Paid Modding is gone... or is it?

[Darkwisdom]

Sometimes people make bad decisions. Heck, I made so many bad decisions in my life, I should know

But people deserve a second chance if they realize their bad choice and regret it.

 

The Paid Mods are gone, but the community is still tearing itself apart over it. That makes me sad.

We need an "Unoffical Mod Community Patch". We have to pick up the pieces and glue them together again.

 

Many compared all of this to a "war" or "battle".

If anything at all, this was a proxy war. Valve/Beth pitted modder against modder.

We should not let talented modders become casualties of this proxy war.

 

Of course, like with every war, there are collaborators, they should be shunned. But we should make sure, we shun the right people.

And we should embrace those back into the community that got sucked into this by making one bad decision.

 

Let us set a sign that we are a community, not a corporation where someone gets fired for one bad decision.

Let us show that we are better than that.

 

Peace!

 

 

You're right, completely right. The paywall is gone but the rubble is still there. People are going to take a while before they trust team Sky UI or Isoku again, since they sold us out in an instant. Their mods are crucial and the base of many installations, it's a bit of a punch in the face.

 

Respectable modders should've at the least talked to the community before going straight to paid mods. And I have even bigger respect for the big name modders who didn't go for paid modding or even consider it like t3and0. He was completely against the idea - even though many people would've paid quite a lot for perkus maximus as such a crucial and widely used mod. 

[Aydoo]

 

Sometimes people make bad decisions. Heck, I made so many bad decisions in my life, I should know

But people deserve a second chance if they realize their bad choice and regret it.

 

The Paid Mods are gone, but the community is still tearing itself apart over it. That makes me sad.

We need an "Unoffical Mod Community Patch". We have to pick up the pieces and glue them together again.

 

Many compared all of this to a "war" or "battle".

If anything at all, this was a proxy war. Valve/Beth pitted modder against modder.

We should not let talented modders become casualties of this proxy war.

 

Of course, like with every war, there are collaborators, they should be shunned. But we should make sure, we shun the right people.

And we should embrace those back into the community that got sucked into this by making one bad decision.

 

Let us set a sign that we are a community, not a corporation where someone gets fired for one bad decision.

Let us show that we are better than that.

 

Peace!

 

 

You're right, completely right. The paywall is gone but the rubble is still there. People are going to take a while before they trust team Sky UI or Isoku again, since they sold us out in an instant. Their mods are crucial and the base of many installations, it's a bit of a punch in the face.

 

Respectable modders should've at the least talked to the community before going straight to paid mods. And I have even bigger respect for the big name modders who didn't go for paid modding or even consider it like t3and0. He was completely against the idea - even though many people would've paid quite a lot for perkus maximus as such a crucial and widely used mod. 

 

 

Man, all those garage bands over the years; they're sellouts! They should have just kept to their hobby and played music for themselves for free!

 

Man, all those artists and illustrators, who have ever made money on something they created, they're sellouts! They should have just kept to their hobby and  done their art and given it away to the public for free!

 

Man, all those people who design video games, they're sellouts! They should just design and publish video games, because its a hobby, for free!

 

Man, everyone who sells stuff on etsy is a sellout! They are all hobbyists and shouldn't make money on their products and give it away for free!

 

[cornbreadtm]

 

@jacques

I'm worried about the ramifications of paid modding, how Bethesda will implement it and what they will do with the content uploaded.  They'll have to control everything and are they or Valve really trustworthy at this point?

 

The 25/75 split, Steam Dollars instead of real cash, banning people for multiple refunds even though that doesn't violate any Steam/Valve TOS, Gabby Gabe and his comments, Todd Howard and his well-established contempt for PC gamers, and so on.  That's just from the corporate side and doesn't even consider modders revamping dead mods just for paywall uploads or modders charging for content they didn't make.  None of these entities or individuals are showing any level of competency or morals.  No one should trust them, imo.

 

Something that people might be overlooking is how that Chesko dumb ass got rogered when he asked that the fishing mod be removed from Steam.  'Nope, not gonna.' was their response.  That tells me people who upload paid mods do not retain creative control and are being denied instance of creation rights.  THAT is illegal but the Steam response of 'unless legally compelled to do so' is corporate lingo for 'Fuck you sue me.'  And good luck with that.  That is a bad business model and if it was their response to the FIRST request to have a paid mod removed, what will the future hold?  Valve has already demonstrated they have no moral backbone and they are not going to do the right thing.  They don't work on the honor system like modders do and modders are NOT prepared to deal with that emotionally or financially.  If someone uploads a paid mod that has original meshes and textures that do not rely on a Bethesda platform to work they are going to take that and treat it like is an esp made with their software.  And they'll get away with it.

 

And Valve is using their MineCraft sales model and applying it for Skyrim and we all know by now that did not work.  Valve also has a shit reputation for refunds and we all know that too.  The way they are handling the store front for individual artists will turn the type of modders they're looking for away in droves.  At Renderosity the vendors have control over what they sell and what is or is not available.  Renderosity doesn't determine that.  Like when the Victoria Body was updated to v5 Renderosity did not tell the vendors they couldn't delete outdated v4 content.  Valve/Steam would do just that, like they did to Chesko.

 

I don't see any of this driving modders to be better at what they do.  All I see paid mods doing is driving a wedge and making two factions at odds with one another.  Free modders will not allow paid modders to benefit from their work and paid modders will be greedy (because they've already demonstrated they are) and not allow their content to be used in free mods.  That is what I see happening and the community as a whole will suffer for the sake of Valve and Bethesda's bank statements.  The free and open exchange that drives modding will cease.

 

 

When the steam workshop was first created. One of the main points for people not to upload there was the fact that Valve owns anything uploaded. Of course I wasn't people of this and they still do it cause, "More people see my mod and I get more endorsements!" I even got some. "It's not like they can make money off of my mods." Yeah that turned out great.

 

Then these... persons of lesser wit decided to upload their mods to the Steam Workshop knowing full well that they will own their mods because of money.

 

I only saw a few original mods made explicitly for the paid steam workshop. Anyone who was just re-uploading their old mods with a update were just money grabbing.

 

Only Expired did it right. He uploaded a new mod to steam workshop and the same version to the Nexus. Since the workshop doesn't have a "donation what you want" button he used it like that.

[Darkwisdom]

 

 

Sometimes people make bad decisions. Heck, I made so many bad decisions in my life, I should know

But people deserve a second chance if they realize their bad choice and regret it.

 

The Paid Mods are gone, but the community is still tearing itself apart over it. That makes me sad.

We need an "Unoffical Mod Community Patch". We have to pick up the pieces and glue them together again.

 

Many compared all of this to a "war" or "battle".

If anything at all, this was a proxy war. Valve/Beth pitted modder against modder.

We should not let talented modders become casualties of this proxy war.

 

Of course, like with every war, there are collaborators, they should be shunned. But we should make sure, we shun the right people.

And we should embrace those back into the community that got sucked into this by making one bad decision.

 

Let us set a sign that we are a community, not a corporation where someone gets fired for one bad decision.

Let us show that we are better than that.

 

Peace!

 

 

You're right, completely right. The paywall is gone but the rubble is still there. People are going to take a while before they trust team Sky UI or Isoku again, since they sold us out in an instant. Their mods are crucial and the base of many installations, it's a bit of a punch in the face.

 

Respectable modders should've at the least talked to the community before going straight to paid mods. And I have even bigger respect for the big name modders who didn't go for paid modding or even consider it like t3and0. He was completely against the idea - even though many people would've paid quite a lot for perkus maximus as such a crucial and widely used mod. 

 

 

Man, all those garage bands over the years; they're sellouts! They should have just kept to their hobby and played music for themselves for free!

 

Man, all those artists and illustrators, who have ever made money on something they created, they're sellouts! They should have just kept to their hobby and  done their art and given it away to the public for free!

 

Man, all those people who design video games, they're sellouts! They should just design and publish video games, because its a hobby, for free!

 

Man, everyone who sells stuff on etsy is a sellout! They are all hobbyists and shouldn't make money on their products and give it away for free!

 

 

 

You're not stupid, you know this isn't about getting paid for their efforts. It's about betraying the entire community the moment money is dangled in their faces. More people would've had respect and even uplifting if they'd spoken about their choice beforehand. 

 

Most of us disagree not with the whole idea but with the way it was implemented. One day "BAM!" it's right in your face without any warning.

 

If it was more like a humblebundle style which let you donate the amount you wanted - with the choice of how much of a cut goes to the modder, more people would be on board. Charging several pounds for a sword ripped from DOTA is not the right way to do things. 

[cornbreadtm]

 

 

 

Sometimes people make bad decisions. Heck, I made so many bad decisions in my life, I should know

But people deserve a second chance if they realize their bad choice and regret it.

 

The Paid Mods are gone, but the community is still tearing itself apart over it. That makes me sad.

We need an "Unoffical Mod Community Patch". We have to pick up the pieces and glue them together again.

 

Many compared all of this to a "war" or "battle".

If anything at all, this was a proxy war. Valve/Beth pitted modder against modder.

We should not let talented modders become casualties of this proxy war.

 

Of course, like with every war, there are collaborators, they should be shunned. But we should make sure, we shun the right people.

And we should embrace those back into the community that got sucked into this by making one bad decision.

 

Let us set a sign that we are a community, not a corporation where someone gets fired for one bad decision.

Let us show that we are better than that.

 

Peace!

 

 

You're right, completely right. The paywall is gone but the rubble is still there. People are going to take a while before they trust team Sky UI or Isoku again, since they sold us out in an instant. Their mods are crucial and the base of many installations, it's a bit of a punch in the face.

 

Respectable modders should've at the least talked to the community before going straight to paid mods. And I have even bigger respect for the big name modders who didn't go for paid modding or even consider it like t3and0. He was completely against the idea - even though many people would've paid quite a lot for perkus maximus as such a crucial and widely used mod. 

 

 

Man, all those garage bands over the years; they're sellouts! They should have just kept to their hobby and played music for themselves for free!

 

Man, all those artists and illustrators, who have ever made money on something they created, they're sellouts! They should have just kept to their hobby and  done their art and given it away to the public for free!

 

Man, all those people who design video games, they're sellouts! They should just design and publish video games, because its a hobby, for free!

 

Man, everyone who sells stuff on etsy is a sellout! They are all hobbyists and shouldn't make money on their products and give it away for free!

 

 

 

You're not stupid, you know this isn't about getting paid for their efforts. It's about betraying the entire community the moment money is dangled in their faces. More people would've had respect and even uplifting if they'd spoken about their choice beforehand. 

 

Most of us disagree not with the whole idea but with the way it was implemented. One day "BAM!" it's right in your face without any warning.

 

If it was more like a humblebundle style which let you donate the amount you wanted - with the choice of how much of a cut goes to the modder, more people would be on board. Charging several pounds for a sword ripped from DOTA is not the right way to do things. 

 

 

You literally just defined selling out.... so you agree with them. Great!

 

Next convo.

 

[Aydoo]

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes people make bad decisions. Heck, I made so many bad decisions in my life, I should know

But people deserve a second chance if they realize their bad choice and regret it.

 

The Paid Mods are gone, but the community is still tearing itself apart over it. That makes me sad.

We need an "Unoffical Mod Community Patch". We have to pick up the pieces and glue them together again.

 

Many compared all of this to a "war" or "battle".

If anything at all, this was a proxy war. Valve/Beth pitted modder against modder.

We should not let talented modders become casualties of this proxy war.

 

Of course, like with every war, there are collaborators, they should be shunned. But we should make sure, we shun the right people.

And we should embrace those back into the community that got sucked into this by making one bad decision.

 

Let us set a sign that we are a community, not a corporation where someone gets fired for one bad decision.

Let us show that we are better than that.

 

Peace!

 

 

You're right, completely right. The paywall is gone but the rubble is still there. People are going to take a while before they trust team Sky UI or Isoku again, since they sold us out in an instant. Their mods are crucial and the base of many installations, it's a bit of a punch in the face.

 

Respectable modders should've at the least talked to the community before going straight to paid mods. And I have even bigger respect for the big name modders who didn't go for paid modding or even consider it like t3and0. He was completely against the idea - even though many people would've paid quite a lot for perkus maximus as such a crucial and widely used mod. 

 

 

Man, all those garage bands over the years; they're sellouts! They should have just kept to their hobby and played music for themselves for free!

 

Man, all those artists and illustrators, who have ever made money on something they created, they're sellouts! They should have just kept to their hobby and  done their art and given it away to the public for free!

 

Man, all those people who design video games, they're sellouts! They should just design and publish video games, because its a hobby, for free!
 

Man, everyone who sells stuff on etsy is a sellout! They are all hobbyists and shouldn't make money on their products and give it away for free!

 

 

 

You're not stupid, you know this isn't about getting paid for their efforts. It's about betraying the entire community the moment money is dangled in their faces. More people would've had respect and even uplifting if they'd spoken about their choice beforehand. 

 

 

 

 

You say this as if any of the people selling anything owes you something. PS, they don't. They didn't betray the community. They don't owe you an explanation. They don't owe you an apology. They had every right to sell their product as soon as it was legally possible to do it.

 

You, and by extension the plural community, aren't entitled to anything anyone has created for this game, for free, paid, or otherwise.

 

 

You literally just defined selling out.... so you agree with them. Great!

 

Next convo.

 

Lol

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

 

 

 

 

Sometimes people make bad decisions. Heck, I made so many bad decisions in my life, I should know

But people deserve a second chance if they realize their bad choice and regret it.

 

The Paid Mods are gone, but the community is still tearing itself apart over it. That makes me sad.

We need an "Unoffical Mod Community Patch". We have to pick up the pieces and glue them together again.

 

Many compared all of this to a "war" or "battle".

If anything at all, this was a proxy war. Valve/Beth pitted modder against modder.

We should not let talented modders become casualties of this proxy war.

 

Of course, like with every war, there are collaborators, they should be shunned. But we should make sure, we shun the right people.

And we should embrace those back into the community that got sucked into this by making one bad decision.

 

Let us set a sign that we are a community, not a corporation where someone gets fired for one bad decision.

Let us show that we are better than that.

 

Peace!

 

 

You're right, completely right. The paywall is gone but the rubble is still there. People are going to take a while before they trust team Sky UI or Isoku again, since they sold us out in an instant. Their mods are crucial and the base of many installations, it's a bit of a punch in the face.

 

Respectable modders should've at the least talked to the community before going straight to paid mods. And I have even bigger respect for the big name modders who didn't go for paid modding or even consider it like t3and0. He was completely against the idea - even though many people would've paid quite a lot for perkus maximus as such a crucial and widely used mod. 

 

 

Man, all those garage bands over the years; they're sellouts! They should have just kept to their hobby and played music for themselves for free!

 

Man, all those artists and illustrators, who have ever made money on something they created, they're sellouts! They should have just kept to their hobby and  done their art and given it away to the public for free!

 

Man, all those people who design video games, they're sellouts! They should just design and publish video games, because its a hobby, for free!

 

Man, everyone who sells stuff on etsy is a sellout! They are all hobbyists and shouldn't make money on their products and give it away for free!

 

 

 

You're not stupid, you know this isn't about getting paid for their efforts. It's about betraying the entire community the moment money is dangled in their faces. More people would've had respect and even uplifting if they'd spoken about their choice beforehand. 

 

 

You say this as if any of the people selling anything owes you something. PS, they don't. They didn't betray the community. They don't owe you an explanation. They don't owe you an apology. They had every right to sell their product as soon as it was legally possible to do it.

 

You, and by extension the plural community, aren't entitled to anything anyone has created for this game, for free, paid, or otherwise.

 

 

And by extension they don't deserve a single cent unless we decide that they do.

 

[modslave]

You know if you read the Beth Blog on this its fairly clear.

 

The situation has been resolved and the community, which to be fair, not all of it agreed, but Bethesda has taken the concerns of the modding community seriously and its over.

 

For the people still spoiling for fights and expecting the sky to fall in this thread.....just chill out, first of all when you assume just because Bethesda didn't "get yer mods" this time..they'll try again, thats just patently the kind of mindset of people that spend most of their time on other parts of the internet warning people about how "teh gubermint" is just waiting for the right opportunity to kill everyone and enslave their children. Seriously try to have more respect for yourself.

 

And for the people that are literally baiting people into arguing with them over the topic that modders deserve compensation....I think you need to consider what the word deserve means, then look at the entire history of TES based modding and tell me at what point was it established and agreed that everyone that makes a mod deserves compensation for that.

 

Better Bodies for Morrowind was not made because people felt they deserved compensation, they also had to host the files themselves and pay for their own bandwidth.....I swear this generation is the most entitled generation I have ever dealt with.....you make mods, great, you don't deserve compensation for making mods. Just like a guy drawing murals on the freaking street, no one is required to pay you a dollar because you're sitting there making a pretty picture. 

 

The community doesn't owe modders anything. No one owes modders anything, as a modder myself I don't believe anyone owes me anything. I did what I did because I cared enough about a certain aspect of a game to add something to it, or to fix something that was broken in it. Thats it...thats all.

 

There is no deserve when it comes to modding. 

[Aydoo]

Did you just compare vandalism to modding...?

[Jexsam]

The Paid Mods are gone, but the community is still tearing itself apart over it. That makes me sad.

It'll die down. I doubt it'll ever go back to the way it was, though. Like GornGrimm said, this became a conflict of world views and ethics, and those are two things that often clash violently. Now that it's been dragged to the forefront in a spectacular manner, it's not just going to go away. People have been galvanized in their opinions and we're going to be seeing modder skirmishes for a long time...

[aqqh]

 

The Paid Mods are gone, but the community is still tearing itself apart over it. That makes me sad.

It'll die down. I doubt it'll ever go back to the way it was, though. Like GornGrimm said, this became a conflict of world views and ethics, and those are two things that often clash violently. Now that it's been dragged to the forefront in a spectacular manner, it's not just going to go away. People have been galvanized in their opinions and we're going to be seeing modder skirmishes for a long time...

 

Ye because all this mess have showed that there is a problem.

 

And now we are only back to pretending that the problem does not exist...

[Nergui]

Did you just compare vandalism to modding...?

 

It's not an inaccurate comparison. Modding is the same as painting rosy cheeks on the Mona Lisa, painting greek statues of women in 'realisitic' colours, repositioning a sculpture, or a hundred other things to 'improve' a piece of art. At least that's how I've always veiwed modding, you're changing another's art to suit yourself. At least that's how I've always felt, but it never stopped me from making those changes.

 

As to Bethesda/Zenimax, they have successfully flushed their reputation down the toilet and joined the ranks of EA and Ubisoft. As for their next game, I'll wait until after they release the CK I even consider buying in case they try this crap again.

 

Edit - sorry Aydoo, I had extra stuff to add

[Aydoo]

 

Did you just compare vandalism to modding...?

 

It's not an inaccurate comparison. Modding is the same as painting rosy cheeks on the Mona Lisa, painting greek statues of women in 'realisitic' colours, repositioning a sculpture, or a hundred other things to 'improve' a piece of art.

 

At least that's how I've always veiwed modding, you're changing another's art to suit yourself. At least that's how I've always felt, but it never stopped me from making those changes.

 

 

Fair enough, though in the case of Skyrim modding, its the owner of a building inviting you to draw/paint whatever you want on it, rather than just painting random private/public structures. One being legal the other not.

[Kendo 2]

You, and by extension the plural community, aren't entitled to anything anyone has created for this game, for free, paid, or otherwise.

So I'm guessing honor, loyalty and personal integrity are dead and stinking in your world?  People can do what they want when they want and no one is allowed moral outrage?  If it feels good, do it?

 

Got news for you; we are all entitled a little bit of respect unless our personal merits and actions prove otherwise.  This plural community you obviously have contemp for had every reason and RIGHT to feel betrayed by the handful of unscrupulous modders who wanted to cash in at the expense of the people who made their mods popular.  Instead of gratitude and fealty the plural community got a virtual knife in the back.  If the community isn't entitled to respect, then neither are the ones who betrayed it.

 

And the plural community isn't ragequitting or on the virtual run to hide from their dirty misdeeds.  That would be the self-involved modders who thought they could do what they want when they want and no one would say anything.  Didn't quite work out that way, did it? 

[winny257]

 

 

Steam Workshop: Paid Skyrim mods stopped, buyers will receive money steam cash back       

 

Fixed.

When you were buying those mods you were paying with steam cash.

Then what did you expect?

 

International money transfers are not free you know?

 

 

it seems to me that it you stinks powerful that Valve has conscripted the ass and paid mods has withdrawn?  

 

I have absolutely nothing against a donation to the modder, but an obligation to pay is not at all!

[modslave]

Did you just compare vandalism to modding...?

 

 

Street art is not considered vandalism in all cities, it is common for people doing sidewalk murals to be tipped by passersby for it and to do so without being harassed by the police. Additionally the term "street art" also extends to people that sit around in city squares drawing caricatures and doing it for money.

 

The comparison being, the guy might be a really good caricature artist, but I'm not required to buy one unless I really think I want one and really like his work.

 

And to be fair, some modding is vandalism. There is a mod right now on the Nexus where someone literally just poured a black paint bucket over some armor textures and was like "black skyrim armor mod!".....tell me thats not vandalism. 

[Kofina]

Don't celebrate too early, there's still a chance that although it's gone for one game, it'll happen for another. What if more companies attempt to do this with different wrapping paper?
Though Bethesda lost their proxy, what's stopping them from doing this in the future through other services?

Some modders (Such as Maddox and that other guy with the midas thing) are royally PISSED that this happened, your reaction to their reactions?

[Aydoo]

 

You, and by extension the plural community, aren't entitled to anything anyone has created for this game, for free, paid, or otherwise.

So I'm guessing honor, loyalty and personal integrity are dead and stinking in your world?  People can do what they want when they want and no one is allowed moral outrage?  If it feels good, do it?

 

Got news for you; we are all entitled a little bit of respect unless our personal merits and actions prove otherwise.  This plural community you obviously have contemp for had every reason and RIGHT to feel betrayed by the handful of unscrupulous modders who wanted to cash in at the expense of the people who made their mods popular.  Instead of gratitude and fealty the plural community got a virtual knife in the back.  If the community isn't entitled to respect, then neither are the ones who betrayed it.

 

And the plural community isn't ragequitting or on the virtual run to hide from their dirty misdeeds.  That would be the self-involved modders who thought they could do what they want when they want and no one would say anything.  Didn't quite work out that way, did it? 

 

 

There is nothing immoral about accepting money for services rendered.

 

Well unless you are a communist.

Are you a communist?

 

Joking aside, that's some rhetoric.

 

The community I have contempt are the ones going on a witch hunt still, and condemning modders; making "modder blacklists" and other such trite. As I stated in another post, all these people are hypocrites because you can be sure they are still using SKSE and other mods by these people they are demonizing.

[Kofina]

ALSO:

LOL

[modslave]

Don't celebrate too early, there's still a chance that although it's gone for one game, it'll happen for another. What if more companies attempt to do this with different wrapping paper?

Though Bethesda lost their proxy, what's stopping them from doing this in the future through other services?

 

Some modders (Such as Maddox and that other guy with the midas thing) are royally PISSED that this happened, your reaction to their reactions?

 

I think they're mad at the wrong people. Rather than being upset that the community didn't want to buy SkyUI, they should be upset that Bethesda didn't buy it and patch it over Skyrim's horrible UI as an apology for how bad the UI was.

 

In all fairness the real crying shame here is that people like Maddox and Chesko can't get someone in the mainstream industry to hire them. Velicky got picked up by Bungie for Falskaar. Why can't Chesko get picked up by...ANYONE for his work on survival immersion? Why can't Maddox et al be hired by Bethesda to do not retarded UI work.

 

The problem here is the industry not properly recognizing high level work for what it is, and eventually making space for the most talented modders at the table...because who's actually profited off of SkyUI? Oh thats right....Bethesda.

 

So who owes Maddox something? Probably Bethesda.

[dobmc]

Some random comments I found interesting on Reddit:

 

 

 

 

 

I apologize for breaking the flow of discussion here.

[Aydoo]

 

Don't celebrate too early, there's still a chance that although it's gone for one game, it'll happen for another. What if more companies attempt to do this with different wrapping paper?

Though Bethesda lost their proxy, what's stopping them from doing this in the future through other services?

 

Some modders (Such as Maddox and that other guy with the midas thing) are royally PISSED that this happened, your reaction to their reactions?

 

I think they're mad at the wrong people. Rather than being upset that the community didn't want to buy SkyUI, they should be upset that Bethesda didn't buy it and patch it over Skyrim's horrible UI as an apology for how bad the UI was.

 

In all fairness the real crying shame here is that people like Maddox and Chesko can't get someone in the mainstream industry to hire them. Velicky got picked up by Bungie for Falskaar. Why can't Chesko get picked up by...ANYONE for his work on survival immersion? Why can't Maddox et al be hired by Bethesda to do not retarded UI work.

 

The problem here is the industry not properly recognizing high level work for what it is, and eventually making space for the most talented modders at the table...because who's actually profited off of SkyUI? Oh thats right....Bethesda.

 

So who owes Maddox something? Probably Bethesda.

 

 

The reason why is that the industry is over saturated with "talent." You have guys in their 50s/60s who got in when the industry boomed in the 80s/90s and they're sitting on the top. They then recycle countless grads with mass layoffs, studio closures, and canceled projects. There isn't really much of a place in the established industry for small time developers unless you have the cash to make your own studio.

 

[Vacaliga]

I feel like a certain Sun Tzu quote is worth remembering here.

 

"No nation has ever benefited from prolonged war"

 

So regardless of the result im glad it ended as quickly as it did before things got even more ugly. and if i offended anyone during this for that i am sorry.

 

And as personal recap i was not a fan of way it was presented, to me, an interesting idea poorly executed.

Could i have accepted that it was a thing had it not been taken down or changed, perhaps

would i have liked it better if had been "fixed" to better version, most definitely but still with the self reminder of shop responsively.

am i upset that its gone? not really what upset me was the way it was addressed and ultimately taken down, supposedly by the art of pitchfork. that from the outside perspective resembled something like the internet version of the battle for jerusalem

 

Anyways that i believe that was my que.

 

Exit stage left.  

 

 

 

[Princessity]

As a PR student I kinda feel compelled to play devil's advocate for Valve and Bethesda but at the same time I also have to criticise the fact that they seemed to be so surprised by the community's reaction. While they had an interesting idea I feel like they failed every step of the way when it came to implementation.

 

If I had been in charge of the project I probably would have started with something less... blunt. Like forexamplish holding an official modding contest where the winning mods would be released by Beth/Valve as cheap DLC. Neverwinter Nights once did something similar and it worked. Or something like that, and then go from there with little baby steps...

 

But nuh, there was no gradual easing the community into the idea, no limited scope experimentation, seemingly no regard for similar debacles in the past (The Sims) and just the horrible timing. Whose idea was it to change the rules of a 3 year old modding scene overnight? Suddenly dumping the full extent of paid modding on a community that had never ever been exposed to it guarantees a horrible backlash with scientific certainty.

 

But for all the laziness, greed and shortsightedness of the companies involved, I think in this whole mess their faults actually look childishly innocent compared to the disgusting behaviour of both modders and users on both sides of the conflict.

 

After seeing all the silly extremes they went to: pulling out previously free mods and/or retroactively implementing weird DRM measures, witholding source code, stealing and monetising other peoples' mods, charging exorbitant prices on one side... and spamming comment sections, harassing and shaming premium modders privately and publicly, pirating premium mods and probably other awful things I'm happily not aware of on the other... It was the first time I felt so ashamed to be a part of the TES modding community. When everyone suddenly started showing their true faces and doing horrible things to each other I seriously felt like this was a bad dream and I just wanted to wake up.

 

Right now I'm happy I did. Despite their ill conceived idea and inexcusably bad implementation the greedy corporations actually come out of this as the good guys because they were smart enough to put an end to this so quickly and so decisively. It will probably take some time for things to go back to normal and I'm sad that some damage will not be easy (if at all possible) to repair but I'm hoping we have all learned something from this and the next time something this controversial happens everyone will be able to deal with it... better somehow?

[Kofina]

Midas Magic Evolved needs YOUR HELP!

The comments on that thread are gold.

EDIT: wow... just... wow. He expects help and then he takes a crack at Jews? His mod is fucked.