Jazzman Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 I remember when Morrowind modders thought hey a few bucks for our hard work would be nice.... and the players were like hell yeah thanks we can pay a small bit for it..then bethesda stepped in and said." oh no you don't!!! ."now its all." hey lets do it together guys we can do it!!" sorry but i want to throttle some suits now... I remember that tale differently. These one-dollar warez modders got crucified in midst of the com in 2003/2004 for breaking the rule, and I'm really fed up to explain the rule over and over again to the kids of today. There are some things in this world that will never change. Some things do change.
winny257 Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 Bethesda can me the humpback slide down! I look forward to that here. appear on October 17, 2017
Guest Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Guys, do not insult each other. This is and will be not accepted.
Content Consumer Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Everybody saying "cc is bad" and "cc is good" is making me a nervous wreck...
MadMansGun Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Everybody saying "cc is bad" and "cc is good" is making me a nervous wreck... everyone thinks your a bad idea and wants you dead
Ernest Lemmingway Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Everybody saying "cc is bad" and "cc is good" is making me a nervous wreck... everyone thinks your a bad idea and wants you dead It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.
Jazzman Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Again - it's not so much about Bethesda's seasonal "regime change" operations, the hoped-for lucrative shift from free to fee-based mods, but today modders who took a free ride as rookies and apprentices only to demand a payment as masters. "¡No pasarán!" They shall not pass! The "indispensable" modder is just an illusionary figure of the myths. That I've learned a long time ago and they'll learn it too.
winny257 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Again - it's not so much about Bethesda's seasonal "regime change" operations, the hoped-for lucrative shift from free to fee-based mods, but today modders who took a free ride as rookies and apprentices only to demand a payment as masters. "¡No pasarán!" They shall not pass! The "indispensable" modder is just an illusionary figure of the myths. That I've learned a long time ago and they'll learn it too. you are absolutely right, money spoiling every character, as long as a person has little, he gives out of free hearts, but the more someone has the more miserly he becomes! as long as people buy this dirt, it fills Bethesda's pockets. even here it can be observed (free Mods) Oh, oh, oh, that I wants to have and if they do not gotten it, either they cry or they get angry. when I feel that in a game (rip off) is present, then I do not buy this game, even if I am looking forward to it! good examples: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor and Assassin's Creed Origins, both games involve so called Lootboxen which one can buy for money! these two games I do not buy!
Dee383 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Again - it's not so much about Bethesda's seasonal "regime change" operations, the hoped-for lucrative shift from free to fee-based mods, but today modders who took a free ride as rookies and apprentices only to demand a payment as masters. "¡No pasarán!" They shall not pass! The "indispensable" modder is just an illusionary figure of the myths. That I've learned a long time ago and they'll learn it too. you are absolutely right, money spoiling every character, as long as a person has little, he gives out of free hearts, but the more someone has the more miserly he becomes! as long as people buy this dirt, it fills Bethesda's pockets. even here it can be observed (free Mods) Oh, oh, oh, that I wants to have and if they do not gotten it, either they cry or they get angry. when I feel that in a game (rip off) is present, then I do not buy this game, even if I am looking forward to it! good examples: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor and Assassin's Creed Origins, both games involve so called Lootboxen which one can buy for money! these two games I do not buy! I Think You Mean Shadow Of War As I Dont Recall There Being Lootboxes In Shadow Of Mordor .....
winny257 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Again - it's not so much about Bethesda's seasonal "regime change" operations, the hoped-for lucrative shift from free to fee-based mods, but today modders who took a free ride as rookies and apprentices only to demand a payment as masters. "¡No pasarán!" They shall not pass! The "indispensable" modder is just an illusionary figure of the myths. That I've learned a long time ago and they'll learn it too. you are absolutely right, money spoiling every character, as long as a person has little, he gives out of free hearts, but the more someone has the more miserly he becomes! as long as people buy this dirt, it fills Bethesda's pockets. even here it can be observed (free Mods) Oh, oh, oh, that I wants to have and if they do not gotten it, either they cry or they get angry. when I feel that in a game (rip off) is present, then I do not buy this game, even if I am looking forward to it! good examples: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor and Assassin's Creed Origins, both games involve so called Lootboxen which one can buy for money! these two games I do not buy! I Think You Mean Shadow Of War As I Dont Recall There Being Lootboxes In Shadow Of Mordor ..... Yes, I mean Middle Earth Shadow of War Lootbox Opening! and that is the greatest effrontery, a donation for a deceased developer (family members) but not 100% of the donation and not in all states of America, and other countries the donation take the company!!!! sorry German
Ernest Lemmingway Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Cutting through to the core of the matter, the biggest issues I've noticed are these: 1. This could encourage more modders to monetize their work (via Patreon, which I do support for those who earn said token monthly fee through truly exceptional work, or by submitting to the CC--something I don't support). 2. Whether Bethesda will try and sue modders to eliminate challenges to their paid mod scheme and/or change their EULA so all mods had to legally go through them first. As to the first, what everyone must remember that modders who submit work to the CC don't earn real money but rather a virtual credit not unlike bitcoins. Namely CC credits. In case anyone didn't know that before. Bethesda will earn the real money and give those modders who submit their work what is in essence corporate scrip: useless except to buy from them. It's unfair to those who helped create and continue to support the free modding community while Bethesda gets to make even more money off of others work. For the second, that's a reasonable concern and not something anyone outside Bethesda can do to prevent. All they'd have to do is alter the terms of the EULA to force modders to submit their work to them for approval and distribution. This would end up causing a "mod underground" within hours and destroy their reputation among consumers, but that's not something those in charge seem to realize or care about. The ones who would be most hurt by such a decision are PC players, a "significant minority" to paraphrase Pete Hines. Their actions--from the control schema in FO4 like the hard-coded key bindings to their setup of both BethNet and the CC--proves console gamers are the only ones they care about. It's easier, cheaper, and more profitable to cater to them; that's not an opinion but a simple fact of economics. Mods not submitted to them for distribution on BethNet or the CC won't affect console players one way or the other, so our opinions clearly don't matter as far as they're concerned. This is purely my opinion: Offering exclusive work or early access through Patreon is understandable and, as long as the content is updated regularly and doesn't require an excessive donation (say, $2-$5 with an upper cap of $10), is certainly fair. Keep in mind that I wrote "exclusive work" and "early access." Somebody whose entire work was only available by pay is not "reasonable." Plus it would have to be something that is unique and worth a token amount. I'm not about to pay for something when a similar mod could be had for free by some other author or is not of exceptional quality. Some mod authors here have already earned my patronage.
SexDwarf2250 Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 They were clever to unload this on a game where they've already got their profit... it will be standard part of their new games from the beginning and noone will bat an eye, noone will express their displeasure in reviews. Let's not forget.
wulfgear09 Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 I think you missed my point.. devs weren't going to make any money then , and were blown away by our communities mods and wanted to make money now... was my point no matter what side of the fence you sat on during that time.. you know back when you were 13....some of us kids (who had kids ) at that time were just happy as hell to have an awesome game that anyone with some talent could perv up,, instead of bumping our heads on mushrooms while mario music brain washed us.
winny257 Posted October 11, 2017 Posted October 11, 2017 here Bethesda, here you have my money. never in life
GrimReaper Posted October 12, 2017 Posted October 12, 2017 Cutting through to the core of the matter, the biggest issues I've noticed are these: 1. This could encourage more modders to monetize their work (via Patreon, which I do support for those who earn said token monthly fee through truly exceptional work, or by submitting to the CC--something I don't support). 2. Whether Bethesda will try and sue modders to eliminate challenges to their paid mod scheme and/or change their EULA so all mods had to legally go through them first. As to the first, what everyone must remember that modders who submit work to the CC don't earn real money but rather a virtual credit not unlike bitcoins. Namely CC credits. In case anyone didn't know that before. Bethesda will earn the real money and give those modders who submit their work what is in essence corporate scrip: useless except to buy from them. It's unfair to those who helped create and continue to support the free modding community while Bethesda gets to make even more money off of others work. For the second, that's a reasonable concern and not something anyone outside Bethesda can do to prevent. All they'd have to do is alter the terms of the EULA to force modders to submit their work to them for approval and distribution. This would end up causing a "mod underground" within hours and destroy their reputation among consumers, but that's not something those in charge seem to realize or care about. The ones who would be most hurt by such a decision are PC players, a "significant minority" to paraphrase Pete Hines. Their actions--from the control schema in FO4 like the hard-coded key bindings to their setup of both BethNet and the CC--proves console gamers are the only ones they care about. It's easier, cheaper, and more profitable to cater to them; that's not an opinion but a simple fact of economics. Mods not submitted to them for distribution on BethNet or the CC won't affect console players one way or the other, so our opinions clearly don't matter as far as they're concerned. This is purely my opinion: Offering exclusive work or early access through Patreon is understandable and, as long as the content is updated regularly and doesn't require an excessive donation (say, $2-$5 with an upper cap of $10), is certainly fair. Keep in mind that I wrote "exclusive work" and "early access." Somebody whose entire work was only available by pay is not "reasonable." Plus it would have to be something that is unique and worth a token amount. I'm not about to pay for something when a similar mod could be had for free by some other author or is not of exceptional quality. Some mod authors here have already earned my patronage. patreon was a mistake
zzz72w3r Posted October 12, 2017 Posted October 12, 2017 I only support Patreon in its purest sense, financial support of public access works/projects. LL is a good example. Paywall veils, and worse yet, tier velvet rope paywalls for "special contents", "special cut", "special ending" are more car salesmanship than art patronage. It's the equivalent of using p2w and microtransactions to exploit human weakness in addiction and vanity. Sadly the latter is now the norm on Patreon and AAA game development. Patreon game development combines the worst aspects of both traits.
GrimReaper Posted October 12, 2017 Posted October 12, 2017 I only support Patreon in its purest sense, financial support of public access works/projects. LL is a good example. Paywall veils, and worse yet, tier velvet rope paywalls for "special contents", "special cut", "special ending" are more car salesmanship than art patronage. It's the equivalent of using p2w and microtransactions to exploit human weakness in addiction and vanity. Sadly the latter is now the norm on Patreon and AAA game development. Patreon game development combines the worst aspects of both traits. As Marx said: " History repeats ... first as tragedy, then as farce" The tragedy was the decline of the gaming industry, it started out as passionate artists and gamers doing what they loved to do, then the corporate greed took root and now it's a shallow husk of its former self. The farce is the modding community. Started out with people being passionate about the games they loved, sharing knowledge, developing tools, creating art to fill which was perceived as lacking in the game they loved. Now the community is as well infected by greed and just like the guys at the very top of the gaming industry making all the money most people with a patreon account are parasites leeching off the work others have done. And I didn't even speak about how patreon itself encourages people to be lazy cunts.
Ernest Lemmingway Posted October 13, 2017 Posted October 13, 2017 I only support Patreon in its purest sense, financial support of public access works/projects. LL is a good example. Paywall veils, and worse yet, tier velvet rope paywalls for "special contents", "special cut", "special ending" are more car salesmanship than art patronage. It's the equivalent of using p2w and microtransactions to exploit human weakness in addiction and vanity. Sadly the latter is now the norm on Patreon and AAA game development. Patreon game development combines the worst aspects of both traits. As Marx said: " History repeats ... first as tragedy, then as farce" The tragedy was the decline of the gaming industry, it started out as passionate artists and gamers doing what they loved to do, then the corporate greed took root and now it's a shallow husk of its former self. The farce is the modding community. Started out with people being passionate about the games they loved, sharing knowledge, developing tools, creating art to fill which was perceived as lacking in the game they loved. Now the community is as well infected by greed and just like the guys at the very top of the gaming industry making all the money most people with a patreon account are parasites leeching off the work others have done. And I didn't even speak about how patreon itself encourages people to be lazy cunts. Your opinions are noted. But I still believe it's better to support modders who've earned such directly rather than pay a single cent more to the gaming companies who already got money. Especially gaming companies who put the least amount of effort into something to make semi-functional products. What's happening to the modding community is nothing that hasn't happened before with other creative works throughout history. Plenty of artists still release free music, as do many authors, illustrators, painters, and others with their particular media. I admit there's a difference in that a major company provides the figurative canvas, but the spirit remains the same that plenty will still release things because of their passion and eagerness to share what they've created. Some modders will try and cash in on their work but there will still be many who produce excellent quality mods for free as well. Finally, Patreon doesn't "encourage" anything. Those who abuse it would abuse any other system like it. There's also a function to follow artists on it to make sure they're actually producing something without actually paying them a thing. It's up to individuals to do their homework and determine if someone truly is doing what they say or are just trying to get to paid for doing nothing. Actually that last sentence goes for everything in life. I've said my piece so I'm not going to try and argue this anymore. Let's just agree to disagree if anyone doesn't like it and move on.
Outlast1 Posted October 13, 2017 Posted October 13, 2017 Been trying to educate myself on some of the topics brought up here by you guys speaking about micro transactions and gamble boxes (loot boxes) and this guy has a menagerie of videos speaking about this. This I felt had some info dealing with current topic so I thought I would share it.
KoolHndLuke Posted October 13, 2017 Posted October 13, 2017 Been trying to educate myself on some of the topics brought up here by you guys speaking about micro transactions and gamble boxes (loot boxes) and this guy has a menagerie of videos speaking about this. This I felt had some info dealing with current topic so I thought I would share it. And they will keep thinking up new ways to shake money outta people's wallets. I didn't mind dlc content when it started coming out years ago as most of what I saw was a legitimate attempt to add new, fun content to an already released title. What I'm seeing NOW, is that most of these publishing companies are dictating to the dev houses maybe not what they make so much as how they make it- and then they are slicing and dicing it into bits that we pay for individually. They will keep doing it because either the consumers do not realize they are being fucked or they don't care and will happily go along with whatever schemes they come up with to entice a bit more coin outta each. The game developers don't really seem to mind because they are seeing more money as well without having to do nearly as much work as what a brand new game might entail. The disease of greed has finally fully infected our beloved video gaming hobby. But there are enough of us left that do remember the days when game devs wanted to make good or great games more than anything else. They did not release a half finished game full of mistakes or bugs, and they sure as hell didn't think about holding shit back for inclusion in a dlc or micro-transactions. They released a FULL game that was what they considered a finished product since they had poured all of their heart and soul into it. A few of them are still trying to hold onto their integrity, but, it seems most have caved and now embrace this putrid rot like CC as the new norm. Buying and endorsing from indie devs or helping with comm projects is the only alternative I see if we want any semblance of what we love and remember to survive. Here we must be Artist and Humanitarians. LL's passion for great gaming- and sharing with all freely- must be the model for the antithesis to the rampant greed that is sweeping gaming everywhere!
arpaschad Posted October 14, 2017 Posted October 14, 2017 well since Denuvo isn't doing its job (Shadow of War is now cracked) this will pave way for more Pirates to crack other AAA games opening avenues for disgruntled consumers to just pirate that game rather than to deal with the micro transactions and other gambling-esque practices by the big games publishers these days... now only if we can pirate the mods from CC... which is a ridiculous idea since most of the mods released on CC so far are inferior copies of readily available and free alternatives in the Nexus... which defeats the purpose of pirating in the first place...
zzz72w3r Posted October 14, 2017 Posted October 14, 2017 P2W and microtransactions work better than any DRM, also far more profitable to boot. Such "anti-cheating" game design ensures contents won't load unless the game is always connected to their servers and the executable is constantly updated into new ways to get people to put up more money. EA and the likes call it "social engagement" and won't fund development without them, single player experiences be damned. Indie won't reverse the trend. Just look at China where all this began. It's now the second largest gaming market by revenue but zero talent and capital are going to development of single player games. We have gone from getting 3-4 great single player games per-year to now 1 or 2, soon it could be just one every few years.
MadMansGun Posted October 14, 2017 Posted October 14, 2017 now only if we can pirate the mods from CC... that has already happened, just like last time. but continuing this conversation any further may not be permitted: Piracy is not provided here. It's not our business where you get a game, but you will not get help with piracy here, and helping somebody else pirate is strictly against the rules. Keep it to yourself.
GrimReaper Posted October 15, 2017 Posted October 15, 2017 Finally, Patreon doesn't "encourage" anything. Those who abuse it would abuse any other system like it. There's also a function to follow artists on it to make sure they're actually producing something without actually paying them a thing. It's up to individuals to do their homework and determine if someone truly is doing what they say or are just trying to get to paid for doing nothing. Actually that last sentence goes for everything in life. I don't really want to have that discussion and neither do you but hey, a discussion on the internet, can't resist that. Patreon encourages people to be lazy because it provides income with no pressure. It's either per release or a monthly subscription to my knowledge, the former encouraging many smaller releases and insignificant updates to generate more cash and the latter is, well, you can do fuck all for months without anyone knowing what's going on because there's no one supervising the stuff you do or don't do. Tracking what someone does release on patreon is kinda hard to do because most of what's provided by said artist - or whatever you want to call them - is locked behind a patreon-only paywall. There's also the question who actually deserves to be getting paid. When talking about Skyrim's adult mods section, who should be paid? The guys behind SKSE, providing the very foundation for advanced modding? Fore for FNIS because without his work there would be ZERO new animations for Skyrim? Ashal for the framework? Who deserves what? The community is REALLY fucked if the guys doing all the heavy lifting leave because they don't want to work for free just so some leech can make some money off their and everyone else's back. I don't have a problem with supporting platforms themselves like Ashal does with LL on patreon, though. That's one of the few examples that makes sense and is beneficial for everyone, even for those that don't pay.
Outlast1 Posted October 15, 2017 Posted October 15, 2017 I agree with you here on this I have had some bad investments into pateron, and lost some money due to poor judgement on my part and the creators of different artistic items. its hard to find out who best deserves it but sadly nexus isnt making it easy either. I dont mind donating and do frequently to modders I can though unfortunately i cant donate to everyone as my wallet is not limitless. Nexus provides a difficult system of donations. if you download a mod from nex you have to wait 15 minutes to do that. Now that seems well impatient to you why not wait but when decide oh im gonna go browse and do other stuff while waiting to donate I end up forgetting cause I get easily sidetracked. pateron is a doubled edged sword with one exception its more or less geared to what you pointed out the lazy or to the greedy. still life and all things say do as you will at your own risk, invest wisely and try to do your best. But I highly doubt anything about pateron or nex will change anytime soon. Like Hines says in my fiarytale land of tell the truth hines. "why dafuk should we not attempt to do the EA mini DLC shit, those stupid wankers gonna buy it anyways". 2017 thats what I feel like 95% of services do anyways.
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