  added? 

 

I use RC7 with the pippad with no issue except for hen wrists are restrained it won't open, which makes getting out of bonds a pain in the ass and making the only way to remove without console is to open another container and use that to unlock/pick player restraints.

[vaultbait]

50 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

Yep, it's not just you, even with the slider at 0 I still get 4 lockpicking mini-games to go thru before unlocking anything, everything is master level and if it wasn't for the lockpick bar mod I have I'd fail every time.

 

Thanks for confirming.

 

50 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

I have also been saved many times by the mod DD Unlock Bench as well, especially when having no lockpicks and no keys and overweight where I can't fast travel.

 

Yeah, I use that too, though sometimes I've got enough willpower to use the willpower unlock feature in Sex Attributes, or will get lucky with a Harassment devious or flirt encounter removing them.

 

50 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

I would also happen to agree with some of the above posts as well, that the usage on npcs not being intended is sad and very disappointing. It is unfortunate that this version of DD does not work the same way it does on Skyrim, and yes I know two different games, but still, DD works flawlessly there and can be used on NPCs with no issues and no gag talk blocking dialog either. Even tho it's two different games perhaps someone can take a look at how gag talk is handled there and maybe possibly do the same thing here? IDK, it would be really nice if DD for npcs worked the same way here that it does over there. I don't know if it's possible or not but looking at how gag dialog on npcs and the player is handled and also how inventory is handled while wrists are restrained may lead to a breakthru here to improve on how things/events are handled by this version. Even tho they are two separate games the engine is very very similar as alot of things work almost identical. So I'm hoping that someone here that knows more about scripting and coding then I do can look at the innards of DD and DCL over on Skyrim and then look at the innards for DD here and see if anything at all can be done to possible incorporate the dialog functionality from there, over here.... I know from my experience in past jobs we've often looked at the code of other programs to get ideas and insight on how to improve or add new functionality to our own programs and code. (used to be a programmer years ago). Anyway I hope this will inspire someone to take a look and see what's possible because the mod is good now, but I believe it has potential to be so much more. Keep up the good work y'all.

 

Just to be clear, you're aware that both the Skyrim and Fallout 4 versions of DD were created by the same author, right? A lot of the shortcomings in this port of it are due to limitations in FO4 itself.

[vaultbait]

56 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

 

I use RC7 with the pippad with no issue except for hen wrists are restrained it won't open, which makes getting out of bonds a pain in the ass and making the only way to remove without console is to open another container and use that to unlock/pick player restraints.

 

Try setting the Hide Pip-Boy option in the Devious Devices MCM to -1.

 

And yes I'm using Pip-Pad with RC7 successfully, though when mittens get equipped I've noticed I get notifications about "You can't pick up this item with sealed hands!" and "You can't equip this item with sealed hands!" which I think might be related to Pip-Pad (doesn't seem to keep it from working though).

[vaultbait]

1 hour ago, jbezorg said:

Also. I merged the zips RC3-7 only. Are there other zips that need to be  added? 

 

Nope. In fact, you only need RC3 and RC7, not any of the others in between.

[izzyknows]

2 hours ago, vaultbait said:

I have the difficulty modifier at 0 which is supposed to reduce difficulty by 75%, but nearly every device I happen across has a master level lock,

It seems regardless of settings 0>9 the lockpick mini game is the same, multi Master locks. Tip: try setting 9 for the struggle/cut (think the easy/hard is backwards)

 

2 hours ago, vaultbait said:

which also don't decrease when sleeping or waiting.

There's an "anti cheat" code that is also bugged. The DD timer pauses if sleeping/waiting. But.. if you cancel the sleep/wait event before it naturally runs out, it adds the remaining time to the DD timer.

 

Have you had the Institute leg cuffs not reset the player speed to normal when removing them? I also noticed that when testing a gag on an NPC, the face morph wasn't removed with the gag.

Edited November 13, 2021 by izzyknows

[Martok73]

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

 

Thanks for confirming.

 

 

Yeah, I use that too, though sometimes I've got enough willpower to use the willpower unlock feature in Sex Attributes, or will get lucky with a Harassment devious or flirt encounter removing them.

 

 

Just to be clear, you're aware that both the Skyrim and Fallout 4 versions of DD were created by the same author, right? A lot of the shortcomings in this port of it are due to limitations in FO4 itself.

 

Yes I know they are from the same author, however I don't think she spent as much time with this version as she has with Skyrim because she's still working on it and has left this one to you guys in the community. Which is fine, but when you rush thru things bugs happen and things are overlooked. don't get me wrong I think she's great and appreciate what she has done, but I honestly think that this version could be just as good as Skyrim's version with enough time and patience. As far as the limitation of FO4, both games are based on the same creation engine, so even tho there are some differences most things will work comparably with enough TLC.

 

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

 

Try setting the Hide Pip-Boy option in the Devious Devices MCM to -1.

 

And yes I'm using Pip-Pad with RC7 successfully, though when mittens get equipped I've noticed I get notifications about "You can't pick up this item with sealed hands!" and "You can't equip this item with sealed hands!" which I think might be related to Pip-Pad (doesn't seem to keep it from working though).

 

I have that setting on -1, and anytime my pc's wrists or hands are bound in anyway the pip-pad trys to open but is not there, so no way to select anything in my menus or inventory to unlock what I'm wearing, have to result to opening a container to remove them. I get the error about can't equip this item with bound or tied hands or something to that affect. I'll try to remember to take a screenshot next time I'm in game to show ya what happens when trying to open the pip-pad with bound hands/wrists. Hoping that makes sense.

[Elsidia]

16 hours ago, naaitsab said:

Yeah, perhaps it's a good idea to show a popup one time to discourage usage on NPC's

For gag talk i just add already done the same player timer for dialogues to NPC too.  If player and NPC is gagged 1 time you need speak and timer works for both. For other things i don't have a clue how to fix. If player is gagged and speaks with non gagged NPC then you have 30 sec and also if you now speak with gagged NP still timer work and dialogue is success.

 

 

[Elsidia]

8 hours ago, vaultbait said:

which also don't decrease when sleeping or waiting.

In original and also in modified version cheat engine works only for sleeping. (The same is in Skyrim, so...) Still you can find some chair and wait there to cheat necessary time.

About difficulty: default difficulty is 4 (zero is nightmare survival difficulty). I don't remember about minigame. but master lock picking skill for lockpick is decreased for 1 level in DD lockpick using.

[Elsidia]

6 hours ago, izzyknows said:

The DD timer pauses if sleeping/waiting.

Wrong. Anti cheat engine is only for sleep. Sleeping bug is fixed for RC7. And wait cheat system not added. You can wait and take off DD items.

[Elsidia]

7 hours ago, vaultbait said:

And yes I'm using Pip-Pad with RC7 successfully, though when mittens get equipped I've noticed I get notifications about "You can't pick up this item with sealed hands!" and "You can't equip this item with sealed hands!" which I think might be

@Martok73

1) You need add Pip-Pad mod as master to DD in FO4. if can't you need convert pippad mod to esm type.

2) Add all pippads id to DD item exclusive list (as first made pippad as master now it's possible). List:   DD_BondageMittensExclusionList [FLST:0B0961F4]

 

Now pipad works fine.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Elsidia

[Elsidia]

8 hours ago, Martok73 said:

on NPCs with no issues and no gag talk blocking dialog either.

UPD: Added notify for @naaitsab, @vaultbait if interest in that subject.

 

There is my made and tested in game instructions how to add gag talking timer the same as for player to NPC:

As simple link: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/73925-devious-devices/page/72/#comment-2904536

or orginal link:

Edited November 13, 2021 by Elsidia

[Martok73]

2 hours ago, Elsidia said:

@Martok73

1) You need add Pip-Pad mod as master to DD in FO4. if can't you need convert pippad mod to esm type.

2) Add all pippads id to DD item exclusive list (as first made pippad as master now it's possible). List:   DD_BondageMittensExclusionList [FLST:0B0961F4]

 

Now pipad works fine.

 

2 hours ago, Elsidia said:

UPD: Added notify for @naaitsab, @vaultbait if interest in that subject.

 

There is my made and tested in game instructions how to add gag talking timer the same as for player to NPC:

As simple link: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/73925-devious-devices/page/72/#comment-2904536

or orginal link:

 

Ok, I'll try both of these and see what happens, hopefully I don't screw em' up and get em' right so they work. We shall see, too tired tonight to do it, will try it later when not beat.

[AWHA2]

14 hours ago, Martok73 said:

I would also happen to agree with some of the above posts as well, that the usage on npcs not being intended is sad and very disappointing.

It's a bit like having a car only to be told that you can't drive it when it's raining. Kind of defeats the whole purpose.

 

Personally I would be fine with eliminating most of the scripted "mechanics" for NPCs, so that they work on NPCs.

[vaultbait]

15 hours ago, izzyknows said:

It seems regardless of settings 0>9 the lockpick mini game is the same, multi Master locks. Tip: try setting 9 for the struggle/cut (think the easy/hard is backwards)

 

Ooh, I hadn't considered that the help text in the MCM might be wrong/backwards. I'll definitely try it on 9 and see if things get a lot easier. Thanks!

 

8 hours ago, Elsidia said:

Wrong. Anti cheat engine is only for sleep. Sleeping bug is fixed for RC7. And wait cheat system not added. You can wait and take off DD items.

 

I'm not sure what sleeping bug you're referring to, but the delay definitely didn't decrease when I slept. You're right that I didn't test waiting in a chair though, I wrongly assumed both would be treated the same. Thanks for the suggestion/clarification.

 

8 hours ago, Elsidia said:

1) You need add Pip-Pad mod as master to DD in FO4. if can't you need convert pippad mod to esm type.

2) Add all pippads id to DD item exclusive list (as first made pippad as master now it's possible). List:   DD_BondageMittensExclusionList [FLST:0B0961F4]

 

That's good to know, and worth adding to an FAQ on the file page. I'll probably just set Rogg's DD Items Manager to 0% on mittens instead though, I don't find them especially exciting.

[Elsidia]

33 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

I'll probably just set Rogg's DD Items Manager to 0% on mittens instead though

This list isn't used only for mittens as it in list name. This list is used for any item what have effect on - DD_EffectSpell_NoItemEquip "No Item Equip" [SPEL:0B05A4CC]

Example: latex straitjacket and similar items, armbinders, vault tech dress from DCW.

See FO4edit:

Spoiler

 

33 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

I'm not sure what sleeping bug you're referring to, but the delay definitely didn't decrease when I slept.

This is fixed in RC7 as i see script lines about it inside scripts.

Ok there is mathematics explanation of old bug:

You have locked into DD item and coooldown time is 4 hours for next attempt of escape.

Go to sleep for 8 hours.

Break a sleep after 1 hour: 8 -1=7

Now DD item cooldown is 4+7=11 hours.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Elsidia

[vaultbait]

15 minutes ago, Elsidia said:

This list isn't used only for mittens as it in list name. This list is used for any item what have effect on - DD_EffectSpell_NoItemEquip "No Item Equip" [SPEL:0B05A4CC]

Example: latex straitjacket and similar items, armbinders, vault tech dress from DCW.

 

Yep, I normally disable those too (and I don't use DCW). I've only had them enabled recently so I could playtest the recent dev work more thoroughly, and to be able to double-check the FG conversions in-game.

 

17 minutes ago, Elsidia said:

This is fixed in RC7 as i see script lines about it inside scripts.

Ok there is mathematics explanation of old bug:

You have locked into DD item and coooldown time is 4 hours for next attempt of escape.

Go to sleep for 8 hours.

Break a sleep after 1 hour: 8 -1=7

Now DD item cooldown is 4+7=11 hours.

 

Thanks, I wasn't breaking mid-sleep, just sleeping normally. After all I wasn't attempting to "cheat" the timers, just wait them out. Since I generally do survival style playthroughs, sleeping or waiting isn't a zero-cost activity as I'll still need to eat, drink, bathe, and so on at regular intervals.

[Pinute]

To make a long story while working on a tentative mod list I crossed paths with vaultbait's Aug 18 patch list for 2.0. "Gold," I thought because for better or worse having DD in my load order, which is always, is like having an elephant in a circus. It can crowd everything else, suck up resources, and has always loved stomping your people flat. FO4 fucked hard with DD a few years ago and it was sometimes excruciating. Knowing this patch list was less than 3 months meant that DD still existed and people still loved it, so things had to be better, right? I archived the comment and felt much better myself.

 

Maybe I should have jumped to the last couple pages, but it was Saturday morning and the sun was out.  Before I clicked away I took a quick glanced at the next couple posts, then a few more, and kept on reading because it was good shit. I've made multiple notes that will be useful elsewhere, used all my likes, and am flirting with the idea of going back and using up a few more days worth. It turns out I didn't save those hours but they've been well spent, thank you all very much.

 

 

[Martok73]

13 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

Yep, I normally disable those too (and I don't use DCW). I've only had them enabled recently so I could playtest the recent dev work more thoroughly, and to be able to double-check the FG conversions in-game.

 

 

Thanks, I wasn't breaking mid-sleep, just sleeping normally. After all I wasn't attempting to "cheat" the timers, just wait them out. Since I generally do survival style playthroughs, sleeping or waiting isn't a zero-cost activity as I'll still need to eat, drink, bathe, and so on at regular intervals.

 

These timers to me just don't make sense anyway in Fallout, in Skyrim yeah they kinda make sense lorewise in a lore friendly ish way, cuz magic exists, but in Fallout, unless every single item has an electronic lock, which they use keys, so they don't, having timers on them doesn't make any sense from a lore friendly perspective. The slave collars yeah, timers make sense on those cause they are electronic slave collars that lorewise can hook up to a terminal or your pip-boy to be unlocked or modified or otherwise (if using Realhandcuffs mod, slave collars actually do hook to pip-boy to unlock). But a corset, or an armbinder, or a buttplug for godsakes makes absolutely no sense at all having a timer cause ain't no way in hell those items can have electronic locks. Which brings me to another point, why does every single item in DD Fallout have a timer when they damn sure didn't in DD Skyrim? It surely can't be an all or nothing type deal cause you can edit each item individually in xEdit, so why put timers on everything here when the original doesn't have them absolutely on everything? Some things have timers others don't. Me personally I'd love to see the timers completely removed from every item that was not a slave collar with an electronic lock, cause that would make more sense, if it uses a key then no timer, if it's electronic ie slave collar have a timer. Just little more lore friendlyness and QOL. IMHO. And if ya just have to have these timers on absolutely everything then damn make the timers go down when you sleep and not go up, that's pretty nuts for them to not go down sleeping but go down by waiting, no logic there.