Deviously Enslaved Continued [2019-11-11]

[bicobus]

The log is from a 3 hours playthrough. The other log I have, which contain the installation and initialization of the game, do not have any stack dump. The log file I provided contain the first stackdump. I'll try to go back to my initial save, start a clean sexlab scene and see if DEC properly handles that.

 

I just noticed that SL solution isn't last. Something might have nuked my LOOT preferences, and so the load order may not be optimal. I'm seeing SL solutions errors. So I'll reorder my mods correctly, restart a game and see if DEC fails again. But that'll have to wait tomorrow

[RegisteredUser]

On 9.3.2018 at 10:47 PM, Verstort said:

I haven't decided what kind of timer I want for the tiemeup, but yeah getting released immediately after being put in is a problem on my list to fix. Min/Max with random could work fine I guess, still needs to be put in though.

I don't know how much effort this would be to implement, but, some brainstorming:

 

How about a timer-based lockout on the dialogue option? Immediately after being tied up, the lockout triggers, and the option to ask to be freed simply doesn't appear in the menu. The player has to wait a certain time before it will reappear. Also, every time the follower is asked for release but refuses, the same lockout triggers again, and the player has to wait for the option to reappear.

 

The time period the player needs to wait could be determined in various ways. At its most basic, a fixed amount of time, maybe with a slight random variance (something like 12 +/- 2 ingame hours). Alternatively, it could be based on the follower's behavior. Something like: six ingame hours, plus half an hour for every point in "follower enjoys being dominant". That way, a follower who's highly dominant will let you wait much longer than one who is new to the game and/or doesn't know you. Negative dominance values could reduce the timer below six hours, but no lower than one hour (that would be -10).

 

The chance to be released when asking could also be dependant on follower behavior. For example, if "follower enjoys being dominant" gets tied to the timer as mentioend above, because the follower likes seeing you that way, then "follower thinks player is submissive" could be tied to the chance of being released. If the follower thinks the player likes being tied up, the chance to succeed would be very small, and failure would result in a bit of friendly teasing ("Your words say please, but your eyes say not yet. Why don't you enjoy yourself a little longer?"). Perhaps a base success chance of 70%, and -3% for every point of perceived submissiveness, capped at 20? Then the minimum chance would be 10%. And with a negative submission score of at least 10, you'd have a 100% chance to be instantly released.

 

You can pick whatever behavior score fits best for what gets tied to what. The above is just one possible variant.

[Verstort]

13 hours ago, bicobus said:

The log is from a 3 hours playthrough. The other log I have, which contain the installation and initialization of the game, do not have any stack dump. The log file I provided contain the first stackdump. I'll try to go back to my initial save, start a clean sexlab scene and see if DEC properly handles that.

 

I just noticed that SL solution isn't last. Something might have nuked my LOOT preferences, and so the load order may not be optimal. I'm seeing SL solutions errors. So I'll reorder my mods correctly, restart a game and see if DEC fails again. But that'll have to wait tomorrow

New day, new eyes, problem is now obvious. DEC is the issue in the sense that it will keep making new threads without destroying the old ones, growing until it breaks the stack

 

Forgot I wrote the problem code honestly, if anyone has been playing a save with 13.13.19 or 20 you should revert or save clean DEC from that save, and upgrade to 21 to stop the issue from appearing in the future.

 

Deviously Enslaved Continued(v13.13.21 Testing).7z

[Verstort]

8 hours ago, RegisteredUser said:

How about a timer-based lockout on the dialogue option? Immediately after being tied up, the lockout triggers, and the option to ask to be freed simply doesn't appear in the menu. The player has to wait a certain time before it will reappear. Also, every time the follower is asked for release but refuses, the same lockout triggers again, and the player has to wait for the option to reappear.

Nah, I would rather the player have the option to ask for release and either: A the follower denies with flavor text, B the follower denies and adds more items or interacts, C the follower doesn't understand and does the wrong thing, D the follower realizes that there's a situational reason to release early, or E something else I haven't thought of.

 

Not sure what I can write regarding any of that, but any one of those I feel would still be better than no dialogue. I'd much rather play with a dialogue tree that has risk and reward, even if its often hidden or flavor rather than tangible, but I don't really enjoy it when a mod puts you on rails and only gives you one chance and no options to do anything, a timer option with only the ability to wait around is exactly what I want to avoid.

 

8 hours ago, RegisteredUser said:

The time period the player needs to wait could be determined in various ways. At its most basic, a fixed amount of time, maybe with a slight random variance (something like 12 +/- 2 ingame hours). Alternatively, it could be based on the follower's behavior. Something like: six ingame hours, plus half an hour for every point in "follower enjoys being dominant". That way, a follower who's highly dominant will let you wait much longer than one who is new to the game and/or doesn't know you. Negative dominance values could reduce the timer below six hours, but no lower than one hour (that would be -10).

 

The chance to be released when asking could also be dependant on follower behavior. For example, if "follower enjoys being dominant" gets tied to the timer as mentioend above, because the follower likes seeing you that way, then "follower thinks player is submissive" could be tied to the chance of being released. If the follower thinks the player likes being tied up, the chance to succeed would be very small, and failure would result in a bit of friendly teasing ("Your words say please, but your eyes say not yet. Why don't you enjoy yourself a little longer?"). Perhaps a base success chance of 70%, and -3% for every point of perceived submissiveness, capped at 20? Then the minimum chance would be 10%. And with a negative submission score of at least 10, you'd have a 100% chance to be instantly released.

12 is a bit much for starting I feel but yes, I was thinking of making the starting value influenced by follower's dom and arousal, maybe player's sub perception, and it can increase if the player keeps asking for out, and decrease if player has some world interaction (detecting if the player gets rapped or buzzed is easy, not sure what else to do though)

 

Making certain dialogue chance based is actually annoying with this game, you have to roll the chances before the dialogue happens in a script, and then the value has to be in a place where the player can cheat and look at the value if they know console well enough. Dialogue cannot have weights, all dialogue is weighted the same and you have to deny dialogue the chance from happening before you get that far if you want to influence the dialogue random roll.

 

[HexBolt8]

I like tying the release to the dom/sub sliders.  A player who prefers light bondage would set the follower to slightly dom, and perhaps leave player perceived sub at zero.  But if the player chooses to set the follower at max dom with max perceived sub for the player character, that character wants to be denied release a few times to "enjoy yourself a little longer".

 

I'd set the base time pretty low, though.  I personally avoid using the game's wait function, to better experience being trapped in restraints.  12 hours of game time equates to 36 minutes of real time just to ask for release, with the real chance of being denied.  As an option (if it's practical), a checkbox to disable waiting while tied would be interesting. 

 

I'm not personally a fan of the "follower doesn't understand" mechanic, especially if you've been together awhile.  Follower decides to have some fun or follower decides to add a device seem sufficient as risks for asking.  Another possibility (for a strongly dom follower) would be a chance to unequip the player character's body armor/robe. 

 

For the situational release, the Submissive Lola mod detects a dragon attack and releases the player character from restraints.  That would seem reasonable here. 

[Dust+]

1 hour ago, Verstort said:

Nah, I would rather the player have the option to ask for release and either: A the follower denies with flavor text, B the follower denies and adds more items or interacts, C the follower doesn't understand and does the wrong thing, D the follower realizes that there's a situational reason to release early

Sounds exciting

I thought about sex offer when you try to fun with your follower. 
What you think about make one or few bad consequences as answer? I thought about it because of DCUR which I love so much. The main idea of DCUR is control your arousal level or you will find more and more cursed items. But any attemps of decrease your arousal (like soliciting) has the chance of bad consequences. You risking all the time when you try to make sex with someone. 

The sex conversation without any bad consequences seems like cheat when you playing with DCUR.

Hope you didn't take offense because I like DCUR. DEC I love too

[bicobus]

2 hours ago, Verstort said:

New day, new eyes, problem is now obvious.

I'm just glad I didn't spend my whole night on this issue

 

1 hour ago, Verstort said:

Nah, I would rather the player have the option to ask for release and either: A the follower denies with flavor text, B the follower denies and adds more items or interacts, C the follower doesn't understand and does the wrong thing, D the follower realizes that there's a situational reason to release early, or E something else I haven't thought of.

Please, let's assume the follower isn't stupid. Skyrim is a game based around the player, the only individual that can make actual decisions. Don't troll the player by adding more items or by using a random outcome, there are already plenty of other mods that does that specific thing.

[Guest]

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:37 AM, Verstort said:

New day, new eyes, problem is now obvious. DEC is the issue in the sense that it will keep making new threads without destroying the old ones, growing until it breaks the stack

 

Forgot I wrote the problem code honestly, if anyone has been playing a save with 13.13.19 or 20 you should revert or save clean DEC from that save, and upgrade to 21 to stop the issue from appearing in the future.

 

Deviously Enslaved Continued(v13.13.21 Testing).7z

Thanks.

 

I don't know if this is related but lets say hypothetically that there are badly written mods somewhere out there.

Could those mods interfere with yours in some way?

DEC used to stop doing anything but this has not happened in months.

Yesterday I installed a mod and its minions, and temporarily disabled your mod.

Now it's unconscious, it won't wake up.

But I will install .21 as you asked, to see if that shocks it back to life.

 

[Verstort]

On 3/11/2018 at 12:19 PM, Dust+ said:

Sounds exciting

I thought about sex offer when you try to fun with your follower. 
What you think about make one or few bad consequences as answer? I thought about it because of DCUR which I love so much. The main idea of DCUR is control your arousal level or you will find more and more cursed items. But any attemps of decrease your arousal (like soliciting) has the chance of bad consequences. You risking all the time when you try to make sex with someone. 

The sex conversation without any bad consequences seems like cheat when you playing with DCUR.

Hope you didn't take offense because I like DCUR. DEC I love too

DCUR solicit is any NPC in the game though, but DEC sex solicit is only former and current followers, which are the closest/friendliest NPCs in the game toward you, most of those risks with he DCUR solicit wouldn't work in that context (why would follower have you arrested as a slut when they can just have sex with you for their benefit?)

 

Not against the idea of risk in asking follower for sex, but not sure what that risk would be here.

 

On 3/11/2018 at 12:42 PM, bicobus said:

Please, let's assume the follower isn't stupid.

Confused. We're still talking about skyrim, right? Are you playing with some AI overhaul? I find the vanilla AI really stupid myself.

 

On 3/11/2018 at 12:42 PM, bicobus said:

Skyrim is a game based around the player, the only individual that can make actual decisions. Don't troll the player by adding more items or by using a random outcome, there are already plenty of other mods that does that specific thing.

It doesn't seem outrageous that a gagged player might not be understood by an NPC. If the player said "I want you to tie me up" 5 minutes ago, is it really unexpected for the same player to ask for more items? It's the same subject, not like the follower mishears *gag noises* -> "Oh you want to discuss nuclear physics?", misunderstanding in the same subject as what is already happening seems reasonable, even likely given the gag, especially in a subject like fantasy BDSM.

 

That said, I was pointing out that I wanted dialogue in contrast to a lack of dialogue, even if benign. This in in mostly because there aren't enough dialogue trees to offer alternative to the missing "end tie-me-up", which is otherwise empty until conditions are reached. If there was enough alternate gameplay such that the absence of the dialogue doesn't leave the player bored and waiting for the game to end, then I wouldn't be so against removing it.

 

I want the player to be able to interact with the follower while the game is active. No waiting for hours and hours with nothing to do if the rest of the game is too boring. That's what I hate about the sasha game, there's some stupid long timer like 5 in-game hours between interactions with sasha. What kind of relationship puts such an insanely long delay between interactions? I feel there should be more depth to devious interactions than the binary state of inbondage, if the characters aren't interacting they're just decoration, especially if the user is bored and not interested in playing the rest of the game in that state.

 

But what else can I do besides dialogue? Haven't found a reliable way to tie the player up in zaz furniture with interesting interactions, keep getting the player stuck in broken state in my tests. Follower finds sex partners in public for tied up player? Maybe, but that's a specific enough kink most users might leave it off, so need more. Drawing a blank on what else to do that would be more fun than annoying, and on subject, and proven possible in this game engine.

 

On 3/12/2018 at 11:11 AM, 2dk2c said:

I don't know if this is related but lets say hypothetically that there are badly written mods somewhere out there.

Could those mods interfere with yours in some way?

DEC used to stop doing anything but this has not happened in months.

Yesterday I installed a mod and its minions, and temporarily disabled your mod.

Now it's unconscious, it won't wake up.

But I will install .21 as you asked, to see if that shocks it back to life.

In some of the old 13.13.X versions the mod could lock up in a deadlock, but most of those have been fixed.

 

I have noticed a bug recently where the mod just stops working. For some reason the playermonitor quest is stopped, and restarting it won't get the mod working correctly.

 

I haven't figured out what causes it yet, until you mentioned it I thought it might just be a timing bug in my testing. if you type "sqv crdePlayerMonitor" in console and it says that the quest is stopped then you have found the same bug.

 

[Dust+]

3 hours ago, Verstort said:

Not against the idea of risk in asking follower for sex, but not sure what that risk would be here.

DEC already has few functions that fit well.

- Let's fuck.

  - Ok, but I want you to wear this. (Pet collar event with keys hiding (if you have this mod));

  - Ok, but we'll make some fun first (DEC bondage fun with follower event).

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Verstort said:

DCUR solicit is any NPC in the game though, but DEC sex solicit is only former and current followers, which are the closest/friendliest NPCs in the game toward you, most of those risks with he DCUR solicit wouldn't work in that context (why would follower have you arrested as a slut when they can just have sex with you for their benefit?)

 

Not against the idea of risk in asking follower for sex, but not sure what that risk would be here.

 

Confused. We're still talking about skyrim, right? Are you playing with some AI overhaul? I find the vanilla AI really stupid myself.

 

It doesn't seem outrageous that a gagged player might not be understood by an NPC. If the player said "I want you to tie me up" 5 minutes ago, is it really unexpected for the same player to ask for more items? It's the same subject, not like the follower mishears *gag noises* -> "Oh you want to discuss nuclear physics?", misunderstanding in the same subject as what is already happening seems reasonable, even likely given the gag, especially in a subject like fantasy BDSM.

 

That said, I was pointing out that I wanted dialogue in contrast to a lack of dialogue, even if benign. This in in mostly because there aren't enough dialogue trees to offer alternative to the missing "end tie-me-up", which is otherwise empty until conditions are reached. If there was enough alternate gameplay such that the absence of the dialogue doesn't leave the player bored and waiting for the game to end, then I wouldn't be so against removing it.

 

I want the player to be able to interact with the follower while the game is active. No waiting for hours and hours with nothing to do if the rest of the game is too boring. That's what I hate about the sasha game, there's some stupid long timer like 5 in-game hours between interactions with sasha. What kind of relationship puts such an insanely long delay between interactions? I feel there should be more depth to devious interactions than the binary state of inbondage, if the characters aren't interacting they're just decoration, especially if the user is bored and not interested in playing the rest of the game in that state.

 

But what else can I do besides dialogue? Haven't found a reliable way to tie the player up in zaz furniture with interesting interactions, keep getting the player stuck in broken state in my tests. Follower finds sex partners in public for tied up player? Maybe, but that's a specific enough kink most users might leave it off, so need more. Drawing a blank on what else to do that would be more fun than annoying, and on subject, and proven possible in this game engine.

 

In some of the old 13.13.X versions the mod could lock up in a deadlock, but most of those have been fixed.

 

I have noticed a bug recently where the mod just stops working. For some reason the playermonitor quest is stopped, and restarting it won't get the mod working correctly.

 

I haven't figured out what causes it yet, until you mentioned it I thought it might just be a timing bug in my testing. if you type "sqv crdePlayerMonitor" in console and it says that the quest is stopped then you have found the same bug.

 

If ideas are needed,

NPC never whips player, a zaz-housekeeping-approved animation. Several mods (OK one, "sanguine's debauchery") allow this animation.

   If you borrowed a scene from SD+ Follower could just say "since you aren't in a position to say no, Let's have some fun" and then NPC would whip player.

The DEC-MCM menu would specifically allow or disallow "discipline".

The other mods (apropos and sex-lab-aroused or SOS) might join in the chorus, saying things like "Why am I so turned on? I want him to f* me now", which is already a response (I just don't know how it's chosen)

SLA would get messages to heavily pump up player's libido.

------

"sqv crdeplayermonitor", thanks for the advice.

A player might perceive that a quest has stopped, but I wonder if there are ways to restart a quest.

I remember "resetquest", would "resetquest crdeplayermonitor" work?

The bug I've seen in the past is, player has sex with ysolda a few times (60 or so) and then CRDE thinks ysolda no longer exists, and it might list nearby

NPC's but not ysolda, or list no npc's at all if Ysolda and player are there alone.

[bicobus]

11 hours ago, Verstort said:

It doesn't seem outrageous that a gagged player might not be understood by an NPC. If the player said "I want you to tie me up" 5 minutes ago, is it really unexpected for the same player to ask for more items? It's the same subject, not like the follower mishears *gag noises* -> "Oh you want to discuss nuclear physics?", misunderstanding in the same subject as what is already happening seems reasonable, even likely given the gag, especially in a subject like fantasy BDSM.

Right, I was mostly trying to hint at context. If the NPC involved is part of a scene, then it can be safely assumed that the NPC takes the role of the dom. If the NPC was not involved, basic human gesture still exists to convey meaning: shaking the head or other body language. Gag noises are just that, noises, they don't mean anything.

 

11 hours ago, Verstort said:

That said, I was pointing out that I wanted dialogue in contrast to a lack of dialogue, even if benign. This in in mostly because there aren't enough dialogue trees to offer alternative to the missing "end tie-me-up", which is otherwise empty until conditions are reached. If there was enough alternate gameplay such that the absence of the dialogue doesn't leave the player bored and waiting for the game to end, then I wouldn't be so against removing it.

 

I want the player to be able to interact with the follower while the game is active. No waiting for hours and hours with nothing to do if the rest of the game is too boring. That's what I hate about the sasha game, there's some stupid long timer like 5 in-game hours between interactions with sasha. What kind of relationship puts such an insanely long delay between interactions? I feel there should be more depth to devious interactions than the binary state of inbondage, if the characters aren't interacting they're just decoration, especially if the user is bored and not interested in playing the rest of the game in that state.

 

But what else can I do besides dialogue? Haven't found a reliable way to tie the player up in zaz furniture with interesting interactions, keep getting the player stuck in broken state in my tests. Follower finds sex partners in public for tied up player? Maybe, but that's a specific enough kink most users might leave it off, so need more. Drawing a blank on what else to do that would be more fun than annoying, and on subject, and proven possible in this game engine.

I mostly, if not totally, agree with what you said. Bondage in skyrim seem to always carry around an air of debilitation. Once the player gets into bondage, it becomes very difficult to continue playing regular skyrim. Which is why I don't really like random DD equips, because random isn't aware of context or volition: it's never a good time to get into bondage, unless a consensual game is being played. The important point that matters is to have the player free to decide to suspend the kink games and go back to adventuring.

 

Considering that skyrim's gameplay revolve around the player, and DEC emerging gameplay is tied to the player's follower, you can change how the player moves around or interact with stuff. For instance, if the follower is a dom it could very well decides that the player now has to walk around on all four for as long as they are in the city. You could put a narrative that it is the follower that do the talking, but for simplicity's sake it would still be the player that moves around and lead. The walking around on all four can also be accompanied with bondage, I don't see why not. These kind of games mostly involve public humiliation due to the nature of the game, being in bondage and outdoor makes you look like a submissive harlot. What it doesn't mean though is that anybody can play with you. You have a relationship with your dom/follower, and the follower decides (based on MCM) which kind of game fits the moment.

 

While in the bondage game, sure the follower can "misunderstand" the player and get more devices on. It's perfectly fine because it fit the context. Hell, you could clean a dungeon then have the follower fit the player with bondage gear and give a challenge to "escape" the dungeon that way. There could also be a concept of rewards: escape under a time limit and get some lewd rewards afterward, or "points of mercy" to allow the player to make requests.

 

So yeah, in this game bondage in itself is not interesting, because, as you said with Sasha, nothing happens (especially if the player does nothing). What is required is a goal for the player to reach, and bondage is a tool to be used in the gameplay. Shout Like a Virgin uses it quite well. My point of view though, is that the player character should be a special actor and that not everybody (any NPC) can do as they pleases. The PC can chose her dom in an organic manner, for example a follower can ask "wanna bondage?" and if the player say "no" then drop it until the player ask to be a sub to that npc. The webcomic Sunstone I linked earlier is a good material to base that concept on: you start the sub/dom game softly, and as the relationship improves the bondage games becomes "harsher". However the player can stop at any time, that's a freedom that should always be present.

 

I have some ideas of scenarios that can be implemented, mostly revolving around public humiliation with the player as a sub. Those are mostly ideas to draw from, I realize they might exceed the scope of this mod.

• Player Pet - Already explained the concept earlier in this post. The player is asked to move around on all four, can only say "woof" but that "woof" as a meaning - the game would display a dialogue like "Woof? (What do you have for sale?", implying the follower is talking instead of the player. Player can be asked to be naked or wear bondage all the while.
• Free use - The follower ask if the player wants to play a game, bind the player in stocks then advertise free intercourse to NPC around. All the while a dialogue can also be present where the player can ask to stop, but get denied. This could also be linked to the mod Pet Play.
• Khajiit Contract - Khajiits have a nose for profits and are well aware that proper shackled are needed for the war effort. The player is being lent to some Khajiit as a live model to display some bondage shackles to some stormcloak/imperial officials. Can also a mean to make money. Of course, to test the reliability of the restraints, the player will be tasked to do various jobs, like running or mining or whatever else you may find interesting. A more realistic scenario is to have the follower display different bondage gears the player is wearing to a Jarl or someone else, with dialogues.
• Entertainment - Dance and entertain enough people in the city. Bonus points if naked or revealing, more if in bondage, thus the gears the player is wearing is relevant. A poll at the end of the dance will tell the player if she did good, NPC answers could range from "I'm so aroused" to "You suck at this, go home to your mother milk drinker!".
• Prostitute - You could try to link to TDF or Radiant Prostitution and have the follower as an informal pimp.

 

I hope I don't come as too harsh or too delusional :-)

 

Bug Report Section

I noticed some weird things in my log.

 

I don't know what I was doing during this one. I was inside whiterun castle.

[03/14/2018 - 03:46:04PM] [CRDE] time before NPC search: 0.401001
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:04PM] [CRDE] invalid: Skeleton is hostile or in combat
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:10PM] ERROR: Unable to call GetNthRef - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type
stack:
	[<NULL form> (0001A274)].Cell.GetNthRef() - "<native>" Line ?
	[crdeNPCMonitor (2F021827)].crdenpcmonitorscript.getClosestActor() - "crdenpcmonitorscript.psc" Line 158
	[crdePlayerMonitor (2F001827)].crdeplayermonitorscript.attemptApproach() - "crdeplayermonitorscript.psc" Line 935
	[crdePlayerMonitor (2F001827)].crdeplayermonitorscript.OnUpdate() - "crdeplayermonitorscript.psc" Line 264
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:10PM] [CRDE] closest npcs: [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:11PM] [Zad]: RepopulateNpcs()
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:11PM] [CRDE] time after NPC search: 7.312012
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:11PM] [CRDE] No nearby NPCs, leaving early
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:11PM] [CRDE] OnUpdate time:7.338989
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:31PM] [CRDE] Player is in UI, busy

 

This line is weird, I was outside whiterun near a khajiit caravan.

[03/14/2018 - 04:08:58PM] [CRDE] closest npcs: [[WIDeadBodyCleanupScript < (000C8225)>], [TGAssaultFenceScript < (00074341)>], [TrainerGoldScript < (0007433F)>], None, None, None, None, None, None, None]

TrainerGoldScript?

[shadowwolf2k7]

@bicobus

 

it might be detecting the khajiit that is a sneak trainer. i believe you get the same line when in riverwood near fandrell, since he is an archery trainer

[Guest]

As for the petplay idea walking around like a dog I wish someone would make use of the tail anal plugs made by heretical resources ^^

[HexBolt8]

21 hours ago, Verstort said:

But what else can I do besides dialogue?

Besides the good suggestions made above, there are spells in DD Integration, Devious Stream/Surge/Flood.  Not sure if those could be scripted to be used by an NPC on the PC, but if so that would be another way for the follower to do something interesting with the PC.

 

There's also something that Submissive Lola does, a quick in-town assignment to show a random (but unique, non-child) NPC what a slut you are by offering sex or a boot licking. 

 

I like in-town interactions (as long as I eventually get to interact with the merchants), because it's generally pretty safe and doesn't interfere if I'm actually adventuring.  

[valcon767]

23 hours ago, Verstort said:

I want the player to be able to interact with the follower while the game is active. No waiting for hours and hours with nothing to do if the rest of the game is too boring. That's what I hate about the sasha game, there's some stupid long timer like 5 in-game hours between interactions with sasha. What kind of relationship puts such an insanely long delay between interactions? I feel there should be more depth to devious interactions than the binary state of inbondage, if the characters aren't interacting they're just decoration, especially if the user is bored and not interested in playing the rest of the game in that state.

 

But what else can I do besides dialogue? Haven't found a reliable way to tie the player up in zaz furniture with interesting interactions, keep getting the player stuck in broken state in my tests. Follower finds sex partners in public for tied up player? Maybe, but that's a specific enough kink most users might leave it off, so need more. Drawing a blank on what else to do that would be more fun than annoying, and on subject, and proven possible in this game engine.

 

hmm a possible mod you could code mug from would be the old DDMDQ (https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1576-abandoned-devious-device-more-devious-quest/)

and permission is already given to reuse the code in other mods.

i was thinking specifically of the Devious Worker part of the mod.

just an idea

 

something else i just ran into something that i am not sure if it is a design choice, issue, or something specific to my mod setup:

it has to do with gags and "games" (or fun time or whatever it is called)

the following occurs when not playing a "game", in the middle of a "game", or just finished a "game"

when my pc is gagged (does not matter how i got gagged, this mod, another mod, put on myself) my follower acts as if we are playing "games"  no other gag-talk

is available for pc to talk to follower at all.  gag-talk to anyone else works normally.  it does follow the Sub/Dom relationship of the follower though, as seen when

looking at follower dialogue section of mcm (leads me to think it is a design choice, but i could be wrong).

 

my question is simply is this a design choice? or have i hit a bug and/or something specific to my load out?

 

[Verstort]

18 hours ago, 2dk2c said:

If ideas are needed,

NPC never whips player, a zaz-housekeeping-approved animation. Several mods (OK one, "sanguine's debauchery") allow this animation.

   If you borrowed a scene from SD+ Follower could just say "since you aren't in a position to say no, Let's have some fun" and then NPC would whip player.

The DEC-MCM menu would specifically allow or disallow "discipline".

The other mods (apropos and sex-lab-aroused or SOS) might join in the chorus, saying things like "Why am I so turned on? I want him to f* me now", which is already a response (I just don't know how it's chosen)

SLA would get messages to heavily pump up player's libido.

------

"sqv crdeplayermonitor", thanks for the advice.

A player might perceive that a quest has stopped, but I wonder if there are ways to restart a quest.

I remember "resetquest", would "resetquest crdeplayermonitor" work?

The bug I've seen in the past is, player has sex with ysolda a few times (60 or so) and then CRDE thinks ysolda no longer exists, and it might list nearby

NPC's but not ysolda, or list no npc's at all if Ysolda and player are there alone.

I got really sick of the whipping animation, since it seems like every BDSM mod used it at once point in time.

 

DEC getting a stuck NPC search I haven't seen in ages, can't remember if it was fixed or not replicatable. If it breaks again, switch to alternate NPC search, which bypasses the stuck NPC searching quest, and post the save with log to help me find it again.

11 hours ago, bicobus said:

Right, I was mostly trying to hint at context. If the NPC involved is part of a scene, then it can be safely assumed that the NPC takes the role of the dom. If the NPC was not involved, basic human gesture still exists to convey meaning: shaking the head or other body language. Gag noises are just that, noises, they don't mean anything.

 

I mostly, if not totally, agree with what you said. Bondage in skyrim seem to always carry around an air of debilitation. Once the player gets into bondage, it becomes very difficult to continue playing regular skyrim. Which is why I don't really like random DD equips, because random isn't aware of context or volition: it's never a good time to get into bondage, unless a consensual game is being played. The important point that matters is to have the player free to decide to suspend the kink games and go back to adventuring.

 

Considering that skyrim's gameplay revolve around the player, and DEC emerging gameplay is tied to the player's follower, you can change how the player moves around or interact with stuff. For instance, if the follower is a dom it could very well decides that the player now has to walk around on all four for as long as they are in the city. You could put a narrative that it is the follower that do the talking, but for simplicity's sake it would still be the player that moves around and lead. The walking around on all four can also be accompanied with bondage, I don't see why not. These kind of games mostly involve public humiliation due to the nature of the game, being in bondage and outdoor makes you look like a submissive harlot. What it doesn't mean though is that anybody can play with you. You have a relationship with your dom/follower, and the follower decides (based on MCM) which kind of game fits the moment.

 

While in the bondage game, sure the follower can "misunderstand" the player and get more devices on. It's perfectly fine because it fit the context. Hell, you could clean a dungeon then have the follower fit the player with bondage gear and give a challenge to "escape" the dungeon that way. There could also be a concept of rewards: escape under a time limit and get some lewd rewards afterward, or "points of mercy" to allow the player to make requests.

 

So yeah, in this game bondage in itself is not interesting, because, as you said with Sasha, nothing happens (especially if the player does nothing). What is required is a goal for the player to reach, and bondage is a tool to be used in the gameplay. Shout Like a Virgin uses it quite well. My point of view though, is that the player character should be a special actor and that not everybody (any NPC) can do as they pleases. The PC can chose her dom in an organic manner, for example a follower can ask "wanna bondage?" and if the player say "no" then drop it until the player ask to be a sub to that npc. The webcomic Sunstone I linked earlier is a good material to base that concept on: you start the sub/dom game softly, and as the relationship improves the bondage games becomes "harsher". However the player can stop at any time, that's a freedom that should always be present.

 

I have some ideas of scenarios that can be implemented, mostly revolving around public humiliation with the player as a sub. Those are mostly ideas to draw from, I realize they might exceed the scope of this mod.

• Player Pet - Already explained the concept earlier in this post. The player is asked to move around on all four, can only say "woof" but that "woof" as a meaning - the game would display a dialogue like "Woof? (What do you have for sale?", implying the follower is talking instead of the player. Player can be asked to be naked or wear bondage all the while.
• Free use - The follower ask if the player wants to play a game, bind the player in stocks then advertise free intercourse to NPC around. All the while a dialogue can also be present where the player can ask to stop, but get denied. This could also be linked to the mod Pet Play.
• Khajiit Contract - Khajiits have a nose for profits and are well aware that proper shackled are needed for the war effort. The player is being lent to some Khajiit as a live model to display some bondage shackles to some stormcloak/imperial officials. Can also a mean to make money. Of course, to test the reliability of the restraints, the player will be tasked to do various jobs, like running or mining or whatever else you may find interesting. A more realistic scenario is to have the follower display different bondage gears the player is wearing to a Jarl or someone else, with dialogues.
• Entertainment - Dance and entertain enough people in the city. Bonus points if naked or revealing, more if in bondage, thus the gears the player is wearing is relevant. A poll at the end of the dance will tell the player if she did good, NPC answers could range from "I'm so aroused" to "You suck at this, go home to your mother milk drinker!".
• Prostitute - You could try to link to TDF or Radiant Prostitution and have the follower as an informal pimp.

 

I hope I don't come as too harsh or too delusional :-)

 

I might be able to tie into the functions of other mods, but tying into dialogue, [my dialogue] -> [dialogue of another mod], is basically impossible without making that other mod a hard requirement (crash without it) to work, or I might have added in prostitution linking dialogue a long time ago. For awhile there, it seemed like there were +5 prostitution mods, and had no intention to try to link to any of them until they got fleshed out, now I can't even remember more than 2 of them.

 

Wasn't really fond of the SD+ moving around on four legs animation last I played, although I haven't seen in a while it might work.

 

That dancing thing sounds like a snarl of difficult bugs, but it's been done before so working code should exist.

 

Free use maybe, free use with ZAZ furniture requires working zaz furniture code first, especially if I wanted sex in furniture, or animations in furniture.

 

The khajit thing sounds like more work than many smaller mods, I work too slow for such a feature.

11 hours ago, bicobus said:

Bug Report Section

I noticed some weird things in my log.

 

I don't know what I was doing during this one. I was inside whiterun castle.

[03/14/2018 - 03:46:04PM] [CRDE] time before NPC search: 0.401001
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:04PM] [CRDE] invalid: Skeleton is hostile or in combat
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:10PM] ERROR: Unable to call GetNthRef - no native object bound to the script object, or object is of incorrect type
stack:
	[<NULL form> (0001A274)].Cell.GetNthRef() - "<native>" Line ?
	[crdeNPCMonitor (2F021827)].crdenpcmonitorscript.getClosestActor() - "crdenpcmonitorscript.psc" Line 158
	[crdePlayerMonitor (2F001827)].crdeplayermonitorscript.attemptApproach() - "crdeplayermonitorscript.psc" Line 935
	[crdePlayerMonitor (2F001827)].crdeplayermonitorscript.OnUpdate() - "crdeplayermonitorscript.psc" Line 264
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:10PM] [CRDE] closest npcs: [None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None, None]
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:11PM] [Zad]: RepopulateNpcs()
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:11PM] [CRDE] time after NPC search: 7.312012
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:11PM] [CRDE] No nearby NPCs, leaving early
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:11PM] [CRDE] OnUpdate time:7.338989
[03/14/2018 - 03:46:31PM] [CRDE] Player is in UI, busy

 

This line is weird, I was outside whiterun near a khajiit caravan.

[03/14/2018 - 04:08:58PM] [CRDE] closest npcs: [[WIDeadBodyCleanupScript < (000C8225)>], [TGAssaultFenceScript < (00074341)>], [TrainerGoldScript < (0007433F)>], None, None, None, None, None, None, None]

TrainerGoldScript?

I think the cell error is that the game is returning an invalid cell and I forgot to check if it was NONE and the error text is poorly attributed, but if not that what an error... no skse native object tied to the script object, sounds like the script isn't NONE and actually exists, but either lacks a cell pointer or the skse native code as an objectref?

 

If you see it again please give me more info.

 

The NPC line is a result of printing the array of NPC scripts instead of a concat of their names, for some reason some NPCs have script names that don't have anything to do with their character in game. I can change this to show ID and name instead for less confusion though.

[Verstort]

20 hours ago, Dust+ said:

DEC already has few functions that fit well.

- Let's fuck.

  - Ok, but I want you to wear this. (Pet collar event with keys hiding (if you have this mod));

  - Ok, but we'll make some fun first (DEC bondage fun with follower event).

I mean sure, dom followers putting an item requirement on asking for sex ala angrims aprentice, didn't really consider that risky in your case since DEC would remove items too if you ask the follower, cursed loot risk felt more... time consuming and game stopping.

3 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Besides the good suggestions made above, there are spells in DD Integration, Devious Stream/Surge/Flood.  Not sure if those could be scripted to be used by an NPC on the PC, but if so that would be another way for the follower to do something interesting with the PC.

 

There's also something that Submissive Lola does, a quick in-town assignment to show a random (but unique, non-child) NPC what a slut you are by offering sex or a boot licking. 

 

I like in-town interactions (as long as I eventually get to interact with the merchants), because it's generally pretty safe and doesn't interfere if I'm actually adventuring.  

The "slut it up with some random NPC" should be easy enough to implement, dialogue writing would be the slowest part I think.

 

I don't like in-town interactions, as a mod author, because there are so many devious town interactions already from other mods to mess with DEC, I can already see the bug reports for 3 mods all going off with different moods walking on each other. Way easier to play a game in the woods with a follower, or a house or a cave. Not to mention the more NPCs the more slow down and more scripts going off all at once.

 

Not saying I'm against it entirely, but its a bigger headache.

 

Edit: I mean to say other mods often aren't as diligent about stopping themselves from interfering with other mods as DEC is, but I haven't tested, maybe it's not that bad.

 

Arousal stim with the flood spell might be a bit unrealistic, how did they find the book? Never found a reliable way to get an NPC to cast a streaming spell on the player if my memory serves too.

 

1 hour ago, valcon767 said:

hmm a possible mod you could code mug from would be the old DDMDQ (https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1576-abandoned-devious-device-more-devious-quest/)

and permission is already given to reuse the code in other mods.

i was thinking specifically of the Devious Worker part of the mod.

just an idea

 

something else i just ran into something that i am not sure if it is a design choice, issue, or something specific to my mod setup:

it has to do with gags and "games" (or fun time or whatever it is called)

the following occurs when not playing a "game", in the middle of a "game", or just finished a "game"

when my pc is gagged (does not matter how i got gagged, this mod, another mod, put on myself) my follower acts as if we are playing "games"  no other gag-talk

is available for pc to talk to follower at all.  gag-talk to anyone else works normally.  it does follow the Sub/Dom relationship of the follower though, as seen when

looking at follower dialogue section of mcm (leads me to think it is a design choice, but i could be wrong).

 

my question is simply is this a design choice? or have i hit a bug and/or something specific to my load out?

 

Oh versh finally abandoned it? I got stuck last time I tried playing it, but I could try to brute force through it again to see what you're talking about.

 

Gag overwriting for followers as player is working as intended, although there isn't any specific dialogue for the follower to recognize if the game is active or not. I wanted it to override the context blind DD gag dialogue, but yes it lacks a way to get to follower dialogue and stuff like telling them to wait and inventory management, and for 14 I might just remove it when the game isn't active for now.

 

You can get around this, for now, by turning off follower dialogue toggle in the MCM to talk to them normally.

[bicobus]

1 hour ago, Verstort said:

impossible without making that other mod a hard requirement (crash without it) to work, or I might have added in prostitution linking dialogue a long time ago.

"link" was an abuse of language on my part. What I intended to mean what that you could detect if a prostitution mod is running and have the follower act like a pimp.

 

1 hour ago, Verstort said:

Wasn't really fond of the SD+ moving around on four legs animation last I played, although I haven't seen in a while it might work.

Remember that in skyrim, it is the player that makes its own story. The animation may be crap, you even could not like the idea, but I did like the concept. I'll take a crappy walk on all four over nothing . What I implied here is a narrative work, to have the player create an emotional link with the follower through different exchanges. Walking around on 4 legs isn't interesting on its own, but if it is properly introduced with a progressive exchange then it can have a good impact.

 

I believe using any follower as a pivot for a bdsm narrative is a really good idea. I don't know if you like it, or are interested in it, but if done properly it could become the first follower focused mod that truly follow skyrim's spirit. As long as it safe and non-intrusive, bondage is fine.

 

On as side note, I was delving around a crypt and only when nothing was around (outside of combat, I guess) did Lydia prompted me with a "I found something shiny in a chest!". It made me realize that it isn't easy to detect wether or not a dungeon got cleared. There is that status put on the map, but I don't think it really means anything. However she did asked me several times while in the same dungeon (or same set of cells of a dungeon, since one can have several maps). It is quite annoying to know that if I indulge in the bondage game, due to how the devious items are set up, I'll be debilitated and unable to face danger. So I had to refuse repeatedly: I can't do bondage until this whole dungeon is cleared. And I can only do bondage if you (the follower) can remove them when it is required (on player request).

 

After this experience, I feel a bit sad that the requests weren't properly timed. On another hand, it gave me an idea to improve things! Why only focus on bondage? Why not investigate a way to have a proper dialogue with the different followers, so that the interaction do not stop with just "ooh, shiny!". It does requires a bit of writing and knowledge as how to tell a story, I mean lydia is mostly silent. On another end, it would be a daunting task to create a backstory for each vanilla follower and then give them some kinks. A daunting task it may be, but could very well be worth it. I'm interested in this, but I'm not a writer (I don't know how to tell a story) and all I can do with the CK is editing/adding entries.

2 hours ago, Verstort said:

If you see it again please give me more info.

Will do.

[shadowwolf2k7]

i have an idea as to improve the follower finding items, that @bicobus might even like. have it set to find items that the player missed (which is already an option). but have an option to where the follower will say something to the effect "hey i found so items you missed. i know we are in a dungeon and it could be unsafe to use these here. so lets hurry home so we can play with these items." when entering a safe city ie whiterun, the follower could come forward and say, "now that we are safely back in whiterun. lets get these items on you. i know they will look great on you." could be any city with a load screen, or could even require the player home for it. could have it choose 5 to 10 items to equip, and the follower wouldnt remove them for 30 in game min.

 

as for someone like me, i dont mind the follower placing gags, belts/plugs, or even the suits. as long as the hands are not bound due to it interfering with game play. i know shouting is part of the game but most of my play throughs are either stealth based or magic based, the heavy bondage from yokes makes it harder to play even armbinders can be annoying. but if it doesnt interfer with how i want to play at the time, then the current setup works and should be an option, with the above option as well.

[HexBolt8]

11 hours ago, Verstort said:

The "slut it up with some random NPC" should be easy enough to implement, dialogue writing would be the slowest part I think.

I poked through the code in for this in Submissive Lola, and it doesn't seem too complex (mod is abandoned, and I can't imagine that the author would might your looking at it for implementation techniques).  The dialogue is minimal.  Follower kicks it off with a single line, and the quest starts.  The quest only runs during the day in large cities, when many NPCs are out.  It selects one unique (named, no guards) adult NPC within 1000 units (you could also check if NPC is wearing bondage gear to minimize conflicts) and tells the PC to go there.  While the quest is running, when the PC interacts with that NPC it initiates a simple conversation.  Two different lines depending on gender of the NPC, with two responses for the PC (to choose to do oral sex or boot licking), the scene plays, and the quest ends.  The time frame is short (you're given an hour game time and punished if you fail), so conflicts should be minimal.  Not trying to push this idea, just saying that if you want to pursue it, the dialogue need not be complex.

 

I was also thinking about the earlier discussion on misunderstandings.  Of course that has to fit your concept, as the mod author, of what this mod should do, and how much spice it should add to game play.  Just offering an opinion, but it seems to me that even an inept (Skyrim AI) follower need not be stupid.  If this were reality, the first time a follower decides that Mmph means "add more devices", that follower gets an earful when the gag comes off.  Second time, the follower gets dismissed.  Because it's easy enough to ask and wait for a head shake "yes" or "no" (with an optional "Mmph" choice if the player is bored and prefers to let RNG decide his fate).  Depending on the dom/sub sliders, it could be entirely reasonable for the follower to decide that your "no" really means "yes" though. 

[CovertDemon]

What's new in the latest update?

[valcon767]

18 hours ago, Verstort said:

1 Oh versh finally abandoned it? I got stuck last time I tried playing it, but I could try to brute force through it again to see what you're talking about.

 

2 Gag overwriting for followers as player is working as intended, although there isn't any specific dialogue for the follower to recognize if the game is active or not. I wanted it to override the context blind DD gag dialogue, but yes it lacks a way to get to follower dialogue and stuff like telling them to wait and inventory management, and for 14 I might just remove it when the game isn't active for now.

 

You can get around this, for now, by turning off follower dialogue toggle in the MCM to talk to them normally.

1 - yes it is now abandoned, i will put it back in and check for the exact dialogue line to start that part of that mod.

     i know it worked with Blacksmith's, General Merchants, and Jarls.  to start the "Devious Worker" part what was required was simply

     for the pc to be visibly wearing a devious device, then talk to the blacksmith, merchant, Jarl.  the pc would gain (according to the mcm for 

     that part of the mod) and could do 1 task, or up to the mcm set limit, and the more done the more was earned, and could stop at completion

     of any task (ie after 1 task, or do up to the full number set in the mcm).

 

2 - good to know (in case of needs type mods), and the fact that it is a design choice means it is all fine

 

[bicobus]

I finished the Ustengrav dungeon, then told lydia "let's have some fun" (just sex). I got this weird things in the log:

[03/15/2018 - 10:35:10PM] [CRDE] updating clothing vulnerability ...
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:10PM] [CRDE] situational(sex fame/night/temporary event/bukkake): (0/1:0:0)
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:10PM] [CRDE] vuln lvl(clothing/situation/total): (0:1:1)
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:13PM] [CRDE] doPlayerSex, before sexstart prepare function, time: 0.100006
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] [CRDE] prepare result: 0
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] Error: Incorrect number of arguments passed. Expected 1, got 4. 
stack:
	<empty stack>
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] Error: Incorrect number of arguments passed. Expected 1, got 4. 
stack:
	<empty stack>
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] Error: Incorrect number of arguments passed. Expected 1, got 4. 
stack:
	<empty stack>
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] Error: Incorrect number of arguments passed. Expected 1, got 4. 
stack:
	<empty stack>
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] [CRDE] doPlayerSex, before the animation search through DDi, time: 0.182983

Followed by a list of animations and the usual sexlab output. Empty stack?!

[Verstort]

15 hours ago, shadowwolf2k7 said:

i have an idea as to improve the follower finding items, that @bicobus might even like. have it set to find items that the player missed (which is already an option). but have an option to where the follower will say something to the effect "hey i found so items you missed. i know we are in a dungeon and it could be unsafe to use these here. so lets hurry home so we can play with these items." when entering a safe city ie whiterun, the follower could come forward and say, "now that we are safely back in whiterun. lets get these items on you. i know they will look great on you." could be any city with a load screen, or could even require the player home for it. could have it choose 5 to 10 items to equip, and the follower wouldnt remove them for 30 in game min.

 

as for someone like me, i dont mind the follower placing gags, belts/plugs, or even the suits. as long as the hands are not bound due to it interfering with game play. i know shouting is part of the game but most of my play throughs are either stealth based or magic based, the heavy bondage from yokes makes it harder to play even armbinders can be annoying. but if it doesnt interfer with how i want to play at the time, then the current setup works and should be an option, with the above option as well.

Delaying approach until end of dungeon might not be as easy as I think it is. Detecting when the player isn't in a cave/dungeon/castle/building is already broken and I need to find a better system for that. If I just detect that the player is leaving a finished dungeon into a different cell, we might get false possitive if its one part of those double cell dungeons. Detecting even where the player is standing is also broken, sometimes the overworld the player will count as standing in a NONE cell, and its happened once in a certain dungeon, so at least false negatives will occur unless I find a better detection system.

 

I wanted the finder item approach to only happen when the follower and player are alone, not in cities though. If I can detect that a dungeon is complete or not, It might be a good idea to avoid adding items until the dungeon is cleared.

 

56 minutes ago, bicobus said:

I finished the Ustengrav dungeon, then told lydia "let's have some fun" (just sex). I got this weird things in the log:

[03/15/2018 - 10:35:10PM] [CRDE] updating clothing vulnerability ...
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:10PM] [CRDE] situational(sex fame/night/temporary event/bukkake): (0/1:0:0)
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:10PM] [CRDE] vuln lvl(clothing/situation/total): (0:1:1)
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:13PM] [CRDE] doPlayerSex, before sexstart prepare function, time: 0.100006
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] [CRDE] prepare result: 0
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] Error: Incorrect number of arguments passed. Expected 1, got 4. 
stack:
	<empty stack>
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] Error: Incorrect number of arguments passed. Expected 1, got 4. 
stack:
	<empty stack>
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] Error: Incorrect number of arguments passed. Expected 1, got 4. 
stack:
	<empty stack>
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] Error: Incorrect number of arguments passed. Expected 1, got 4. 
stack:
	<empty stack>
[03/15/2018 - 10:35:14PM] [CRDE] doPlayerSex, before the animation search through DDi, time: 0.182983

Followed by a list of animations and the usual sexlab output. Empty stack?!

This error usually shows up when a mod sets off a mod event with the wrong number of parameters. There is no stack because its a new thread and the native game is ignored by the stack to text function. Which mod event, which mod casting it, is a mystery. Well this one is DEC, unfinished feature throwing the error, but no harm being caused at least.