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A little warning to mod creators of non adult mods....

LordNecris

By LordNecris,
in General Discussion

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zippy57

zippy57

Posted
Posted

Load of bull. Started snickering at the comparison between modders and youtubers. Do I pay 5 fucking dollars to watch that jackass Norwegian kid pewdiepie spit on his mic for half an hour ? No. Hence no comparison here.

It wasn't meant to be an exact parallel in that sense. It was meant to point out that people said "you shouldn't get paid for making videos, it's just a hobby" and now people are saying "you shouldn't get paid for making mods, it's just a hobby".

 

Furthermore I'm sorry what ? Did that guy say paid mods would attract more talented modders ?

It will, at least in theory. He even gave an example of that already happening. People can put more time into something they're getting paid for. People better at things like to get paid for them. If people who are better at things can get paid for modding, they might be modding instead of doing something else.

 

And yeah modders should be paid for their work. At least if I have to pay for something I want, let the money go to the dude who makes it, not to Valve for fuck sake.

This was a major point made by the video you called a "load of bull".

A She-Wolf

A She-Wolf

Posted
Posted

 

 

I get what you're saying, but it's kind of unfair to hold modders to a higher standard than Bethesda. :P

 

Lol, but maybe that's my problem. I do hold that much standard and more for Bethesda and any other corporate game developer. 

 

But so far their reaction is thus

 

r3unyeG.gif

 

 

Plus, you know, in a way I'm with nutluck, It's not about the money.

 

It's the naughty of turning a mod-by-definition into uneditable DLC, which you paid for.. which can be inevitably broken like a lot of DLC.  Which can be incompatible with other DLC.

 

In future, companies like Valve would like to see the end of Mod Organizer, Bashed patches, esp merge... TES Edit... Lover's Lab?  

 

Why? because... these things don't make them any money.

 

It's just my perspective. Maybe it's not like that at all. But if it is, well then, these Mod creators don't seem to be worried about supporting that. 

Guest endgameaddiction

Guest endgameaddiction

Posted
Posted

The funniest part is that people genuinely think that this is even remotely feasible.  I hope valve enjoys the 9,999 e-mails per day they're going to get about broken mods that people paid for and are now mad about because they don't work, or because those mods require 10 other mods that require 15 other mods that you can't even get on the steam workshop, that are a lot harder to install than clicking 'subscribe here.'

 

 

Which brings up a good point. What if a really huge developed mod that cost money relies on some content from a smaller mod that doesn't make any kind of cash? Or from an author that uploads modders resource. What then? Is that person going to get a percentage?

Redflyingmonkey

Redflyingmonkey

Posted
Posted

I actually agree with TotalBiscuit. It's not the idea of having to pay for mods that puts me off, it's the fact that Valve chose to take the easy, greedy way of doing it that ultimately screws over both modders and, most importantly, users.

 

I like free stuff like every other guy, and I am deeply grateful for the wonderful, talented modders who are willing to work long hours on a project and let me use it for free. But at the same time, if those people choose to ask for money for their hard work, I respect their decision. Granted, this doesn't mean I'd be willing to pay for each and every mod I've used with any semblance of regularity, because like most people, if something is free, I'm inclined to take it with little regard to how much I actually need it. But some mods, provided the price was reasonable, I'd buy without much regret.

 

However, I don't see Valve's current solution faring well, for a number of reasons already discussed - starting with how their model doesn't really give me any security as a client, which makes me disinclined to spend money. But that doesn't mean the very idea of monetizing mods is bad, if you ask me. Ultimately, either the market for paid mods will self-regulate, or Valve will crack down and instill some rigor, or the whole idea will die down quietly while Valve pretends it never happened. In the first two cases, good things can come out of it, like bigger mods with better support and production values. In the latter case, we're back to square one, maybe a bit more vitriolic towards each other, but it's not like Skyrim's modding community isn't full of vitriol already, isn't it?

 

Dunno how many people here are into pen and paper roleplaying, but a similar thing happened a while back with D&D when they went with the Open Gaming License, which allowed people to create and sell their own D&D-based materials, provided they followed a set of rules and stayed away from certain copyrighted IPs. At first, the market was literally flooded with third party content - some of it was good, most of it was crap, to the point where it actually damaged the brand. But over time, the crap died down, and several providers of quality content remained, to the benefit of not just D&D, but the whole industry. So yeah, I'm willing to give this model a chance.

To that I answer : 27 dollars bundle, 17 swords, 2 armors and a blue rabbit unicorn. 

 

If say, Interesting NPCs was finished and became available today, and was like 5 dollars, I'd probably pay. Tons of voice actor, quality writing, amazing quest, they deserve to be paid, honestly. 

Same for Faalskar, for Wyrmtooth, for Frostfall. Heck I'd pay for Vilja. But holy balls, seeing a price tag on meshes ?!! I mean come on. 

 

What I would love for mods such as the ones I mentioned are personal blogs, with ads, and the knowledge that authors win as much as popular youtubers. Or paid mods, without the ads then, on their personal blogs.

 

Instead we get a slave ship, where Valve is the captain, Bethesda the second in command and the slave modders rowing away, most of them crappy rowers too, with a few good honest ones in the lot but still rowing slaves. Screw that. 

nutluck

nutluck

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

I get what you're saying, but it's kind of unfair to hold modders to a higher standard than Bethesda. :P

 

Lol, but maybe that's my problem. I do hold that much standard and more for Bethesda and any other corporate game developer. 

 

But so far their reaction is thus

 

 

 

 

Plus, you know, in a way I'm with nutluck, It's not about the money.

 

It's the naughty of turning a mod-by-definition into uneditable DLC, which you paid for.. which can be inevitably broken like a lot of DLC.  Which can be incompatible with other DLC.

 

In future, companies like Valve would like to see the end of Mod Organizer, Bashed patches, esp merge... TES Edit... Lover's Lab?  

 

Why? because... these things don't make them any money.

 

It's just my perspective. Maybe it's not like that at all. But if it is, well then, these Mod creators don't seem to be worried about supporting that. 

 

Yeah I am less concerned with this being a issue for a older game like Skyrim since it is done. There will be no new updates. For a newer game like ES6 or FO4 etc, I am far far more concerned about that.

 

Some of my concerns are

1) What happens if a great mod comes out, reasonable price. You buy it but then the company updates the game and the update breaks the mod and the mod author decides, they don't want to fix it. Then you suddenly spent money on a mod that no longer works.

2) Or you buy several mods only to find out two of them conflict and you can't use them both. Granted this is covered partially under the short time you have to get a refund, but what if at first they both work but later one or both mods get updated and then won't work together.

 

These are my bigger issues more than just the money. Basicially the lack of any real quality control currently in place or protection for the consumer. 

Coopervane

Coopervane

Posted
Posted

Let me reiterate a point:

 

 

Trying to compare this situation with The Sims or SecondLife is not really apt, because those games actually work without mods, and the mods are just optional extras.

 

This is not true of Bethesda's games, they do not work, they do not get the patches they so desperately need. The only people who have ever fixed them are the modders, the various mem-fixes, unofficial-patches, script-extenders and so forth. These are not optional extras, you need this stuff if you don't want the game to crash every 30 minutes and every second quest to break on you.

 

 

I admittedly do not like the idea of selling mods, but wether or not we should find it distasteful or greedy, or if we should feel the opposite, that it might be good to motivate big modding teams to make even bigger mods, i don't really think is the big question before us.

 

To me, the real problem here is that Bethesda has a trackrecord a mile long of releasing broken games and barely lifting a finger to patch out even game-stopping bugs and crashes. Mods are all we've got to get these games running.

 

If these mods start going behind the paywall, then we're not talking about shopping for optional extras anymore, and the whole thing suddenly looks even uglier to me, very much so..

afa

afa

Posted
Posted

Well. See this coming when they had the sudden update to skyrim mod support a while back.

Now I anticipate stuff getting pull off nexus and appear on steam for a price.

 

This however might be just the tip of the iceberg

 

The next question becomes if steam is the only "sanctioned" place to get mods from here on out for later Fallout and TES titles giving Valve/Bethesda total control over distribution of mods.

Wonder if/what punches they will pull with the CK considering Skyrim CK was release somewhat later than the game.

Besides the money aspect there's also the "acceptable" content aspect of it if mods can only show up on steam. Which probably the end of the world scenario for an adult mod site like LL.

 

I honestly don't see them going back on this decision of a mod store front. It is just a matter of if it'll be the ONLY place to get mods and how much momentum it'll have that will determine how many modders decide to jump on board.

nutluck

nutluck

Posted
Posted

 

To that I answer : 27 dollars bundle, 17 swords, 2 armors and a blue rabbit unicorn. 

 

If say, Interesting NPCs was finished and became available today, and was like 5 dollars, I'd probably pay. Tons of voice actor, quality writing, amazing quest, they deserve to be paid, honestly. 

Same for Faalskar, for Wyrmtooth, for Frostfall. Heck I'd pay for Vilja. But holy balls, seeing a price tag on meshes ?!! I mean come on. 

 

What I would love for mods such as the ones I mentioned are personal blogs, with ads, and the knowledge that authors win as much as popular youtubers. Or paid mods, without the ads then, on their personal blogs.

 

Instead we get a slave ship, where Valve is the captain, Bethesda the second in command and the slave modders rowing away, most of them crappy rowers too, with a few good honest ones in the lot but still rowing slaves. Screw that. 

 

Yeah this I agree with, for quality mods reasonably priced I have no issues. This is why I could see this being good or bad. If we get high quality mods like Faalskar etc for reasonable prices and get more of them. Great. My and I think many peoples fears is many mods go behind a pay wall or mod authors charge to much. The price point of mods will be a huge factor. 5 dollars for wet and cold? no, 1 dollar for wet and cold and yeah I would likely pay it.

 

Though I agree with most the mod authors should get more. Me I would like to see a price break down of something like this valve 10%, Beth 25%, mod author 65%. I would be a lot more ok with that.

Redflyingmonkey

Redflyingmonkey

Posted
Posted

 

Load of bull. Started snickering at the comparison between modders and youtubers. Do I pay 5 fucking dollars to watch that jackass Norwegian kid pewdiepie spit on his mic for half an hour ? No. Hence no comparison here.

It wasn't meant to be an exact parallel in that sense. It was meant to point out that people said "you shouldn't get paid for making videos, it's just a hobby" and now people are saying "you shouldn't get paid for making mods, it's just a hobby".

 

Furthermore I'm sorry what ? Did that guy say paid mods would attract more talented modders ?

It will, at least in theory. He even gave an example of that already happening. People can put more time into something they're getting paid for. People better at things like to get paid for them. If people who are better at things can get paid for modding, they might be modding instead of doing something else.

 

And yeah modders should be paid for their work. At least if I have to pay for something I want, let the money go to the dude who makes it, not to Valve for fuck sake.

This was a major point made by the video you called a "load of bull".

 

1/That's how I understood it. As something he said to defend his own income, making a comparison. I found it odd to compare the two as he did not mention the fact that he's paid by youtube while mods are paid by users. If mods were paid by Bethesda, I'd understand that point. He instead is acting like both are the exact same thing, while never explaining that the real point behind people's complaining is that they're the ones who are going to pay, not just that modding is a "holy hobby". 

 

2/That'd be grand if they were the ones who got paid and not Valve. It'll be impossible with that amount to live with modding. Hence the money will not help much in the modding department. Hence I have no idea how it's supposed to magically improve the quality of mods. Will voice actors have a clearer voice with 2 dollars a month ? Will scripts be cleaner ? Will quests be better written ?? 

 

3/ 'Load of bull' may have been pushed, okay. Maybe I was a bit hyperventilating when I wrote that (not really) or I just like the sentence. Load of bull does sound sexy. Plus I did not finish the video, which does not help. "Load of bull". Mmmmmh

 

To that I answer : 27 dollars bundle, 17 swords, 2 armors and a blue rabbit unicorn.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429226887

lindazana

lindazana

Posted
Posted

Start gathering and saving all mods you like to a folder/external hard-drive. Make your "end of modding" packages in preparation of the incoming shit storm. 

 

...Onto a more series, and really mean and evil note, if ANY of these paid for mods don't have a modder-written "do not distribute blah-blah-blah" bit on their mod, does that mean it can be bought and redistributed for free without it being pirating? I feel the best bet to stop this before it goes mad is to make it pointless and a waste of time to bother putting them up for sale, with dozens of sites able to offer them for free mere hours after upload. ...I am rather worried this will make our overseas modding buddies even more distant from us, and make more sites close access to westerners, so they can pass out the pirated mods without fear of a whistleblower.

 

EDIT: ALL MODDERS HERE, make sure to immediately label your mods and assets as free to use only for non-profit content. Even the smallest little thing.

gooberboy9999

gooberboy9999

Posted
Posted

 

The funniest part is that people genuinely think that this is even remotely feasible.  I hope valve enjoys the 9,999 e-mails per day they're going to get about broken mods that people paid for and are now mad about because they don't work, or because those mods require 10 other mods that require 15 other mods that you can't even get on the steam workshop, that are a lot harder to install than clicking 'subscribe here.'

 

 

Which brings up a good point. What if a really huge developed mod that cost money relies on some content from a smaller mod that doesn't make any kind of cash? Or from an author that uploads modders resource. What then? Is that person going to get a percentage?

 

 

It's already happening.  The person who made http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13486/?(winter is coming - cloaks) a mod that both Wet & Cold and Frostfall use said no one has permission to use his mod for monetary gain.

 

This is only the beginning.

bike

bike

Posted
Posted

 

 

The funniest part is that people genuinely think that this is even remotely feasible.  I hope valve enjoys the 9,999 e-mails per day they're going to get about broken mods that people paid for and are now mad about because they don't work, or because those mods require 10 other mods that require 15 other mods that you can't even get on the steam workshop, that are a lot harder to install than clicking 'subscribe here.'

 

 

Which brings up a good point. What if a really huge developed mod that cost money relies on some content from a smaller mod that doesn't make any kind of cash? Or from an author that uploads modders resource. What then? Is that person going to get a percentage?

 

 

It's already happening.  The person who made http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13486/?(winter is coming - cloaks) a mod that both Wet & Cold and Frostfall use said no one has permission to use his mod for monetary gain.

 

This is only the beginning.

 

 

http://imgur.com/a/PEmVW

 

According to Valve it's no problem to rip off other modders that provide their tools for free. As you said, this is only the beginning.

badbat111

badbat111

Posted
Posted

You can say whatever you want, but I can finally have horse genitals in high resolution for less than 100$!

 

I can't wait for the guy who made Falskaar or other "overrated" people who think the world owes them something to ask crazy shit for their mods as if they made a completely new game.

 

 

 
£66.99
not-yet.png?v=1
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
 
Per page: 9 18 30
 
67 quid for a horse cock he can shove his horse cock up his ass overpriced for a mod
gooberboy9999

gooberboy9999

Posted
Posted

 

According to Valve it's no problem to rip off other modders that provide their tools for free. As you said, this is only the beginning.

 

 

That's blatantly lying.  I don't feel bad for anyone who believed Valve, Chesko should have known better.  In fact, I'm sure he did.  He just let his greed overpower his common sense (if he had any).  It's never been okay to steal someone's work and charge money for it.

windpl

windpl

Posted
Posted
 
fore06151 iconGames.png 2 godz. temu 
Devon
:
Hey Chesko, I wonder whether you have any permission from Fores New Idles in Skyrim to use his assets in your mod that you charge money for?

 

 


No, he has not.

And making money with mods is totally against my attitude. It's the end of a working and inventive modding community.

fore

 

 

 

Userper

Userper

Posted
Posted

 

You can say whatever you want, but I can finally have horse genitals in high resolution for less than 100$!

 

I can't wait for the guy who made Falskaar or other "overrated" people who think the world owes them something to ask crazy shit for their mods as if they made a completely new game.

 

 

 
£66.99
not-yet.png?v=1
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
 
Per page: 9 18 30
 
67 quid for a horse cock he can shove his horse cock up his ass overpriced for a mod

 

 

LOL just spat my juice all over the floor.

windu190

windu190

Posted
Posted

At the very least the mods with a price tag should be held to the exact same standarts as dlc. 

 

1 There would have to be quality reasurance. The mods would have to be screened before they are put up for sale, to see if they actually work as advertised. 

2. ALL mods have to be able to work together. There is no such thing as "mod conflicts" or "incompatibilities" in the world of dlc's. If I buy 10.000 mods, they would ALL have to work    seamlessly together. Just like dlc's do. 

3. Some complex mods require additional tasks to make them work, it isn't always just a matter of pushing a button that says "install". (See FNIS for example). However the steam workshop does not posses the facilities for this, therefore they will have to be added, basically a build in Mod Organizer. 

 

And lets face it people, NONE of the above is going to happen. This is a disaster waiting to happen, mods are a completely different animal than dlc's. You can't just sell tons of user created content, none of it created to work together, none of it originally designed to be in the game and all of it overseen by hundreds, maybe thousands if independent modders who probably don't interact and expect this to end well. 

lindazana

lindazana

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

The funniest part is that people genuinely think that this is even remotely feasible.  I hope valve enjoys the 9,999 e-mails per day they're going to get about broken mods that people paid for and are now mad about because they don't work, or because those mods require 10 other mods that require 15 other mods that you can't even get on the steam workshop, that are a lot harder to install than clicking 'subscribe here.'

 

 

Which brings up a good point. What if a really huge developed mod that cost money relies on some content from a smaller mod that doesn't make any kind of cash? Or from an author that uploads modders resource. What then? Is that person going to get a percentage?

 

 

It's already happening.  The person who made http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13486/?(winter is coming - cloaks) a mod that both Wet & Cold and Frostfall use said no one has permission to use his mod for monetary gain.

 

This is only the beginning.

 

 

http://imgur.com/a/PEmVW

 

According to Valve it's no problem to rip off other modders that provide their tools for free. As you said, this is only the beginning.

 

 

Can't he at least say mods that directly use his engine can't be sold? IE, if it can't work at all without it, they can't sell it?

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