Devious Devices

[vaultbait]

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Hi, have a small issue to report, using RC7 update, (last one I could find in 134pages), and the sounds for the chains and bells are continuing to play even after removing the devices from both the player and npc. Even when completely emptying the inventory of both player and npc the sounds are still playing, not sure how to make them stop either. The sounds are cool while wearing things that make noise, but I assume they're supposed to stop after taking them off.

 

If you're removing equipment from NPCs via their ActorContainer interface, make sure to also unequip the UNEQUIP_BEFORE_CLOSING item as that's what removes the effects. Aside from that addition, I agree with the other reply.

 

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Also regarding the pug with the bell attached, even after building the device in bodyslide to my pc body, while wearing the device it is distorted and looks very strange. It still functions and works, it just looks like it's been thru a compacter and is kinda flat.

 

Using FG Body and DD FG Conversion Bodyslide files, all other devices I have tested so far seem to be fine, just the chain/bell plugs that go between the character/npc's legs.

 

I intentionally discarded the bodyslide files for the plugs in my v1.3.x updates of the FG+HHS conversion for the same exact reason. They seem to look and work fine as long as you don't build them in BodySlide.

[Elsidia]

I can publish script part of removing effects. I highly modified it and my test no find any visible bugs on player (i try different test, but no one can't guaranties that there no bugs) on NPC still are some unsuspected bugs but in main line all works much better.

Still not sure that all works fine. Also this fixes made effects remove slower - as example when you remove armbinder. after armbinder assets disappear, you see damaged arms a few seconds and then arms goes to normal position.

But now it's too late - this patch not work with RC7 as there is new animations, new torture devices and probably new animations keywords. My fix are made depend on current old keywords and in remove process it's checks all possible keywords on object (player or npc) and fixes all wrong animations. I still not understand why but on NPC it's fix animations even if you equip nipple piercings what in theory not trigger this part of my script. Also if after remove not removed UNEQUIP_BEFORE_CLOSING in most cases (not on all) it's still bug animations. Sometimes it fix by equip or unequip other piece of DD, but sometimes not. I still not understand how this system works.

 

 I still not sure if it worth publish those script part here. I don't know what to do now.

 

[Elsidia]

Seems at least i got some understanding about some effects bug. Effects added and remover works on keywords.

it uses effect keyword array. If two items equipped have the same effects array, when remove one effect, it's removes keyword and effect stops work unless still there is second item on. In Skyrim effect are added to item and stops work, when item is removed. If you have on 2 items with same effect still work second item. In FO4 seems effects not work on items as in Skyrim, because effects are off items. Simple example - in skyrim effect are in rendered device and stops working as device takes off. IN FO4 effect are on inventory device and still continue work even if both inventory and rendered devices is take off.

UpD: Correct: Effect keyword array are on effect script. But still some animatiom keywords are stored into inventory device. If 2 items have the same effect, when one effect removes, second item effect stops too.

And there is example what i'm mean:

Hobble dress have bunny hoping animation. What is added by effect. Keywords are stored into inventory device.

Leg cuffs have the same animation and are stored into inventory device the same keywords.

Both can be equiped.

Equip dress and leg cuffs. Animation is still there.

Now remove leg cuffs. Effects remover remove leg animation keywords and update animation.

But as bunny hopping dress still here, but without necessary keywords. Bunny hopping stops. If you put back leg cuffs, animations return, because effects adder returns necessary keywords and animations is restored.

My previous fix wait while rendered devices removes (because you see the wrong animation), then check item equipped keywords - if after removed leg cuffs still are restrained leg cuffs keyword from dress, it's return back removed keywords and restore animation to right way.

The same for arms animations but there is more different keywords: armbinder, yoke, wrist cuffs, and also there is more animation keywords from torture devices, because this part is more complicated.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Elsidia

[Brokokass]

Hi ! I've just download the mod but I can't find the gags in bodyslide. Is it normal?

Edited November 8, 2021 by Brokokass

[vaultbait]

10 minutes ago, Brokokass said:

Hi ! I've just download the mod but I can't find the gags in bodyslide. Is it normal?

 

Yes, gags don't need to be built in bodyslide since head shape is fairly static/consistent across different characters. If you need to adjust the mesh itself, you can import and export the NIF file for it in Outfit Studio.

[Brokokass]

Thx, I just realised how foolish my question was

[Martok73]

8 hours ago, vaultbait said:

 

If you're removing equipment from NPCs via their ActorContainer interface, make sure to also unequip the UNEQUIP_BEFORE_CLOSING item as that's what removes the effects. Aside from that addition, I agree with the other reply.

 

 

I intentionally discarded the bodyslide files for the plugs in my v1.3.x updates of the FG+HHS conversion for the same exact reason. They seem to look and work fine as long as you don't build them in BodySlide.

 

I'll have to look again for the UNEQUIP BEFORE CLOSING item as I don't remember seeing it in her inventory before. I have also tried both unequipall and removeall console commands to no avail either. I had thought that by completely resetting her with recycleactor would fix her, but that didn't work either. I'll look for the extra item and see if it's there. Or try putting the hobbledress on her again and seeing if the extra item appears.

 

As to the plugs, I assume to get them back to a "pre-bodyslide" state I'll have to copy over the original files from the zip? As opposed to completely reinstalling the entire mod.

[vaultbait]

46 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

I'll have to look again for the UNEQUIP BEFORE CLOSING item as I don't remember seeing it in her inventory before.

 

It will only appear in their inventory after unlocking and unequipping a Devious Device, before closing the ActorContainer.

 

46 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

I have also tried both unequipall and removeall console commands to no avail either.

 

Definitely don't do that, it'll get you into that situation, in fact.

 

46 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

I had thought that by completely resetting her with recycleactor would fix her, but that didn't work either.

 

That would only solve it if it removes spell effects, I think?

 

46 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

I'll look for the extra item and see if it's there.

 

There won't be, it needs to be unequipped before closing the ActorContainer.

 

46 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

Or try putting the hobbledress on her again and seeing if the extra item appears.

 

Yes, that's the usual fix.

 

46 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

As to the plugs, I assume to get them back to a "pre-bodyslide" state I'll have to copy over the original files from the zip? As opposed to completely reinstalling the entire mod.

 

Simply remove the TRI files for plugs could be sufficient, but sure, replacing the NIF files with the originals too can't hurt.

[Martok73]

12 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

It will only appear in their inventory after unlocking and unequipping a Devious Device, before closing the ActorContainer.

 

 

Definitely don't do that, it'll get you into that situation, in fact.

 

 

That would only solve it if it removes spell effects, I think?

 

 

There won't be, it needs to be unequipped before closing the ActorContainer.

 

 

Yes, that's the usual fix.

 

 

Simply remove the TRI files for plugs could be sufficient, but sure, replacing the NIF files with the originals too can't hurt.

 

Ok, so I put the hobble dress back on her and instead of just pulling out of her inventory like I did before, I hit T to uneuqip it before taking it back, and the UNEQUIP BEFORE CLOSING item showed up, so I hit T on that one, then remove the dress from her inventory and that fixed the hobble part. The bell sound must have been removed when I recycled actor on her cause it wasn't there. Turn sound back on in the MCM equipped a bell plug on pc and sound worked, unequipped it from pc and it turned off. So sound seems to be working again.

 

So, with trying what you suggested worked for both the hobble effect and the sound from the plugs, however Cait's mouth is still stuck in the open position like she's wearing a gag but no gag is there, and I did try to put a gag on her again, and then unequip it including the UNEQUIP BEFORE CLOSING item and she is still stuck with an open mouth, so I'm at a loss as to how to get her to close it.

 

Removed the tri files from the plugs folder and replaced the nifs with the originals and that fixed the chain/bell plugs. But after trying several of the outfits that have bodyslide files and finding that alot of them still don't quit fit right even after building them in bodyslide, I am wondering if the FG DD Conversions are still valid or if I need to use different bs files? I'm currently using FG 1.8, haven't updated to 1.85 yet.

[vaultbait]

1 hour ago, Martok73 said:

Cait's mouth is still stuck in the open position like she's wearing a gag but no gag is there, and I did try to put a gag on her again, and then unequip it including the UNEQUIP BEFORE CLOSING item and she is still stuck with an open mouth, so I'm at a loss as to how to get her to close it.

 

It may have been a different sort of gag which left the lingering effect on her? I'm not sure whether they all use identical face morphs.

 

1 hour ago, Martok73 said:

after trying several of the outfits that have bodyslide files and finding that alot of them still don't quit fit right even after building them in bodyslide, I am wondering if the FG DD Conversions are still valid or if I need to use different bs files? I'm currently using FG 1.8, haven't updated to 1.85 yet.

 

They're built for FG 1.75, so should work the same with 1.80 and 1.85. Switching which FG version you're using isn't going to make any difference there (1.75 was the point at which the FG developers froze the set of outfit bones and sliders, so as long as the outfit is made for 1.75 or later it should work with FG 1.75 or later).

 

There is an alternative conversion I've updated which requires High Heels System. It may look better, I don't really know. Some of the dresses have some significant clipping at moderate to extreme slider values, and aren't designed in a way that body zaps will really help. If I get time, I'll try to make the meshes a little more forgiving on those.

[Martok73]

6 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

It may have been a different sort of gag which left the lingering effect on her? I'm not sure whether they all use identical face morphs.

 

 

They're built for FG 1.75, so should work the same with 1.80 and 1.85. Switching which FG version you're using isn't going to make any difference there (1.75 was the point at which the FG developers froze the set of outfit bones and sliders, so as long as the outfit is made for 1.75 or later it should work with FG 1.75 or later).

 

There is an alternative conversion I've updated which requires High Heels System. It may look better, I don't really know. Some of the dresses have some significant clipping at moderate to extreme slider values, and aren't designed in a way that body zaps will really help. If I get time, I'll try to make the meshes a little more forgiving on those.

 

No clue if it was a different gag or not, I honestly thought the only gags I had installed were those added by DD. I had DD 2.0 before I started testing/using the new RC versions. Updated with RC3, then RC7 per the instructions I found in the RC7 post. I've spent the last few days scouring the interwebs trying to find a way to remove "effects" from companions but haven't had any luck so far, was hoping you had an idea on how to do it, and perhaps that would return her face to normal.

 

As for the outfits/bodyslide stuff, most of my females have either an average sized body or a skinny one, I don't have any to my knowledge with a "thicc" physic. Do you happen to have a link for HHS? I found out that the heels that Kimy sells don't work without it, feet remain flat on the ground. Probably read somewhere HHS was required, but honestly can't remember as I've read so much in the last week it's hard to keep it all straight now. I did go back and completely rebuild everything in bodyslide piece by piece so I'm hoping that fixes the clipping issues I was seeing. Will let you know on that front.

 

Any ideas of "fixing" Cait's face morphs are welcome, and a link to HHS would be appreciated... Thank you btw for all of your help thus far, it is much appreciated.

[vaultbait]

2 minutes ago, Martok73 said:

Do you happen to have a link for HHS?

 

Fallout 4 High Heels System

[Martok73]

Ok, so this is what I'm getting after completely rebuilding everything in bodyslide. Hands are disfigured, and I am pretty sure it's the same glitch that happens with the vanilla gloves when ran thru bodyslide. Deleting the tri files may help, or may make worse, not sure, will have to test. The Corsets are adding boots, not sure why that is, and the boots they add have major clipping issues. Couldn't find any corsets to check that didn't have boots attached to them. Some things look fine when wore by themselves, but have clipping when worn with other items that should not interfere. ie restrictive collar is fine alone, but when added with glvoes or corset it has the clipping and texture issues like the pics below. Not sure what to do at this point, have rebuilt files in bodyslide 3 times now, doubt a 4th will make any difference. Also, for some reason when equipping any of the high heels it changes the body from my normal one to an extra skinny one, no clue why that happens, as putting on shoes should not change the look of the body.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Martok73

[Martok73]

All armbinders look like this, and second pic is restrictive collar with what is supposed to be just the black leather corset without the boots, but boots are there even tho  item name says otherwise. Rebuilt everything one final time in bodyslide including my actual body, and still same results, so something fishy with the conversions. Also this is still using the FG DD 1.75 Conversion files. Haven't tried the ones you linked earlier, almost scared to, lol. Deleting the tri files for the gloves didn't change anything, so probably need to take a look at those too.

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Martok73

[Elsidia]

4 hours ago, Martok73 said:

All armbinders look like this,

You have serious problems with skeleton and mod torture devices. When you wear a armbinder torture device apply special animation, what deform arms inside armbinder, that you not see it. In your case arms not deformed, that means torture devices not work or you have illegal skeleton mod on what animation can't apply. I see it in that way. later i will try update how looks arms inside armbinder.

 

UPD: See screenshot:

Spoiler

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Elsidia

[Elsidia]

9 hours ago, vaultbait said:

That would only solve it if it removes spell effects, I think?

If that thing triggers Event OnEffectFinish(Actor akTarget, Actor akCaster) scripts it will remove a hobble animation.

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Elsidia

[izzyknows]

1 hour ago, Elsidia said:

You have serious problems with skeleton and mod torture devices. When you wear a armbinder torture device apply special animation, what deform arms inside armbinder, that you not see it. In your case arms not deformed, that means torture devices not work or you have illegal skeleton mod on what animation can't apply. I see it in that way. later i will try update how looks arms inside armbinder.

 

UPD: See screenshot:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The new version doesn't deform the arms, it just clips the hands.

[Elsidia]

59 minutes ago, izzyknows said:

The new version doesn't deform the arms, it just clips the hands.

Then there is serious problem - forearms still clipping or need increase armbinder size.

[izzyknows]

40 minutes ago, Elsidia said:

Then there is serious problem - forearms still clipping or need increase armbinder size.

That's a problem with Martok73's install. CBBE and VaultBaits's conversions (as far as I know) work just fine.

[ETSubmariner]

Using 3.7, I noticed that the Classic Hobble setting allowed my character to run and sprint. Are there ankle restraints that don't 'chain' the ankles in DD 3.7 or am I misinterpreting Classic Hobble as 'can't run' when in fact is is run all you want? lol

[Martok73]

14 hours ago, izzyknows said:

That's a problem with Martok73's install. CBBE and VaultBaits's conversions (as far as I know) work just fine.

 

I followed the AAF guide exactly and used the files that are linked in that guide to install everything including the skeleton. I also use Fusion Girl 1.80 body, and everything else works just fine. All kinds of sex works, all the torture devices from that mod works fine, the very few animations using them work fine, all my other clothing fits just fine with no clipping. So I have no idea what could be wrong with my install to be honest? Other than I don't use CBBE I use FG. I've rebuilt all DD in bodyslide 4 times including the FG body just to make sure everything was built with the exact same sliders set, and there are still just a couple of the items from DD that are not working as intended. The armbinders, the restrictive gloves, and the restrictive collar with the restrictive corset at the same time. Some items are deformed and clip when used together, some work fine when used by themselves. I do not know what else I can do on my end to fix it honestly, especially when I've built and rebuilt files in bodyslide for both FO4 and Skyrim SE a few hundred times. I even went as far as to open up the black leather restrictive corset in outfit studio and found that it is adding in it's own body over top of the body you have already, so I'm betting that is the issue with it causing deformities when used with any other DD device. The slave heels also have their own body that is overwriting and ignoring the player body completely as well, resulting in a very skinny body when wearing them. From my personal experience in Skyrim these outfits should not contain their own bodies and should only be the outfits themselves and should just be applying to whatever body the player is using when they are run thru bodyslide to be matched to the players current body. I looked at the same clothing in DD Skyrim in outfit studio and non of them have bodies attached to them, they are just outfits, so I'm guessing whoever did the conversions from cbbe to fg included their bodyfiles in the conversion process which then is now causing the issues that I've shown in the screenshots. At least from my knowledge and experience I'm guessing that is what is happening, I know you can't have two bodies fighting for the same control as they will conflict and cause issues...

 

If any of you have any idea as to what I may have missed or "done wrong" in my installation process or building in bodyslide process, or any idea how I can fix this if it is on my end, then please by all means tell me step by step so I can get this fixed and use those assets that are affected by this. I don't want to use slave heels that overwrite my players body and make her a skinny rail, nor use armbinders that clip thru the arms, nor use a collar and corset together that cause weird clipping and texture issues, nor use gloves that are badly deformed with the same bug the vanilla gloves have when they are changed in bodyslide... I am open to just about suggestions as to how to fix this at this point.

[Martok73]

Ok, last ditch effort here, I tried the conversions that vaultbait linked a couple pages back and had some interesting results, some good, some still have issues, but better than previous results. So, here is the Black Leather Restrictive Boots, off, and on, abit strange they look fine in 3rd person but they seem to be replacing the body in 1st person, notice the fingers, not sure what's going on there.

 

 

It is really noticeable when you have the gloves on to match as seen in these 2 pics.

 

 

Those 3 pieces look fine together in 3rd person tho as seen below.

 

 

The armbinder looks abit better, but still has some clipping issues. Much better than before tho, still minor.

 

 

Now here is an odd duck, I've tried every version I could find both on Kimy and via console commands, and they all have this model that include the boots. Black Restrictive Leather Corset. I can't find any of them that do not have the boots included even the ones that don't say anything at all about boots in the name.

 

 

So, vaultbaits conversions seem to have fixed some of the issues, but sadly not all of them. For the most part it is an improvement and the gloves no longer deform the hands, so that's a plus. I only included pics using the leather sets, but the latex ones and other colors have the same results, didn't think it necessary to include pics of all the colors when just one should be fine. All in all vaultbaits conversions are an improvement and only a couple small issues remain now, which to me is a move in the right direction. Hopefully this helps in narrowing down things, as after installing and trying vaultbaits conversions I have absolutely nothing else to try on my end that I can think of. Let me know if I've missed anything, and I hope this helps. Thanks y'all.

[Elsidia]

6 hours ago, Martok73 said:

From my personal experience in Skyrim these outfits should not contain their own bodies

This is Fallout 4, not Skyrim. Skyrim have feet biped slot. As Fallout 4 feet are included into body 32 biped slot.

In Skyrim boots use feet biped slot. When in Fallout 4 if you remove biped slot 32 of body, You will see original feet in air throughout high heels, Any high heels is bugged into Fallout 4 and not work without Body.

This is how boots look without body:

1) player:

Spoiler

2) Follower:

Spoiler

 

[vaultbait]

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

Ok, last ditch effort here, I tried the conversions that vaultbait linked a couple pages back and had some interesting results, some good, some still have issues, but better than previous results. So, here is the Black Leather Restrictive Boots, off, and on, abit strange they look fine in 3rd person but they seem to be replacing the body in 1st person, notice the fingers, not sure what's going on there.

 

The restrictive boots include a replacement base body (by necessity as they use the body slot), though I'm not sure why they're adding hand meshes. The gloves already provide a replacement hand mesh, but it's possible there are two fighting with each other.

 

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

The armbinder looks abit better, but still has some clipping issues. Much better than before tho, still minor.

 

I'll see if they might benefit from a pass with the deform brush in Outfit Studio. Since they're not a full outfit, I can't take advantage of a body zap to hide the arms. Unfortunately, the arm position is applied in-game so it's hard to see clipping for them in the editor.

 

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

I've tried every version I could find both on Kimy and via console commands, and they all have this model that include the boots. Black Restrictive Leather Corset. I can't find any of them that do not have the boots included even the ones that don't say anything at all about boots in the name.

 

That's just how DD has always been as long as I've known it. The restrictive corsets include the restrictive boots as part of the outfit. A new version of those could probably be added excluding the boots, similar to the straitjackets with and without boots.

 

12 hours ago, Martok73 said:

vaultbaits conversions seem to have fixed some of the issues

 

Note that it's really wdaigle's conversion, I merely updated it to work with FG 1.75 or later and made a few minor fixes.

[kziitd]

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

 

I'll see if they might benefit from a pass with the deform brush in Outfit Studio. Since they're not a full outfit, I can't take advantage of a body zap to hide the arms. Unfortunately, the arm position is applied in-game so it's hard to see clipping for them in the editor.

 

Should DD's armbinder deform the character's arm and look like amputation? I've seen similar screenshots, but this person's arm obviously doesn't.