Devious Interests

[Hex Bolt]

The trouble with an "I know what I'm doing" feature is that players who think they understand more than they actually do will use it, potentially messing up other things in the game.  A safer approach might be to just display a static text warning on the MCM that the conditions aren't right, rather than attempt to correct another mod's mistakes.

[akssi]

My mother tongue is not ENGLISH
Do I need to translate the MCM menu?

[krzp]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

The trouble with an "I know what I'm doing" feature is that players who think they understand more than they actually do will use it, potentially messing up other things in the game.  A safer approach might be to just display a static text warning on the MCM that the conditions aren't right, rather than attempt to correct another mod's mistakes.

Totally understand that, and I agree in principle - however, in this particular case, this isn't so much as correcting other mods mistakes, but offering more possibilities - like, in some of my mod playthroughs, I didn't even bother with starting the main quest, and most of mods were fine with it.

 

So, if the MQ1000 stage > 1000 requirement was made to ensure the intro cinematic won't break down, this is a bit redundant for someone who isn't intending on playing it anyway. This isn't a deal breaker, obviously, the aforementioned Alternate perspective has a shortcut to place you at the Way of the Voice quest, but still, could be a nice thing to have for someone who wants to roleplay, I dont' know, a guard or a regular adventurer with a kinky side or something ?

[Taki17]

4 hours ago, krzp said:

DIN isn't working until you proceed with the Helgen Unbound quest

The current condition check for the intro quest exists in its current form because ASLAL (the probably most used alternate start mod out there) sets this quest to stage 1000 after you select a start option at the Mara statue and use the bed - thus, it's a pretty foolproof way of detecting that the game has properly started. A substantial number of other mods that add potentially disruptive events, effects or mechanics (like survival mods too) rely on this being true and kicking in once this condition has been met.

 

4 hours ago, krzp said:

I've been using "Alternate perspective" as a game starting mod

I was not familiar with the mod you mention. Based on what I gathered, it makes substantial enough changes to game flow to have it not conform to the conventions set out previously by other mods, and that's the issue here.

 

I'm not about to step on the toes of anyone just on principle, and if there is a reasonable solution to be found, I will implement it. However, I have no intention of explicitly supporting Alternate Perspective and going widely out of my way to accomodate it. Question to everyone then: is there an easily accessible condition in any alternate start mod that signifies that the player is in the working game world and is free to run around and do stuff?

 

2 hours ago, krzp said:

So, if the MQ1000 stage > 1000 requirement was made to ensure the intro cinematic won't break down, this is a bit redundant for someone who isn't intending on playing it anyway.

There is a bit more to it than that. While preventing disruptions during the vanilla game's intro quest is one if the reasons, it's also keeping said distruptions away from the character creator (and mod setup) starter cell as well. It's also integrated into the actor validation regarding the player that many feature use, so I'd like to find a more elegant solution than piling complexity on it.

[Taki17]

3 hours ago, akssi said:

My mother tongue is not ENGLISH
Do I need to translate the MCM menu?

Sorry, but it's not clear what you are asking here.

 

The whole of Devious Interests is in english. There are no up-to-date translations available.

 

If you are creating a translation, you'd need to translate everything, the MCM included,

[krzp]

29 minutes ago, Taki17 said:

I'm not about to step on the toes of anyone just on principle, and if there is a reasonable solution to be found, I will implement it. However, I have no intention of explicitly supporting Alternate Perspective and going widely out of my way to accomodate it.

There's been a number of other relatively popular starter mods that popped up semi-recently, Realm of Lokharn and Unbound Reborn are the ones that I remember off the top of my head, but none of them are as popular as ASLAL, so supporting the most popular solution is probably the best idea.  ?

 

 

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Taki17 said:

is there an easily accessible condition in any alternate start mod that signifies that the player is in the working game world and is free to run around and do stuff?

Skyrim Unbound Reborn, which I use, has MQ101 at stage 1000 even in the character creation editor.  So far, that hasn't caused a problem with any of my mods.  Things do seem to function normally in its starting cell.  For instance, hunger and thirst from iNeed increase over time in that cell.

[donttouchmethere]

6 hours ago, krzp said:

I've been using "Alternate perspective" as a game starting mod for a while, and DIN isn't working until you proceed with the Helgen Unbound quest.

Could also be positive. No DI crazy NPCs until you buried enough keys everywhere and collected enough gold to pay blacksmiths ?

[krzp]

I've found this on the Alternate Perspective page on Compatibility, with regards to the starting condition:

Spoiler

Compatibility
Unlike other Alternate Start mods, Alternate Perspective does not skip the Intro Quest. This is the very essence that makes the mod different to any other but it also creates a new kind of incompatibility with mods that want to know if the Intro Sequence is already completed. There are however easy workarounds to ensure compatibility without any major changes. The following will list a couple conditions which can be used to check if Alternate Perspective is installed and if any "delays" are necessary
None of these will create a dependency on Alternate Perspective and can be safely integrated into any mod which wants to know if the Intro is completed. I also recommend checking the Article "Important Quest Stages" for additional Info on how the Intro Quest behaves while Alternate Perspective is installed
 

1. Checking for the Global Variable "MQQuickstart": In the Vanilla game, this variable's maximum value is 4, with 0 being the default Vanilla Intro start. With Alternate Perspective installed, this value will be 7 on game start, (6 when its own override of the default Vanilla Intro is requested). Thus, an easy way to check if Alternate Perspective is in charge of the intro is to simply compare the value of this variable to be less than 6
2. Refining Queststage-Conditions: When the game starts, the Vanilla Intro will set its own stage to 10 at the very beginning. In Alternate Perspective, this stage will lock at 0 (or 1). Hence it is also possible to simply check for the stage of MQ101 to be between 10 and 1000 (250) instead of only validating if stage 1000 (250) is completed

 

I don't know if that helps, perhaps the mod author @Scrab might be able to tell us more ?

[Taki17]

On 6/10/2023 at 6:23 AM, krzp said:

I've found this on the Alternate Perspective page on Compatibility, with regards to the starting condition:

...

Refining Queststage-Conditions: When the game starts, the Vanilla Intro will set its own stage to 10 at the very beginning. In Alternate Perspective, this stage will lock at 0 (or 1). Hence it is also possible to simply check for the stage of MQ101 to be between 10 and 1000 (250) instead of only validating if stage 1000 (250) is completed 

I may be able to work with this. Events being suspended for stages 10 through 1000 of MQ101 will prevent them from happening during the intro quest, and will allow them at any other stage of it. Now all that remains to be checked is how ASLAL handles said quest while in the starter cell, because I want to keep the events not happening there feature intact and without substantial added complexity to the validator.

[krzp]

Stumbled on what I assume to be a bug or some of my mods not playing nicely with each other - what sort of events make the DIN_Main quest get into the Suspended state?

Noticed it happening twice already during my playthrough, it sadly stays suspended afterwards - I manually had to check it through the sqv command.

A quick check - uncheck of the "Suspend mod events" on the mod configuration page fixes it, and the events come back.

 

Could try to reproduce it, but I'm not sure what causes it.

[Taki17]

9 minutes ago, krzp said:

 what sort of events make the DIN_Main quest get into the Suspended state?

Whenever a "dhlp-suspend" event is sent. That could be either by this mod or some other. It's essentially used as a semaphore of sorts, it gets sent out whenever the execution of the currently running functionality (like a self bondage or free use attempt) should not be interrupted or affected by other mods or features from this mod.

 

"dhlp-suspend" is followed by the "dhlp-resume" event, which would end this critical section, and resume normal operation of the mod.

 

The resume event evidently wasn't sent out, and you have correctly identified the debug option to fix it. If you turn on logging, DIN will print to the log when such events are received by it.

[krzp]

10 hours ago, Taki17 said:

The resume event evidently wasn't sent out, and you have correctly identified the debug option to fix it. If you turn on logging, DIN will print to the log when such events are received by it.

I've searched my currently active mods scripts, and the only things that were sending out or listening to dlhp events were DIN, Prison alternative, and Conditional Expressions - but character didn't go to jail - so PA wasn't active, and the expression system was working all the time, so I'd assume DIN listened to the suspend correctly, but missed the dhlp-resume somewhere.

 

After looking at the DIN_main script, it could be that I have plugin active that unpauses the game when you enter menus, maybe the changed behaviour in UI.IsMenuOpen somehow tripped up the suspend-resume cycle? Noticed a few checks for that that.

 

I'll try playing with the logs on, and see if I'll be able to intentionally catch it. ?

[BYJE137]

Short bug report: I have a playthrough now where the mod was working perfectly up until level 8 or 9, then it seems like it went into suspended mode - all events simply stopped firing, it seems. Using the suspend events button in the MCM as an attempt to fix the problem (turn off, then turn on again) did not work, it seems events are permanently disabled in the current save.

I was made public whore sometime around the point where events stopped working, I think, but finishing the PW quest did not make the events re-appear.

I'll try to find a save where events were still firing and go from there.

[BYJE137]

Update: Suspicious that this particular problem in my save-game is linked to the Trappings of Fate mod. This mod starts out with a courier approaching you when you hit level 9. I loaded a save prior to this event and everything worked, and immediately after talking to the courier events stopped firing, so it's probably linked.

[krzp]

1 hour ago, BYJE137 said:

Update: Suspicious that this particular problem in my save-game is linked to the Trappings of Fate mod. This mod starts out with a courier approaching you when you hit level 9. I loaded a save prior to this event and everything worked, and immediately after talking to the courier events stopped firing, so it's probably linked.

That mod does fire a

; Send a modevent that other mods like Deviously Cursed Loot listen for that disables their functions.
; This is to prevent unwanted interference. Will be re-enabled at quest end.
SendModEvent("dhlp-Suspend")

around the time you get to the inn, not at the courier encounter.

 

However, it's also supposed to send a resume code after you finish all the objectives.

; Send modevent that continues DCL and other mods functionality, if this hasn't already been re-enabled.

SendModEvent("dhlp-Resume")

 

Perhaps something didn't work correctly?

 

I didn't play it with DIN enabled, but I do remember that DCL worked fine afterwards when I did a playthrough... 

 

 

 

[BYJE137]

It looks a bit like the modevent happens earlier than intended/stated, or at least that it did so for me.

I tried testing removing the ToF mod prior to leveling up to level 9 (I'm aware it's a bad idea to remove mods mid-playthrough, this was for testing) and when I did that it was obvious that the problem was linked to this - events fired just fine after leveling up without the mod, and would fail if it was not removed and I had a chat with the courier.

In a way this just means that the blocking function implemented in ToF also works for DIN-related events, which is good but just something to be aware of - I'd consider it more of a mod interaction than an incompatibility problem as such. It was nice to figure out the reason for the missing events earlier anyway.

[Taki17]

4 hours ago, BYJE137 said:

In a way this just means that the blocking function implemented in ToF also works for DIN-related events, which is good but just something to be aware of - I'd consider it more of a mod interaction than an incompatibility problem as such. It was nice to figure out the reason for the missing events earlier anyway.

It's supposed to. The very purpose of these dhlp events is for mods to signal each other to suspend their workings for a bit since the mod sending the suspend event is in a critical section on a shared resource, that resource being usually the player.

 

However as to why the suspended state did not end, I can only guess in lieu of any logs:

• The dhlp-resume event did not get sent out
• DIN suspended state was toggled on, in which case it will ignore dhlp-resume events
• the issue is unrelated to suspend/resume, and you have found and edge case where the periodic update function is stuck in an infinite loop

[kurotatsu]

Small change idea: to use "Days since last orgasm" in checks for various activities like self-bondage etc. If it's lower than set timeout value for the event - skip it and reschedule.

It will help against silly situations like your character just finished escaping massive amount of devices, had plenty of orgasms and as soon as last device is off - immediately rebinds herself!

[crococat]

Hello, Taki. Like this mod, but after installing have bad things with player speed acceleration.

It is so big that i cannot target objects, just running as bullet. This happens on short periods of time, but is very annoying.

Is this feature from your mod or from something else? If it is how to disable it?

 

All mod features seems to work fine to me, exept percentage of gag talking, it work only on 100% and not always.

Waiting for sex player stunning is little boring because of fixed camera. Can it be applied without camera movement disabling?

[Taki17]

On 6/17/2023 at 4:06 PM, kurotatsu said:

use "Days since last orgasm" in checks for various activities like self-bondage etc. If it's lower than set timeout value for the event - skip it and reschedule.

To make sure I understand your idea correctly, let's see an example scenario:

1. Self bondage cooldown timer is set to 6 hours (default).
2. Self bondage will come off cooldown during the next periodic update and has a chance to trigger again.
3. Player last orgasmed 2 hours ago
4. Because of that, since 2 hours is less than 6 hours, the self bondage event will not happen again, even if all other conditions like arousal and the random roll are met

I see some utility for this for people who have set their cooldowns to noticeably shorter values (1-2 hours), since it might help spacing events out a bit. However, it takes a big chunk out of the current heavily arousal-based implementation, where managing arousal is part of the game, alongside not running around with a copious ammount of restraints that might make one regret it. Given the multitude of conditions that need to be met already for most of such features, I don't think I'll add this as something that provides a guaranteed reprive.

 

However, since you have reminded me that this stat exists and is tracked, that made me think about how it can be incorporated. Current arousal is one thing, but time since last orgasm will be able to complement this very nicely that represents how desperately aroused the player really is. Which can be used as a further sliding scale modifier for event chances, that can affect them postiviely or negatively too.

 

Good suggestion, thanks.

[Taki17]

1 hour ago, crococat said:

after installing have bad things with player speed acceleration.

It is so big that i cannot target objects, just running as bullet. This happens on short periods of time, but is very annoying.

Is this feature from your mod or from something else? If it is how to disable it?

Okay, what in the everloving fuck is going on there.

The only feature of my mod that affects the movement speed are the progressive debuffs that the player receives when she is heavily cum inflated. And those reduce movement speed and definitely not increase it.

If you don't have this feature active, or your character is not cum inflated, I doubt my mod affects your character's movement speed in any shape or form.

 

1 hour ago, crococat said:

All mod features seems to work fine to me, exept percentage of gag talking, it work only on 100% and not always.

How do you mean not working? Setting it to 100% means gag speak will always succeed.

 

1 hour ago, crococat said:

Waiting for sex player stunning is little boring because of fixed camera. Can it be applied without camera movement disabling?

The temporary locking of the player's controls is meant as a safeguard to have sex scenes start and execute properly, without having to abort them for things like the player changing zones, getting into dialogues, scenes, combat and so on. The whole process of starting a scene shouldn't last longer than 3 seconds at most.

[WallofRope]

On 5/29/2023 at 3:09 AM, Taki17 said:

Not by this mod at the moment, however one sure way of having dialogue events not happen with NPCs is if you add them to the zadDisableDialogueFaction. Or if there is a specific base game NPC or group of base game NPCs that need not say comments under certain circumstances, tell me so I can add them to the exclusion dialogue.

 

As a follow up question/suggestion to this topic;

 

Would it be possible to add MCM functionality for this in the future? Say, selecting or cursor hovering over an NPC and marking them for exclusion for dialogue/all events? We are having a lot of fun with this mod right now, in our current playthrough however we are trying out some Player slaver options in addition to the forced submission content for some true switch roleplay.

 

Suddenly getting locked in a petsuit in the local tavern with rapidly escalating knock-on effects -- very cool, intended functionality, works well for the role play!

 

The player character's naked slave removing herself from a bondage rack and forcibly equipping a set then returning to cowering -- Hilarious, but definitely seems like an edge case that could be covered!

 

If not adding manual user exclusion functionality, maybe checking for PAH/DoM slave factions would be a good bandaid?

[kurotatsu]

Bugs spotted with chastity belt unlock for sex by NPCs feature:

1. It handles incorrectly chastity harnesses, key removed, harness not unlocked

2. Incorrect handling of quest belts, key gets removed, belt stays, scene hangs with player controls disabled.

 

Suggestions to address and improve this:

1. Add option to disable it completely.

2. Add checks for successful removal of the device and only if the unlock function returns true then remove key and do whatever. Otherwise proceed like there's no key available.

3. Add option to not to re-lock the belt/harness back.

[Taki17]

On 6/19/2023 at 8:03 AM, WallofRope said:

Would it be possible to add MCM functionality for this in the future? Say, selecting or cursor hovering over an NPC and marking them for exclusion for dialogue/all events?

I'll consider it. However the priority will be having base game characters and characters from DD-based mods properly excluded when applicable. Which is why the preferred method of doing so is having mods conform to conventions about using the zadDialogueDisable faction for these characters.

 

On 6/19/2023 at 8:03 AM, WallofRope said:

If not adding manual user exclusion functionality, maybe checking for PAH/DoM slave factions would be a good bandaid?

Including those factions in the current implementation would require either adding those mods as master files to the plugin, or reworking the exclusion feature to use a formlist and adding said mods as optional integrations.

 

I don't use either of those mods and have no interest to do so, though if you or anyone were to create a standalone compatibility patches for them, you are free to do so.