Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[EPBD8]

15 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Could you be more specific?

What mod initiates the sex? What animations can it play? Does it play bondage animations?

TDF Aroused Rape, Aroused Creatures, Defeat and Dangerous Nights all play animations fine, including bondage.  I'm trying to consolidate so I can get rid of those and just use DCL's functions, but as I said, it just skips the animation sequence.

[EPBD8]

8 hours ago, EPBD8 said:

TDF Aroused Rape, Aroused Creatures, Defeat and Dangerous Nights all play animations fine, including bondage.  I'm trying to consolidate so I can get rid of those and just use DCL's functions, but as I said, it just skips the animation sequence.

Said fuck it, did a full reinstall.  Seems to be working now.

[kplh]

Small bug I ran into: when I looted a cursed barrel my follower got equipped with armbinder and straitjacket at the same time.

[Nazzzgul666]

18 hours ago, tuxagent7 said:

seem to have never hit by one     that is cool

Pretty sure you have.^^

There are things that block equipping weapons including spells like armbinders, mittens etc and some few (only quest itemsi think) that reduce your mana to zero.

Other items making live harder for mages are vibrating plugs, although not disabling them entirely.

I don't think there are none-quest items that block magic but not common weapons.

[tuxagent7]

1 hour ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Pretty sure you have.^^

There are things that block equipping weapons including spells like armbinders, mittens etc and some few (only quest itemsi think) that reduce your mana to zero.

Other items making live harder for mages are vibrating plugs, although not disabling them entirely.

I don't think there are none-quest items that block magic but not common weapons.

Yes mittens and such but i couldnt use weapons also

 

I am talking about device such as the prisonner silence that nullify magic but doesnt restrict people from using a weapon

 

Thank you nazzgul666 for clarifying that

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, tuxagent7 said:

I am talking about device such as the prisonner silence that nullify magic but doesnt restrict people from using a weapon

The SD+ collar drains all mana, but DCL doesn't have an equivalent.

 

However, some plugs make spell casting pretty much impossible, and nearly always interrupt it.

[tuxagent7]

12 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

The SD+ collar drains all mana, but DCL doesn't have an equivalent.

 

However, some plugs make spell casting pretty much impossible, and nearly always interrupt it.

Yeah a devious slave collar equivalent to the sd one for dcl that would be cool

[Kimy]

On 3/11/2018 at 8:36 AM, Lupine00 said:

The SD+ collar drains all mana, but DCL doesn't have an equivalent.

 

However, some plugs make spell casting pretty much impossible, and nearly always interrupt it.

We changed these plugs in DD 4, because they unilaterally punished mages while not affecting fighter types much. The vibration effect should no longer happen in combat.

[Reesewow]

I'm not personally a huge fan of restraints that specifically block one type of combat over the other, at least not in the general pool of items.  The change to plugs was a really welcome change, since before getting a chastity belt + plugs basically meant you stopped using spells or your character would constantly be stunned doing vibration animations mid-combat.

 

As a separate event that could be enabled/disabled by the player however, those bracelets could be pretty cool.  They certainly look fancy.

[Kimy]

A few words about my Patreon page, as I have been recently updating it, and I wanted to clarify a few things:

 

In the past I have been neglecting my Patreon and I plan to use it a bit more actively in the future, to offer a bit more appreciation to those of you who support me financially. HOWEVER: The basic way I am handling the Patreon will not change. I have always offered my mods for free and this will remain so. You won't see paywalls of any kind, or the kind of "early access" scheme currently getting popular among some modders - where they put the full version behind a paywall, and release a more or less dated version of their work to the public to maintain the illusion that they are still releasing free mods when they - to varying degrees - don't. We all know it happens, including here on LL. To the degree that some modders release misleadingly labeled "Early Access" versions containing less than half of the content offered to paying customers and let paid content trickle to the free mods in bite-sized helpings, just enough to avoid getting banhammered by site operators.

 

Again: I will NOT do this. Never. Ever! What you can download from LL is 100% free and the real deal. No features will be withheld for paying customers, nothing will be artificially delayed. This is my promise!

 

As my mods are free for everyone, I am somewhat limited in options to properly reward patrons for the much-appreciated support they give me, but you might see the occasional patron-only post where I will talk about new and exciting features a bit earlier and give patrons a chance to comment on them and offer suggestions before anyone else can. I think that much is fair in return for people opening their wallet and giving me some of their hard-earned cash, when it's completely voluntary to do so.

 

I hope this addresses all concerns people might have.

 

PS: One thing I feel the urge to point out about the "Early Access" modders is that while people tend to bash them for it, and I personally disagree with the method, it cannot be argued that paywalled Patreons are dramatically more successful than the type of tip jar operated by me and others. I will let the numbers speak for themselves (not meant to pick on the people listed here in any shape or fashion, just to get my point across):

 

Some paywalled Patreons:

Turbodriver (Sims sex framework): Paywalled mod: 3,200+ patrons, $13,000/month

Basemental (Sims drug usage): Paywalled: 2,000+ patrons, (income not visible, but just do some math...it's a lot!)

Mike24: (sex animations): Paywalled: 700+ patrons, $5,500/month

Lupobianco (Sims sex animations): Paywalled: 370 patrons

Komotor (Skyrim sex animations): Paywalled: 272 patrons

Anarcis: (Sims sex animations): Paywalled: 225 patrons, $800/month

Zorak (Sims sex animations): Paywalled: 200 patrons, $800/month

 

Compare that to these not paywalling modders:

Ashal (Skyrim sex framework, LL site operator): Not paywalled: 372 patrons

Princessity (Skyrim and Stellaris mods): Not paywalled: 26 patrons, $160/month

Kimy: (Skyrim/FO4 BDSM mods): Not paywalled: 28 patrons, $120/month

 

Yes, even the person operating LL AND who contributed an extremely popular mod can barely keep up with people who released a few animation packs and put them behind a paywall. Can you blame the Early Access modders for what they do?

 

*shrug*

 

[mangalo]

Can't blame people for wanting to make a living out of their work, but one day when modding has turned to a shitshow, we'll look back and wonder what was different back then.  Maybe the answer will be that some authors were modding by passion and not expecting any outcome of it.

 

Patreon was nice by design but obviously got too popular.  This is why we can't have nice things...

[terrorofmorrowind]

I don't know what the gauntlet is named as but it's one of the special ones you can buy from the dollmaker. Anyway there doesn't seem to be a bodyslide version for it so as a result it clips through the arms when i don't equip a catsuit or anything else of that caliber.

 

edit: nevermind i didn't realize there were new versions of this mod and the ones it depends on. It's possible the gauntlet came frm these ones originally.

[Reesewow]

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

As my mods are free for everyone, I am somewhat limited in options to properly reward patrons for the much-appreciated support they give me, but you might see the occasional patron-only post where I will talk about new and exciting features a bit earlier and give patrons a chance to comment on them and offer suggestions before anyone else can. I think that much is fair in return for people opening their wallet and giving me some of their hard-earned cash, when it's completely voluntary to do so.

Sounds more than reasonable to me, those that support your efforts financial are naturally going likely to be enthusiastic about new features being worked on.  I especially appreciate it when authors are very transparent and upfront about how the intend to use Patreon, so people know what to expect.

[SkyAddiction]

@Kimy

 

Suggestion:

 

In the MCM on the page where the user can include/exclude devices eligible to be equipped, there is the option to include/exclude the pony boots. As a logical extension, it's highly likely that players who aren't at all interested in using pony boots are also uninterested in the other pony/pet play items recently included in DD 4.0.

 

Might this option be changed to "Pony/Pet Play Gear" or some such thing and enable/disable the eligibility of all related devices to be equipped?

[BigOnes69]

@Kimy

I have been around since D and D was a pamphlet. I have seen many such things as to monetize the free gaming community and none have worked. We could see an interruption since the internet can be isolated for small periods of time but another avenue will always open up. Bethesda attempt at this will eventually fail and be another example of that failure. Your example of love for what you do is why this community from paper to internet has always survived and during certain periods surpasses the games themselves. That big picture must be the shining example of accomplishment and promise of the future.

[Lupine00]

16 hours ago, Kimy said:

Yes, even the person operating LL AND who contributed an extremely popular mod can barely keep up with people who released a few animation packs and put them behind a paywall. Can you blame the Early Access modders for what they do?

That is the game business. It's not called a business for nothing. It's always been about work done in secret so the competition can't steal your ideas and technology. It's always been about making money. In the early days, lots of money was made. When free software was really taking off with the GPL, the game business wasn't interested, or they stole that GPL code and used it without credit, because they knew their code would never be examined, and if it was, it would be a hard to prove.

 

It's not just the paywall gang that are standing in the way of free software development though, it's also people making free work and then drawing a box around it and saying, nobody can alter or reuse it; demanding that people seek their permission to reuse or modify an asset, or a script. While often, it may be their intent to stop their work being stolen for profit, it stands in the way of free development too. Mods get frozen in time, and become as much an obstacle as a boon. There may be a moral difference, and a qualatative difference of impact, but it all adds to inertia.

 

The original ethos of the GPL was that anyone could use code from it, without question, as long as they gave credit, and as long as their work was also free.

I think that remains the ideal, if you can get there.

 

Kimy's approach is the fairest we can hope for in terms of Patreon, but DCL and DD remain somewhat encumbered by rules and rights claimed by people who have moved on. Specifically, the DD assets, though there are assets in DCL that can only be used "with permission", and each different group of assets has a different owner who has a different degree of reachability and cooperativeness.

 

Bethesda's attempt to monetize the community only damaged it. Some left in disgust, never to return, others split off when a chance emerged to make some money. Bethesda had something amazing and unexpected on their hands with Skyrim. They shot the beast in the leg, but they didn't kill it. It's still limping along.

 

It should be obvious to them that they can never build a paid-for modding community like the free one. Secretive people, guarding their cash cows, do not work together, they compete. But they can build something, and Valve proved that people will create with the hope of getting paid. It wasn't even worth proving that people will pay for content. They will, and, often, they should. The question is more, what payment is fair, and who should take the lion's share? Bethesda would like to profit from the community, just as they like to profit, generally.

 

It's not like either way of working has an innate superiority, but the two ways of working aren't compatible, they will always be separate from each other. One is a religion, a sacrament for the common good, the other is sorcery, done in secret for personal gain. Either kind of magic may do what you need, and both come at a price, but the currency is different.

[gollum007]

It stinks, but what can you do

 

I've ended up as the primary developer / maintainer for a simulation in a totally different genre after first being one of the better developers for it. (No, I'm not linking, but I'm sure if you google hard enough......)

Over the last 20 years I've been doing this, I've had various offers of donations, patreons etc. which I've always turned down on principle. I started free, and *anything* I ever build will always be free and released under the most lenient licence I can manage.

 

This year, I've spent hundreds of hours and ~£200 out of my own pocket, and this repeats every year. There we go

 

 

On the other hand, the other major player in this genre has zillions of £5 a pop DLC addons available, and whilst I'm sure the developers of these aren't getting rich after Steam et. al have taken their cuts, the quantity and quality of free stuff has declined majorly.

[Kimy]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

DCL and DD remain somewhat encumbered by rules and rights claimed by people who have moved on. Specifically, the DD assets, though there are assets in DCL that can only be used "with permission", and each different group of assets has a different owner who has a different degree of reachability and cooperativeness.

I guess in the end it boils down to the modding community being a bit different than the open source development scene. While the GPL would technically allow forking somebody's project, change one line and redistribute it under your own name, it is heavily frowned upon. The license doesn't prevent this, but the community self-regulates the usage of other people's work and discourages unwanted behavior by shunning it. The modding community is a bit more rough in that regard, so people don't use blanket copyleft licenses as much, but want to retain some control over who can use your work when and for what.

 

While my own code is 100% open-source, I didn't use the GPL either, for exactly that reason. I know for a fact that some people would otherwise have changed some minor things in DD they disagreed with and republished the almost 100% identical fork under their name. In other words, they wanted to steal it. Such behavior doesn't happen in the open source community with any regularity, but it does frequently happen in modding. There is precious little respect for other people's work in parts of the modding community, and the more restrictive permissions set by some, reflect that.

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It should be obvious to them that they can never build a paid-for modding community like the free one. Secretive people, guarding their cash cows, do not work together, they compete. But they can build something, and Valve proved that people will create with the hope of getting paid. It wasn't even worth proving that people will pay for content. They will, and, often, they should. The question is more, what payment is fair, and who should take the lion's share? Bethesda would like to profit from the community, just as they like to profit, generally.

 

One of the biggest problem with the paid-for modding approach (for me) was that Beth and Valve wanted to keep almost all revenue for themselves and give the person who actually did the work almost nothing. It was such a rip-off. Yes, the work of modders by design doesn't run without the base game and thus makes use of their IP. But the same could be said for applications using .NET - and MS doesn't keep 70% of the revenue generated from apps using it either, and no developer would accept it. Beth's approach wasn't meant to allow modders monetize their work, it was meant to allow Beth to monetize the work of modders.

 

Personally? I believe in the open source model. I publish my code with pride and hope it help others to learn coding and/or gets used to make more mods. What I don't subscribe to is the notion of some people that modders have no right whatsoever to expect compensation. They say "Mods are meant to be free" and usually mean "I want you to give me free stuff!" Me? I live in a "give and take" world. If you use mods, give -something- back in return for all the hard work that went into making them. Either contribute to making mods yourself if you can, or throw a few bucks to your favorite modders every now and then, to keep them going. No ecosystem has ever thrived by a few giving and everybody else just taking.

 

Yes, modding almost always starts as a hobby. And for many that's what it remains. And that's 100% fine. But the basic idea of allowing modders to turn their hobby into a full or part-time business is that it would keep them able and motivated to produce more and better mods - which I believe is not a bad thing, no? At least not if it's done right. No, Beth's model wasn't it. But there are -many- companies out there that release GPL software and still make some money. Free software and financial compensation don't rule each other out and the FSF never ceases pointing out that the GPL is totally compatible with making money. At least not in theory. In practice (looking at the numbers I quoted above), people rarely pay unless you force them. Which is a pity, because that's what makes people invent things like paywalled mods. And I think we all agree that this is undesirable.

 

My mods have hundreds of thousands of combined downloads (DCL alone sits at about 300,000). If people would have thrown me a quarter for each download I could comfortably consider this my job and justify working full time on it. The irony is that I am basically doing this anyway, just sans the income. A lot of people don't know that, but the reason why I can put an insane amount of hours into making all these mods for you guys is that I am a stay-at-home mom, so I have more spare time available than a person commuting two hours to an eight hour office job every day. I guess many people picture the average modder as a single person coding some mods after coming home from work, in their evenings or weekends, because that beats sitting alone on a sofa and watching boring TV shows. The fun thing is that I couldn't even do that, because I have a family around at these times, and I can't code naughty stuff with kids running around and peeking over my shoulder and generally preferring me to spend my time with them instead of staring at a screen.

But consider this: I am maybe 2-3 years away from the point when I don't have to taxi kids to and from school, clean up after them, fixing their lunch, and drive them to play-dates and activities. That's the point when most women in my place get more or less subtly asked by their loved ones something like "Honey, have you ever considered looking for a job again?". And even if that doesn't happen, you will inevitably start pondering yourself if you shouldn't put your hard-earned degrees to productive use again instead of watching an empty house. In that case, I still won't be able to keep doing what I am doing on weekends and evenings, but I will lose the window of time I am currently using for making mods. In other words, somebody else will have to write bondage mods for the tens of thousands of people that obviously like them.

 

I don't know, maybe the thought of allowing modders to monetize their work isn't THAT evil?

 

Just food for thought...

[CovertDemon]

Would the heavy and clothing-categorized gold and pink cat suits get matching gloves and hoods in the future?

[Kimy]

9 minutes ago, CovertDemon said:

Would the heavy and clothing-categorized gold and pink cat suits get matching gloves and hoods in the future?

I thought we put these items in DD 4. I need to double check. We added soooo many catsuit variants in version 4!

 

Generally, yes, you can expect DCL to make good use of all these awesome new devices we released with DD4!

[Rogwar002]

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

Either contribute to making mods yourself if you can, or throw a few bucks to your favorite modders every now and then, to keep them going

Few minutes ago was looking into it. Again it is difficult to manage without having a credit card and / or accounts with firms I don´t want to have an account with. Credit card maybe common in the most lands, but still handling is not as easy everywere. Maybe it is here in Germany, maybe I´m to anxious to use it in the world wide web, maybe the way of using currency in the web is still horror to myself...

I´m praying to god if I press any click´n´buy button to never let anything bad happen. When I was a lot younger I paid a lot to deceit. And now everyone is suspicous and I´m checking twice. Paypal will never have my data...(not part of the deceit. It was analog but still never will I use Paypal).

To give a tip in your jar, it really is not a good method... for me.

If there is another way, I would be happy to donate, because I rellay had a lot of fun with your mod(s). I´m having much less fun with games I paid a lot more.

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

In practice (looking at the numbers I quoted above), people rarely pay unless you force them. Which is a pity, because that's what makes people invent things like paywalled mods. And I think we all agree that this is undesirable.

Modding should be a give and take. If I can do anything to help, I will. Even if it is order pizza, drive and grab it to keep you coding hmmm.... drive or sail? Thinking of your location without looking in the profile. Native speaker is obvious... hm... I think I have to sail to provide pizza

I know, I know... You will roll your eyes. Reaction of a reasonable human.

Sometimes we all have to ask for help. Why not in the modding community? If there are jobs to do, delegate. Maybe only small parts. Even testing of code snippets is possible?  I have no idea.

Of course it is difficult for the most part of people, because I think of them as adult having a fulltime job like you. But the ones able to help AND willing to help can´t be that rare?

3 hours ago, Kimy said:

I don't know, maybe the thought of allowing modders to monetize their work isn't THAT evil?

It sure isn´t. Most of us paid more than 50 bucks ($ or €) to gain Skyrim. The game was fun, even without a mod. Now we have mods providing more fun. If a mod has some minimum quality criteria, why not pay for it? It is still the choice of the user to pay for fun.

 

To be honest and without rating DCL in this way because I love it: To have a paid mod there should be more than some wonky animations. This has to be a mod like Dawngard. It has to implement into the game in a way, that its content will work in any attempt to play. To use some common mods: If there is sex in public, the town has to react in a way making sense in this game and not paying a few gold. If there are armbinders made of leather a bandit should not try to fight you with a sword. If there is a sprigan / slimy monster on your body, stimulating your toon, the townfolk should run for life and not stand and sell the second best armor.

I appreciate your approach, Kimy. My humble opinion, becaue you show us some things doable in Skyrim with the fun aspect in mind. Would I pay for DCL in combination with Skyrim? No! It is not part of the Skyrim idea. Would I buy DCL if it is standalone? With a kinky smile on my lips: Hell, Yeah! Think I would not only talk about modding a game with "stuff" but share Still in combination with Skyrim it seems a little... let´s say ...strange.

You and many other modders inspire me in doing stuff with this game I never imagined I could do. In may opinion it is still not worth to give it to you all (because there are only some bodyslide armors or fixes to mods I use), but still I can "read" the game in a way I never could think of with TESedit, DynDoLod, Ordenador, GIMP, Bodyslide, Nifskope etc. before I visited LL. I made my first steps in using Wings3D... but still more than fixing some gauntlets or boots is not possible.

There could be not more pride in running a game having your own boots, skirts, trousers, gloves, shoes...textures... Yes, modding is fun. And the time I think anything I do is worth sharing with the community and is my "little baby" and not "only" a sliderset, retexture or insecure fix, I would like to give something back.

 

After reading all this: The meaning is overall positive and writing it took a long time. There is not a single bad vibe in my head writing this, but I know I´m not a native speaker and maybe there is a spelling I missused.

If there is: sorry!

 

have a nice evening and thank you for another 1000 hours Skyrim with mods

Rogwar

 

 

 

[Anooon]

Yeah patreon is being super-picky and doesn't let you pay with Paypal unless you have a credit card linked to your Paypal account.

[Kimy]

I guess the problem is Paypal rather. I am using Patreon because I hate Paypal with a passion, but I guess Patreon users aren't safe from Paypal's antics. Meh!

[sigtrinature]

On 13/03/2018 at 5:53 PM, Kimy said:

I don't know, maybe the thought of allowing modders to monetize their work isn't THAT evil?

In don't think so either. Getting compensation for completed projects and troubleshooting isn't something I would call absurd.

However I think a huge part of the problem comes from the lack of (objective) way to measure how much a project is worth withing its modding scene.

I'm afraid that due to this, many modders expect to see much better returns, since the only thing they can really do is compare themselves to successful campaigns. And down that path you'll find scams (monthly payments w/o updates for >2years; disappearing devs), extortion schemes (modder X will leave/punish the community unless Y is done) and simple financial failure.

 

But tbh. I don't have much of a clue on that subject, just my 2cents.

[GreatCroco]

On 13.3.2018 at 5:53 PM, Kimy said:

I don't know, maybe the thought of allowing modders to monetize their work isn't THAT evil?

No it's not evil. Everyone who thinks that way is a spoiled brat. It's the same with Lootboxes. No, they're also not evil. Yes the base game often has less content, but you're also paying less in most cases. It also allows the users to buy the stuff they want to, while at the same time giving companies a more steady revenue (a reason why GW1 stopped making addons and added a Cash-Sop was exactly that reason. They needed a more steady income of funds).

 

It's the way people realize this train of thought and how they communicate their intentions. After all, the most expensive game is a free one. I absolutely don't have any problem with people putting a

mod or parts of it behind a paywall, as long as they are honest about it and clearly state: The free stuff you're getting is not everything, if you want the rest you've to pay for it. Demos back in the day were exactly that thing. A shrunk down version of the real product.

 

The only big no go is (in MP games at least) buyable advantages for players (I'm looking at you SW:BF II). Cosmetics (e.g. Overwatch) are absolutely fine, I don't loose anything if I don't buy it, but I also don't gain an unfair advantage.

 

19 hours ago, sigtrinature said:

However I think a huge part of the problem comes from the lack of (objective) way to measure how much a project is worth withing its modding scene.

How do you measure the value of any product? Yes, it's kind of a stupid question, yet a valid one. If you bought a Diesel in 2015 before the VW affair became public does your car still hold the same value half a year later? I guess not.

In the end you never have any objective way to measure the worth of a mod, and you have to take a leap of faith in many cases. But with time comes experience. Would I trust a completely new person on Nexusmods with 20 Bucks for a half assed page with a handful of screenshots? Probably not. Would I trust Chesko with 20 Bucks so he can finally finish last Seed? Most likely yes.

Open Source is great for small personal projects (i.e. DD) or big ones with a big follower base (i.e. NetCore, Git and Linux) that don't need to protect a corporations (and by proxy workers) interest, or god forbid, national security. All other are better of with closed source and a paid model.

 

And yes, I'm aware of the irony that despite all this, my avatar is Lenin-Cat.

 

 

 

But enough off topic:

@Kimy I know you don't like deadlines, so I'm not going to ask you for one. But a) how is the work on a new version of DCL going? b) Any plans for new quests, or reworked old ones to use the new items from DD4. Currently many quest lines use very similar equipment (looking at you Damsel, Follower and Cursed Collar quests), and a bit more variety would be great.