Request Your Mods From Me

[SexDwarf2250]

 

 

 

 

Slavery isn't legal in Skyrim. So this is already straying from the base plan.

 

Are we not supposed to discuss ideas that would be illegal in Skyrim? How does that make sense?

 

Then why did i read of slavery PERMITS then ?

Coherency, much ?

 

You seem fairly literate, I'm sure you can figure out what the point was.

 

Skyrim does have prisons, and I'm not sure why you bring up that, or wergeld, or the legal system of Skyrim.

It's the fracking subject of this conversation man.

 

I never said anything about prisons.

 

 

What does this have to do with the kidnapping thing ? O_o

Yes, so, rewriting from scratch their AI in the engine, giving them a "suspect" stance they don't have, make them scan with scripts, nothing invasive or complicated.

Maybe you want them to forcegreet automatically a player with a bag ? Where's the gameplay in that ? Behind a RNG bluff check ? Even better !

 

I'm saying, for example, it would be much preferable if guards didn't ignore blatantly obvious murderers.

 

Line of sight is the crudest way to implement a basic crime system. "Does anyone see you doing a bad thing? (Y/N)" and that's it. It's basically as close to nothing as you can get and still have it function. Skyrim also isn't a modern metropolitan area, so I guess we're stuck with the size.

Given there's no CCTV it's kinda the only way, you want them to ask for the CSI Whiterun team ?

Every game in which infiltration is the main feature actually use the same line of sight principle, how do you propose to do better then them all in a Skyrim mod ? I'd really be interested.

 

Yeah, they all use it, because it's the most basic part of it. The difference is that they don't all rely merely on this, and I'm certain Skyrim could do better as well. Anyway, it's just a discussion, I don't know why you're so defensive and condescending.

[Alploochra]

You tried to hijack the conversation by asking for a slavery legal structure in a game where it's illegal and while the point of the conversation was keeping it being illegal.
You seem to achieve the mighty feat of having reading comprehension failure with your own words. That's impressive.

EDIT: And now editing the insults from your own posts to smooth things up. Let the grown ups do the talking, thank you.

[SexDwarf2250]

EDIT: And now editing the insults from your own posts to smooth things up. Let the grown ups do the talking, thank you.

 

Do you think being rude is a sign of maturity?

 

 

You tried to hijack the conversation by asking for a slavery legal structure in a game where it's illegal and while the point of the conversation was keeping it being illegal.

You seem to achieve the mighty feat of having reading comprehension failure with your own words. That's impressive.

 

So, an agreement with the Jarl or whomever to overlook slaving would not be, strictly speaking, a legal one, hm? Was that so difficult?

 

Also, are you saying I should suggest ideas in another thread rather than hijack than your own?

[Alploochra]

Given the word permit was said, it's the definition of a legal one. o_O


Now implementing "illegal traffic with influencing people" options may be a somewhat very good idea on the other hand. I'm thinking of some obvious interested parties (Maven Black-Briar and Siddgeir, Dres remnants, ...). But that's clearly still illegal.
Like, you can ask for Riften guards to not look in your sack "because of Black-Briar business" but they wouldn't let you bag someone in the street either. "I don't want to know".
That would better be a quest mod content (SkyCorr !) than a framework stuff though (but it is what i called earlier "an opener" for the framework and a reason for it to be). With quests to make the subject a thing to begin with (convincing/proving/corrupting the authority figures).

Prisons ? Well because we were speaking of legal/crime system and this only has two parts in the game - bounties and prison.
You can't speak of the legal system without thinking prison, and yes people are mainly complaining on this subject that the character can legally avoid prison with money so i was stating background stuff that makes fines being in-lore.

Blatantly obvious murderers ?
First, the game engine can't manage that better and that's probably hardcoded. We probably have to go with it as is.
Second, it's actually not so irrealistic than that, because Skyrim is a lot scandinavian in concept and there is no accusations except when there is a witness (it's in the game). And even there only kinslaying and "hidden murders" are really illegal. And you can go away with fines with nearly everything else or even "hidden murders" - you're not protected against retaliations though, and the game do send thugs at you to cover this. So things are limited but they sort of can be accepted in context.
There's also the fact that what happens outside Holds seats, especially in the middle of a civil war and with a bandit infestation going, will never be considered a murder without witness (and it actually being a crime). Can be dealt with too i think.

In fact it's sending you other things than thugs that should be added (it's the main idea - and sort of only idea apart from thane retinues - behind the Kinship module for SkyCorr, having reputations and feuds with clans and neverending bloodsheds and funny customs)

EDIT:
STOP SMOOTH-EDITING YOUR POSTS

[Alploochra]

Another edit in response to edit:
No, just not being an ass when explained it's not the point.

-> " slavery permits are out of range of the concept being discussed in which it is illegal"

[SexDwarf2250]

-> " slavery permits are out of range of the concept being discussed in which it is illegal"

 

I was actually voicing my own concepts and ideas, so the range of your concept is not relevant to me, and I was well aware of weregeld in germanic law. I don't care about prisons. Or are you saying it's outside of Feliks' range of ideas we can discuss here?

 

As far as feasibility, there are already mods that creatively improve guard and witness behaviour in different ways, even masks and anonymity systems, for vanilla crime gameplay. Your argument that these things are too difficult holds no water.

 

So, there's a gap with a lot of the crime you find in mods at LL, since they're not addressed, or not compatible.

 

Incidentally, your assumption that not being caught red-handed at the moment you did the crime meant that in old times you had nothing to fear from the guards or by way of court conviction is also incorrect.

[Feliks]

Well this has been an interesting discussion, good talk guys.

 

I'd like to chime in if you guys don't mind (or if you do, I don't care)

• Slavery is canonically illegal in Tamriel. Fact.
• Actually dragging a sack is going to be incredibly difficult and probably not part of the mod, so it essentially turns into LoS anyways like the vanilla witness system, but with a forcegreet if the guards see shit.
• Yes there are ways to change detection, but when you get right down to them, all they really do is manipulate the LoS and then change how you can stop crimes from being reported. There are plenty of these, so this wouldn't even be part of the mod, I'd just recommend a few that did it.
• Please use spoilers for large quotes if this disagreement continues.
• I honestly don't care if this disagreement continues, both sides are making valid points, and the thread benefits by staying near the top of the forums, so.

[JDol]

I don't think the current crime detection system would actually have to be modified for this to work.

 

The auto-greet for a player carrying a sack over the shoulder ("equipped" as in Defeat is most likely the simplest way, not actually dragging it) would be enough in this scenario, especially since this auto challenge would only happen if the player is actually seen (that's what sneak is for, I'm guessing?) and the crime happens in a city (taking a captive to your personal home slap-bang in the middle of a town is a bit silly after all)

 

I have a few questions for implementation of crime detection though, since I don't really know what's possible in the engine.

 

- Is it possible to flag it to make the challenge happen only if the NPC carried is good / neutral? Or better still, change the challenge dialogue based on that? My logic here is that carrying a captured bandit to the guard barracks is not really a crime, while trying to sneak out of town with a citizen most certainly is.

 

- Is it possible to change the crime report radius dynamically rather than globally? I know of a mod in the Nexus that changes crime report radius, but I was wondering whether it would be possible to have ungagged NPCs ask for help with the normal radius, and gagged ones with a severely reduced one (say, size of a room) but still be able to try.

 

- Skyrim has both a "flee" behaviour for NPCs (they run and cower in corners, head for doors, etc) and a "report crime" behaviour (witnesses run away, and a player bounty is added if they manage to escape). Can these two be added to NPCs dynamically as well? My point earlier with having restraints be struggled out of independently was for a system I had in mind that was roughly like this: if an NPC manages to get its legs free, it would either engage into the flee behaviour (hence getting seen and having another NPC report it) or attempt to run away "as a witness" directly and report the player if not captured back.

 

This last mechanic would have two applications: give the player a limited time to, for instance, loot a house and leave the premises (the NPC could get free and report the player, or start yelling), and make it riskier to leave captured NPCs at a safe house unattended. In the latter case, since the NPC would likely not attempt to struggle if the cell is not active, it could be made simply so there's a chance that the NPC would unequip a restraint upon cell loading. In that way, you could leave a captured NPC in a safe place, leave, fast travel back, and find them shouting for help or trying to make a run for it.

 

An option could be added to "permanently tie", either via player interaction or strictly hidden in an internal function (MCM option?), so this doesn't happen to captives in rescue quests (would be a bit problematic if they freed themselves when the cave / lair / dungeon loads and got killed). The reason why it may be a good idea to hide this option from the player is that, with the "permanently tie" option accessible, there is literally no reason to incorporate struggling at all, and the mod is reduced to essentially posing the captive, which adds no gameplay whatsoever and is already done by a lot of other mods.

 

As you can see, my objective here is making it coherent and immersive so the system is interesting in itself, as well as setting up for other mods to use it (the player could get a bounty added in any of the above situations and end up enjoying Prison Overhaul if that's their thing, or just use the system "as is" as I would), and realistic without being downright punishing.

 

If you guys find this interesting I could detail how I think the struggling system should work.

 

Cheers!

[Alploochra]

 

I was actually voicing my own concepts and ideas, so the range of your concept is not relevant to me, and I was well aware of weregeld in germanic law. I don't care about prisons. Or are you saying it's outside of Feliks' range of ideas we can discuss here?

 

So you hop in a discussion between two people, change the subject, then whine aggressively (and write insults you edit out) when toldin a neutral stance they were not speaking of this.

 

Grow up.

 

 

 

As far as feasibility, there are already mods that creatively improve guard and witness behaviour in different ways, even masks and anonymity systems, for vanilla crime gameplay. Your argument that these things are too difficult holds no water.

Which are all line of sight based.

And the alias/anonymity ones don't change a fuck about the detection system, they just give the bounty to someone else.

 

Ill faith won't give you moral high ground.

 

 

So, there's a gap with a lot of the crime you find in mods at LL, since they're not addressed, or not compatible.

There are mods to make them crimes (indecency, public sex, rapes,...).

And the "slavery" (fantasy bdsm) mods around don't give a fuck about legality and that's just why.

You can include anything into the existing crime system by making it bounty worth. Including parading a slave or carrying a specific object (a body bag ?).

 

And you're trying to dilute your rudeness and wrongness there.

 

 

Incidentally, your assumption that not being caught red-handed at the moment you did the crime meant that in old times you had nothing to fear from the guards or by way of court conviction is also incorrect.

1- No, it's not an assumption.

2- The cases I clearly spoke of earlier are not "red handed catch". That's the point. Someone has to report you in scandinavian viking era. They don't need to be actual witness that's all, they can do it on assumption or be moral witness, and in every cases i know of, are kin to the victim. And that's another Thing entirely (yeah it's a historical pune) to include that ingame. You're also not even a suspect before your culpability has been proven.

3- Being near a corpse with a bloody weapon doesn't make you an obvious murderer. It makes you an obvious winner in a fight. That's not legally a crime (except if the dead body has real obvious wounds indicating it has been murdered by surprise AND noone new of your grievance against him/you've been caught hiding the body/you've not reported to one of the three first person or stead door you've encountered that you killed the man; or if he's kin - as mentionned earlier).

Adding some lines to npcs that are triggered by the "oh my, a body !" vanilla reaction they have can actually really simply roleplay that.

4- There are no guards in scandinavian or proto-germanic society. There are guards in Skyrim because of the civil war and actually having a playable crime system in which you can play a burglar (like in other TES games).

5- Any case of "caught at the moment you did it" (litterally) fall under the bounty detection system.

[Alploochra]

I don't think the current crime detection system would actually have to be modified for this to work.

 

The auto-greet for a player carrying a sack over the shoulder ("equipped" as in Defeat is most likely the simplest way, not actually dragging it) would be enough in this scenario, especially since this auto challenge would only happen if the player is actually seen (that's what sneak is for, I'm guessing?) and the crime happens in a city (taking a captive to your personal home slap-bang in the middle of a town is a bit silly after all)

Current crime system is sufficient - one of my points so yes i'm pretty on the same page than you here.

It's not a technical problem we've here, it's a gameplay one. Guards will check you in cities, you can't avoid them, they are at the gates. In any other place than a city, they don't make any impact on the feature and so the said feature is pointless.

So it's either making them bluffable (which becomes a random roll, which has no gameplay value, and will be saved/loaded ; or an automatic win under specific circumstancies, which has no gameplay value) or avoidable (with secret tunnels or spacious sewers for example, that makes the feature uninteresting and kind of tedious to work on for little effect).

 

Maybe something like random spawning and patrolling guards (or vaguely aimed at the npc guards) with the alternate escape route thing may be a solution (a "can't get past the gates and i need to avoid the guards in my way to the sewers" scenario). Lot of work though. The plus side being it could also be used for other crimes or quests, like high value thefts or specific murders (like jarls).

 

Another gameplay problem is the incentive: there's no point in bagging someone in a city at the moment, and it's a free feature outside.

With joined quest mods of course it's another thing (like the ones you have heard of Feliks ).

 

 

 

- Is it possible to flag it to make the challenge happen only if the NPC carried is good / neutral? (...)

 

Faction is probably stored somewhere with the bagged npc and could be the check.

 

- Is it possible to change the crime report radius dynamically rather than globally?

Maybe less script intensive by making it on/off ?

 

 

[JDol]

So it's either making them bluffable (which becomes a random roll, which has no gameplay value, and will be saved/loaded ; or an automatic win under specific circumstancies, which has no gameplay value) or avoidable (with secret tunnels or spacious sewers for example, that makes the feature uninteresting and kind of tedious to work on for little effect).

 

 That is an excellent point – although it's comparable to saying that all speech rolls in the vanilla game add nothing to gameplay. Which is completely true in my view and I agree with you from a game design perspective, but hey, they are there.

 

Now, perhaps a more interesting solution would be the NPC "waking up" if some conditions are met (perhaps after a certain amount of time has elapsed since the bagging or something along those lines) and making gagged sounds which would prompt the autogreet? In any case, I'm more concerned with detection pre-bagging at the moment as I'll explain at the end of the post   

 

Another gameplay problem is the incentive: there's no point in bagging someone in a city at the moment, and it's a free feature outside.

With joined quest mods of course it's another thing (like the ones you have heard of Feliks ).

 That is true as well, although I can imagine the scenario of abducting a neutral / good NPC outside a city and then trying to sneak him / her in.

 

As for the quests, that is among other things why I think a more "modular" system is in order. I agree that quests would be necessary for proper immersion, although they could be made in a separate file (such as the current DD Integration being separate from the assets right now) to let players customise their experience.

 

Ideally, the mod should specialise on one thing and do it well, then "play nice" with other mods that could expand it. The more things it does, the worse it will do them, and the more conflicts it will have with other mods.

 

Maybe less script intensive by making it on/off ?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this.

 

My idea was to make gagged NPCs still be able to call for help, but with a considerably reduced radius – in a bandit lair raid or a house robbery, an NPC gagged in one room would easily be heard by another NPC over in the next room, and it would make the player have to take more things into account to avoid getting caught.

 

Basically, an NPC that is gagged and awake would make gagged sounds (the ones in DD would be perfect really) at every struggle attempt, attracting the attention of nearby NPCs ("alert" if the NPC is good, "investigate noise" by its mates if the NPC is evil). In a stealth setting, this would require the player to move tied-up NPCs around to avoid detection, and in the case of kidnappings it would actually make it possible for the player to get caught in a way that makes sense. To make things more interesting, kidnapping quests could require a couple of days to elapse between the kidnapping and the delivery (to avoid being associated with the crime and whatnot) so the player would have to have a lair, keep the NPC from escaping, etc. This would make guard intervention more useful too, since you cannot just sit it out in Breezehome and walz through the gate as if nothing happened – you would have to temporarily establish yourself in an abandoned bandit camp or beast lair.

 

"Permanently tied" NPCs in rescue quests would still try to struggle and make said noises (to guide the player in their direction and make things more immersive overall) but, not having any same-faction NPCs in the area, they would not disturb the order of things.

 

Finally, an NPC finally managing to struggle out of the gag would most definitely get the player in trouble, unless in a very isolated place like one of the Hearthfire homes or a shack in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses.

 

What did you mean by "on / off" though? I meant only two different alert radii based on the gagged / ungagged flag.

[Manax]

I have had 2 ideas that I tried to work on but found quickly that I dont have the time to learn the scripting necessary to accomplish my concepts:

 

Pet Dragon

 

I had toyed with the idea of a pet dragon that was small and could ride on the PC's shoulder and could be ordered to follow the PC.  It could cycle through random idles when the player was idle like sitting on the PC's shoulder, circling the PC, or doing its own thing.

 

It would attack the PC's enemies when attacked and so on.

 

Current dragon aniamtions would work, but it would have to find its perch on the PC's shoulder and be able to ride there.

 

Ambush

 

I also tried to figure out how to script getting my followers to remain in certain places and attack Thalmor patrols.

 

Quests built that utilized this skill to rid Skyrim of any unwanted faction would be a nice addition.

 

The player could signal the attack with a horn or flaming arrow, etc

 

 

These are just ideas but would love to see them in the game.

[Alploochra]

 

 That is an excellent point – although it's comparable to saying that all speech rolls in the vanilla game add nothing to gameplay. Which is completely true in my view and I agree with you from a game design perspective, but hey, they are there.

 

 

They are not rolls - you either always pass them, or you don't, and the threshold depends on some factors.

Persuasion checks have a target speech value and the perk make the value lower, fixed amount (except for the easier ones).

Intimidation checks also take levels into the mix to decide the threshold.

 

The fun value is rather poor, but they are in fact shortcuts in quests/battles more than dynamic features, and the perks make you better at gaining those shortcuts, so it's in fact a gameplay mechanic. Just not a dynamic one. You have other ways to do the same thing.

 

The thing we're speaking of - saving your bacon in a random roll - is another situation. We have a problem here because, except by making the guards reasonably killable (a bad idea, it's likely destroying the whole point of them being there), we don't have a longer route the bluff can shortcut.

 

 

 

 

 

 That is true as well, although I can imagine the scenario of abducting a neutral / good NPC outside a city and then trying to sneak him / her in. (...)

You can forget this part as being problematic - there will probably be no point in the framework to bag people into cities, but there will be (with reasonable probability) mods using the feature. So it's okay to put this into a framework from a design perspective.

 

Maybe less script intensive by making it on/off ?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this.

Instead of making what will probably constant script checks for a second detection area, just disable sound detection if the victim is gagged. Someone knowing about script load should see this and decide.

 

 

Basically, (...)

 

Kind of simplier to knock him out.

This feature is in Perkus Maximus, using blunt weapons, can be taken as is.

Sleep potions could be cool too. With the retro-pickpocketing for example.

 

 

Passing guards check points by knocking out the victim is also far more pertinent.

 

 

I'm pretty suspicious of a feature asking the player to babysit the victim for two days though. Especially given you need to be in the cell to have anything happen. Are you sure to know how to make it fun ?

 

"Permanently tied" NPCs in rescue quests would still try to struggle and make said noises (to guide the player in their direction and make things more immersive overall) but, not having any same-faction NPCs in the area, they would not disturb the order of things.

I think they're kind of really shitty gags if you can follow the moans through a dungeon to find the victim.

 

Maybe moans and gag sounds should only be there for immersion and not impact gameplay.

 

 

 

PS:

There's also the magical aspect: a silence spell would really be in order. And making a lot of things far easier. Be it only to pass check points. I can only see (bad) gameplay reasons to not include one.

 

[blitzer84]

Hi Feliks,

 

First of all thank you for giving your time for modding.

Second, are the requests,

 

1. Sex lab apropos for male - male and male - creatures.

I don't think the mod author ever gonna make this happens despite many acts descriptions already available on the forum.

You can take one of the acts descriptions available from the forum and implemented them for the male - male/creatures add on.

 

2. Isle of Mara without sos, devious devices and estrus.

So this mod requires Dd for him, which consequently made it mandatory to use sos, ZaZ, Dd assets, integration, expansion and of course SL aroused.

A bit too much if all we need is just bondage gear for male.

Could you change the referring for those bondage gear directly into ZaZ, since ZaZ also has cuffs etc. And remove everything else unavailable in ZaZ.

I really don't wanna use SL aroused and those Dd mods, yet there are no other alike quest mods

 

Also, could you remove the usage for estrus since it's not made for male and clips badly with the pen*s.

As for sos, if it's not a requirement, we can change it with another body mod, like SAM.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thank you,

 

Blitz

[JDol]

The thing we're speaking of - saving your bacon in a random roll - is another situation. We have a problem here because, except by making the guards reasonably killable (a bad idea, it's likely destroying the whole point of them being there), we don't have a longer route the bluff can shortcut.

 

Well, I was actually considering it to be an actual speech check / intimidation / bribe, so my use of the word "roll" was mistaken.

 

I suspected a knockout system (like the one in Perkus or the alternatives you described) would be necessary anyway, so I suppose that, if there were any way for the victim in the sack to wake up and start squirming, that could trigger the autogreet? The "longer route" would be knocking the victim out right before going through a guarded place, and not taking too long. Still, the more we discuss it, the less convinced I am about the autogreet anyway, so we could leave it out for now.

 

You can forget this part as being problematic - there will probably be no point in the framework to bag people into cities, but there will be (with reasonable probability) mods using the feature. So it's okay to put this into a framework from a design perspective.

Yes, again going with the whole business being modular / playing nice with other mods, although I think some very basic questing functionality (prisoners to rescue in bandit camps, perhaps a follower getting kidnapped on sleep, etc. Just really barebones, repeatable quests) would be interesting as an optional file to accompany the framework itself. It would also serve as an example for other modders on how to implement the system.

 

 

Instead of making what will probably constant script checks for a second detection area, just disable sound detection if the victim is gagged. Someone knowing about script load should see this and decide.

 

That is an option, but I doubt it would actually be that resource intensive? Every time the NPC calls for help, simply check if the NPC is gagged, and if it is, reduce the alert range. It could be left with no audio alerts at all and it wouldn't affect things too badly – I was merely hoping to avoid illogical situations like the ones you can find in Defeat at the moment – a gagged NPC in a room and a dozen perfectly nonplussed NPCs literally three feet away and past an open door.

 

Kind of simplier to knock him out.

This feature is in Perkus Maximus, using blunt weapons, can be taken as is.

Sleep potions could be cool too. With the retro-pickpocketing for example.

 

 

Passing guards check points by knocking out the victim is also far more pertinent.

100% with you on this one, and I already had in my mind that a knockout would be necessary before tying a NPC up, and could be used on its own if there's no need to abduct anyone or keep the NPC down for a long time. A tied up NPC would not struggle or try to call for help while knocked out either, of course.

 

I'm pretty suspicious of a feature asking the player to babysit the victim for two days though. Especially given you need to be in the cell to have anything happen. Are you sure to know how to make it fun ?

 

At least on paper I do, yes.

 

The point is that the player wouldn't have to babysit at all, as struggle checks would not actually happen while the cell is not loaded. Still, I wouldn't want the system to be a "tie and forget".

 

The point here would be that you could leave a tied up NPC somewhere and just leave. Upon returning though, the scene would load, and there would be a chance of one restraint (maybe more) being removed, reflecting that the NPC managed to struggle free.

 

You could return to a screaming or fleeing NPC, which would force the player, not to babysit, but to be careful where the captives are left. If you leave them in Breezehome (which would be completely illogical) and you return to them shouting for help or running out the door, you would of course be arrested. It would make more sense, then (and add to the immersion if you ask me) to stick to a remote location (cabin in the woods, abandoned cave, etc.) while you have a prisoner.

 

I was also thinking, for flavour, that the idle animations played could change, be it semirandomly, on cell load, or to reflect struggle stages. It feels odd that a prisoner would remain in the same exact pose until freed, so I was thinking that you could return to find the prisoner in slightly different poses (hogtied on side to hogtied face down) or more different ones if done as a visual cue to struggle stages (from hogtie to lying face down, from lying face down to kneeling, etc, hinting that you should check on the restraints).

 

The idea, apart from the possibility of getting caught if the prisoner is left in an unsafe place, would be adding immersion by giving the player the idea that something has happened while they were away.

 

Again, rescue quest targets would not actually do any of this. They would still play struggle animations and sounds, but for purely aesthetic reasons, as their escaping or changing position might break the quest altogether.

 

Maybe moans and gag sounds should only be there for immersion and not impact gameplay.

Perhaps, although they would indeed be helpful for immersion, as it is unlikely that a captured bandit would just sit there and meekly look down.

 

There's also the magical aspect: a silence spell would really be in order.

 

Absolutely agreed. In this case though, and in that of the sleep poison you suggested earlier, I think it should be done seriously and in a balanced manner – not the instant cast, 0 magicka spells, or convenient dragon shouts, that you find in what are basically pose mods. The spell would have to be purchased and learned, it should cost considerable magicka (as it could be abused against strong creatures) and it should benefit from perks. Similarly, the poison should require relatively advanced ingredients and rely heavily on alchemy skill, etc.

 

That way, the player would actually have to tie the mechanic into his existing skillset, rather than just have a free-to-choose range of zero cost options.

 

By the way, as far as sleep potions and spells go...  How would you suggest stopping them from being potentially overpowered? Putting a strong boss to sleep with a spell might unbalance the game greatly. Level restrictions? Not working on aggroed targets? Wake on the first hit, maybe?

[Alploochra]

 

The thing we're speaking of - saving your bacon in a random roll - is another situation. We have a problem here because, except by making the guards reasonably killable (a bad idea, it's likely destroying the whole point of them being there), we don't have a longer route the bluff can shortcut.

 

Well, I was actually considering it to be an actual speech check / intimidation / bribe, so my use of the word "roll" was mistaken.

Still: speech checks in vanilla are shortcuts, here they are all-or-nothing cases.

It's really low on gameplay value because you're either always caught or always not caught.

If you're saying this in a "there's the sewer way AND you can always get past the gates once you've enough bluff skill" yes that's better.

 

 

 

I suspected a knockout system (like the one in Perkus or the alternatives you described) would be necessary anyway, so I suppose that, if there were any way for the victim in the sack to wake up and start squirming, that could trigger the autogreet? The "longer route" would be knocking the victim out right before going through a guarded place, and not taking too long. Still, the more we discuss it, the less convinced I am about the autogreet anyway, so we could leave it out for now.

 

Again: a randomly ticking bomb that totally fucks randomly your game has no gameplay value.

It's just frustrating.

 

In fact in gamedesign you're taught to not impose on the player RNG deaths or die-and-retry situations because they have no gaming value, outside of some situations that require some randomness to be fun (99% of the time: combats - the other 1% being optional lotteries).

 

 

 

Except in some specificaly designed games around them, that is.

Rogue-likes have random deaths because it's often part of their charm and gameplay value.

There are some die-and-retry games out there (Dark Soul) but from my gamedesigning school's pov they're pretty bad and frustrating in their concept, because they always take the lazy route by leaving NO way for the player to get through even with perfect skill (deadly enemy moves or deadly invisible traps you have literrally no way to know before they kill you).

 

Skyrim is neither, it's a solo save/load game around emergent roleplaying and gaming, and in fact all the mods touching this subject are trying to pull the save/load away - Death Alternatives, Defeat, ...

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, again going with the whole business being modular / playing nice with other mods, although I think some very basic questing functionality (prisoners to rescue in bandit camps, perhaps a follower getting kidnapped on sleep, etc. Just really barebones, repeatable quests) would be interesting as an optional file to accompany the framework itself. It would also serve as an example for other modders on how to implement the system.

Radiant quests are pertinent in a framework.

Though your examples here don't require the updated crime system at all. Some radiant stuff to bag people outside cities - like "take some bandit for us to do a blood eagle or two in this camp" or a "take a hostage in this civil war camp there" radiant quests.

In fact you can avoid a lot of the bag-searching checks by making the quest givers be in outside areas - like in the other side's camps for the civil war, or stendarrites for the bandits one.

 

This way you can make the city-only "get out of this city with your bagged victim" into "specific generic quests" for each of the five ones.

Something along "In Whiterun, you'll be given randomly one of those four escape routes for this exfiltration: through the sewers, through the stream when it goes through the walls, under the drawbridge, or the Companions wolf-route once you know it".

You can even add specific npcs that are forcegreeting you and checking your bags, that spawn once the quest starts, like "Investigative guard" and such. With hand made patrol routes so there's a thief game aspect.

 

 

The good part being that you can actually still have the random-forcegreet frameworked thing for hold guards that are outside the five cities (in the towns, villages and on the roads). Because in those cases if you are randomly getting chosen, you would actually have the choice to bluff, bribe, kill or flee the guards.

You'll get bounty (or not) but that's actually a game feature, and there's way to deal with it, or even play with it.

 

 

And by the way, if we're already making a "random search Sir, please shut yoru horse down and put your hands on the reins" feature, make them search for stolen loot too.

 

 

That is an option, but I doubt it would actually be that resource intensive?

Feliiiiiiks ?

 

 

 

I was merely hoping to avoid illogical situations like the ones you can find in Defeat at the moment – a gagged NPC in a room and a dozen perfectly nonplussed NPCs literally three feet away and past an open door.

Indoor areas aren't that big. Some suspension of disbelief may be needed.

 

Making having a gag on someone being a crime may emulate something interesting too, maybe we can try.

 

 

 

100% with you on this one, and I already had in my mind that a knockout would be necessary before tying a NPC up, and could be used on its own if there's no need to abduct anyone or keep the NPC down for a long time. A tied up NPC would not struggle or try to call for help while knocked out either, of course.

Yeah i thought so.

But then there's another gamedesign rift that comes into play: redundancy. If we can knock out people, and it's always better then ties&gag, there's no reason to have the less useful one in the first place - except maybe if there's some kind of imposed progression (like, you can only gag and tie the first times, or without perks) but i'm not sure it's meaningful here...

 

Maybe making them do separate but needed things is the good idea.

Knock out stuff is for the exfiltrating phase, ties and gags are for the sequestrating phase.

Without ties, the victim can escape / will escape on cell renewal.

Without gag, it can do the "call for the guards" thing awaken people can make when you get caught robbing/trespassing.

 

When you're in a sequestrated person cell they can start to struggle and you can some kind of warning, and you can act to get them quieter - strike them, intimidate them, persuade them, knock them out.

I'm not sure there's a gameplay value to have them escape if you're not around anyway, so this plays well.

it makes keeping kidnappees in a "big" populated area more dangerous - they will get the struggle checks when you're there in other rooms. That's scenaristically good. Recluse hidden cells are the best choices.

 

Going back to incentive: there should be a gain from hiding your victim long enough.

I think there a "hunt for the missing person" feature would be really cool - if you can hide him until the timer runs out, the spawned guards and forcegreets would become a lot less numerous.

 

 

Of course someone that is not binded and gagged will make escape rolls (and here i'm speaking of real rolls) when you're not there and you can get bounties.

 

And while i'm thinking of it: a tied person should start to die from thirst on the third day if you don't do anything.

 

 

 

At least on paper I do, yes.

 

The point is that the player wouldn't have to babysit at all, as struggle checks would not actually happen while the cell is not loaded. Still, I wouldn't want the system to be a "tie and forget".

 

The point here would be that you could leave a tied up NPC somewhere and just leave. Upon returning though, the scene would load, and there would be a chance of one restraint (maybe more) being removed, reflecting that the NPC managed to struggle free.

Exploitable: you just don't go back to the cell.

 

You could return to a screaming or fleeing NPC, which would force the player, not to babysit, but to be careful where the captives are left. If you leave them in Breezehome (which would be completely illogical) and you return to them shouting for help or running out the door, you would of course be arrested. It would make more sense, then (and add to the immersion if you ask me) to stick to a remote location (cabin in the woods, abandoned cave, etc.) while you have a prisoner.

 

What's the point in keeping them in a remote location ?

You've already escaped the guards. And you don't get anything from having gagged persons stored in your mountain shed. Kidnapping people for kidnapping them is quickly boring.

Also, a fleeing person is nearly uncatchable and will go back to the guards, remote location or not. And you'll be fucked, for nothing.

 

 

 

Perhaps, although they would indeed be helpful for immersion, as it is unlikely that a captured bandit would just sit there and meekly look down.

 

In fact we should make this a feature.

When heavily made quiet (see above), they don't do a thing.

The less quiet points are left, the more they make noises and movements.

There, both immersion and gameplay.

 

 

The quiet points thing is actually something a was thinking for the Aura framework (a social/moral gameplay framework i'm working on with Feliks which actually would manage coercion, manipulation and enslavement, and you can get Obedience points by doing the aformentioned actions) and bridging the two would be incredibly easy so i'm really all for it.

 

 

Absolutely agreed. In this case though, and in that of the sleep poison you suggested earlier, I think it should be done seriously and in a balanced manner – not the instant cast, 0 magicka spells, or convenient dragon shouts, that you find in what are basically pose mods.

 

Ewwwh, pose mods.

 

Na of course not, potions need ingredients, money, and/or skills and/or perk.

I think the silence spells should have a drain or something like that. Something to have your resources momentarily taken away (you'll probably be a mage or a nightblade if you use the spells).

Making them follow the illusion spells rules would also be the perfect thing (so you need stronger versions and perks to silence stronger npcs).

Maybe a long-term paralysis restoration spell for having the victim not struggle when in the sack too ? (silencing isn't subduing).

 

They need to cost and/or have skill needs because they're letting you do a quicker route when abducting city people (cf earlier conversation).

 

 

By the way, as far as sleep potions and spells go...  How would you suggest stopping them from being potentially overpowered? Putting a strong boss to sleep with a spell might unbalance the game greatly. Level restrictions? Not working on aggroed targets? Wake on the first hit, maybe?

 

Only working on subdued npcs (Tied or knocked out and perhaps sleeping too. Surrendered ones if i can make this part work. Oh yeah, FRIENDLY ones too).

Combat spells not in this framework's reach.

Those things are just here to get past guards. Or make people not struggle when stored in case of the sleep potion.

 

Yeah actually they should not be called "Silence" and "Sleep", but something more specific (and cooler) like "Dream Prison" and "Lockjaw".

 

I was thinking or reverse-pickpocketing the sleep potion because, well, it would be the pickpocket-and-alchemist variant of the blackjack (whick is sneak only), maybe it's too strong. Or not, if it has the same requirements than the blackjack.

The blackjack needs to be both undetected and the target not wearing a helm as is in Perkus. Locking it behind skills should also be a thing.

Chloroforming awakened people, when undetected, sounds good - working on helmed people too and making them under the potion no-sound-detection effect immediately (so better than the blackjack but costing resources every time)

 

In the perk overhaul i'd make a dedicated perk for it, because it's a dangerous substance hard to administer safely for you and the victim and whatnot (not something this mod has to take care of).

 

[monsta88]

Well, it is a way too long list already, but I add one to it anyway.

 

Summary: More immersive restraint system.

 

- There should be restraints of each material (steel, dwemer, daedric, etc).

- New ways to get free instead of the not-so-cool "finding keys" method

- Upgraded lock-picking minigame

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/42744-ideadesign-more-immersive-restraints-system/

 

Thanks for offering to take on requests. There are some more ideas in my sig, but the above one would be the best.

 

 

[everforever]

 

You seem to have enough here to keep you going until the sun freezes, so I can't in good conscience request a mod. But I wonder if I can get your opinion on the feasibility of a mod. I had this notion of an add-on mod for BeeingFemale and Apropos that reads the player's status from BeeingFemale and randomly or at set intervals outputs messages through Apropos. If you use Apropos, I'm talking about little immersive messages like the post-sex messages you get. Ideally I'd want messages for the various stages of the menstrual cycle, the stages of pregnancy, labor and birth, and the post-birth replenishment stage.

 

I don't know anything about modding, much less scripting, so I don't know if such a thing would even be possible. What do you think? If it is something an experienced modder could knock out the framework for in a few minutes, leaving the message-writing part to me, perhaps I'd change my mind about making a request.

 

I'm going to say it would be doable. Now, I honestly haven't played with Beeing Female (It's funny, I know CANS is useful but I don't play a single mod that would benefit from it) so I don't have the slightest idea how it tracks that, or how Apropos (haven't used that in a looong time) picks up events but I'm sure it would be doable.

 

Sexlab True Crime.

 

(Like Lovers True Crime)

In Lovers True Crime, you can get raped in a prison by a male horny prisoner. No mod is actually doing this, and I fear even if a mod has such content, it requires ZaZ or Devious Devices which are not desired by everyone.

 

Thanks for clarifying, cause that was gonna be my first question. To be honest though if I make a mod involving prisons it's gonna use ZAZ almost guaranteed. Sorry.

 

 

could you possibly create a spell or something that could be used in "SexLabUtil1"

that has these effects:

 

dismiss follower

 

Increase arousal

 

change to a consensual sex using only missionary animations

 

change to consensual sex using only handjob animations

 

change to consensual sex using only cowgirl animations

 

make a hostile NPC in a friendly NPC and vice versa

 

and if the NPC is being raped by a bandit

the NPC had become a bandit from the same faction.

 

 

I don't think I understand here, spells to do these things? I'm sure there are easier ways to dismiss a follower, and I have no idea how the other ones would work in the form of a spell.

 

 

okay, forget the spell

the idea was to create a mod that added effects during or after sex

for example:

 

adding an option in 0% to 100% of some of these effects happen

 

 

during aggressive sex change to some random consensual sex animation

 

if the player or some NPC raping his follower

will dismiss your follower

 

 

and if the NPC is being raped by a bandit

and if during of aggressive sex animation change to some random consensual sex animation

after sex

the NPC had become a bandit from the same faction.

 

 

and you could create follower support for

 

Death Alternative - Your Money or Your Life

 

I know this mod has follower support but not for this part

 

when the player is defeated by a bandit

the player fall unconscious

and wake up somewhere without his armor, weapons and coins

 

and the player would have to go back to the bandit who beat him to recover your stuff

 

but the follower continues with his armor and weapons even being defeated

 

it is possible to do this with the follower

 

when the player and his followers are defeated the bandit steals the weapons and armor of the player and his follower

 

 

 

and it would be possible to do this with Devious Devices?

 

no matter what kind of setting you make

 

Male Player and Male NPCs will not use Belts and Bra.

 

female rappers will use only cowgirl or standing or oral handjob animations in Males

 

 

if any NPC put some device in the player

will put in the follower too.

[atwahr]

Some easy way to disable the functions etc for adult mods.

I have many times had the issue if creating two profiles in MO, NSFW for when i'm alone, and another for when I'm not. However i then run into a lot of animation problems, even when running the FNIS Generator issues arise. I'm thinking like a button accessed through MCM which scans for adult mods and disables all functions that can be disabled without breaking the game.

[SexDwarf2250]

 

 

I was actually voicing my own concepts and ideas, so the range of your concept is not relevant to me, and I was well aware of weregeld in germanic law. I don't care about prisons. Or are you saying it's outside of Feliks' range of ideas we can discuss here?

 

So you hop in a discussion between two people, change the subject, then whine aggressively (and write insults you edit out) when toldin a neutral stance they were not speaking of this.

 

Grow up.

 

If you want a private discussion, go to private messages or your own thread. Your tone was hardly neutral, it was condescending, negative and rude. Maybe you should man up and stop crying about others being impolite when you are, too.

 

 

 

As far as feasibility, there are already mods that creatively improve guard and witness behaviour in different ways, even masks and anonymity systems, for vanilla crime gameplay. Your argument that these things are too difficult holds no water.

Which are all line of sight based.

 

No shit? The difference is that they don't stop there. Maybe you should read the posts you reply to.

 

 

 

Incidentally, your assumption that not being caught red-handed at the moment you did the crime meant that in old times you had nothing to fear from the guards or by way of court conviction is also incorrect.

1- No, it's not an assumption.

2- The cases I clearly spoke of earlier are not "red handed catch". That's the point. Someone has to report you in scandinavian viking era. They don't need to be actual witness that's all, they can do it on assumption or be moral witness, and in every cases i know of, are kin to the victim. And that's another Thing entirely (yeah it's a historical pune) to include that ingame. You're also not even a suspect before your culpability has been proven.

3- Being near a corpse with a bloody weapon doesn't make you an obvious murderer. It makes you an obvious winner in a fight. That's not legally a crime (except if the dead body has real obvious wounds indicating it has been murdered by surprise AND noone new of your grievance against him/you've been caught hiding the body/you've not reported to one of the three first person or stead door you've encountered that you killed the man; or if he's kin - as mentionned earlier).

Adding some lines to npcs that are triggered by the "oh my, a body !" vanilla reaction they have can actually really simply roleplay that.

4- There are no guards in scandinavian or proto-germanic society. There are guards in Skyrim because of the civil war and actually having a playable crime system in which you can play a burglar (like in other TES games).

5- Any case of "caught at the moment you did it" (litterally) fall under the bounty detection system.

 

 

Not that your points would matter if they were even all correct, because Skyrim isn't actually Scandinavia.

[Ryzaki009]

I have checked everywhere and I've never found a simple rape mod. You either have to be defeated, surrender or if you manage you can actually rape the attacker. Complicated stuff.

 

I would like a simple mod about the PC going to a random NPC requesting, more like demanding sex. The NPC will deny and then there would be 2 options for the PC to either rape the NPC or let him/her go. Rape animations will obviously play, not consensual ones. And that would be it, no more that that to keep it simple. Well, after the rape the NPC would give nasty remarks to the player and get mad for a while, but revert back to normal in a few days. I don't use Devious Devices or anything like that so I would prefer for this to be standalone.

 

Sex chat already gives consensual sex and its a great simple mode and also there are too many mods about the PC getting raped especially women (I don't know if it happens to male PCs). How about giving that power to the Dragonborn for once, male and female. I don't know anything about modding, animations, etc. so I'm just putting the idea out there if someone want to make this really simple mod.

 

(I had requested this mod already, but sadly no one has done it) =(

 

This feature is actually a part of sexlab submit. Just turn off the combat rape and enable the dialogue. I used to use it with sexlab defeat for that very purpose.

 

[WaxenFigure]

Some easy way to disable the functions etc for adult mods.

I have many times had the issue if creating two profiles in MO, NSFW for when i'm alone, and another for when I'm not. However i then run into a lot of animation problems, even when running the FNIS Generator issues arise. I'm thinking like a button accessed through MCM which scans for adult mods and disables all functions that can be disabled without breaking the game.

A button to press which disables all adult mods is a fantasy that will never happen.

 

However:

 

Two copies of the game, make sure your MO folder is under the Skyrim folder so you can have completely separate sets of profiles. Build the SFW version and copy the whole Skyrim folder to SkyrimAdult. Create a BAT file that renames Skyrim to SkyrimSFW and SkyrimAdult to Skyrim and of course a second BAT file that renames them back to make it easy to switch between them.

 

Switch to the adult version and add your adult mods. Be sure to play the SFW version more than just a little or the people you are trying to fool will figure out pretty quickly that you aren't advancing very fast despite spending countless hours playing.

[xenic]

I'm looking for something I haven't seen yet. I'm wanting a Master or Mistress (Mistress preferred) that will reside in your home. At first they will talk down to you but as you do quests for them, bring them things, etc, they will be start being a little nicer. Some of the things may be to clean the house, go to the market, go to other cities, sexual stuff, depraved things. Depending on their mood, they may add devious devices to you or remove ones they already added.

 

In a couple of mods, they reference your "Mistress" or "Master" but I didn't have one so I thought "Huh, I need one at my home.

 

It would be cool if you could use the Ninghiem race for the Master and Succubus for the Mistress. Or something other than vanilla. Or if somehow Lydia would be your Mistress. That could get a little tricky though.

 

That's the idea anyway. When I play, it's with the idea that my character is either young or the last person you'd expect to be dragonborn. So the Mistress is taking most of the credit for being the hero. Hope it sounds interesting enough to make. 

[deviant51]

I'm looking for something I haven't seen yet. I'm wanting a Master or Mistress (Mistress preferred) that will reside in your home. At first they will talk down to you but as you do quests for them, bring them things, etc, they will be start being a little nicer. Some of the things may be to clean the house, go to the market, go to other cities, sexual stuff, depraved things. Depending on their mood, they may add devious devices to you or remove ones they already added.

 

In a couple of mods, they reference your "Mistress" or "Master" but I didn't have one so I thought "Huh, I need one at my home.

 

It would be cool if you could use the Ninghiem race for the Master and Succubus for the Mistress. Or something other than vanilla. Or if somehow Lydia would be your Mistress. That could get a little tricky though.

 

That's the idea anyway. When I play, it's with the idea that my character is either young or the last person you'd expect to be dragonborn. So the Mistress is taking most of the credit for being the hero. Hope it sounds interesting enough to make. 

 

I like the Lydia idea

[Vuulgar]

So...whats the winning idea?