windpl Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 "Our main goals were to allow mod makers the opportunity to work on their mods full time if they wanted to". Yet the company takes 75% of the revenue. Famous last words I'm sure Valve. But, but, but it worked for hats and skinzzzzz!
Vykroft Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 And what happen with the HD horse with balls? I demand a satisfaction...
DoctaSax Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 The current implementation obviously had to go - on that everybody agrees - so it went. Far too many practical issues. Doesn't feel like much of a victory to me, more like waking up with a hangover. My initial reaction to any of it was emotional: disgust, over principles. It felt good to rage a bit. But over the past few days people I respect have given opinions that did not match mine, and I could still respect them. They approach these issues from different backgrounds. Some of us believe there are unwritten rules against pay, some don't. So far they coincided with the written ones, the EULA, so that was easy. Now it's not, not even now the system's canned. There's still a rift and we gotta mend it, because as always we do the fixing. And that's gonna require an entire change in tone. Thousands and thousands of posts all around the web where people tell others they're stupid, immoral, pretentious or selfish to have different opinions, emotions or wants than their own. Hard not to do at least a little of that, I know, no matter where you stand. We pretend like we know what really goes on at Beth HQ and what the ultimate goal is. If we're broken, let's start by fixing some of that. You can't force everybody to think exactly like you.
Aydoo Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 The current implementation obviously had to go - on that everybody agrees - so it went. Far too many practical issues. Doesn't feel like much of a victory to me, more like waking up with a hangover. My initial reaction to any of it was emotional: disgust, over principles. It felt good to rage a bit. But over the past few days people I respect have given opinions that did not match mine, and I could still respect them. They approach these issues from different backgrounds. Some of us believe there are unwritten rules against pay, some don't. So far they coincided with the written ones, the EULA, so that was easy. Now it's not, not even now the system's canned. There's still a rift and we gotta mend it, because as always we do the fixing. And that's gonna require an entire change in tone. Thousands and thousands of posts all around the web where people tell others they're stupid, immoral, pretentious or selfish to have different opinions, emotions or wants than their own. Hard not to do at least a little of that, I know, no matter where you stand. We pretend like we know what really goes on at Beth HQ and what the ultimate goal is. If we're broken, let's start by fixing some of that. You can't force everybody to think exactly like you. I don't up vote often, but this post gets all mine.
Vykroft Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 Seconded.My turn:Chesko I'll install your mods again, and please come back to Loverslab or to modding in general, some of us believe that you are a valuable member of the community, even if you were burned first in this holocaust. You receive the hardest punch for something Betch and Valve started.
Guest endgameaddiction Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 If Beth and Valve would of done this the proper way, it wouldn't have gone so viral as it did. A poll and survey in advance would of helped. One done on Steam, Nexus and what ever other community they want with their registered members. They chose to creep up from behind and well, this is what happened.
cornbreadtm Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 Seconded. My turn: Chesko I'll install your mods again, and please come back to Loverslab or to modding in general, some of us believe that you are a valuable member of the community, even if you were burned first in this holocaust. You receive the hardest punch for something Betch and Valve started. Chesko taking his mods down is what fanned the flames of the paid mods models destruction. He was the first person to remove his mod even better because it use another modders assets. It showed Valve that the Skyrim modding community was already to old and it was unlikely to except the changes. When half the mods out there use assets from other modders. They have to deal with constant complaints that mods are stolen material and modders complaining about not receive a cut of the profits from another modders work that includes theirs. They might try it again but it would be with a new game. Any mods made for it would behind a pay wall from the beginning. Though that would start the end of sites like the Nexus an this one. Since they wouldn't want free mods to be available to increase profits.
guk Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 On the final posts in the closed topic about Midas Magic: Those were the few authors that completely drifted off into orbit, thinking they'd be rich tomorrow and no longer owe anyone the minimum of respect. Free version - 4-5% on spellcast for a pop-up to buy the payshop version? Business plan to add a new spell for every 500$ he earns (or was that another mod)? Talking to users in tones around the lines of "Dear Mr. Nobody" to underline his arrogance? People were raging like the fucking Hulk because of this. And they definitely will forgive Valve and Bethesda, but someone like that will never restore his reputation. I just wonder though, like teams like SkyUI, what will they do now? Are they going stop working on SkyUI now? Shame some of the modders who supported this got all of the hate and will now forever be remembered for supporting a failed project. SkyUI development was already ended long time ago. Schlangster only came back because of the payshop, in the perspective to treat SkyUI development just like regular work. Alone the fact that it was pirated on torrents the very first second it went on the payshop were indications that this approach was doomed to begin with. From what i have seen, many people only pirated it as some kind of "neener-neener" act without actually caring about the 1-2 new "features". And i assume he would have sooner or later done what all these "free today, $$$ tomorrow" business models are doing - add some exclusive and non-optional features in the new version, or place "bugs" in the old version that eventually force you to buy the payshop version. Why? Because as soon as you treat modding as "work", you have to maximize profit. At least i haven't heard from anyone doing this as a non-profit organization. Either way, since it ONLY got updated for the payshop, nothing will change about sticking to version 4.1 for the rest of Skyrim's existence. Not like the authors had any other choice. And i don't think anyone else than the minority of brown-nosing die-hard fanboys does still respect them either after their condescending comments on the bethsoft forum. edit: my dictionary just told me that "brown-nosing" was too harsh. sorry.
Content Consumer Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 I just wonder though, like teams like SkyUI, what will they do now? Are they going stop working on SkyUI now? Shame some of the modders who supported this got all of the hate and will now forever be remembered for supporting a failed project. Most of the community seems to want their heads on a pike. I doubt many will have the motivation to continue their work, and we can't really blame them for that. It's a shame. They had some really good mods. But yeah, I can't blame them for avoiding the situation either. I disliked the backlash against specific modders. They were... not duped, that's not the right word, they were sort of taken advantage of by Bethesda and Valve. All the internet's ire should have gone to them, in my opinion, and not to the modders who had the bad judgement to jump on that particular bandwagon.
Vykroft Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 Seconded. My turn: Chesko I'll install your mods again, and please come back to Loverslab or to modding in general, some of us believe that you are a valuable member of the community, even if you were burned first in this holocaust. You receive the hardest punch for something Betch and Valve started. Chesko taking his mods down is what fanned the flames of the paid mods models destruction. Even though he was probably regretful about the whole thing, or he would not have leave STEAM, others guys just stay and never regret nothing. Don't you think that anyone wise enough to regret his/her undoing deserve a second chance?
Content Consumer Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 Removing Payment Feature From Skyrim Workshop posted by Alden @ 06:04PM on April 27, 2015 We're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop. For anyone who spent money on a mod, we'll be refunding you the complete amount. We talked to the team at Bethesda and they agree. We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing. We've been shipping many features over the years aimed at allowing community creators to receive a share of the rewards, and in the past, they've been received well. It's obvious now that this case is different. To help you understand why we thought this was a good idea, our main goals were to allow mod makers the opportunity to work on their mods full time if they wanted to, and to encourage developers to provide better support to their mod communities. We thought this would result in better mods for everyone, both free & paid. We wanted more great mods becoming great products, like Dota, Counter-strike, DayZ, and Killing Floor, and we wanted that to happen organically for any mod maker who wanted to take a shot at it. But we underestimated the differences between our previously successful revenue sharing models, and the addition of paid mods to Skyrim's workshop. We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating. We think this made us miss the mark pretty badly, even though we believe there's a useful feature somewhere here. Now that you've backed a dump truck of feedback onto our inboxes, we'll be chewing through that, but if you have any further thoughts let us know. LOL.. That is what market research is for.. I have such a problem with that whole statement (and some others)... The current implementation obviously had to go - on that everybody agrees - so it went. Far too many practical issues. Doesn't feel like much of a victory to me, more like waking up with a hangover. My initial reaction to any of it was emotional: disgust, over principles. It felt good to rage a bit. But over the past few days people I respect have given opinions that did not match mine, and I could still respect them. They approach these issues from different backgrounds. Some of us believe there are unwritten rules against pay, some don't. So far they coincided with the written ones, the EULA, so that was easy. Now it's not, not even now the system's canned. There's still a rift and we gotta mend it, because as always we do the fixing. And that's gonna require an entire change in tone. Thousands and thousands of posts all around the web where people tell others they're stupid, immoral, pretentious or selfish to have different opinions, emotions or wants than their own. Hard not to do at least a little of that, I know, no matter where you stand. We pretend like we know what really goes on at Beth HQ and what the ultimate goal is. If we're broken, let's start by fixing some of that. You can't force everybody to think exactly like you. Not unwritten rules, necessarily, just accustomed privilege. At least, for me. Pretend? I'm insulted... I happen to know everything everywhere at all times, because I'm just that cool. Yeah, I guess making those kind of assumptions is pretty stupid. Ah well, I've never claimed to be smart... well, that's a lie, but I've never claimed to be always right.
pantherlux Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 i somehow have this one special ending line from jill in RE3 in my head now... "it's finally over..." (but for how long?)
Content Consumer Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 If Beth and Valve would of done this the proper way, it wouldn't have gone so viral as it did. A poll and survey in advance would of helped. One done on Steam, Nexus and what ever other community they want with their registered members. They chose to creep up from behind and well, this is what happened. Presenting it as de-facto in whatever next game they release probably won't net them the same backlash.
cornbreadtm Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 Arthmoor just posted this little nugget on wisdom on his site. So if you paid for mods.... well, sucks to be you right now. Seconded.My turn:Chesko I'll install your mods again, and please come back to Loverslab or to modding in general, some of us believe that you are a valuable member of the community, even if you were burned first in this holocaust. You receive the hardest punch for something Betch and Valve started. Chesko taking his mods down is what fanned the flames of the paid mods models destruction. Even though he was probably regretful about the whole thing, or he would not have leave STEAM, others guys just stay and never regret nothing.Don't you think that anyone wise enough to regret his/her undoing deserve a second chance? Yeah... I agreed with you lol XD
Adam Jensen Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 The current implementation obviously had to go - on that everybody agrees - so it went. Far too many practical issues. Doesn't feel like much of a victory to me, more like waking up with a hangover. My initial reaction to any of it was emotional: disgust, over principles. It felt good to rage a bit. But over the past few days people I respect have given opinions that did not match mine, and I could still respect them. They approach these issues from different backgrounds. Some of us believe there are unwritten rules against pay, some don't. So far they coincided with the written ones, the EULA, so that was easy. Now it's not, not even now the system's canned. There's still a rift and we gotta mend it, because as always we do the fixing. And that's gonna require an entire change in tone. Thousands and thousands of posts all around the web where people tell others they're stupid, immoral, pretentious or selfish to have different opinions, emotions or wants than their own. Hard not to do at least a little of that, I know, no matter where you stand. We pretend like we know what really goes on at Beth HQ and what the ultimate goal is. If we're broken, let's start by fixing some of that. You can't force everybody to think exactly like you. Just like with their games, Bethesda managed to break the modding community. As always, it's up to the community to fix and clean up Bethesda's problems.
rylasasin Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 I just wonder though, like teams like SkyUI, what will they do now? Are they going stop working on SkyUI now? Shame some of the modders who supported this got all of the hate and will now forever be remembered for supporting a failed project. On the OTHER Hand... For every Chesko and for every Maddox, there was 5-30 modders who wore this as a badge of honor: And got praised through the roof for it. Modders big and small. Small otherwise unappreciated modders got attention, and bigger modders got even more respect. And even got a few more donations for all of it. While the "sellers" got cruxified, these guys walked away the winners (and undoubtedly with more cash in their pockets at the end of the day.) As for the modders that whine, take their ball and go home... Yeah we'll miss their mods, but we'll survive. Others will step up to the plate to fill the gap left behind. This isn't the first time we've had modders who thought that because they had a few groundbreaking mods they thought they were better than everyone else, and demanded that everyone in the community bend over and kiss their ass, and then leave when they didn't get their way. They weren't missed (much), we got over them, and others stepped up to the plate to fill the gap. Same here. As for Chesko, well, I may be in the minority but I don't feel sorry for him at all. In fact it reminds me of an old folk tale: ...I kind of wish they would continue with it, for academic reasons. Just to see what the results will be It kinda makes me wonder if this whole thing wasn't actually some sort of MKULTRA type social experiment: Come up with the most shittiest system designed to screw over everyone involved and not involved, and then observe the following: How long and how far the outrage would go. What actions would be taken to stop it. The Effectiveness (or lack thereof) of inserted paid and non paid propaganda in favor of the system.
Adam Jensen Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 The weird thing is, when you think about it. If SkyUI had gone on sale, Bethesda would had literally profited from having done a crappy menu system. SkyUI was born out of the fact that the game's menu system was poorly implemented.
Aydoo Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 The current implementation obviously had to go - on that everybody agrees - so it went. Far too many practical issues. Doesn't feel like much of a victory to me, more like waking up with a hangover. My initial reaction to any of it was emotional: disgust, over principles. It felt good to rage a bit. But over the past few days people I respect have given opinions that did not match mine, and I could still respect them. They approach these issues from different backgrounds. Some of us believe there are unwritten rules against pay, some don't. So far they coincided with the written ones, the EULA, so that was easy. Now it's not, not even now the system's canned. There's still a rift and we gotta mend it, because as always we do the fixing. And that's gonna require an entire change in tone. Thousands and thousands of posts all around the web where people tell others they're stupid, immoral, pretentious or selfish to have different opinions, emotions or wants than their own. Hard not to do at least a little of that, I know, no matter where you stand. We pretend like we know what really goes on at Beth HQ and what the ultimate goal is. If we're broken, let's start by fixing some of that. You can't force everybody to think exactly like you. Just like with their games, Bethesda managed to break the modding community. As always, it's up to the community to fix and clean up Bethesda's problems. The community broke itself. The vitrol, death threats, and hatemongering didn't come from the company. You have people saying bullshit like this: The immaturity in the community has been astounding.
Adam Jensen Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 The current implementation obviously had to go - on that everybody agrees - so it went. Far too many practical issues. Doesn't feel like much of a victory to me, more like waking up with a hangover. My initial reaction to any of it was emotional: disgust, over principles. It felt good to rage a bit. But over the past few days people I respect have given opinions that did not match mine, and I could still respect them. They approach these issues from different backgrounds. Some of us believe there are unwritten rules against pay, some don't. So far they coincided with the written ones, the EULA, so that was easy. Now it's not, not even now the system's canned. There's still a rift and we gotta mend it, because as always we do the fixing. And that's gonna require an entire change in tone. Thousands and thousands of posts all around the web where people tell others they're stupid, immoral, pretentious or selfish to have different opinions, emotions or wants than their own. Hard not to do at least a little of that, I know, no matter where you stand. We pretend like we know what really goes on at Beth HQ and what the ultimate goal is. If we're broken, let's start by fixing some of that. You can't force everybody to think exactly like you. Just like with their games, Bethesda managed to break the modding community. As always, it's up to the community to fix and clean up Bethesda's problems. The community broke itself. The vitrol, death threats, and hatemongering didn't come from the company. You have people saying bullshit like this: wat.jpg The immaturity in the community has been astounding. If Bethesda hadn't done this, there wouldn't have been a civil war in the first place. That's what I meant by saying they broke the community.
cornbreadtm Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 I just wonder though, like teams like SkyUI, what will they do now? Are they going stop working on SkyUI now? Shame some of the modders who supported this got all of the hate and will now forever be remembered for supporting a failed project. On the OTHER Hand... For every Chesko and for every Maddox, there was 5-30 modders who wore this as a badge of honor: And got praised through the roof for it. Modders big and small. Small otherwise unappreciated modders got attention, and bigger modders got even more respect. And even got a few more donations for all of it. While the "sellers" got cruxified, these guys walked away the winners (and undoubtedly with more cash in their pockets at the end of the day.) As for the modders that whine, take their ball and go home... Yeah we'll miss their mods, but we'll survive. Others will step up to the plate to fill the gap left behind. This isn't the first time we've had modders who thought that because they had a few groundbreaking mods they thought they were better than everyone else, and demanded that everyone in the community bend over and kiss their ass, and then leave when they didn't get their way. They weren't missed (much), we got over them, and others stepped up to the plate to fill the gap. Same here. As for Chesko, well, I may be in the minority but I don't feel sorry for him at all. In fact it reminds me of an old folk tale: ...I kind of wish they would continue with it, for academic reasons. Just to see what the results will be It kinda makes me wonder if this whole thing wasn't actually some sort of MKULTRA type social experiment: Come up with the most shittiest system designed to screw over everyone involved and not involved, and then observe the following: How long and how far the outrage would go. What actions would be taken to stop it. The Effectiveness (or lack thereof) of inserted paid and non paid propaganda in favor of the system. Video was perfect! But humans will always hope for a different out come.
cornbreadtm Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 Bring back paid mods. The next big mod to replace "Give me money for no reason" and "Free Forever"! http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65223/?
Aydoo Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 The current implementation obviously had to go - on that everybody agrees - so it went. Far too many practical issues. Doesn't feel like much of a victory to me, more like waking up with a hangover. My initial reaction to any of it was emotional: disgust, over principles. It felt good to rage a bit. But over the past few days people I respect have given opinions that did not match mine, and I could still respect them. They approach these issues from different backgrounds. Some of us believe there are unwritten rules against pay, some don't. So far they coincided with the written ones, the EULA, so that was easy. Now it's not, not even now the system's canned. There's still a rift and we gotta mend it, because as always we do the fixing. And that's gonna require an entire change in tone. Thousands and thousands of posts all around the web where people tell others they're stupid, immoral, pretentious or selfish to have different opinions, emotions or wants than their own. Hard not to do at least a little of that, I know, no matter where you stand. We pretend like we know what really goes on at Beth HQ and what the ultimate goal is. If we're broken, let's start by fixing some of that. You can't force everybody to think exactly like you. Just like with their games, Bethesda managed to break the modding community. As always, it's up to the community to fix and clean up Bethesda's problems. The community broke itself. The vitrol, death threats, and hatemongering didn't come from the company. You have people saying bullshit like this: wat.jpg The immaturity in the community has been astounding. If Bethesda hadn't done this, there wouldn't have been a civil war in the first place. All I see is a bunch of hypocrites. People who bitched and whined about Nexus, but still use it. People who bitched and whined about people making money on their ORIGINAL assets, and will still use them. How many are you going to keep crucifying these mod makers, but stop using SKYUI all together? You guys going to crucify Expired and stop using Racemenu because he put up a mod on the workshop for sale? What about the other authors who were trying to sell their models? Lets take this further. What about amateur artists who ask for commisions? Are we going to rally against them for seeking compensation for their hobby? I saw tons of rhetoric about "Well if you want a job doing this why don't you go work for a game company!?" or that "Modding is a hobby!" Someone used the whittler analogy and people were like, "but its a physical product?!" So are digital artists not allowed to be paid for their work? There are so many "but.."s going around its starting to smell like farts. The problem wasn't being paid for mods. The problem was that it wasn't REGULATED, and mods could easily be stolen. The problem was that the cut was TOO small. The problem was that the community was already to established and mods relied on too much of OTHER people's work to effectively sell. Every modder, who makes original assets, deserves to be paid something, because they are doing a service, and providing a new product. Whether you view modding as a hobby or an entry into the development world doesn't matter.
Loogie Posted April 28, 2015 Posted April 28, 2015 Yeah. It's a great victory that instead of fixing a flawed first-of-its-kind system the internet curb-stomped it to death instead of pushing to fix it.
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