Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[Kimy]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Recently, I found a way to replace all the text in mods really easily (there's a utility for doing it, that is just awesome).

 

For some mad reason, I used it on DCL to test-drive it, and have replaced most of the text (with the exception of a bunch of item descriptions, because there are a LOT).

 

It wasn't a big change, I just wanted to fix various typos or dubious grammar, or pep it up a little here or there. But it was weird how much difference even subtle changes made. It was like a completely new mod and a very different atmosphere. Anyone can use this translator program, it's very easy. You can re-text pretty much any part of any mod. I thoroughly recommend it!

 

The typos aside (*blushes* I know there are a number of them in there...I might have written some text over a glass of red wine or two!), what sort of flavor changes did you make to the text? I am curious, because the current release is still the newest ESP (I am working on DD 4.1 atm), so I could even merge yours into the official branch without losing any work.

 

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

 

Anyway, as part of this process, I went through all the dialog for Ustolf's Party, Queen Sarah, and Arrears (as you would), and it made me appreciate how good those quests are, and how from a BDSM story genre perspective they really work. The original dialogue is solid stuff, that does exactly what it should, even if I did still want to make it better (for me anyway).

 

Just reading her lines, Sasha is awesome too, and also in practice she's certainly one of the better followers  - I really want to see more tracking of her willpower vs your willpower and a more concrete struggle back and forth for power - there's so much scope there to open up new dialogs and new actions. Normally, I hate followers, but for Sasha, I can make an exception.

 

Forget Submissive Lola, Sasha already makes that pretty much obsolete.

 

 

Apart from new quests, Leon, Leah and Sasha are areas I think DCL has most scope to evolve. Leon and Leah stack up OK compare to the state of Maria Eden, or SD back when they were the cutting edge, but Slaverun has blown that stuff away since then, and ME and SD+ have not kept up at all.

 

Sasha fixed a lot that was wrong with Leon and Leah, but the idea of them is still great, and it would be fantastic to see them modernized.

Thanks for the praise! I absolutely love story-telling, so I had a lot of fun creating these quests, and I am glad that you liked playing them!

 

Improving Sasha is -definitely- on my agenda. You are correct - she's basically an improved version of Leon/Leah. I wasn't completely happy with how they turned out, but didn't want to dissect and rebuild them from scratch, either. Still, if you have ideas how to make them better that incur a reasonable workload, I am listening!

[WaxenFigure]

It could be as simple as adding a recommendation that Frostfall users also install a Carriage mod that adds a carriage to Dawnstar, just not the POS mod that replaces all the carriage drivers with their own exact copy but therefore breaks every other mod (including DCL) that expects those carriage drivers.

[worik]

7 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Save yourself a lot of bother and take it out

No way!

Playing under survival conditions is my standard... being forced into something devious is the intriguing exception on top that is currently not fit for a FF play style .. so it requires either my manual step or the game ends in the next minute in a little white-blue-ish iceblock.

That's why i'd like to see someday an immersive solution.

[Clea Strange]

I don't use frostfall but I could see it as an additional challenge to use with Cursed Loot and challenges are good and the more difficult the challenge 

[naaitsab]

5 hours ago, Kimy said:

Still, if you have ideas how to make them better that incur a reasonable workload, I am listening!

Story wise or added/changed functionality?

[Kimy]

6 minutes ago, naaitsab said:

Story wise or added/changed functionality?

Both, but keep in mind that making stories tends to me more labor-intensive than mechanics.

[Loki15kun]

As someone that does not use frostfall because I dislike its core mechanics.

I'd rather not have things added to Dawnstar and areas around it just for it.

I also hope it isn't added as a master, since it's one less mod in our load orders, just  to accommodate it.

 

People do have options to build campfires manually with chesko other mods. Also there are mods on nexus that add camps to the world in order to help with frostfire cold.

If something as frostfall support does get added I'd rather have it as an optional plugin. Just for people that want to use it.

 

But I do like the idea for DCL perks using the campfire mod.

[Lupine00]

21 hours ago, Kimy said:

That, and I thought I made the guy vanish while the quest is active. I will check it out!

Unless it was done recently, he seems to appear quite reliably. For me. Perhaps some mod ends up putting him back, but the only thing I could think of is SD+ again.

 

13 hours ago, Loki15kun said:

I'd rather not have things added to Dawnstar and areas around it just for it.

It would be better in many ways as a patch for DCL, but there are a lot of downsides with patches too, and a strong tendency for people to install patches that don't match the master mod. I wouldn't want DCL to depend on Frostfall either - though it's easy enough to install it and never enable it.

 

21 hours ago, Kimy said:

The typos aside (*blushes* I know there are a number of them in there...I might have written some text over a glass of red wine or two!), what sort of flavor changes did you make to the text? I am curious, because the current release is still the newest ESP (I am working on DD 4.1 atm), so I could even merge yours into the official branch without losing any work.

This is the program: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/921/ This is similar https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/29148 but I haven't tried it.

 

Because of the way it just matches source string to replace string, you can apply the "translation" to any version of DCL. It would work with 6.1 or 6.3, or a future version - just wouldn't replace strings that were different from the version I wrote against.

 

At its heart the program it's just doing search and replace, but in an ESP or PEX aware way. For language translation, it can leverage translation databases and automatic translation, but you don't need to touch any of that if you're just using it to customise English; you just use exact match whole string.

 

It has a minor deficiency though, it's really designed to be used as an end-user tool, to fix up a mod you don't "own". For this reason, when modifying text in scripts, it acts on the compiled scripts instead of sources. I did consider the idea of making a little .Net or Ruby app to read its save files and apply the changes to a source file instead of a compiled file. Actually trivial, as it has an XML save format that is extremely usable. It's a pity it doesn't have that feature built-in, as it can show you the script sources and let you flip between the genuine source and a decompile of the PEX.

 

I think it's so quick and easy to use, if I had a mod to edit, I'd do my dialog revisions using it, rather than the CK. I was able to go over all of DCL bar the items in just a few hours.

 

As for what I did to DCL...

My main intent was to test out the translator program on a mod big enough to be a real test, and that I knew intimately.

I wanted to see if DCL broke somehow after having its dialog edited by this program, particularly the PEX modifications.

It seems fine.

 

I didn't feel that DCL was particularly in need of fixing.

If there's an area that bothers me, it's the item descriptions, which show some signs of fatigue in their authoring... And easy to see why, as there are many. And ironically, I didn't change most of those, because it was a daunting task ... perhaps another day ... though I did change the quest items.

 

I wouldn't show it without more tidying and checking, as I smashed through it in a mad rush, and there are undoubtedly parts I would revise, and testing it, I saw some topic strings that could or should be made shorter, but ... there are still many edits, well over a thousand, I think.

 

There's more dialog in DCL that it seems, not even counting the item descriptions, of which there are nearly 1500, most quite lengthy.

 

I changed very little in most cases. That is why I was surprised at the extent of the different "feel" from those modest alterations. I surmise it's because playing the mod for a long time, you get so used to certain dialogues, that when they change, it stands out, and you see it fresh.

 

I'll try and explain the sort of changes with a few examples.

 

 

In solicitation: 

"No need to be nice to me. Do with me whatever you want!" => "No need to be gentle. Use me however you want!"   It's not better in any particular way, it's just different. In this case, I just wanted it to sound a little more natural.   In the party lead-up: "I am told you're selling the dresses needed for Ustolf's party?" => "Are you selling the special outfits for Ustolf's party?"   It's a bit more direct and naturalistic, without the high-fantasy tone. Is it better? It's just different.   Similarly, with the captured princess: "I happen to have the key for it. I just can't reach the locks." => "I have the key for it, but I can't reach the locks."   I think the overall effect of winding the fantasy style back a little is that it feels slightly more immersive and immediate. But I certainly wouldn't say it's fixed a problem.     Here, from the party, a minor grammar fix: "I am now wearing everything Tanya does. Can I have Kayleigh's key now?" => "I'm wearing the same things as Tanya. Can I have Kayleigh's key now, please?"     Or here, I went for extra cheese, even though it was clunky: "I could do with your large, hard cock deep in my pussy. Interested?" => "I need your big, hard, manly cock deep in my pussy. Interested?"   Some small typos were fixed: (though maybe it wasn't even a typo) "As agreed. Here it is your gold." => "Here's your gold, as agreed."   Most typos I came across were very minor: (I can't promise I didn't introduce as many as I fixed) "This is a fragment of King Eldrik's diary. If you find all pieces and bring them to Juilus, he might be able to make sense of them." => "This is a fragment of King Eldrik's diary. It looks like there might be more pieces. If you can find them all, and take them to Julius, he might be able to make sense of them."   Some things were changed a bit more than others: "I am hungry and thirsty, but I can't eat with my hands tied. Please help me!" = "Please help me! I need to eat and drink, but I can't reach my mouth." "I case you wonder, I am not one of these "look, don't touch" types." => "Feel free to handle the merchandise." (I imagine some people are attached to the original of this).   I changed the books quite a lot more, as I had more scope to muck about there:   "I used to be a noblewoman of some standing, and the sole heiress of my family, destined to inherit our lands and titles. I lived in opulent luxury. I had status, servants, money, and influence. I was also gifted with rare beauty. The common folk idolised me, and men desired me. I had everything. But I lost it all, on the day my family was destroyed by a rival house. When their hordes took our castle and plundered our estate, everyone was killed but me. Everyone I loved, and everything I possessed was taken on that day. I should have killed myself, as my father ordered, but I hesitated. I wish I had not, or that the raiders had killed me too, but instead they took me prisoner, bound and stuffed into a stinking sack, just another piece of loot. I was sold to slavers and hauled to a far away land. I am no longer a princess. I am a thing. The property of men.  Instead of jewelry, I wear chains. Instead of adoration, I receive only cruelty and the cut of the whip. I am kept gagged and bound, except for short breaks, few and far between, when they allow me to wash and eat. I am already used to it, and perhaps one day I will have forgotten there was any other way to exist. This is my life now. Another asset, stored in a small cell, in an underground hideout, I have already been sold to the highest bidder. Apparently, I will be sent on my way to my buyer tomorrow, and when I arrive, I will begin my new life as a sex slave."   Original, or revision, can you tell?   Or a one paragraph from another (trying not to spoiler):   "But since it is likely only a matter of time before you find my little refuge here, I have removed the key for your belt, magically split it into five pieces, and hidden each one in a different place. You would need to find all five pieces to reassemble the key. It's better if you simply accept that you are not going to escape that protective jewellery anytime soon, and stop thinking about the area between your legs all the time."     One thing I did, as I was editing only for myself, is to remove various text in square brackets that I felt was unnecessary, and diminished immersion - for me it was entirely redundant - but for new players it might be very useful.   "[Solicitation] Do you like what you see?" => "Do you like what you see?"   I didn't remove them for any gag dialog however.   Also moved all square bracket text to the start of the line, for all dialogs, for consistency: "Ok, why not? But only light bondage, please! [Small Reward]" => "[Small reward] OK, sure, as long as it's only light bondage."     I think the main thing is that anyone can edit how they please, and modify their local DCL (or some other mod, such as CD, or SD+) and have it how they like it. It's like modding, but without any of the effort!     If there was anything I'd really like to change about DCL dialog, it's simply to add a couple of alternate versions of the misogyny and "smoking hot" trees, as they start to feel quite ritualised after a while. I'd have to use the CK for that.

[Krynn]

Hello, I had a little break.
Where can I find the meshes and textures of the straitjacket?
Also under Caliente Tools, I see nothing.
Installed is as far as I can see the new version.

 

Edit: I have straitjacket_ebonite_go and straitjacket_leather_go under the meshes, but no texture.
I do not find it under Body Slide..

[Lupine00]

Speaking of Leon and Leah, or as I'll refer to them together dominant follower (DF).

 

I think there are two areas to look at:

 

(1) do they function well as followers?

 

In my experience, they aren't strong enough, particularly when the PC may well be severely impaired by bondage.

One especial thing, is they need to be smarter about dragons, and not get knocked down in the first five seconds so often.

Dragons often attack in guarded areas, where the PC is always in heavy bondage, so they are a little different to other mobs in that respect.

 

But what's required, is a clear vision of how the player is expected to use them.

 

With Sasha, we understand that the player is not supposed to be impaired, or significantly impaired, in most cases where she is supporting.

For this reason, Sasha doesn't need to be very strong, and she is never expected to tank, she just adds DPS.

 

The other DFs are not so clearly positioned. The player is often heavily bound. If the DF removes the armbinder, they may leave other restraints, and getting them off is a dialog struggle, if possible at all. Also, given the situation, the player may well be short of gear and consumables. With the set up like this, the DFs need to be able to tank a dragon, or a pair of trolls. But perhaps that was never the intended set up? I don't know, but clarity of vision is required before they can be balanced.

 

 

(2) do they function as slave masters?

 

In this respect, they are self-evidently a bit dull. Even SD+ has the mystery of "what randomly unachievable task will I be set", and "how broken will my master's AI package be today"?

 

They are fun for about fifteen minutes, while you play out the dialogue options the first few times. Once you've danced, sexed, begged and been whipped a few times, the novelty is over.

 

After that, there are several real-time hours of rinse and repeat, just to earn enough affection points to be allowed to get the armbinder off, or be allowed to go out and about. There isn't even any peril.

 

(And once you get out, the DF will probably be ganked by mobs and you'll both end up in the SS auction house, and though they don't get sold, you do, with catastrophic consequences for your relationship with them.

 

Assuming you don't end up discovering how well combat defeat works, there really isn't any change. There's no progression, no surprises, no new content unlocked, just a slow, methodical grind to a predictable outcome.

 

The two available quests they offer have problems too.

If you take the long distance delivery, you can simply ask the DF to come with you! Surely, this defeats the point of the task?

If you don't get the DF to help you, chances are you're dead on the road, even without Frostfall - a troll, or multiple trolls, or spiders, will do for you because there is no escaping the DF bindings - you can run and hope, and like LBA, a lot of times that ends in being worn down by a chain of wolf attacks that ramp up into something that can do damage, and it's over.

And if that doesn't happen, I lack confidence that meeting sex and whipping begging requirements will be met while the PC is off to Dawnstar or wherever (let's pretend Frostfall isn't installed).

 

So, those flaws are also big clues to areas where things could improve. (Weeks, or months ago) I wrote a huge rambling post on things they could do at home, and quests they could offer. But the short story is "add short, simple achievable tasks to be performed under handicap."

 

I don't think I have much new to say on that, or any ideas that aren't similar at their core to existing mechanics in other mods. I mentioned things as diverse as dungeon punishments, family dinners, cleaning the house, Leah's alcohol problem, plenty of idea germs, and plenty of specifics.

 

It all amounts to work for the author, so in the end if you're Kimy, you have to pick the changes that are fun for you to make, and that result in a mod you like to take credit for. I can only say what I'd like to see, and I don't have to make it  happen, so I could wish for anything.

 

 

Whether it's more chores you can do around the dwelling, new ways to earn the DF's affection, that involve more complicated non-combat tasks - cooking, alchemy, smithing, enchanting, laundry, or sweeping dust piles. CD has this, but it overstretches it, instead of making quick fun tasks, that are spice in a larger enchilada, it makes them into a relentless grind, a burrito that is all rice. I think some of that will improve in future CD, but that's waaay off topic. But CD has strong hooks to drag you through that grind, and the DFs don't have that either.

 

 

The hook for getting the player to stick at the DFs has to be content: a quest, or quests that the player wants access to. Nothing else is a strong enough reward. There is no item that is as much fun as new content, especially new kinky content. 

 

 

Something I didn't address in the old posts, is randomness. Simple random stuff, and progressive unlocking of some content, even very basic content, such as dialogs that lead to different sex acts, locations, or a different outfit, can seem huge to the player when they are earned and they have no idea what prize (or peril) might be next.

 

Why do you have to be in strict bondage all the time? You lack opportunity to break the rules.

 

There needs to be more incentive to be naughty (not to fail, but to take chances), and maybe even more rules than there are now. Maybe, some rules should be dumb? (Player could turn them off anyway). For example, on random days, the DF says you aren't allowed to talk, at all. Then punishes you for begging to be fucked, or even begging to be punished! Or for talking to a shopkeeper to do shopping, or asking to eat or sleep. But the punishment doesn't impact daily score, or if it does, you can recover somehow. 

 

What if there were dialogues, or quests, that put you in different outfits? Lots of new clothes in DD4 now, so you could use those. Sometimes the outfit could just be a college dress, or something non-restrictive, but maybe with a pair of cuffs (and the belt and plugs). Maybe the DF wants you to accompany them to some location in Whiterun, then makes you get drunk. It's just a trip where you dress up. There's no real danger, but the player won't know what is going on until it's over. Then the next time, you kick it up a notch, add a surprise, or a task, or something random.

 

Submissive Lola is built on randomness, and it offers an obvious example of how random demands can be added to a master character. I'm not saying I want peeing in DCL, but the fetch quests were done without the benefit of DD, and there's plenty of scope to improve on that - particularly if your code is locationally aware and astute.

 

I wrote a long post about slave training for Slaverun, which touched on some of these topics. A lot was irrelevant to DCL, but the idea of various random fetch quests that are based around safe areas in Whiterun is as applicable to DCL as Slaverun. Keep it short, keep it fun. No more than one a day.

 

So basically, no way to fix them without some new content, but dialogue is also new content, and it's pretty cheap to add.

If you have an outfit system, putting the PC in different outfits, then punishing them if they take them off, is content too.

It's not awesome by itself, but combined with other things, it starts to make it feel like a lot of things are happening around you.

 

 

And having been over the source code, I think there is a complexity in there that isn't pulling its weight. Cut it out, start clean. If you're going to have a daily score that results in a change to overall score at the end of day, make it more explicit to the player. I'm aware the existing reporting system confuses people because you can ask about daily and overall score, and the answers are couched in the same terms. (This is something I was able to improve a little with some dialog changes). I also thing the code logic and formulae for scoring suffer from hard to follow logic that may mean they behave in unexpected or not very useful way. It looks too finely balanced to me, and potentially fragile.

 

For the player, there isn't a feeling you can swing the daily score from bad to good, or recover from a screw up through effort. Without that, daily scoring is just adding complexity. In any case, unless the player is deliberately playing for a bad score, they will only mess up when the mod craps on them. For example, you find a key, and before you can complete the dialog to hand it over, a random key check runs. Unlikely you say? Happened to me multiple times! Otherwise, I was always good because I wanted to move on to the next stage.

 

Scoring should be coarser. The finer grained the points are, the less they mean.

 

Score one point for each task success, one point for each sex, one point for each whipping, one point for having worn an armbinder for some minimum period, and lose one for each task fail and each rule infaction, and add more ways to break the rules - that change randomly day to day. If the player always  has a chance to complete another minor task, they can come back from a fuck up, as long as it's not too late in the day... But maybe they fail the task and make things worse. Oh no! That's the slave life. Keeping that simple track means you set player expectations and let them gauge daily progress beyond simply not failing the day.

 

Also, slaves don't give their master's presents, master's allow slaves to have possesions (and this is more or less how Sasha is written), so avoid any presents for masters type mechanic, those are upside down. It makes sense for a slave to be pimped by a master to a specific customer (Sasha again), but if the slave has to go off and earn independently, it's too much Maria Eden, ownership for profit, not for lust.

 

And maybe the way you finish, isn't simply getting your successful days minus failed days total over 5, 20, 100, whatever the player sets... That might be ONE way to finish, but there might be others. They are hidden, and you have to discover them (or cheat). Maybe if you have enough sex overall, you can be forgiven for fucking up tasks overall? Maybe if you do enough tasks you can be forgiven for not asking to be whipped? In this case, I mean aggregated over multiple days, not for a single day. And maybe hanging out with others too often, and having a rival follower, repeatedly, leads to a "bad end" ?

 

Queen Sarah has this ability to short-cut right. DF needs something similar, but without such an extreme truncation.

 

Finally, add some custom dialog for the siblings, so they don't seem the same. Feels like double the content, when it's all the same code, just different lines locked to their ID, other conditions all alike.

 

Possibilities to consider - the space is huge with these characters. They could be reworked into anything, but the basic premise is solid, and nobody else is doing this kind of slavery right now. CD is closest, and it's a very different thing. SD+ is obviously trying to make anything and anyone into a functional master, which isn't achievable in Skyrim. Slaverun is a story/quest mod with some huge gameplay features, but the slavery is just a device for the story. ME is mostly broken now, and the slavery goes nowhere. Submissive Lola works, but only if you install a bunch of flaky old stuff, and it does tend to stuff up sexlab so you end up ported into the sky over the giant camp.

 

 

What else?

 

Random thoughts:

 

Sasha's sisters... Turns out their husbands have mistreated them, the Dollkeeper hires you to rescue them so she can resell them to better suitors. Finally, you end up with three "Sashas", with different looks. They are jealous of each other! Be careful not to show too much affection to only one. And one of them is more dominant, one more submissive. Beware that dominant one, she might lock you up and never let you go! Well, not without completing Dominant Follower (she morphs into a Leon/Leah AI). Surprise, maybe the dominant isn't the one you thought.

 

 

Bad sibling... Leon and Leah have a sibling they don't talk about (Lilly or Lucifer). He or she is like a regular DF, but much harsher - honestly, the whipping gets monotonous, and who knows what other punishments? Cages, furniture, terrible rations. Just the start of it. Bad sibling kidnaps you to get revenge against Leon/Leah. Your only way out is to get enough affection to earn enough rights so you can make an escape (or maybe there's a quicker way, if you discover the secret?) It's a quest and a DF in one. Also lets you swap which DF is your master/mistress, because you can escape back to either "good" sibling. Use it as a place to put some of the darker stuff people keeping asking for.

 

 

[ObjectiveKraken]

On 17.2.2018 at 8:31 PM, Reesewow said:

Run bodyslide

Can you help me, because I have bodyslide, but I still have the problem. My mods are:

The DLC packs
unofficial legendary patch
sexlab
dd-assets

sexlab aroused
dd-intergation

dd-expansion
ZaZ-AP

DeviousFramework (and support)
SOS(dick mod)

xazPrisonOverhaul

SkyUI
FNIS (i run in every time)
XPMSE
SOSRacemenu
Racemenu

RacemenuPlugin
High detail map mod
AlternativeStart
DCL
DCL LAL Addon
RaceMenuMorphs.

Anything Wrong/useless you see here?

they are in load order

[corsair2150]

Hello, this is a crosspost from the general support forum. I'm having an issue when installing and activating cursed loot.

 

NMM is saying that the file name or specified path is too long. But I can't find anything that is in excess of 260 characters and the destination path is 51 characters. At this point, I'm stumped on what to do. This is the last mod I want to get working for now.

 

I spent a couple hours rooting out missing dependencies by running the game and slowly building my load order and finding out what caused ctd's.

[LazyBoot]

3 hours ago, Krynn said:

Hello, I had a little break.
Where can I find the meshes and textures of the straitjacket?
Also under Caliente Tools, I see nothing.
Installed is as far as I can see the new version.

 

Edit: I have straitjacket_ebonite_go and straitjacket_leather_go under the meshes, but no texture.
I do not find it under Body Slide..

They should be in the bodyslide set from DDx.

[LazyBoot]

2 minutes ago, corsair2150 said:

Hello, this is a crosspost from the general support forum. I'm having an issue when installing and activating cursed loot.

 

NMM is saying that the file name or specified path is too long. But I can't find anything that is in excess of 260 characters and the destination path is 51 characters. At this point, I'm stumped on what to do. This is the last mod I want to get working for now.

 

I spent a couple hours rooting out missing dependencies by running the game and slowly building my load order and finding out what caused ctd's.

Keep in mind that the "path" includes everything from "c:\" to the filename. So if you have your skyrim in c:\whatever\whateverwhatever\whatever\whateverwhatever\whatever\whateverwhatever\steam\steamapps\common\skyrim, then that is already eating 110 characters. And some of the files in this mod can eat something like 160-ish characters inside the skyrim folder.

[corsair2150]

6 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

Keep in mind that the "path" includes everything from "c:\" to the filename. So if you have your skyrim in c:\whatever\whateverwhatever\whatever\whateverwhatever\whatever\whateverwhatever\steam\steamapps\common\skyrim, then that is already eating 110 characters. And some of the files in this mod can eat something like 160-ish characters inside the skyrim folder.

I store Steam on a second hard drive, the path would be: B:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim\Data\Deviously Cursed Loot

 

The downloaded file location is B:\Skyrim F Mods\DCL

[LazyBoot]

4 minutes ago, corsair2150 said:

I store Steam on a second hard drive, the path would be: B:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim\Data\Deviously Cursed Loot

What about your NMM install (or it's storage location), does that have long paths?

[corsair2150]

Just now, LazyBoot said:

What about your NMM install (or it's storage location), does that have long paths?

Also similarly short. (I don't like clicking through folders) B:\Nexus Mod Manager

[LazyBoot]

1 minute ago, corsair2150 said:

Also similarly short. (I don't like clicking through folders) B:\Nexus Mod Manager

In that case, I'm out of ideas.

[naaitsab]

23 hours ago, Kimy said:

Both, but keep in mind that making stories tends to me more labor-intensive than mechanics.

I'll start with the mechanics part.

 

Sasha as a follower, in follower mode is just a follower. Nothing wrong with that but that's not why I keep her along. The fun part is having her as a follower without the entire enforced ruleset of Leon/Leah questline. To differentiate it a bit more I would define Sasha as a dominant-lite setup. The current buildup, beside the keyholder timer is a completely random determined dialogue based system. To give it a bit more debt more timers would be nice. So when you are placed in a belt you get lets say 48 hours or a week. This could depend on a, not super complicated disposition system. You ask for bondage, you get plus points, you don't talk to Sasha you get minus points. You deny her request to wear rubber instead of her forcing it on you would lose disposition. That sort of stuf.

 

I think this could tie into the hardcore mode which If I'm mistaken can only be setup via consoleing a global variable. As I am aware that not everyone wants a dominant follower.

 

 

For the story part, I have a few idea's. The first starts with an alternative to acquiring Sasha. As the alternative is 10k gold it should be a bit hard to get. 

-The dollmaker has heard of a recipe for transparant ebonite. It's rumored to be hidden in Blackreach. 

The recipe could be hidden in a locked chest in one of the abandoned buildings there that requires the user to agree to be locked in a special full ebonite suit (mask, catsuit and boots) that won't allow leaving Blackreach to unlock. The suit will only unlock when the key fragments are found. This could be done by randomizing chests content in Blackreach to get x fragments. 

If you get the recipe the Dollmaker will gift you Sasha as a reward. This could be a nice way to introduce the player to the new transparant DDx things.

 

 

For quests involving Sasha I'm thinking of starting with something in the lines of rescuing one of her sisters from a rogue Dwemer bot that got addicted to ebonite and triggered by it. Of course it's lair is littered with traps and cursed things. Not very detailed but a bit of an idea pitch.

 

The sister could also act as her dominant sister, this could be a segway from my earlier mechanics change, to apply this to the sister only. Split the entire dominant part from Sasha and let the player decide if they want a normal (and submissive) follower or the dominant sister follower.

 

The unused jail in the Dollmakers house could act as a cell for the player if the sister has control over the player. A sort of playerhome but a bit more deviant 

[ThatShadyskiesguy]

Hey, I'm new here but i also have a problem that i can't seem to fix and its installation related.

It seems that when i install the mod, it changes all the dialogue of every male character as well as the dialogue options to:
 

"come here woman!" and the other options 

 

And all the dialogue options are as shown below

Also responding to a dialogue option or leaving the conversation does not continue to a sex scene
 

When I disable the mod, this issue seems to go away (the models t-pose as well but re-running FNIS usually solves that issue)

 

My modlist is down below. 

 

If anyone here can help or at least direct me to another thread in which this issue is addressed, the help will be greatly appreciated.

[A Little Kitten]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Speaking of Leon and Leah, or as I'll refer to them together dominant follower (DF).

 

I think there are two areas to look at:

 

(1) do they function well as followers?

 

In my experience, they aren't strong enough, particularly when the PC may well be severely impaired by bondage.

One especial thing, is they need to be smarter about dragons, and not get knocked down in the first five seconds so often.

Dragons often attack in guarded areas, where the PC is always in heavy bondage, so they are a little different to other mobs in that respect.

 

But what's required, is a clear vision of how the player is expected to use them.

 

With Sasha, we understand that the player is not supposed to be impaired, or significantly impaired, in most cases where she is supporting.

For this reason, Sasha doesn't need to be very strong, and she is never expected to tank, she just adds DPS.

 

The other DFs are not so clearly positioned. The player is often heavily bound. If the DF removes the armbinder, they may leave other restraints, and getting them off is a dialog struggle, if possible at all. Also, given the situation, the player may well be short of gear and consumables. With the set up like this, the DFs need to be able to tank a dragon, or a pair of trolls. But perhaps that was never the intended set up? I don't know, but clarity of vision is required before they can be balanced.

 

 

(2) do they function as slave masters?

 

In this respect, they are self-evidently a bit dull. Even SD+ has the mystery of "what randomly unachievable task will I be set", and "how broken will my master's AI package be today"?

 

They are fun for about fifteen minutes, while you play out the dialogue options the first few times. Once you've danced, sexed, begged and been whipped a few times, the novelty is over.

 

After that, there are several real-time hours of rinse and repeat, just to earn enough affection points to be allowed to get the armbinder off, or be allowed to go out and about. There isn't even any peril.

 

(And once you get out, the DF will probably be ganked by mobs and you'll both end up in the SS auction house, and though they don't get sold, you do, with catastrophic consequences for your relationship with them.

 

Assuming you don't end up discovering how well combat defeat works, there really isn't any change. There's no progression, no surprises, no new content unlocked, just a slow, methodical grind to a predictable outcome.

 

The two available quests they offer have problems too.

If you take the long distance delivery, you can simply ask the DF to come with you! Surely, this defeats the point of the task?

If you don't get the DF to help you, chances are you're dead on the road, even without Frostfall - a troll, or multiple trolls, or spiders, will do for you because there is no escaping the DF bindings - you can run and hope, and like LBA, a lot of times that ends in being worn down by a chain of wolf attacks that ramp up into something that can do damage, and it's over.

And if that doesn't happen, I lack confidence that meeting sex and whipping begging requirements will be met while the PC is off to Dawnstar or wherever (let's pretend Frostfall isn't installed).

 

So, those flaws are also big clues to areas where things could improve. (Weeks, or months ago) I wrote a huge rambling post on things they could do at home, and quests they could offer. But the short story is "add short, simple achievable tasks to be performed under handicap."

 

I don't think I have much new to say on that, or any ideas that aren't similar at their core to existing mechanics in other mods. I mentioned things as diverse as dungeon punishments, family dinners, cleaning the house, Leah's alcohol problem, plenty of idea germs, and plenty of specifics.

 

It all amounts to work for the author, so in the end if you're Kimy, you have to pick the changes that are fun for you to make, and that result in a mod you like to take credit for. I can only say what I'd like to see, and I don't have to make it  happen, so I could wish for anything.

 

 

Whether it's more chores you can do around the dwelling, new ways to earn the DF's affection, that involve more complicated non-combat tasks - cooking, alchemy, smithing, enchanting, laundry, or sweeping dust piles. CD has this, but it overstretches it, instead of making quick fun tasks, that are spice in a larger enchilada, it makes them into a relentless grind, a burrito that is all rice. I think some of that will improve in future CD, but that's waaay off topic. But CD has strong hooks to drag you through that grind, and the DFs don't have that either.

 

 

The hook for getting the player to stick at the DFs has to be content: a quest, or quests that the player wants access to. Nothing else is a strong enough reward. There is no item that is as much fun as new content, especially new kinky content. 

 

 

Something I didn't address in the old posts, is randomness. Simple random stuff, and progressive unlocking of some content, even very basic content, such as dialogs that lead to different sex acts, locations, or a different outfit, can seem huge to the player when they are earned and they have no idea what prize (or peril) might be next.

 

Why do you have to be in strict bondage all the time? You lack opportunity to break the rules.

 

There needs to be more incentive to be naughty (not to fail, but to take chances), and maybe even more rules than there are now. Maybe, some rules should be dumb? (Player could turn them off anyway). For example, on random days, the DF says you aren't allowed to talk, at all. Then punishes you for begging to be fucked, or even begging to be punished! Or for talking to a shopkeeper to do shopping, or asking to eat or sleep. But the punishment doesn't impact daily score, or if it does, you can recover somehow. 

 

What if there were dialogues, or quests, that put you in different outfits? Lots of new clothes in DD4 now, so you could use those. Sometimes the outfit could just be a college dress, or something non-restrictive, but maybe with a pair of cuffs (and the belt and plugs). Maybe the DF wants you to accompany them to some location in Whiterun, then makes you get drunk. It's just a trip where you dress up. There's no real danger, but the player won't know what is going on until it's over. Then the next time, you kick it up a notch, add a surprise, or a task, or something random.

 

Submissive Lola is built on randomness, and it offers an obvious example of how random demands can be added to a master character. I'm not saying I want peeing in DCL, but the fetch quests were done without the benefit of DD, and there's plenty of scope to improve on that - particularly if your code is locationally aware and astute.

 

I wrote a long post about slave training for Slaverun, which touched on some of these topics. A lot was irrelevant to DCL, but the idea of various random fetch quests that are based around safe areas in Whiterun is as applicable to DCL as Slaverun. Keep it short, keep it fun. No more than one a day.

 

So basically, no way to fix them without some new content, but dialogue is also new content, and it's pretty cheap to add.

If you have an outfit system, putting the PC in different outfits, then punishing them if they take them off, is content too.

It's not awesome by itself, but combined with other things, it starts to make it feel like a lot of things are happening around you.

 

 

And having been over the source code, I think there is a complexity in there that isn't pulling its weight. Cut it out, start clean. If you're going to have a daily score that results in a change to overall score at the end of day, make it more explicit to the player. I'm aware the existing reporting system confuses people because you can ask about daily and overall score, and the answers are couched in the same terms. (This is something I was able to improve a little with some dialog changes). I also thing the code logic and formulae for scoring suffer from hard to follow logic that may mean they behave in unexpected or not very useful way. It looks too finely balanced to me, and potentially fragile.

 

For the player, there isn't a feeling you can swing the daily score from bad to good, or recover from a screw up through effort. Without that, daily scoring is just adding complexity. In any case, unless the player is deliberately playing for a bad score, they will only mess up when the mod craps on them. For example, you find a key, and before you can complete the dialog to hand it over, a random key check runs. Unlikely you say? Happened to me multiple times! Otherwise, I was always good because I wanted to move on to the next stage.

 

Scoring should be coarser. The finer grained the points are, the less they mean.

 

Score one point for each task success, one point for each sex, one point for each whipping, one point for having worn an armbinder for some minimum period, and lose one for each task fail and each rule infaction, and add more ways to break the rules - that change randomly day to day. If the player always  has a chance to complete another minor task, they can come back from a fuck up, as long as it's not too late in the day... But maybe they fail the task and make things worse. Oh no! That's the slave life. Keeping that simple track means you set player expectations and let them gauge daily progress beyond simply not failing the day.

 

Also, slaves don't give their master's presents, master's allow slaves to have possesions (and this is more or less how Sasha is written), so avoid any presents for masters type mechanic, those are upside down. It makes sense for a slave to be pimped by a master to a specific customer (Sasha again), but if the slave has to go off and earn independently, it's too much Maria Eden, ownership for profit, not for lust.

 

And maybe the way you finish, isn't simply getting your successful days minus failed days total over 5, 20, 100, whatever the player sets... That might be ONE way to finish, but there might be others. They are hidden, and you have to discover them (or cheat). Maybe if you have enough sex overall, you can be forgiven for fucking up tasks overall? Maybe if you do enough tasks you can be forgiven for not asking to be whipped? In this case, I mean aggregated over multiple days, not for a single day. And maybe hanging out with others too often, and having a rival follower, repeatedly, leads to a "bad end" ?

 

Queen Sarah has this ability to short-cut right. DF needs something similar, but without such an extreme truncation.

 

Finally, add some custom dialog for the siblings, so they don't seem the same. Feels like double the content, when it's all the same code, just different lines locked to their ID, other conditions all alike.

 

Possibilities to consider - the space is huge with these characters. They could be reworked into anything, but the basic premise is solid, and nobody else is doing this kind of slavery right now. CD is closest, and it's a very different thing. SD+ is obviously trying to make anything and anyone into a functional master, which isn't achievable in Skyrim. Slaverun is a story/quest mod with some huge gameplay features, but the slavery is just a device for the story. ME is mostly broken now, and the slavery goes nowhere. Submissive Lola works, but only if you install a bunch of flaky old stuff, and it does tend to stuff up sexlab so you end up ported into the sky over the giant camp.

 

 

What else?

 

Random thoughts:

 

Sasha's sisters... Turns out their husbands have mistreated them, the Dollkeeper hires you to rescue them so she can resell them to better suitors. Finally, you end up with three "Sashas", with different looks. They are jealous of each other! Be careful not to show too much affection to only one. And one of them is more dominant, one more submissive. Beware that dominant one, she might lock you up and never let you go! Well, not without completing Dominant Follower (she morphs into a Leon/Leah AI). Surprise, maybe the dominant isn't the one you thought.

 

 

Bad sibling... Leon and Leah have a sibling they don't talk about (Lilly or Lucifer). He or she is like a regular DF, but much harsher - honestly, the whipping gets monotonous, and who knows what other punishments? Cages, furniture, terrible rations. Just the start of it. Bad sibling kidnaps you to get revenge against Leon/Leah. Your only way out is to get enough affection to earn enough rights so you can make an escape (or maybe there's a quicker way, if you discover the secret?) It's a quest and a DF in one. Also lets you swap which DF is your master/mistress, because you can escape back to either "good" sibling. Use it as a place to put some of the darker stuff people keeping asking for.

 

 

Let "follower" remove cuffs with words "Now oyu might be usefull" or similiar.

Like the idea to be bound exactly for how dangerous the dragw..born is. Might lead to some quests and bindings.

[Clockwinding]

2 hours ago, ThatShadyskiesguy said:

Hey, I'm new here but i also have a problem that i can't seem to fix and its installation related.

It seems that when i install the mod, it changes all the dialogue of every male character as well as the dialogue options to:
 

"come here woman!" and the other options 

 

And all the dialogue options are as shown below

Also responding to a dialogue option or leaving the conversation does not continue to a sex scene
 

When I disable the mod, this issue seems to go away (the models t-pose as well but re-running FNIS usually solves that issue)

 

My modlist is down below. 

 

If anyone here can help or at least direct me to another thread in which this issue is addressed, the help will be greatly appreciated.

That's the "misogyny" toggle in DCL. You can disable it with a tick in the MCM menu of the mod, or fine une it so it doesn't ALWAYS proc.

[ThatShadyskiesguy]

2 hours ago, Clockwinding said:

That's the "misogyny" toggle in DCL. You can disable it with a tick in the MCM menu of the mod, or fine une it so it doesn't ALWAYS proc.

for me the MCM menu doesnt pop up, i tried refreshing the menu with ski_configmanagerinterface 1 and that also didnt work

 

is there a way for me to disable misogyny from the console?

[Krynn]

16 hours ago, LazyBoot said:

They should be in the bodyslide set from DDx.

thanks, that was very helpful.

[Lupine00]

Simple linear disposition systems, tend to result in uninteresting outcomes.

 

When you can only move along that disposition line, either the motion is slow and difficult, in which case you tend to end up seeing very little variation, or it jumps  about, and looks like a random value.

 

For any given player, there is some point of "optimal fun" on that line, and they will usually seek it out and settle themselves there. If movement on the axis is too slow, the player is frustrated they can't get to that optimal point. I'm not saying the point is the same for everyone, but it's a single axis, so there is only one value that is optimal for any person, and the "search" for it is very simplistic.

 

Movement in more dimensions, perks things up a bit, but there is still an issue over rate of change. Too slow, the player is bored and frustrated, too quick, and the value is meaningless and the player is still bored. Tuning rates like that is a classic case of micro-optimisation, and it's impossible to please everyone.

 

It's like balancing two factions for PvP in an MMOG. No matter what you do, some players will complain the other side has the advantage. You can never set the rate of change to a perfect value, for some it will always be too fast, for others, too slow.

 

If you have a rock-scissors-paper setup, then the basic position is more meaningful, because there's no optimal point, the rate of change less relevant, and being in motion is interesting for the player.

 

And in real life, (though I hate to be simulationist) people don't simply like or dislike people, they like or dislike things about them, and there is a history of acts they love or hate, or feel nothing much about.  You never come to like someone you hated through a very gradual process of repeated small actions on their part. Once you hate someone, only a big action can change your mind. 

 

An example, CD uses submissiveness to gate access to quests, too submissive you can't do this one, not submissive enough, you can't do that one. It makes sense on the surface, but it encourages the player to manipulate the stat to get at the quests they want, and they will have to grind it up, and grind it down. The stat starts to dictate their actions, not the other way around. It's not fun, and it's not representing a play style, it's just an obstacle that players will overcome, even if it bores them.

 

From a player perspective, simple reaction follows action is enough. You break the rules, you get a punishment. You break a big rule, you get a big punishment. This is ten times simpler and more interesting than "you break a tiny rule ten times and it adds up to the same thing as a medium rule twice".

 

So, if you want to answer a question like "is Sasha disposed to remove my collar", you ask that simple question directly, rather than having to pay off some invisible debt by grinding, it's a matter simply of "why would Sasha agree?" Does she keep a tally of everything you ever did? She could? But that isn't necessary, and it isn't more fun or interesting than simply checking whether you meet a condition that Sasha can set after you ask her to remove the collar.

 

For example, "Sure, my little rubber pet, I'll let you have your freedom IF you <complete quest X>" OR

"Of course, you're such a cute slave, I'll remove your collar, but first you must promise to <obey a new restriction even when uncollared>"

Where X could be as trivial as giving her an awesome orgasm, or finding her a flawless ruby, but might result in you agreeing you new and further rules.

And you might have to meet the condition first, or she might let you promise to meet it. And if you take the latter path, your bound in a promise, and breaking it would have consequences. (Representing this by no means all that tricky, even in Papyrus, though obviously, you have to limit the quest choices due to the dumb dialog system).

I'm not saying X is one of a dozen things, but it might be one of two or three.

 

And thus begins the descent of the slippery slope into deeper bondage and obligation...

 

For example, say you broke the rule, or didn't fulfill the promise, that particular act sets an action for later. If you do multiple things, only the most extreme need ever be tracked, so it's only ever one action.

 

So when you decide it's time to play again, and the very first thing Sasha does, after putting the collar on you, is to add a blindfold, dual shocker plugs, and a locking transparent catsuit, then kicks you out a carriage in Falkreath after telling you to meet her in Riverwood, she can also add "because you broke your promise and <insert your crime>"

 

Action and reaction is interesting. You do things, and there are consequences.

 

Nudging a disposition value up or down takes that idea and adds grind, assigning a single number value to every action you can perform. While that might not be totally dull if each action has more than one number it moves, giving actions mixed consequences, it's complexity that adds little fun, much grind, and unnecessary balancing problems.