Wyrade Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 An auto-consumption on looting would be nice then, as it would be rather obvious without it - the fake potion would be in a different stack than the normal one. An alternative would be to modify the original potions if it's doable, with mcm configurable chance of actually triggering the trap effect. Another alternative is to make SkoomaWhore as a soft dependency - it adds new potions called brews. (Not sure about vanilla skyrim; my normal potions heal overtime, and brews heal instantly, but are addictive (drug withdrawal effect after enough), and taking two potions within 5 sec is supposed to be ineffective, only one of them (the last one?) being active - this doesn't function as I would like though, but I'm not sure I have the knowledge to modify it properly; I would like if i really could only take one potion per 5 sec with effect, because as it is now i can spam the brews. Though it's decent as it is now.) Brews spawn to npcs, but trap layer could place them easily if needed - and if every brew is trapped which triggers at a configurable chance, you would take it anyway, as it is generally better than overtime heal. Depends on your skoomawhore setting too though, about how fast you get addicted. Possibly a combination of these. Also I'm still hoping the effects described in devious magic will be integrated to this mod. Possibly as potion effects, rune traps and spellcasting soulgem traps? I was actually thinking that the potions ending up in a different stack would be absolutely fine. You still wouldn't know which stack was which as they would be identical. The only way you would really know is if you could remember the specific number in the good stack...but I know I would never be able to remember that. It would also provide a mechanic for being able to recognise bad potions if you spent enough time checking them. I think that is fine, I don't really like reliance on random numbers for traps. I think everything should be avoidable if you have a keen eye! Wouldn't one of the stacks be significantly higher? Say I have a stack of 20-30 normal potion and a stack of 5 trapped ones - if this would be a pattern to all potion types, it would be obvious. And there are mods that modify the number of potions available, like ASIS if set to give npcs potions. I have a relatively good memory, i don't think i would forget which was which if it was obvious, I would most likely only use them deliberately or accidentally misclicking. Not that they would necessarily be obvious, but if they are for some reason, I would like an option to actually trigger them without meaning them to. And trapping only the skoomawhore brews with an adjustable chance to trigger is still an option, while the normal pot traps would be in different stacks. Or something. There might also be an issue with sorting mods that rename potions, though I don't believe you should be the one to handle that, it sounds way too much extra work for relatively little benefits. I mostly only mentioned this to bring up the idea/issue, so you could consider it from more points of view. Also, potions of healing and ruined books might be decent trap triggers. They tend to get scattered about due to physics and you either go pick them up or ignore them and walk over em. One of the things I thought about doing was creating some potions that looked like a healing potion and was named the same as a healing potion (or any other beneficial potion) but actually it would trigger something bad when consumed as well such as fitting a devious device or spawning a new foe. Something along those lines I was actually just thinking of them as a trigger - you get the potion but the trap fires when you pick it up, same as with the coin purses. But actual cursed potions would be fun too Yeah, actually implementing both would be good too.
Guest Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 I was actually just thinking of them as a trigger - you get the potion but the trap fires when you pick it up, same as with the coin purses. But actual cursed potions would be fun too I could do a simple trigger but thought it would be far more fun if the effect happened just when you really didn't want it to! Wouldn't one of the stacks be significantly higher? Say I have a stack of 20-30 normal potion and a stack of 5 trapped ones - if this would be a pattern to all potion types, it would be obvious. And there are mods that modify the number of potions available, like ASIS if set to give npcs potions. I have a relatively good memory, i don't think i would forget which was which if it was obvious, I would most likely only use them deliberately or accidentally misclicking. Not that they would necessarily be obvious, but if they are for some reason, I would like an option to actually trigger them without meaning them to. And trapping only the skoomawhore brews with an adjustable chance to trigger is still an option, while the normal pot traps would be in different stacks. Or something. There might also be an issue with sorting mods that rename potions, though I don't believe you should be the one to handle that, it sounds way too much extra work for relatively little benefits. I mostly only mentioned this to bring up the idea/issue, so you could consider it from more points of view. I guess it depends on how you play. I use a weight mod so my character can't carry huge numbers of potions. Also, as you progress through dungeons, your available potions will decrease so the stacks will become similar...and then there's the point where you run out of potions and stumble across an innocent looking mega health potion just when you need it... I'm not trying to catch people out all the time and if someone wants to go to the trouble of systematically organising their inventory to rout out the bad potions then that is a perfectly acceptable way to avoid the traps. In fact I want you to look at a potion suspiciously and go "hang on a moment, this is a bad potion!" because that is an achievement in itself! I'm quite happy that 99% of my traps will be seen and avoided...but you will make a mistake eventually and I much prefer that everything is down to your own skill rather than to a RNG system.
tuxagent7 Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 I was actually just thinking of them as a trigger - you get the potion but the trap fires when you pick it up, same as with the coin purses. But actual cursed potions would be fun too I could do a simple trigger but thought it would be far more fun if the effect happened just when you really didn't want it to! It would be different from the others traps if the effect happened when you want to use the potion I like it better when you drink it.....BAM ! Cursed effect Edit : It is like Brew potion from skooma whore, i try to avoid them but keep 2-3 in my bag if i have to use them because im in trouble, i use them and my addiction go up a little. I think it would be the same for these potions traps....use them and get a boost but at your own risk ...
Guest Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 It would be different from the others traps if the effect happened when you want to use the potion I like it better when you drink it.....BAM ! Cursed effect Edit : It is like Brew potion from skooma whore, i try to avoid them but keep 2-3 in my bag if i have to use them because im in trouble, i use them and my addiction go up a little. I think it would be the same for these potions traps....use them and get a boost but at your own risk ... Yep, that's how I think it should work. You drink it and the spell takes effect. It actually seems to work quite well as the potion looks identical and even has the same magical properties as the real potion. The only thing that gives it away is that it goes into its own stack in your inventory. Just playing around with getting the placement system setup.
Wayward1 Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 I have a problem with the "Enfeebling" effect staying on my character after it has worn off / vanished from the Magical Effects list. Is this a known bug? I've been reloading to a previous save to avoid it. Otherwise, really enjoying this mod. Thank you
Guest Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 I have a problem with the "Enfeebling" effect staying on my character after it has worn off / vanished from the Magical Effects list. Is this a known bug? I've been reloading to a previous save to avoid it. Otherwise, really enjoying this mod. Thank you Very strange....it shouldn't be able to stay applied as it is using the spell system (which is why I made it a spell). It should dispel any effects after the Device Devices timeout that you set in the MCM. If the Devious Device has been removed then the spell should have been dispelled, and if it isn't showing in the active magic effects then it also should of been dispelled. Very odd!
Wayward1 Posted June 4, 2017 Posted June 4, 2017 I have a problem with the "Enfeebling" effect staying on my character after it has worn off / vanished from the Magical Effects list. Is this a known bug? I've been reloading to a previous save to avoid it. Otherwise, really enjoying this mod. Thank you Very strange....it shouldn't be able to stay applied as it is using the spell system (which is why I made it a spell). It should dispel any effects after the Device Devices timeout that you set in the MCM. If the Devious Device has been removed then the spell should have been dispelled, and if it isn't showing in the active magic effects then it also should of been dispelled. Very odd! I agree! The magicka / stamina effects go away correctly, but the character's combat skill-trees stay stuck at absurd negative values -- like -283,603. Seems to only effect Two-Handed, Blocking, and Archery skills. Edit: I tried a bunch of things to troubleshoot, but no luck. Removespell through the console couldn't find an active effect, resetting the skill via console did nothing but change the negative values a tiny portion, and removeitem found nothing hidden / stuck. This is a repeatable glitch for me, but obviously could also be linked to my other mods somehow. If anyone runs into this and finds a solution, please share
Rowan. Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 - Added Magical Blindfold of Feebleness which will reduce your archery skills as well as your overall damage ability Can we give the manly man of manliness (gender-neutral) award to whoever tries to play an archer blindfolded?
JuliusXX Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 I have a problem with the "Enfeebling" effect staying on my character after it has worn off / vanished from the Magical Effects list. Is this a known bug? I've been reloading to a previous save to avoid it. Otherwise, really enjoying this mod. Thank you Very strange....it shouldn't be able to stay applied as it is using the spell system (which is why I made it a spell). It should dispel any effects after the Device Devices timeout that you set in the MCM. If the Devious Device has been removed then the spell should have been dispelled, and if it isn't showing in the active magic effects then it also should of been dispelled. Very odd! I've had this once. In my case I think it might have happened when my character died and the game reloaded.
Guest Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 I have a problem with the "Enfeebling" effect staying on my character after it has worn off / vanished from the Magical Effects list. Is this a known bug? I've been reloading to a previous save to avoid it. Otherwise, really enjoying this mod. Thank you Very strange....it shouldn't be able to stay applied as it is using the spell system (which is why I made it a spell). It should dispel any effects after the Device Devices timeout that you set in the MCM. If the Devious Device has been removed then the spell should have been dispelled, and if it isn't showing in the active magic effects then it also should of been dispelled. Very odd! I agree! The magicka / stamina effects go away correctly, but the character's combat skill-trees stay stuck at absurd negative values -- like -283,603. Seems to only effect Two-Handed, Blocking, and Archery skills. Edit: I tried a bunch of things to troubleshoot, but no luck. Removespell through the console couldn't find an active effect, resetting the skill via console did nothing but change the negative values a tiny portion, and removeitem found nothing hidden / stuck. This is a repeatable glitch for me, but obviously could also be linked to my other mods somehow. If anyone runs into this and finds a solution, please share Actually it seems to have happened in my game too. I've got minus figures for a lot of skills...however if you actually click into that particular skill tree then it shows the correct value. I think it is just a Skyrim bug as i have a sneak skill of -32,000 or something yet I can still sneak just as well and when I click into the tree to see the perks it shows my sneak skill at 38 - Added Magical Blindfold of Feebleness which will reduce your archery skills as well as your overall damage ability Can we give the manly man of manliness (gender-neutral) award to whoever tries to play an archer blindfolded? Absolutely I have a problem with the "Enfeebling" effect staying on my character after it has worn off / vanished from the Magical Effects list. Is this a known bug? I've been reloading to a previous save to avoid it. Otherwise, really enjoying this mod. Thank you Very strange....it shouldn't be able to stay applied as it is using the spell system (which is why I made it a spell). It should dispel any effects after the Device Devices timeout that you set in the MCM. If the Devious Device has been removed then the spell should have been dispelled, and if it isn't showing in the active magic effects then it also should of been dispelled. Very odd! I've had this once. In my case I think it might have happened when my character died and the game reloaded. It's really strange but I don't think it actually means your skill is that amount.
Wayward1 Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 It seems to have happened in my game too. I've got minus figures for a lot of skills...however if you actually click into that particular skill tree then it shows the correct value. I think it is just a Skyrim bug as i have a sneak skill of -32,000 or something yet I can still sneak just as well and when I click into the tree to see the perks it shows my sneak skill at 38 -- I noticed that, as well, but the value is still causing my weapon damage to also be negative--like -100,000! Presently, I'm using it as a role-play opportunity to force my character to become a mage due to this curse that left them too feeble to swing a sword
Guest Posted June 5, 2017 Posted June 5, 2017 It seems to have happened in my game too. I've got minus figures for a lot of skills...however if you actually click into that particular skill tree then it shows the correct value. I think it is just a Skyrim bug as i have a sneak skill of -32,000 or something yet I can still sneak just as well and when I click into the tree to see the perks it shows my sneak skill at 38 -- I noticed that, as well, but the value is still causing my weapon damage to also be negative--like -100,000! Presently, I'm using it as a role-play opportunity to force my character to become a mage due to this curse that left them too feeble to swing a sword I've found a fix for it. Use the console command... player.restoreactorvalue sneak 1000000 just replace sneak with whatever skill you need to reset. I've uploaded a hotfix which should stop it from happening again.
Wayward1 Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 It seems to have happened in my game too. I've got minus figures for a lot of skills...however if you actually click into that particular skill tree then it shows the correct value. I think it is just a Skyrim bug as i have a sneak skill of -32,000 or something yet I can still sneak just as well and when I click into the tree to see the perks it shows my sneak skill at 38 -- I noticed that, as well, but the value is still causing my weapon damage to also be negative--like -100,000! Presently, I'm using it as a role-play opportunity to force my character to become a mage due to this curse that left them too feeble to swing a sword I've found a fix for it. Use the console command... player.restoreactorvalue sneak 1000000 just replace sneak with whatever skill you need to reset. I've uploaded a hotfix which should stop it from happening again. Awesome! Thanks for the quick fix! You rock
legraf Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 Lightfoot perk will not effect these traps which is very much by design (although I could add an MCM option to toggle that feature on/off). I really wanted to make dungeons dangerous again. Lightfoot perk always seemed, for me anyway, to remove an interesting and exciting part of the game where you had to be aware of your surroundings rather than just stomping through without a care in the world! This is excellent - I really dislike having to take Lightfoot in order to get the higher Sneak perks. If I miss seeing a pressure plate then, by golly, I should be triggering it when I step on it. So, thanks! One other thought: I am still finding traps being set in shops and so on, but very few... I have the impression, untested and unexamined, that the trap layer is getting a head start, before the "trappable area" check is getting around to declaring a location off-limits. If this is so - and maybe it's just something stuck in my save, since I tried a (hopefully) clean save but not a new game - could the trap layer be deliberately "off" until the trappable-area-check says "OK, go"? Either with a built-in delay (not as good), or checking a flag that is set when the check is complete (and reset when one goes outdoors)?
alaunus01 Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 [...] One other thought: I am still finding traps being set in shops and so on, but very few... I have the impression, untested and unexamined, that the trap layer is getting a head start, before the "trappable area" check is getting around to declaring a location off-limits. If this is so - and maybe it's just something stuck in my save, since I tried a (hopefully) clean save but not a new game - could the trap layer be deliberately "off" until the trappable-area-check says "OK, go"? Either with a built-in delay (not as good), or checking a flag that is set when the check is complete (and reset when one goes outdoors)? Could also be one of those poor orphaned traplayers jim mentioned a couple posts ago. Unless those only happen on manual override. For debugging purposes you could try to prid the traplayer npc and try to move there? ------- In addition I finally managed to toy around with manual override for a bit and noticed that when the traplayer produces a critical failure when moving to a waypoint and tries to reset himself he does not respawn because obviously it's not a cell flagged for traps.... shutdown Which leads to my follow-up question. Does the traplayer spawn on a fixed position inside a cell or does he have 'options'? On a further note: During that testing I triggered a trap in windhelms palace of the kings and everything went bonkers. My followers and all the NPCs inside switched to murder and mayhem mode and happily sliced each other to pieces.
Guest Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 Awesome! Thanks for the quick fix! You rock No worries, I will be doing a bit more work on it to make sure it all works as planned...but the current fix should be good enough for the moment. This is excellent - I really dislike having to take Lightfoot in order to get the higher Sneak perks. If I miss seeing a pressure plate then, by golly, I should be triggering it when I step on it. So, thanks! One other thought: I am still finding traps being set in shops and so on, but very few... I have the impression, untested and unexamined, that the trap layer is getting a head start, before the "trappable area" check is getting around to declaring a location off-limits. If this is so - and maybe it's just something stuck in my save, since I tried a (hopefully) clean save but not a new game - could the trap layer be deliberately "off" until the trappable-area-check says "OK, go"? Either with a built-in delay (not as good), or checking a flag that is set when the check is complete (and reset when one goes outdoors)? There is a possibility that the trap layer may appear and could possibly lay a trap before the local area has been checked to see if it should be trappable. I shall have a further look into it to see if I can prevent this from being a possibility. Could also be one of those poor orphaned traplayers jim mentioned a couple posts ago. Unless those only happen on manual override. For debugging purposes you could try to prid the traplayer npc and try to move there? ------- In addition I finally managed to toy around with manual override for a bit and noticed that when the traplayer produces a critical failure when moving to a waypoint and tries to reset himself he does not respawn because obviously it's not a cell flagged for traps.... shutdown Which leads to my follow-up question. Does the traplayer spawn on a fixed position inside a cell or does he have 'options'? On a further note: During that testing I triggered a trap in windhelms palace of the kings and everything went bonkers. My followers and all the NPCs inside switched to murder and mayhem mode and happily sliced each other to pieces. It is possible to get orphaned trap layers, although they are supposed to be deleted on quest end...however that doesn't always seem to happen straight away. In the last hotfix I did include an updated script (which I forgot about) for the TrapLayer which ensures their Alpha transparency is set when their 3D model is loaded and also it checks to see if the trap laying quest is running and to delete itself if it isn't. This should clear up and orphaned trap layers. The manual override is a bit buggy. I'm not sure if I will let it stay in as it can cause lots of problems....but we'll see. The trap layer always begins at the player location to ensure traps are laid in front of them. I did experiment with having the trap layer start at a random waypoint but iust seemed to work better if the trap layer started with the player.
alaunus01 Posted June 6, 2017 Posted June 6, 2017 [...] The manual override is a bit buggy. I'm not sure if I will let it stay in as it can cause lots of problems....but we'll see. The trap layer always begins at the player location to ensure traps are laid in front of them. I did experiment with having the trap layer start at a random waypoint but iust seemed to work better if the trap layer started with the player. The way I thought about it the manual override only should supplement the few cells where you would expect traps and the clearable area trigger doesn't catch it. If it works well enough for those instances you should be golden. If weird shit happens because 'someone' triggers override b-1 in 'every' possible cell you could claim "I don't fix user errors". And with the trap layer spawning in front of the player you don't need to address the critical failure shutdown either. Because the sensible player simply could retrigger the override once he gets out of the already trapped area and probably avoid the failure waypoint that way.
Guest Posted June 7, 2017 Posted June 7, 2017 The way I thought about it the manual override only should supplement the few cells where you would expect traps and the clearable area trigger doesn't catch it. If it works well enough for those instances you should be golden. If weird shit happens because 'someone' triggers override b-1 in 'every' possible cell you could claim "I don't fix user errors". And with the trap layer spawning in front of the player you don't need to address the critical failure shutdown either. Because the sensible player simply could retrigger the override once he gets out of the already trapped area and probably avoid the failure waypoint that way. It seems to be behaving itself at the moment....or though I did bork my save game completely when changing a script. For some reason the it wouldn't update with a removed variable and killed the entire TrapLayer quest! Loaded a new game and all is well so far! There are a few scripting issues with the override but nothing that can't be overcome.
JR42 Posted June 8, 2017 Posted June 8, 2017 Hi Jim, Great job on this mod! Even on Nexus I couldn't really find mods that add new traps - most mods just slightly adjust the already existing ones -, so it sounds like creating something like this must have taken a lot of skill. I noticed some issues about spawned enemies, and have an idea for a potential fix. When I tried the mod with enemies and events enabled, at 3 different locations the enemies I encountered that were spawned by this mod were extremely overpowered. Not "this is kinda challenging" level, but "after reloading 5 times and using everything I have I almost managed to barely scratch 10% off their health bar before dying" level. For comparison, the normal/vanilla monsters in the same dungeons posed no serious threat to the same character. I guess this is not intended, and I guess this is not something you experience when you test the mod on your setup. After digging around with TES5Edit I have a theory that could explain why, and how it could be fixed: Some commonly used vanilla mods like "SkyTEST - Realistic Animals and Predators" (that make some very sensible changes like making animals appropriately fear fire, etc) also affect some monster stats and, in particular, some NPC min level. For example, mammoths are strong, so while most enemies scale to the player level (a level 10 player would encounter level 10 bandits, and a level 20 player would encounter level 20 bandits, etc), a level 10 player can encounter level 50 mammoths because mammoths can be set to be never weaker than that. Many reasonable and widely used mods like the realistic animals one, as well as USLEEP, High Level Enemies, etc adjust some creature records in this way. This generally provides a nice realistic and immersive experience where low level players cannot just mindlessly attack anything and expect it to be always a fair fight (low-level characters have no chance against e.g. a mammoth), but at the same time there are plenty of appropriately scaled enemies they can defeat (e.g. bandits). I think the problem arises when the player goes into a dungeon filled with appropriately scaled enemies (e.g. bandits), and the trap layer mod kicks in and decides to spawn a monster by saying e.g. "we need a chaurus here", while another mod says that chaurus are in fact very strong. Then the player is screwed (and not in a good way), as the location that was supposed to be filled with enemies that the player can clear out now also contains some completely overpowered ones that the player can not. I know it is possible to just disable enemy spawns and events, but that way people using such popular vanilla mods would be missing out on some of your content, which would be unfortunate, especially if you're planning to add more great stuff. I'm speculating a bit here, but possible solutions: 1) When deciding what enemy to spawn, compare the player level with the min level of the enemies you are considering spawning. Restrict the types of enemies that spawn to ones whose min level is lower than the current player level. If this is possible, it might be the simplest and cleanest fix. 2) Whenever the trap laying script decides to spawn an enemy, scale it immediately after spawning according to the player level (for example using fLeveledActorMultMedium or fLeveledActorMultHard ). Might also have to adjust enemy health/stamina/magicka and skills if going this route. 3) Create new records for the enemies your mod intends to spawn. These could be simply direct copies of vanilla enemies (e.g. chaurus), the difference being that the chaurus your mod spawns would no longer be affected by other mods adjusting the vanilla chaurus record (as other mods would not adjust the Traps-and-Pitfalls-Chaurus entry). So your chaurus will be exactly as strong as you intend it to be. This would be the dirty brute force approach. Sorry for the long essay, and thanks for reading.
Guest Posted June 8, 2017 Posted June 8, 2017 Hi Jim, Great job on this mod! Even on Nexus I couldn't really find mods that add new traps - most mods just slightly adjust the already existing ones -, so it sounds like creating something like this must have taken a lot of skill. I noticed some issues about spawned enemies, and have an idea for a potential fix. When I tried the mod with enemies and events enabled, at 3 different locations the enemies I encountered that were spawned by this mod were extremely overpowered. Not "this is kinda challenging" level, but "after reloading 5 times and using everything I have I almost managed to barely scratch 10% off their health bar before dying" level. For comparison, the normal/vanilla monsters in the same dungeons posed no serious threat to the same character. I guess this is not intended, and I guess this is not something you experience when you test the mod on your setup. After digging around with TES5Edit I have a theory that could explain why, and how it could be fixed: Some commonly used vanilla mods like "SkyTEST - Realistic Animals and Predators" (that make some very sensible changes like making animals appropriately fear fire, etc) also affect some monster stats and, in particular, some NPC min level. For example, mammoths are strong, so while most enemies scale to the player level (a level 10 player would encounter level 10 bandits, and a level 20 player would encounter level 20 bandits, etc), a level 10 player can encounter level 50 mammoths because mammoths can be set to be never weaker than that. Many reasonable and widely used mods like the realistic animals one, as well as USLEEP, High Level Enemies, etc adjust some creature records in this way. This generally provides a nice realistic and immersive experience where low level players cannot just mindlessly attack anything and expect it to be always a fair fight (low-level characters have no chance against e.g. a mammoth), but at the same time there are plenty of appropriately scaled enemies they can defeat (e.g. bandits). I think the problem arises when the player goes into a dungeon filled with appropriately scaled enemies (e.g. bandits), and the trap layer mod kicks in and decides to spawn a monster by saying e.g. "we need a chaurus here", while another mod says that chaurus are in fact very strong. Then the player is screwed (and not in a good way), as the location that was supposed to be filled with enemies that the player can clear out now also contains some completely overpowered ones that the player can not. I know it is possible to just disable enemy spawns and events, but that way people using such popular vanilla mods would be missing out on some of your content, which would be unfortunate, especially if you're planning to add more great stuff. I'm speculating a bit here, but possible solutions: 1) When deciding what enemy to spawn, compare the player level with the min level of the enemies you are considering spawning. Restrict the types of enemies that spawn to ones whose min level is lower than the current player level. If this is possible, it might be the simplest and cleanest fix. 2) Whenever the trap laying script decides to spawn an enemy, scale it immediately after spawning according to the player level (for example using fLeveledActorMultMedium or fLeveledActorMultHard ). Might also have to adjust enemy health/stamina/magicka and skills if going this route. 3) Create new records for the enemies your mod intends to spawn. These could be simply direct copies of vanilla enemies (e.g. chaurus), the difference being that the chaurus your mod spawns would no longer be affected by other mods adjusting the vanilla chaurus record (as other mods would not adjust the Traps-and-Pitfalls-Chaurus entry). So your chaurus will be exactly as strong as you intend it to be. This would be the dirty brute force approach. Sorry for the long essay, and thanks for reading. That is a very good point, I don't use any monster scaling mods so I've never really encountered the problem you are describing. I wonder if it could be solved by putting a difficulty slider in the MCM so you can adjust the max skill level of the mobs that spawn as I can set whether they are Easy, Medium, Hard or Boss at the spawn time. The other posibility is, as you say, check the level of the spawned mob and if they are significantly higher delete them or hobble them somehow...maybe set their health to very low?
vorongren Posted June 8, 2017 Posted June 8, 2017 Hi, I'm still having the -100000 value on some stats after dd traps...does it needs a new game start to fix?
RandomOne Posted June 8, 2017 Posted June 8, 2017 Jim, do you think this would conflict with Traps Make Noise-31799-2-1 and WM Trap Fixes-55100-2-0b? I think these are part of the step install. Don't know if your familiar with them, but was wondering if I should remove them if using your mod. Any thoughts?
JR42 Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 That is a very good point, I don't use any monster scaling mods so I've never really encountered the problem you are describing. I wonder if it could be solved by putting a difficulty slider in the MCM so you can adjust the max skill level of the mobs that spawn as I can set whether they are Easy, Medium, Hard or Boss at the spawn time. The other posibility is, as you say, check the level of the spawned mob and if they are significantly higher delete them or hobble them somehow...maybe set their health to very low? If I understand correctly, enemy spawns in Skyrim work something like this: 1. Mod decides to add an Easy, Medium, Hard or Boss enemy. Let's call this the "category". 2. Skyrim checks the player level, and scales the enemy accordingly: spawned_enemy_level = current_player_level * category_multiplier, where category_multiplier depends on the previous step. In this way, by default, an "Easy" enemy will scale to 1/3 the player's level, a "Medium" enemy scale to 2/3 the player's level, a "Hard" enemy will scale to exactly the player's level, and a "Boss" enemy will scale to 1.25 times the player's level. We're talking about NPC character level, which affects many things including health, stamina and magicka, and I think also damage output. 3. Skyrim checks the entry of the spawned enemy (e.g. "wolf" or "chaurus") to see if it has a minimum level specified. If, after the scaling in the previous step, its level would be lower than the minimum level, it bumps its level up to the minimum level. Even in vanilla Skyrim there are min levels, so this is not a mod-specific thing. However, in vanilla, min levels are generally low and so have less of an impact (iirc the min level for a chaurus in vanilla is only 12). Some popular mods slightly adjust fLeveledActorMultEasy, fLeveledActorMultMedium, fLeveledActorMultHard, and fLeveledActorMultVeryHard, which are used in Step 2 as what I call the category_multiplier. This is not the issue. Some popular mods adjust the min level of certain enemies, which are used in Step 3. I think this is the source of the issue, as the type (chaurus, troll, etc) of some monsters spawned by this mod can be associated with a high min level. For example: Player level is 10. Vanilla scaling. Skeever min level is 1. Troll min level is set by some realistic creatures mod to let's say 30. Trap Layer mod decides to spawn a "Boss Skeever". Then the process goes: 1. "Boss" category, so using fLeveledActorMultVeryHard = 1.25. 2. Prepares to spawn a skeever scaled to 1.25 times the player level (10), so 1.25*10=12. 3. The "Skeever" entry has a min level of 1, and 12 meets this minimum, so it stays as 12. --> "Boss Skeever" gets spawned as level 12, which is challenging but clearly beatable by our level 10 player. Trap Layer mod decides to spawn an "Easy Troll". Then the process goes: 1. "Easy" category, so using fLeveledActorMultEasy = 0.33. 2. Prepares to spawn a troll scaled to 0.33 times the player level (10), so 0.33*10=3. 3. The "Troll" entry has a min level of 30, which is not met in the previous step, so now its level gets bumped up to the troll minimum level, which is 30. --> "Easy Troll" gets spawned as level 30 and slaughters our level 10 player. So having an MCM setting to adjust whether the spawned enemies are Easy, Medium, Hard or Boss would affect only Step 2, which is not where the problem is. The problem is that the type of the enemy matters (Skeever or Troll or Chaurus, etc) in Step 3. I'm not very familiar with the creation kit and don't know exactly what is possible, but the ideal solution could be something like this: Let's say your mod decides to place an enemy at a spot. The enemy would be normally a random choice between let's say "Medium Skeever", "Medium Wolf", "Medium Troll" or "Medium Chaurus". Check the current player level, and check the min level of the "Skeever", "Wolf", "Troll" and "Chaurus" entries. Let's say that the min level of "Skeever" and "Wolf" are lower than the current player level, but the min level of "Troll" and "Chaurus" are higher. Then spawn randomly either "Medium Skeever" or "Medium Wolf". I.e. exclude the difficult types of monsters from the pool of potential spawns until the player reaches an appropriately high level. If this is not possible, then I suggest doing a check after spawning any enemy to see if their level is significantly higher than the player's, and if so delete them. Hobbling them by only setting their health low would not affect their damage output, and so they could probably always one-shot kill full health low-level characters, which would not be fun. Thanks for looking into this. It is not just some weird issue with one weird mod, as e.g. the Realistic Animals and Predators mod has over a million downloads on Nexus, and it is just one of many popular mods that adjust min levels. So fixing this could help not just me but probably many others as well.
karlpaws Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 If I understand correctly, enemy spawns in Skyrim work something like this: 1. Mod decides to add an Easy, Medium, Hard or Boss enemy. Let's call this the "category". I don't think it quite works that way as I think locations or spawns are marked easy, medium, etc. This is why some dungeons always spawn low level bandits or some caves always have trolls and never skeevers. The various Wiki pages will list a level range for places based on what is allowed to spawn there. This also factors into the level of random loot found loose or in chests.
JR42 Posted June 9, 2017 Posted June 9, 2017 Yes, there's an additional layer, I just didn't want to overcomplicate the explanation as it was already getting long. There are also min levels for cells (locations). As far as I understand, the way this works is that for the sake of enemy level calculations, what I simply called "current player level" is actually the maximum of two values: the actual player character level, and the min level of the cell the player is in. This is irrelevant when a low-level character is in a low-level dungeon (because the player level is higher than the cell min level) and so doesn't affect the situation discussed above (overpowered enemies spawned by the Trap Layer mod): For comparison, the normal/vanilla monsters in the same dungeons posed no serious threat to the same character.
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