Blaze69 Posted December 26, 2016 Author Posted December 26, 2016 Yeah, you're right. But putting up ideas for characters doesn't mean they have to go in right away. As for Ko'Maru...he's looking good. The only issue may be that he's described a bit differently depending on the YA and non-YA look, which mostly just relates to his schlong. Though it may not be a problem, since it seems like the base SOS addons are a bit aggressive in assignment to NPCs, so without YA he might just get the right one with no problems. Though maybe it should be a suggestion for the follower plugin once he goes in, to either not use the base three SOS addons, or to disable them for most of the races with YA, especially Khajiit. Otherwise, entries 2 and 3 for Mizuno's journal are done, and I've added most of 4 to it as well - I just need to do the YA/Non-YA parts, along with a bit more. I've also given Mizuno his own document, here. I'm thinking maybe doing two more entries at least. Also, entry 2 now describes Lana a bit, her YA version going off(mostly) this image, nuzzo. Might also do the YA version preset for her in a bit too, though if any similar hair like the image is an option, I'm not sure. Sure, I was just mentioning it. It's just that you don't need to go crazy about adding tons of new characters, at least not for now. Unless you do feel like doing so now, it which case, go ahead . The thing is, Ko'Maru will probably require his own custom schlong, since I'm pretty sure the Snow Leopard textures will be different from the standard Khajiit ones, and thus there would be seams and mismatches if he used one of the standard Khajiit schlongs. My idea was to set up the Sharkmer Sheath schlong so it shows up with Leopard textures and meshes when equipped by a Khajiit, and then manually add it to Ko'Maru through the faction method I mentioned without the need to create a new addon or to enable the Sharkmer schlong to be assigned to Khajiit. This would mean he would get a sheath (and with a fixed size) no matter if you have YA installed or not, which IMO is a good thing, though I'm open to suggestions. Good to hear about the journal, I'll start working on it. Vaynelle's journal works nicely ingame, BTW, though I have to make some edits because some specific characters from MS Word are not available in the game font and show up as empty squares (the long dash and the quotes, IIRC). Nothing important, it works just fine.
Kuroyami Posted December 26, 2016 Posted December 26, 2016 The thing is, Ko'Maru will probably require his own custom schlong, since I'm pretty sure the Snow Leopard textures will be different from the standard Khajiit ones, and thus there would be seams and mismatches if he used one of the standard Khajiit schlongs. My idea was to set up the Sharkmer Sheath schlong so it shows up with Leopard textures and meshes when equipped by a Khajiit, and then manually add it to Ko'Maru through the faction method I mentioned without the need to create a new addon or to enable the Sharkmer schlong to be assigned to Khajiit. This would mean he would get a sheath (and with a fixed size) no matter if you have YA installed or not, which IMO is a good thing, though I'm open to suggestions. Did not exactly think of that, but yeah. Though one slight issue would be his non-YA description, which is for a human schlong, which perhaps the existing Sharkmer Human schlong could be make to work with the Khajiit, and in the non-YA version he'd be assigned that one. Though this would allow it to be used for players using the Khajiit race, which could be a problem. Though it would be only an issue of textures, unless the body textures could be offered as an optional Khajiit texture replacer, which while I'm not sure if they would work for both YA and non-YA setups, they would be recommended if you want to use that option for Khajiit characters.
Blaze69 Posted December 26, 2016 Author Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) Did not exactly think of that, but yeah. Though one slight issue would be his non-YA description, which is for a human schlong, which perhaps the existing Sharkmer Human schlong could be make to work with the Khajiit, and in the non-YA version he'd be assigned that one. Though this would allow it to be used for players using the Khajiit race, which could be a problem. Though it would be only an issue of textures, unless the body textures could be offered as an optional Khajiit texture replacer, which while I'm not sure if they would work for both YA and non-YA setups, they would be recommended if you want to use that option for Khajiit characters. I guess I could tweak both the sheath and the human Sharkmer schlongs to show the proper Leopard meshes and textures when equipped by a Khajiit, and thus have both available for Ko'Maru. The thing is, BadDog will probably create sheath textures for the Leopard, but I don't think textures for the human schlong are planned, and the method I used to create the female sheath textures doesn't work on males due to the mesh shape/placement, so I would have to specifically ask him for those. That's feasible, but still... Anyway, don't worry about the Sharkmer schlong being wrongfully assigned to other Khajiit, that's not gonna happen. What I do is to set up the ArmorAddons so the meshes work when equipped by a Khajiit, but then I don't add Khajiit to SOS' "Compatible Races" list (which is a different thing). That way, I use the faction method to make sure Ko'Maru gets the Sharkmer schlong (in his case properly looking like a Leopard's) even though SOS will never automatically assign it to Khajiit unless manually forced through the MCM menu. In other news, I have though about Mizuno and Ko'Maru, and I have some things to suggest. Ko'Maru is already placed in the room in the Hall of Countenance. I still have to test his AI and the NavMesh I edited and stuff, but it should be mostly fine. I removed the hay and the boxes, and I added some furniture: end tables, some fur rugs, a small table and two chairs, etc., to make it look like it was indeed a storage room prepared as a bedroom kind of in a hurry and thus is not as furnished as the other rooms. There is also a bedroll for Mizuno in one side. I'll try to get some pics as soon as I make sure I didn't break anything. I though of placing a note from Mirabelle addressed to Ko'Maru somewhere in the room where she talks about some (probably unspecified or hinted at at most) recent events, lack of room and the need to temporarily relocate him to the now-furnished storage room in the other hall. Then, there could be another later note where she states that it is better if he stays in that room for convenience reasons as long as he doesn't mind (to explain why is there an empty room for the player in the Hall of Attainment and Ko'Maru doesn't move there). In this second note there could also be a mention about the bedroll and Mizuno actually sleeping there. Something along the lines of: "Yes, you do have permission to place a bed for your colleage to sleep in, as you asked. Why he would want to do so instead of taking a room for himself (as he has the right to), I don't know, but since he seems to spend most of the time outside of the College, it's better to have more room for possible new students". You know, refering to the fact that Mizuno now spends most of the time at his camp instead of at the College itself, except for some occasional visits to Ko'Maru (and by extension, to the other students/teachers). As for Mizuno, I've been thinking of setting up a small quest to add him as a follower that actually fits with the story. The CK Quest Creating Tutorial is based on the creation of a basic fetch/recovery quest; basically, "Bandits stole my precious X! Please find it and bring it back to me" kind of stuff. I think I could set up something like that for Mizuno, but having to recover an item of sentimental value; a gift from Lana before she left , probably. Something like a Talos amulet or with similar meaning for him. He could say he lost it or it was stolen from him, and he would like to have it back. Then the player recovers it, there is some dialogue about the whole story between the two (but probably without much detail since there's the Journal for that, and even maybe Mizuno can point the player to read it), and finally he agrees to follow the player, since he has not much to do around there apart from seeing Ko'Maru (which would only be mentioned, there wouldn't be a need to visit him regularly or anything). So, any thoughts on this? Edited December 26, 2016 by Blaze69
Kuroyami Posted December 26, 2016 Posted December 26, 2016 I though of placing a note from Mirabelle addressed to Ko'Maru somewhere in the room where she talks about some (probably unspecified or hinted at at most) recent events, lack of room and the need to temporarily relocate him to the now-furnished storage room in the other hall. Then, there could be another later note where she states that it is better if he stays in that room for convenience reasons as long as he doesn't mind (to explain why is there an empty room for the player in the Hall of Attainment and Ko'Maru doesn't move there). In this second note there could also be a mention about the bedroll and Mizuno actually sleeping there. Something along the lines of: "Yes, you do have permission to place a bed for your colleage to sleep in, as you asked. Why he would want to do so instead of taking a room for himself (as he has the right to), I don't know, but since he seems to spend most of the time outside of the College, it's better to have more room for possible new students". You know, refering to the fact that Mizuno now spends most of the time at his camp instead of at the College itself, except for some occasional visits to Ko'Maru (and by extension, to the other students/teachers). As for Mizuno, I've been thinking of setting up a small quest to add him as a follower that actually fits with the story. The CK Quest Creating Tutorial is based on the creation of a basic fetch/recovery quest; basically, "Bandits stole my precious X! Please find it and bring it back to me" kind of stuff. I think I could set up something like that for Mizuno, but having to recover an item of sentimental value; a gift from Lana before she left , probably. Something like a Talos amulet or with similar meaning for him. He could say he lost it or it was stolen from him, and he would like to have it back. Then the player recovers it, there is some dialogue about the whole story between the two (but probably without much detail since there's the Journal for that, and even maybe Mizuno can point the player to read it), and finally he agrees to follow the player, since he has not much to do around there apart from seeing Ko'Maru (which would only be mentioned, there wouldn't be a need to visit him regularly or anything). So, any thoughts on this? Mirabelle does mention more students than just the player joining recently, but that could just refer to Brelyna, J'zargo, and Onmund, rather than them and a number of other students. It almost seems as if there should be more empty space, not less. Likely just a flaw in design(technically), Bethesda only making enough rooms for the NPCs they needed, keeping one for player use. As for Ko'Maru not taking the then empty player's room, given that the Hall of Attainment is for newer members, and how long Ko'Maru has been there(not that long, but still), along with his proficiency(i.e very good at Illusion and Alteration), it was felt that he was better suited to the Hall of Countenance, in spite of the fact that most of it's existing rooms were already occupied. I'm really going to take a look at the vanilla College, just so I'm more familiar with it. Again, I'm not sure what it is in the vanilla game(have not seen the vanilla college in a while), but ICOW does have a room in the Hall of Attainment that is similar, i.e it has two beds, along with a table and chairs. So a similar setup, which likely won't be that odd. Not suggesting that mod as a factor though, just as a similar idea for placement, which seems to be similar to what is going on already. Most of my ideas might be to have it specific, since having it be a Radiant quest means that you have to think of the quest with location variance in mind. Obviously you can't think, "I want the player to go find it in Bleak Coast Cave", you have to consider that it could pick any location in Winterhold, or whatever area or keyword is set for it, right? But still, I can see that making sense. Builds up a bit of trust. Not sure about the item(a Talos Amulet could work), but I'd say keep the possible locations to Winterhold, just so the player doesn't have to run of to, say some location in the REACH to find it. My idea for why he doesn't mind following the player is, he has been realizing for a while that he has quite a bit of magical skill, and very few instances in which that skill is getting used. There may be mention in his journal about recent events in Skyrim, like Helgen(which even in most Alternate Start mods, at least something is going on relating to that place), so even if nothing specific is mentioned, he is generally aware of the rumors, no matter how vague, wrong, or true they are. So if he gets a chance to get out and explore Skyrim, he would take it.
Blaze69 Posted December 26, 2016 Author Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) Most of my ideas might be to have it specific, since having it be a Radiant quest means that you have to think of the quest with location variance in mind. Obviously you can't think, "I want the player to go find it in Bleak Coast Cave", you have to consider that it could pick any location in Winterhold, or whatever area or keyword is set for it, right? But still, I can see that making sense. Builds up a bit of trust. Not sure about the item(a Talos Amulet could work), but I'd say keep the possible locations to Winterhold, just so the player doesn't have to run of to, say some location in the REACH to find it. My idea for why he doesn't mind following the player is, he has been realizing for a while that he has quite a bit of magical skill, and very few instances in which that skill is getting used. There may be mention in his journal about recent events in Skyrim, like Helgen(which even in most Alternate Start mods, at least something is going on relating to that place), so even if nothing specific is mentioned, he is generally aware of the rumors, no matter how vague, wrong, or true they are. So if he gets a chance to get out and explore Skyrim, he would take it. Actually, I ran some tests on quest creating, on the dialogues to be more specific (quest objectives and such are not done yet), and while working on it, I came up with an idea: using Deekus for this. I know he is a target for the Dark Brotherhood, but like many other non-essential targets, he's not involved on any important quest, and if he's killed by the player before you are given the contract, there is a dialogue option to let the contract-giver know about it, skip the mission altogether and get the reward, so there should be no problems if his involvement ends up killing him. So, the thing would go like this: Mizuno looses the amulet in an incident with a feral shark or some other kind of sealife; he searches for it in the sea, but is unable to find it, and he's pretty sure Deekus found it and took it, but hasn't done anything for fear of things going wrong. I know the story is a bit weak here, but I'd say we can find a legit reason for him not to have done anything yet (Fear of being hurt? Fear of being jailed for murder? Something like that maybe). He then mentions it to the player, and asks for help. If you agree, then you have to recover the amulet from Deekus' camp, from an owned container. Ideally, there would be dialogue options to convince/intimidate/bribe him to get the amulet, but untill I learn how to do so, there would be two options: steal the amulet while he's looking the other way, or just take it upfront and kill him when he goes hostile. You then take the amulet back to Mizuno, he thanks you and explains a bit of his story with Lana (maybe mentioning the journal if you want to know more), and then says he'll be willing to follow you and get to explore Skyrim. He's added as a friend and thus as a potential follower, and that would be it. In fact, here are some pics of the dialogue lines. Note that they are very WIP, and there are some lines missing from the pics (most notably, some one-time-only introduction lines and the part where you request more info about where to find the amulet). it's mostly to get a feeling of how things would go: Edited December 26, 2016 by Blaze69
Blaze69 Posted December 26, 2016 Author Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) Okay, status update: I have set up the whole quest, and it works fine (Whoo!). Things go like this. I'll leave it in a spoiler to prevent, well, spoilers (does anybody else even read this thread? Sometimes I get the feeling it's just Kuroyami and me here, lol ): You meet Mizuno out of the College, and ask him who he is and what is he doing out there. He has some lines introducing himself and his situation, and when asked if he needs any help, he says yes, but then changes his mind. You then get a new quest entry that lists what happened and you get the objective: "Ask Mizuno if he needs any help". When asked about it again, he explains his situation, with two points where you can opt out: after he mentions the thing may require some questionable actions (aka stealing/murder), and after he is done with the details. If you opt out, you can go back at any time and carry on from there, either continuing or refusing again. Once you accept, you get the objective to recover the amulet, and are pointed to Deekus' camp. The amulet is placed next to his bedroll and the Dibella statue. It's owned, so if you try to take it while he's looking, he will become hostile. Stealing it without him noticing is easy, though; just wait for him to go to sleep. Even though you are, like, right there in his face, you can take the amulet undetected. You are then tasked to return the amulet to Mizuno, and when you do so, he's very happy about it. You get different lines of dialogue depending on whether Deekus is alive or dead (though it doesn't affect the end result), and then Mizuno gives you some gold, states his willingness to be your follower should you want to, and becomes your Ally and a potential follower. I still need to change the dialogues to something that fits better than my half-assed placeholder lines, though, and I've also made no mention of Lana whatsoever (though for the latter I'm thinking of adding some extra dialogue options asking about the amulet and Lana once the quest is finished). I can share a document with the lines so you can check it out and edit/create the lines yourself, Kuroyami. Edited December 26, 2016 by Blaze69
Kuroyami Posted December 26, 2016 Posted December 26, 2016 Actually, I ran some tests on quest creating, on the dialogues to be more specific (quest objectives and such are not done yet), and while working on it, I came up with an idea: using Deekus for this. I know he is a target for the Dark Brotherhood, but like many other non-essential targets, he's not involved on any important quest, and if he's killed by the player before you are given the contract, there is a dialogue option to let the contract-giver know about it, skip the mission altogether and get the reward, so there should be no problems if his involvement ends up killing him. So, the thing would go like this: Mizuno looses the amulet in an incident with a feral shark or some other kind of sealife; he searches for it in the sea, but is unable to find it, and he's pretty sure Deekus found it and took it, but hasn't done anything for fear of things going wrong. I know the story is a bit weak here, but I'd say we can find a legit reason for him not to have done anything yet (Fear of being hurt? Fear of being jailed for murder? Something like that maybe). He then mentions it to the player, and asks for help. If you agree, then you have to recover the amulet from Deekus' camp, from an owned container. Ideally, there would be dialogue options to convince/intimidate/bribe him to get the amulet, but untill I learn how to do so, there would be two options: steal the amulet while he's looking the other way, or just take it upfront and kill him when he goes hostile. Mizuno_Quest_Dialogue1.png Mizuno_Quest_Dialogue2.png Mizuno_Quest_Dialogue3.png Mizuno_Quest_Dialogue4.png Mizuno_Quest_Dialogue5.png Mizuno_Quest_Dialogue6.png Mizuno_Quest_Dialogue7.png You know what, I would say the only problem with having Deekus involved would be the planned Arashi character, but I think I might just do something else with him, so this doesn't get too complex. Maybe it fell from his neck either in some encounter with sea life, or in an attempt to search Pilgrim's Trench. Which Deekus later searched, and...ah, Mizuno knows where it is, because he knows the Clairvoyance spell. So either that spell does more than the effect in-game(like a vague vision of what you are seeking), or he scouted the area of Deekus camp, and the spell's effect lead right to Deekus. Okay, status update: I have set up the whole quest, and it works fine (Whoo!). Things go like this. I'll leave it in a spoiler to prevent, well, spoilers (does anybody else even read this thread? Sometimes I get the feeling it's just Kuroyami and me here, lol ): You meet Mizuno out of the College, and ask him who he is and what is he doing out there. He has some lines introducing himself and his situation, and when asked if he needs any help, he says yes, but then changes his mind. You then get a new quest entry that lists what happened and you get the objective: "Ask Mizuno if he needs any help". When asked about it again, he explains his situation, with two points where you can opt out: after he mentions the thing may require some questionable actions (aka stealing/murder), and after he is done with the details. If you opt out, you can go back at any time and carry on from there, either continuing or refusing again. Once you accept, you get the objective to recover the amulet, and are pointed to Deekus' camp. The amulet is placed next to his bedroll and the Dibella statue. It's owned, so if you try to take it while he's looking, he will become hostile. Stealing it without him noticing is easy, though; just wait for him to go to sleep. Even though you are, like, right there in his face, you can take the amulet undetected. You are then tasked to return the amulet to Mizuno, and when you do so, he's very happy about it. You get different lines of dialogue depending on whether Deekus is alive or dead (though it doesn't affect the end result), and then Mizuno gives you some gold, states his willingness to be your follower should you want to, and becomes your Ally and a potential follower. I still need to change the dialogues to something that fits better than my half-assed placeholder lines, though, and I've also made no mention of Lana whatsoever (though for the latter I'm thinking of adding some extra dialogue options asking about the amulet and Lana once the quest is finished). I can share a document with the lines so you can check it out and edit/create the lines yourself, Kuroyami. Honestly, as much as that sounds okay to me, I know some would prefer the idea that it takes your initiative to get quests, not just a certain line. Granted, in this case it seems you not only ask first, and perhaps have a few chances to back out, so it isn't like some vanilla examples of this kind of thing. Though I will say, perhaps if at any point you back out, the objective to ask Mizuno if he needs help will complete, even though you can still inquire at some other point about it. Yeah, I can take a look through it. A basic YA appearance for Lana. Again, I'm not sure if any hair could be used that is similar to the reference image. Sharkmer-NPC-Lana-YA.7z Also, as should be obvious from those images, I took a look at the vanilla HoC layout. Actually, I think I never actually went into that area of the game without ICOW. So yeah, the changes it makes are rather extensive, i.e in ICOW it removes two of the upstairs rooms for the Enchanting and Alchemy areas, moving the existing tables to different places, along with a lot of changes to the remaining rooms.
Blaze69 Posted December 26, 2016 Author Posted December 26, 2016 Maybe it fell from his neck either in some encounter with sea life, or in an attempt to search Pilgrim's Trench. Which Deekus later searched, and...ah, Mizuno knows where it is, because he knows the Clairvoyance spell. So either that spell does more than the effect in-game(like a vague vision of what you are seeking), or he scouted the area of Deekus camp, and the spell's effect lead right to Deekus. Honestly, as much as that sounds okay to me, I know some would prefer the idea that it takes your initiative to get quests, not just a certain line. Granted, in this case it seems you not only ask first, and perhaps have a few chances to back out, so it isn't like some vanilla examples of this kind of thing. Though I will say, perhaps if at any point you back out, the objective to ask Mizuno if he needs help will complete, even though you can still inquire at some other point about it. Yeah, I can take a look through it. A basic YA appearance for Lana. Again, I'm not sure if any hair could be used that is similar to the reference image. Also, as should be obvious from those images, I took a look at the vanilla HoC layout. Actually, I think I never actually went into that area of the game without ICOW. So yeah, the changes it makes are rather extensive, i.e in ICOW it removes two of the upstairs rooms for the Enchanting and Alchemy areas, moving the existing tables to different places, along with a lot of changes to the remaining rooms. Yeah, whatever you think fits best. The idea is to have the amulet end up either on Deekus camp, or in some place where he could have found and taken it, and make Mizuno aware of it somehow. Both the clairvoyance and the scouting options work, though the spell may make it easier to explain why hasn't tried to recover it yet. Maybe he saw something he didn't like, like "several tough Argonian bandits" even though it was just Deekus seen double/triple due to the spell's dizzyness or something like that. Having the "Ask Mizuno" objective be completed once you ask for the first time while keeping the quest still active untill you accept to help him should be possible, though I would have to try it out first. Okay, here's a quick draft of how it goes, with the specific situations and rough number of lines he should have. Feel free to write both Mizuno's and the player's lines, though I can probably fit my lines for the player to whatever you write: Nice, I'll take a look at her, I'm sure I can find something like that either in Apachii or in KS, so it should be easy.
Kuroyami Posted December 27, 2016 Posted December 27, 2016 Okay, so here is basically how I'm laying this out. M - ... | > Um, who are you? | >M – A student at the College, though I only visit occasionally now. I'm Mizuno, and before you ask, I am a Sharkmer. | >M - Odd, I know, but the actual name does not translate well into Human or Mer languages. | >[A1] What are you doing out here? >[A2] Odd place to be hanging out. >[A3] Um, why are you naked? At this point, A1 goes right into the details for the quest, A2 goes into what he is doing there more specifically(and mentions him having fun with the sea life, which the player can call him out on), and A3, well, is somewhat obvious. A3 doesn't go anywhere in terms of the quest, so you would be given the A options once finishing the chain. A2 may be the same, or may link to lines that lead into the quest details.
Blaze69 Posted December 27, 2016 Author Posted December 27, 2016 Okay, so here is basically how I'm laying this out. M - ... | > Um, who are you? | >M – A student at the College, though I only visit occasionally now. I'm Mizuno, and before you ask, I am a Sharkmer. | >M - Odd, I know, but the actual name does not translate well into Human or Mer languages. | >[A1] What are you doing out here? >[A2] Odd place to be hanging out. >[A3] Um, why are you naked? At this point, A1 goes right into the details for the quest, A2 goes into what he is doing there more specifically(and mentions him having fun with the sea life, which the player can call him out on), and A3, well, is somewhat obvious. A3 doesn't go anywhere in terms of the quest, so you would be given the A options once finishing the chain. A2 may be the same, or may link to lines that lead into the quest details. Oh, okay, let me see. First and foremost, about the dialogue doc: you probably got this already, but when I say "X lines" for each entry, I mean the number of lines Mizuno says one after the other before the player has to interact again, because dialogues are limited to 149 characters or something like that, so the more he has to say, the more lines required. That does not refer to the number of options the player has. In fact, each entry (with a double dash --) is a single line for the player that prompts that specific chain, unless I state there are more player lines involved. Having said that, it does sound like a good idea to have those three options, at least the first time you speak with him. For the other two parts of his dialogue (offering help and bringing back the amulet), I'd rather keep the overall same structure, though this is for technical reasons. Basically, I have to add some small scripts to certain dialogues to progress the quest and so, and using MO with the CK means I have to go through some tedious workarounds whenever I have to create and/or edit a script, so the less I have to change the basic structure of the conversation outside the "Meeting Mizuno" part, the better. About what you mention in A2, well... I didn't expect him to be so blunt as to mention it straightaway, even if you have to inquire a bit first. Nothing wrong with that, though, so I'm okay with introducing the topic there, lol . Also, if you do want to add some kind of journal entry about it, feel free to do so regardless of whether it's just a summary of what happened and what he felt like and so, or it does contain a detailed description of it.
Kuroyami Posted December 27, 2016 Posted December 27, 2016 Oh, okay, let me see. First and foremost, about the dialogue doc: you probably got this already, but when I say "X lines" for each entry, I mean the number of lines Mizuno says one after the other before the player has to interact again, because dialogues are limited to 149 characters or something like that, so the more he has to say, the more lines required. That does not refer to the number of options the player has. In fact, each entry (with a double dash --) is a single line for the player that prompts that specific chain, unless I state there are more player lines involved. Having said that, it does sound like a good idea to have those three options, at least the first time you speak with him. For the other two parts of his dialogue (offering help and bringing back the amulet), I'd rather keep the overall same structure, though this is for technical reasons. Basically, I have to add some small scripts to certain dialogues to progress the quest and so, and using MO with the CK means I have to go through some tedious workarounds whenever I have to create and/or edit a script, so the less I have to change the basic structure of the conversation outside the "Meeting Mizuno" part, the better. About what you mention in A2, well... I didn't expect him to be so blunt as to mention it straightaway, even if you have to inquire a bit first. Nothing wrong with that, though, so I'm okay with introducing the topic there, lol . Also, if you do want to add some kind of journal entry about it, feel free to do so regardless of whether it's just a summary of what happened and what he felt like and so, or it does contain a detailed description of it. I knew there was likely a limit, and it seems that some of the first few are fine. Though with some if them, given how I've spaced it, it counts as more. That is easy to fix though, and some of these were quite wordy. Though with a few edits, most of these should be fine character wise. Though for Mizuno I've usually kept to perhaps no more than 3 lines for him, before the player gets something to say. Some of these may be just to get around the limit, though usually not going past 4 lines. Though in one case he does get 5. A1 M – [A1] Thinking. A lot. I will not bore you with details – I have been through a lot recently, even though I've had a good time. | M – It does NOT help that I recently lost something. Be it my own foolishness or just random chance, I do not care. | >[b1] So you lost something. It seems like there is more to this than that. >[b2] Then you need some kind of help? B1 M – [b1] Yes, I lost something a friend gave me. It was not directly stolen, but it fell off my neck during a swim, and....wait, why am I telling you this? | >[D1] You do want help, right? So tell me more. >[D2] Just tell me what happened. >[D3] Yeah, I do not want to pry. Excuse me. [End Dialog] B2 M – [b2] Yeah, I do...wait, no I do not. That does not make sense – why would you care? | >[E1] I help people, and you need help. Tell me. >[E2] Some kind of reward, maybe? >[E3] You would be right, I do not.[End Dialog] In most cases the player does get at least three options, especially for the points were the PC can opt out(two for differing responses, and one to deny the quest or do it later), which are the above ones. Mostly since choosing anything but those should mean the player is interested. It's not, too overt. M – [A2] Yeah, but I am a Shark. I do not have any problems with the cold, and I like being near water. | M – But it is not so bad. I have fish to fill my belly, and they can offer some company too. It also keeps my mind off of, other things. | > Um, what do you mean by “Company”? | M – [sigh] I am quite strong, and I know a spell that can Paralyze almost everything. Not all of them struggle though, and I find those ones better. | >[C1] So, you...um, really? >[C2] SERIOUSLY? >[C3] Yeah, I think I do not want to know.[Return to A options] He could just be referring to fishing(i.e catching food akin to Goku in Dragon Ball) or just swimming with them(nevermind getting ATTACKED by them with Sea of Spirits), and it takes going further to have him say it. As for mentioning it in his journal, it certainly will be there. I'll get this in a document soon, and probably add more there once I know what exists now is alright.
Blaze69 Posted December 27, 2016 Author Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) I'll get this in a document soon, and probably add more there once I know what exists now is alright. Okay. Just so I can make things clear, this is how the second and third parts are organized. Adding more lines to each link in the chain is easy, as is adding more sections (aka player has a line and Mizuno continues talking in response to the player). What should be avoided would be to add more branches and options; I can still do so, but I'd prefer to keep such edits to a minumum: Once the "Meeting Mizuno" branch is finished, the player knows he has some problem he could use some help with, but he's a bit reticent to ask. Note that whenever Mizuno speaks, he can have more than a single 149-letter line, though it's best if he doesn't exceed 6 or so lines at a time. Also, the lines I have here for the player are set up for the old dialogue, they can safely be edited; the point is to keep the structure. 1_P->You said you could use some help? 1_M->(says he lost an amulet that meant a lot to him, mentions it was from someone that is now gone; he ends up mentioning the task would require some questionable actions) 2a_P->I don't want to get involved in anything like that. Sorry. 2a_M->(that's okay, come back if you want to hear about it) [END CONVERSATION] 2b_P->I would need some more details first. 2b_M->(explains how and where he lost the amulet; says he's pretty sure Deekus has it at his camp; maybe explains why hasn't recovered it) 3a_P->I can't help you with that, sorry. 3a_M->(that's okay, come back if you change your mind) [END CONVERSATION] 3b_P->Sure, I'll see what I can do. 3b_M->(thanks the player, describes the amulet, wishes you luck) [END CONVERSATION] And this is what happens when you take the amulet back to him. 1_P->I recovered your amulet. Here, take it. 1_M->(yes, this is his amulet. thanks the player. asks what happened to Deekus) *Here the player only has a single option depending on whether Deekus is alive or dead. It's better to not specify if the player had to kill him to take the amulet, because he could have been killed for any other reason, including the DB contract. 2a_P->Actually, yes, Deekus is dead. 2a_M->(replies to that) 2b_P->Well, he is still breathing, if that is what you are asking. 2b_M->(replies to that) 3_P->Do you need anything else? 3_M->(no, thank you very much. Gives the player some amount of gold, or maybe some items. Says he is willing to follow you, and he's now your friend) [END CONVERSATION] BTW, in his first lines he explicitly refers to the fact that he is a "Sharkmer", and how weird it sounds as a name for his race (the fact that "men and mer have problems translating/pronouncing their name from their tongue" is a nice detail ). This would be a little weird if the player is also a shark, so there could be an alternative line played if the player is a Sharkmer as well where he is snarky about something else instead of his race. Maybe about the fact that he is studying at the College? Like "Yes, I am interested in magic. Shocking for one of our kind, isn't it? Go ahead, tell me how weird it is. It's not like I haven't gotten that enough already from others back home." It's not, too overt. M – [A2] Yeah, but I am a Shark. I do not have any problems with the cold, and I like being near water. | M – But it is not so bad. I have fish to fill my belly, and they can offer some company too. It also keeps my mind off of, other things. | > Um, what do you mean by “Company”? | M – [sigh] I am quite strong, and I know a spell that can Paralyze almost everything. Not all of them struggle though, and I find those ones better. | >[C1] So, you...um, really? >[C2] SERIOUSLY? >[C3] Yeah, I think I do not want to know.[Return to A options] He could just be referring to fishing(i.e catching food akin to Goku in Dragon Ball) or just swimming with them(nevermind getting ATTACKED by them with Sea of Spirits), and it takes going further to have him say it. As for mentioning it in his journal, it certainly will be there. Oh, okay, I see it now. He still drops it a bit too "casually" even if you have to actually ask about it, but then again, after all the stuff he's going through, I don't think he would care that much about a random stranger knowing he sometimes takes the ferals for a ride, so it kinda fits in this context, lol. Also, just so you know, it should be possible to record the player's answer to this part, and use it for later. Like, for example: if you do ask in C1 (honestly, C2 would be a bit superflous here), and he explains the thing, you get three possible answers: Neutral ("I don't have a problem with that, It's your thing"), negative ("That's just gross!") or positive ("Oh, it does seem like an... interesting"idea"). Then, if the topic comes up again, he may act differently depending on whether you asked about it, and what was your answer. Just an idea, though; it's just that I was looking at Quest Variables and the idea came to mind. There is no need to actually add more dialogues about it, so I can just store the variable and leave it there in case it can be used later. Edited December 27, 2016 by Blaze69
Kuroyami Posted December 27, 2016 Posted December 27, 2016 So the document...Link. Hopefully this can work. Not a new character, just one I'm playing. Also, I've replaced the male normal map, blending it with the one from this mod, SOS Male bodymaps for slimmer bodies. Still have to see if I can't fix the wrist seam. I'm not too sure about including this one as optional, though permissions on that mod or fiszi's which it is based on doesn't have much about permissions, just crediting those who made SOS, the male bodyslide files, etc.
Blaze69 Posted December 27, 2016 Author Posted December 27, 2016 So the document...Link. Hopefully this can work. Yeah, I can work with that. I'll get it all set up. I may have to move some stuff around (either your dialogues or my CK logic) because the "introduction" and the "quest giving" parts are separate CK branches (basically standalone dialogue sets) and I'm not sure I can cross-link between two different ones. I'll see how it goes. Also let me know when you have the dialogues for the second and third parts. Now, for a different subject, I've been thinking about the race name. It was originally part of the humorous/joke nature of the original mod (Shark-mer, as in, Alt-mer, Dun-mer or Bos-mer), but I think they could use a more serious name. I did some quick research on sharks to see if i could find any term that could fit them, and I think I have something: Selachii. It comes from the name of the clade/superorder that holds all of the species of sharks, Selachimorpha. Also, I'm not sure why, but to me it does sound fitting as the name for a race. It has that tribal/primal vibe to it, but it still sounds nice. I think it could work. So, the thing would go like this: the sharks have their own name in their native tongue (which will not be specified or spoken, or at least I don't intend to) which is difficult to translate/pronounce by non-sharks. Then, there's the accepted standard Cyrodiilic name, which would be Selachii. That would be the one used by the sharks themselves when speaking the Cyrodiilic language (aka English or whatever language your game is set to) and by people with knowledge about them, like scholars, diplomats or people constantly in contact with them (sailors, merchants, and so on). Last, we would have "Sharkmer", which would be a somewhat negative or uninformed term used by common people that don't know that much about them and have only heard stories about the "shark-people savages". Kind of like "knife ears" for elves, but with much less racist connotations (though I don't think most sharks would like that name). Then, if the player is a shark as well, when Mizuno introduces himself as a "Sharkmer" instead of as a "Selachii", he then could have a line like "Oh, yeah, I meant Selachii. I'm so used to the locals asking me with the name they give us that I used it instead of our own. Not sure if you knew about it already".
Minik435 Posted December 27, 2016 Posted December 27, 2016 So the document...Link. Hopefully this can work. Yeah, I can work with that. I'll get it all set up. I may have to move some stuff around (either your dialogues or my CK logic) because the "introduction" and the "quest giving" parts are separate CK branches (basically standalone dialogue sets) and I'm not sure I can cross-link between two different ones. I'll see how it goes. Also let me know when you have the dialogues for the second and third parts. Now, for a different subject, I've been thinking about the race name. It was originally part of the humorous/joke nature of the original mod (Shark-mer, as in, Alt-mer, Dun-mer or Bos-mer), but I think they could use a more serious name. I did some quick research on sharks to see if i could find any term that could fit them, and I think I have something: Selachii. It comes from the name of the clade/superorder that holds all of the species of sharks, Selachimorpha. Also, I'm not sure why, but to me it does sound fitting as the name for a race. It has that tribal/primal vibe to it, but it still sounds nice. I think it could work. So, the thing would go like this: the sharks have their own name in their native tongue (which will not be specified or spoken, or at least I don't intend to) which is difficult to translate/pronounce by non-sharks. Then, there's the accepted standard Cyrodiilic name, which would be Selachii. That would be the one used by the sharks themselves when speaking the Cyrodiilic language (aka English or whatever language your game is set to) and by people with knowledge about them, like scholars, diplomats or people constantly in contact with them (sailors, merchants, and so on). Last, we would have "Sharkmer", which would be a somewhat negative or uninformed term used by common people that don't know that much about them and have only heard stories about the "shark-people savages". Kind of like "knife ears" for elves, but with much less racist connotations (though I don't think most sharks would like that name). Then, if the player is a shark as well, when Mizuno introduces himself as a "Sharkmer" instead of as a "Selachii", he then could have a line like "Oh, yeah, I meant Selachii. I'm so used to the locals asking me with the name they give us that I used it instead of our own. Not sure if you knew about it already". I agree. The current name kind of sounds like a joke - and they came from Akavir - a land of beasts on Nirn of which we know very little (only 3 main beast tribes and a long-dead human race so far). Selachii really suits water creatures they are and I am up to that name instead.
Kuroyami Posted December 28, 2016 Posted December 28, 2016 So I've made a few changes to Mizuno's opening lines, adding some specific ones if the player is a Selachii themselves. He only mentions him being a Mage as unusual if you are, as if you are not, you might not have any idea that the use of magic is not commonly used by his race. Along with that, I've also added lines for when the quest progresses, i.e the player gets the amulet. This has three possibles, you steal it, you bribe Deekus for it, and of course you kill him for it. One could be added for a combination of the first and last, i.e you try to steal it and he sees you, so you kill him. Mizuno does react for each one, and the player can then respond to his comments about what happened - then it goes to the part where you can first get him as a follower. Not sure if I have to do something specific for if the player would not do so at that point, and would choose to get him as a follower later. I certainly can do so. Perhaps doing some dialog for other topics too, like a bit of his history, etc.
Blaze69 Posted December 28, 2016 Author Posted December 28, 2016 So I've made a few changes to Mizuno's opening lines, adding some specific ones if the player is a Selachii themselves. He only mentions him being a Mage as unusual if you are, as if you are not, you might not have any idea that the use of magic is not commonly used by his race. Along with that, I've also added lines for when the quest progresses, i.e the player gets the amulet. This has three possibles, you steal it, you bribe Deekus for it, and of course you kill him for it. One could be added for a combination of the first and last, i.e you try to steal it and he sees you, so you kill him. Mizuno does react for each one, and the player can then respond to his comments about what happened - then it goes to the part where you can first get him as a follower. Not sure if I have to do something specific for if the player would not do so at that point, and would choose to get him as a follower later. I certainly can do so. Perhaps doing some dialog for other topics too, like a bit of his history, etc. Okay, that first part sounds appropiate, I'll make the change. About the options when delivering the amulet, that could work. So there would be three options: Stolen (which happens when Deekus is alive and he was not persuaded), Persuaded/Intimidated/Bribed (self-explanatory) and Killed (self-explanantory as well). The second path won't be available untill I figure out how to set up the vanilla options for bribe/presuade/intimidate for Deekus, though, but the other two are already there, it's just a matter of changing the lines themselves. For the sake of compatibility, I think it's better to just end the conversation once he's done talking instead of automatically recruiting him. Some follower mods may edit/disable the vanilla dialogue/recruitment system, so if I manually trigger it from my dialogues, there may be issues. I'll just add him to the appropiate factions and exit conversation, and then the player can just use the vanilla/modded recruitment dialogue option like on any other follower.
Blaze69 Posted December 28, 2016 Author Posted December 28, 2016 LanaYA1.pngLanaYA2.pngLanaYA3.png A basic YA appearance for Lana. Again, I'm not sure if any hair could be used that is similar to the reference image. Sharkmer-NPC-Lana-YA.7z Okay, I had forgotten about this so far, and I was just going to try to find an appropiate hair for wolf-Lana and tweak her appearance, but it turns out you packed the human preset by mistake. Could you upload the Lykaios one? Back on track, the dialogue is all set up. The Bribe/Intimidate/Persuade options for Deekus are still missing, but as I said, it's really easy to steal it from him, so I see no problem there for now. I'm going to test the quest a few times to make sure there are no loose ends or broken scripts and anything, and if it seems to be fine, I'll probably update the mod. Most of the work has gone into the NPC plugin, so there hasn't been much progress on the race itself except for the new name and the updated race description. It's not like there is much stuff left to do, though; at the moment there's nothing on the "To-Do" list for the race that can be done now. If anybody has any suggestions about it, feel free to post them.
Minik435 Posted December 28, 2016 Posted December 28, 2016 Any plans on giving them custom voices? I kind of hate having to use Fuz Ro D'oh and custom-voiced followers are just great for community. Heck, even I'd cover voice for one if not the fact that my lungs doesn't let me talk properly (mostly some silent hissing) but who knows. I did voice for one cRPG mod reconstruction but those were 4 lines. That's all.
Kuroyami Posted December 28, 2016 Posted December 28, 2016 Okay, I had forgotten about this so far, and I was just going to try to find an appropiate hair for wolf-Lana and tweak her appearance, but it turns out you packed the human preset by mistake. Could you upload the Lykaios one? Most of the work has gone into the NPC plugin, so there hasn't been much progress on the race itself except for the new name and the updated race description. It's not like there is much stuff left to do, though; at the moment there's nothing on the "To-Do" list for the race that can be done now. If anybody has any suggestions about it, feel free to post them. Oops. This should be the right one. Sharkmer-NPC-Lana-YA.7z I would suggest perhaps switching the race to use the Argonian voice set. But that would mean that male characters do not have custom shout VA, just as the male Argonians do not. Perhaps a technically minor point, but that's something that makes me not want to play a male Argonian, and do the main quest. Otherwise, the only thing I would suggest is, maybe an uncut option for males. Either a specific addon, or just a replacer for the schlong meshes in the existing human one. The only problem is, I'm not sure about a resource for that, other than Leito's schlong mod.
Kuroyami Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 Okay, so I've written a bit more for Vaynelle's journal, explaining a bit more about how she met Kori, along with adding some explanation of this newly chosen name. Entries 14, 17 and 18 were edited. 14 adds the explanation of the race's name, after the mention of the book. 17 is much longer, explaining their first meeting, including Yisra(a vanilla NPC from a cut-content quest), who would spend some time away from the College doing her experiments, and Vaynelle would travel to where she was staying, bringing food and having lunch with her, and she was also involved with the rescue. 18 just has Vaynelle call Kori a "Selachii", instead of Sharkmer.
Blaze69 Posted December 29, 2016 Author Posted December 29, 2016 Okay, so I've written a bit more for Vaynelle's journal, explaining a bit more about how she met Kori, along with adding some explanation of this newly chosen name. Entries 14, 17 and 18 were edited. 14 adds the explanation of the race's name, after the mention of the book. 17 is much longer, explaining their first meeting, including Yisra(a vanilla NPC from a cut-content quest), who would spend some time away from the College doing her experiments, and Vaynelle would travel to where she was staying, bringing food and having lunch with her, and she was also involved with the rescue. 18 just has Vaynelle call Kori a "Selachii", instead of Sharkmer. Neat, I'll implement the edits. In fact, I should place the journal somewhere in the world, 'cause I haven't done so yet. The thing is, since it's a physics-enabled object like all othe other books, there's always the chance of something freaking out and sending it 1000 feet into the sky or something like that if I just drop it somewhere (it has happened to me before, and it's the reason the Stones of Barenziah are actually set up as static activators and not just moveable misc objects). In the case of Mizuno I left a backpack (aka static container) on his camp named "Mizuno's Knapsack" that will hold his journal once it's implemented, so that is not a problem, but doing the same for Vaynelle could be a little repetitive. On the other hand, it would make more sense to find her old journal forgotten inside her knapsack along some other stuff than just laying around somewhere in or close to her tent, so there's that. I'll probably go for the knapsack as well.
Blaze69 Posted December 29, 2016 Author Posted December 29, 2016 Alright, it's done. I added a knapsack for Vaynelle in the tent with the journal inside it, alongside some leveled/random items. I used stuff from Dragonborn because most of it is Dunmer-themed and it fits better with Vaynelle than the vanilla knapsack inventory. This is it: And this is the journal: Also, as a bonus, here are some pics of Ko'Maru's room in the Hall of Countenance. So far he doesn't do much, he mostly does sandbox inside his room. I also copied some spell practice packages from J'zargo and he seems to follow them fine (he starts around 10 in the morning or so IIRC), though I'm not sure where he goes yet, lol. Also Mizuno doesn't visit him yet either, but I'll probably add that for the next update. I still want to do some testing to make sure i didn't forget to clean up stuff and so, but I'd say it's time for another update. ETA is tomorrow, though as always, I can't promise anything.
Blaze69 Posted December 29, 2016 Author Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) Okay, next version is up. You know the drill: everything should work, let me know if you find any issues, yadda yadda yadda. One thing to note is that the mod size goes over LL's size limit, so I had to pack the main file in two parts: one with the textures and other with the rest of the files. Make sure you download and install both of them! EDIT: Alternatively, you can use the (Mirrors) link from the download list to get the main file from MEGA. I uploaded it kind of in a rush, so please let me know if there are any issues with the one-file link. Edited December 29, 2016 by Blaze69
Kuroyami Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 Really like all the small details. Now that I think of it, I might have to make the attempt to write something similar to the Argonian themed books(i.e the ones Mizuno has), that he would have somewhere in his room. Might need to change that line in the first image, just to avoid that problem. Not sure why the "Sovngarde" font doesn't have quote marks. As for the second, I think I have to where he only says it because you ask, and he does not relate things to you in detail.
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