Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Reesewow]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Does anybody have insight on a hack for this that doesn't involve a modification to XP32 MSE?

"Bouncing armor" is totally based on the author that made it.  The CT77 replacers "bounce" because the author preferred it that way and wasn't interested in doing a non-HDT set or making some armor rigid.

 

If you want to get rid of bouncing metal armor I can think of two proper options.

 

- find a replacer mod that is more to your tastes.  Book of UUNP for instance has both HDT and non-HDT versions of all its huge collection of armor mashups (you can even mix and match, I build everything HDT except for armor with actual solid metal chest pieces).

 

- learn how to use Outfit Studio so you can remove the bounciness yourself.  A quick google search lead me to this post on how to do that specific task https://www.loverslab.com/topic/74330-how-to-remove-hdt-from-armor/?tab=comments#comment-1833178

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Reesewow said:

"Bouncing armor" is totally based on the author that made it.  The CT77 replacers "bounce" because the author preferred it that way and wasn't interested in doing a non-HDT set or making some armor rigid.

 

If you want to get rid of bouncing metal armor I can think of two proper options.

 

- find a replacer mod that is more to your tastes.  Book of UUNP for instance has both HDT and non-HDT versions of all its huge collection of armor mashups (you can even mix and match, I build everything HDT except for armor with actual solid metal chest pieces).

 

- learn how to use Outfit Studio so you can remove the bounciness yourself.  A quick google search lead me to this post on how to do that specific task https://www.loverslab.com/topic/74330-how-to-remove-hdt-from-armor/?tab=comments#comment-1833178

 

In that link, there's a discussion of removing bounce on armor and leaving it on the body, and how this (obviously) causes clipping. Just hacking the armor doesn't really work, unless its an armor where hiding the entire body is fine. Most skimpy armors are not fine for that, and I suspect that's why CT77's UUNP Armor Replacement set has bouncy armor. Book of UUNP is also pretty skimpy, so I'm not sure how it works out - I've used it in the past, but only the HDT models - I just assumed that the non HDT ones would clip, and didn't try them.

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

In that link, there's a discussion of removing bounce on armor and leaving it on the body, and how this (obviously) causes clipping. Just hacking the armor doesn't really work, unless its an armor where hiding the entire body is fine.

Any "chest" armor replaces the entire body.  It doesn't matter how skimpy it is visually, technically the naked body is just chest armor your character wears when nothing else is taking up the slot.  For example the Devious Devices catsuits, even the ones that are transparent, can be built non-HDT and you won't have the breasts clipping out.  Armor that covers the chest without replacing the body is very rare, I think I've tried one bikini mod where the bra was technically not chest armor (like a DD chastity bra).  So if you removed the bounce on say the CT77 Steel armor, despite it being fairly skimpy you would not have any breast clipping (the character's body has been replaced by a non-bounce body when it is equipped).  

 

The only issue you are likely to have mixing HDT and non HDT gear in your game is if you like to use things like HDT piercings while wearing armor, but the devices underneath system solves this for things like DD piercings (hidden while wearing armor instead of floating around).

[Code Serpent]

A sort of tangent for this discussion. What if we used Net Immerse Override to shrink breasts while wearing chastity bras? Similar to how the heels adjust your height when you wear them. This could remove the need for the scripted version, making the mod a bit more stable. It would also mean that not all bras have to be either hdt or non-hdt without causing issues. For example, the default steel Chastity Bra that fully covers the breasts could be non-hdt and use Net Immerse Override to shrink breasts to prevent clipping, while the Aradia Chastity Bra, which doesn't fully cover the brests, could be hdt and wouldn't shrink anything, so that it doesn't look squashed.

[Princessity]

59 minutes ago, IronDusk33 said:

A sort of tangent for this discussion. What if we used Net Immerse Override to shrink breasts while wearing chastity bras? Similar to how the heels adjust your height when you wear them. This could remove the need for the scripted version, making the mod a bit more stable. It would also mean that not all bras have to be either hdt or non-hdt without causing issues. For example, the default steel Chastity Bra that fully covers the breasts could be non-hdt and use Net Immerse Override to shrink breasts to prevent clipping, while the Aradia Chastity Bra, which doesn't fully cover the brests, could be hdt and wouldn't shrink anything, so that it doesn't look squashed.

Is it possible to do that with NIO? Can you explain how? I would absolutely implement that if I knew how.

[Nazzzgul666]

Increasing size via NiO is possible, so decreasing size should too... would totally love that, the bras on most of my characters look always too big.

[Code Serpent]

2 hours ago, Princessity said:

Is it possible to do that with NIO? Can you explain how? I would absolutely implement that if I knew how.

I'm not entirely sure. However, if you look at the restrictive boots mesh, there's a NiStringExtraData object with the data "[{"name":"NPC","pos":[0, 0, 9.0]}]". This changes the "NPC" bone "position" along the z-axis 9 units, ie moving the player up a little bit. So, I think if we replaced "NPC" with "NPC R Breast", and changed "pos":[] to something else, we can set it so that the breasts shrink automatically when this mesh is used on the player. I don't have enough experience with NIO to know what exactly to put in, but it should just be a matter of finding the readme somewhere.

[Code Serpent]

3 hours ago, Princessity said:

Is it possible to do that with NIO? Can you explain how? I would absolutely implement that if I knew how.

Ok, I actually figured this out, kind of. It's actually spelled out on the RaceMenu mod page.

Quote

What are Equippable Transforms? They are essentially additional data that can be attached onto Armor that will apply an NiTransform internally to the skeleton. What would you use this for? Replacing High Heels of course! The transform is also done natively so it's near instant application.

How do you use it? Simple, add an NiStringExtraData named "SDTA" without quotes (Skeleton Data) to your NiTriShape or NiTriStrips of the armor you want to apply it to (You may need to apply to both _0 and _1)

The "String Data" will be a JSON formatted string, here is a sample:
[
{"name":"NPC L Breast","scale":2.0,"pos":[0,0,0],"rot":[0,0,0]},
{"name":"NPC R Breast","scale":2.0,"pos":[0,0,0],"rot":[0,0,0]}
]
The "name" field is the name of the node you are transforming
The "pos" field is a relative translation of the node you are transforming
The "rot" field is a rotation in degress in euler angles (heading, attitude, bank)

Here is a sample for replacing High Heels
[{"name":"NPC","pos":[0, 0, 5.0]}]
You may need to tweak the units as I just eyeballed it for the particular boots I was using.

This runs off the existing Transform framework that NiOverride provides, so any modifications to particular nodes will stack with these, you can only have one internal equipped node transform (i.e. two pieces of armor cant modify the same node, overwriting will happen and the behavior will most likely be last written or undefined).

I tried this out by adding this string data to the bra meshes, but I wasn't able to actually shrink the breasts. Also, this example string data doesn't seem to actually revert afterwards, so after equipping and unequipping the bra while using the string data above, my character's chest stays scaled up.

[Princessity]

Oh I see, so it's "scale"! I just wanted to know that ^^ Okay, thank you <3 I'll play around with it, maybe we'll put it up for testing in 4.1.

 

I was actually thinking of removing breast compression completely. I had no idea anyone was still using it and the incompatibility with SLIF has been driving me up the wall. But this is a much better idea! n_n If it turns out we can do it via NiO and get rid of the papyrus-side stuff, it would significantly reduce the number of user error reports to sort through.

[Nazzzgul666]

Something completly different. I have to start with a big thanks , and a big sorry  (because i totally forgot to test it earlier although i promised :(). Filters work almost flawless now with creatures and they actually apply. Or was it just by accident that i always got the proper animation? The almost refers to x-somes with more than one creature, there the filter bugs out and... well, not exactly sure what happened, but in essence it seemed like one wolve is eating something, one just standing around, and my character moves her hips through the air.

If there is an easy fix for that and you just didn't think about it i'd be glad, if it would be a lot of work... i guess it could be added to Defeat as well since afaik it's the only mod that triggers them anyways.

[zenris]

So I noticed an option that allows for the rubber gloves to be locked together. Is there a reason why the iorn shackles (wrist cuffs with dangling chains) don't have that same option? Cause it seems like there's plenty of rings/loose chain for a lock to secure them.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, zenris said:

So I noticed an option that allows for the rubber gloves to be locked together. Is there a reason why the iorn shackles (wrist cuffs with dangling chains) don't have that same option? Cause it seems like there's plenty of rings/loose chain for a lock to secure them.

Agree. From a gameplay/immersion perspective, totally makes sense that both wrist and ankle cuffs that don't bind could have this option, even without dangling chains.

[SleepyJim]

4 hours ago, zenris said:

So I noticed an option that allows for the rubber gloves to be locked together. Is there a reason why the iorn shackles (wrist cuffs with dangling chains) don't have that same option? Cause it seems like there's plenty of rings/loose chain for a lock to secure them.

 

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Agree. From a gameplay/immersion perspective, totally makes sense that both wrist and ankle cuffs that don't bind could have this option, even without dangling chains.

 

I've often thought the same thing. It would be great if the leg cuffs with bands at the thighs could be tightly linked to become a "legbinder" for a while, making you hop or shuffle the way hobble skirts do, and the arm cuffs linked into a kind of elbowbinder. It would also be nice if ankle cuffs could have a chain linked to become shackles and if wrist cuffs could be linked to leave you in a bound pose, similar to the way Mord Sif's wrist-binder mod did it, but locked so it can't be broken by swimming, falling and devious events firing etc.

[worik]

Question to the DEV team:

I took the offical DDI version for a ride in Tes5Edit and got a bunch of "could not be resolved" errors and 24 ITMs. (output  messages in the attached *.txt)

 

I don't intend to clean them right now, but I feel better if you could comment on them please?

I assume they are intentional. If so, I suggest you put an explicite note for that on the main mod page.

 

Thank you

*** dives back into the pile of new mods, to be tested today ***

DDI_4.0_T5E.txt

[Princessity]

14 hours ago, zenris said:

So I noticed an option that allows for the rubber gloves to be locked together. Is there a reason why the iorn shackles (wrist cuffs with dangling chains) don't have that same option? Cause it seems like there's plenty of rings/loose chain for a lock to secure them.

This sounds like a bug, probably remnants of some older code. I'll look into it and probably remove it, it doesn't sound like it should work.

[Reesewow]

1 hour ago, Princessity said:

This sounds like a bug, probably remnants of some older code. I'll look into it and probably remove it, it doesn't sound like it should work.

I think the rubber gloves locking together was special functionality from when they were DCL exclusive items (DCL still has a "gloves lock chance" MCM menu toggle). No clue if the option is functional with generic versions of the items.

[cryo]

Escape system feels somewhat off with event sequence. For example, when you try to open lock on device: fail once -> try again -> it says that you unlocked it -> after that you suddenly exhausted and device is still here. Shouldn't that "exhaust check" kick in first?

[HyperonicX]

8 minutes ago, cryo said:

Escape system feels somewhat off with event sequence. For example, when you try to open lock on device: fail once -> try again -> it says that you unlocked it -> after that you suddenly exhausted and device is still here. Shouldn't that "exhaust check" kick in first?

I can attest to this. Happened to me whilst trying to remove a pair of bondage mittens.

[Code Serpent]

One feature I really want to see in the future is some interactions with Beast Forms; werewolves and vampires. i.e. Devices shown on the player when transformed, or devices breaking off when transforming, or devices preventing transformation.

 

Is it possible that we can see something like this in the future?

[Blaze69]

1 hour ago, IronDusk33 said:

One feature I really want to see in the future is some interactions with Beast Forms; werewolves and vampires. i.e. Devices shown on the player when transformed, or devices breaking off when transforming, or devices preventing transformation.

 

Is it possible that we can see something like this in the future?

Considering beast race support for the devices (which only required edits to the headwear meshes to fit the Khajiit/Argonian/Orc head shapes) was never included in the main mod to begin with and had to be done by someone else, I'd say devices being shown while on werewolf or vampire lord form is completely out of the question; can't say I wouldn't be interested in seeing it, but oh, well.

 

As for devices being broken by and/or preventing transformations, I'd say that's a different story, and AFAIK could probably be coded in. Don't know how feasible it is, though.

[Lupine00]

Removed this post because I meant to post it in the DCL forum. This was the wrong place.

[Princessity]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

One little bug, Bound Queen, DCL 6.1, old DD, I had Sarah's items in an owned chest. Later, wearing all the items, I opened the chest,  and of course, there's a duplicate set still in there.

 

It seems the easiest answer is that Sarah items should have a quest no-drop flag on them, so you can't put them in chests?

I saw no mention of this being fixed in 6.2 ... though it might be ... has anyone tried?

 

 

I noticed, with the old DD, that PSQ only stripped one item on transform: leg cuffs. This seems to totally weird and random.

But I don't have any of the tail, or armor changes on, so it might be connected to that.

 

 

Why is it that transforms are stripping devices in the first-place? Is it something to do with swapping to a different body model?

Or is it specifically when PSQ changes armor items? Why then did I lose leg cuffs on transform?

 

It's not that hard to turn off transforms, when doing Bound Queen, once you remember you need to.

 

 

The length of Bound Queen (phase 2) is a bit much for a succubus though, and perhaps a bit much to remain interesting, for anyone.

Better to leave people wanting more than dragging things out until they are bored, I think. Put another way, a requirement to find seven fragments would be plenty.
 

As a succubus, it's hard not to die from starvation while hunting for the diary fragments. If you don't have cached potions before you get trapped, you are probably doomed.

 

It's extremely time consuming (borderline impossible) to raise your satiation through oral alone, and if you get gagged, you're probably dead (though DCL will let you turn off gags).

Survival chances depend on what other mods you have in.

Eager NPCs seems super-dumb and lets you have penetration while wearing the chastity gear, which nets you meaningful gains in satiation, but its cheating to exploit that bug.

 

I guess you can not start the quest, but when it works right, and you're on a race against the clock to get all the fragments before you starve to death... And you're debuffed serverely, due to hunger at the end, it's quite engaging. It's just a bit random. It's possible to do a whole dungeon and get  no fragment drops, sometimes, or do something as long as Mzulft, and only get one.

I'm sorry that's you're having problems with DCL and PSQ. But I'm not sure what's you're asking us to do? Perhaps posting your feedback in DCL's and PSQ's respective support topics would be more productive? ^^

[Princessity]

On 23/12/2017 at 11:12 AM, cryo said:

Escape system feels somewhat off with event sequence. For example, when you try to open lock on device: fail once -> try again -> it says that you unlocked it -> after that you suddenly exhausted and device is still here. Shouldn't that "exhaust check" kick in first?

Thank you, we'll investigate it.

On 22/12/2017 at 10:04 AM, worik said:

Question to the DEV team:

I took the offical DDI version for a ride in Tes5Edit and got a bunch of "could not be resolved" errors and 24 ITMs. (output  messages in the attached *.txt)

 

I don't intend to clean them right now, but I feel better if you could comment on them please?

I assume they are intentional. If so, I suggest you put an explicite note for that on the main mod page.

 

Thank you

*** dives back into the pile of new mods, to be tested today ***

DDI_4.0_T5E.txt

Our bad, we did clean the esms a while ago but some of the recent changes and merges must have left some faulty records. It is harmless and does not on its own warrant a hotfix but we'll run cleaning on the 4.1.0 development version when it goes up.

On 23/12/2017 at 9:05 PM, IronDusk33 said:

One feature I really want to see in the future is some interactions with Beast Forms; werewolves and vampires. i.e. Devices shown on the player when transformed, or devices breaking off when transforming, or devices preventing transformation.

 

Is it possible that we can see something like this in the future?

We are probably never going to render devices on creature models (as it would significantly increase our workload while offering only very niche benefits that only a minority of users would appreciate or even get to see at all).

 

For the record this is also why we don't offer native beast race or male support. None of our modellers are willing to commit to all the extra work it would require and their time is better spent creating new devices for Devious Devices' "target demographic" than niche variants. For it to ever be a viable option, we would need a dedicated beast race/male device converter on the team who would willingly do all this work (for all devices present and future) without cutting into the development time of female humanoid models.

 

As for devices breaking or preventing transformations, that sounds like a job for a third party mod. It would be possible to create a set of custom silver devices that prevent transformation spells from working. But it is entirely outside the scope of DD core as unfortunately that would involve editing those spells and/or wereworlf/vampire scripts which would create conflicts with vampirism/lycantropy mods.

[a626943491]

It's been long after last time login and I just found that the whole DD series mods had been upgraded to 4.0.Now DD lastest version is required a new game...but I'm tired of starting at the very beginning again.Will there be a critical error,conflict,CTD or something else if I just override the old ones?

 

If I remove the devices on my character and end the active DD quest before I upgrade the mods,will I avoid the possible errors?

 

Thanks.

[Princessity]

9 minutes ago, a626943491 said:

It's been long after last time login and I just found that the whole DD series mods had been upgraded to 4.0.Now DD lastest version is required a new game...but I'm tired of starting at the very beginning again.Will there be a critical error,conflict,CTD or something else if I just override the old ones?

 

If I remove the devices on my character and end the active DD quest before I upgrade the mods,will I avoid the possible errors?

 

Thanks.

Literally the entire universe will end. And/or your playthrough will die a slow, painful death of save corruption and some features may not function.