Veladarius Posted March 28, 2016 Author Posted March 28, 2016 I read a few pages ago about the Falkreath quest getting stuck. It happened to me today, at the point where the Jarl's helper s supposed to turn around for better access. Of course I blame other mods, like Deviously-yada-loot or something-enslaved, but beyond that, I found a solution: Wait an hour. Yes, fellow prisoners of love, The quest seems to get stuck at several stages after that but waiting one hour fixes it right up. Thank you for your time. Deviously enslaved should detect that the expansion quests are active and do nothing, it shouldn't even be resetting aliases if it detects CD is active. If it was, it would show up in the log though. Unless you were playing CD 4.0 beta, which I need to fix DEC to detect, uninstall if you're testing. I really hope that it isn't ZAP interfering with idles for npc's. lol, i got stuck at this point few hours ago. i could complete the quest only with "player.setstage cdxexpquest01 390" maybe it wasnt 390, but you can try the numbers "sqv cdxexpquest01" will give you. Bit of a breakdown and example of what exactly is happening with ZAP and CD and why. - Most all of the quests in CD that are scene based are set up so the last thing to happen in a scene section is the quest stage is advanced to the next one or the scene ends in a force greet and the player goes into dialogue with whatever actor initiated it. Typically major events happen during the quest stages and not in the scenes themselves wherever I can arrange it in case it does get stuck. - ZAP has added AI elements that take over and try to police when multiple mods are trying to control the same actor and will put them on hold during the animation and will interfere with the end of the scene phase where the script to advance is located. I have confirmed that this happens with the player, scenes work fine w/ ZAP v6.07 but stop w/ v6.10 and is 100% repeatable. This may also extend to npc's as well but I have not tested that as of yet. The hold is keeping scene phases from ending and will keep the scene from ending as the script function to advance is typically in the endinf of the last phase. A good example of this is the Embassy entryway scene, the fare out is in the beginning of the last phase but the setstage command is in the end of it and is why the player is not moved. - Currently I have only 2 ways around this (for the player), 1- is to reset the idle in which case the player goes back to the normal idle then to the bound idle again or 2- change the scenes so the player is set into the idle but not 'kept' there. By keeping there I mean that I have the idle be played across multiple phases so if something happens to knock them out of the idle they will be put back into it, option 2 will not put the player back into the idle until it is told to at a later time. - I have messaged xaz and zaz about the issue but have not heard anything about how to get around it or to temporarily disable it during my scenes. - Since the Falkreath quest does not have the player using bound idles then they are likely doing it with npc's as well which will require restructuring even more scenes. Right now there are a number of scenes and quests that I am seriously considering rewriting to remove as much ZAP dependency as I can.
0John0 Posted March 28, 2016 Posted March 28, 2016 Nice to know! Could someone tell me please where i can find an older ZAP version? I only found a russian version 52 MB. Version 6.17 has ~91 MB
Veladarius Posted March 28, 2016 Author Posted March 28, 2016 Good news, the issue with ZAP has been figured out, bad news it is due to FNIS 5.5 for modders and how it handles animations. ZAP v6.1 is built using FNIS v6.2 but a test with it built using FNIS v5.5 had it working fine. What does this mean? v3.84 will remain broken and need the AI package reset if it stalls. The stall can be caused by ANY actor, player or npc (which explains the Falkreath quest stopping). v4 will require all of its scenes gone through and adjusted (around 560 as I remember) then everything retested. So far it seems limited to idles used in scenes (bound positions and such) as some still work properly. Don't ask about a release date for v4, I have no idea now... Edit: adjusted FNIS version numbers. ZAP will not be going back to the older version of FNIS per what I have been told.
gooberboy9999 Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Is there any chance you can just use the old ZAP (ZAZ?) and ignore it and the dd integration update?
Veladarius Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 Not likely. There are a lot of things going into the next update of Integration though one of the reasons for its update was also ZAP's update. I just wonder how many other mods will be affected by the ZAP update changes. Edit: Anyone using the current version of CD is free to ignore the updates of the other mods, it is your choice.
gooberboy9999 Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Crap. How long does it take to adjust each scene? You said 560, so I can only imagine that even if it takes a couple minutes per scene it's still a lot of work.
Kimy Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Is there any chance you can just use the old ZAP (ZAZ?) and ignore it and the dd integration update? From a developer perspective, that's not a viable option as most people update a mod as soon as there is a new version out (usually for good reasons). If you would make a mod dependent on an OLD version of a mod, it would clash with any mod depending on the NEW version. Which is a horrible thing. In the end, the only reasonable thing to do is making your mod work with the new version. Even it it sucks.
Veladarius Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 Crap. How long does it take to adjust each scene? You said 560, so I can only imagine that even if it takes a couple minutes per scene it's still a lot of work. Not all scenes will need adjusting, it looks like it is just those enforcing an idle at the end are likely the ones that needs adjusting. The thing that will take time is testing and making sure I have changed them correctly, while it won't take as long as the initial testing it will still take time. I was going to list what quests were going to be affected the most but it is easier to say pretty damn near all of them.
WaxenFigure Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Good news, the issue with ZAP has been figured out, bad news it is due to FNIS 5.5 for modders and how it handles animations. ZAP v6.1 is built using FNIS v6.2 but a test with it built using FNIS v5.5 had it working fine. What does this mean? v3.84 will remain broken and need the AI package reset if it stalls. The stall can be caused by ANY actor, player or npc (which explains the Falkreath quest stopping). v4 will require all of its scenes gone through and adjusted (around 560 as I remember) then everything retested. So far it seems limited to idles used in scenes (bound positions and such) as some still work properly. Don't ask about a release date for v4, I have no idea now... Edit: adjusted FNIS version numbers. ZAP will not be going back to the older version of FNIS per what I have been told. Has anyone approached Fore and asked him about what could be causing the problem between the versions and how it could be fixed so it will work with the current version of FNIS?
Veladarius Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 Good news, the issue with ZAP has been figured out, bad news it is due to FNIS 5.5 for modders and how it handles animations. ZAP v6.1 is built using FNIS v6.2 but a test with it built using FNIS v5.5 had it working fine. What does this mean? v3.84 will remain broken and need the AI package reset if it stalls. The stall can be caused by ANY actor, player or npc (which explains the Falkreath quest stopping). v4 will require all of its scenes gone through and adjusted (around 560 as I remember) then everything retested. So far it seems limited to idles used in scenes (bound positions and such) as some still work properly. Don't ask about a release date for v4, I have no idea now... Edit: adjusted FNIS version numbers. ZAP will not be going back to the older version of FNIS per what I have been told. Has anyone approached Fore and asked him about what could be causing the problem between the versions and how it could be fixed so it will work with the current version of FNIS? Not Likely. I have no idea how FNIS works and could not explain it or where it happened since ZAP was on v5.5 and the current version of FNIS is 6.2.
Arcturus7777 Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 This may be why Slaverun animations are stopping working when it adds devious devices and corset. taking off the corset and everything starts going again.
Smithnikov Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Not game breaking, but I've noticed that when I go into Captured Dreams lately that A: The slaves don't show up anymore. B: The jewelry and clothing vendor, while usable, just stand rock still with their arms outstretched as if their animations won't load. C: The Master is always naked. Again, i can still use the store just fine, just wonder if something caused the shop to go all weird like that.
heehatatt Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Not game breaking, but I've noticed that when I go into Captured Dreams lately that A: The slaves don't show up anymore. B: The jewelry and clothing vendor, while usable, just stand rock still with their arms outstretched as if their animations won't load. C: The Master is always naked. Again, i can still use the store just fine, just wonder if something caused the shop to go all weird like that. The "T" pose that you're describing for the vendors is usually caused by you not registering animations with FNIS. No idea about the rest, you probably did something wrong at some point.
Veladarius Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 This may be why Slaverun animations are stopping working when it adds devious devices and corset. taking off the corset and everything starts going again. Items from Devious Devices have nothing to do with it, it is any AI package that has an idle associated with it that is the issue. Slaverun may attach AI packages to the actors when the items are put on them.
Arcturus7777 Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 This may be why Slaverun animations are stopping working when it adds devious devices and corset. taking off the corset and everything starts going again. Items from Devious Devices have nothing to do with it, it is any AI package that has an idle associated with it that is the issue. Slaverun may attach AI packages to the actors when the items are put on them. yes, that mod is installing the devices, and controlling the toon, to play a animation. removing the corset works like reset idle for some reason in that mod. I am not saying your mod is effecting his, I am saying he is having a similar problem. BTW, I love your mod I have used it every time in I come back to skyrim. starting when there were two quests, one where you get robbed delivering something to Riften and the other...maybe finding something in a mine on a dead body.
Veladarius Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 This may be why Slaverun animations are stopping working when it adds devious devices and corset. taking off the corset and everything starts going again. Items from Devious Devices have nothing to do with it, it is any AI package that has an idle associated with it that is the issue. Slaverun may attach AI packages to the actors when the items are put on them. yes, that mod is installing the devices, and controlling the toon, to play a animation. removing the corset works like reset idle for some reason in that mod. I am not saying your mod is effecting his, I am saying he is having a similar problem. BTW, I love your mod I have used it every time in I come back to skyrim. starting when there were two quests, one where you get robbed delivering something to Riften and the other...maybe finding something in a mine on a dead body. The issue is with FNIS, it changed how it handles idles in one of the recent versions and ZAP updated to the latest version on v6.1 so it will affect any AI package using one of their idles that is not forcefully terminated.
Guest Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 I asked (in the appropriate forum) six months ago or so about a faction called "master of Player" which apparently is in devious deviants.esp. That esp has no source, and anyway I never got an answer. ZADDRMMASTERFACTION (?) But suppose a faction could be assigned to make an NPC a master for an afternoon. "addfac 123456 1" to a really hot friend (eg, Ysolda). I do not know if the existing faction "master of Player" has this effect, although a couple days ago after assigning it, Ysolda was heard to remark "my [body] needs servicing, Slut." "yes Miss" Good slut" Mostly Peaches stands around dripping, waitng for the object of desire to notice, while random passersby notice and take advantage. I didn't really want the whole scripted ritual of the slavery thing, (you know, with the food, the gold, all the dancing, and eventual escape), just the attitude Master in Captured dreams has, "What do you want, *slave*?" and the having her way whenever she feels like it.
Veladarius Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 I asked (in the appropriate forum) six months ago or so about a faction called "master of Player" which apparently is in devious deviants.esp. That esp has no source, and anyway I never got an answer. ZADDRMMASTERFACTION (?) But suppose a faction could be assigned to make an NPC a master for an afternoon. "addfac 123456 1" to a really hot friend (eg, Ysolda). I do not know if the existing faction "master of Player" has this effect, although a couple days ago after assigning it, Ysolda was heard to remark "my [body] needs servicing, Slut." "yes Miss" Good slut" Mostly Peaches stands around dripping, waitng for the object of desire to notice, while random passersby notice and take advantage. I didn't really want the whole scripted ritual of the slavery thing, (you know, with the food, the gold, all the dancing, and eventual escape), just the attitude Master in Captured dreams has, "What do you want, *slave*?" and the having her way whenever she feels like it. I believe it is related to the Orc librarian in the College and the quest for him and Zed. Depending on how you answer him it can be triggered so he is added to that faction.
zenetx Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 Has anyone approached Fore and asked him about what could be causing the problem between the versions and how it could be fixed so it will work with the current version of FNIS? Not Likely. I have no idea how FNIS works and could not explain it or where it happened since ZAP was on v5.5 and the current version of FNIS is 6.2. I just asked Fore: zenetx wrote: Dear fore, Please let me give you an insight about a sensitive subject involving various frameworks and their dependencies, being FNIS the very first one. Keep in mind that I'm in the very low ending of the dependency tree, so my explanation may not be the most technically accurate but I will try my best. Furthermore maybe there's nothing you can do, but given your good helpfulness, I think it's worth at least a try. Any advice is very welcome. That's the deal: There is this animation resource pack, "Zaz Animation Pack" to be precise, which was recently updated; old version was built using FNIS v5.5 version and now with the new FNIS v6.2. Up to this point there are no problems, everything works, but a peculiarity occurred; given the way the new FNIS works, the way how to use the animations of this resource pack has also changed. The implications: Since the release of this resource pack's new version, other mods that depended on it began to have problems; every scene using animations of this resource pack now are "getting stuck". The reason for this (I gonna borrow the words of another more experienced modder): "the new zaz animation pack has added AI elements that take over and try to police when multiple mods are trying to control the same actor and will put them on hold during the animation and will interfere with the end of the scene phase where the script to advance is located..The hold is keeping scene phases from ending and will keep the scene from ending as the script function to advance is typically in the endinf of the last phase". The author of this animation resource pack when questioned, with the objective of create some backward compatibility solution, said he couldn't do much because this is what is needed to work with the FNIS new version. So that's the delicacy of the situation: the mod which depends directly on FNIS has no problems, but, on the other hand, mods in the lower end of the dependency tree are now forced to redo all their scenes (in some cases hundreds of them). And modders in this low level of dependency tree have no knowledge of how FNIS works internally or how to mediate the situation. In short; too many people involved, dependency chain too long, no one has any idea how to mediate a solution that involves so many people with so many different technical expertises. Thank you for your attention. Any suggestion is very welcome. His asnwer: "The default switch was with FNIS 5.3, almost exactly 1 year ago, and it was well communicated at that time. But the fix is VERY easy: a simple additional parameter in the FNIS definition of each animation involved. I'm in contact with xaz and the others, and they know what to do." Today(29/03/2016), 08:01 PM.
Veladarius Posted March 29, 2016 Author Posted March 29, 2016 Has anyone approached Fore and asked him about what could be causing the problem between the versions and how it could be fixed so it will work with the current version of FNIS? Not Likely. I have no idea how FNIS works and could not explain it or where it happened since ZAP was on v5.5 and the current version of FNIS is 6.2. I just asked Fore: zenetx wrote: Dear fore, Please let me give you an insight about a sensitive subject involving various frameworks and their dependencies, being FNIS the very first one. Keep in mind that I'm in the very low ending of the dependency tree, so my explanation may not be the most technically accurate but I will try my best. Furthermore maybe there's nothing you can do, but given your good helpfulness, I think it's worth at least a try. Any advice is very welcome. That's the deal: There is this animation resource pack, "Zaz Animation Pack" to be precise, which was recently updated; old version was built using FNIS v5.5 version and now with the new FNIS v6.2. Up to this point there are no problems, everything works, but a peculiarity occurred; given the way the new FNIS works, the way how to use the animations of this resource pack has also changed. The implications: Since the release of this resource pack's new version, other mods that depended on it began to have problems; every scene using animations of this resource pack now are "getting stuck". The reason for this (I gonna borrow the words of another more experienced modder): "the new zaz animation pack has added AI elements that take over and try to police when multiple mods are trying to control the same actor and will put them on hold during the animation and will interfere with the end of the scene phase where the script to advance is located..The hold is keeping scene phases from ending and will keep the scene from ending as the script function to advance is typically in the endinf of the last phase". The author of this animation resource pack when questioned, with the objective of create some backward compatibility solution, said he couldn't do much because this is what is needed to work with the FNIS new version. So that's the delicacy of the situation: the mod which depends directly on FNIS has no problems, but, on the other hand, mods in the lower end of the dependency tree are now forced to redo all their scenes (in some cases hundreds of them). And modders in this low level of dependency tree have no knowledge of how FNIS works internally or how to mediate the situation. In short; too many people involved, dependency chain too long, no one has any idea how to mediate a solution that involves so many people with so many different technical expertises. Thank you for your attention. Any suggestion is very welcome. His asnwer: "The default switch was with FNIS 5.3, almost exactly 1 year ago, and it was well communicated at that time. But the fix is VERY easy: a simple additional parameter in the FNIS definition of each animation involved. I'm in contact with xaz and the others, and they know what to do." Today(29/03/2016), 08:01 PM. A patch has been posted to the ZAP thread and it works (it was what I used to help determine the issue). There will still be some hiccups here and there (same places as before v6.1 came out) but at least everything else will work properly. Thanks to xaz, fore and min for helping me get this sorted out.
jonoho Posted March 29, 2016 Posted March 29, 2016 I got the pony boots, but when I try to put them on, the game says I don't have net immerse override installed, but I have it installed (twice actually, because it is included in racemenu). I tried uninstalling and reinstalling it, but it isn't working. I also changed the load order in nmm, but it won't let me put netimmerse very high In the load order. I don't know what do to.
Veladarius Posted March 30, 2016 Author Posted March 30, 2016 I got the pony boots, but when I try to put them on, the game says I don't have net immerse override installed, but I have it installed (twice actually, because it is included in racemenu). I tried uninstalling and reinstalling it, but it isn't working. I also changed the load order in nmm, but it won't let me put netimmerse very high In the load order. I don't know what do to. I am not sure where I ended up with it from but I have the SKSE plugin in the SKSE plugin folder. I don't use RaceMenu so I can't help you there.
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