Why do you use modmanagers at all?

[Comrade Isbariya]

Seriously, I have to ask this...

Looking at the technical support section, I come to the conclusion, that using any modmanger makes things only worse. This doesn't work, that conflicts, there seem to be problems that I have never encountered myself. And I am not using any modmanger. (Mostly because NMM didn't work, and I didn't know about MO when I set everything up) 

 

Yes, I have to be twice as careful when installing mods, and check twice if anything gets overwritten or not, and sometimes I even have to backup my whole folder just to be sure that I can go back to a working state if I do something wrong - but then, I backup my folder from time to time anyway, as I am not willing to go through the painful way of reinstalling every mod one by one should I ever get a new computer or stuff. 

 

But - my game runs stable. No crashes, no nothing. Scripts run smoothly, and my game is highly modded and highly scripted. 

 

So, where would be the advantage of using MO? It even makes installing texture packs or similar 'small' mods or addons a pain in the ass. I wouldn't even know where to put SKSE plugins and all that stuff, while I know exactly where to put my stuff in the usual installation folder. 

 

Am I just 'lucky', is it because I know what I am doing, or are modmanagers really as useless and conflict-building as they seem to be in my eyes? 

[TheNoble]

Seriously, I have to ask this...

Looking at the technical support section, I come to the conclusion, that using any modmanger makes things only worse. This doesn't work, that conflicts, there seem to be problems that I have never encountered myself. And I am not using any modmanger. (Mostly because NMM didn't work, and I didn't know about MO when I set everything up) 

 

Yes, I have to be twice as careful when installing mods, and check twice if anything gets overwritten or not, and sometimes I even have to backup my whole folder just to be sure that I can go back to a working state if I do something wrong - but then, I backup my folder from time to time anyway, as I am not willing to go through the painful way of reinstalling every mod one by one should I ever get a new computer or stuff. 

 

But - my game runs stable. No crashes, no nothing. Scripts run smoothly, and my game is highly modded and highly scripted. 

 

So, where would be the advantage of using MO? It even makes installing texture packs or similar 'small' mods or addons a pain in the ass. I wouldn't even know where to put SKSE plugins and all that stuff, while I know exactly where to put my stuff in the usual installation folder. 

 

Am I just 'lucky', is it because I know what I am doing, or are modmanagers really as useless and conflict-building as they seem to be in my eyes? 

 

Advantages of MO

 

Your Skyrim folder stays clean at all times, meaning you can instantly revert back to Vanilla to play something like Enderal, 

You can manipulate and edit mods in a clean environment, see exactly what they change, and change how they overwrite each other

You can play through different collections of mods, each with their own INIs, Savegames, and states without having to reinstall the game 4 times over.

You will never have to "Back up" your stuff. All you need is the mod load-order and your bashed-patches, etc, and you could realistically rebuild your game. I've had to do this, and I'm actually doing it right now.

Merging Mods is awesome

 

The interface for mod-organizer is actually very intuitive, it plugs into the nexus, and makes organizing things very easy.  Yes, you'll have to use the 5 minute tutorial, but running EXE files and the like through MO is very easy. 

 

I'm using a pretty complicated installation. I've got Perma, TES5Edit Merge Patches and merged mods DSR, Sexlab, FNIS and others all on top of each other. I've also got about three characters that all never see the same load order. I would say that either you're either not doing anything particularly complicated, or you're just lucky.

[prinyo]

Because you can easily uninstall mods. That's the only reason for me. 

 

When you install a mod by hand and then unistall it you not only need to find all the files in order to remove them, but also keep track of what was overwritten and recover it. You could do that by keeping backups, but when the game is more than 50GB and installed on an SSD and the backups are on an external drive it gets annoying.

 

If you have lots of mods and constantly add or remove the easy uninstall option is really helpful. And it makes it easy to try new mods. Or debug problems.

 

 

Edited: Removed the last sentence that was about NMM, because it puts me in the discussion between NMM and MO. The point of my post was - why use a mod manager (any) at all.

 

[dzeni]

I have noticed that mostly MO users are having problems. Meanwhile I open up my NMM and laugh at them.

[TnTTnT]

Contest of taste, again?

[TheNoble]

Not really, there are some pretty objective reasons to use MO, and the OP is asking for them.

[Akzyra]

Yes, you are one of the few lucky ones that know how to handle this easily breakable game called Skyrim manually.

Not using a Manager makes things harder, but more controlled if you go slowly.

 

MO makes installing and removing mods so easy, sometimes that can bite me in the ass.

NMM is worse, because you don't have an overview of file conflicts.

 

The only real advantage of MO is: Absolute control over files if done right.

Set up a nice system of MO and other tools. Keep in mind how the Virtual File-system/Overwrite works.

Of course this includes looking in mods and understanding what goes where and how it will impact the game.

 

 

Bottom line is: If you know what you are doing, it will work out for you. Mod managers have their own quirks to learn, but provide fast install and uninstall of mods.

Why change a working System? Unless you plan to reinstall Skyrim and learn working with and understanding MO to the same level you are on "Manual Installation".

[arpaschad]

used NMM the first month of my modding...then after getting 200+ mods and installing large ones such as the All-In-One HDT Pussy NMM, slows down and most of the time freezes...looked at MO and watched all of the tutorials by gopher in using it and my eyes were opened how MO was superior in many ways...but I digress...why use mod organizers?

 

for the simple fact that we want things simplified and not having to copy paste our way to oblivion till the thalmor accept tiber septim as a god...plus with mod organizer, your skyrim directory would be clean as a babies bum...NMM doesn't provide that function but will still save time in installing mods AS LONG AS YOU DON'T GO OVER 200+ mods...

 

so yeah that's about it...if you can install mods in your directory efficiently and can run them without conflict good for you...you're one of the special few who can manage things neatly...most mod users though would just like to plunk down each sex animations they want and see it in skyrim and they need it fast...hence mod organizers...

[PsychoMachina]

Seriously, I have to ask this...

#1  Looking at the technical support section, I come to the conclusion, that using any modmanger makes things only worse. This doesn't work, that conflicts, there seem to be problems that I have never encountered myself. And I am not using any modmanger. (Mostly because NMM didn't work, and I didn't know about MO when I set everything up) 

 

#2  Yes, I have to be twice as careful when installing mods, and check twice if anything gets overwritten or not, and sometimes I even have to backup my whole folder just to be sure that I can go back to a working state if I do something wrong - but then, I backup my folder from time to time anyway, as I am not willing to go through the painful way of reinstalling every mod one by one should I ever get a new computer or stuff. 

 

#3  But - my game runs stable. No crashes, no nothing. Scripts run smoothly, and my game is highly modded and highly scripted. 

 

#4  So, where would be the advantage of using MO? It even makes installing texture packs or similar 'small' mods or addons a pain in the ass. I wouldn't even know where to put SKSE plugins and all that stuff, while I know exactly where to put my stuff in the usual installation folder. 

 

#5  Am I just 'lucky', is it because I know what I am doing, or are modmanagers really as useless and conflict-building as they seem to be in my eyes? 

 

#1  Are much of the problems caused by the mod manager or the user?  Why is encountering problems with a mod manager treated differently than encountering problems with a mod.  If enough people ask for help with a particular mod, especially a very popular one, does it mean that mod is useless and makes things worse?  If people need help with a mod, at what point does it go from "needing x-amount of time and effort to make it work" to "not worth the time and effort".  Would such dedication also apply to a mod manager?

 

#2  You manually install mods and go through such measure to ensure the game remains stable.  The problem(s) is that you go through such measures to ensure the game remain stable.  Nothing wrong with what you are doing if you are willing to put in the time and effort, but if you have that kind of dedication, why not the same when using a mod manager.

If you install a mod and it causes problems, how do you know the root cause if the answer is not already provided by the author.  What steps do you take to fix it, if you deem the mod is worth the trouble?

 

#3  Yes, but...see what you have to do to accomplish all of this (#2).  Again, nothing wrong if that is your preference.  Nothing is written in stone.

 

#4  I install SKSE directly in the Skyrim folder with the scripts in the Data > Scripts folder.  FNIS and Bodyslide are the only other mod (tools) I directly install in the Data folder; that's my preference.

 

MO installs mods in their own folder.  Open MO and you will see two windows, the left side contains the list of mods installed with MO with those on top having top priority (MO virtually runs first) and each mod going down the list having lower priority respectively (MO runs next as it goes down the list).  If Mod X needs to be installed before Mod M (mod M needs to overwrite some of the files from mod X) then from the MO mod list, click and hold on Mod X and move it higher up the list prior to Mod M.  This makes MO run Mod X first then virtually overwrites the files with Mod M.

 

The right side is the Data folder containing the virtually-added masters and plugins and any master/plugin you happen to have installed directly in the Data folder.  If you know what order they need to be then manually correct the order from the list or use LOOT if that is your preference.

 

#4  Luck?  Maybe, maybe not.  I have been using MO for 2+ years and the only problem I encountered was it crashing whenever I start-up MO, but that happened when I was working on some mods that required me to run CK, make changes, close CK, run MO to test mod(s) in game, close game, run CK...rinse and repeat.  Reinstalling MO fixed that problem.

Does this mean I'm lucky when using MO just like you're lucky with your own methods?  Maybe or is it that we know what needs to be done to run a stable game no matter how we approach the same goal.

 

[D_ManXX2]

I have noticed that mostly MO users are having problems. Meanwhile I open up my NMM and laugh at them.

 

Really then why do i see more nmm users complaining about broken stuff ?? When nexus made an update to nmm and broke everything for mod users i was laughing my ass off..

[Zor2k13]

I understand the advantages of MO but the bugs are annoying and time consuming then you are held hostage by MO until they fix it. NMM is a total waste of time just like nexus.

[TanookiTamaTachi]

I use MO.

 

I have a total of about 1600 mods, across over 20 character profiles which each have around 400 mods active.

 

I can't even imagine how that would work without a mod manager.

[Kaz Aanh]

No need to reinstall skyrim at all

 

1 button to save loadorder/mod order

 

separate profiles for different ini settings and mod load orders, easily switchable

 

 

[Comrade Isbariya]

My loadorder is stored in the hidden appdata folder in my userdata.

I just have to save it with all the other stuff and don't have to mess with it anymore.

 

As for NMM: That was the first thing I installed after Skyrim, thinking that a modmanager would be nice. It even found my Oblivion install (I prefer OBMM, but thanks!) but didn't want to find my Skyrim folder. Manual assigning wasn't possible. (for whatever reason >.>) So I had a look at the Nexus, if they have OBMM for Skyrim. No luck, didn't find MO and decided that I wanted to play the game instead of searching for a stupid program. 

 

And when I had a look at the data options the original game provide I thought: Wow, Bethesda learned to provide a 'tool' to adjust load order, one of my most used features in OBMM besides archive invalidation, which I haven#t seen in Skyrim at all) and I thought that was fair enough. 

 

After all OBMM didn't have all the fancy features MO provides either. 

 

The only thing I find quite interesting about MO is that you can integrate tools like BSAopt, DDSopt or TESVEdit and stuff. 

[Guest]

I'm using mod manager (NMM) because it knows installation/uninstallation of mods, manipulation with them better then me.

[winny257]

I'm using mod manager (NMM) because it knows installation/uninstallation of mods, manipulation with them better then me.

 

see you my friend and I am my own manager.

you will by me in * Technical Support * no help thread find, because I've always done all alone.

I have me my game so put together, here every manager would give up the ghost!   

[TheNoble]

My loadorder is stored in the hidden appdata folder in my userdata.

I just have to save it with all the other stuff and don't have to mess with it anymore.

 

As for NMM: That was the first thing I installed after Skyrim, thinking that a modmanager would be nice. It even found my Oblivion install (I prefer OBMM, but thanks!) but didn't want to find my Skyrim folder. Manual assigning wasn't possible. (for whatever reason >.>) So I had a look at the Nexus, if they have OBMM for Skyrim. No luck, didn't find MO and decided that I wanted to play the game instead of searching for a stupid program. 

 

And when I had a look at the data options the original game provide I thought: Wow, Bethesda learned to provide a 'tool' to adjust load order, one of my most used features in OBMM besides archive invalidation, which I haven#t seen in Skyrim at all) and I thought that was fair enough. 

 

After all OBMM didn't have all the fancy features MO provides either. 

 

The only thing I find quite interesting about MO is that you can integrate tools like BSAopt, DDSopt or TESVEdit and stuff. 

 

Virtual file structure is not interesting to you? It's the feature that makes MO Stand out from everything else. 

 

 

Your loadorder text file doesn't explain how mods interact with each other, which ones are dependent on which, and which ones should be loaded when. It also doesn't have the ability to tell which mod installation is overwriting another. I'm really assuming that you're not familiar with Perkus Maximus, or any considerable overhaul like it. You're also probably only using one character. All of this is fine, but it means that your installation is relatively simple, and you probably don't need a mod organizer because you don't change that much.

 

Or you're just being stubborn and somehow believe that having 30 or so extra GB of the entire game duplicated so ever many times over is more efficient than one installation of the game with modorganizer.

 

 

You've seen all of the reasoning at this point, but most of us aren't using NMM, most of us are using Mod Organizer, which is objectively superior to NMM.

[spoonsinger]

bla bla bla...

 

But - my game runs stable. No crashes, no nothing. Scripts run smoothly, and my game is highly modded and highly scripted.

 

bla bla bla....

 

[winny257]

bla bla bla...

 

But - my game runs stable. No crashes, no nothing. Scripts run smoothly, and my game is highly modded and highly scripted.

 

bla bla bla....

 

 

German BLA BLA BLA Song  

 

[pinky6225]

Fancy optional menu's that some authors include and just being lazy, i tried NMM and it has worked for me although i stuck on an old version before they tried to make it over complicated

[Kimy]

I will not get involved into the "my mod manager is better than your mod manager" silliness other than saying that if some people believe there is such a thing as "the best' mod manager, they are sorely mistaken.
Instead I will go ahead and answer the OP's question. Why do people use mod managers at all when they're causing so many issues? Because it's a really good question. And here is the answer: If you really, REALLY know what you're doing and understand every single mod you're ever going to use and you're 100% sure to NEVER EVER going to uninstall or update any mod again...then no, you don't need a mod manager. Just install them in the correct order (you know what you're doing, right?) and be happy. For the rest of us, it's better to use a manager. They -all- have issues, but not using one would usually result in having even MORE issues. There is your reason.

[srayesmanll]

I will not get involved into the "my mod manager is better than your mod manager" silliness other than saying that if some people believe there is such a thing as "the best' mod manager, they are sorely mistaken.

Instead I will go ahead and answer the OP's question. Why do people use mod managers at all when they're causing so many issues? Because it's a really good question. And here is the answer: If you really, REALLY know what you're doing and understand every single mod you're ever going to use and you're 100% sure to NEVER EVER going to uninstall or update any mod again...then no, you don't need a mod manager. Just install them in the correct order (you know what you're doing, right?) and be happy. For the rest of us, it's better to use a manager. They -all- have issues, but not using one would usually result in having even MORE issues. There is your reason.

 

100% agree.

 

And to add for the "when they're causing so many issues" part - most of the problems people have with mods and mod managers are due to the refusal to read the available info on mod managers (like the STEP pages for ModOrganizer - I haven't used NMM since the profile versions were released, but ElfPrince's info is supposedly very helpful).  If people would actually read the instructions available, most problems with mod managers would be averted.

[RenaSan]

Ey. I used no manager when I first started the whole modding my skyrim thing. Took a lot of time but eventually I got the hang of it. Then I tried MO a year, couldn't understand how it worked and just ditched it again.

 

Then when I had some issue I simply couldn't fix I clean installed my skyrim, put everything together manually again with as much care as I could, but no luck. So I decided to stop being a wuss and actually get to understand mod manager

 

Opinions don't matter, but facts do.

 

Fact 1: It took me about half the time to get my skyrim to run stable with the same amount of mods, maybe even only a third of that.

Fact 2: I found a few mod conflicts and it only took me a drag of my mouse to fix them. So that's probably about 10 times faster than doing it manually.

Fact 3: A lot of mods have custom menu's with optional addons and files. Best example is XPMSE, I simply have to click next, next, select the custom animation sets I use, then next again. Tralalala, easy peasy. Again about 2-3 times faster than manually implementing this.

Fact 4: I have some different mod sets depending on which character I play, to change sets (profiles) I simply need to activate a drop down menu and choose the one I want. I even keep a 'sex free' profile just in case for my absolutely normal skyrim playthrough (no adult mods only).

 

So, in conclusion. No, using Mod Manager isn't better. You don't achieve things that you can't also achieve manually. It also doesn't disable stupidity and needs some getting used to. Users will make mistakes, disregard overwrite or compability warnings, etc. 

 

But.

 

Mod Organizer is 5 times faster than doing things manually. So why not stop being a whining b*!%& and use it. 

[cecik]

'Why do you use modmanagers at all?

 

Just for one simple reason: Because i'm lazy ....

modmanagers (if you understand how to use them) make your (modding) life so much easier

 

[BlaineSensei]

it will take 32 days and alot of space to backup the 50 gb game on my pc

 

cant use mo , coz it slows the fuck out of the game

 

nmm is best until someone provides me with a better alternative than wryebash