Why to use NMM instead of MO?

[Dooge]

Is there any reason?

[pornphile]

Biggest reason to use NMM is so we can have endless discussions on which is better. To hear others tell it, why use mod managers at all? They only seem to make things worse judging from the tech support. Hell, why do people even bother modding? All I see are help threads for CTD. You're just making things worse.

[Guest MonsterFish]

To laugh at the dirty NMM peasants of course.

[RitualClarity]

As many tools and benefits that MO gives you there is a learning curve to get these tools working. Most choose NMM for the simpler approach to applying mods to their game. The files just overwrite the previously installed files if they  have the same path. Very simple

[Dooge]

As many tools and benefits that MO gives you there is a learning curve to get these tools working. Most choose NMM for the simpler approach to applying mods to their game. The files just overwrite the previously installed files if they  have the same path. Very simple

 

OK thanks. I was just surprised cos lately all youtube channels and mod makers speak of NMM. I guess they were just tired of people who can't get MO to work.

[Captain Cobra]

I thought it was from MO 2's development being bumpy for a while.

[Guest MonsterFish]

Ah fuck I read the OP wrong like a tard and now I look stupid.

Boy is my face red.

 

But anyways, I use NMM instead of MO in FO4 because I'm not used to the version of MO used with that (At least not back then). Also I haven't played the game in a long ass time so I haven't changed it

With Skyrim I use MO...

[RitualClarity]

 

As many tools and benefits that MO gives you there is a learning curve to get these tools working. Most choose NMM for the simpler approach to applying mods to their game. The files just overwrite the previously installed files if they  have the same path. Very simple

 

OK thanks. I was just surprised cos lately all youtube channels and mod makers speak of NMM. I guess they were just tired of people who can't get MO to work.

 

It could be that or just they prefer NMM. Gopher has extensive videos on installing various mods and tools using NMM. Might be making it easier for their viewers as well. Also depends on the game. Fallout 4 pretty much needs NMM as MO isn't quite to the level it is with the 32bit games.

 

I thought it was from MO 2's development being bumpy for a while.

That can be another very valid reason as well.

 

Ah fuck I read the OP wrong like a tard and now I look stupid.

Boy is my face red.

 

But anyways, I use NMM instead of MO in FO4 because I'm not used to the version of MO used with that (At least not back then). Also I haven't played the game in a long ass time so I haven't changed it

With Skyrim I use MO...

I do the same. The 32bit games I use MO the Fallout 4 I used NMM. Other than a bad mod and glitch I haven't had a single problem using NMM. Worst case I had to reinstall a mod or two to overwrite some later mods I installed so I can get the graphics that I desired. Nothing serious. The glitch was easily fixed. Just deleted everything except the main ESM(s) and BS2(s) and then verified cache. It was pretty quick  because mostly of the left over files were loose and very small mb. No need to reinstall.

[myuhinny]

Fallout 3 and New Vegas I use FOMM oblivion I use OBMM skyrim I use a older build of NMM that never gets updated.

[Inte]

I use NMM for modding. MO can't be used for modding, can it?

[Benmc20]

MO2 isn't at release state for FO4, so I have chosen to go with NMM.

[XenomorphQueen]

Honestly I only use NMM at this point out of habit from Skyrim and even then like half my mods I end up manually installing. I fucked up last time I tried to use MO and now I'm just too lazy to learn how to properly use it. If I'm not mistaken (and I may be tbh) NMM adopted the whole not adding mods directly into the game directory like MO did/does. Definitely means a lot less hassle when starting clean.

[RitualClarity]

I use NMM for modding. MO can't be used for modding, can it?

 

I believe there are some added steps that you can take to make MO work for modding. I believe there are some FNV modders here that use MO also I am pretty sure Ashal uses MO for his modding needs. What those steps are I am not sure.

[Hæretic]

I use NMM for modding. MO can't be used for modding, can it?

 

MO can't be used for modding? I use it for modding since 8 month's and it definitely works.

And I am using a whole range of tools with MO like Fnis for modders, TESVEdit, Bodyslide/outfitstudio, and of course the CK.

I remember some fiddly stuff when setting it up, but I haven't spend more time than a half hour to get it to work (tutorial reading included).

Just to clarify we are talking about skyrim modding right?

[GimmeBACON]

From my experience, NMM plus basic understanding of how to mod is sufficient. I'm just not interested in learning MO or sending all my mods over from NMM, and if I can't use NMM to install a mod, I can just do it manually.

 

Edit: Should this have it's own topic though, and shouldn't it be in General Gaming or Skyrim?

[Nazzzgul666]

I can tell you why i used NMM: because, when i started modding, i started at Nexus. Then i found LL, installed a bunch of mods, re-installed Skyrim, installed mods, re-installed Skyrim and then i switched to MO. The time to get MO working was definitly worth it for me, but if i hadn't fucked it up 2 times within 3 days, maybe i'd still use NMM.

[HentaiGnome]

Honestly I only use NMM at this point out of habit from Skyrim and even then like half my mods I end up manually installing. I fucked up last time I tried to use MO and now I'm just too lazy to learn how to properly use it. If I'm not mistaken (and I may be tbh) NMM adopted the whole not adding mods directly into the game directory like MO did/does. Definitely means a lot less hassle when starting clean.

 

Same here. I attempted MO and messed some things up (this was a while back so I honestly don't remember what happened), but it was enough for me to stop using it. Switched back to NMM and everything worked right off the bat. Been using it ever since with no problems and I have a bunch of mods installed including SexLab stuff, as well as mods that are "manual" installs. To this day I still can't find a solid reason to use MO personally-speaking.

[dTd]

I use NMM because in the beginning it seemed like a good idea for installing mods from the Nexus. I never had any issues or problems with it and even the update for the virtual filesystem was painless (reading the directions possibly helped with that). MO always seemed complicated and granted if I was having any kind of trouble I more than likely would have switched. My motto so far has been "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Right now I use it because I may (haven't wanted to yet) want to remove all my mods and go back to a basic unfettered install of Skyrim at some point in the future and out of habit otherwise I'd be installing things manually.

[gregathit]

Right now there isn't much of an alternative to NMM.  FOMM is now unsupported and MO2 is in an unplayable state.  I do plan on switching to MO2 or something like it when they are stable.  Heck at this point, it is almost silly to use F4SE right now.  If you are, you can't play the game currently unless you hack your game to roll back the update.  NO I WON"T TELL YOU HOW............google it.

 

 

[guk]

Honestly it only takes a few hours to learn how MO works and install everything. After that you would have to be clinically insane to ever touch NMM again.

These few hours spent on learning MO are the best time investment in your (probably) thousands of hours for Skyrim modding, i can guarantee you that.

 

This goes especially for mod making - any files you create with tools ran through MO go directly into an external folder, which you can pack into a separate mod entry with 1 click.

 

All that NMM does is to unload the loose files into your game folder. Although even with just 1 mod it is neither reliable about installing, nor removing all files properly.

And with more and more mods overwriting each other, the (un)install process becomes longer and longer. That's why people complain about a simple mod install taking 5-10 or more minutes, sometimes it even freezes or aborts with an error.

If that wasn't enough, NMM is also capable of crashing while (un)installing mods, leaving your game folder essentially ruined.

 

The same with MO takes only a few seconds to unpack the mod, after that you can toggle mods on and off instantly. And there are no leftover files, because they never existed in your real skyrim folder to begin with.

Any conflicts between mods are simply solved by sorting mods in the order you want, or hiding files/folders within a mod.

And if you want to reinstall a mod - either to reset everything to default, or choose different installer options - or add an incremental update, it also has merge/replace functions for that.

All that is not even taking profiles into account, and the ability to reset anything (including INI files) to default with one button since nothing in your true Skyrim folder is modified. Only exceptions are ENB and SKSE files which technically have nothing to do with MO.

Lastly, i've been using MO for almost 2 years now, and i never ever had it crash even once.

 

Only issue i can see with MO is under Windows 10, where MO's virtual file system is not 100% compatible with all external tools. Files created with e.g. Bodyslide's Outfit Studio always end up in the Bodyslide mod folder, instead of the overwrite folder.

But other tools like DynDOLOD or FNIS work without any issues whatsoever. Bodyslide itself also works fine in the background, so you can actually create mods while playing the game.

[Kimy]

I use NMM because MO doesn't offer any features I'd be interested in (I don't need profiling). And because it's an absolute pain in the behind to set up MO for development and IMHO offers zero advantages over NMM for that purpose (all it does is making things more complicated for modding). NMM does everything I want, And from a software engineering point of view, I would even say that its approach is cleaner. I have to admit I am not a fan of the hackwork MO is using to mirror its file system into your Skyrim installation at runtime in order to keep your Data folder clean for no truly compelling reason. The idea of a mod manager is to be able to cleanly install and uninstall mods. That's all. As long as it can do that (and NMM can), it doesn't matter if it puts your mods directly into your Skyrim installation. *shrug*

 

That MO has an extremely rabid and outright nasty fanbase that thinks of itself to be so much smarter than others and calls people not using MO "clinically insane" (thank you, Guk!) doesn't mean it's the best mod manager. For some people MO is the the better choice, for others (like me) NMM is. They both have advantages and both have issues you need to accept and work around. People need to think about what they need their mod manager to do and then pick the one that suits them best. That's really all.

[Dooge]

Honestly it only takes a few hours to learn how MO works and install everything. After that you would have to be clinically insane to ever touch NMM again.

These few hours spent on learning MO are the best time investment in your (probably) thousands of hours for Skyrim modding, i can guarantee you that.

 

This goes especially for mod making - any files you create with tools ran through MO go directly into an external folder, which you can pack into a separate mod entry with 1 click.

 

All that NMM does is to unload the loose files into your game folder. Although even with just 1 mod it is neither reliable about installing, nor removing all files properly.

And with more and more mods overwriting each other, the (un)install process becomes longer and longer. That's why people complain about a simple mod install taking 5-10 or more minutes, sometimes it even freezes or aborts with an error.

If that wasn't enough, NMM is also capable of crashing while (un)installing mods, leaving your game folder essentially ruined.

 

The same with MO takes only a few seconds to unpack the mod, after that you can toggle mods on and off instantly. And there are no leftover files, because they never existed in your real skyrim folder to begin with.

Any conflicts between mods are simply solved by sorting mods in the order you want, or hiding files/folders within a mod.

And if you want to reinstall a mod - either to reset everything to default, or choose different installer options - or add an incremental update, it also has merge/replace functions for that.

All that is not even taking profiles into account, and the ability to reset anything (including INI files) to default with one button since nothing in your true Skyrim folder is modified. Only exceptions are ENB and SKSE files which technically have nothing to do with MO.

Lastly, i've been using MO for almost 2 years now, and i never ever had it crash even once.

 

Only issue i can see with MO is under Windows 10, where MO's virtual file system is not 100% compatible with all external tools. Files created with e.g. Bodyslide's Outfit Studio always end up in the Bodyslide mod folder, instead of the overwrite folder.

But other tools like DynDOLOD or FNIS work without any issues whatsoever. Bodyslide itself also works fine in the background, so you can actually create mods while playing the game.

 

I never tried NMM but this is what I thought. Glad someone said it out loud

 

[guk]

I use NMM because MO doesn't offer any features I'd be interested in (I don't need profiling).

Alright so you did not only skip reading my post (or anyone elses on the topic of MO) after the first line, but you never tried to figure out why people use MO. It's not the profiles, but the virtual file system.

 

And because it's an absolute pain in the behind to set up MO for development and IMHO offers zero advantages over NMM for that purpose (all it does is making things more complicated for modding).

That is blatantly wrong:

It is easy to set up MO for developing, you add the executable to MO and that's it.

And it does not make modding more complicated, in fact it is perfectly easy and failsafe because you never have to copy your mod files manually from the game folders. Anything you create in programs ran through MO directly ends up in its own standalone mod folder, ready to zip and upload.

But again see above, apparently you never bothered to figure out how MO works.

 

The idea of a mod manager is to be able to cleanly install and uninstall mods. That's all. As long as it can do that (and NMM can), it doesn't matter if it puts your mods directly into your Skyrim installation.

And again wrong on both accounts.

NMM is not able to make a clean uninstall of mods, it has never been and given the competency in the NMM dev team it likely never will. The basic idea of the program is already unfitting for mods that overwrite thousands of files with each other.

And yes having a clean Skyrim install is essential for mods and the game itself to work, or why do you think that NMM users have to "reinstall Skyrim again" all over?

 

That MO has an extremely rabid and outright nasty fanbase that thinks of itself to be so much smarter than others and calls people not using MO "clinically insane" (thank you, Guk!) doesn't mean it's the best mod manager. For some people MO is the the better choice, for others (like me) NMM is. They both have advantages and both have issues you need to accept and work around. People need to think about what they need their mod manager to do and then pick the one that suits them best. That's really all.

We could talk about fanboying if this was a matter of taste, like "CBBE or UNP", "Sushi or Pizza" and the like.

But essentially the way how MO has revolutionized modding for users and authors is clearly out of debate. While NMM has absolutely no advantages whatsover.

[MeMe]

I use NMM because MO doesn't offer any features I'd be interested in (I don't need profiling). And because it's an absolute pain in the behind to set up MO for development and IMHO offers zero advantages over NMM for that purpose (all it does is making things more complicated for modding). NMM does everything I want, And from a software engineering point of view, I would even say that its approach is cleaner. I have to admit I am not a fan of the hackwork MO is using to mirror its file system into your Skyrim installation at runtime in order to keep your Data folder clean for no truly compelling reason. The idea of a mod manager is to be able to cleanly install and uninstall mods. That's all. As long as it can do that (and NMM can), it doesn't matter if it puts your mods directly into your Skyrim installation. *shrug*

 

That MO has an extremely rabid and outright nasty fanbase that thinks of itself to be so much smarter than others and calls people not using MO "clinically insane" (thank you, Guk!) doesn't mean it's the best mod manager. For some people MO is the the better choice, for others (like me) NMM is. They both have advantages and both have issues you need to accept and work around. People need to think about what they need their mod manager to do and then pick the one that suits them best. That's really all.

 

Okay. I'm sad that some MO users insult NMM users, and I know that NMM is now A LOT better than the buggy mess it used to be, but keep in mind that the MO experience has been improving too. I feel safe saying that MO is still the better mod manager.

 

I used to do the whole notepad papyrus compiler mess too, but now this patch fixes that. And I can't think of any more tools that choke on MO's folder structure like Bodyslide 1 did. The golden rule is, just run it from MO and everything will be exactly the same as running it on NMM.

 

Maybe you can live without the benefits of MO, but to say that it keeps the data folder clean for no compelling reason confuses me. It's not just for looks. Being able to change my mods' install order instantly, or uninstall instantly, and that it clearly shows what is being overridden so I can make use of that, is a huge upgrade over the old days of OBMM and Wrye Bash for me.

[Inte]

 

 

 

I use NMM because MO doesn't offer any features I'd be interested in (I don't need profiling).

Alright so you did not only skip reading my post (or anyone elses on the topic of MO) after the first line, but you never tried to figure out why people use MO. It's not the profiles, but the virtual file system.

 

And because it's an absolute pain in the behind to set up MO for development and IMHO offers zero advantages over NMM for that purpose (all it does is making things more complicated for modding).

That is blatantly wrong:

It is easy to set up MO for developing, you add the executable to MO and that's it.

And it does not make modding more complicated, in fact it is perfectly easy and failsafe because you never have to copy your mod files manually from the game folders. Anything you create in programs ran through MO directly ends up in its own standalone mod folder, ready to zip and upload.

But again see above, apparently you never bothered to figure out how MO works.

 

The idea of a mod manager is to be able to cleanly install and uninstall mods. That's all. As long as it can do that (and NMM can), it doesn't matter if it puts your mods directly into your Skyrim installation.

And again wrong on both accounts.

NMM is not able to make a clean uninstall of mods, it has never been and given the competency in the NMM dev team it likely never will. The basic idea of the program is already unfitting for mods that overwrite thousands of files with each other.

 

 

And yes having a clean Skyrim install is essential for mods and the game itself to work, or why do you think that NMM users have to "reinstall Skyrim again" all over?

 

Speak for yourself and don't generalize.

I use NMM and I never had to uninstall Skyrim because of it ... ever.

I run a lot of mods and my oldest save is about 1000hr old and in perfect condition.

And like @Kimy said NMM does everything I need from a mod manager right 'out of the box', so why would I ever complicate things? Add executables, read instructions, follow directions ... just why?  

P.S. I use NMM 0.50.3 and no I don't like the new NMM - it's trying to copy MO and it sucks at it.