nufndash Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 There is a very good chance that this will need a new game, it will need a clean save at a minimum as there will have been about 10 quests removed and replaced. I just want to point out, since there are many who don't know this: There is no such thing as a clean save! Read that again if you must. If I install a mod with a script number > 0 the script info will be written to the save file no matter what you do. Removing the mod however will not remove that info from the save file, it remains there forever. And the usual practice of: Make a save in a remote location Disable mod Make another save Does nothing! No matter how I save the script info remains in the save file. If I overwrite an existing file the game copies the old data and overwrites the things that have changed since the last save => Scripts stay in the save. If I make a "new" save, the old save has to be loaded at some point. This means script info gets loaded too. Since info is loaded it gets written to the new save. The only way to get a "clean" save is... by starting a new game! Can't you delete the scrips of the disabled mod with a scrip cleaner from save and re-load the save, save/exit and reload, and the scrips should not appear again? At least this is what I thought I was doing. After cleaning the save with SaveTool, I cannot find any evidence of the disabled mods scrips after I load the save back up again, but then again maybe Im not looking in the right place. I would hate to have to start a new game every time the mod authors request a clean save. If I have to listen to the Yarl of Whiterun one more time, Im going to have to hang myself.LOL
Slorm Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 There is a very good chance that this will need a new game, it will need a clean save at a minimum as there will have been about 10 quests removed and replaced. I just want to point out, since there are many who don't know this: There is no such thing as a clean save! Read that again if you must. If I install a mod with a script number > 0 the script info will be written to the save file no matter what you do. Removing the mod however will not remove that info from the save file, it remains there forever. And the usual practice of: Make a save in a remote location Disable mod Make another save Does nothing! No matter how I save the script info remains in the save file. If I overwrite an existing file the game copies the old data and overwrites the things that have changed since the last save => Scripts stay in the save. If I make a "new" save, the old save has to be loaded at some point. This means script info gets loaded too. Since info is loaded it gets written to the new save. The only way to get a "clean" save is... by starting a new game! Use a script cleaner to get rid of the remnants (http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52363/?) works well. However, it is true to say there's no such thing as a clean game, as a script cleaner will not work miracles particularly where AI changes have been made. As a general rule of thumb, if you want to get rid of a mod it is better to leave it in place and deactivate it if it has that facility. Removing and then cleaning tends to be a matter of luck, sometimes you'll get away with it sometimes you wont. Usually, removing a mod and replacing it with a later version after cleaning will work, the emphasis is on "usually" though. Process is straightforward, remove the mod, load and save then run script cleaner. Load the cleaned save and save again. Load up the updated mod and in most cases you'll be okay, but do test it. Above all, keep a backup of the save before making any changes.
Lesaronno Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 I think the hardest part of all the testing and little stuff I am doing now is that it interconnects some major quests together so I have to make sure that if I have one set to be used I have to reset it if the player ignores it for whatever reason (like my character has been doing for the last few days, she has done nothing but sit in her room all day). Surely if you do nothing all day, the master would be less than pleased that she is housing a lazy freeloader and punish you for ignoring your duties?
Veladarius Posted March 9, 2016 Author Posted March 9, 2016 Looking at what is changing I will say this now to end things - This will REQUIRE a new game. If you do a clean save I will tell you to start a new game, half the time people ask questions now and I have issues checking on them as that part has either been overhauled or removed. As it is I have had to make new games a number of times due to changes made in the mod. and I have been going one step at a time. Only a few quests will not undergo major changes: Customer Assist 01 Recover a Delivery Confiscation Free Trial Most of these will have the way they are started and made available to run. They will be updated in future versions. If I remember correctly these are the ones that have been removed and rebuilt: Delivery quest- Had 2 quest to control it, both removed. Even the current one I have will be rebuilt before release. Device Removal - Had 2 quests with it (removal and quest for De'Zra) both were removed. Replaced with 1 quest, dialogue only. Punishments MP01 and MP02 - removed and replaced with new punishment system These quests are being rebuilt / overhauled extensively: All the quests concerning the Expansion - Main expansion does nothing but change the shop surroundings - 4 quests that were mandatory are going to be adjusted, some majorly, and none will be required to do. Punishment MP03 - has served as a bridge to becoming a slave to the Master from Alternate Start mods. Only this function will remain but with changes (will not affect other mods that rely on it for the start) Lots of stuff has been added that relies on changes being made to what is left over. A number of things have been made more efficient to reduce game load where I can. I think the hardest part of all the testing and little stuff I am doing now is that it interconnects some major quests together so I have to make sure that if I have one set to be used I have to reset it if the player ignores it for whatever reason (like my character has been doing for the last few days, she has done nothing but sit in her room all day). Surely if you do nothing all day, the master would be less than pleased that she is housing a lazy freeloader and punish you for ignoring your duties? I spend a day in my room then a day being punished. I expect to be moved to a cell in the basement soon and only let out to do my work (which I need to test). I ended up adding a dialogue option to tell the Admin that I was not going to do anything for the rest of the day and anything left unfinished could wait.
heehatatt Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 What if I install the mod on a save that's never had Captured Dreams before? Or still nop?
Veladarius Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 What if I install the mod on a save that's never had Captured Dreams before? Or still nop? If it is a first time install that is fine, updating will require a new game.
Farmthat Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Seems like the end is in sight. It must feel a lot better working on this now that the remaining tasks can be listed neatly. Nothing is worse (for me) than working without seeing the exact path to finishing. Trusting in methodical work to chip away at a complicated and enormous project is not exactly my strength--but it appears to be one of yours.
nufndash Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 I for one will have no problem starting a new game just for this updated version. This was one of my first mods I ever installed(along with all the requirements), and I must say, nothing has really come close to it since. There have been mods here and there with great aspects, but this mod had it all and I am sitting on pins and needles waiting for the update. I remember when I installed this for the first time, I was thinking...holly s@$!T, I can't wait to download more mods, but after 200 or so mods, nothing was able to compare. I wish to thank you in advance for all the work you have put into the mod and now the update...your hard work and time is much appreciated!
Nazzzgul666 Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 I've decided to replay this mod and have a question: What is necessary to get the "assistent a customer" quest? I've never managed to get it, the spoiler at the mainpage says "Disposition 7or less and Master lvl at 13" but i don't get what that means. Right now i'm slightly dominant and relation to Master is good, this time i had a lot of luck with the delivery quests Does Disposition 7 mean the master has to dislike me? What's the level and how can i see it? Is it simply the lvl of the character?
Veladarius Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 I've decided to replay this mod and have a question: What is necessary to get the "assistent a customer" quest? I've never managed to get it, the spoiler at the mainpage says "Disposition 7or less and Master lvl at 13" but i don't get what that means. Right now i'm slightly dominant and relation to Master is good, this time i had a lot of luck with the delivery quests Does Disposition 7 mean the master has to dislike me? What's the level and how can i see it? Is it simply the lvl of the character? Disposition is you dom/sub level. A disposition of 7 or less means slightly submissive, this is how the ranks break down: 20 - 17 Dominant 16 - 13 Slightly Dominant 12 - 9 neither 8 - 5 Slightly Submissive 4 - 1 Submissive The score starts at 10, if you want to see it go into the console and enter: help cdxplayerdisp and it will show you the value.
Nazzzgul666 Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Ah ok! Thank you I always tried to be dominant so i'm able to buy keys, that explains why i never got this quest.
Slorm Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Delivery quest- Had 2 quest to control it, both removed. Even the current one I have will be rebuilt before release. Hope you're keeping those tough bandits, could do with a lot more those throughout the whole game in general, not only for deliveries. Nothing worse than wimpy bandits
Veladarius Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 Delivery quest- Had 2 quest to control it, both removed. Even the current one I have will be rebuilt before release. Hope you're keeping those tough bandits, could do with a lot more those throughout the whole game in general, not only for deliveries. Nothing worse than wimpy bandits My bandits are tough because I didn't set them at specific levels like Bethesda and instead have their level set to 25% higher than yours. Why they didn't do that in the first place I have no idea as it is far easier than making 5 entire sets of bandits.
Slorm Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 My bandits are tough because I didn't set them at specific levels like Bethesda and instead have their level set to 25% higher than yours. Why they didn't do that in the first place I have no idea as it is far easier than making 5 entire sets of bandits. They also badly gimped the "Bandit" bandit. I use a little mod called Tougher Bandits which gets them back to where they should be (it removes the reduced damage and adds L1 HP) which helps a bit, but your method is much better. They could have still had different sets of bandits just with different percentage increases.
fred200 Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 My bandits are tough because I didn't set them at specific levels like Bethesda and instead have their level set to 25% higher than yours. Why they didn't do that in the first place I have no idea as it is far easier than making 5 entire sets of bandits. They also badly gimped the "Bandit" bandit. I use a little mod called Tougher Bandits which gets them back to where they should be (it removes the reduced damage and adds L1 HP) which helps a bit, but your method is much better. They could have still had different sets of bandits just with different percentage increases. If tough bandits are your thing - try "Deadly Wenches" with the "Moar deadly Wenches" plugin (sp). Not to mention which - they look really good.
Veladarius Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 My bandits are tough because I didn't set them at specific levels like Bethesda and instead have their level set to 25% higher than yours. Why they didn't do that in the first place I have no idea as it is far easier than making 5 entire sets of bandits. They also badly gimped the "Bandit" bandit. I use a little mod called Tougher Bandits which gets them back to where they should be (it removes the reduced damage and adds L1 HP) which helps a bit, but your method is much better. They could have still had different sets of bandits just with different percentage increases. They gimped all the enemies, none of them level with the player and they all max out at about level 29. Basically there are 5 sets of bandits/enemies/whatever and what set is used depends on your level. This is why after level 30 the game just gets easier and easier. Why they did this I don't know, it may be something in the game that when it was updated for Skyrim was fucked up and would cause issues if used on a large scale or what. I did not change my bandits leveling but I will be changing their armor and weapons to level with them so they get better stuff later on.
Farmthat Posted March 11, 2016 Posted March 11, 2016 My bandits are tough because I didn't set them at specific levels like Bethesda and instead have their level set to 25% higher than yours. Why they didn't do that in the first place I have no idea as it is far easier than making 5 entire sets of bandits. I think because it's super obvious when opponents scale in difficulty with your level. Oblivion was bad at this--enemies and their loot never felt special in any way. Every fight was just as hard as the last fight--with loot rewards that are slightly better than what you currently have but will fall obsolete quickly. When all "wolves" in the world are suddenly replaced by "dire wolves" it kinda makes you wonder what happened. An extinction event? When you enter a cave and kill all the little goblins and level up, only to come back the next day to find it full of an established tribe of ogres... it removed any sense of progress or growth and the game grew boring. I don't mind it in your mod because there's still a wide variety of enemies to be found across skyrim. One band of scaling bandits isn't noticeable. It might even be reasonable in this context! But when it's a world-wide phenomenon, it feels unreal.
Veladarius Posted March 11, 2016 Author Posted March 11, 2016 My bandits are tough because I didn't set them at specific levels like Bethesda and instead have their level set to 25% higher than yours. Why they didn't do that in the first place I have no idea as it is far easier than making 5 entire sets of bandits. I think because it's super obvious when opponents scale in difficulty with your level. Oblivion was bad at this--enemies and their loot never felt special in any way. Every fight was just as hard as the last fight--with loot rewards that are slightly better than what you currently have but will fall obsolete quickly. When all "wolves" in the world are suddenly replaced by "dire wolves" it kinda makes you wonder what happened. An extinction event? When you enter a cave and kill all the little goblins and level up, only to come back the next day to find it full of an established tribe of ogres... it removed any sense of progress or growth and the game grew boring. I don't mind it in your mod because there's still a wide variety of enemies to be found across skyrim. One band of scaling bandits isn't noticeable. It might even be reasonable in this context! But when it's a world-wide phenomenon, it feels unreal. I would expect a a mix of them, some scale faster while some scale slower so you never know what you get.
TheOzoneHole Posted March 11, 2016 Posted March 11, 2016 To be fair Farmthis, it is kind of logical that after going in and killing off a troop of goblins you might come back and find something entirely new living in the goblins' old home. That said...it really was obvious that Oblivion did level with the player. It is obvious that Skyrim does as well, and one would expect something like what Veladarius said, a mix of lower level and higher level enemies. Weak fodder enemies who try and "soften up" the player for the higher level enemies who are at or above the player's level.
elias098 Posted March 11, 2016 Posted March 11, 2016 During the thalmar embassy quest my character wont get into the rack, the items get equipped and then i just stand there and do nothing
Clockwinding Posted March 11, 2016 Posted March 11, 2016 I'm using the "higher level ennemies" plugin, and it works pretty damn well. Every boss/mini-boss scales at my level, and it also adds new ennemy types that scale higher than vanilla. There's a plugin to make EVERY ennemy scale at your level too. In the end the game difficulty doesn't fall off hard at lvl 35+ and stays challenging at 50. for example, at lvl 43 i'm meeting lvl 20s,30s and 40s bandits (.5x my level, .75x my lvl, and x1 my level) , with any boss/mini boss at my level x1.25.
Veladarius Posted March 11, 2016 Author Posted March 11, 2016 During the thalmar embassy quest my character wont get into the rack, the items get equipped and then i just stand there and do nothing Try enabling your controls and getting in yourself or move a bit, something may be interfering a bit.
elias098 Posted March 12, 2016 Posted March 12, 2016 During the thalmar embassy quest my character wont get into the rack, the items get equipped and then i just stand there and do nothing Try enabling your controls and getting in yourself or move a bit, something may be interfering a bit. If i try to use the rack it zooms out a bit and after a few seconds it zooms back in again. I tried skipping to the next one but it happens with them all.
heehatatt Posted March 12, 2016 Posted March 12, 2016 My bandits are tough because I didn't set them at specific levels like Bethesda and instead have their level set to 25% higher than yours. Why they didn't do that in the first place I have no idea as it is far easier than making 5 entire sets of bandits. They also badly gimped the "Bandit" bandit. I use a little mod called Tougher Bandits which gets them back to where they should be (it removes the reduced damage and adds L1 HP) which helps a bit, but your method is much better. They could have still had different sets of bandits just with different percentage increases. They gimped all the enemies, none of them level with the player and they all max out at about level 29. Basically there are 5 sets of bandits/enemies/whatever and what set is used depends on your level. This is why after level 30 the game just gets easier and easier. Why they did this I don't know, it may be something in the game that when it was updated for Skyrim was fucked up and would cause issues if used on a large scale or what. I did not change my bandits leveling but I will be changing their armor and weapons to level with them so they get better stuff later on. That's why SKYRE's enemy scaling module and OBIS exist ^^
Morferous Posted March 12, 2016 Posted March 12, 2016 That's why SKYRE's enemy scaling module and OBIS exist ^^ If you are up to ranking up the challenge more, then try Revenge of The Enemies 2016, with OBIS and patch for it from Revenge of the Enemies Patches. I topped that by adding Deadly Wenches to my game. Playing with expert difficulty, currently without SkyRe modules (that I may add after the current testing phase is done) is already a challenge. Scaling is naturally still an issue with this combination, but lesser than before. RoTE allows enemies to actually use all the abilities given to them. This makes OBIS bandits and Deadly Wenches opponents painfully lethal, even after level 50 - which is so far the highest character level I have used in my test game. --- Word of warning for those who are now interested. RoTE2016 is much better planned and balanced than it's previous versions. However, it is also designed to make boss level enemies notably more harder. If you are planning of using RoTE in game, then make sure that other mods are not adding overbalanced abilities to boss level undead creatures. They will use them against you. For example, if someone uses Hateful and/or Forgotten Wenches with RoTE2016, the I strongly recommend using MCM to tweak their abilities down quite a lot.
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