Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Bane Master]

56 minutes ago, Princessity said:

Literally the entire universe will end. And/or your playthrough will die a slow, painful death of save corruption and some features may not function.

"Unable to find Reality.sys - Universe halted"

[Nymra]

1 hour ago, a626943491 said:

It's been long after last time login and I just found that the whole DD series mods had been upgraded to 4.0.Now DD lastest version is required a new game...but I'm tired of starting at the very beginning again.Will there be a critical error,conflict,CTD or something else if I just override the old ones?

 

If I remove the devices on my character and end the active DD quest before I upgrade the mods,will I avoid the possible errors?

 

Thanks.

 

I updated to DD 4.0 on a running game. I experienced no bugs, errors or malfunctions for the time. 

A little bug that occured was not DD 4.0 related.

 

Do you use MO? 

You could just duplicate the profile in question there, then add DD 4.0 to the duplicate profile and play along to see if something bad happens.

 

But sadly, I dont have proof for long term problems... 

The only problem I found with DD 4 so far:

 

- no gag talk skill anymore (breaks  Devious Cidhna quest if you dont have  it from another mod)

- heavy bondage keywords changed (yokes, heavy prisoner chains) which is a problem for example Captured Dreams.

 

 

[LazyBoot]

8 minutes ago, Nymra said:

- no gag talk skill anymore (breaks  Devious Cidhna quest if you dont have  it from another mod)

In what way does it break?

[Blaze69]

2 hours ago, Princessity said:

[...] For the record this is also why we don't offer native beast race or male support. None of our modellers are willing to commit to all the extra work it would require and their time is better spent creating new devices for Devious Devices' "target demographic" than niche variants. For it to ever be a viable option, we would need a dedicated beast race/male device converter on the team who would willingly do all this work (for all devices present and future) without cutting into the development time of female humanoid models. [...]

This is fair and understandable, but since many devices have been converted by other people already, like with Devious Devices For Him for male meshes and Devious Devices - Beast Race Refits (+orcs) for beast (and male) head item meshes, why not include the already-done meshes in the main mod? IMO it's only logical, and I'm sure the authors of those mods would be more than happy to see their male and beast race support become part of the main framework.

 

So, I guess my question is: You don't want to do, fair enough. But since it's done already, why not include it? I really can't see any reason not to do it. It wouldn't even require any script editing or stuff like that, just some dabbling with Armors and ArmorAddons and that's it. Hell, I would be willing to take care of the plugin editing myself if you wanted.

[mangalo]

Could chastity cages be added in DD at some point ?   There are various models out here but having them in the framework would be neat.

[Veladarius]

3 hours ago, Princessity said:

As for devices breaking or preventing transformations, that sounds like a job for a third party mod. It would be possible to create a set of custom silver devices that prevent transformation spells from working. But it is entirely outside the scope of DD core as unfortunately that would involve editing those spells and/or wereworlf/vampire scripts which would create conflicts with vampirism/lycantropy mods.

This is something I have been looking into and even interrupting the base Skyrim parts is a pain in the ass as it is scattered all over the place (as is every other Skyrim quest and major function it seems). Detecting the change to beastform requires checking the player for the change in race, it may be possible to do via the Story Manager and then force the player to revert but blocking Vampire abilities in human form are much more difficult.

[Princessity]

7 minutes ago, Veladarius said:

This is something I have been looking into and even interrupting the base Skyrim parts is a pain in the ass as it is scattered all over the place (as is every other Skyrim quest and major function it seems). Detecting the change to beastform requires checking the player for the change in race, it may be possible to do via the Story Manager and then force the player to revert but blocking Vampire abilities in human form are much more difficult.

Hummmmm...

 

I suppose there is one way to do it cleanly. An OnObjectEquipped event (like the one we have in zadPlayerScript filtering what can and can't be equipped while bound) could be configured to detect the transformation spells getting equipped and immediately unequip them. It wouldn't account for scripted transformations (also scripted hotkeys) and stuff but it would prevent players from manually transforming using the vanilla method.

[Veladarius]

41 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

This is fair and understandable, but since many devices have been converted by other people already, like with Devious Devices For Him for male meshes and Devious Devices - Beast Race Refits (+orcs) for beast (and male) head item meshes, why not include the already-done meshes in the main mod? IMO it's only logical, and I'm sure the authors of those mods would be more than happy to see their male and beast race support become part of the main framework.

 

So, I guess my question is: You don't want to do, fair enough. But since it's done already, why not include it? I really can't see any reason not to do it. It wouldn't even require any script editing or stuff like that, just some dabbling with Armors and ArmorAddons and that's it. Hell, I would be willing to take care of the plugin editing myself if you wanted.

 

34 minutes ago, mangalo said:

Could chastity cages be added in DD at some point ?   There are various models out here but having them in the framework would be neat.

 

First it requires the permission from the makers though I believe most don't have an issue with it but that would have to be checked again.

Second, adding official male support sets a precedence and a male equivalent would be needed for all devices

Third (no offense intended towards the dev team but...) much of the dev team has not been very supportive of male content in DD and have on several occasions disabled features for males in their own mods or in DD (particularly no use of bound animations with bound males). They have not been interested in adding male support.

[Veladarius]

5 minutes ago, Princessity said:

Hummmmm...

 

I suppose there is one way to do it cleanly. An OnObjectEquipped event (like the one we have in zadPlayerScript filtering what can and can't be equipped while bound) could be configured to detect the transformation spells getting equipped and immediately unequip them. It wouldn't account for scripted transformations (also scripted hotkeys) and stuff but it would prevent players from manually transforming using the vanilla method.

I suggested the Story Manager as it may be able to detect the change when it happens via conditions at which time it runs a quest with the functions to return the player to their human form. The event would end up checking every item equipped to see if it met the conditions for it to run while the Story Manager would not. It is a pain in the ass to use but once you figure it out it isn't too difficult to set up. I am still learning the in's and out's of it myself.

[Princessity]

@male support: it's a complicated situation. While yes, assets do exist that we could incorporate, most of those assets are old and unmaintained and as Vel said, the expectation (not just from users, but from ourselves) would be that male support would have to go ALL the way, for old devices, new and future. Otherwise we'd run into the same situation as with crafting and Devious Deviants - old stuff lying around that nobody is dedicated to maintaining and which falls further and further behind with every update and eventually gets deprecated and dropped. So we'd be back to square one in no time.

 

Also, I think the expectations would extend to animations too. Currently our animations are very specifically aimed at female characters and they are meant to be. Changing them to look more unisex would be stifling to design and dull to look at. That goes for AA sets, event idles as well as SL filter animations (which are getting significantly expanded very soon). Who's going to handle that? I don't think our animators are interested and I don't blame them because it would literally double their workload.

 

We are not looking for a partial solution lacking future prospects. In order to implement male/beast support, we'd require perpetual and competent commitment across many aspects of the framework. A part-timer who'd binge a bunch of models up to a certain point and then vanish just wouldn't cut it.

[Nymra]

4 hours ago, LazyBoot said:

In what way does it break?

The Devious Cidhna Quest in the Pirate Ship for example requires gag talk to make the pirates finally remove your gag. 

Without it, the gag skill never is raised and the dialogue with the pirates never changes. 

So you can never get the quest to proceed to the next stage at all.

 

I downgraded back to last DD version for use with Captured Dreams, Devious Cidhna and some other mods.

With Shout like a virgin it worked fine. Slaverun I didnt test yet. 

 

[LazyBoot]

10 minutes ago, Nymra said:

The Devious Cidhna Quest in the Pirate Ship for example requires gag talk to make the pirates finally remove your gag. 

Without it, the gag skill never is raised and the dialogue with the pirates never changes. 

So you can never get the quest to proceed to the next stage at all.

Is it actually looking at the gag talk skill, or is it just that you need to talk while gagged?

If it's the first one, that would require an update. If it's the last one, then you need something to write with and on. (quill, ink, and paper)

[Veladarius]

6 hours ago, Princessity said:

@male support: it's a complicated situation. While yes, assets do exist that we could incorporate, most of those assets are old and unmaintained and as Vel said, the expectation (not just from users, but from ourselves) would be that male support would have to go ALL the way, for old devices, new and future. Otherwise we'd run into the same situation as with crafting and Devious Deviants - old stuff lying around that nobody is dedicated to maintaining and which falls further and further behind with every update and eventually gets deprecated and dropped. So we'd be back to square one in no time.

 

Also, I think the expectations would extend to animations too. Currently our animations are very specifically aimed at female characters and they are meant to be. Changing them to look more unisex would be stifling to design and dull to look at. That goes for AA sets, event idles as well as SL filter animations (which are getting significantly expanded very soon). Who's going to handle that? I don't think our animators are interested and I don't blame them because it would literally double their workload.

 

We are not looking for a partial solution lacking future prospects. In order to implement male/beast support, we'd require perpetual and competent commitment across many aspects of the framework. A part-timer who'd binge a bunch of models up to a certain point and then vanish just wouldn't cut it.

 

It has always been difficult to get and keep animators and modelers, it is an issue that has plagued DD from the start. They would be around for a little while then disappear, sometimes before they had finished what they had been working on. From what I see it is an issue that a lot of mods have, there is an abundance of talented script writers but a lack of modelers and animators willing to commit to a project for any length of time. If DD had them it is likely that a lot of the items that have been recently released would have been made long ago.

[Nymra]

5 hours ago, LazyBoot said:

Is it actually looking at the gag talk skill, or is it just that you need to talk while gagged?

If it's the first one, that would require an update. If it's the last one, then you need something to write with and on. (quill, ink, and paper)

 

I was told it was because of the first one. 
 

Quill, Ink, paper while I am in an armbinder? :-) 

[LazyBoot]

14 minutes ago, Nymra said:

I was told it was because of the first one. 

If you're getting the dialogue "Nope, I can't make out what you're saying. Are these even real words?" and then "[You realize that your gag is impossible to talk through.]"

That's because of the new system and the gag is marked as hard to speak with, at the moment that would mainly be ballgags. In that case you'll need writing tools, though the paper is used up.

 

14 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Quill, Ink, paper while I am in an armbinder? :-) 

Yeah, at the moment that does work while tied. Not sure if they are planning something there.

[Reesewow]

3 hours ago, Nymra said:

Quill, Ink, paper while I am in an armbinder? :-) 

Quill in nostril while paper and ink held by random passerby obviously.

[Princessity]

 

Sigh. I knew we shouldn't have made generic ballgags hard by default. That may have sounded like a great idea on paper but apparently they're super popular...

 

I'll bring it up with the team again. Maybe we'll nerf generic ballgags for the ake of backwards compatibility. Also, heavy restraints are absolutely supposed to prevent writing (although the conditions only look for the HeavyBondage keyword so old custom armbinders that don't have it won't work correctly)

 

@Nymra

Anyways, in the meantime, you can use Cursed Loot's alternative gag-talk instead. If you set it to occur 100% of the time and reduce the chance of NPC actions, it will completely override DDi's native dialogue and you should be able to talk through the ballgag.

[LazyBoot]

34 minutes ago, Princessity said:

Also, heavy restraints are absolutely supposed to prevent writing (although the conditions only look for the HeavyBondage keyword so old custom armbinders that don't have it won't work correctly)

Hmm... I don't see any conditions other than the writing implements when looking at the dialogue in tes5edit. But I'll give it a test ingame when I get home in a few hours.

[Princessity]

...

 

I knew there was something we weren't supposed to forget to do before release...

[Veladarius]

4 minutes ago, Princessity said:

...

 

I knew there was something we weren't supposed to forget to do before release...

I am pretty sure that is true for every mod, I know the list of my things over the years would be rather long.

[DeepBlueFrog]

Is there a reason why GetGenericDeviceByKeyword wouldn't work for Yokes?

 

I am using this line in SD+:

aWornDevice = libs.GetGenericDeviceByKeyword(kwDeviceKeyword)

It returns a None value when I use this keyword: [Keyword <zad_DeviousYoke (1702C531)>]

 

As a side note, it would be nice to add a Debug option to re-register generic devices or to show in the Trace the current list of generic devices.

 

I looked at the code of GetGenericDeviceByKeyword and couldn't see why it would return a None value unless something happened to that generic device registration.

[Veladarius]

1 hour ago, skyrimll said:

Is there a reason why GetGenericDeviceByKeyword wouldn't work for Yokes?

 

I am using this line in SD+:

aWornDevice = libs.GetGenericDeviceByKeyword(kwDeviceKeyword)

It returns a None value when I use this keyword: [Keyword <zad_DeviousYoke (1702C531)>]

 

As a side note, it would be nice to add a Debug option to re-register generic devices or to show in the Trace the current list of generic devices.

 

I looked at the code of GetGenericDeviceByKeyword and couldn't see why it would return a None value unless something happened to that generic device registration.

That function references a form list and it likely was not added to it.

[DeepBlueFrog]

24 minutes ago, Veladarius said:

That function references a form list and it likely was not added to it.

Should I open an issue about it on github?

[Veladarius]

I would think that mentioning the issue here would be fine but if you want to mention it on GitHub as well that would be fine too.

[Lupine00]

On 26/12/2017 at 10:40 PM, Princessity said:

I'm sorry that's you're having problems with DCL and PSQ. But I'm not sure what's you're asking us to do? Perhaps posting your feedback in DCL's and PSQ's respective support topics would be more productive? ^^

Sorry. It was supposed to be in the DCL forum but I posted in the wrong tab.