[WIP] Traps, Pitfalls and Dangerous Things

[tuxagent7]

Yup MCM seems to be working right again it saves my setting

 

thanks jim

 

And for those spells...keep em coming We can take it lol

 

Edit : I didnt try new traps yet but i like the ideas

[throwaway219]

Things are looking pretty good with .85.  I used the MCM reset, toggled Trap Layer Active, and used the Reset Quest options and the trap layer is running around and trapping things in the first zone I went to.  No errors in my papyrus logs!

 

However, the trap layer is having some trouble.  The zone I picked was Halted Stream Camp (just north of Whiterun).  The trap layer laid a few throughout the small zone, with a bunch of messages about getting stuck and restarting.  Eventually I found the wisp stuck floating up against the second exit to the map (the one that goes outside to the spiked pit).  It seemed stuck there and kept respawning with a cycle of debug messages about getting stuck.  There was definitely at least one strongbox at its location.  That zone's a little odd because it's clearable but has multiple exits.

 

When I zoned out to the pit trap the notification log rapidly told me "moving to waypoint 4" 5 6 etc then finished and there were no further logs.

 

 

My next zone was North Brittleshin Pass.  When I zoned in it said the zone was trappable.  It said the distance to target was 3469328390482903, "distance to waypoint is huge!  teleporting".  That didn't seem to work, though.  After three cycles of that it said too many critical errors, shutting down.  So good work on the failsafe code

 

From my papyrus logs, these look like the errors with the distance & teleport attempts:

 

 

 

[05/31/2017 - 07:41:41PM] ERROR: Cannot calculate distance between and object and None
stack:
    [ (FF0008E0)].ObjectReference.getDistance() - "<native>" Line ?
    [alias TrapLayer on quest _TAPDungeonTrapLayer (CF038343)]._TAPTrapLayerController.OnUpdate() - "_TAPTrapLayerController.psc" Line 95
[05/31/2017 - 07:41:41PM] ERROR: Cannot calculate distance between and object and None
stack:
    [ (FF0008E0)].ObjectReference.getDistance() - "<native>" Line ?
    [alias TrapLayer on quest _TAPDungeonTrapLayer (CF038343)]._TAPTrapLayerController.OnUpdate() - "_TAPTrapLayerController.psc" Line 99
[05/31/2017 - 07:41:41PM] ERROR: (FF0008E0): cannot be moved to a None object's location.
stack:
    [ (FF0008E0)].ObjectReference.MoveTo() - "<native>" Line ?
    [alias TrapLayer on quest _TAPDungeonTrapLayer (CF038343)]._TAPTrapLayerController.OnUpdate() - "_TAPTrapLayerController.psc" Line 105

 

 

[RandomOne]

v85 is working great for me so far, thanks for your hard work.

[Guest]

Yup MCM seems to be working right again it saves my setting

 

thanks jim

 

And for those spells...keep em coming We can take it lol

 

Edit : I didnt try new traps yet but i like the ideas

 

Yay, and glad you're enjoying it

 

Things are looking pretty good with .85.  I used the MCM reset, toggled Trap Layer Active, and used the Reset Quest options and the trap layer is running around and trapping things in the first zone I went to.  No errors in my papyrus logs!

 

However, the trap layer is having some trouble.  The zone I picked was Halted Stream Camp (just north of Whiterun).  The trap layer laid a few throughout the small zone, with a bunch of messages about getting stuck and restarting.  Eventually I found the wisp stuck floating up against the second exit to the map (the one that goes outside to the spiked pit).  It seemed stuck there and kept respawning with a cycle of debug messages about getting stuck.  There was definitely at least one strongbox at its location.  That zone's a little odd because it's clearable but has multiple exits.

 

When I zoned out to the pit trap the notification log rapidly told me "moving to waypoint 4" 5 6 etc then finished and there were no further logs.

 

 

My next zone was North Brittleshin Pass.  When I zoned in it said the zone was trappable.  It said the distance to target was 3469328390482903, "distance to waypoint is huge!  teleporting".  That didn't seem to work, though.  After three cycles of that it said too many critical errors, shutting down.  So good work on the failsafe code

 

From my papyrus logs, these look like the errors with the distance & teleport attempts:

 

 

 

[05/31/2017 - 07:41:41PM] ERROR: Cannot calculate distance between and object and None
stack:
    [ (FF0008E0)].ObjectReference.getDistance() - "<native>" Line ?
    [alias TrapLayer on quest _TAPDungeonTrapLayer (CF038343)]._TAPTrapLayerController.OnUpdate() - "_TAPTrapLayerController.psc" Line 95
[05/31/2017 - 07:41:41PM] ERROR: Cannot calculate distance between and object and None
stack:
    [ (FF0008E0)].ObjectReference.getDistance() - "<native>" Line ?
    [alias TrapLayer on quest _TAPDungeonTrapLayer (CF038343)]._TAPTrapLayerController.OnUpdate() - "_TAPTrapLayerController.psc" Line 99
[05/31/2017 - 07:41:41PM] ERROR: (FF0008E0): cannot be moved to a None object's location.
stack:
    [ (FF0008E0)].ObjectReference.MoveTo() - "<native>" Line ?
    [alias TrapLayer on quest _TAPDungeonTrapLayer (CF038343)]._TAPTrapLayerController.OnUpdate() - "_TAPTrapLayerController.psc" Line 105

 

 

 

I think the problem is coming from me adding locked items to the waypoint system. For whatever reason the trap layer is prone to falling through the floor when warping to these positions. Maybe some chests have their origin below their actual physical mesh and that is causing the trap layer to end up below the floor.

 

I'll revert back to just door ways in the next update as that never seemed to have many issues. I think I also need to add some checks to make sure the waypoints actually exist and skip any that aren't filled.

 

At least the failsafe worked I think we're almost there on getting the major bugs ironed out.

 

v85 is working great for me so far, thanks for your hard work.

 

Great! Glad you're enjoying it

[JuliusXX]

 

 

I tested the 0.81 and still the trap layer won't start automatically when I enter a trappable area. I have ticked and unticked the Trap Layer several times and also tested the debug options but still no go. I wonder if I have some kind of MCM problem. Is there a console command to activate the Trap Layer outside of MCM?

 

Ah, for some reason the MCM got unassigned from one of the script parameters...not sure how that happened. It is fixed now. You will need to restart the MCM to ensure the script picks up the new changes.

 

I've also added the Arm Cuffs of Weakness which will reduce your 2 handed and blocking skills!

 

 

Yes. That fixed it and the trap layer now activates automatically  .

[firebinder]

It seems the trap layer can still become visable on occasion. I saved while in Grey Pine Goods, quit the game and when I later loaded the save there she was, a two foot tall wisp girl just hanging out in front of Solaf's fireplace. I'm using version .85 and this was a brand new game, just started this morning.

[Guest]

It seems the trap layer can still become visable on occasion. I saved while in Grey Pine Goods, quit the game and when I later loaded the save there she was, a two foot tall wisp girl just hanging out in front of Solaf's fireplace. I'm using version .85 and this was a brand new game, just started this morning.

 

Ah, that is because when you reload the game the trap layer is already spawned so their Alpha setting won't get set correctly. I've added a small script to the Trap Layer Actor which should sort that out.

 

I've also reverted back to just using Doors as waypoints. It works much better with no falling through the floor...at least not in the dungeon I tested

 

Add a bit more error trapping and handling and also fixed an issue where the Reference Alias to the Trap Layer wouldn't get filled in the Trap Layer script...some what strange but referencing it directly using "self" seems to have fixed it and is actually a far better way of doing it.

[PointyWereWulf]

Out of curiosity, can AI trigger these? It'd be fun to be in a dungeon and catch a bandit getting attacked by these traps.

[Wyrade]

Out of curiosity, can AI trigger these? It'd be fun to be in a dungeon and catch a bandit getting attacked by these traps.

 

No they can't afaik.

[sen4mi]

If you are creating new devices, it would be cool if you made some "mixed curse+blessing" items.

 

These would be mostly negative but not entirely (and, to tease, some mostly positive with some negative items).

 

Some of these might be classic [simple] tradeoffs (increased armor but reduced movement speed), others might be classic sexlab gimmicks (for example, a masturbate to heal item which forces a schedule, like maybe minimum one hour maximum two hours between activations, but which also drains magicka and stamina (or maybe one then the other) during any health increases).

[Guest]

Out of curiosity, can AI trigger these? It'd be fun to be in a dungeon and catch a bandit getting attacked by these traps.

 

AI can't trigger the traps. Initially, on one of the earlier builds, they could but it led to complete chaos in dungeons. It was fun the first few times but after a while you realised that the traps were wiping out most of the creatures in the dungeon for you!

 

 

If you are creating new devices, it would be cool if you made some "mixed curse+blessing" items.

 

These would be mostly negative but not entirely (and, to tease, some mostly positive with some negative items).

 

Some of these might be classic [simple] tradeoffs (increased armor but reduced movement speed), others might be classic sexlab gimmicks (for example, a masturbate to heal item which forces a schedule, like maybe minimum one hour maximum two hours between activations, but which also drains magicka and stamina (or maybe one then the other) during any health increases).

 

Those are good ideas, but I'm not quite sure having any positive benefits really suits this mod....but I see where you're going with it. It's worth noting that this mod doesn't create any new devious devices it just applies a spell at the same time as it equips a device (i don't think DDs can be enchanted anyway)

 

****UPDATE TIME****

 

Still battling with some issues with the trap layer getting stuck and then borking completely if warped to a new location. I actually think what is happening is they are warping right into the middle of the waypoint and getting stuck in the geometry and ending up with a distance to waypoint of 0.000000 which just repeated over and over again!

 

I have updated the system so instead of warping there directly the script will spawn a physical marker (acutally a burned book!) using the placeatme command. This command seems to have some ability to place the object close to, but not directly in, the other object and at floor level. The Trap Layer then warps to the location of this marker and it seems more reliable in my test dungeon whereas before the trap layer wouldn't complete.

 

I'll wait to see what feedback I get from you guys/gals to see how successful that is

 

I have also changed the way some trapped objects are placed. I now use a second system which will look for certain commonly appearing objects in dungeons and then spawn items around it. This helps produce much more naturally placed items which don't look too out of place (unlike the strongbox just sitting in the middle of the floor).

 

It is even possible for this system to place the same item next to another item, so you might see 2 urns where usually there would be only one...but you won't know which one is trapped (mwhahahha!). Or you might find a little cluster of coin purses around a loot chest etc etc Plenty of stuff to keep you on your toes even when running through a very familiar dungeon.

[emes]

I have also changed the way some trapped objects are placed. I now use a second system which will look for certain commonly appearing objects in dungeons and then spawn items around it. This helps produce much more naturally placed items which don't look too out of place (unlike the strongbox just sitting in the middle of the floor).

 

It is even possible for this system to place the same item next to another item, so you might see 2 urns where usually there would be only one...but you won't know which one is trapped (mwhahahha!). Or you might find a little cluster of coin purses around a loot chest etc etc Plenty of stuff to keep you on your toes even when running through a very familiar dungeon.

 

Sounds very slick. Previous versions made it really easy to tell which objects were trapped (typically the one right in front of the door!), so this sounds like an excellent solution.

[alaunus01]

Two cents to add:

 

- Given how the trapable forts didn't really work out what about providing a 'trap this cell bitch!' keybind? Like enter dragonsreach, hit key, traplayer traps dragonsreach. Throw in a confirmation window for those of us who suffer from acute fatfingerism and a message 'traplayer is already active' which is displayed even if you disabled the debug messages. Et voila!

[Guest]

 

Sounds very slick. Previous versions made it really easy to tell which objects were trapped (typically the one right in front of the door!), so this sounds like an excellent solution.

 

 

It has indeed even caught me out a few times..."Ooooh a large coin purse....DOH!"

 

Two cents to add:

 

- Given how the trapable forts didn't really work out what about providing a 'trap this cell bitch!' keybind? Like enter dragonsreach, hit key, traplayer traps dragonsreach. Throw in a confirmation window for those of us who suffer from acute fatfingerism and a message 'traplayer is already active' which is displayed even if you disabled the debug messages. Et voila!

 

Good idea. I have added to the new BETA version which you can try out. It seems some what buggy at the moment and I'm not 100% sure why. The MCM works fine and it is registering for and can detect the keypress, but sometimes it just doesn't start the quest.

 

I have also come across an issue where the trap layer will not shut down even after the quest has finished...almost like it has become orphaned from the quest but is still trying to lay traps and spamming messages or the script has become detached from the trap layer and is continuing to run.

[throwaway219]

Suggestion for a trap type if you're willing to add another soft dependency: arousal traps.  Pretty much just:

 

slaUtil.UpdateActorExposure(akActor, 15, "triggered TAP trap")

[throwaway219]

Also, potions of healing and ruined books might be decent trap triggers.  They tend to get scattered about due to physics and you either go pick them up or ignore them and walk over em.

[Guest]

Suggestion for a trap type if you're willing to add another soft dependency: arousal traps.  Pretty much just:

 

slaUtil.UpdateActorExposure(akActor, 15, "triggered TAP trap")

 

I'll have a look into that

 

Also, potions of healing and ruined books might be decent trap triggers.  They tend to get scattered about due to physics and you either go pick them up or ignore them and walk over em.

 

One of the things I thought about doing was creating some potions that looked like a healing potion and was named the same as a healing potion (or any other beneficial potion) but actually it would trigger something bad when consumed as well such as fitting a devious device or spawning a new foe. Something along those lines

[Wyrade]

Also, potions of healing and ruined books might be decent trap triggers.  They tend to get scattered about due to physics and you either go pick them up or ignore them and walk over em.

 

One of the things I thought about doing was creating some potions that looked like a healing potion and was named the same as a healing potion (or any other beneficial potion) but actually it would trigger something bad when consumed as well such as fitting a devious device or spawning a new foe. Something along those lines

 

 

An auto-consumption on looting would be nice then, as it would be rather obvious without it - the fake potion would be in a different stack than the normal one.

 

An alternative would be to modify the original potions if it's doable, with mcm configurable chance of actually triggering the trap effect.

 

Another alternative is to make SkoomaWhore as a soft dependency - it adds new potions called brews. (Not sure about vanilla skyrim; my normal potions heal overtime, and brews heal instantly, but are addictive (drug withdrawal effect after enough), and taking two potions within 5 sec is supposed to be ineffective, only one of them (the last one?) being active - this doesn't function as I would like though, but I'm not sure I have the knowledge to modify it properly; I would like if i really could only take one potion per 5 sec with effect, because as it is now i can spam the brews. Though it's decent as it is now.)

Brews spawn to npcs, but trap layer could place them easily if needed - and if every brew is trapped which triggers at a configurable chance, you would take it anyway, as it is generally better than overtime heal. Depends on your skoomawhore setting too though, about how fast you get addicted.

 

Possibly a combination of these.

 

 

Also I'm still hoping the effects described in devious magic will be integrated to this mod. Possibly as potion effects, rune traps and spellcasting soulgem traps?

[shidiro]

There is a perk in the Sneak tree :  Light Foot--->You won't trigger pressure plates end traps.   

 

I think you need to do it so that it does not work for your traps.

[tuxagent7]

 

Also I'm still hoping the effects described in devious magic will be integrated to this mod. Possibly as potion effects, rune traps and spellcasting soulgem traps?

 

 

 

Yes please

[alaunus01]

There is a perk in the Sneak tree :  Light Foot--->You won't trigger pressure plates end traps.   

 

I think you need to do it so that it does not work for your traps.

 

Keeping in mind that jim wants to publish this mod for the vanilla skyrim audience too I disagree. Light Foot needs to work. Which I actually am not sure it does at the moment. I use ordinator and it's light foot version did not affect this mods traps (at least it did not up until 0.50, haven't really been able to play around with my skyrim lately). Dunno about the original skilltree light foot and I am not going to operate ordinator out of my build just to find out.

 

Two more things to keep in mind:

- light foot only should work while you sneak, and you would be surprised how many traps you can trigger when carelessly wanting to get out of a supposedly cleared dungeon.

- rune traps probably will make their comeback at some point. unless jim decides to limit those to certain effects those could serve your purpose just as well.

 

And don't forget as far as mod development goes jim is currently working at a breakneck pace.

[JelloBiafra]

How about tattoo traps? Something that applies one from your currently available pool of tattoos, like the rape tats mod. Oh and thanks for this great mod, after a 1000 hours of playing Skyrim this combined with a particular set of other devious mods has really spiced up vanilla dungeons.

[Guest]

 

An auto-consumption on looting would be nice then, as it would be rather obvious without it - the fake potion would be in a different stack than the normal one.

An alternative would be to modify the original potions if it's doable, with mcm configurable chance of actually triggering the trap effect.

 

Another alternative is to make SkoomaWhore as a soft dependency - it adds new potions called brews. (Not sure about vanilla skyrim; my normal potions heal overtime, and brews heal instantly, but are addictive (drug withdrawal effect after enough), and taking two potions within 5 sec is supposed to be ineffective, only one of them (the last one?) being active - this doesn't function as I would like though, but I'm not sure I have the knowledge to modify it properly; I would like if i really could only take one potion per 5 sec with effect, because as it is now i can spam the brews. Though it's decent as it is now.)

Brews spawn to npcs, but trap layer could place them easily if needed - and if every brew is trapped which triggers at a configurable chance, you would take it anyway, as it is generally better than overtime heal. Depends on your skoomawhore setting too though, about how fast you get addicted.

 

Possibly a combination of these.

 

 

Also I'm still hoping the effects described in devious magic will be integrated to this mod. Possibly as potion effects, rune traps and spellcasting soulgem traps?

 

 

I was actually thinking that the potions ending up in a different stack would be absolutely fine. You still wouldn't know which stack was which as they would be identical. The only way you would really know is if you could remember the specific number in the good stack...but I know I would never be able to remember that. 

 

It would also provide a mechanic for being able to recognise bad potions if you spent enough time checking them. I think that is fine, I don't really like reliance on random numbers for traps. I think everything should be avoidable if you have a keen eye!

 

Devious magic will almost certainly get combined with this mod...that is the way it is heading anyway, especially with these types of potions.

 

There is a perk in the Sneak tree :  Light Foot--->You won't trigger pressure plates end traps.   

 

I think you need to do it so that it does not work for your traps.

 

Already done Lightfoot perk will not stop you triggering these traps. These traps are magical in nature, rather than physical, and will therefore always trigger! (that's my lore friendly description anyway )

 

 

Yes please

 

Working on it

 

 

Keeping in mind that jim wants to publish this mod for the vanilla skyrim audience too I disagree. Light Foot needs to work. Which I actually am not sure it does at the moment. I use ordinator and it's light foot version did not affect this mods traps (at least it did not up until 0.50, haven't really been able to play around with my skyrim lately). Dunno about the original skilltree light foot and I am not going to operate ordinator out of my build just to find out.

Two more things to keep in mind:

- light foot only should work while you sneak, and you would be surprised how many traps you can trigger when carelessly wanting to get out of a supposedly cleared dungeon.

- rune traps probably will make their comeback at some point. unless jim decides to limit those to certain effects those could serve your purpose just as well.

 

And don't forget as far as mod development goes jim is currently working at a breakneck pace.

 

 

Rune traps are back in...have been for a few versions, but I think there is an issue with the trap layer setting them off and/or not appearing correctly. I shall be checking this out for the next version.

 

Lightfoot perk will not effect these traps which is very much by design (although I could add an MCM option to toggle that feature on/off). I really wanted to make dungeons dangerous again. Lightfoot perk always seemed, for me anyway, to remove an interesting and exciting part of the game where you had to be aware of your surroundings rather than just stomping through without a care in the world!

 

How about tattoo traps? Something that applies one from your currently available pool of tattoos, like the rape tats mod. Oh and thanks for this great mod, after a 1000 hours of playing Skyrim this combined with a particular set of other devious mods has really spiced up vanilla dungeons.

 

hmmm..that sounds interesting. I'll have a look and see if they can be added in easily as a soft option. Is there any real downside to having them? I suppose I could add a few events into Sexist Guards where people will make comments etc based upon tattoos...but I know this can be problematic with soft dependencies as dialogue has fixed conditions etc.

[tuxagent7]

Lightfoot perk will not effect these traps which is very much by design (although I could add an MCM option to toggle that feature on/off). I really wanted to make dungeons dangerous again. Lightfoot perk always seemed, for me anyway, to remove an interesting and exciting part of the game where you had to be aware of your surroundings rather than just stomping through without a care in the world!

 

 

Im with Jim on this, explore the cave, take my time, check for traps, get caught in traps, be in a pickle, getting out of a jam, rinse and repeat with differents traps and events each time.

 

What will happen to my caracter, will she be able to crawl out of the dungeons unscathed, untraumatize ? probably not

[throwaway219]

 

Suggestion for a trap type if you're willing to add another soft dependency: arousal traps.  Pretty much just:

 

slaUtil.UpdateActorExposure(akActor, 15, "triggered TAP trap")

 

I'll have a look into that

 

Also, potions of healing and ruined books might be decent trap triggers.  They tend to get scattered about due to physics and you either go pick them up or ignore them and walk over em.

 

One of the things I thought about doing was creating some potions that looked like a healing potion and was named the same as a healing potion (or any other beneficial potion) but actually it would trigger something bad when consumed as well such as fitting a devious device or spawning a new foe. Something along those lines

 

 

I was actually just thinking of them as a trigger - you get the potion but the trap fires when you pick it up, same as with the coin purses.  But actual cursed potions would be fun too