Paid mods and Bethesda announcement on the E3

[Jazzman]

But there are many PC gamers who do not mind what the industry is turning into. Hell, they defend it! These are people who are old enough to have witnessed this disturbing trend from the beginning and must of decided at some point that they either liked it or didn't care. From what I have been reading in the past few months, the PC comm is about evenly split on this issue with CC and similar ones. So it's not the teens or young adults with their parents credit cards saying OKAY! It is older people like you and me with jobs and families that say OKAY to shit like CC! Fighting that is a losing battle. I'm not saying no one should bitch about it. I'm saying that it probably won't do much good on this front- not when your PC neighbor will gladly pay for whatever shit they are shoveling. You can lead a horse to water......

Wrong axioms per se lead to a house of cards. And your axiom is just that - wrong. It is neither the generation of the millennials, my generation of the 80s, that would by and large support the shift from free to fee-based nor the generation that came before, the late baby boomers of the 70s that have at least some real car in the own family garage. The shift in question is by definition unprofitable, no business people would ever subscribe to it, not b/c it has just a tiny but still measurable impact on the balance sheet but b/c it is totally unnecessary. And unnecessary is the opposite of necessary. Still.

 

What's clear is that only those of my generation support the CC idea that 1) have some modding skills and 2) no fulltime job in their profession that would grant them a bright future and a quarterly ride through Paris in a sports car. You have to understand, half of the 25 year-old in the US live at Mama's and still 1/3 of the 35 year-old. These people instinctively see CC as a financial opportunity for themselves (on the back of their fella mod users) in a world that has little, if ever, to offer for jobless academics and graduated college students that are up to shit creek w/o a paddle, caught up by student loans et al.

 

Today families can't afford to simply forget about the bills, the monthly costs and buy stuff that should be and is still free available on the market, why should they? Those who talk much ain't necessarily a mirror of the majority, however, they use their ample spare time on the internet most effectively as a tool to emulate majority which is a modern identity policy tactics. Just follow the threads on the Nexus, the language used, to get a glimpse on the average age of today mod users... they not just sound childish, uneducated, they are still children. By no means they are jobless academics at Mama's or young parents in their own suburban nest, owned by the banks.

[vinfamy]

Conan predicted the Creation Club back in 2012!  

 

 

(Start at 2:22)

 

Illuminati confirmed!

[27X]

 

The average male gamer is like 35 now. The average female gamer is in her 40s. Skyrim alone (like Halo) was incredibly popular among college students (DudeBros) and those in their late 20s and early 30s. These aren't children, even if their attitudes are similar. "Shiny! Must have!"

Source pls. From what I've seen since the late 90s the coms are steadily growing in numbers. The Nexus had some 2.5 thousand members in its first year and 2.5 million members in 2010. That number has quadrupled in the last six or seven years. Due to the fact that only a few oldies would ever start their gamer career beyond their prime of life and many of them simply fade out, my observation (which includes my now 5-year old son) coincides with the growing numbers - the average gamer gets younger with each 5-year gamer generation (which reflects the 5-year game cycle as a rule of thumb in the T and M-category of the RPGs). How young the starters in RPG actually are is hard to tell, due to the fact that the coms have no restrictive age control. So, the starting age could be anything from, say, ten years upward (the average intellect that shows up online is hardly a proof to the contrary). That alone lowers the average age of today gamers. Thus methinks that the assumption of the teenage as the average player age is much, much safer.

 

I have no idea what makes you think that the average age of female players would be five years older than that of males. Do you perhaps assume a five-year sleeping beauty delay till awakening when it comes to the use of technology? Wrong. All my female classmates have started to play electronic games in primary school (the generation of my son already in kindergarten), and we were born in the late 80s - the electronic Stone Age. Female fear of technology is just a myth as is the die-hard idea that women on the internet do not exist, or at least 'not really'...

 

There is a slight female pref. for console games tho'. Why? Perhaps it's the kumbayah effect when you play with your real friends directly and not just indirectly with virtual ones. I was immune to the console, by means of whatever, fear of early finger arthritis played no role.

 

 

 

The source is an NPD survey conducted every year by the ESA that is literally a google link away, and your entirely subjective anecdotal evidence doesn't really mean anything.

 

Teenagers with credit cards on the nexus don't account for any measurable percent of gaming, and gamers under the age of 18 are only two percent more than gamers over the age of 18, and women tend to break down rather evenly on consoles but have a much larger presence in mobile than men.

 

http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/EF2017_Design_FinalDigital.pdf

 

Kinda funny that your premise is "your thing is a theory, now here's a theory that women are more social so they played party games on consoles, expect it's my theory and therefore facts"

[CaptainChaos]

 

Due to the fact that only a few oldies would ever start their gamer career beyond their prime of life and many of them simply fade out, my observation (which includes my now 5-year old son) coincides with the growing numbers - the average gamer gets younger with each 5-year gamer generation (which reflects the 5-year game cycle as a rule of thumb in the T and M-category of the RPGs). How young the starters in RPG actually are is hard to tell, due to the fact that the coms have no restrictive age control. So, the starting age could be anything from, say, ten years upward (the average intellect that shows up online is hardly a proof to the contrary). That alone lowers the average age of today gamers. Thus methinks that the assumption of the teenage as the average player age is much, much safer.

 

I have no idea what makes you think that the average age of female players would be five years older than that of males. Do you perhaps assume a five-year sleeping beauty delay till awakening when it comes to the use of technology? Wrong. All my female classmates have started to play electronic games in primary school (the generation of my son already in kindergarten), and we were born in the late 80s - the electronic Stone Age. Female fear of technology is just a myth as is the die-hard idea that women on the internet do not exist, or at least 'not really'...

 

There is a slight female pref. for console games tho'. Why? Perhaps it's the kumbayah effect when you play with your real friends directly and not just indirectly with virtual ones. I was immune to the console, by means of whatever, fear of early finger arthritis played no role.

 

I got beat about posting links. But the fact is, due to exposure and technology these days people ARE picking up gaming in the later parts of their lives. The Wii was a start. But iPhones and iPads took it that much farther. Readily available broadband Internet damn sure didn't hurt. This same phenomena is increasing the average college student age as well since online courses not only let people continue their education later in life, but also start it later as well.

 

I don't agree with lumping a grandmother who plays Word Jumble on her iPad with a kid who cut his teeth on Quake or Unreal Tournament, but from a business perspective: these can be lumped into the same group. The question is: who to market to? That was the point of my post. We think "Young kids are driving the market and (some believe) ruining it." But it's just not that simple.

 

And please don't ascribe to me the idea I think females fear technology. Checking over my original post, I never even alluded to that. If I did, then "sorry" because that's nothing like what I meant.

 

You guys are still thinking that microtransactions is about getting you to pay more for the same or less entertainment.  It's not, not anymore.  The gaming industry (the gambling kind) since the 90s have been known to use neurosciences and psychology to reduce inhibition and induce addiction.  With complete attention of your brain and direct access to your wallet the video gaming industry and all social networking platforms are taking those studies to a different level.  The key of selling microtransaction is about getting that next "high" and why the objectives of big publishers are now all about addiction and extraction.  That is far more profitable and predictable than selling consumed once only entertainment products.

This is a really good point. The idea has always existed in video games. WoW designed their big glowing "SWOOSH" level up specifically to give you the feel of a mile-stone. Same thing with, generally, calculating time-spent vs the next milestone. Too fast, it loses impact. Too slow, you lose interest. But now they can monetize the actual process.

 

"Pay 9.99 for a StimPack to boost your XP and Gold."

 

Dungeon Keeper even went as far as to say "You can't even play the game unless you pay us" and it still made money.

[KoolHndLuke]

 

 

Wrong axioms per se lead to a house of cards. And your axiom is just that - wrong. It is neither the generation of the millennials, my generation of the 80s, that would by and large support the shift from free to fee-based nor the generation that came before, the late baby boomers of the 70s that have at least some real car in the own family garage. The shift in question is by definition unprofitable, no business people would ever subscribe to it, not b/c it has just a tiny but still measurable impact on the balance sheet but b/c it is totally unnecessary. And unnecessary is the opposite of necessary. Still.

 

What's clear is that only those of my generation support the CC idea that 1) have some modding skills and 2) no fulltime job in their profession that would grant them a bright future and a quarterly ride through Paris in a sports car. You have to understand, half of the 25 year-old in the US live at Mama's and still 1/3 of the 35 year-old. These people instinctively see CC as a financial opportunity for themselves (on the back of their fella mod users) in a world that has little, if ever, to offer for jobless academics and graduated college students that are up to shit creek w/o a paddle, caught up by student loans et al.

 

Today families can't afford to simply forget about the bills, the monthly costs and buy stuff that should be and is still free available on the market, why should they? Those who talk much ain't necessarily a mirror of the majority, however, they use their ample spare time on the internet most effectively as a tool to emulate majority which is a modern identity policy tactics. Just follow the threads on the Nexus, the language used, to get a glimpse on the average age of today mod users... they not just sound childish, uneducated, they are still children. By no means they are jobless academics at Mama's or young parents in their own suburban nest, owned by the banks.

 

You seem to be looking for a scapegoat in this by making a baseless assumption pertaining to the gaming industry as a whole by pointing at what would constitute a very small minority of the comm. Jobless Joe Dirt living in his mother's house at 30 is not even moderately representative of the people that have contributed to modding from what I gather. They come from ALL walks of life! Old, middle aged, young, some children actually that range from being well educated, productively employed, married with child, single and proud, rebellious malcontents, ignorant or just plain dumb, living in a house, an apartment, or yes they are living with parents sometimes. I remember one mod author who said he was living out of his car for awhile.

 None of this impacts either their wanting to use mods or their decision to pay for them or not. You might argue financial reasons for not buying a CC armor for FO4, but honestly who can't afford a little scratch for that? Each person makes up their own mind with some influence from media and the games publishers and what their friends are doing. Careful there, propaganda such as yours is what led to some of the ugliest episodes in human history. Elitist thinking. 

[Jazzman]

You seem to be looking for a scapegoat in this by making a baseless assumption pertaining to the gaming industry as a whole by pointing at what would constitute a very small minority of the comm. Jobless Joe Dirt living in his mother's house at 30 is not even moderately representative of the people that have contributed to modding from what I gather. They come from ALL walks of life! Old, middle aged, young, some children actually that range from being well educated, productively employed, married with child, single and proud, rebellious malcontents, ignorant or just plain dumb, living in a house, an apartment, or yes they are living with parents sometimes. I remember one mod author who said he was living out of his car for awhile.

 None of this impacts either their wanting to use mods or their decision to pay for them or not. You might argue financial reasons for not buying a CC armor for FO4, but honestly who can't afford a little scratch for that? Each person makes up their own mind with some influence from media and the games publishers and what their friends are doing. Careful there, propaganda such as yours is what led to some of the ugliest episodes in human history. Elitist thinking. 

This is just an abstract of the Federal Reserve Study Report 2015 for you as an introduction into the theme at hand. Guess it's worth reading. The whole tome (even far more interesting, not just for your age group) is available on paper. Your friendly congressman /-woman will be at your service to get you a free copy if needed, I'm sure.

 

Looks as if you have missed the accumulative effect of the little 'irrelevant' things. Thus you might wanna discuss this on occasion with your wifey. Maybe you're not even involved in the latent problems caused by addiction, a great many people (and in this case very young people) are tho, unfortunately. My sister calls 'em 'mod collectors' (already soon unwittingly collecting for the Reapers?), not the worst description even if it sounds a bit Mass Effect to me. But okay, it's indeed some kind of mass effect.

 

Besides, you seem to have too much faith in private information dealing with personal living standards given to you by folks on the internet, the true realm in the clouds of the fantastic Triple S - Superman, Supergirl and Supercomputer. Kryptonite, anyone? Always keep your living standard to yourself and take that of others that simply can't resist with a grain of salt. If ever, I restrict myself to sophisticated zero-sum statements like 'born on a cattle ranch at the back of beyond and thus utterly familiar with bullshit'. No further open questions, and that I like most

 

Have a good one.

[winny257]

 

You seem to be looking for a scapegoat in this by making a baseless assumption pertaining to the gaming industry as a whole by pointing at what would constitute a very small minority of the comm. Jobless Joe Dirt living in his mother's house at 30 is not even moderately representative of the people that have contributed to modding from what I gather. They come from ALL walks of life! Old, middle aged, young, some children actually that range from being well educated, productively employed, married with child, single and proud, rebellious malcontents, ignorant or just plain dumb, living in a house, an apartment, or yes they are living with parents sometimes. I remember one mod author who said he was living out of his car for awhile.

 None of this impacts either their wanting to use mods or their decision to pay for them or not. You might argue financial reasons for not buying a CC armor for FO4, but honestly who can't afford a little scratch for that? Each person makes up their own mind with some influence from media and the games publishers and what their friends are doing. Careful there, propaganda such as yours is what led to some of the ugliest episodes in human history. Elitist thinking. 

This is just an abstract of the Federal Reserve Study Report 2015 for you as an introduction into the theme at hand. Guess it's worth reading. The whole tome (even far more interesting, not just for your age group) is available on paper. Your friendly congressman /-woman will be at your service to get you a free copy if needed, I'm sure.

 

---snip---

 

this study is not at all, in Germany it is much more drastically!

my two sons are very late undressed, the big one with 35 years and the small one with 32 years.

and that is normal standard, there are various reasons, because the Rental costs (more expensive), cost of living.

very many adult children go back home because they are so financially better.

 

Germany Study 16.10.2017

Share of 25 to 29-year-old women and men who live in their parents' home.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/nesthocker-warum-viele-erwachsene-noch-im-elternhaus-wohnen-a-1165435.html

[Jazzman]

 

Aye, winny. I've already referred to the 1/3 of the 35 year-old that love their mom so much that they are still living at home in their children's room of old in Montana and elsewhere in the US as mentioned in the paper report by the FED. Good to know that the situation in Germany and thus in Europe is hardly any better. So, the argument that it would be no problem to buy the usual 100 or 200 mods from the CC instead of getting them for free from the mod com (which would inevitably go into decline parallel to the rise of the CC) on top of the game and its many DLCs is off the table now, once and for all 'cause for almost half of us it is indeed an additional, artificially created problem, no matter how vividly we deny or ignore it.

[GrimReaper]

If you want to make money by leeching it from the people who want mods, why not simply set up a patreon account, you'd be in good company at least. Trying to rake in some additional cash with the CC seems like a poor choice, because Bethesda calls the shots and you won't get that much out of it, I suppose. It's invite only anyway and why try to make Bethesda hire you when you can get people to pay monthly. I mean, yeah, the patreon business is saturated to hell and back and it'd be pretty difficult to get started, but certainly easier than getting into the creation club I guess.

 

To nail down which part of the demographic however is responsible for the rise of microtransactions and all sorts of ingame purchases, well. I suppose it's almost impossible to determine who does exactly what, but I've seen 60+ year olds buying premium currency for mobile games and people being 30+ with families and fulltime jobs defending microtransactions, so there's that. Anecdotal evidence at best, sure, but it's all we have in that regard I'm afraid.

[KoolHndLuke]

 

This is just an abstract of the Federal Reserve Study Report 2015 for you as an introduction into the theme at hand. Guess it's worth reading.

 

Have a good one.

 

Yeah. I'm not seeing a clear connection between this and your sightings of "Bigfoot"! Neither CC or patreon or any other paid shindig for gaming is expensive- no matter how financially challenged one might be. This demographic does not demonstrate anything other than a disturbing "failure to launch" in some families. You are still making assumptions my dear. Or can you point to your own personal experience-without making shit up- to better support your theory?

 

It is still mainly the principle of charging for something -that should not be- that matters or doesn't to a growing and ever widening gaming audience.

[Zor2k13]

Well as disposable income decreases every year these new micro transactions and loot boxes will decline after a while. Even with access to other peoples money (credit cards) most will buy less and less as more of their money goes to rising bills and rents. Hourly income might increase to $15 but then rents will just go higher in the dense urban areas where most people want to live and work. Many people will have to move far away from these areas just to afford the same or just slightly higher rents than what they had before and so drive far to work everyday and have less free time probably last thing on their minds is sitting in those parking lots called freeways trying to get to the mall or the store or get home and gamble away what little they have left on csgo or other games.

 

Not having enough disposable income will rub many people the wrong way in no time at all.

[Jazzman]

 

This is just an abstract of the Federal Reserve Study Report 2015 for you as an introduction into the theme at hand. Guess it's worth reading.

 

Have a good one.

Yeah. I'm not seeing a clear connection between this and your sightings of "Bigfoot"! Neither CC or patreon or any other paid shindig for gaming is expensive- no matter how financially challenged one might be. This demographic does not demonstrate anything other than a disturbing "failure to launch" in some families. You are still making assumptions my dear. Or can you point to your own personal experience-without making shit up- to better support your theory?

 

It is still mainly the principle of charging for something -that should not be- that matters or doesn't to a growing and ever widening gaming audience.

 

Sorry but you're still hopelessly stuck in the illusive parallel world where one favors arrogance over logic, strength over weakness, selfishness over communal solidarity, greed over sharing (in what's called a sharing community), where math is clearly understood as pure propaganda and one thus doesn't even get the basic principles of economy and the required transition from one generation to the next to keep the system up and running 'cause one foolish Big Brother apparatus does the whole thinking for you. You've learnt nothing from winny257's personal, exemplary experience as a father of two grown-ups, revealing the inability to walk in their moccasins for a single mile. What to say, Mr. Know-it-all, hmm?

 

Well, all that can be said, is said already, there is thus no need for me to flog a dead horse. The ball is now in the court of a mod community that is heavily divided over Todd's one-sided action. I've voted against him and not just b/c he's not my type. You've voted for him and his selfishness and now you've gotta live with it, and so do I.

[KoolHndLuke]

 

 

This is just an abstract of the Federal Reserve Study Report 2015 for you as an introduction into the theme at hand. Guess it's worth reading.

 

Have a good one.

Yeah. I'm not seeing a clear connection between this and your sightings of "Bigfoot"! Neither CC or patreon or any other paid shindig for gaming is expensive- no matter how financially challenged one might be. This demographic does not demonstrate anything other than a disturbing "failure to launch" in some families. You are still making assumptions my dear. Or can you point to your own personal experience-without making shit up- to better support your theory?

 

It is still mainly the principle of charging for something -that should not be- that matters or doesn't to a growing and ever widening gaming audience.

 

Sorry but you're still hopelessly stuck in the illusive parallel world where one favors arrogance over logic, strength over weakness, selfishness over communal solidarity (in what's called a community) and yet don't even get the basic principles of economy and the required transition from one generation to the next to keep the system up and running 'cause one foolish Big Brother does the whole thinking for you. You've learnt nothing from winny257's personal, exemplary experience as a father of two grown-ups. What to say, Mr. Know-it-all, hmm?

 

Well, all that can be said, is said already, there is thus no need for me to flog a dead horse. The ball is now in the court of a mod community that is heavily divided over Todd's one-sided action. I've voted against him and not just b/c he's not my type. You've voted for him and his selfishness and now you've gotta live with it, and so do I.

 

How in the hell did I vote for Todd you fool? I merely argued that the demographic for those potentially in favor of this CC shit is much more widespread than what you suggest! If anyone is "stuck" in a parallel or imaginary fuckin world babe- it is you. Not once have I said CC is a good thing. You seem to believe the world revolves around you and your opinions. It does not.

[Jazzman]

 

 

 

This is just an abstract of the Federal Reserve Study Report 2015 for you as an introduction into the theme at hand. Guess it's worth reading.

 

Have a good one.

Yeah. I'm not seeing a clear connection between this and your sightings of "Bigfoot"! Neither CC or patreon or any other paid shindig for gaming is expensive- no matter how financially challenged one might be. This demographic does not demonstrate anything other than a disturbing "failure to launch" in some families. You are still making assumptions my dear. Or can you point to your own personal experience-without making shit up- to better support your theory?

 

It is still mainly the principle of charging for something -that should not be- that matters or doesn't to a growing and ever widening gaming audience.

 

Sorry but you're still hopelessly stuck in the illusive parallel world where one favors arrogance over logic, strength over weakness, selfishness over communal solidarity (in what's called a community) and yet don't even get the basic principles of economy and the required transition from one generation to the next to keep the system up and running 'cause one foolish Big Brother does the whole thinking for you. You've learnt nothing from winny257's personal, exemplary experience as a father of two grown-ups. What to say, Mr. Know-it-all, hmm?

 

Well, all that can be said, is said already, there is thus no need for me to flog a dead horse. The ball is now in the court of a mod community that is heavily divided over Todd's one-sided action. I've voted against him and not just b/c he's not my type. You've voted for him and his selfishness and now you've gotta live with it, and so do I.

 

How in the hell did I vote for Todd you fool? I merely argued that the demographic for those potentially in favor of this CC shit is much more widespread than what you suggest! If anyone is "stuck" in a parallel or imaginary fuckin world babe- it is you. Not once have I said CC is a good thing. You seem to believe the world revolves around you and your opinions. It does not.

 

Sorry but the rotten tomato of subtle support for Beth is of your making and still in your garden where it belongs to, bearbee. I've not invented math, I just use it. You might give it a try. So, it's too late for you to switch sides with flying colors, to and fro as affairs stand. There is only a pro and a con and nothing in between, no little bit of this and a little bit of that, big boy. Somebody should have told you before.

 

Now after we have introduced ourselves with names, the great snuffling, I suggest we leave it at that and move on in peace.

[KoolHndLuke]

 

 

 

 

This is just an abstract of the Federal Reserve Study Report 2015 for you as an introduction into the theme at hand. Guess it's worth reading.

 

Have a good one.

Yeah. I'm not seeing a clear connection between this and your sightings of "Bigfoot"! Neither CC or patreon or any other paid shindig for gaming is expensive- no matter how financially challenged one might be. This demographic does not demonstrate anything other than a disturbing "failure to launch" in some families. You are still making assumptions my dear. Or can you point to your own personal experience-without making shit up- to better support your theory?

 

It is still mainly the principle of charging for something -that should not be- that matters or doesn't to a growing and ever widening gaming audience.

 

Sorry but you're still hopelessly stuck in the illusive parallel world where one favors arrogance over logic, strength over weakness, selfishness over communal solidarity (in what's called a community) and yet don't even get the basic principles of economy and the required transition from one generation to the next to keep the system up and running 'cause one foolish Big Brother does the whole thinking for you. You've learnt nothing from winny257's personal, exemplary experience as a father of two grown-ups. What to say, Mr. Know-it-all, hmm?

 

Well, all that can be said, is said already, there is thus no need for me to flog a dead horse. The ball is now in the court of a mod community that is heavily divided over Todd's one-sided action. I've voted against him and not just b/c he's not my type. You've voted for him and his selfishness and now you've gotta live with it, and so do I.

 

How in the hell did I vote for Todd you fool? I merely argued that the demographic for those potentially in favor of this CC shit is much more widespread than what you suggest! If anyone is "stuck" in a parallel or imaginary fuckin world babe- it is you. Not once have I said CC is a good thing. You seem to believe the world revolves around you and your opinions. It does not.

 

Sorry but the rotten tomato of subtle support for Beth is of your making and still in your garden where it belongs to, bearbee. I've not invented math, I just use it. You might give it a try. So, it's too late for you to switch sides with flying colors, to and fro as affairs stands. There is only a pro and a con and nothing in between, no little bit of this and a little bit of that, big boy. Somebody should have told you before.

 

Now after we have introduced ourselves with names, the great snuffling, I suggest we leave it at that and move on in peace.

 

Wrong little girl. There is a great big grey area pertaining to this and everything else in the world. Something for you to learn. You are acting childish simply because I don't agree 100%. CC is no ones fault unless they work for it or fuckin buy something- neither of which I ever intend to do. Personally, I think if anyone might turn proponent of CC or something similar- it would be you.

You argued with everyone about MEA and you lost. But you defended that shitty game with such fervor that I actually thought you might have been on their payroll or somethin. Still a little mad about that, huh? And not once did you ever admit you were wrong even though you said that you would. Would you like me to quote a few of your posts? So, you were wrong about that and now you are wrong about me. Wanna go for a third?

[Jazzman]

 

Now after we have introduced ourselves with names, the great snuffling, I suggest we leave it at that and move on in peace.

Wrong little girl. There is a great big grey area pertaining to this and everything else in the world. Something for you to learn. You are acting childish simply because I don't agree 100%. CC is no ones fault unless they work for it or fuckin buy something- neither of which I ever intend to do. Personally, I think if anyone might turn proponent of CC or something similar- it would be you.

You argued with everyone about MEA and you lost. Still a little mad about that, huh? And not once did you ever admit you were wrong even though you said that you would. So, you were wrong about that and now you are wrong about me. Wanna go for a third?

 

The only short thing a woman of 6'1 can identify right now is your shortcoming in identifying and interpreting female signals. Not utterly experienced he is, huh?

Whateva, you're out man. Different to many other guys you simply don't make it in the convo, introducing naming when getting *huh* nervous and stuff alike and I get easily bored, to be fair.

So, hasta la vista, bearbee.

 

Regarding MEA I've insisted to know firsthand before arguing in groupthink fashion about it beforehand w/o any own experience. Got finally rated 6.5 by me and that fits precisely into the consensus by those who have actually played it. So what? Money lost? Wow! And? Talking on the internet is not about 'winning', esp. not against all odds in boy group fashion but the exchange of different 'opinions'. However, b/c I don't grant a man a 2nd try, grass will grow on his cheeks and the 3rd has not yet come. I can afford it...

[GrimReaper]

I fail to see the connection between people living with their parents for extended periods of time and the rise of microtransactions, though. There's a difference between causality and correlation; numbers need to be put in the right context or you could also argue that the decline of sea pirates has led to an increase of nuclear powerplants going boom. You're right about many people in their 20's and 30's still living at home, but the conclusion that those people are the ones pushing for the monetization of mods is conjured out of thin air. I'd be intrigued to know which part of what demographic does buy and subsequently supports these shenanigans but I'd say the industry keeps those informations for themselves, there's money involved, after all.

[FauxFurry]

I fail to see the connection between people living with their parents for extended periods of time and the rise of microtransactions, though. There's a difference between causality and correlation; numbers need to be put in the right context or you could also argue that the decline of sea pirates has led to an increase of nuclear powerplants going boom. You're right about many people in their 20's and 30's still living at home, but the conclusion that those people are the ones pushing for the monetization of mods is conjured out of thin air. I'd be intrigued to know which part of what demographic does buy and subsequently supports these shenanigans but I'd say the industry keeps those informations for themselves, there's money involved, after all.

Well,there is this guy to go by if one wants a clue as to who buys virtual items in micro-transactions.

So-called Whales are the primary purchasers of loot boxes and the like.

[winny257]

I fail to see the connection between people living with their parents for extended periods of time and the rise of microtransactions, though. 

 

 

well then fit once now exactly on, my two grown sons needed no rent to pay, no energy costs pay, no other fees (broadcast and television).

they only gave some money for food, both were computer players with a lot of money and the temptations of the game industry!

every second week a new game, the most of them not even played, that was then not enough, it must then be online games, with the many additional costs (pay and win).

the end of the song, I have both thrown out.

[Jazzman]

I fail to see the connection between people living with their parents for extended periods of time and the rise of microtransactions, though. There's a difference between causality and correlation; numbers need to be put in the right context or you could also argue that the decline of sea pirates has led to an increase of nuclear powerplants going boom. You're right about many people in their 20's and 30's still living at home, but the conclusion that those people are the ones pushing for the monetization of mods is conjured out of thin air. I'd be intrigued to know which part of what demographic does buy and subsequently supports these shenanigans but I'd say the industry keeps those informations for themselves, there's money involved, after all.

 

They don't give a fuck on who lives where and why. Doubt that they have calculated on jobless or underpaid modders. They're looking at the balance sheets, that's all. The success of microtransactions depends on a high level of addiction among the players. That this is given for single-player Bethesda RPG's  they know as good as we do. The average number of mods installed tells a tale. Thus my conclusion results from both addiction of most of us and latent financial pressure among the group in question, a group that should be the innovative, shiny beacon of society on the hill of productivity but there's no fuckin hill anymore, the motherfuckers in charge have leveled it long ago, outsourced to... you name it.

So, even if I'm not involved I understand pretty well what the guys that need some money intend to do with their intelligence, and intelligent they are. I'd probably do the same, knowing that I'd totally alienate myself from the mod community and all its long-standing principles, but still the shirt is nearer than the coat. Action, reaction. Cause and effect. Causality. 

In a prosperous world where a high qualified technician is able to find a job acc. to his education instead of a depressing one for just a few bucks far off his profession at McDonald's et al., Beth would hardly find any skilled modder that signs a fuckin contract that only feeds the hamster at home - they guys would earn enough to live happily ever after, for sure not at Mama's Pizza Place... and they'd see modding the way we did - a challenge to make things better, the game more interesting than Beth could ever imagine and for the benefit of all of us instead of the company and, of course, the already mentioned hamster.

So, the group in question fits perfectly into Beth's microtransaction program as cheap supplier, coincidence or plan doesn't matter anymore cos the train has left the station.

[KoolHndLuke]

 

I fail to see the connection between people living with their parents for extended periods of time and the rise of microtransactions, though. There's a difference between causality and correlation; numbers need to be put in the right context or you could also argue that the decline of sea pirates has led to an increase of nuclear powerplants going boom. You're right about many people in their 20's and 30's still living at home, but the conclusion that those people are the ones pushing for the monetization of mods is conjured out of thin air. I'd be intrigued to know which part of what demographic does buy and subsequently supports these shenanigans but I'd say the industry keeps those informations for themselves, there's money involved, after all.

 

They don't give a fuck on who lives where and why. Doubt that they have calculated on jobless or underpaid modders. They're looking at the balance sheets, that's all. The success of microtransactions depends on a high level of addiction among the players. That this is given for single-player Bethesda RPG's  they know as good as we do. The average number of mods installed tells a tale. Thus my conclusion results from both addiction of most of us and latent financial pressure among the group in question, a group that should be the innovative, shiny beacon of society on the hill of productivity but there's no fuckin hill anymore, the motherfuckers in charge have leveled it long ago, outsourced to... you name it.

So, even if I'm not involved I understand pretty well what the guys that need some money intend to do with their intelligence, and intelligent they are. I'd probably do the same, knowing that I'd totally alienate myself from the mod community and all its long-standing principles, but still the shirt is nearer than the coat. Action, reaction. Cause and effect. Causality. 

In a prosperous world where a high qualified technician is able to find a job acc. to his education instead of a depressing one for just a few bucks far off his profession at McDonald's et al., Beth would hardly find any skilled modder that signs a fuckin contract that only feeds the hamster at home - they guys would earn enough to live happily ever after, for sure not at Mama's Pizza Place... and they'd see modding the way we did - a challenge to make things better, the game more interesting than Beth could ever imagine and for the benefit of all of us instead of the company and, of course, the already mentioned hamster.

So, the group in question fits perfectly into Beth's microtransaction program as cheap supplier, coincidence or plan doesn't matter anymore cos the train has left the station.

 

Now that is an almost reasonable argument- even if completely biased. Why couldn't you have just stated this the first time I asked instead of all the flopping around? I still don't agree with you though. As GrimReap has said, there is still no correlation between those statistics and the "under-paid male geniuses" living at home with mom and dad. Oh, and I honestly don't give a fuk who likes what I say or doesn't. I will still call things like I see them. This all sounds like convenient "math" on your part to serve some kind of personal vendetta you have against all men- and has much less to do with the subject of the thread. Your dislike for men and blaming them for shit across several threads seems to be a recurring theme for you. Face it! You have no valid argument to support your claims! 

[GrimReaper]

 

 

They don't give a fuck on who lives where and why. Doubt that they have calculated on jobless or underpaid modders. They're looking at the balance sheets, that's all. The success of microtransactions depends on a high level of addiction among the players. That this is given for single-player Bethesda RPG's  they know as good as we do. The average number of mods installed tells a tale. Thus my conclusion results from both addiction of most of us and latent financial pressure among the group in question, a group that should be the innovative, shiny beacon of society on the hill of productivity but there's no fuckin hill anymore, the motherfuckers in charge have leveled it long ago, outsourced to... you name it.

So, even if I'm not involved I understand pretty well what the guys that need some money intend to do with their intelligence, and intelligent they are. I'd probably do the same, knowing that I'd totally alienate myself from the mod community and all its long-standing principles, but still the shirt is nearer than the coat. Action, reaction. Cause and effect. Causality. 

In a prosperous world where a high qualified technician is able to find a job acc. to his education instead of a depressing one for just a few bucks far off his profession at McDonald's et al., Beth would hardly find any skilled modder that signs a fuckin contract that only feeds the hamster at home - they guys would earn enough to live happily ever after, for sure not at Mama's Pizza Place... and they'd see modding the way we did - a challenge to make things better, the game more interesting than Beth could ever imagine and for the benefit of all of us instead of the company and, of course, the already mentioned hamster.

So, the group in question fits perfectly into Beth's microtransaction program as cheap supplier, coincidence or plan doesn't matter anymore cos the train has left the station.

 

I think you underestimate greed, the chance to make a few bucks on the side is welcome for most people. Modders come from all sorts of backgrounds, and the modders who chose to support Bethesda with the CC do as well, they're just greedier than their average peer. When it comes to the question who actually buys stuff from the CC, I'd argue it's mostly console gamers because they don't have access to many of the mods PC players have. Not trying to start a platform war, it's just what appears to be plausible, why would you buy a shitty reskin when there are better available for free?

 

You also make the mistake to assume that most of the adults still living at home do so out of financial need. That's something that's true for some, but western society has shifted considerably in the last few decades. People back then used to move out early because starting a family was what everyone did, but nowadays when relationships - with or without children - are transient at best, why bother moving out?

 

You make too many assumptions. The only numbers you have at your disposal are that 1/3 of the adults 30+ are still living at home, the rest of your argument is conjecture, because you don't know who works for Bethesda's CC and who doesn't. But since the group you mention is so large - 30% of an entire age group is certainly no joke - it's probably true that many modders do fall under said demographic, but you have no clue whether these modders support or reject the CC.

 

 

[winny257]

 

 

I fail to see the connection between people living with their parents for extended periods of time and the rise of microtransactions, though. There's a difference between causality and correlation; numbers need to be put in the right context or you could also argue that the decline of sea pirates has led to an increase of nuclear powerplants going boom. You're right about many people in their 20's and 30's still living at home, but the conclusion that those people are the ones pushing for the monetization of mods is conjured out of thin air. I'd be intrigued to know which part of what demographic does buy and subsequently supports these shenanigans but I'd say the industry keeps those informations for themselves, there's money involved, after all.

 

They don't give a fuck on who lives where and why. Doubt that they have calculated on jobless or underpaid modders. They're looking at the balance sheets, that's all. The success of microtransactions depends on a high level of addiction among the players. That this is given for single-player Bethesda RPG's  they know as good as we do. The average number of mods installed tells a tale. Thus my conclusion results from both addiction of most of us and latent financial pressure among the group in question, a group that should be the innovative, shiny beacon of society on the hill of productivity but there's no fuckin hill anymore, the motherfuckers in charge have leveled it long ago, outsourced to... you name it.

So, even if I'm not involved I understand pretty well what the guys that need some money intend to do with their intelligence, and intelligent they are. I'd probably do the same, knowing that I'd totally alienate myself from the mod community and all its long-standing principles, but still the shirt is nearer than the coat. Action, reaction. Cause and effect. Causality. 

In a prosperous world where a high qualified technician is able to find a job acc. to his education instead of a depressing one for just a few bucks far off his profession at McDonald's et al., Beth would hardly find any skilled modder that signs a fuckin contract that only feeds the hamster at home - they guys would earn enough to live happily ever after, for sure not at Mama's Pizza Place... and they'd see modding the way we did - a challenge to make things better, the game more interesting than Beth could ever imagine and for the benefit of all of us instead of the company and, of course, the already mentioned hamster.

So, the group in question fits perfectly into Beth's microtransaction program as cheap supplier, coincidence or plan doesn't matter anymore cos the train has left the station.

 

Now that is an almost reasonable argument- even if completely biased. Why couldn't you have just stated this the first time I asked instead of all the flopping around? I still don't agree with you though. As GrimReap has said, there is still no correlation between those statistics and the "under-paid male geniuses" living at home with mom and dad. Oh, and I honestly don't give a fuk who likes what I say or doesn't. I will still call things like I see them. This all sounds like convenient "math" on your part to serve some kind of personal vendetta you have against all men- and has much less to do with the subject of the thread. Your dislike for men and blaming them for shit across several threads seems to be a recurring theme for you. Face it! You have no valid argument to support your claims! 

 

 

off topic

 

can it be that you emancipated women do not like?

to me personally it is that you have problems with intelligent women, a woman in a boss position, unthinkable for you. you want, a woman belongs in the kitchen and cares for the children, above all She must not say anything.

I personally like strong, self-confident women, it is much better to have a smart partner.

 

Male Bosses- Are they Better?

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/87069-male-bosses-are-they-better/?do=findComment&comment=2044285

[Jazzman]

 

 

 

They don't give a fuck on who lives where and why. Doubt that they have calculated on jobless or underpaid modders. They're looking at the balance sheets, that's all. The success of microtransactions depends on a high level of addiction among the players. That this is given for single-player Bethesda RPG's  they know as good as we do. The average number of mods installed tells a tale. Thus my conclusion results from both addiction of most of us and latent financial pressure among the group in question, a group that should be the innovative, shiny beacon of society on the hill of productivity but there's no fuckin hill anymore, the motherfuckers in charge have leveled it long ago, outsourced to... you name it.

So, even if I'm not involved I understand pretty well what the guys that need some money intend to do with their intelligence, and intelligent they are. I'd probably do the same, knowing that I'd totally alienate myself from the mod community and all its long-standing principles, but still the shirt is nearer than the coat. Action, reaction. Cause and effect. Causality. 

In a prosperous world where a high qualified technician is able to find a job acc. to his education instead of a depressing one for just a few bucks far off his profession at McDonald's et al., Beth would hardly find any skilled modder that signs a fuckin contract that only feeds the hamster at home - they guys would earn enough to live happily ever after, for sure not at Mama's Pizza Place... and they'd see modding the way we did - a challenge to make things better, the game more interesting than Beth could ever imagine and for the benefit of all of us instead of the company and, of course, the already mentioned hamster.

So, the group in question fits perfectly into Beth's microtransaction program as cheap supplier, coincidence or plan doesn't matter anymore cos the train has left the station.

 

I think you underestimate greed, the chance to make a few bucks on the side is welcome for most people. Modders come from all sorts of backgrounds, and the modders who chose to support Bethesda with the CC do as well, they're just greedier than their average peer. When it comes to the question who actually buys stuff from the CC, I'd argue it's mostly console gamers because they don't have access to many of the mods PC players have. Not trying to start a platform war, it's just what appears to be plausible, why would you buy a shitty reskin when there are better available for free?

 

You also make the mistake to assume that most of the adults still living at home do so out of financial need. That's something that's true for some, but western society has shifted considerably in the last few decades. People back then used to move out early because starting a family was what everyone did, but nowadays when relationships - with or without children - are transient at best, why bother moving out?

 

You make too many assumptions. The only numbers you have at your disposal are that 1/3 of the adults 30+ are still living at home, the rest of your argument is conjecture, because you don't know who works for Bethesda's CC and who doesn't. But since the group you mention is so large - 30% of an entire age group is certainly no joke - it's probably true that many modders do fall under said demographic, but you have no clue whether these modders support or reject the CC.

 

 

 

Well, greed plays no role when you take an additional, low-paid job, the 2nd or 3rd of all, only need does. Moreover, I remember that in the four years I have modded for Gas Powered Games after school, modding was time-consuming, especially when you work in a larger team. It's not something you do in-between as if it were nothing. And work it is.

 

I haven't yet talked about on who buys what regarding the platforms used 'cause I don't play on a console and only pc matters for modding, at least for the near future. You might wanna read more closely before switching gears just to confuse me with others and their arguments, okay?

 

Ask winny why the guys in the mid 30s stay at home. It's not because they don't want to found an own family, it's because they are unable to finance their own four walls as a single, to cut the cord once and for all. It's simply cheaper to stay and you're not the one to disagree. The phenomenon has absolutely nothing to do with career vs raising children (which, at least for a man, requires a woman). Nothing! Don't get confused, just don't. They ain't no children anymore! And yet they still need the parental protection as if they still were children, even if it is just free electrified shelter, cleaner and food. And parents don't let their children down...

 

Establishing a hypothesis is always based on a logical sounding assumption that needs to be verified, well, in some cases not as in 'Russiagate' . Without hypotheses, however, we'd still live in a cave somewhere. The parameters we have at hand are sufficient to make a logical approach that deals with probabilities. In absence of higher probabilities for alternatives your critique is legit but of just trivial importance.

 

Finally, your logic is somewhat flawed -  I don't need to know beforehand the share of modders in the group in question that actually like CC or not. All I have to do is to watch diversity and progress of CC on the market. The higher the diversity and the better the progress, the higher the share should be, vice versa accordingly.  Question is, is that of any importance? Well, only if you are interested in an observation of the time-learning curve of a group, and this group is intelligent from the get go, quick-learners. So, the outcome is already clear before one would start an observation.

 

[GrimReaper]

 

 

Well, greed plays no role when you take an additional, low-paid job, the 2nd or 3rd of all, only need does. Moreover, I remember that in the four years I have modded for Gas Powered Games after school, modding was time-comsuming, especially when you work in a larger team. It's not something you do in-between as if it were nothing. And work it is.

 

I haven't yet talked about on who buys what regarding the platforms used 'cause I don't play on a console and only pc matters for modding, at least for the near future. You might wanna read more closely before switching gears just to confuse me with others and their arguments, okay?

 

Ask winny why the guys in the mid 30s stay at home. It's not because they don't want to found an own family, it's because they are unable to finance their own four walls as a single, to cut the cord once and for all. It's simply cheaper to stay and you're not the one to disagree. The phenomenon has absolutely nothing to do with career vs raising children (which, at least for a man, requires a woman). Nothing! Don't get confused, just don't. They ain't no children anymore! And yet they still need the parental protection as if they still were children, even if it is just free electrified shelter, cleaner and food. And parents don't let their children down...

 

Establishing a hypothesis is always based on a logical sounding assumption that needs to be verified, well, in some cases not as in 'Russiagate' . Without hypotheses, however, we'd still live in a cave somewhere. The parameters we have at hand are sufficient to make a logical approach that deals with probabilities. In absence of higher probabilities for alternatives your critique is legit but of just trivial importance.

 

Finally, your logic is somewhat flawed -  I don't need to know beforehand the share of modders in the group in question that actually like CC or not. All I have to do is to watch diversity and progress of CC on the market. The higher the diversity and the better the progress, the higher the share should be, vice versa accordingly.  Question is, is that of any importance? Well, only if you are interested in an observation of the time-learning curve of a group, and this group is intelligent from the get go, quick-learners. So, the outcome is already clear before one would start an observation.

 

If you have 2 or 3 jobs you probably won't have the time to create some assets or mod anything at all, really. Also, why should you go after multiple low wage jobs when you still live at your parents? People who work their asses off for little pay are usually the ones that absolutely need the money to stay afloat, i.e. there's no one else to support them. That being said, modding is as time consuming as you want it to be. If you have knowledge and/or talent in any of the fields, it's pretty easy to whip up some new models, textures or a few lines of code from scratch. What might take a total newbie several weeks from start to finish will someone who already knows how to use the tools available a few days, and a pro will need only hours. The most time consuming thing - and where most people fail - about modding is the learning part. The size of the project of course matters, but the CC so far has only provided pretty simple mods, nothing big or groundbreaking, so nothing that took long. Remember that the CC is invite-only so there won't be any people who don't know what they're doing. Probably.

 

Also, don't worry, I haven't confused what you've said and what you didn't say, the part about the buyers was directed at winny who tried to argue that his/her sons at the age of 30+ had a lot of disposable income because they stayed at home and didn't have to pay rent themselves, so more money to blow on games and hardware, at least that's what I've understood. Should've made that probably more obvious.

 

And please, read what I've written. Nowhere have I made the claim that my argument has anything to do with career vs raising children, I simply stated that the nuclear family is dead but the concept of the nuclear family was what motivated most to start their own life. Now people simply don't feel the need to move out of their parent's house any longer, because why should they? If you want to start a family, sure, you need your very own home. But if you are single and all relationships are transient, why bother? There's nothing to gain.

 

And to close of that wall of text: If you want to talk about hypotheses and logic, you should very well know that anecdotal evidence is tainted by subjective perception and not a very good basis to start your train of thought on. So no, I don't need ask anybody about the personal experience on any matter because it's entirely irrelevant.