Deviously Enslaved Continued [2019-11-11]

[Lupine00]

DEC might be causing a problem with deteriorating frame-rate/game responsiveness due to assaults.

 

It seemed every DEC related assault, my game dramatically slowed down.

Save and reload helped a bit to clear the problem, but it never went away and would eventually grind any game to death.

 

I can't prove it's a DEC problem exactly, but I had a game build/LO without DEC... No problems.

I added DEC, and this issue started.

I removed DEC and started a new game. Fine again.

 

Why? I have no idea. Not sure if anybody else has this. If not, I guess it doesn't matter.

[donttouchmethere]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

DEC might be causing a problem with deteriorating frame-rate/game responsiveness due to assaults.

 

It seemed every DEC related assault, my game dramatically slowed down.

Save and reload helped a bit to clear the problem, but it never went away and would eventually grind any game to death.

 

I can't prove it's a DEC problem exactly, but I had a game build/LO without DEC... No problems.

I added DEC, and this issue started.

I removed DEC and started a new game. Fine again.

 

Why? I have no idea. Not sure if anybody else has this. If not, I guess it doesn't matter.

I had that once too, because of a mod conflict between NDUN (naked dungeons) and DEC.

Both have mechanics to pull an NPC and start a force greet that seems to have conflicted (a lot).

That conflict caused lag/freeze/CTD, especially if DEC wasn't below everything in load order that is follower and NPC force greet related.

Newest NDUN and DEC work somewhat together (DEC wins and NDUNs force greets pull NPC and start conversation, but no force greet related dialog from NDUN)

 

Maybe you found a possible new conflict with your load order?

[donttouchmethere]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

snip

You could try this:

deactivate DCL follower support

that's more a guts feeling than fact

[Verstort]

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

DEC might be causing a problem with deteriorating frame-rate/game responsiveness due to assaults.

 

It seemed every DEC related assault, my game dramatically slowed down.

Save and reload helped a bit to clear the problem, but it never went away and would eventually grind any game to death.

 

I can't prove it's a DEC problem exactly, but I had a game build/LO without DEC... No problems.

I added DEC, and this issue started.

I removed DEC and started a new game. Fine again.

 

Why? I have no idea. Not sure if anybody else has this. If not, I guess it doesn't matter.

Did this start happening with the last release or was it present in earlier versions?

 

DEC does run a lot of papyrus during the approach, the actual NPC is just following a very basic AI package to approach the player which shouldn't be performance heavy, but we run scripting to check over and over if there's a reason for the approach to stop, because not every reason for the approach to stop can be detected in real time so we have to poll for it.

 

I myself have not noticed a performance dip from it though.

 

Can you post a papyrus log of such an approach?

[darkfists]

I haven't been able to get the mcm to start on new saves since the update, is there any way to force the mod to start?

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Verstort said:

we run scripting to check over and over if there's a reason for the approach to stop

here is one more good reason to stop approach:

If the follower and the PC is gagged a dialog can't be started

this ends atm that the follower will try a force greet till approach time runs out

(on my game that's 40 ingame minutes)

[Verstort]

5 hours ago, darkfists said:

I haven't been able to get the mcm to start on new saves since the update, is there any way to force the mod to start?

Can you post a papyrus log? I don't remember even touching anything that would lock that.

 

If you can make a save without the MCM working that would be even better (resaver acts like a debugger), you can message me the save if you don't want to post it here.

5 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

here is one more good reason to stop approach:

If the follower and the PC is gagged a dialog can't be started

this ends atm that the follower will try a force greet till approach time runs out

(on my game that's 40 ingame minutes)

Interesting, although I didn't think the follower approach would even start if they were gagged, if they were gagged mid-approach I'm curious how that happened.

[darkfists]

Here's a fresh save, and one with some time on it in case that affects anything

Save 2044 - test123 Abandoned Prison 00.09.45.ess

Save 2044 - test123 Abandoned Prison 00.09.45.skse

Save 2041 - Steph Dragonsreach 13.43.09.skse

Save 2041 - Steph Dragonsreach 13.43.09.ess

[darkfists]

here's another one to show I'm (hopefully) not crazy or just wasting your time too haha, last version with same mods, load order, etc. working mcm

Save 2045 - awawwa Abandoned Prison 00.03.03.ess

Save 2045 - awawwa Abandoned Prison 00.03.03.skse

[Verstort]

35 minutes ago, darkfists said:

Here's a fresh save, and one with some time on it in case that affects anything

That wasn't what I was expecting, and I'm not entirely sure what is happening.

 

It looks like the Mod Detection thread isn't starting. The quest is stopped, there is no script on the thread, and everything else is locked waiting for something that doesn't exist. The MCM waiting for Mods detection is by design, as it'll lock up before that.

 

No idea why ModsMonitor is missing from your save, unless the file for it was missing but I just checked, the zip file has the compiled script...

 

Normally the save tells me more than the log, but in this case the log might have more info.

 

Edit: No, if I intentionally remove the file I get different kinds of errors, its not like you're missing the file.

[darkfists]

well time to learn how to get a papyrus log haha, give me a few min

[Verstort]

4 minutes ago, darkfists said:

well time to learn how to get a papyrus log haha, give me a few min

Sorry but its late I need sleep.

 

Get me a log and I'll look at it tomorrow but try it with this version. I haven't changed anything, I've just recompiled the most recent scripts (the mod works fine on my machine now, maybe I uploaded a broken script in 13.19.0)

 

Deviously Enslaved Continued(v13.19.1).7z

[darkfists]

1 is from 13.19.0, 0 is 13.19.1, neither work for me unfortunately

Papyrus.1.log

Papyrus.0.log

 

I'm not sure I let 1 run long enough though, just from peaking at it and making a guess lol

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, Verstort said:

Did this start happening with the last release or was it present in earlier versions?

 

DEC does run a lot of papyrus during the approach, the actual NPC is just following a very basic AI package to approach the player which shouldn't be performance heavy, but we run scripting to check over and over if there's a reason for the approach to stop, because not every reason for the approach to stop can be detected in real time so we have to poll for it.

 

I myself have not noticed a performance dip from it though.

 

Can you post a papyrus log of such an approach?

Can't say when this (may have) started in DEC, because I haven't used DEC in months.

 

While the problem sure looks like an attempt to run a huge amount of Papyrus, my system can handle some pretty ridiculous amounts of Papyrus, so the only way I can see this happening is if somehow DEC is spinning up ever increasing numbers of instances that never end.

 

Alas, I nuked the logs and saves from this profile, as at the time I wasn't sure if removing DEC was going to fix anything, and I wanted to confirm that. It builds up incrementally with assaults, so you have to go through quite a few before you can see it manifesting, but as more and more assaults occur, my consistent frame-rate of 60 starts to drop, until I'm eventually seeing numbers like ... 12 ... fading into "give up, it's unplayable". The first time I saw this, I dropped some other mods (DWA and ... can't recall what, but it made no difference), after that DEC and DA were the only fresh additions in that LO (though I had all new versions of SD+, Hormones, Parasites, Stories and Devious Stories - but I'd been running these in beta previously without issues).

 

Once it starts to become noticeable, it gets worse quite quickly. However, I didn't see massive save-file bloating, and didn't inspect the save-files at all.

 

To dig into this properly, I'd have to re-create the profile with DEC, and play it for some hours.

 

As nobody else is reporting this ... it doesn't seem worth the effort ... some rare edge case ... I'm just going to avoid DEC for now.

 

It's likely the problem relates to a combination of other mods in play that also deal with attacks, though they aren't uncommon choices: SD+, Hormones, Parasites, Stories, Devious Stories, DCL, SL Adventures, Defeat, DF, DWA, and DA. DCL rapes and combat defeat were disabled in this case.

[donttouchmethere]

5 hours ago, Verstort said:

Interesting, although I didn't think the follower approach would even start if they were gagged, if they were gagged mid-approach I'm curious how that happened.

mid-approach?

That might be it, because it the first time I see that issue* (and I check the DEC console regulary, somehow I'm addicted to DEC debug messages).

(*not realy an issue, because as soon as I meet a NPC and start dialog the approach will stop, alternative: get attacked by something)

 

For some reason the Estrus attacks from DCL work again on my setup.

To share the joy with my followers and to see the impact of DCL follower support I activated it.

(normaly it's deactivated, because it seems too much for my setup = lag, like Lupine00 describes)

 

Shortly after that I triggered a DCL trap.

The whole party got packed in DDs in no time, all followers got gagged at the same time (or as fast as DCL adds DD after trap)

Main conversation in the party is now: "mmmph" while my console get spammed by lydias DEC approach

 

 

This is nothing game breaking, but it prevents for 40 min any approach via DEC on the now realy vulnerable party (this might be a tactical adventage too ^^).

With NDUN helpless feature every hostile NPC is now calmed and able to approach. It's a great link via DEC to SD+/SS+/DECsold in a 10k+ skyrim unit radius.

(thats why I have the 40min approach time, the hostiles have to walk a long way)

 

So the situation is that:

all followers gagged, no dialog possible

all hostile NPC calmed via NDUN all able to approach via NDUN helpless+DEC

no civil NPC near (or at least with the blindfold I'm not able to see them^^)

Lydia can hold it any longer and want's to do a DEC approach

I have no clue how to get out of that one atm ^^

(no keys, can't ask the DF/DH followers, and the gag on PC is a DCL heavy gag with special keys, same for the blindfold)

that will be a slow walk to any blacksmith or lauras shop or just surrender via SD+ or NDUN court mage

 

[cailic]

13 hours ago, darkfists said:

1 is from 13.19.0, 0 is 13.19.1, neither work for me unfortunately

Papyrus.1.log

Papyrus.0.log

 

I'm not sure I let 1 run long enough though, just from peaking at it and making a guess lol

How long should I let it run?  I have been uninstalling mods and starting new games.  I reverted to DE two versions ago, uninstalled the Sanguine mods and uninstalled Realestate mod.  I finally got the DE MCM to show up.  I thought it was the Realestate mod.  So I re-installed Sanguine D and the newest version of DE.  Again no MCM.  I uninstalled SD and still no MCM.  I just reverted to the old version of DE, with SD uninstalled (the way it was when the MCM showed up), I waited for all the messages to disappear and then waited another 5 minutes.  There was no MCM.  Here is the log from my last attempt. 

Papyrus.0.log

 

The thing is, when the MCM showed up, I had to get up from my chair for a while, after starting a new game.  I don't know how long I was gone, maybe ten minutes. 

 

The MCM of the old DE version still shows up in old saved games.  This is real bummer to trouble shoot. 

 

[Verstort]

15 hours ago, darkfists said:

1 is from 13.19.0, 0 is 13.19.1, neither work for me unfortunately

Papyrus.1.log

Papyrus.0.log

 

I'm not sure I let 1 run long enough though, just from peaking at it and making a guess lol

Well that log explains the problem, but the reason for the problem is not obvious. I need time to fix this.

 

If I'm right, you can install the devious framework mod, but leave it disabled in the load order if you don't want the actual mod in your game, as a temporary fix to this problem.

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Can't say when this (may have) started in DEC, because I haven't used DEC in months.

 

While the problem sure looks like an attempt to run a huge amount of Papyrus, my system can handle some pretty ridiculous amounts of Papyrus, so the only way I can see this happening is if somehow DEC is spinning up ever increasing numbers of instances that never end.

 

Alas, I nuked the logs and saves from this profile, as at the time I wasn't sure if removing DEC was going to fix anything, and I wanted to confirm that. It builds up incrementally with assaults, so you have to go through quite a few before you can see it manifesting, but as more and more assaults occur, my consistent frame-rate of 60 starts to drop, until I'm eventually seeing numbers like ... 12 ... fading into "give up, it's unplayable". The first time I saw this, I dropped some other mods (DWA and ... can't recall what, but it made no difference), after that DEC and DA were the only fresh additions in that LO (though I had all new versions of SD+, Hormones, Parasites, Stories and Devious Stories - but I'd been running these in beta previously without issues).

 

Once it starts to become noticeable, it gets worse quite quickly. However, I didn't see massive save-file bloating, and didn't inspect the save-files at all.

 

To dig into this properly, I'd have to re-create the profile with DEC, and play it for some hours.

 

As nobody else is reporting this ... it doesn't seem worth the effort ... some rare edge case ... I'm just going to avoid DEC for now.

 

It's likely the problem relates to a combination of other mods in play that also deal with attacks, though they aren't uncommon choices: SD+, Hormones, Parasites, Stories, Devious Stories, DCL, SL Adventures, Defeat, DF, DWA, and DA. DCL rapes and combat defeat were disabled in this case.

Huh, that does kinda sound like some run-away thread creation. DEC should only ever use one main thread though, it runs on a restart loop: every time it is done, it asks the game to restart it X seconds in the future, then the thread dies.

 

The threading scheduler is a black box though, it could be doing something stupid like keeping a zombie thread hogging resources, but just keeping the thread in memory isn't enough, that causes stack dumps and not performance degredation, so it has to be using CPU too.. but should have nothing left to do.

 

13 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

This is nothing game breaking, but it prevents for 40 min any approach via DEC on the now realy vulnerable party (this might be a tactical adventage too ^^).

With NDUN helpless feature every hostile NPC is now calmed and able to approach. It's a great link via DEC to SD+/SS+/DECsold in a 10k+ skyrim unit radius.

(thats why I have the 40min approach time, the hostiles have to walk a long way)

 

So the situation is that:

all followers gagged, no dialog possible

all hostile NPC calmed via NDUN all able to approach via NDUN helpless+DEC

no civil NPC near (or at least with the blindfold I'm not able to see them^^)

Lydia can hold it any longer and want's to do a DEC approach

I have no clue how to get out of that one atm ^^

(no keys, can't ask the DF/DH followers, and the gag on PC is a DCL heavy gag with special keys, same for the blindfold)

that will be a slow walk to any blacksmith or lauras shop or just surrender via SD+ or NDUN court mage

 

I haven't touched NDUN yet, but I should check it out to make sure there aren't any other incompatibilities, like both approaches stepping on each other.

 

I'll have to see why a Gagged->Gagged approach can happen, as I thought it would get stuck before we got to actual approach. You should be able to break the approach currently on her with a DHLP reset toggle (debug menu). You can stop her from approaching you even gagged with an armbinder. You could also find a way to keep her arousal low enough (shock gear) she won't start sex approach to you at least.

 

2 hours ago, cailic said:

How long should I let it run?  I have been uninstalling mods and starting new games.  I reverted to DE two versions ago, uninstalled the Sanguine mods and uninstalled Realestate mod.  I finally got the DE MCM to show up.  I thought it was the Realestate mod.  So I re-installed Sanguine D and the newest version of DE.  Again no MCM.  I uninstalled SD and still no MCM.  I just reverted to the old version of DE, with SD uninstalled (the way it was when the MCM showed up), I waited for all the messages to disappear and then waited another 5 minutes.  There was no MCM.  Here is the log from my last attempt. 

Papyrus.0.log

 

The thing is, when the MCM showed up, I had to get up from my chair for a while, after starting a new game.  I don't know how long I was gone, maybe ten minutes. 

 

The MCM of the old DE version still shows up in old saved games.  This is real bummer to trouble shoot. 

 

 

Edit: You probably have the same issue darkfists has above, install DFW or revert to the latest 13.18.* until I can fix this.

 

DEC's MCM takes a while to start, DEC has to wait for several other mods to load, we need to check all of those mods for cross compatibility, then the MCM is allowed to load. On my machine this takes > 4 minutes from a fresh save, < 15 seconds if you were to install DEC on a save that already had all the other mods finished. It might take longer if you have a machine with a slow HDD, not sure.

 

However, this papyrus log you got me says the date is 2017, and everything seems to be working (at least the base mod, MCM doesn't print much debug). Are you sure you gave me the right log?

 

If you have an old save you want to play with DEC, and that save had an old version of Deviously Enslaved at one point in the past, I recommend a save clean to get rid of the old DE, following the steps in DEC's mod description.

 

If it doesn't show up after such a clean or on a new save, can I get the log for that new save?

[Verstort]

@cailic  @darkfists

 

Double checking, because it's not a problem on my machine.

 

Does this version allow the MCM to show up? This is not a final fix, but a test.

 

Deviously Enslaved Continued(v13.19.2).7z

[cailic]

6 hours ago, Verstort said:

@cailic  @darkfists

 

Double checking, because it's not a problem on my machine.

 

Does this version allow the MCM to show up? This is not a final fix, but a test.

 

Deviously Enslaved Continued(v13.19.2).7z

That's a negative.  I'm going to try uninstalling more mods and see what happens.  It could be a conflict with a mod I installed during my last play through. 

[darkfists]

Works for me, thanks verstort! Here be the log

Papyrus.0.log

[Bane Master]

10 hours ago, cailic said:

That's a negative.  I'm going to try uninstalling more mods and see what happens.  It could be a conflict with a mod I installed during my last play through. 

Just playing a hunch here - can you check your log for the MCM fail and see if it contains any errors similar to:

 

[01/06/2019 - 03:05:27PM] Error: Unable to link types associated with function "GetDFWPlayerBusy" in state "" on object "crdemodsmonitorscript".
[01/06/2019 - 03:05:27PM] Error: Unable to link types associated with function "GetDFWMaster" in state "" on object "crdemodsmonitorscript".

 

If so then I think I may know the cause. 

[Verstort]

10 hours ago, cailic said:

That's a negative.  I'm going to try uninstalling more mods and see what happens.  It could be a conflict with a mod I installed during my last play through. 

Alright, well then these are two different problems and I need a save file without an MCM, a papyrus log or both to help you with your issue.

9 hours ago, darkfists said:

Works for me, thanks verstort! Here be the log

Papyrus.0.log

Alright, that version has broken DFW leash detection, but that confirms the issue at least.

[cailic]

3 hours ago, Verstort said:

Alright, well then these are two different problems and I need a save file without an MCM, a papyrus log or both to help you with your issue.

Alright, that version has broken DFW leash detection, but that confirms the issue at least.

Ok, I have the earliest version of DE that is in NMM that I downloaded on 7 July.  I believe this is the one I started the last play through with.  It still doesn't show in the MCM.  So it must be another mod.  Here is a save I just made. 

 

Papyrus.0.log

Save 1870 - Prisoner Windhelm 00.10.31.ess

[cailic]

3 hours ago, Bane Master said:

Just playing a hunch here - can you check your log for the MCM fail and see if it contains any errors similar to:

 

[01/06/2019 - 03:05:27PM] Error: Unable to link types associated with function "GetDFWPlayerBusy" in state "" on object "crdemodsmonitorscript".
[01/06/2019 - 03:05:27PM] Error: Unable to link types associated with function "GetDFWMaster" in state "" on object "crdemodsmonitorscript".

 

If so then I think I may know the cause. 

Thanks for trying, but I'm not running DFW.  I ran a search anyway since I did have it installed at one point.  I might try it again if all the patches that make it work were easy to find instead of being spread out through the thread. 

[donttouchmethere]

20 hours ago, Verstort said:

I haven't touched NDUN yet, but I should check it out to make sure there aren't any other incompatibilities, like both approaches stepping on each other.

you have to try the combination DEC+NDUN, it's made for each other

the NDUN helpless feature calms everything on the map (guess via faction?)

means all the sudden all those SDcages bandit camps are able for a DEC approach

that's why I have DEC search range to 10k+

if unarmed and naked DEC can pull everything (no creatures) via DEC approach + NDUN helpless feature

this in turn makes DEC the main reason for a SD+ enslavement (on my game DEC is responsible for 80% of SD enslavements, the rest is SS+ and SD+ combat surrender)