Paid Modding is gone... or is it?

[nooblet123]

They probably canceled it not because of the community backlash, but because they only made $10 thousand and lost $1 million in 3 days.

[rylasasin]

Yeah. It's a great victory that instead of fixing a flawed first-of-its-kind system the internet curb-stomped it to death instead of pushing to fix it.

 

The problem was that it was a "solution" to a "problem" that did not need to be fixed in the first place and the solution wasn't really fixable at all.

[guk]

You have people saying bullshit like this:

wat.jpg

The immaturity in the community has been astounding.

Asking for people to get officially banned just sounds moronic to me. Must have been a child who wrote that.

 

But i also emotionally felt the "traitor" part. I'll stay honest about that.

We helped authors to grow big for years, improve their mods with all kinds of contributions, then suddenly it's bye-bye and they run off to grab dollars made from community cooperation and fame.

Perhaps not everyone has the same background, but if you maybe once were fan of an underground rockband or football club, then they suddenly turn commercial, that was a very similar experience.

 

 

PS.: Oh just read your following post. Well you're at least 1 day too late to rekindle the flame war.

I'm not starting this discussion over. Read the old thread for the pro/contra arguments.

[LaEspada]

The weird thing is, when you think about it. If SkyUI had gone on sale, Bethesda would had literally profited from having done a crappy menu system. SkyUI was born out of the fact that the game's menu system was poorly implemented. 

 

Actually, the menu system is great for consoles with controls with joysticks, but for a PC game with a mouse? No it's not.

 

Also, SkyUI wasn't going to be behind a pay-wall. The current version that is available was going to stay free forever on Nexus. It's the "final" version.

 

The version that was going to be released for profit was only going to have a few bug fixes and crafting menu UI. Which to be honest I would pay for since SkyUI is awesome.

 

Everyone's fear for SkyUI going to be a paid for mod was that it would break mods that required the MCM menu, however, the MCM menu has been left as it was and it wouldn't break any mods just for being updated to version 5.0 or something.

[Aydoo]

 

You have people saying bullshit like this:

wat.jpg

The immaturity in the community has been astounding.

Asking for people to get officially banned just sounds moronic to me. Must have been a child who wrote that.

 

But i also emotionally felt the "traitor" part. I'll stay honest about that.

We helped authors to grow big for years, improve their mods with all kinds of contributions, then suddenly it's bye-bye and they run off to grab dollars made from community cooperation and fame.

Perhaps not everyone has the same background, but if you maybe once were fan of an underground rockband or football club, then they suddenly turn commercial, that was a very similar experience.

 

 

PS.: Oh just read your following post. Well you're at least 1 day too late to rekindle the flame war.

I'm not starting this discussion over. Read the old thread for the pro/contra arguments.

 

 

If you think certain modders are traitors then feel free to not use their mods. This includes anything contributed by Arthmoor (Unofficial patches/SKYUI), Expired (Racemenu etc), the Silverlight crew (SKSE), and various others that supported, tried to sell, or tried to make the transition easier. By using their "free mods" you are still supporting them and their ideals.

 

Otherwise you are just a hypocrite.

[DoctaSax]

If Beth and Valve would of done this the proper way, it wouldn't have gone so viral as it did. A poll and survey in advance would of helped. One done on Steam, Nexus and what ever other community they want with their registered members.

 

They chose to creep up from behind and well, this is what happened.

 

The suddenness, the fact it's even the workshop, some of those mods being entirely shit too, most of all the complete lack of information or PR handling of it so that had to be feeding time at the zoo... plenty of blame to the companies involved, yeah.

 

But when we got blacklists of 'traitor' modders floating around, a two-bit protest mod having a good chance to top out Nexus's file of the month, not to mention these rumours of threats and DDOS attacks I hear, that's on 'us' no doubt. Blaming Beth and/or Valve for stuff they haven't done but is only in our heads as a worst-case scenario, is on us too.

 

There were some shameful mods on there. But you know, if done entirely differently, people or teams putting up a certain quality of mods, perhaps providing a free alternative or a pay-as-you-want starting at 0, with all permissions stuff entirely sorted out etc etc. Not so evil. I could accept it as something that's... still not for me, but I'd accept it existing, and it wouldn't be the end of times. I want it to be acceptable for a modder to at least say, "I'd like to be allowed to do that, under such & so circumstances" without getting their head ripped off. A respected modder considering it deserves a chance to be heard at least.

 

Another POV I've heard is "what are modders who refuse their free-to-use work to be used for paid mods really about - free to use or not free to use", pointing at at the great deal of open-source software freely made by volunteers that is used commercially. Stuff the entire internet runs on - what makes  modders so special then? Interesting viewpoint, if a bit unsettling for me. We tend to like a certain amount of control, don't we - no permission for this or that, "I'd like to be asked before you use it", guilty as charged btw. Does the open flow of ideas and resources that 'free modding' supposedly stands for stem from the 'free from pay' bit or the 'free to use' bit? How free has our modding been lately, in that regard? I'm like, dude, stop because my head is spinning. People need to be able to say those things though; it's uncomfortable but healthy.

 

On the few established modders who went along with this thing... Gopher made that point well enough, I guess. I'm all raged out but if people still wanna pour on the hate on those saps, they can do that someplace else. You gotta stop at some point anyway; now is imo the best time for it.

[guk]

If you think certain modders are traitors then feel free to not use their mods. This includes anything contributed by Arthmoor (Unofficial patches/SKYUI), Expired (Racemenu etc), the Silverlight crew (SKSE), and various others that supported, tried to sell, or tried to make the transition easier. By using their "free mods" you are still supporting them and their ideals.

 

Otherwise you are just a hypocrite.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/25180-unofficial-bodyslide-2outfit-studio-tutorials/?p=1156510

 

Just go ahead with the insults.

[pantherlux]

someone really should make a mod of this... the victory over gabe of greed mcvalve or some sort...

songs to sing and dance, parades in every major city, kids knocking on doors "gimme sweets or get the pay wall!"

 

and for the "i want the pay mods back" ppl: a shirt "i paid the mod and all i got was this lousy t-shirt!"

sorry, just happy to see this is over for now

[cornbreadtm]

Yeah. It's a great victory that instead of fixing a flawed first-of-its-kind system the internet curb-stomped it to death instead of pushing to fix it.

 

It had to be done. If they plan to implement this they can't do it after everyone is already using everyone else resources. Be it even unseeble resources like playtesters. To visible ones like ENB, Racemenu Character, HD texture, SMIM furniture, Realistic lighting overhaul lighting, etc. Screenshots. And that's the small stuff.

 

A lot of people are saying this was a bad thing and that people just want free mods. But it's a lot bigger than that. The 25% to modders was unreasonable. And a lot of the modders who sold mods keep saying that it may have changed in the future. But they sound like victims of domestic violence.

 

Personally I'm an Artist professionally. I spend a lot of time trying to gauge my work and deciding if the pay is okay or unreasonable. The payment system for the paid mods was 100% unacceptable. Their was 0 chance that you could make a living off of it like the originally claimed. They redacted that statement almost immediately. Ignoring the fact that was the way they fraised it to the involved modders.

 

If I could mod for a living, I would do it. But like all arts you got to go to court over it A LOT to get livable payment arrangements and you can get livable payment arrangements. But not if you just belly over and accept the unacceptable arrangement that you're given.

[jacques00]

If Bethesda hadn't done this, there wouldn't have been a civil war in the first place. That's what I meant by saying they broke the community.

 

There was never a civil war to begin with so stop labeling it as such. There is no fight. There is no victory. There were no sides beside those who were watching on the sidelines and those who made the wrong decisions. The only victims here are those who were caught in the crossfire and lost useable money out of it and those whose reputation are scarred due to misdirected, misinformed presumptions by the public.

 

If you honestly thought that the entire modding community, spanning past LoverLab, spanning past Nexus, spanning past Skyrim and Fallout, etc., all revolved around the Steam Workshop, then you have a very, very limited view of the modding community. The modding community is vast, diverse, and tightly knit. If you thought Valve and Bethesda intentionally created this rift between those who wanted to take agency in their life to those who wanted to tow a party line, then you have projected your intentions onto those you don't know. Valve and Bethesda made a stupid marketing campaign and owned up to it like they should.

 

But you created this divide with your own narrative, own up to it.

[Alva]

 

<snip>

 

The problem wasn't being paid for mods. The problem was that it wasn't REGULATED, and mods could easily be stolen. The problem was that the cut was TOO small. The problem was that the community was already to established and mods relied on too much of OTHER people's work to effectively sell.

 

Every modder, who makes original assets, deserves to be paid something, because they are doing a service, and providing a new product. Whether you view modding as a hobby or an entry into the development world doesn't matter.

 

 

The problem was indeed paid mods, especially because it was a part of the distribution channel, which leads to countless other issues - least of all not the DRM issues (due to piracy becoming a issue), legal issues between customer-developer etc.

 

Modding communities have existed for many a years and most in them have until now, been seen as fan to fan services because of the "love" of a game. It might be a nostalgic view now a days for many youngsters - but you do not just yank something like that away over night.

 

If you want money for your original assets, you are very welcome to put it up for sale/donation somewhere on your own sales-channel and see if you can make money of your original assets. But expect it to be pirated because your original assets might not be as important as you think when it's only just a mod for a game.

There might be some mods which seems like they cannot be left out of a game - but then you truly overestimate your value. Even something as unofficial patches can have multiple versions if it came to competition between paid or non-paid. (Likely not now for Skyrim; that game would just die - but for the next game people would know)

 

Wanting payment to be integrated directly into the distribution platform, thus affecting everybody else, it's an entirely different discussion. Because then it wouldn't be long before there weren't free mods any more and as we've seen in Sims - quality suffers. Regardless of what PR spin Bethesda is trying to put on it now.  Their goal isn't free modding for now and always - it's maximizing profits and free money is good money.

 

Mark my words - this battle might be won (from our point of view) - but the war will be resumed when this debacle is forgotten in a game or two. Most likely Bethesda is hoping other games will jump the wagon - and they will - thus allowing communities to forget that modding was once free (donation) fan driven work and then they'll be right back to sneak it in again.

[BoozeJunky]

From the way it was implemented, it was pretty clear that this was little more than a cash grab by Bethesda and Valve, and I'm glad to see it gone. While I would like to see modders get compensated for their work if they choose, once you introduce monetary transactions into the system, it becomes a huge clusterfuck minefield of intellectual property rights fighting and overly-restrictive permissions... none of which I think Valve is truly ready to field, and the modders themselves certainly cannot afford to take action on themselves. Especially this late in the game where there is so much content already out and available, ready to be stolen. Maybe if they can fix the system, and have it already in place for the GECK/CK for the next game - so that it's already in place... but even that will be a challenge.

 

In the mean time, a more general "donation" button is far more appropriate - allowing users to give what they want directly to a modder - without it actually representing a product (that may or may not be stolen in whole or in part), and let Valve/Bethesda still get a % cut of donations. Then allow the community to police the products with a report function, so those who are the most egregious with their use of stolen content may end up having their donations halted or account banned.

[cornbreadtm]

 

If you think certain modders are traitors then feel free to not use their mods. This includes anything contributed by Arthmoor (Unofficial patches/SKYUI), Expired (Racemenu etc), the Silverlight crew (SKSE), and various others that supported, tried to sell, or tried to make the transition easier. By using their "free mods" you are still supporting them and their ideals.

 

Otherwise you are just a hypocrite.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/25180-unofficial-bodyslide-2outfit-studio-tutorials/?p=1156510

 

Just go ahead with the insults.

 

Seriously dude...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npU_XeL6YDs

 

There were a couple of assholes (We all know who it is) but nobody betrayed anybody. Someone had to try out the paid mod system to know that it sucked. Best it be people we all know. Now as a community we can think about what went wrong and try to handle this right next time. But we can't if people start throwing each other under the bus for trying to support themselves off of their work.

 

[Jexsam]

Remain vigilant.

 

The massive response this got leaves me hopeful that Bethesda will think twice about DRM'd mods (if they ever thought of them before) but it isn't an all-clear. The real danger is still looming. We've simply ensured they'll think twice before poking this hornets' nest again.

[maybenexttime]

Apparently though I hear that Gabe Newman still wants to implement paid mods. So I honestly feel like this isn't the last we heard from Valve and Steam on this matter.

 

https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop/u/10646765

[guk]

Bethesda will think twice about DRM'd mods (if they ever thought of them before) but it isn't an all-clear.

Well if they didn't think about DRM-lock on mods before, they certainly do now

edit: things like SkyUI 5.0 getting insta-pirated was proof to them that they'd need it.

 

 

And i usually don't read any of the news threads on Nexus, but it was in fact Dark0ne who first had the concerns that they could introduce that.

At least in this context, as the talk about "paying for mods" has been floating around for a while.

[Sacremas]

Everyone who paid for mods got refunded allright... In steam wallet money. Yeah because there's so many great things to spend that money on. Bethesda gave money back, the mod authors who sold mods lost the money the earned, but Valve kept their cut.

[z4m0lx3s]

 

People who bitched and whined about Nexus, but still use it. People who bitched and whined about people making money on their ORIGINAL assets, and will still use them. How many are you going to keep crucifying these mod makers, but stop using SKYUI all together? You guys going to crucify Expired and stop using Racemenu because he put up a mod on the workshop for sale? What about the other authors who were trying to sell their models?

 

Lets take this further. What about amateur artists who ask for commisions? Are we going to rally against them for seeking compensation for their hobby? I saw tons of rhetoric about "Well if you want a job doing this why don't you go work for a game company!?" or that "Modding is a hobby!"

Someone used the whittler analogy and people were like, "but its a physical product?!" So are digital artists not allowed to be paid for their work?

 

There are so many "but.."s going around its starting to smell like farts.

 

The problem wasn't being paid for mods. The problem was that it wasn't REGULATED, and mods could easily be stolen. The problem was that the cut was TOO small. The problem was that the community was already to established and mods relied on too much of OTHER people's work to effectively sell.

 

Every modder, who makes original assets, deserves to be paid something, because they are doing a service, and providing a new product. Whether you view modding as a hobby or an entry into the development world doesn't matter.

 

 

Ok, here is what bothered me, particularly about SkyUI. At first it filled a niche, and because it was better than most similar mods, it became the most popular. Development of hundreds other mods became dependent on in, including our Sexlab and pretty much all of its relatives (Zaz, devious, etc, you know the list better than I do). How much extra work would have to be invested in removing the SkyUI dependency from Sexlab alone?

 

Now there are two issues I'd like to address. First, SkyUI would have NEVER become as popular if it had started as a paid mod. I certainly would never buy it, and I am certain most other gamers feel the same way. So what really internet upsets me is that the SkyUI creator pretty much pulled a bait and switch. In most places that is at least immoral.

 

Second, imagine if the author had decided that SkyUI was doing to be hidden/deleted off the Nexus, and the only version available was the paid Steam one. ALL that work other modders invested into their creations was suddenly useless. I don't know about you, but in my line of work if any of our suppliers required our customers directly to pay extra in order to use our product, we'd dump that supplier in a heartbeat. Luckily this wasn't going to happen, but it was a possibility.

 

Lastly, how is SkyUI worth $10? Skyrim cost $60 on release. Did they really think one mod, albeit an important one, is worth a SIXTH of the entire game? Even if that price were reasonable, the ONLY basis is the number of users and mods requiring SkyUI. Which would have never been there in the first place if the author hadn't pulled a bait and switch, going from free to paid.

 

The above touches on your other points. Yes, artists, content creators, modders should be compensated fairly. But they should be upfront about it, and make sure their users are aware of the costs at the start, not after hundreds of thousands of users downloaded your work already and helped you make a name for yourself.

[jacques00]

There were some shameful mods on there. But you know, if done entirely differently, people or teams putting up a certain quality of mods, perhaps providing a free alternative or a pay-as-you-want starting at 0, with all permissions stuff entirely sorted out etc etc. Not so evil. I could accept it as something that's... still not for me, but I'd accept it existing, and it wouldn't be the end of times. I want it to be acceptable for a modder to at least say, "I'd like to be allowed to do that, under such & so circumstances" without getting their head ripped off. A respected modder considering it deserves a chance to be heard at least.

 

What Valve should have done was to set up a mod-making contest with cash prizes and hold it for a month or two. The mods would be judged by representatives from Valve, Bethesda, and representative of major modding communities. The winning mods would be promoted and sold in their new workshop-store setup. This would not only help with the PR and company-community ties, but it would bolster original content and give a positive face to paid-mods. The mod authors wouldn't be mislabeled as sell-outs because they are merely participating in a contest and anyone could be involved in the contest submissions. After the contest ends and the Steam's paid-mod system picks up, there will be dedicated mod testers who judge and approve mods for the workshop store, choosing the mods that meet a list of standards set by all parties, with particular concerns to shared/copyrighted assets.

 

Setting the option to pay for a mod is always optional on the author's behest. At least, that was the intent, until everyone and their dog decided that having a choice to was the equivalent of an evil dictatorship.

 

[BoozeJunky]

Remain vigilant.

 

The massive response this got leaves me hopeful that Bethesda will think twice about DRM'd mods (if they ever thought of them before) but it isn't an all-clear. The real danger is still looming. We've simply ensured they'll think twice before poking this hornets' nest again.

 

How would DRM'd mods even work? You could only really protect the ESM/ESP. The sound, models, textures... all of that can be ripped and reimplemented quite easily. If people can rip content from DRM'd games and put them into Skyrim/Fallout, then what's to stop me or anybody else from going into a mod and gutting it and reintroducing it in a new mod? And for that matter, how would that even work with FNVEdit/TESedit? Mod authors don't always clean their mods, and even when they are clean, being disparate independent works means you're GOING to run into conflicts eventually. Will you even be able to clean a DRM'd mod? Would I be able to go into the GECK/CK and move a conflicting door? Would I be able to edit an existing asset/script/whatever to suit my game without filling my load order up with a shit-ton of mods made for mods?

[Aydoo]

 

 

People who bitched and whined about Nexus, but still use it. People who bitched and whined about people making money on their ORIGINAL assets, and will still use them. How many are you going to keep crucifying these mod makers, but stop using SKYUI all together? You guys going to crucify Expired and stop using Racemenu because he put up a mod on the workshop for sale? What about the other authors who were trying to sell their models?

 

Lets take this further. What about amateur artists who ask for commisions? Are we going to rally against them for seeking compensation for their hobby? I saw tons of rhetoric about "Well if you want a job doing this why don't you go work for a game company!?" or that "Modding is a hobby!"

Someone used the whittler analogy and people were like, "but its a physical product?!" So are digital artists not allowed to be paid for their work?

 

There are so many "but.."s going around its starting to smell like farts.

 

The problem wasn't being paid for mods. The problem was that it wasn't REGULATED, and mods could easily be stolen. The problem was that the cut was TOO small. The problem was that the community was already to established and mods relied on too much of OTHER people's work to effectively sell.

 

Every modder, who makes original assets, deserves to be paid something, because they are doing a service, and providing a new product. Whether you view modding as a hobby or an entry into the development world doesn't matter.

 

 

Ok, here is what bothered me, particularly about SkyUI. At first it filled a niche, and because it was better than most similar mods, it became the most popular. Development of hundreds other mods became dependent on in, including our Sexlab and pretty much all of its relatives (Zaz, devious, etc, you know the list better than I do). How much extra work would have to be invested in removing the SkyUI dependency from Sexlab alone?

 

Now there are two issues I'd like to address. First, SkyUI would have NEVER become as popular if it had started as a paid mod. I certainly would never buy it, and I am certain most other gamers feel the same way. So what really internet upsets me is that the SkyUI creator pretty much pulled a bait and switch. In most places that is at least immoral.

 

Second, imagine if the author had decided that SkyUI was doing to be hidden/deleted off the Nexus, and the only version available was the paid Steam one. ALL that work other modders invested into their creations was suddenly useless. I don't know about you, but in my line of work if any of our suppliers required our customers directly to pay extra in order to use our product, we'd dump that supplier in a heartbeat. Luckily this wasn't going to happen, but it was a possibility.

 

Lastly, how is SkyUI worth $10? Skyrim cost $60 on release. Did they really think one mod, albeit an important one, is worth a SIXTH of the entire game? Even if that price were reasonable, the ONLY basis is the number of users and mods requiring SkyUI. Which would have never been there in the first place if the author hadn't pulled a bait and switch, going from free to paid.

 

The above touches on your other points. Yes, artists, content creators, modders should be compensated fairly. But they should be upfront about it, and make sure their users are aware of the costs at the start, not after hundreds of thousands of users downloaded your work already and helped you make a name for yourself.

 

 

Thanks for further elaborating on what I said.  I agree with your last sentence as well, but it wasn't POSSIBLE until now, due to it being illegal.

 

People need to understand, that as horrible as the workshop was, as horrible as it became, and as horrible as it will continue to be, it was the only LEGAL way to make money on making anything for Skyrim. Donations are technically according to their ToS not legal, same as having a Patreon. Bethesda has just looked the other way all this time. If they wanted they could shut the entire community down by changing their ToS to state that you have no right to modify ANY of their assets completely, and they legally could. Modding is only "free" and possible because Bethesda allows it.

[Nepro]

It is obvious Bethseda and Valve will try to impose paid mods from the every start when a new Fallout 4 or TES VI will come out. And it will probably work if they do it from the very start. After that paid mod crap Bathseda pulled off I pledge I won't buy any game they release in future. The damage has been done.

[TheOzoneHole]

 

If Beth and Valve would of done this the proper way, it wouldn't have gone so viral as it did. A poll and survey in advance would of helped. One done on Steam, Nexus and what ever other community they want with their registered members.

 

They chose to creep up from behind and well, this is what happened.

 

The suddenness, the fact it's even the workshop, some of those mods being entirely shit too, most of all the complete lack of information or PR handling of it so that had to be feeding time at the zoo... plenty of blame to the companies involved, yeah.

 

But when we got blacklists of 'traitor' modders floating around, a two-bit protest mod having a good chance to top out Nexus's file of the month, not to mention these rumours of threats and DDOS attacks I hear, that's on 'us' no doubt. Blaming Beth and/or Valve for stuff they haven't done but is only in our heads as a worst-case scenario, is on us too.

 

There were some shameful mods on there. But you know, if done entirely differently, people or teams putting up a certain quality of mods, perhaps providing a free alternative or a pay-as-you-want starting at 0, with all permissions stuff entirely sorted out etc etc. Not so evil. I could accept it as something that's... still not for me, but I'd accept it existing, and it wouldn't be the end of times. I want it to be acceptable for a modder to at least say, "I'd like to be allowed to do that, under such & so circumstances" without getting their head ripped off. A respected modder considering it deserves a chance to be heard at least.

 

Another POV I've heard is "what are modders who refuse their free-to-use work to be used for paid mods really about - free to use or not free to use", pointing at at the great deal of open-source software freely made by volunteers that is used commercially. Stuff the entire internet runs on - what makes  modders so special then? Interesting viewpoint, if a bit unsettling for me. We tend to like a certain amount of control, don't we - no permission for this or that, "I'd like to be asked before you use it", guilty as charged btw. Does the open flow of ideas and resources that 'free modding' supposedly stands for stem from the 'free from pay' bit or the 'free to use' bit? How free has our modding been lately, in that regard? I'm like, dude, stop because my head is spinning. People need to be able to say those things though; it's uncomfortable but healthy.

 

On the few established modders who went along with this thing... Gopher made that point well enough, I guess. I'm all raged out but if people still wanna pour on the hate on those saps, they can do that someplace else. You gotta stop at some point anyway; now is imo the best time for it.

 

 

As DoctaSax points out, (as do the folks at Beth in their blog) it was a mistake to do this with such an established modding community.  Other games have paid mods, TF2 etc. The key is that those are Valve games. Beth claim that they did not want this curated. But we know that that backfired almost instantly. Our modding community (the community overall, not just LL) does a not totally unreasonable job of self policing, but that is mainly because we have always stuck to one rule above all others: you can't charge money for your mods. Free to use, use with permission, don't use at all; they all had the same rule, not for money.  I won't say that the idea was totally bad; if the data that Beth claims Valve showed them is accurate, then it could have worked well. But there were those two mistakes of Beth taking too much, and doing it with a 13 year old modding community.  Hopefully someone will point out to Beth and Valve that the modding communities for TES and FO overlap to the point of being almost the same.

 

I feel like we've said everything that needs saying on this topic, and I second the OP's call to close the thread. Leave the other one open for ranting, or use the Rant Thread. It's over and done with, let's leave it there.

[guk]

How would DRM'd mods even work? You could only really protect the ESM/ESP. The sound, models, textures... all of that can be ripped and reimplemented quite easily. If people can rip content from DRM'd games and put them into Skyrim/Fallout, then what's to stop me or anybody else from going into a mod and gutting it and reintroducing it in a new mod? And for that matter, how would that even work with FNVEdit/TESedit? Mod authors don't always clean their mods, and even when they are clean, being disparate independent works means you're GOING to run into conflicts eventually. Will you even be able to clean a DRM'd mod? Would I be able to go into the GECK/CK and move a conflicting door? Would I be able to edit an existing asset/script/whatever to suit my game without filling my load order up with a shit-ton of mods made for mods?

I think the idea is that the *legit* game would only load encrypted or otherwise protected mods from the workshop.

 

Of course you could use a cracked base game to begin with, but that isn't part of the discussion about how things are "working as intended" by the producer.

[Zor2k13]

@sinuev2

 

BSA could be mandatory and encrypted no more loose files to easily rip and that could be implemented into the CSE/CK.

 

@aydoo

 

Bugfesta doesn't allow anything so simply, they know if they cut off modding it would do them in because they don't want to spend the money to make a really good, bug free game. Spending money like that to them is a loss when they know the customers will fix it for them for free. They are just smart enough to see that I think, the rest they think like the M@fI@@ as usual.