Paradise Halls Enhanced (pahe) repacked with the customary addons

[DonQuiWho]

7 hours ago, TheRightDoorIsNotTheLeft said:

I ran FNIS before starting this new game. No errors or warnings in FNIS.

Had you used anything with a paralysis effect on the NPC?

[CliftonJD]

15 hours ago, TheRightDoorIsNotTheLeft said:

Has anyone experienced this kind of nightmare fuel? This is an absolutely new game with Home Sweet Home and the Bondage House also installed. This symptom appeared in Lakeview Manor (where I had my house cell set up). Now it's happening with a Solstheim slave that I just captured and placed in the Bondage House. After sex, she started to go all Exorcist on me, flapping around like a fish flopping on the boat desk and floating in the air. I figured I'd stop it by tying her up. She eventually floated to the floor. The screenshot does not capture the fact that's still twitching in hyper speed like some horror show monster. Any ideas what could be causing this?

 

 

did you use the bondage house spell to bring the slave there or did you use the pahe method from debug in mcm....don't know for certain yet if it matters, but gathering info to possible causes since i don't know if the spell method would cause the animation issue you're experiencing. dunno yet, but guessing its a possible link between the spell used from bondage house and spell effects given by the solsteim quests

[TheRightDoorIsNotTheLeft]

13 hours ago, donkeywho said:

Had you used anything with a paralysis effect on the NPC?

That's how I disabled the npc before enslaving.

[TheRightDoorIsNotTheLeft]

6 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

did you use the bondage house spell to bring the slave there or did you use the pahe method from debug in mcm....don't know for certain yet if it matters, but gathering info to possible causes since i don't know if the spell method would cause the animation issue you're experiencing. dunno yet, but guessing its a possible link between the spell used from bondage house and spell effects given by the solsteim quests

I used the bondage house spell.

[DonQuiWho]

14 minutes ago, TheRightDoorIsNotTheLeft said:

That's how I disabled the npc before enslaving.

I occasionally get somewhat similar weird effects with paralysis items

 

Have you got Defeat installed?  If you have, try grabbing someone using the Player Aggressor tools, tie them up, and then, while posed like that, kill them with an arrow laced with paralysis poison and see what happens to them.  It would be interesting to see if you get any odd effects. 

 

I've also seen similar PC/NPC contortions when they have gone into bleedout with DAYMOYL (and Defeat) in the LO

 

 

 

 

[CliftonJD]

5 hours ago, donkeywho said:

I occasionally get somewhat similar weird effects with paralysis items

 

Have you got Defeat installed?  If you have, try grabbing someone using the Player Aggressor tools, tie them up, and then, while posed like that, kill them with an arrow laced with paralysis poison and see what happens to them.  It would be interesting to see if you get any odd effects. 

 

I've also seen similar PC/NPC contortions when they have gone into bleedout with DAYMOYL (and Defeat) in the LO

 

 

 

 

sounds like you're describing an animation being played as an animation dis-abler when the victim soon to be slave gets paralyzed. if the slave is already in the sl defeat sack, the paralysis animation is disabled by the sack. when you add that to the daymoyl effects, the most common explanation for it is the "ragdoll" effect but the current xpmse includes a more upto date version of the ragdoll fixer so in the case of it...it becomes check that you've installed xpmse proper And that the body type matches the bodyslde files for the skin and the armors and all of that gets even more complicated if its a custom race that has its own custom meshes. custom races with their own custom meshes will additionally need skeleton files installed in those locations

 

Oh And the ragdoll fixer is a replacer/conflict for the current xpmse, do Not run both in any form as even the scripts of the ragdoll replacer have become to far out of date for the current xpmse

[CliftonJD]

hopefully i didn't confuse even more trying to explain that, it took me years to figure out that xpmse had mastered everything that needed to be done with the ragdoll mod enough to the point that the original mod became a conflict

 

(more than likely they tried to make it backwords compatible and slowly phased out the old stuff over time, but i'm just guessing there)

[DonQuiWho]

7 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

hopefully i didn't confuse even more trying to explain that, it took me years to figure out that xpmse had mastered everything that needed to be done with the ragdoll mod enough to the point that the original mod became a conflict

 

(more than likely they tried to make it backwords compatible and slowly phased out the old stuff over time, but i'm just guessing there)

I think I understand you to say just to use XPMSE without any other ragdoll mods?

 

I've had a look at my current game and I also have ....

 

- Realistic Ragdolls and Force Plugin Files Only (esp)-601-1-9 Realistic esp selected

- Ragdoll Paralysis Redux-83716-1-0

 

.... high up in my LH Pane MO Mod Order

 

Are you saying that I don't need these?  I think I tried without Ragdoll Paralysis but the present version of XPMSE (not using the esp) still made the NPCs fall over 'as hard as a board', ie with no ragdoll effect

 

I took this general issue up on the HSH thread about a year ago when I started getting this Defeat/Death/Paralysis oddness.  Took it up there as the HDT chains started to play up too,

 

To try to be short.

 

If I killed someone tied up by Defeat, their corpse would float into the sky.  If killed with a paralysis applied weapon, they might not just float, but try to exit the stage left or right very quickly too

 

An NPC that was killed with a paralysis applied weapon and now floating, would gently return to earth if I tried to video the scene with FRAPs as the game framerate dropped from 60fps to FRAPs' 30fps

 

Heres examples

 

Floating upwards after death.  Agnis meets her end outside the Dark Brotherhood Lair

 

Returning to earth as game framerate reduces

 

 

Furthermore, whilst I had some time ago played earlier games where the HSH 'HDT chains' worked perfectly with the games enslaved NPCs, first I couldn't get them to attach to NPCs at alll in later games.  Then when I worked out that I could get the 'Attach' menu to show if I first hit an PAH>HSH enslaved NPC with a 1 damage pt whip to which I had applied a paralysis poison.  But I then started getting NPCs 'moonwalking' and doing all sorts of other 'flying around' the place.  As an example of this weirdnessm see:

 

 

Is any of this the sort of thing you anticipate happening from your description / understanding of the XPMSE/Ragdoll etc issue you mentioned?

 

If there is something simple I may have missed, if it's easy to explain/suggest something to do, fine

 

If not, please feel free to just ignore this!  Skyrim's a strange game at the best of times and some things are so obscure that they are really probably not worth trying to understand, let alone fix, and I really wouldn't want you to waste your time, when there's better things you can be doing in PAHE, not to mention RL!!

 

Thanks again for the initial replies, and for making PAHE such a fun mod to play with  ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CliftonJD]

2 hours ago, donkeywho said:

I think I understand you to say just to use XPMSE without any other ragdoll mods?

 

I've had a look at my current game and I also have ....

 

- Realistic Ragdolls and Force Plugin Files Only (esp)-601-1-9 Realistic esp selected

- Ragdoll Paralysis Redux-83716-1-0

 

.... high up in my LH Pane MO Mod Order

 

Are you saying that I don't need these?  I think I tried without Ragdoll Paralysis but the present version of XPMSE (not using the esp) still made the NPCs fall over 'as hard as a board', ie with no ragdoll effect

 

I took this general issue up on the HSH thread about a year ago when I started getting this Defeat/Death/Paralysis oddness.  Took it up there as the HDT chains started to play up too,

 

To try to be short.

 

If I killed someone tied up by Defeat, their corpse would float into the sky.  If killed with a paralysis applied weapon, they might not just float, but try to exit the stage left or right very quickly too

 

An NPC that was killed with a paralysis applied weapon and now floating, would gently return to earth if I tried to video the scene with FRAPs as the game framerate dropped from 60fps to FRAPs' 30fps

 

Heres examples

 

Floating upwards after death.  Agnis meets her end outside the Dark Brotherhood Lair

 

200820 Agnis tied up by Defeat - floats when dead.avi 84.22 MB · 0 downloads

 

Returning to earth as game framerate reduces

 

 

200820 Dead NPC floats to ground when FRAPS takes game to 30fps.avi 38.44 MB · 0 downloads

 

Furthermore, whilst I had some time ago played earlier games where the HSH 'HDT chains' worked perfectly with the games enslaved NPCs, first I couldn't get them to attach to NPCs at alll in later games.  Then when I worked out that I could get the 'Attach' menu to show if I first hit an PAH>HSH enslaved NPC with a 1 damage pt whip to which I had applied a paralysis poison.  But I then started getting NPCs 'moonwalking' and doing all sorts of other 'flying around' the place.  As an example of this weirdnessm see:

 

 

200820 Application HSH HDT chains - NPC walks on ceiling.avi 62.88 MB · 0 downloads

 

Is any of this the sort of thing you anticipate happening from your description / understanding of the XPMSE/Ragdoll etc issue you mentioned?

 

If there is something simple I may have missed, if it's easy to explain/suggest something to do, fine

 

If not, please feel free to just ignore this!  Skyrim's a strange game at the best of times and some things are so obscure that they are really probably not worth trying to understand, let alone fix, and I really wouldn't want you to waste your time, when there's better things you can be doing in PAHE, not to mention RL!!

 

Thanks again for the initial replies, and for making PAHE such a fun mod to play with  ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

i wasn't aware there were 2 mods that effected the ragdoll conditions. the realistic ragdolls and force is included as a part of the xpmse mod. likely need the xpmse esp running and not the older realistic ragdolls. iirc it was just the skeleton and esp's to worry about there so atleast it won't take much to clean those out.

 

the moonwalk is listed as a known issue with ragdoll paralysis with its latest update claiming to have fixed it. possible that the broken ragdolls of realistic force are causing the conflict here. definitely need to experiment with this as it might be enough to remove realistic ragdolls to get ragdoll paralysis or it might require those changes on a new save...Or if that still don't fix it, you'll have to remove ragdoll paralysis until it updates again.

 

hdt chains might also have other known issues in previous versions of dd if you experienced those issues on older saves. hdt needs the ragdoll effects to stop bugging and it needs current dd running on a save that's newer than the date it last updated. hard to explain the severity of the bugs that were fixed in dd with that update. once all the above listed bugs are fixed, its a matter of running a current version of hdt with an hdt skeleton and hdt body with hdt armor<<very important not to mix with bbp as that too will have yet another impact

 

edit:

almost forgot custom races need the above hdt body and hdt skeleton manually searched to install properly or check that its already managed proper

[DonQuiWho]

9 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

i wasn't aware there were 2 mods that effected the ragdoll conditions. the realistic ragdolls and force is included as a part of the xpmse mod. likely need the xpmse esp running and not the older realistic ragdolls. iirc it was just the skeleton and esp's to worry about there so atleast it won't take much to clean those out.

 

the moonwalk is listed as a known issue with ragdoll paralysis with its latest update claiming to have fixed it. possible that the broken ragdolls of realistic force are causing the conflict here. definitely need to experiment with this as it might be enough to remove realistic ragdolls to get ragdoll paralysis or it might require those changes on a new save...Or if that still don't fix it, you'll have to remove ragdoll paralysis until it updates again.

 

hdt chains might also have other known issues in previous versions of dd if you experienced those issues on older saves. hdt needs the ragdoll effects to stop bugging and it needs current dd running on a save that's newer than the date it last updated. hard to explain the severity of the bugs that were fixed in dd with that update. once all the above listed bugs are fixed, its a matter of running a current version of hdt with an hdt skeleton and hdt body with hdt armor<<very important not to mix with bbp as that too will have yet another impact

 

edit:

almost forgot custom races need the above hdt body and hdt skeleton manually searched to install properly or check that its already managed proper

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to provide the very full replies!

 

I think this current game is probably too far gone to be able to fix these particular issues, given a quick scan of the content of other mods for some of the things you mentioned that I had never thought might be issues ?

 

FWIW, when I was first trying to muddle my way through these things - I'm merely a journeyman player, not an artisan techie - when I took those videos, I did try the more modern ragdoll paralysis mod, in all its versions,  My 'perception' at the time was that they made for little difference, despite the author hoping that he'd fixed the 'moonwalk', so this game I actually started with the original as I was using it before, when things seemed more stable

 

You've given me some very useful suggestions, thanks, which I'll try to incorporate from the start in my next game, and see how they play in a very minimalist set up before adding niceties.  I'm right on the mod limit now, and deconstructing what I have is only likely to end in tears..... LOL

 

Again, many thanks for your time and help

 

PS:  Just to add to the pot, there's also a mod on this site called 'Flimsy Ragdolls'.  People are falling over themselves trying to bring us all down.... ? 

[TheRightDoorIsNotTheLeft]

On 8/19/2020 at 8:31 PM, CliftonJD said:

sounds like you're describing an animation being played as an animation dis-abler when the victim soon to be slave gets paralyzed. if the slave is already in the sl defeat sack, the paralysis animation is disabled by the sack. when you add that to the daymoyl effects, the most common explanation for it is the "ragdoll" effect but the current xpmse includes a more upto date version of the ragdoll fixer so in the case of it...it becomes check that you've installed xpmse proper And that the body type matches the bodyslde files for the skin and the armors and all of that gets even more complicated if its a custom race that has its own custom meshes. custom races with their own custom meshes will additionally need skeleton files installed in those locations

 

Oh And the ragdoll fixer is a replacer/conflict for the current xpmse, do Not run both in any form as even the scripts of the ragdoll replacer have become to far out of date for the current xpmse

I always make sure that my FNIS and XPMSE are the latest available version. I don't have ragdoll installed. In my case, I saved immediately after making my screenshot, closed to desktop, restarted and it went back to normal. I do have Fresh Women installed so the bandits don't look like they got smacked with the ugly stick. Whether that makes a "custom race" I don't know, but it was definitely a mer and not a beast race.

[CliftonJD]

10 hours ago, TheRightDoorIsNotTheLeft said:

I always make sure that my FNIS and XPMSE are the latest available version. I don't have ragdoll installed. In my case, I saved immediately after making my screenshot, closed to desktop, restarted and it went back to normal. I do have Fresh Women installed so the bandits don't look like they got smacked with the ugly stick. Whether that makes a "custom race" I don't know, but it was definitely a mer and not a beast race.

that's an sse mod

[Reverendmax]

i didnt find anything on farenghars desk 

[CliftonJD]

1 hour ago, Reverendmax said:

i didnt find anything on farenghars desk 

check that you have farengars study activated

[Chibitan]

Hello,

 

I'm still having the issue with the slaves not doing anything for me once I ask them to through the "ok slave..." dialog. I have some with 100 obedience and even 100 respect and they tell me "I don't have to take that from you!". Once their mood is Afraid they do it but with 100 Fear training they tend to not be afraid of me..

 

Saying still because a few pages back it was stated to be fixed but no matter what I do they refuse to obey me.

 

I'm playing the latest version (7.4.1), am I doing something wrong or am I missing something? Sorry if it's a stupid question, I don't know much about modding. ?

 

Would appreciate some help there

[Psalam]

57 minutes ago, Chibitan said:

Hello,

 

I'm still having the issue with the slaves not doing anything for me once I ask them to through the "ok slave..." dialog. I have some with 100 obedience and even 100 respect and they tell me "I don't have to take that from you!". Once their mood is Afraid they do it but with 100 Fear training they tend to not be afraid of me..

 

Saying still because a few pages back it was stated to be fixed but no matter what I do they refuse to obey me.

 

I'm playing the latest version (7.4.1), am I doing something wrong or am I missing something? Sorry if it's a stupid question, I don't know much about modding. ?

 

Would appreciate some help there

Try using the console to improve their relationshiprank.

[深淵の神]

A new update! Hell yeah! I'll give it a try. I remember something about working in a reward system, Is it working now?

[Chibitan]

5 hours ago, Psalam said:

Try using the console to improve their relationshiprank.

Didn't work, sadly.

 

 

Also, another thing now that I was training another slave. Is there a way to easier increase Respect and Anger? If I'm lucky I get Respect to 80 and very rarely to over 90. I got one slave actually at 100 but he still refuses to respectfully talk to me so might be bugged out ? but around Respect 65 the slaves tend to stop being disrespectful, same for angry if obedience is high enough.

 

Maybe I'm missing something in the training or do something wrong..

[CliftonJD]

22 hours ago, Psalam said:

Try using the console to improve their relationshiprank.

1 of these days i need to see about changing that so its either not based on relationship or has additional options based on training

19 hours ago, サマエル said:

A new update! Hell yeah! I'll give it a try. I remember something about working in a reward system, Is it working now?

not sure i understand what reward system you're asking about.

 slave sex to others was a reward system we tried once, but failed at the dialog getting the names. might look into rewriting that some day

19 hours ago, Chibitan said:

Didn't work, sadly.

 

 

Also, another thing now that I was training another slave. Is there a way to easier increase Respect and Anger? If I'm lucky I get Respect to 80 and very rarely to over 90. I got one slave actually at 100 but he still refuses to respectfully talk to me so might be bugged out ? but around Respect 65 the slaves tend to stop being disrespectful, same for angry if obedience is high enough.

 

Maybe I'm missing something in the training or do something wrong..

built-in support with higher training features for devious devices. 1 of the training features is the increased training of gagged slaves

i need to look into fixing the dialogues for more respectful slaves to stop being disrespectful.

[Chibitan]

33 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

built-in support with higher training features for devious devices. 1 of the training features is the increased training of gagged slaves

i need to look into fixing the dialogues for more respectful slaves to stop being disrespectful.

Yes I read about the Gags, so I use them too. Okay, thought I was doing something wrong.

[CliftonJD]

On 8/22/2020 at 1:49 PM, Psalam said:

Try using the console to improve their relationshiprank.

 

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

1 of these days i need to see about changing that so its either not based on relationship or has additional options based on training

 

rechecked the dialog conditions, tho its called a favor topic, its not based on relationship.

On 8/22/2020 at 12:51 PM, Chibitan said:

I'm still having the issue with the slaves not doing anything for me once I ask them to through the "ok slave..." dialog. I have some with 100 obedience and even 100 respect and they tell me "I don't have to take that from you!". Once their mood is Afraid they do it but with 100 Fear training they tend to not be afraid of me..

angry slaves with less than 30 submission will object with immediate dialog to punish them. scared slaves automatically do as their told. unangry slaves with submission 40 or above do as their told. the problem seems to be that the dialog responses are setup to always object when angry. 1 of the conditions calls for 80 submision when not angry, going to change that to no longer based on emotion for slaves with that much submission (goes into next update already in beta)

[Fake438]

Is this mod actually compatible with  TDF Prostitution and Pimping? Im asking because when I install both all the everything is stuck in a perpetual t-pose. 

[Chibitan]

3 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

Angry slaves with less than 30 submission will object with immediate dialog to punish them. scared slaves automatically do as their told. unangry slaves with submission 40 or above do as their told. the problem seems to be that the dialog responses are setup to always object when angry. 1 of the conditions calls for 80 submision when not angry, going to change that to no longer based on emotion for slaves with that much submission (goes into next update already in beta)

Oh! Nice, thank you for your hard work.

[CliftonJD]

2 hours ago, Fake438 said:

Is this mod actually compatible with  TDF Prostitution and Pimping? Im asking because when I install both all the everything is stuck in a perpetual t-pose. 

t-pose is usually an fnis issue, but yes the 2 are compatible and no that bug isn't normal tdf and pahe behavior

1 hour ago, Chibitan said:

Oh! Nice, thank you for your hard work.

?

[tinkerbelle]

7 hours ago, Fake438 said:

Is this mod actually compatible with  TDF Prostitution and Pimping? Im asking because when I install both all the everything is stuck in a perpetual t-pose. 

I run both and have no t-pose problems.  Like CliftonJD said, make certain you have run fnis.