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A little warning to mod creators of non adult mods....

LordNecris

By LordNecris,
in General Discussion

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nutluck

nutluck

Posted
Posted

For me it depends on how it goes. It can be good or bad. The good is you could see more teams of modders making huge high quality mods. the bad is modders might get greedy and everything goes up behind pay for way to much. I am in a wait and see for now mood.

 

But to clear up a few things others said.

Chesko in his open letter said he will release all of his mods for free, but will have a 30-90 day pay only period. So for example Frostfall 3.0 will be pay only for 30-90 days then he will release it for free. I personally don't have a problem with that.

 

Wet and Cold - while the recommend cost is 5 dollars if you look it is under a pay what you want and you can choose how much you pay. You can pay as little as 1 dollar for it.

 

I am not saying that is good or bad, only making sure all the facts are out there in this discussion.

Kendo 2

Kendo 2

Posted
Posted

I bet you FO4 GECK and future Beth games that use a hard coded program for mod developing will cost money.

And you'll have to logged into Steam in real time to use it.

 

Wet and Cold - while the recommend cost is 5 dollars if you look it is under a pay what you want and you can choose how much you pay. You can pay as little as 1 dollar for it.

Wet and Cold was free last week.  Now it's five bucks.  Did he update it?  Improve it?  Nope.  Same mod.  Now five bucks.

 

Yeah, fuck him.

 

A She-Wolf

A She-Wolf

Posted
Posted

 

The moment you're charging money for something, you're officially selling a product, and will be subject to the scrutiny that goes with it.

 

You are no longer a hobbyist, it's nolonger a matter of "the person made it for themselves and was nice enough to share it with us". No, not even close, you are at this point a freelance developer creating paid DLC, it's a product for sale, and it both should be and will be held to the standard of other paid for products. 

 

 

 

Yeah, and I think it's going to be pretty entertaining to see certain mod creators deal with that exact type of scrutiny, given their reputation's attitude toward criticism and bug-reports. 

 

I'm guessing the system of "if it's only reproducible 40% of the time, then it's not enough of a problem to worry about. Working as intended. Uninstall if you don't like." support won't fly as well for you if you've sold your only-working-60%-of-the-time-mod for five bucks a head.

hafertaler

hafertaler

Posted
Posted

I'm not happy about this, but all I can do is - and I will, believe me - not buy a single mod... ever ... in my entire life.

 

I'm really in the mood to make a Follower mod called "Valbe, the destroyer of hobbies and greediest being on earth", FULLY VOICED! With one line of dialogue "I am greedy and here to ruin your hobby.... bitch!"

 

And then I put it up for sale for 20 bucks, since that stuff is good shit and worth more than the game itself Oo

 

edit: I think the most interesting part in TBs video was, that he read a part from the faq that basically said: if the mod is broken or doesn't work, tough shit, "ask politely" for a fix.... wow, the nerve.

nutluck

nutluck

Posted
Posted

 

Wet and Cold - while the recommend cost is 5 dollars if you look it is under a pay what you want and you can choose how much you pay. You can pay as little as 1 dollar for it.

Wet and Cold was free last week.  Now it's five bucks.  Did he update it?  Improve it?  Nope.  Same mod.  Now five bucks.

 

Yeah, fuck him.

 

Yeah I am not saying he isn't charging, only saying it is not 5 bucks. You can choose to pay as little as 1 dollar is all I am saying. I am not saying anyone should not be angry I was only pointing out the price being quoted is not the price you have to pay if you want it.

zippy57

zippy57

Posted
Posted

 

No, not even close, you are at this point a freelance developer creating paid DLC, it's a product for sale, and it both should be and will be held to the standard of other paid for products.

I'm guessing the system of "if it's only reproducible 40% of the time, then it's not enough of a problem to worry about. Working as intended. Uninstall if you don't like." support won't fly as well for you if you've sold your only-working-60%-of-the-time-mod for five bucks a head.

 

I get what you're saying, but it's kind of unfair to hold modders to a higher standard than Bethesda. :P
nutluck

nutluck

Posted
Posted

For me personally my bigger concern is less about the money and more about you can only install the mods with the workshop. I have never used the workshop so maybe I am misinformed. But my understanding is if you get a mod on the workshop you can only install it with the workshop and you can't use other mod tools like NMM or MO which for me is a far bigger deal breaker. Though I admit I could totally be wrong about this.

zippy57

zippy57

Posted
Posted

As far as I'm aware they didn't change the actual Skyrim engine, which means that pay mods still work like free ones in terms of content delivery. So yes, you can remove the mod from the data folder and throw it MO or another manager like any other mod. And you can also do that and then ask for the refund and still have the mod without having paid for it.

 

Considering the reaction, I have a suspicion that latter one is going to happen quite a bit with users who are actually aware of how to manually manage mods.

nutluck

nutluck

Posted
Posted

As far as I'm aware they didn't change the actual Skyrim engine, which means that pay mods still work like free ones in terms of content delivery. So yes, you can remove the mod from the data folder and throw it MO or another manager like any other mod. And you can also do that and then ask for the refund and still have the mod without having paid for it.

 

Considering the reaction, I have a suspicion that latter one is going to happen quite a bit with users who are actually aware of how to manually manage mods.

 

Ok thanks that is one of my biggest concerns then taken care of. I still have concerns about this but that was a major one for me.

zippy57

zippy57

Posted
Posted

I don't know about other games with workshop support, but for Bethesda that would be a death sentence. People only continue to put up with Bethesda's non-existent quality control because of modding. This has already put a dent in people's opinion about them. If Bethesda were to release a game with modding locked up in that sort of manner, they'd probably be bankrupt not long after.

nutluck

nutluck

Posted
Posted

 

If that happens I will be a very unhappy camper.

 

Guess we are in a wait and see or at least I am.

Kaz Aanh

Kaz Aanh

Posted
Posted

Valve=EA

 

Sorry but EA is known as a franchise destroyer.

 

SimCity

Battlefield

DeadSpace

Command&Conquer

Ultima

Ground Wars Battlefield 3

 

Valve has a long way to become like them.

 

 

I recall how Todd was saying about how he would love to see PC mods on consoles. I guess its a first step for them to bring mods legally to the console fanbase , and earn that way lots of money from it. (i can see that coming in the TES6 or F4 )

 

PC players that were hard working years to fix Bethesda buggy and messy game got fuged, right in the anus without vaseline.

Arethiel

Arethiel

Posted
Posted

Fuck this. If you charge for your mods, I don't want them.  You're supposed to be a modder because you enjoy it, because you want to not because you want to do it as a career or make money from it. 

Edit: Also as an FYI, even if there were DRM for Steam Paid Mods, someone would crack it no problem.

Guest endgameaddiction

Guest endgameaddiction

Posted
Posted

 

I bet you FO4 GECK and future Beth games that use a hard coded program for mod developing will cost money.

And you'll have to logged into Steam in real time to use it.

 

 

And while logged on STEAM running GECK or TESVI CK, all of a sudden when you've put time into creating, you cannot permanently save because STEAM site is down and all hell breaks loose. Not to mention the stupidness of GECK and CK that frequently loves to crash alone. SO you have two things to worry about now.

Redflyingmonkey

Redflyingmonkey

Posted
Posted

Totalbiscuit just did a content patch on this issue if anyone would like to give it a watch

 

 

Load of bull. Started snickering at the comparison between modders and youtubers. Do I pay 5 fucking dollars to watch that jackass Norwegian kid pewdiepie spit on his mic for half an hour ? No. Hence no comparison here. If Nexus didn't exist and modders could open blogs with ads and get all their money that way, then yes the analogy would hold. 

 

Furthermore I'm sorry what ? Did that guy say paid mods would attract more talented modders ? Just like how developers create DLCs with original content and exquisite quality am I right ? Paid mods will mean the authors will feel obligated to give support on the mods they sell instead of committing themselves to give it freely. That's about all concerning the quality upgrade. 

 

And yeah modders should be paid for their work. At least if I have to pay for something I want, let the money go to the dude who makes it, not to Valve for fuck sake. 

carnifex

carnifex

Posted
Posted

I actually agree with TotalBiscuit. It's not the idea of having to pay for mods that puts me off, it's the fact that Valve chose to take the easy, greedy way of doing it that ultimately screws over both modders and, most importantly, users.

 

I like free stuff like every other guy, and I am deeply grateful for the wonderful, talented modders who are willing to work long hours on a project and let me use it for free. But at the same time, if those people choose to ask for money for their hard work, I respect their decision. Granted, this doesn't mean I'd be willing to pay for each and every mod I've used with any semblance of regularity, because like most people, if something is free, I'm inclined to take it with little regard to how much I actually need it. But some mods, provided the price was reasonable, I'd buy without much regret.

 

However, I don't see Valve's current solution faring well, for a number of reasons already discussed - starting with how their model doesn't really give me any security as a client, which makes me disinclined to spend money. But that doesn't mean the very idea of monetizing mods is bad, if you ask me. Ultimately, either the market for paid mods will self-regulate, or Valve will crack down and instill some rigor, or the whole idea will die down quietly while Valve pretends it never happened. In the first two cases, good things can come out of it, like bigger mods with better support and production values. In the latter case, we're back to square one, maybe a bit more vitriolic towards each other, but it's not like Skyrim's modding community isn't full of vitriol already, isn't it?

 

Dunno how many people here are into pen and paper roleplaying, but a similar thing happened a while back with D&D when they went with the Open Gaming License, which allowed people to create and sell their own D&D-based materials, provided they followed a set of rules and stayed away from certain copyrighted IPs. At first, the market was literally flooded with third party content - some of it was good, most of it was crap, to the point where it actually damaged the brand. But over time, the crap died down, and several providers of quality content remained, to the benefit of not just D&D, but the whole industry. So yeah, I'm willing to give this model a chance.

 

 

windu190

windu190

Posted
Posted

Well the petition sure is getting a lot of votes. over 6000 in several hours. Just went to the bathroom for a minute, came back, 200 more votes. 

It's probably not going to make a difference, but heck with it we can at least try :P

 

gooberboy9999

gooberboy9999

Posted
Posted

The funniest part is that people genuinely think that this is even remotely feasible.  I hope valve enjoys the 9,999 e-mails per day they're going to get about broken mods that people paid for and are now mad about because they don't work, or because those mods require 10 other mods that require 15 other mods that you can't even get on the steam workshop, that are a lot harder to install than clicking 'subscribe here.'

 

They have no idea what they're getting into.

 

If they really wanted to add a way for people to voluntarily support hardworking modders (which I wholeheartedly support) they would have added a 'donate here' button.  This is a blatant cash grab, any I have no respect for anyone involved in it except possibly the handful of people who will be putting up stupid, half baked mods they threw together in an hour to make money off of complete and utter morons.

nutluck

nutluck

Posted
Posted

I actually agree with TotalBiscuit. It's not the idea of having to pay for mods that puts me off, it's the fact that Valve chose to take the easy, greedy way of doing it that ultimately screws over both modders and, most importantly, users.

 

I like free stuff like every other guy, and I am deeply grateful for the wonderful, talented modders who are willing to work long hours on a project and let me use it for free. But at the same time, if those people choose to ask for money for their hard work, I respect their decision. Granted, this doesn't mean I'd be willing to pay for each and every mod I've used with any semblance of regularity, because like most people, if something is free, I'm inclined to take it with little regard to how much I actually need it. But some mods, provided the price was reasonable, I'd buy without much regret.

 

However, I don't see Valve's current solution faring well, for a number of reasons already discussed - starting with how their model doesn't really give me any security as a client, which makes me disinclined to spend money. But that doesn't mean the very idea of monetizing mods is bad, if you ask me. Ultimately, either the market for paid mods will self-regulate, or Valve will crack down and instill some rigor, or the whole idea will die down quietly while Valve pretends it never happened. In the first two cases, good things can come out of it, like bigger mods with better support and production values. In the latter case, we're back to square one, maybe a bit more vitriolic towards each other, but it's not like Skyrim's modding community isn't full of vitriol already, isn't it?

 

Dunno how many people here are into pen and paper roleplaying, but a similar thing happened a while back with D&D when they went with the Open Gaming License, which allowed people to create and sell their own D&D-based materials, provided they followed a set of rules and stayed away from certain copyrighted IPs. At first, the market was literally flooded with third party content - some of it was good, most of it was crap, to the point where it actually damaged the brand. But over time, the crap died down, and several providers of quality content remained, to the benefit of not just D&D, but the whole industry. So yeah, I'm willing to give this model a chance.

 

I was thinking the same thing about the 3rd party stuff for 3rd and 3.5 edition DnD and the open source stuff. I personally have doubts this will work or be good but I won't dismiss the chance that it could be too. So I am in a wait and see attitude for now.

 

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