A little warning to mod creators of non adult mods....

[Alploochra]

1- How has "skse is under GNU" been taken care off, exactly ?

2- Skyrim's EULA says all mod content is Bethesda's property. Modders being paid a cut are now on Bethesda's payroll, then, legally.  Does that not mean they are then obligated to support and quality control and so on as long as Bethesda officially supports the game ?

[Kendo 2]

Will we even HAVE the paid Steam mods on our PCs? Or will they be downloads that mysteriously disappear a few days after we bought them?

I can see mods being coded like the Steam files for Batman/SaintRow/Assassin'sCreed and the downloader not really owning what he bought.  I can also see playing in off-line mode going the way of the dodo along with being forced to upload esps to Steam instead of free sites like Nexus or here.

[maybenexttime]

 

I also think is more of a test and get some extra cash for it. I don't expect paid mods to be a thing for years to come. 

 

Hope it won't. Seeing Chesko on there really made me more disappointed and angry that I thought I'd be about anything related to games. And if a respected and talented modder like Chesko goes and does something like this, who's to say others of the same talent won't do it too ? 

 

 

Well I am thinking from his point of view (I don't necessarily support it), perhaps he is trying to make modding for a living.

 

Esp since after Cheski's kickstarter fiasco, he prob really wants to profit and make a living off mods. 

 

But than someone will make a free version and everyone will download that instead.

[Redflyingmonkey]

 

 

Well I am thinking from his point of view (I don't necessarily support it), perhaps he is trying to make modding for a living.

 

Esp since after Cheski's kickstarter fiasco, he prob really wants to profit and make a living off mods. 

 

But than someone will make a free version and everyone will download that instead.

 

 

 

Well that sucks balls. Always thought modding was sort of a sacred ground where invisible rules existed to keep capitalism at bay and that we had a real community. It's all going to shit as Varric says. 

[Kargrin]

Remember this  E3 will have a Bethesda presentation, I swear to god, if they plan to release Fallout 4 or whatever with paid mods....

[isee]

Going past this initial disaster I'm more worried about future bethesda games. In order to combat piracy for mods in games like fallout 4 you can be sure that bethesda will start encrypting and adding in built security measures. (This is just a guess and they might not after all) but if they do it will be near impossible or even illegal to create mods not on the workshop in order to 'protect' assets which will make modding there games in the future even more difficult for those who would do this for free (or do not abide by the workshops eula) or want to stay off the workshop. I'm completely with  the idea of supporting modders but the way bethesda is going will most likely lead to extreme outrage and restrictions going forward.

[bjornk]

The most important question is, what will you do if the next Steam update, in order to establish a DRM-like system for paid mods, prevents you from running the game with your current mod setup? Hmm, better start looking for a pirated version that doesn't require Steam.

[Vaelorian]

At first I thought this was breaking Bethesda's own EULA. Then I read that they're getting a cut.

 

And now all I can do is sit here, in my room, shaking my head and thinking: Who thought this was a good idea?

 

Because, let me tell you, the "Triple-A" industry has already eroded any kind of faith I had in it, and that includes Bethesda. The only thing this will do is cause more piracy, suspicion and loss of sales.

 

Because I do not see Skyrim and Oblivion as games; they are, to me, platforms that allow me to install mods and have barely no entertainment value on their own.

I buy them to acknowledge the hard work put into the engines and locations which I can later enhance with my own time, doing what I want.

 

That desire to support disappears instantly when they start charging for the mods too.

 

And yes, I know that stating outright "I will not purchase any future games made by Bethesda unless they re-think their business practices" might get me a warning or a ban because it "encourages piracy" - but let's be honest here, we're all thinking it.

In an age where people can have several hundred outfit mods compressed into one, and run several dozen mods besides, the total cost for a modded Skyrim install can be somewhere in the thousands if each of those costs even 5$ - out of which the mod author will see only 1.25$ if what was stated previously is correct (and I've no reason to believe otherwise).

 

And, you know, at that point I'd rather just buy 3D models instead, because they're made of higher quality and don't need bug-fixing like the original Skyrim release did. They don't have progressively more savegame data as you come across nirnroots and reanimate corpses and whatnot.

 

Now, I will finish my little rant here with a question that should probably sicken you all:

What if bug-fixing mods (like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch) start charging for money?

 

Because this is what the industry is coming to, ladies and gentlemen.

[Guest endgameaddiction]

At first I thought this was breaking Bethesda's own EULA. Then I read that they're getting a cut.

 

And now all I can do is sit here, in my room, shaking my head and thinking: Who thought this was a good idea?

 

Because, let me tell you, the "Triple-A" industry has already eroded any kind of faith I had in it, and that includes Bethesda. The only thing this will do is cause more piracy, suspicion and loss of sales.

 

 

If you have VGU go under members and look me up. I guess the jokes on them. anyways...

 

Steam isn't happy enough making money off of people with their sales when the fact is Valve promotes mods on their site for the mere fact that it helps grab revenue. Bethesda isn't happy enough making money off us selling us mediocre and broken games by the standards, broken released patches and so on.

 

If anything, Bethesda should be paying us for fixing their fucking game, promoting it with mods as is and enticing others to join in because their games would have been shelved years ago if it wasn't for modders. Just because GECK and CK exist doesn't mean the game cannot be modded.

[Kendo 2]

Another problem with this 'mods cost money' scam is modders are not professionals and the things they make are after-market addons not officially supported by Bethesda.  The one key factor the suits that made this decision are obviously not aware of is that mods conflict and can break the game.  Before mods were the new cash cow for Bethesda is was a install-at-your-own-risk affair.  If they are charging for mods and they get 75% of the profit then they just assumed responsibility for mods working or not.  If I buy something off of Steam it is a PRODUCT they sold to me and they are the ones who bear burden for fixing anything that fucks up, if a product I bought from them jacks my game all to hell.

And modders are not devs or professionals.  They are guys and girls just like we are.  They are FANS of a game but now they are defacto contracted employees of Steam/Bethesda since those companies are getting paid for the work these modders do.  That makes them liable for anything that might go wrong.

And since mods are now a Steam/Bethesda product there must be quality control placed on paid mods just like on the games they are based on.  If there is enough stink, Bethesda will rethink this 'modders can make us money' bullshit they came up with.

 

And looking a Chesko's post in full, he's full of shit if he thinks he's going to be able to skate by with 'you can't make demands on me'.  He's going to be all kinds of butthurt when downloaders insist on unconditional quality support for a product they paid MONEY FOR.  He just flushed being a temperamental modder down the toilet in favor of getting a paycheck.  If there is any justice, he'll get slammed with complaints and tech support requests that turns his part-time get some quick cash move into a full-time fucking headache of endless support questions and complaints from his new found customers.

[Coopervane]

And this bullshit from Chesko

"the introduction of monetary support does not justify additional demands"

Well...YEAH, it does.  Yesterday your mods were free.  Today they are $19.95.  For twenty bucks you had better be shitting us diamond Tiffany cufflinks.  In other words; fucking flawless.

 

Precisely.

 

 

The moment you're charging money for something, you're officially selling a product, and will be subject to the scrutiny that goes with it.

 

You are no longer a hobbyist, it's nolonger a matter of "the person made it for themselves and was nice enough to share it with us". No, not even close, you are at this point a freelance developer creating paid DLC, it's a product for sale, and it both should be and will be held to the standard of other paid for products.

 

 

(Oh, and i don't mean "you" as in you Kendo, but as in adressing everyone. Felt i should make that clear just in case.)

 

 

 

I do wonder where this will lead Bethesda though, because here's the thing.. i don't trust you Bethesda, you have shown me time and time again that you cannot be trusted to bring me a working product. Each and every one of your games, aswell your expansions, have been horribly broken. Nor have you impressed us with your patching efforts, quite the opposite infact..

 

What saves the day for you there Bethesda is the modding community, they are the ones fixing your games, and knowing that the modders will get it up a running is why i can still get onboard with buying your broken and lazily ported products (it's incredibly sad that i have to say that, but yeah, that's the truth of it).

 

 

But now, i'm looking at a potential future where these essential game-fixers may become locked behind a paywall. Essentially, a future in which i may have to go to a third party and buy patches.. woah there.. just say that out loud and think about that for a second: Paying for patches.

 

 

Yeah, no, no no no no, you'd better belive i'm not getting FO4 on launch. I'm going to wait it out and see how it all pans out, because i do not want to spend 60 Euro's on a broken husk of a game only to be asked by third parties for even more money to fix it.

 

 

You had a good deal going for you here Bethesda, one in which you got to get away with beeing lazy and kinda crap, because others would step up to bail you out for the love and potential of the game alone. And now you want to gamble with it? Err, you lads didn't really think this the whole way through, did you now.. 

[Chaos63]

This will be a replay of what happened to Sims modding a few years ago.

Modders will start charging for mods and there will be groups of people who will form slush funds to buy those mods.  They will then redistribute them to everyone free of charge, much to the chagrin of the Modding for Money crowd and the entities/people who support them.  I have little sympathy and zero respect for anyone who charges money for a mod.  And if this plays out like I think it will, the modders charging for content will get flustered and end up quitting the scene altogether...and good riddance.

 

The Sims debacle also ended up starting very numerous copyright brawls among the community, especially when people started "pirating"(fucking lol) hair and cloth mods.

This might be entertaining.

 

[Kaz Aanh]

It seems now that Nexus will be our saviour.

 

Hated , insulted but now they are the last bastion of our hope to stop this madness.

[Userper]

Lol never though I would hear someone on LL say that

[Kendo 2]

Now, I will finish my little rant here with a question that should probably sicken you all:

What if bug-fixing mods (like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch) start charging for money?

One of two things:

Bethesderp won't allow overhaul patches to be uploaded OR they won't do anything until people start raising hell over having to pay for a player-made patch to fix things that should have worked to begin with.

 

Imagine the customer backlash they would get if people had to pay for the Skyrim Update pack or the official patches to fix Dawnguard or Dragonborn.  But I can see Bethesda doing just that, charging for content to fix things that should have been done right the first time.  There is no way Todd Howard is going to back off of his contempt for PC gaming, or his insistence on rushing games out of development and into sales.  And the Beth devs certainly aren't going to step up their game since they have a company culture of doing things half-assed and getting away with it.  It has been that way since 2007.

[Guest endgameaddiction]

It seems now that Nexus will be our saviour.

 

Hated , insulted but now they are the last bastion of our hope to stop this madness.

 

LL is our savior, not Nexus. Think about that. If big modders over at Nexus are switching sides, LL members aren't because pornified mods are not going to be sold, ever.

 

This place and other communities such as VGU with be the hope of the mod scene for Beth games. It wouldn't surprise me if more non adult mods were distributed over here.

 

All it's going to do is increase piracy and I wouldn't be surprised Valve gets DDOS and a large amount of mods are snatched and redistributed in private communities. I don't care how much money Valve has in their protection. Nothing on the internet is safe.

[cutcut]

Tons of shitty "DLC" incoming... Btw, that armor which you can only get by using cheats cracked me up...

[Jmathers]

i have mixed fellings about it.

 

i guess, i'll consider the mods you have to pay for as freelance DLC submissions. (where i can ask the mod owner to fix something)

rather then a mod where the owner can turn around and say like it or lump it.

 

but ya, as other people have stated, you'll have to watch it regularly, if your a mod designer, for your own mods, to prevent thievery.

 

 

[bjornk]

Steam has been known to sell broken and/or unpatched games, what makes you think that they'll care for broken mods? They won't. All they (Valve & Bethesda) want is to make some money out of modders' ass, as if they haven't already made enough.

[rance]

I'd be OK with this if only it meant that Besthesda was going to keep updating Skyrim...

... A shame they won't.

[cutcut]

And I'll be okay with this if Bethesda, creators of SKSE, and authors of stollen assets etc. from other games the mod uses will get money from payment too...

[Imperfection]

Most if not all Beth games are riddled with game breaking bugs out of the box since day one. The vast majority of mods start out as fixing these bugs and similair nusance issues. Now Beth want you to pay a modder to fix these and now Beth gets a huge cut instead of actually fixing the product themsleves, they will just depend on modders to fix for them as they do now, making lazy Beth even more lazy and the out of the box experience even crappier.

Seems like this would just in incentivize Beth to put out broken game to start with, something they have mastered over the years.

[Serithi]

Now, i'm not going to take a definitive side either way yet since this is still early days, i'm waiting to see how this pans out.

 

Having said that, i do want to make something clear: You can in fact get a full refund on a mod within 24 hours of your purchase. So you can download it, test it, and if it's not up to snuff you can get a refund.

 

I will also say that that's exactly why this is going to fail. You can buy the mod, make a copy of it, and then get a refund, and you still have your copy. Unless the Workshop keeps downloaded mods in a cloud and only pops stuff in when you play and pops it back out when done, this will die out in record time, because if the files are actually there on the hard drive you can do whatever and there's nothing Steam can do to stop it, short of validating your .esp's and .esm's whenever you play to make sure it's not taken from the workshop. And even then, even i could fiddle with it in the CK enough to change it so it doesn't match up, and i'm still learning how to use it.

 

I don't condone DRM, nor do i necessarily condone piracy, but i am just saying this is going to fail hard the way it's currently set up. I'm a self-proclaimed dumbass about a lot of stuff in life and even i'm seeing this extremely major weakness, i have to wonder how the hell Valve missed it.

[Redflyingmonkey]

Another problem with this 'mods cost money' scam is modders are not professionals and the things they make are after-market addons not officially supported by Bethesda.  The one key factor the suits that made this decision are obviously not aware of is that mods conflict and can break the game.  Before mods were the new cash cow for Bethesda is was a install-at-your-own-risk affair.  If they are charging for mods and they get 75% of the profit then they just assumed responsibility for mods working or not.  If I buy something off of Steam it is a PRODUCT they sold to me and they are the ones who bear burden for fixing anything that fucks up, if a product I bought from them jacks my game all to hell.

And modders are not devs or professionals.  They are guys and girls just like we are.  They are FANS of a game but now they are defacto contracted employees of Steam/Bethesda since those companies are getting paid for the work these modders do.  That makes them liable for anything that might go wrong.

And since mods are now a Steam/Bethesda product there must be quality control placed on paid mods just like on the games they are based on.  If there is enough stink, Bethesda will rethink this 'modders can make us money' bullshit they came up with.

 

And looking a Chesko's post in full, he's full of shit if he thinks he's going to be able to skate by with 'you can't make demands on me'.  He's going to be all kinds of butthurt when downloaders insist on unconditional quality support for a product they paid MONEY FOR.  He just flushed being a temperamental modder down the toilet in favor of getting a paycheck.  If there is any justice, he'll get slammed with complaints and tech support requests that turns his part-time get some quick cash move into a full-time fucking headache of endless support questions and complaints from his new found customers.

Exactly what I was trying to tell Shezrie on Steam. He told me he was really in need of money and I couldn't just tell him to find a job instead of shitting on his favorite hobby like this by dirtying it with consumerism and business. 

 

When your hobby becomes a business it's not a hobby anymore. And when you do shit you were passionate about for money, well EA happens. It's not even a random premonition, it's how the game industry works. Modding was made to be something made by fans for fans, now I have no idea what is happening but selling DLCs made by fans for fans is just plain wrong. Funniest thing is Nexus, sheepishly nodding in approval in front of everything they worked against (kind of). 

[badbat111]

you watch some little shit put loverslab mods on it and call it there own