Paradise Halls Enhanced (pahe) repacked with the customary addons

[lennon77]

 

1 hour ago, sidfu said:

instances like that are nearly always the processe bugged ad the player just ignored that and enslave like before and all future salves bugged.

 

@lennon77 whenever you enslave make sure
1. save before hand
2. saVe again
3. once you enslave if yuou feel like any part of the process bugged reloada the save.
4. if you dont get the dialoge your gonna wear this immeditaly reload save. that slave is bugged and will nearly always bug any future slave.

5. if they a mod npc saVe,save,save 99 times then test they can enslve right. mod event npc are notorious for bugging pahe

 

I usually do so, but the thing here is that these are not recently enslaved NPCs, the two affected slaves have been properly functioning for several hours of gameplay. Could the enslavement of other NPCs have affected the previously enslaved NPCs?

 

2 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

yes a papyrus log is essential in these matters and possibly is there anything special about thes 2 npc's that you know of that we could learn about why they would have these problems

 

I will post a Papyrus log later this afternoon after I finish work. In the meantime, I can specify the two NPCs. Nothing special about them, one is Anska, who I enslaved after completing her quest, and the other is a random Breton bandit I enslaved after fighting. As mentioned above, they have both been enslaved and were working properly for some time before I encountered this issue.

[CliftonJD]

15 hours ago, lennon77 said:

the two in question are not responding to commands (ex. will not follow me if asked).

2 hours ago, lennon77 said:

one is Anska, who I enslaved after completing her quest

wiki on her says "After the completion of the related quest, she will remain in the ruins indefinitely attempting to decipher the scroll.".

her class is also listed as a bandit wizard so if the random Breton bandit came from the same location, she might have similar issues

3 hours ago, lennon77 said:

the two affected slaves have been properly functioning for several hours of gameplay.

some bugs are able to hide inactive until the game exits to desktop and reloads

3 hours ago, lennon77 said:

I will post a Papyrus log later this afternoon after I finish work.

hopefully the log shows something workable, so far doesn't look promising

[lennon77]

1 hour ago, CliftonJD said:

wiki on her says "After the completion of the related quest, she will remain in the ruins indefinitely attempting to decipher the scroll.".

her class is also listed as a bandit wizard so if the random Breton bandit came from the same location, she might have similar issues

some bugs are able to hide inactive until the game exits to desktop and reloads

hopefully the log shows something workable, so far doesn't look promising

 

If by location you mean the same physical location within the game world, then no they are not. But I had not put together that the two might be from the same class and that that could be the issue.

 

I have attached the papyrus.0.log.txt. I entered the game, tried twice to get anska to follow me, and then tried twice to open Anska's slave info through the MCM menu and then exited the game.

 

Thanks for the help.

Papyrus.0.log

[CliftonJD]

1 hour ago, lennon77 said:

 

If by location you mean the same physical location within the game world, then no they are not. But I had not put together that the two might be from the same class and that that could be the issue.

 

I have attached the papyrus.0.log.txt. I entered the game, tried twice to get anska to follow me, and then tried twice to open Anska's slave info through the MCM menu and then exited the game.

 

Thanks for the help.

Papyrus.0.log 17.95 kB · 0 downloads

unfortunately only thing in the log is slight evidence of previous mods removed giving script issues, but even those appear to be minor. anska's script is small enough, its only designed to track her stages along her quest and track her death as a failure in the quest.

 

i wonder if the only solution in her case is to kill her and her partner, but he's not even the same race. if he's not a mage, i don't see the connection. if they both mages, she could be effecting her base template

try this:

On 9/7/2020 at 5:10 PM, sidfu said:

did u know u can enslave  people after they dead?

1.  turn over their body so u face their back
2. sneak
3. hit the mark for enslave.
3. wait a few sec
4. hit it again
5. now talk to them and enslave

and boom u have brought the dead backand enslaved them.
so far ive not noticed any side effects of it and tbh seems to work better than normal enslavemet

[lennon77]

56 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

unfortunately only thing in the log is slight evidence of previous mods removed giving script issues, but even those appear to be minor. anska's script is small enough, its only designed to track her stages along her quest and track her death as a failure in the quest.

 

i wonder if the only solution in her case is to kill her and her partner, but he's not even the same race. if he's not a mage, i don't see the connection. if they both mages, she could be effecting her base template

try this:

It might work but the thing is that when I kill them they actually stay on my slave list. I forgot to mention this before, I tried killing them but they stayed on my slave list all the same.

 

I ended up actually finding a save file where the slaves are functional, and where I had lost very little progress, so I think im just going to go with that.

 

Thanks all the same for trying to help me!

[CliftonJD]

1 hour ago, lennon77 said:

It might work but the thing is that when I kill them they actually stay on my slave list. I forgot to mention this before, I tried killing them but they stayed on my slave list all the same.

 

I ended up actually finding a save file where the slaves are functional, and where I had lost very little progress, so I think im just going to go with that.

 

Thanks all the same for trying to help me!

welcome

[CliftonJD]

On 10/12/2020 at 3:40 AM, kohlteth said:

 

Sorry if someone has asked before, but Fear and Anger stats, they missing for a reason from HSH? I ask as they so hard to train, would be great to be able to get other slaves trained in it from ones high already, please. 

 

21 hours ago, tinkerbelle said:

Fear and Anger are things I don't recall seeing an official write up about and I can't say I understand them at all.  However, I suspect they do affect your slave if they are transferred from HomeSweetHome (HSH) back to ParadiseHalls (PAHE).  Some slaves transferred back to PAHE are compliant, some are bitchy, rebellious, etc., even when they were trained to 100 in all HSH available stats.

 

Since I don't understand what fear and anger do in PAHE, this is a guess/wish list, but I'd think that when fear is untrained, a slave might tend to be rebellious, talk-back, and so on.  If someone knows what they do, I'd like to hear it (or have a pointer to the explanation).  When fear is trained to 100%, they would be compliant, eager to please, etc.  Perhaps trained with unannounced whippings or left in BSDM furniture for long periods.

 

Anger would be similar, maybe averaged with fear.  Trained the same, but perhaps add extra sex training.  Or maybe a gifting dialogue line could be added ("Here's a sweet roll for being a good slave"), praise instead of pain, removal from BSDM furniture or removal of the worst devious devices and so on.

 

Anyway, I love your additions to PAHE with HomeSweetHome and AndYouGetASlave and use them in any play through.

 

my original post in the hsh thread:

15 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

musje's assessment of those stats about sums it up really, those 2 are only an alternative means for acquiring submission without sex. the dialogues of the slave have no reflection on the training level of those stats, but instead on their current emotion. the slaves that still rebel with submission and respect maxed out do so by a glitch in the framework in regards to respect training being attached to a respectful faction at some point. originally the respect could only get maxed out thru a bug, but it is possible thru hsh training to then share maxed out training. i'm not certain yet, but i think sharing respect training past 80 with other slaves could be similar to spreading a virus. if i understand the bug well enough, the slave would normally reach the respectful faction as its being trained for respect but once a respect bugged slave trains another slave, you no longer have the option to train it proper

to think the fear training stat was only revealed as a feature to explain where all the training was going when it wasn't being put into anger. it was originally hidden

didn't look deep enough for an informed answer:

19 hours ago, Psalam said:

Frankly, the only people who care are the ones that just have to complete everything. In my opinion, what makes the most sense is simply to get rid of the category (or at least no longer display it to the player). That will not impact the game play and will allow the completionists to be happy since they won't see anything that they can't get to 100.

felglow slave camp uses this formula to judge slave values:

Spoiler

   

    Float fTrainMod = 1.0
    fTrainMod *= ((slave.GetFactionRank(PAHSubmission) / 60.0) + 0.34)
    fTrainMod += (slave.GetFactionRank(PAHTrainAnger) / 200.0)
    fTrainMod += (slave.GetFactionRank(PAHTrainCombat) / 100.0)
    fTrainMod += (slave.GetFactionRank(PAHTrainSex) / 100.0)
    fTrainMod += (slave.GetFactionRank(PAHTrainRespect) / 150.0)
    fTrainMod += (slave.GetFactionRank(PAHTrainPose) / 200.0)
    fTrainMod += ((slave.GetFactionRank(PAHTrainFear) / 60.0) + 0.34)
    TrainingRating = 0
    
    Float fWeightMod = (slave.GetLeveledActorBase().GetWeight() / 50.0) + 0.5

    Value = Math.Ceiling((slave.GetBaseAv("health") + slave.GetBaseAv("magicka") + slave.GetBaseAv("stamina")) * RaceSexMultiplier * OverallValueMultiplier * fTrainMod * fWeightMod)

 

 

in addition the slavemind uses this formula to determine what those values do for a slave:

Spoiler

Float Function ChanceFightForPlayer()
    if !slave.should_fight_for_player
        return 0.0
    endif
    Float chance = 0.5 + (slave.combat_training / 200)
    chance = chance * (0.5 + (SubmissionChanceMultiplier() * 0.7))
    chance = chance * (1 + (RecentlyPunishedChanceMultiplier(30.0) * 0.8))
    return chance
EndFunction

Float Function ChanceAngry()
    return ((anger_rating)/100) * (1.0 - (slave.anger_training / 100))
EndFunction

Float Function ChanceAfraid()
    return ((fear_rating)/100)
EndFunction

Float Function ChanceRecoverFromAfraid()
    Float chance = (fear_rating + 10) / 100
    chance = chance * RecentlyPunishedChanceMultiplier(inverted = true)
    return chance
EndFunction

Float Function ChanceRespectful()
    if !slave.should_be_respectful
        return 0.0
    endif
    Float chance = (((slave.respect_training + 10) * 1.6) / 110)
    chance = chance * SubmissionChanceMultiplier()
    if mood == "angry"
        chance = chance * 0.60
    endif
    chance = chance * (1 + (RecentlyPunishedChanceMultiplier(30.0) * 0.8))
    return chance
EndFunction

 

by that formula the fear rating effects the chance to be afraid and the chances to recover from being afraid while anger training effects the chance to be angry. next it gives conditions for the emotion anger to effect the chance to be respectful and additional conditions exist in the dialogs for how the slave will respond based on their emotions

15 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

musje's assessment of those stats about sums it up really, those 2 are only an alternative means for acquiring submission without sex. the dialogues of the slave have no reflection on the training level of those stats, but instead on their current emotion. the slaves that still rebel with submission and respect maxed out do so by a glitch in the framework in regards to respect training being attached to a respectful faction at some point. originally the respect could only get maxed out thru a bug, but it is possible thru hsh training to then share maxed out training. i'm not certain yet, but i think sharing respect training past 80 with other slaves could be similar to spreading a virus. if i understand the bug well enough, the slave would normally reach the respectful faction as its being trained for respect but once a respect bugged slave trains another slave, you no longer have the option to train it proper

 

i forgot devious gags also effect the respect training so 80 is no longer the cap on respectful slaves (excluding bugged slaves to 100)

3 hours ago, Psalam said:

And, to belabor the point, it probably shouldn't be visible now. ?

pros:

20 hours ago, Psalam said:

will allow the completionists to be happy since they won't see anything that they can't get to 100.

cons:

• emotions effect how the slave responds to the player and the training values of those emotions effect the chance for them to occur
• some players like to see the explanations why 1 slave would be more valuable to jarrek than another

On 10/12/2020 at 7:24 AM, Musje said:

I just never bothered implementing them. The others (submission, obedience, sex, combat, posing) are used to determine the capabilities of a slave. Fear and Anger would be more relevant to the temperament of a slave, but that's something I never implemented. I would also think Fear, Anger, and Sex (not sexual proficiency, but training through sex) would be kind of mutually exclusive; if you train through fear, then anger and sex will play a smaller role in the slave's temperament. They wouldn't be simple stats you train up to 100

 

I'm open to ideas on how to train and adjust these stats, and how it would affect the slaves behaviour

moving this discussion from hsh to the pahe thread to get a wider audience

 

 

its alot easier to hide those values than it was to unhide them if that's what the majority would prefer.

this is the chance for users to vote to hide emotion training values or keep them as they are and pass along any suggestions for hsh changes

[Psalam]

4 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

felglow slave camp uses this formula to judge slave values:

With AYGAS and HSH does anyone still use it?

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Psalam said:

With AYGAS and HSH does anyone still use it?

Not me, because it also collides a bit with More Bandit Camps and causes some fights between slavers and bandits. Don't forget to pull the nearby dragon to make the chaos perfect. ???⚔️

[tinkerbelle]

1 hour ago, Psalam said:

With AYGAS and HSH does anyone still use it?

These days I use AYGAS (AndYouGetASlave) and HSH (HomeSweetHome) almost exclusively (I keep some as eye candy) as opposed to the Fellglow Slaver Camp for selling and using slaves.  When I first used ParadiseHalls, I used the Fellglow camp, but I somehow found it disappointing.  Perhaps one thing I like about AYGAS is that you can see the slaves you've sold following their master/mistress or doing things for them.  If I recall, Fellglow camp sold slaves disappear or maybe they just stood there.  Also, you get more from AYGAS for selling a slave than from the Fellglow Camp.

 

Oh, I also used the HSH auction at first, but now it's all AYGAS.

 

[fred200]

Keep showing emotion training values. Maybe do more with them.

On Felglow slave camp - I always found it problematic. I have not used it - in years.

[CliftonJD]

 

9 hours ago, Psalam said:

With AYGAS and HSH does anyone still use it?

i've gotten enough requests for it in the se thread:

On 4/18/2020 at 5:01 PM, TheLoverLabCriminal said:

the mod is missing felglow slave camp so how can we sell if there no felglow slave camp ? @CliftonJDcan u add it ?

 

this will likely happen soon or next update

7 hours ago, fred200 said:

Keep showing emotion training values. Maybe do more with them.

On Felglow slave camp - I always found it problematic. I have not used it - in years.

in se, the silent fuz topics don't work like oldrim so hsh auctions sit there seemingly forever silent. i'll use aygas for selling any randoms that don't need to be trained to sell. but once i need to train them, jarrek pays more for them. thank you for your emotional input

[fred200]

4 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

 

thank you for your emotional input

I barely even whimpered...

 

[netruss1964]

Not to be as emotional as Fred, No on Fellglow ( not any more.) and Meh on emotional training stats. Put together something that works and I will use it and thank you. Should I have any deeper thoughts I will mumble behind Fred and blame him. Thank you for your contributions.

[donttouchmethere]

OMGZ it's missing! ?

Is that normal behavior or did I mess up somewhere?

Is PAHE Extended sex training TDF-P related?

Spoiler

 

[sidfu]

the sex tranin gis for the PAHE sexllab esp.

 

[donttouchmethere]

2 hours ago, sidfu said:

the sex tranin gis for the PAHE sexllab esp.

 

Does that translate to:

If paradise_halls_SLExtension.esp can't be found by PAHE it will be shown as "PAHE Extended sex training: missing" in MCM

 

EDIT:

Yes, that was the issue. I merged paradise_halls_SLExtension.esp and some other PAHE plugin patches and PAHE doesn't like that... AT ALL!

[netruss1964]

BAD BOY!

 

[CliftonJD]

12 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

Does that translate to:

If paradise_halls_SLExtension.esp can't be found by PAHE it will be shown as "PAHE Extended sex training: missing" in MCM

 

EDIT:

Yes, that was the issue. I merged paradise_halls_SLExtension.esp and some other PAHE plugin patches and PAHE doesn't like that... AT ALL!

lol, we just went over that with somebody else using bash

[LynxFirenze]

This is probably an ID10T problem. I admit but I recently reinstalled Skyrim and I've been trying to make this mod work again (The OG mod was one of my earliest installs way way back in the day and has been in my installs literally ever since). Whenever I start a game the Slave Camp Tracker quest from (I think) Home Sweet Home starts up but the PAHE one doesn't. 

Opening MCM it says "Unknown, Click to restart". When I click it it seemingly boots up fine enough but I can't change any of the settings under the enslavement tab and whenever I try to enslave someone the only option is "Cancel Enslavement". 

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that there's something interfering with the scripts but I have absolutely 0 idea what. If it helps I'm using the latest MO2 with the modlist here: https://modwat.ch/u/LynxFirenze Help would be appreciated. Perhaps there's something blatant that I'm missing and I'm an idiot.

[donttouchmethere]

9 hours ago, CliftonJD said:

lol, we just went over that with somebody else using bash

Bash doesn't merge PAHE esp into the bashed patch automatically (usually only merges esp of patches), or at least not the bash version I used (307-5.7). Guess there is some confusion of bash patch and Tes5edit merged patch (to solve conflicts, not to merge the esp or mod files, combine esp changes without merging the esp, thus changing it name)

I merged with Merge Plugins (to reduce Plugin amount), because I saw no mod that used it as obvious master. It's one of those try and error merge esp ^^

Basically changing the esp name is bad in this case.

 

Bash Patch shows mods in green those esp can be merged in to the bash patch.

It's different to merging/conflict resolution of esp entries.

(BOX SCB for example is a MERGE PLUGIN merge, not a bashed patch esp merge)

So far I saw only one conflict between pahe and other mods in my LO and bashed patch solved that conflict => PAHE/SIC/any other mod that makes changes on SIC

Spoiler

 

[CliftonJD]

4 hours ago, LynxFirenze said:

This is probably an ID10T problem. I admit but I recently reinstalled Skyrim and I've been trying to make this mod work again (The OG mod was one of my earliest installs way way back in the day and has been in my installs literally ever since). Whenever I start a game the Slave Camp Tracker quest from (I think) Home Sweet Home starts up but the PAHE one doesn't. 

Opening MCM it says "Unknown, Click to restart". When I click it it seemingly boots up fine enough but I can't change any of the settings under the enslavement tab and whenever I try to enslave someone the only option is "Cancel Enslavement". 

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that there's something interfering with the scripts but I have absolutely 0 idea what. If it helps I'm using the latest MO2 with the modlist here: https://modwat.ch/u/LynxFirenze Help would be appreciated. Perhaps there's something blatant that I'm missing and I'm an idiot.

i'll need to see your papyrus log to find what's stopping it up

2 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

Bash doesn't merge PAHE esp into the bashed patch automatically (usually only merges esp of patches), or at least not the bash version I used (307-5.7). Guess there is some confusion of bash patch and Tes5edit merged patch (to solve conflicts, not to merge the esp or mod files, combine esp changes without merging the esp, thus changing it name)

I merged with Merge Plugins (to reduce Plugin amount), because I saw no mod that used it as obvious master. It's one of those try and error merge esp ^^

Basically changing the esp name is bad in this case.

 

Bash Patch shows mods in green those esp can be merged in to the bash patch.

It's different to merging/conflict resolution of esp entries.

(BOX SCB for example is a MERGE PLUGIN merge, not a bashed patch esp merge)

So far I saw only one conflict between pahe and other mods in my LO and bashed patch solved that conflict => PAHE/SIC/any other mod that makes changes on SIC

  Hide contents

 

seems kinda weird or backwords that it would do things that way, all 3 of the addons should be green and the sl extension not. you should be able to merge the addons into the sl extension so that it is the main file with its patches included in it. i only left them separate so they wouldn't be required

[donttouchmethere]

38 minutes ago, CliftonJD said:

you should be able to merge the addons into the sl extension so that it is the main file with its patches included in it. i only left them separate so they wouldn't be required

That's what I did, but if sl extension is merged (Merge Plugins) it can't be found by PAHE ingame anymore (because of changed esp name), thus giving the warning about missing extended slave training.

I think it might be possible to merge the tdf patch, suits and creature patch? I would still worry that Pahe won't be able to find them anymore.

 

After years I changed to Smashed Patch now. It's like the combination of a Bashed Patch and a Tes5edit merged patch and also has better conflict resolution routines.

Drawback is that Bashed Patch is awesome to merge patches into itself no matter the position in LO. On my LO that's over 22 plugins that are merged into the bashed patch. Without the bashed patch I need to find new mods I can merge with Merge Plugins to save plugin slots. Usually PAHE is on the "NONO" list for merging esp.

I was desperate lol

 

I found some other mods I can remove instead (me mod hoarder >.<) so I can leave PAHE alone. Still good to know that paradise_halls_SLExtension should not be touched by dirty merging hands.

 

[CliftonJD]

58 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

That's what I did, but if sl extension is merged (Merge Plugins) it can't be found by PAHE ingame anymore (because of changed esp name), thus giving the warning about missing extended slave training.

I think it might be possible to merge the tdf patch, suits and creature patch? I would still worry that Pahe won't be able to find them anymore.

i don't know enough about merge plugins if its renaming the target mod to merge intobut yes it should be possible to merge those other 3. tdf won't have any testing method until the slave is trained enough but the suits should be visible at the forge if that merges properly and if the immersive creature patch works, you can view the console of falmer for the difference in their race to be visible. if the patch fails, there's no way to tell them apart. but if it works, falmer added by that by will each have a different race name in the console. doesn't make any changes to the falmer, but changes their race names to distinguish them from other falmer

[sidfu]

when it merges unless it has to most things keep the same editor id. but most mods use script looking for a esp to enable the stuff for soft dependency.