Roleplaying as a weak, helpless girl.

[sapho888]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

DCL's Captured Princess LAL start is a good example of play that uses DD as part of a quest, rather than just putting items on the player. It's a little rough in places, but there's some nice immersion, and it's not just "run to a place and don't die".

Yeah, I liked the captured princess LAL start as well.  The rest of the mod didn't really fit my playstyle as much.   I actually don't have it as part of my modded game right now as much of what I do like about the mod has been replicated in separate mods, such as SL Adventures.

[worik]

10 hours ago, Slorm said:

For example I have a glass sword (superior) once it drops to fine I can't temper it back to superior (says I don't have the skill). If I console in a new sword then I can.

I guess it is because of (cut&paste from the modpage)

Quote

・How much tempering depends on the level of NPC.

I can circumvent this with the mod "honed metal" and I feel it is ok for my style. Tempering is something that I always see as "sharpening". And of course that is supposed to have limitations. But that's probably because I always felt the Skyrim "tempering" odd in the first place

? And I think I had read somewhere that "dropping it" or "putting in in a chest" and picking it up again makes the sword "untracked" by the mod. So you can temper again as before.

 

10 hours ago, Slorm said:

Like you I couldn't figure out the widget toggle key

ToggleKeyCode=0x44

is binding it to F10. But I still have that UI widget active in my kill-cam, regardless if it was on/of in normal gameplay

[Slorm]

4 hours ago, worik said:

And I think I had read somewhere that "dropping it" or "putting in in a chest" and picking it up again makes the sword "untracked" by the mod. So you can temper again as before.
 

I tried that but it doesn't work unfortunately. IIRC that's from Monoman's mod

[Lupine00]

What I'm finding out now, is that I've overdone it a bit.

 

There are too many cash sinks, and too many skill blockers. Things start bad, then get worse. Then even worse.

 

With both FMEA and DCL making harvesting a hazard, and FMEA alchemy, it's just another hazard. You get narcosis or an allergic reaction, and you're very sick. When that's piled on top of maxed out Apropos2 W&T, you're in a bad state.

 

With a DF and all the other cash sinks, you can't really pay off the DF, and with more deals you're increasingly unable to pay them off. Pretty much any money you can make in RP goes to the DF follower, who you can't get rid of, because you're so deep in deal-debt.

 

And then, if you try to adventure, you quickly end up crippled by wounds, despite the follower, and can't afford to (or even find, in most cases) cure them with potions. You're left with a severe concussion, W&T maxed out, and maybe FMEA penalties too. You can barely walk. You can't help the follower much, as you have no skills, no spells, no health and no mana.

 

 

The only thing you can do, is RP work, and that keeps W&T maxed, and isn't enough to get out of debt, let alone buy any advancement.

And if you can find any loot from the follower's kills, you can't carry it, due to crippled stats and SL Adventures poverty stopping you carrying anything.

Just food and board alone are enough to soak most of the money, unless I get lucky. I daren't even undertake Military Camp trips, because travelling is too risky.

 

The setup needs some balancing.

 

Things went completely sideways for me after RP companions visit. Apropos killed me for that. I looked in a barrel and DCL hit me, then walking at a crawl, just trying to get to Riverwood, savaged by wolves while the follower faffed about not saving me, severe concussion, and more cuts.

 

 

In this kind of game, FMEA is overkill. I think that can be dropped. You could abuse the hell out of alchemy, you'd still be on the ropes most of the time.

 

DCL seems unnecessary too. Random bondage? You have a follower for that. Possibly, could keep FMEA and drop DCL.

Or possibly turn off both.

 

If you can actually go adventuring, the wounds are hazard enough.

 

SL Adventures Poverty can probably be turned off too.

 

RP doesn't have enough interesting going on to want to keep watching it, so adventuring has to be at least partially viable.

 

 

I'm starting to suspect that Wounds would be better if you could only get the more serious wounds (above bruises) as a result of going into bleedout.

That would be a good punishment for getting saved by DA bleedout mode and the follower.

 

If RP had some quests, possibly repeatable, where you have a bit more input than just going to a place and doing more sex scenes.

 

 

If only W&T and Wounds were a single integrated thing, it would be a lot easier to set up and balance, and you could potentially cure W&T or Wounds a bit more often. As it is, I can't cure either, as I can't get the ingredients for W&T, and I rarely see a Wounds potion for sale. If I do, I can't afford it anyway due to DF sinking all my cash.

 

I don't think DF is the problem here, it's doing what I want most of the time. It's sinking cash in a potentially interesting way. The problem with the other obstructions is that they aren't interesting, they just stop you doing anything but RP.

[chevalierx]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

What I'm finding out now, is that I've overdone it a bit.

 

There are too many cash sinks, and too many skill blockers. Things start bad, then get worse. Then even worse.

 

With both FMEA and DCL making harvesting a hazard, and FMEA alchemy, it's just another hazard. You get narcosis or an allergic reaction, and you're very sick. When that's piled on top of maxed out Apropos2 W&T, you're in a bad state.

 

With a DF and all the other cash sinks, you can't really pay off the DF, and with more deals you're increasingly unable to pay them off. Pretty much any money you can make in RP goes to the DF follower, who you can't get rid of, because you're so deep in deal-debt.

 

And then, if you try to adventure, you quickly end up crippled by wounds, despite the follower, and can't afford to (or even find, in most cases) cure them with potions. You're left with a severe concussion, W&T maxed out, and maybe FMEA penalties too. You can barely walk. You can't help the follower much, as you have no skills, no spells, no health and no mana.

 

 

The only thing you can do, is RP work, and that keeps W&T maxed, and isn't enough to get out of debt, let alone buy any advancement.

And if you can find any loot from the follower's kills, you can't carry it, due to crippled stats and SL Adventures poverty stopping you carrying anything.

Just food and board alone are enough to soak most of the money, unless I get lucky. I daren't even undertake Military Camp trips, because travelling is too risky.

 

The setup needs some balancing.

 

Things went completely sideways for me after RP companions visit. Apropos killed me for that. I looked in a barrel and DCL hit me, then walking at a crawl, just trying to get to Riverwood, savaged by wolves while the follower faffed about not saving me, severe concussion, and more cuts.

 

 

In this kind of game, FMEA is overkill. I think that can be dropped. You could abuse the hell out of alchemy, you'd still be on the ropes most of the time.

 

DCL seems unnecessary too. Random bondage? You have a follower for that. Possibly, could keep FMEA and drop DCL.

Or possibly turn off both.

 

If you can actually go adventuring, the wounds are hazard enough.

 

SL Adventures Poverty can probably be turned off too.

 

RP doesn't have enough interesting going on to want to keep watching it, so adventuring has to be at least partially viable.

 

 

I'm starting to suspect that Wounds would be better if you could only get the more serious wounds (above bruises) as a result of going into bleedout.

That would be a good punishment for getting saved by DA bleedout mode and the follower.

 

If RP had some quests, possibly repeatable, where you have a bit more input than just going to a place and doing more sex scenes.

 

 

If only W&T and Wounds were a single integrated thing, it would be a lot easier to set up and balance, and you could potentially cure W&T or Wounds a bit more often. As it is, I can't cure either, as I can't get the ingredients for W&T, and I rarely see a Wounds potion for sale. If I do, I can't afford it anyway due to DF sinking all my cash.

 

I don't think DF is the problem here, it's doing what I want most of the time. It's sinking cash in a potentially interesting way. The problem with the other obstructions is that they aren't interesting, they just stop you doing anything but RP.

DF ?

defeat ? device framework ?

[Lupine00]

6 minutes ago, chevalierx said:

DF ?

defeat ? device framework ?

DF = Devious Followers

 

also

FMEA = Failure Mode Effects Analysis

DA = Death Alternative (strictly DAYMOYL)

DCL = Deviously Cursed Loot

RP = Radiant Prostitution

[sapho888]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

What I'm finding out now, is that I've overdone it a bit.

 

There are too many cash sinks, and too many skill blockers. Things start bad, then get worse. Then even worse.

 

With both FMEA and DCL making harvesting a hazard, and FMEA alchemy, it's just another hazard. You get narcosis or an allergic reaction, and you're very sick. When that's piled on top of maxed out Apropos2 W&T, you're in a bad state.

 

With a DF and all the other cash sinks, you can't really pay off the DF, and with more deals you're increasingly unable to pay them off. Pretty much any money you can make in RP goes to the DF follower, who you can't get rid of, because you're so deep in deal-debt.

 

And then, if you try to adventure, you quickly end up crippled by wounds, despite the follower, and can't afford to (or even find, in most cases) cure them with potions. You're left with a severe concussion, W&T maxed out, and maybe FMEA penalties too. You can barely walk. You can't help the follower much, as you have no skills, no spells, no health and no mana.

 

 

The only thing you can do, is RP work, and that keeps W&T maxed, and isn't enough to get out of debt, let alone buy any advancement.

And if you can find any loot from the follower's kills, you can't carry it, due to crippled stats and SL Adventures poverty stopping you carrying anything.

Just food and board alone are enough to soak most of the money, unless I get lucky. I daren't even undertake Military Camp trips, because travelling is too risky.

 

The setup needs some balancing.

 

Things went completely sideways for me after RP companions visit. Apropos killed me for that. I looked in a barrel and DCL hit me, then walking at a crawl, just trying to get to Riverwood, savaged by wolves while the follower faffed about not saving me, severe concussion, and more cuts.

 

 

In this kind of game, FMEA is overkill. I think that can be dropped. You could abuse the hell out of alchemy, you'd still be on the ropes most of the time.

 

DCL seems unnecessary too. Random bondage? You have a follower for that. Possibly, could keep FMEA and drop DCL.

Or possibly turn off both.

 

If you can actually go adventuring, the wounds are hazard enough.

 

SL Adventures Poverty can probably be turned off too.

 

RP doesn't have enough interesting going on to want to keep watching it, so adventuring has to be at least partially viable.

 

 

I'm starting to suspect that Wounds would be better if you could only get the more serious wounds (above bruises) as a result of going into bleedout.

That would be a good punishment for getting saved by DA bleedout mode and the follower.

 

If RP had some quests, possibly repeatable, where you have a bit more input than just going to a place and doing more sex scenes.

 

 

If only W&T and Wounds were a single integrated thing, it would be a lot easier to set up and balance, and you could potentially cure W&T or Wounds a bit more often. As it is, I can't cure either, as I can't get the ingredients for W&T, and I rarely see a Wounds potion for sale. If I do, I can't afford it anyway due to DF sinking all my cash.

 

I don't think DF is the problem here, it's doing what I want most of the time. It's sinking cash in a potentially interesting way. The problem with the other obstructions is that they aren't interesting, they just stop you doing anything but RP.

Funny enough, your setup is more similar to mine now    I don't have FMEA or DCL in mine.  I've tried them both and found that magically spawning bondage gear was rather unimmersive and I would dread the gameplay aspects when those mods would trigger more than my PC would.

 

I haven't tried SL Adv. Poverty but the mod page describes it as reducing max carry weight.  I do have this with a different mod but I also use SL Survival's setting which set a minimum to your carry weight so that other mods can't drop it below a certain threshold.

 

I've tried various W&T mods in the past but none really worked the way I wanted them to.

 

But overall, I've tried to limit the amount of debuffs I can be given from mods because not being able to move was just not a fun way to play.  It could be more realistic but in the end, this is a game and I wanted to be able to have fun.  I have mods that make gameplay harder, such as ones that make guards more suspicious of sneaking so that most of the penalties I get involve the bounty system or directly into some kind of slavery mod.

[Lupine00]

16 minutes ago, sapho888 said:

I've tried various W&T mods in the past but none really worked the way I wanted them to.

I think the damage in Apropos2 works reasonably. It doesn't account for duration, but it seems better than Apropos Classic.

 

However, the only ways to heal are time, or spider eggs, or chaurus eggs. Amusing choices, as obtaining either is generally risky.

Even more so, if you have Parasites installed.

 

However, as I can't get either kind of egg, that leaves only time, which I don't have either. Not the kind of time it takes to recover from maxed out abuse values.

 

 

The keep your arousal down game in DCL is ... something ... but it fails to really be a game as soon as some bothersome NPC sticks you in a belt with plugs, or some mod feels the need to make you unaccountably horny at the slightest application of a Devious Device. After that, you're just pegged at 100, so all you get are more DCL events. Bam! Bam! Bam! Full set for you! And as soon as you manage to get a few devices off, you get more.

 

DD is another insect in the ointment here, as it feels a need to decide you can never struggle out of, or cut a device off, due to some kind of 'fumbled check' or critical failure on escape. I get these far more often than I actually escape. That leaves you beholden to keys, which means looting containers, which leads to getting more devices.

 

You can always ask your DF to remove some devices, but the cost is problematic, and usually ends up with you indentured to wearing more devices anyway, so you're no better off with that. If you could earn money, it would be OK, but you can't earn the big sums you need to pay anything off; RP brings an income, but it's a capped income that increases only slightly as you level up your customers served. New service options don't always mean more money, and in many cases require travelling that is either impossible, or too expensive.

 

 

So, DCL isn't workable due to the mechanics, regardless of immersion issues. For a regular game, where you have a house, and a chest full of keys you looted, or at least money, and cached DD items you can trade to the Dollmaker, getting all bound up is usually escapable and survivable (though not always). In a game where you don't have those safety nets, a pair of slave boots can be a slow death sentence.

[worik]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The setup needs some balancing.

Your mods are fine ? you just need to tune not-all-sliders-to-maximum !

Maybe just some.

 

If anyone is interested, I could go in-game and copy my settings over here.

My list

Spoiler

• Apropos2 /W&T
• Bathing in Skyrim
• BF
• Cobb Encumerabce
• CTD (Toxicity)
• DA
• DD Helpers
• DE Chests
• Equipment Durability System
• FF
• Frostfall - Seasons - Classic Edition (Cold winter means COLD!)
• FMEA
• Honed Metal (
• Hunterbirn (earn money)
• Immersive Speechcraft (beg for money)
• POP
• Religion
• RND
• RP/G
• Spell Research
• Wet & Cold
• Wounds
• finally Perkus Maximus for making gold weigh, slowing skill advances, etc ..

Not using

• DCL <= too many conflicts for me
• SLAdv <= I wanted to add it at christmas, but it sounds everyday like a new version is imminent . I just gave up on SLDangerous Nights2 to have a slot for it.

? Note to myself: write a blog article about my "make live harder" mods

[Lupine00]

42 minutes ago, worik said:

Your mods are fine ? you just need to tune not-all-sliders-to-maximum !

Maybe just some.

You say that, but your setup is different enough from mine to be a another world. You have no DF, no DCL, no SL Adventures, and no RP; the play style is not even going to be close. It would take me all day to list the hazards you don't have that I do.

 

i.e. sure you have apropos, but you aren't getting gang raped by a entire guild of werewolves as a means of financial support. When that happens, apropos notices. And it should. That problem there is not apropos, it's RP thinking that even it just some harmless fun worth paying you 500 for, when it cost me 400 just to travel to Whiterun to have it happen! So, I take all that damage, for essentially zero profit. That would be fun, if that was the low point. The low point is narcosis and allergic reaction from picking a couple of herbs, compounded with a severe concussion, and an outfit made of rubber bondage rather than armor. I have two walking speeds. Very slow and totally frozen in place by some dumb min-speed fixer bug.

 

Your alchemy is harder, but FMEA poisoning me close to death is just a contributing issue, I already had no stamina or health before it took away my regen. So now I die if a wolf looks sideways at me. Also, I have Skooma Whore +Addicted lurking, ready to pounce, but that hasn't even hit yet.

 

 

My sliders are a helluva long way from maximum. Really.

 

 

My DF is set on very soft settings, and DCL is considerably turned down, and almost entirely disabled anyway apart from the core random items in containers.

 

My Wounds is substantially turned down, with base wound percentage reduced from default, and cuts, broken bones and concussion also turned down. The wounds count is turned down to 1 too (defaults to 3).

 

I've recently turned Wounds down further, with base wound chance now reduced from 15% (previous) to a mere 10% but that doesn't help me get rid of all the wounds I have.

 

 

FMEA, I turned off a lot, but the adjustments aren't really suitable to get any result that makes it worth leaving in, so it's just dead weight with almost all the grief turned off.

 

DCL has the same issues. It simply lacks the granularity to tune properly for low chances. As I have to set up for a 100 arousal configuration, if I manage to rid myself of the arousal DCL is basically turned off.

 

The alternative is arousal causes too many events, or arousal is tuned out, and has little effect.

 

At that point I start to wonder why I'm bothering with it. I have DCL to enable the events, not to make them super-rare, but even rare events can trigger an avalanche with all the other mods in play.

 

Too many variables, too many interactions, too many effects that can magnify each other.

 

If I want a half-stable game-state, I need to remove some.

 

And that's not even addressing how super-dumb SL Aroused (Redux) is, but I've been over that issue many times in the past. Writing a replacement has been on my TODO list forever. 

 

But with belts, and SLA as it is, arousal will clamp at 100 and stay there. That's just how DD has designed plugs and belts. You can't lose arousal and you gain it faster. The only fix for DCL in this case is to tune arousal out of the cursed loot chance, and then there is no arousal game.

 

 

As for Apropos2. I think the results it's generated are tame enough already. It's not the problem. In some ways, it's too tame. The problem is that my character is trapped in a situation of ceaseless whoring simply to avoid enslavement by the follower, and keeps abuse levels at max, or near max, which combined with all the other things starts to become quite a burden. Some of the other things need toning down that is for sure, and some just need removing.

 

I may well turn down many more things I have installed a bit (DF interest rate is a killer for example), but for now, the system needs a bit of simplification. Without a little simplification, tuning everything is impossible because it's chaos.

[Corsayr]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

What I'm finding out now, is that I've overdone it a bit.

 

There are too many cash sinks, and too many skill blockers. Things start bad, then get worse. Then even worse.

I sort of thought you were heading in that direction, but I figured you knew what you were doing. ?

 

 

[sapho888]

I'm using

 

Spoiler

Combat Evolved (for harder combat)

DAYMOYL/Defeat/SD+ (for combat enslavement)

Loot and Degradation (for NPCs taking loot from bodies that they kill, makes it harder for me to earn gold)

RP/G (to earn money legitimately?)

SL Adv. 

SL Survival (gold has weight, begging dialog, toll to leave city, no compass/map unless I buy one)

SLSO (makes me have to work for the begging)

Slaverun (for atmosphere of enslaved cities, pretty well made slavery questline)

POP (for a "funner" prison term.  also a way to get food and shelter if you are super desperate)

College Days Winterhold (to make it harder to get into the college)

Sleep for Credit (for extra curricular activities)

Frostfall (to make it cold!)

Soulgem Oven

MME 

Skooma Whore (to possibly give me a reason to actually use the milkers from MME)

SLSW Addicted

Estrus Chaurus/Spider

Realistic Capacity (to limit carry capacity)

SLUTS Redux

Devious Cidna

You Hunger (to make free food harder to find)

 

To make thievery more difficult but possibly more rewarding: 

No psychic lock knowledge (to make lock picking more difficult)

No Combat Music (So i don't have a 6th sense that someone is coming to kill me)

suspicious city guards (guards will follow you if they see you sneaking around)

Riffling Crime (it is crime just to open containers that you don't have permission to open)

MoreLoot in Shops

NarrativeLoot

Key20 (mod that adds DD keys to NPCs for you to pickpocket)

 

[SkyAddiction]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Spoiler

 

You say that, but your setup is different enough from mine to be a another world. You have no DF, no DCL, no SL Adventures, and no RP; the play style is not even going to be close. It would take me all day to list the hazards you don't have that I do.

 

i.e. sure you have apropos, but you aren't getting gang raped by a entire guild of werewolves as a means of financial support. When that happens, apropos notices. And it should. That problem there is not apropos, it's RP thinking that even it just some harmless fun worth paying you 500 for, when it cost me 400 just to travel to Whiterun to have it happen! So, I take all that damage, for essentially zero profit. That would be fun, if that was the low point. The low point is narcosis and allergic reaction from picking a couple of herbs, compounded with a severe concussion, and an outfit made of rubber bondage rather than armor. I have two walking speeds. Very slow and totally frozen in place by some dumb min-speed fixer bug.

 

Your alchemy is harder, but FMEA poisoning me close to death is just a contributing issue, I already had no stamina or health before it took away my regen. So now I die if a wolf looks sideways at me. Also, I have Skooma Whore +Addicted lurking, ready to pounce, but that hasn't even hit yet.

 

 

My sliders are a helluva long way from maximum. Really.

 

 

My DF is set on very soft settings, and DCL is considerably turned down, and almost entirely disabled anyway apart from the core random items in containers.

 

My Wounds is substantially turned down, with base wound percentage reduced from default, and cuts, broken bones and concussion also turned down. The wounds count is turned down to 1 too (defaults to 3).

 

I've recently turned Wounds down further, with base wound chance now reduced from 15% (previous) to a mere 10% but that doesn't help me get rid of all the wounds I have.

 

 

FMEA, I turned off a lot, but the adjustments aren't really suitable to get any result that makes it worth leaving in, so it's just dead weight with almost all the grief turned off.

 

DCL has the same issues. It simply lacks the granularity to tune properly for low chances. As I have to set up for a 100 arousal configuration, if I manage to rid myself of the arousal DCL is basically turned off.

 

The alternative is arousal causes too many events, or arousal is tuned out, and has little effect.

 

At that point I start to wonder why I'm bothering with it. I have DCL to enable the events, not to make them super-rare, but even rare events can trigger an avalanche with all the other mods in play.

 

Too many variables, too many interactions, too many effects that can magnify each other.

 

If I want a half-stable game-state, I need to remove some.

 

And that's not even addressing how super-dumb SL Aroused (Redux) is, but I've been over that issue many times in the past. Writing a replacement has been on my TODO list forever. 

 

But with belts, and SLA as it is, arousal will clamp at 100 and stay there. That's just how DD has designed plugs and belts. You can't lose arousal and you gain it faster. The only fix for DCL in this case is to tune arousal out of the cursed loot chance, and then there is no arousal game.

 

 

As for Apropos2. I think the results it's generated are tame enough already. It's not the problem. In some ways, it's too tame. The problem is that my character is trapped in a situation of ceaseless whoring simply to avoid enslavement by the follower, and keeps abuse levels at max, or near max, which combined with all the other things starts to become quite a burden. Some of the other things need toning down that is for sure, and some just need removing.

 

I may well turn down many more things I have installed a bit (DF interest rate is a killer for example), but for now, the system needs a bit of simplification. Without a little simplification, tuning everything is impossible because it's chaos.

 

 

 

I don't have Wounds, SL Adv, or DAYMOYL (I use DCL combat surrender), but my setup is otherwise very similar.

 

A couple ideas:

1. Turn off FMEA ingredients. It's massive overkill for 1-10 skill characters, where DCL likes to trigger skooma instead, which Apropos will use to heal your PC. The rest of FMEA is pretty okay.

2. In DCL, use specific event chances, lower arousal weighting to negligible values, set max devices to 3 or 4/no full sets/no progressive bondage. Set rape conditions to 3 or 4/chance to get tied up to 5% or less, 1% chance of NPC actions/no follower/only when visibly bound, no public nudity/public sex crime/misogyny to 0.5% if you use it at all. Oh, and set hardcore events to level 15 or so.

^this pretty much limits DCL to random wrenches in gameplay and risky behavior, which is where it shines.

3. Turn up payment in RP. Way up. 2-3 johns should get you 200-400 net. Turn off NPC approach. This preserves it as a quick money option that might start the crazy sex addiction mechanic avalanche in SLA, but probably won't.

4. If you have CCOR, increase wood-chopping output to about 12-30 or so per action. If 5-10 actions can get you a room and a bowl of soup, that's perfect.

 

The idea here is to create avenues where your PC has a few options to rest up by performing a few repetitive tasks and renting a room, but they won't take all day. It also allows you to save up some money so you can hire a DF to go clear and loot, then pay them off after a day or two. Ideally, you want net loot with a DF to get you 50-100 more gold than you'd make chopping wood or whoring for 10-15 real-time minutes as a no-skill character, and becoming progressively more lucrative as leveled loot and speech skill increases come into play.

 

You're still going to have to go into SLA every so often to "fix" the sex addiction that inevitably accrues from time to time even when it shouldn't, but you probably already do that anyway.

[SmedleyDButler]

12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

DF = Devious Followers

 

also

FMEA = Failure Mode Effects Analysis

DA = Death Alternative (strictly DAYMOYL)

DCL = Deviously Cursed Loot

RP = Radiant Prostitution

W&T?

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, Corsayr said:

I sort of thought you were heading in that direction, but I figured you knew what you were doing.

Haha. I don't think you can predict exactly how these things are going to interact until you try it.

 

That's why I started experimenting. My method is throw in everything and then erase what isn't helping.

 

 

Normally, DCL is a must-have, and without DF in the mix, it probably would be.

 

Normally, I'd use DCL combat defeat, not DA+Defeat, but I want SD+ to enslave on defeat sometimes.

That is SD+ at its most immersive. Being sold to an SD+ master via SS is a failure, I'd almost say don't select it as an SS destination if you have alternatives.

 

DCL rape is not needed due to SL Adventures; DCL bondage dialogs is a silly feature that exists pretty much to support one Dollmaker quest that barely works anyway.

 

DCL's NPC comments and actions are tolerable if you turn the action chance waaaaay down, and increase the cooldown so you aren't seeing dumb unimmersive comments all the time. There is nothing particularly fun about having NPCs almost constantly stick restraints on you simply because you already have restraints on you. It's just ... a weird mechanic.

4 hours ago, SkyAddiction said:

2. In DCL, use specific event chances, lower arousal weighting to negligible values, set max devices to 3 or 4/no full sets/no progressive bondage. Set rape conditions to 3 or 4/chance to get tied up to 5% or less, 1% chance of NPC actions/no follower/only when visibly bound, no public nudity/public sex crime/misogyny to 0.5% if you use it at all. Oh, and set hardcore events to level 15 or so.

Trust me, I know how to set up DCL  In this circumstance, there's no immersion coming from it, and the gameplay has to be tuned down to almost nothing.

And I also know it adds quite a bit of load, especially on opening dialogs. So if you can not install it, that's a big win. I can't drop it from this game, but after more testing I'll be making a new LO, and it will be out for that one, due to being replaced piecemeal, or simply adding a class of hazards that don't fit with the game style/theme. Cursed Collar for example, or Rubber Doll, they're fun for a character who usually has it easy, but for a character who can barely feed herself, they're more like fatal catastrophes where you almost certainly can't survive the travelling involved. Being sent to SS with DCL quest items on is just a recipe for a broken game, so that's not a way out.

 

Normally, I don't use RP, or FMEA, or RRR, or JoS, and I'm still pretty new to Wounds.

This is only the second game where I've been using a "pay to advance" model, set up in SkyTweak, and All Trainers (Alternative).

It's the first time I've ever tried SXP, which is also offering advancement options (unlike the other game, where I'm doing pure pay-to-advance).

 

SXP is ... interesting ... there's a lot to digest about its impacts ... and advancement is certainly much slower than in vanilla.

 

 

I've used FMEA maybe only a couple times in the past, and hated it then. But those were early days for it, and it wasn't as polished as it is now.

I think, out of the box, it exists to pretty much disable most crafting. Really makes it a struggle to master alchemy, or anything but Smithing (which it doesn't cover).

 

For me, the negative effects can't be tuned sufficiently.

They seem to be set up for a vanilla game, where you have no other problems but FMEA.

In contrast to that, I have 99 problems, and an excessive supply of healing potions isn't one of them!

 

I have so little need of something like CtD that it's not funny. I don't have a single potion, and the only ones I ever had I looted in Helgen and ended up using almost immediately.

[Lupine00]

I just want to split out a point I covered in passing above:

 

DCL quest items and combat defeat outcomes via Simple Slavery

 

 

It's a long-standing problem in DCL that the quests can't be suspended somehow if you end up defeated.

Even a trivial defeat outcome, like being bound in the wilderness, isn't really compatible with DCL quest items.

 

Some items, like the Rubber Doll Suit, or the Cursed Collar render all other content blocked for all practical purposes.

 

If you're already fully bound, what can be added. And if you have no accessible holes (Queen Sarah) what is a bandit master from SD+ going to do with you?

 

With Cursed Collar or Rubber Doll, an SD+ master can't even collar you, because the collar is blocking.

 

 

DF was designed to work around this as much as possible, but SD+ and other "slavery" mods, like DCL's own Leon/Leah, or Devious Cidhna can't really cope with this.

DC for example, relies on you removing bindings to complete quest stages. It's fundamentally incompatible.

 

 

DCL quests are largely incompatible with any combat defeat slavery outcome, and many other defeat outcomes too.

If you're playing a game where you have those outcomes, you either have to disable those quests, or disable the outcomes, or kludge it with quit and reload on a case-by-case basis.

 

 

If DCL had some custom combat defeat outcomes for when you're on a quest ... for example ... escape from ruined tower ... escape after being thrown into a pit ... escape after being given to a specially designed master (probably the Dollmaker), possibly involving some tasks you have to do in the latter case, it would make for decent time-sinking and punishment, without having to use real-death, or total disablement of most outcomes.

[afa]

There's suppose to be another version of SL Aroused that at the very least prevent arousal for a period of time after rape and be gender selective when it comes to naked NPCs related arousal growth, but now that I am searching for it I can't find it...

FMEA never jived with me, and I find myself disabling most of DCL's features whenever I mess with it.

I don't even use DA with Defeat anymore, and opt to just artificially inflate PC's health and set the knock down threshold in Defeat way high.

 

DF is not a mod that I can run in concept.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, SmedleyDButler said:

W&T?

• DF = Devious Followers
• FMEA = Failure Mode Effects Analysis
• DA = Death Alternative (strictly DAYMOYL)
• DCL = Deviously Cursed Loot
• RP = Radiant Prostitution
• RRR = Realistic Room Rental
• JoS = Jobs of Skyrim
• DC = Devious Cidhna (could also be Deviously Captured, but in this context, it isn't).
• CtD = Chasing the Dragon
• SXP = SXP (Redone) ... Skyrim eXperience Point based levelling.
• SS = Simple Slavery (in this case Simple Slavery Plus)
• SD+ = Sanguine's Debauchery Plus
• W&T = Wear and Tear - comes from various mods, in this case from Apropos2

[Lupine00]

13 minutes ago, afa said:

There's suppose to be another version of SL Aroused that at the very least prevent arousal for a period of time after rape and be gender selective when it comes to naked

You are probably thinking of vlkSexLife. It works fine, by itself.

 

However, DD sticks its fingers into the internals of SLA, and it's somewhat doubtful that works correctly with vlkSL.

SLSO may also be incompatible with it.

vlkSexLife is no longer maintained, so that's a pity.

[SkyAddiction]

 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Spoiler

 

I just want to split out a point I covered in passing above:

 

DCL quest items and combat defeat outcomes via Simple Slavery

 

 

It's a long-standing problem in DCL that the quests can't be suspended somehow if you end up defeated.

Even a trivial defeat outcome, like being bound in the wilderness, isn't really compatible with DCL quest items.

 

Some items, like the Rubber Doll Suit, or the Cursed Collar render all other content blocked for all practical purposes.

 

If you're already fully bound, what can be added. And if you have no accessible holes (Queen Sarah) what is a bandit master from SD+ going to do with you?

 

With Cursed Collar or Rubber Doll, an SD+ master can't even collar you, because the collar is blocking.

 

 

DF was designed to work around this as much as possible, but SD+ and other "slavery" mods, like DCL's own Leon/Leah, or Devious Cidhna can't really cope with this.

DC for example, relies on you removing bindings to complete quest stages. It's fundamentally incompatible.

 

 

DCL quests are largely incompatible with any combat defeat slavery outcome, and many other defeat outcomes too.

If you're playing a game where you have those outcomes, you either have to disable those quests, or disable the outcomes, or kludge it with quit and reload on a case-by-case basis.

 

 

If DCL had some custom combat defeat outcomes for when you're on a quest ... for example ... escape from ruined tower ... escape after being thrown into a pit ... escape after being given to a specially designed master (probably the Dollmaker), possibly involving some tasks you have to do in the latter case, it would make for decent time-sinking and punishment, without having to use real-death, or total disablement of most outcomes.

 

 

 

I didn't realize you'd been driving the discussion here for a few pages. Looking back through the conversation, it's clear you've gone for a more universally punishing world than I have. It's a pretty creative combination of mods for desired effect, and I agree that DCL doesn't really fit too well into your particular mix.

 

One interesting aspect of DCL and the way combat surrender works with slavery mods is its relative incompatibility. Right now I have it set up to tie up the PC at 33%. Risking a close fight against a single opponent isn't that bad, but it's always better to run away against more, or just manually surrender using SD+ if I can't outrun them. Since DD is set to Default/Vanilla/3rd most difficult (I can't remember what the difficulties are called) and key break/lock jam is on, getting gift-wrapped through multiple assaults is far worse than taking the wear and tear hit and escaping during the night. Yeah, I lose all my stuff, but that's almost guaranteed when losing any fight with my no-skill characters. It's just another idea in the arsenal, but given the current gap in combat surrender means and punishing post-combat mods to make up for the lack of player death, I've been finding ways to force mods to work together whether they play nice or not.

 

There is one other thing worth mentioning. I don't think it's a good idea to completely disable skill leveling through experience. Since Skyrim's motive power is the kill/loot/sell/repeat set of systems, I've found it eventually becomes detrimental when low or no-skill PCs can't level at all the normal way. Eventually, you hit gaps in the money-for-training routine because you run out of locations to loot, and you have to wait for those locations to respawn their baddies, repeatedly use whatever small jobs you have at the risk of insanity, or go for locations which are way beyond the PC's capabilities, even with followers. I'm finding it needs to be about 1:5-1:7 or so in skills earned to trained. That almost certainly changes from player to player with economy modifications, but I didn't find a "pure" training system for leveling to be all that smooth or enjoyable.

 

I'll have to try SXP, but instinct tells me it's going to have activity gaps as above when using low-skill PCs and high difficulties.

[afa]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

You are probably thinking of vlkSexLife. It works fine, by itself.

 

However, DD sticks its fingers into the internals of SLA, and it's somewhat doubtful that works correctly with vlkSL.

SLSO may also be incompatible with it.

vlkSexLife is no longer maintained, so that's a pity.

YES! That's it! I was planning to gave that a try, but needing to start a fresh game was just enough of a huddle for me to put it in the backlog at the time.

[Lupine00]

10 minutes ago, afa said:

YES! That's it! I was planning to gave that a try, but needing to start a fresh game was just enough of a huddle for me to put it in the backlog at the time.

As much as anything, I ended up with the feeling that many mods have been tuned around the dumb behavior of SLA(Redux) and so vlk ends up putting the PC under less stress, generally.

 

In DCL for, example, you rarely need to worry about arousal, because rape suppresses arousal for a significant duration afterwards, and DCL also results in rapes.

That means you no longer have the "arousal game" as DCL seems to intend it.

 

vlk is utimately a simulationist mod, just like SLA.

 

A gameplay based mod for arousal would raise arousal based on something the player can control, at some cost, or with some effort - giving the player choices.

[SkyAddiction]

4 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

As much as anything, I ended up with the feeling that many mods have been tuned around the dumb behavior of SLA(Redux) and so vlk ends up putting the PC under less stress, generally.

 

In DCL for, example, you rarely need to worry about arousal, because rape suppresses arousal for a significant duration afterwards, and DCL also results in rapes.

That means you no longer have the "arousal game" as DCL seems to intend it.

 

vlk is utimately a simulationist mod, just like SLA.

 

A gameplay based mod for arousal would raise arousal based on something the player can control, at some cost, or with some effort - giving the player choices.

 

It could also be just as simple as a 24h check on SL calls. If you've been fucking like a sex-crazed rabbit, you gain arousal rate. If you've had sex one or two times, you steadily lose it until you hit the base rate. Simulationist definitely describes both SLA and vlk, though vlk makes far more sense in its implementation given current mod systems.

 

Both implementations miss the basic necessity of having a benign middle, where "normal" activity results in a degradation of the current state toward that middle.

[Lupine00]

50 minutes ago, SkyAddiction said:

Simulationist definitely describes both SLA and vlk, though vlk makes far more sense in its implementation given current mod systems.

The problem with having an arousal system that is driven primarily by sex acts, is that it is almost assured to have predictable feedback loops that have weird threshold points.

 

It's fundamentally dull, because the player can't control it, it's all just feedback in the same system.

 

 

To be a game, the player needs a handle (or two) they can pull that is not about having sex or abstaining from it.

And pulling that handle should have a cost, that isn't directly linked to sex acts.

Then, the player actually has a choice.

 

For example, Apropos will let you heal W&T by eating chaurus or spider eggs.

 

What if you could lower arousal, or even lower arousal time rate, by eating, or drinking something else?

 

What if something more available could be used to raise arousal, or simply change it according to some predictable rule?

 

Alcohol is one thing. Drink booze, sex seems more appealing.

It's easy to imagine some ingredient, or potion that has the opposite effect.

 

However, another substance could work based on current arousal.

 

Skooma might reduce arousal when you're already below 40, increase it if you're already above 60, and do nothing much if you're in the middle.

 

Bathing in cold river water => arousal set straight to 0.

Bathing in warm heated pool, inside => arousal bumped up to 60.

 

 

I could come up with many more simple mechanics like these to let the player mess around with their arousal level, if they are prepared to buy stuff, make potions, go places and use things, or simply do immersive stuff.

 

What we don't really need, is another arousal model based entirely around how much sex you have, no matter the actual model.

 

 

Personally, I'd like to see "sex addiction" handled by a specific mod, so you don't have it unless you install that mod, and if you do, you can customise it properly, so the effects of not having sex are more interesting than just getting some arousal.

 

SLD is aimed at handling some of these things, and I want to do more in future, but that in no way prevents someone making a dedicated sex-addict mod.

[SkyAddiction]

28 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Personally, I'd like to see "sex addiction" handled by a specific mod, so you don't have it unless you install that mod, and if you do, you can customise it properly, so the effects of not having sex are more interesting than just getting some arousal.

 

SLD is aimed at handling some of these things, and I want to do more in future, but that in no way prevents someone making a dedicated sex-addict mod.

Yeah, that would be ideal, but unless someone expresses interest in developing it, what incentive would said modder have to make this framework, and keep in mind they would, by necessity, have to account for existing dependent mods, which is nearly all of them, have to create some sort of complicated system that would have its own flaws? It's not going to be much better than some simple system which accounts for existing mechanics.

 

Look at SLSO. What it tries to do is admirable, but getting existing mods on-board is like pulling teeth - no one on either side really seems to want to participate. It can be done, but who really wants to do that in a diminishing modding environment?

 

It's the old framework/open system debate. Do we benefit from yet another framework, or do we benefit more from compromise systems that enhance what came before over some new system that existing modders might very well ignore?

 

I don't know, because it's hard to tell where Skyrim modding is right now, but I don't think the trend is up in any measurable way.